" WAIST DEEP IN THE BIG MUDDY ".....2006

[AllBobsAllTheTime]

Afghanistan is turning out to be this generation's big muddy.

[WLDFLD]

nice star wars effect on the opening text, it really helps give the song that futuristic sci-fi feel it needs

>:|

[edjcox]

Still fighting for nought.... When we going to learn, how many of our good people need to die....

[doughyden]

Just because a song is catchy and clever doesn't mean it doesn't present a cogent, clear, and reasoned argument. It would take a big fool, indeed, not to recognize the arguments presented here. Just because an argument is simple and presented in an easy-to-remember format does not always mean it's wrong. You can employ all the ham-handed sarcasm you want--does that equal cogent reasoning?.

[CommandLineCowboy]

Well I now think we should pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan all because of this catchy song. Heck its a song, can't argue against a catchy song. Wins against cogent detailed analysis every time because lets face it, thats boring.

[coloradobob1]

If Iraq had Ranch Dressing buried under it , we'd never have laid a finger on them.

[defthammer]

@coloradobob1 Well said.

[emzyking]

@coloradobob1

Don't be so sure, we fat ass American's love Ranch almost as much as we love to send our children to war. .

[coloradobob1]

Remember Bush protected us from aerial attack from the Mexican Air Force. And Cheney was under some table in Wyoming.

[crushingvanessa]

I feel bad for just finishing an AMT Gulf tanker model now.

[rhsimard]

Seeger's Wikipedia pt2

"In his autobiography (reissued Nov,

2009) Seeger wrote, 'Today I'll apologize for being blind to Stalin's failings and for not seeing that Stalin was a supremely cruel misleader'. He added that Christians ought also to apologize for the crusades, religious wars, and the Inquisition and 'white people should consider apologizing for stealing land from Native Americans and for enslaving blacks and for putting Japanese Americans in concentration camps - let's look ahead.'"

[bobdylan4evr]

@Observer585 oh how insightful. that doesnt make any fucking sense you moron. what revolution? where?

[rhsimard]

From Seeger's Wikipedia:

"In 1982 Seeger performed at a benefit concert for Poland's Solidarity resistance movement. His biographer David Dunaway considers this the first public manifestation of Seeger's decades-long personal dislike of Soviet Communism. In the late 1980s Seeger also expressed disapproval of violent revolutions, remarking to an interviewer that he was really in favor of incremental change and that 'the most lasting revolutions are those that take place over a period of time.'"

[wolfgangpmay]

Excellent allegory (the expression through symbolic figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human conduct or experience) of our predicament in Afghanistan!!!

[Roonskii]

Happy Birthday!

[jnsii]

What can I say to Pete but exactly, speaking from personal experience.

[P313N1S]

If you need to fight a war to protect yourself or prevent an obvious and preventable genocide, then that's all well and fine, but if you want to go out and shoot some gooks or arabs, then fuck you

[hm4steve]

I am not so much anti-war as I am anti-idiocy.

If you are gonna fight a war, plan right, fight it right and take care of soldiers, sailors, marines and airman who come back crippled, maimed and infirm.

[Observer585]

Seeger thought Stalin was a hero and did not turn against Nazi Germany until they invaded Russia. He also hated Churchill and supported those who advocated a violent overthrow of Democracy in America. You know those cuddly childrens songs he used to sing? He did it for the money and to reinvent his image when the public caught on to his radical beliefs.

[kateslateforever2]

@Observer585 he was a member of the Cummunist party at the age of 17 and then drifted away from the party a few years later. I would like to see where you got all these supposive facts that you just listed. Send me a link. Must be a reliable source.

[Observer585]

I have a lot to say, so this wiill be in installments.

How about using me as a source. I went to a concert of his at Stern Grove in San Francisco in the 70's He figured San Francisco must be friendly to the socialistic cause, so I'll drop a few anti-American bombs. He scathingly remarked about Churchil's saying we should "Strangle the Bolshevik infant in his cradle," and derided Churchill for later saying, when Russia was unwittingly allied with England, "All hail to the Russian heroes."

[Observer585]

He commented between every song, and most comments were cynical condemnations of everything to the right of Lenin. And have you noticed his chin-set when he sings. Human expressions are genetically imprinted, and his head set is the body language assigned to arrogance and "better than you" attitudes. I liked Seeger and the Weavers when I was a kid, but the more I learned about his desire to shape America along Soviet lines, and his admiration of Stalin, the more I began to despise him.

[Observer585]

I like this country,with all its warts and pimples, and I have yet to find a place in the world that offers its citizens, of all colors and creeds, the opportunity to flourish and move freely about. You probably love the socialist crowd in the current administration. Have you noticed how it is closing its tentacles around the freedoms most Americans cherish?

[bobdylan4evr]

@Observer585 obama is not a socialist! if you cant see the fact he's right wing i question what the fuck you've been taught at university

[Observer585]

To BobDylanwhatever, With the drivel that's served out at universities these days, I can agree with your intimation that I learned little of value there. Fortunately I learned much about the world that you are not ready to understand - - if ever. And if you ever do grasp what the real stakes are in the world, you will probably cower in fear for your future. Or if you are a caring person, which I doubt, you will weep for the future of the civilization whose decay you so gleefully applaud.

[bobdylan4evr]

@Observer585 well then if you so much and i knows o little care to enlighten me?

[Observer585]

@bobdylan4evr Sure, when the revolution begins, don't be on the side of the pacifists. P.S., brush up on your grammar.

[bobdylan4evr]

@Observer585 what fucking revolution? i can do the same thing look.. brother change is coming and you better buckle cause this change is gonna have some birth pains. you cant say you have some profound knowledge and just ramble on hypothetical "revolutions'

[Observer585]

I have an advanced degree at Columbia University. When they were trying to shut down the University in the 70's, I went to a meeting of the organizers of the shutdown, maybe 200 students and fellow travelers. There was an open mic, & when I got tired of hearing their vitriolic diatribe, I took my turn at the mic and said that I wouldn't comment on the righteousness of their cause, but that it was undemocratic for 200 people to deprive over 10,000 students of the right to attend classes.

[Observer585]

Guess what? The mic was literally torn from my hands, That is what these peace loving commies will do to all who don't agree with them when they get the chance. Freedom of speech is only for them. That was a seminal moment in my political growth. I hope you get your seminal moment someday.

As for citing sources of information about Seeger, there are many, both reputable and specious. You just have to take the time to look them up.

[Observer585]

There is a treasure trove of information on the internet. Look around with an open mind. Don't cite Limbaugh or Rachel Maddow. Go for the neutral sources. There are so many that I would have to dig around again myself to support what I already have uncovered, and I am not that motivated. I am not writing a paper, so I didn't write down my sources.

[Observer585]

Do your own work, honestly, and you may uncover the same information I did. I'm in my 70's, so I have had a longer time than you to change my opinion about this arrogant and self serving life-long communist who tried to obfuscate his true feelings in later life to mellow his image.

[jm787878]

This great song has been adapted in France in the 70's by Graeme Alwright ... however, the "big fool" was turned to a captain ... less impact then ;-)

[PMishkin]

ah America, a war every generation.

[stablejelly]

Anybody have Seeger on the old Roger Ailes show on, I believe, CNBC? Just seemed cool then Ailes vs Seeger. But it was cordial mostly. Seeger said he is conservative. He sings old songs.

[TimelordR]

From one quagmire to another...when will we ever learn? "Stay The Course"...BULL S***!!!

[ronaldweasleyfan55]

very true

[tubetrekker30]

You got THAT right. Lots of us could see it before this occupation ever started. When will people learn?

[mmm413]

Golly, golly, golly. Genius!

[anthonyali]

Just awesome! Pete Seeger is one of the few special.

[hoppingmadly]

Great song - check out Richard Shindell's version it is fantastic

[canfor5]

Thank you Colorado Bob...need creative imagists like u around. Thanx!

[joeocho88]

WHICH BIG FOOL IN THE WHITE HOUSE???--NIXON,CLINTON,CARTER­...

Korea, Vietnam...

We're waste deep in the Big Sandy and the Big Fools ( military-Industrial-Pharmaceut­ical Complex and Civilian contrators)say to PUSH ON!

Well, let them get out here where the fighting is and shoot a gun, get attacked and see how they run...

[olderwiserdrunker]

"So Many Blood-lakes"--Robinson Jeffers

[blair227]

As a Viet Nam veteran I can identify with this song and with the big fool in the white house today I sympathise with todays soldier.

[wovokanarchy]

@blair227 traitor

[blair227]

@wovokanarchy You have the audacity to call me a traitor old man? I have a Silver star 4 air medals and 2 Dsc's.how many medals do you have?BTW,I have a daughter who was nearly killed in Iraq.How many medals and how many wars did bush and Cheney serve in?Oh yeah,the answer is 0,just like your fucking IQ.Moron bastard.

[wovokanarchy]

@blair227 Bush and Chenye are real heros. They both are successful and have university degrees. The elite are not supposed to fight in wars. It's only the poor such as yourself who ought to fight and die in any war a nation finds itself in. Read Plato and you will understand this.

[blair227]

@wovokanarchy If you call making money through the old boy network and getting sweetheart contracts for their contracts or have friends bail them out like did Dumbya,lying us into a war etc,than I guess they are real success sttories.I earned my million plus by hard work and sweat,plus my conscience is clear cause I didn't cheat or kill to get mine..

[wovokanarchy]

@blair227 Your anti-American. Love it or leave it buddy. And you probably voted for Obama. Traitor.

[blair227]

@wovokanarchy Yeah and I'll do it again you stupid moron old man.BTW,when I finally sell my business and retire next spring,I do plan on leaving it.I'm going to scotland where moron bastards like yourself would get the shit beat out of him at the local pub.

[wovokanarchy]

@blair227 Drinking is a sin for drunks like yourself. Typical cut and run move. I'll stay behind and defend your children and grandchildrens' freedom here in AMerica. COWARD

[blair227]

@wovokanarchy No thanks,crankwanker.You couldn;t protect you BVD's frome shit stains let alone anybody else you chicken hawk loving bastard.

[nickadow]

@blair227 Thanks for the service man and welcome home. I was in the big muddy in 70 & 71 These chicken hawks have no idea what it was like. Bush fought the war in Alabama and Cheney got one deferment after another. What a load of shit.

[blair227]

@nickadow Thank you kindly sir.I was fortunate enough to go back to Vietnam in 2006 and not much has changed there.I never really thought much about its beauty back then,but it truely was a beautiful place.It's really a shame the way we were treated then,but seeing the political climate in this country today,it's a miracle that we still survive as a country.

[ssjL3g3nd]

@blair227 Well, I myself went to Iraq and Afganistan, and although I deeply disagree with your opinions; I have a respect for you as a veteran and someone who served for our country. Brother in Arms if you will. So rather than ignorantly being an asshole and calling you a traitor, communist ect., I will leave it as I respecfully disagree than feel you are il-informed.

[blair227]

@ssjL3g3nd If you are a vet,thanks for your service,my youngest daughter was wounded in Iraq when the war started and is now 100 per cent disabled thanks to that idiot Bush.So if you are pro Bush who became the first president to actually start a war against a country that did't attack us,than you are the one who is terribley mis-informed.

[AllBobsAllTheTime]

@blair227 Good point, unless you count Wilson attacking Germany in WW1 or FDR attacking Germany, Italy, and Vichy France and their subject allies in WW2.

[blair227]

@AllBobsAllTheTime Perhaps you are ignorant of history.Americans were dying in WW1 before Wilson asked for a declaration of war.Germany was also sticking its nose in Latin and South America.Their U-boats were sinking our ships.As for WW2,Germany was an ally of Japan,I suppose you never heard of the Axis.Besides Germany declared War on us as well.

[AllBobsAllTheTime]

@blair227 Then you must be ignorant of history, Iraq firing on our planes almost daily for 10 years leading up to the war - of course Iraq, along with Al-qaida, declared war on us as well.

[WilliamWindsoar]

How true it is, but I wonder if we can't update the metaphor a little:

The sand was a-blowing in our eyes

The big fool's voice was hoarse

"I can see grounds for optimism"

And so we had to stay the course

We were dodging bombs in the big sandy

but we had to stay the course

It needs work, I know ... any advice?

[Rkymtnmary]

And so the wheel turns again...thank you...very well done.

[roundupreadynation]

One by one we can help spread the word that One Nation Under Corporate Rule with media talking points isn't going to leave much for our future generations. Thanks for sharing you're added to my Brave Field Producers.

[eliyaguy]

I am not going to point any moral

I'll leave that for yourselves...

Pete, oh Pete, Amen from me too

[Phillipa1]

Amen, Pete--always!

[TuArtGallery]

Great job.

[edlutton]

A very Liberal Friend sent me this,to bust my ball's What this has to do with Bush is reaching a bit. Looking way to deep for meaning that isn't there.I love Pete Seeger you don't always have to agree with a man's politics to enjoy his music.

[ReluctantRedneck]

Liked it, Bob. Thanks for sharing. Pete Seeger was a very special American. Later, Tony.

[Belisana]

Tony - Please don't talk about Pete in the past tense! He's alive and kickin' at age 87 - as is his music.

[ReluctantRedneck]

Wow... I had no idea. Thanks.

[ggww11111]

from another Nam vet- absolutely brilliant, and just as accurate today as back then. Can you imagine any network even considering such a telecast nowadays?

[betsy1950]

from a viet nam vet excellent always listen to the seargent

[MadMustard]

Great video Bob. Our Big Fool is waist deep in the muddy, too bad he is not standing on his head!

[NeWarg]

nice video thx for posting