531 pages of plagiarism. Hollow Holland offers the source; Ethan Smith "Views of The Hebrews" in print 1825, Joseph Smith reads about Hebrew linage an idea of american Indians, (Smith made reference to the book, had obviously read it. )
being Hebrews, complete with two races and epic wars. read it for yourself.
To the contrary there are many arguments against that book. If they were convincing to church members, they would leave just as millions have done. Just because a book hasn't been proven false to those members of it's faith, does not prove it's validity
Just as believers in the holy Koran might claim zero successful challenges against it, likewise this Mormon apostle do for his..
4 And I know that the Lord God will consecrate my prayers for the gain of my people. And the words which I have written in weakness will be made strong unto them; for it persuadeth them to do good; it maketh known unto them of their fathers; and it speaketh of Jesus, and persuadeth them to believe in him, and to endure to the end, which is life eternal.
"It has been a busy, busy time," Brother Samsel said.
TUBUAI, FRENCH POLYNESIA
With winds up to 120 miles per hour, Cyclone Oli struck the island of Tubuai on Feb. 4. More than 4,000 people were evacuated before the storm that killed one person and injured 11. No members or missionaries were hurt in the storm.
"All our members had employment prior to the earthquake," said Brother Samsel. "It is a matter of us identifying what they are capable of doing and helping them find those opportunities."
In addition to efforts in Haiti, the Church has responded to several other major disasters around the world.
The temporary housing is "intended to last until they can get more permanent housing," said Lynn Samsel, director of Church Emergency Response. "That will allow people to get out of the weather."
In addition, the Church is now focusing on employment for quake victims.
More than a month after an earthquake struck the Caribbean island Jan. 12, thousands of people continued to seek shelter at the nine Latter-day Saint meetinghouses around Port-au-Prince. In addition, the Church provided nearly 1,500 tents to those left homeless after the quake.
I love the gospel. It brings more happiness to my life than anyone could imagine. The Book of Mormon brings words of comfort that help me in the darkest of times and has answers to my everyday problems and so does the Bible. The BOM is another Testament of Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the BOM and all the people that sacrificed so much so that i could read it and have it bless my life. Please don't judge this book until you have read it.
The Bible most certainly is the word of God. I hope you will read it carefully. It is not some mysterious book. It says what it means and it means what it says. I especially hope you will carefully read John chapter 3. Remember also that Jesus who died to save men from Hell, spoke about Hell more than any other person in the Bible. He taught there was a broad way that leads there. He also taught that He Himself was the complete way 2 heaven. Sin is the only thing that keeps people out of heaven.
This is one of the weaknesses with translation. God did not command thou shalt not kill. He commanded thou shalt do no murder. Murder involves the taking of innocent human life. This is what God was forbidding. He was not saying don't squash a stink bug, or kill a fly, or a human who is a murderer or other serious criminal. The New Testament teaches that the law was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. No human was ever able to properly keep the law, that is why the Bible teaches that ALL have sinned.
It the Mornon god was the same yesterday, today, and forever, first of all he wouldn't have been a man who turned into a god. Secondly he would not command polygamy then condemn it, ban black people from the priesthood then allow them, radically alter the temple ritual in 1990 removing the blood oaths and mocking of the Christian pastors. etc. Neither the Bible nor the Book of Mormon teach, temple marriage, that man can become a god, or god was once a man. etc.
Didn't Christ change by taking upon himself humanity? What of the fact that for hundreds of years only the Levites held the priesthood. You hold mormonism to a standard that the Bible can't hold up to.
There is only 1 real job, 4 priests, that is 2 offer sacrifices 2 God, 4 sin. Jesus was the final priest, & offered the final sacrifice 2 God 4 sins. Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to heaven, not some man made church, with doctrines that contradict the Bible at every turn. Read John 3 very carefully. Mormonism is a false gospel, with a foreign Jesus, a totally different Jesus that the historical Biblical Jesus. Read 1 Corinthians 1:17,18. Christ is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
I suggest you actually study early Christianity. The priesthood and the temple played an important role. This is a quote from Margaret barker, a Methodist scholar. "It was logical for the high
priest to ask: Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One? (Mark 14.58-61). If Jesus was theMessiah, he would restore the temple; that was the expectation of the time." You are reading a modern bias onto the text. Temple ritual played an important role in early Christianity.
@carterfamily8903 In fact if you have studied theology you would know this. Do you know what seperates the lds idea of deification from the catholic one. The father of trinitarianism, athanasius said at the council of nicea, 'god became man that man may become god.' It was the foundation of christian salvation until it was rejected by the rest by augistine. It continued to play a role in the greek orthodox church though. All the early stressed theosis, or deification, and temple ordinances.
The Bible teaches very emphatically that there is only one God, That there never was a God before God, and there will never be a God created after God. God Himself declares that He does not know of any other God. Isaiah 43:10 & 44:6-8 Jeremiah 10:10,11 to name a couple. The only foundation of Christian religion, has always been Jesus Christ crucified. 1 Corinthians 1:17,18 John 3:36 Romans 10:10,11 etc.
@carterfamily8903 The majority of biblical scholarship disagrees with you. Traditional Monotheism didn't arise until about the third century c.e. Isaiah 40, the chapter you are quoting opens with a divine imperative. A setting that implies plurality. I suggest you read some biblical scholarship. Margaret barker, Michael Heiser, Theodore Mullens Jr, C.M. Cross, and Mark S. Smith would be good places to start. You are reading the scriptures out of context. Take a look at does passages in Hebrew.
@kryoung1983 You are lying, about that, and if you ever did any real research, you would find that the Jewish faith was very monotheistic. The primary problem the Jews had with Jesus, is He kept forgiving sins, and doing things that only God could do, and they knew that God is not a man, and there is only one God. They failed to see the prophecy that God would be with them as Emmanuel, born to a virgin. Isaiah 53 prophesied their rejection of Him.
I am not going to respond to everything. I don't have the time. I have done quite a bit of research into the second temple Judaism. There are over 185 references to God in the plural sense in the dead sea scrolls alone. Peter Hayman said, "there has been a tendency to proceed deductively from a priori presumptions of what monotheism must mean, instead of building up a view inductively from the evidence of how monotheism actually operated in the thought and practice of ancient Jews."
@kryoung1983 Satan fell, because he as a created being of God, though he could be like God. His temptation to Eve, included the same idea that she could basically become a God. Or be like God. Elohim is a plural word for God and is usually translated gods, when not referring to the real God. When referring to the real God, there are always indicators that this word though normaly a plural, should be understood in the singular sense. The trinity is indicated all through the Bible.
That is because time always vindicates the prophets. If what you say is true in quoting Isaiah then the Bible contradicts itself. psalms 45:7 "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." This verse says that God, was anointed God by his God. This is complete blasphemy by most and yet it is clearly written in the Bible. Isaiah taught that God presided over a council of gods.
@kryoung1983 The Bible does contradict itself, if it does not indicate that God is a triune being, which it very clearly indicates all throughout it. 1 John 5:7 says "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one." John 1:1-3,14 indicates that Jesus was God, and He was with God, yet He was God, it does not indicate two gods. We R Baptized into the NAME of not names of, the Father, Son & Holy Spirit. 3 beings would have 3 names.
@carterfamily8903 They are three idividual beings with one purpose. You don't fully understand mormon doctrine if you are using the "trinity" argument against us. I could say to you, "this is my testimony, and my father's, and my grandfather's.". It doesn't mean all three of us are one person. We are three individuals with the same purpose.
@PhenoxRyzing The Bible, and even your Book of Mormon teach explicitly that there is only one God. They further teach that this one God, consists of three persons, the Father, The Son, And The Holy Spirit. 1 John 5:7 John 1:1-3,14 Isaiah 43:10,11 44:6-8 2Nephi 31:21 Alma 11:25-31 3Nephi 11:27 Joseph Smith later contradicted these teachings and declared that there are many gods, that man can become a god, that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three beings etc.
@carterfamily8903 For instance Origen believed in three degrees of glory, and the idea of hell as a permanent place of torture can't be placed earlier than the fifth century. Joseph Smith did not redefine salvation, so much as he redefined our relationship to God. According to most God is ontologically unique. There is a firm creator/creator distinction. It is foreign to the biblical idea of creation though. Don't believe me.
@kryoung1983 Jeremiah 17:5 "Thus saith the Lord, cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord." see also Proverbs 30:5,6 the very first attack satan made, is the same attack the Mormon church makes. Genesis 3:1 to question the word of God. The next thing satan did, is the same thing also that the Mormon church does, he denied the word of God, and replaced it with other words, that were not the word of God.
Actually Garden imagery in the ancient near east is associated with kingship and divinity. as one scholar put it, "Man's status as the archetypal gardener / king in Genesis 2—3 contains important parallels with Mesopotamian kingship theory." In the ancient near east such imagery was used to illustrate Adams role as a divine being in the council of the gods. The ancient near eastern perspective is opposite of what you are proposing.
The Bible teaches that God is Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent. the very meaning of these words, is ALL POWERFUL, ALL KNOWING, AND ALL PRESENT. None of these can be true, if there are multiple gods. To have all power is to be absolutely unchallengeable period. What very limited power satan poseses, is granted by God, and will be taken away, whenever God determines his time is up. There will be no fight between God and anyone, when God acts, there is nothing and noone, who can hinder Him.
@carterfamily8903 Don't believe me. Ask a biblical scholar if the Hebrews believed in creation via ex nihilo which means to create out of nothing. It is contrary to the Greek, Mesopotamian, and Hebrew mindset. Even the greeks like aristotle and plotinus believed in the eternity of substance. I don't believe this came along until Tomas aquinas, as far as creationism is concerned. Aquinas just added exnihilo to the philosophical premises built up by greek philosophy.
@kryoung1983 This is an absolute LIE. The very Hebrew words themselves in Genesis 1:1 indicate from nothing God created. ex nihilo is not Hebrew though. Hebrews 11:3 says "Through faith we understand, the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." I am not interested in following any man, or what any man says. My trust is in the word of God, & hat only. When Jesus was tempted, every time, He responded by quoting the word of God.
The hebrew is 'bara.' ex nihilo is latin. Your view reinterprets the bible. Your view has fallen into disfavor among biblical scholars. As one scholar put it, Creation in the Bible is never ex nihilo, from nothing. This doctrine was not formulated until the Hellenistic Age. In the biblical tradition, and in the ancient Near East in general, God always works with some material that is either primordial or already there when God begins to create."
You do not have a real God, if He does not create from nothing. Any man, can build from something, only God can Create from nothing. Genesis 1:1 says in the Beginning God, not in the beginning everything existed, and a god or group of gods decided to build some stuff. The Bible teaches over and over again, that God spoke, and things came into existence the way He declared that it should.
@carterfamily8903 Joseph smith rejected exnihilo and the philosophical viewpoint that has controlled readings of the text. even with maimonides the Jews most famous rabbi, was strongly opposed by Jews of northern France and southern Germany when he said it was heresy to believe in a physical God. Joseph Smiths idea of creation is strongly backed up by biblical scholarship. Read Jon Levenson. He teaches judaism at Harvard. He is not a member of the church. He is jewish.
@kryoung1983 Joseph Smiths ideas are not in any way supported by the Bible at all. I have read it for myself over a dozen times. I know what the Bible clearly says, and Joseph Smith was a liar and a false prophet. He was also a greedy adulterer, who died a very wealthy man, married to 34 women, of whom 11 were married to another man at the time they were married to him. As I already quoted, the Bible says we are cursed, when we put our trust in men, our trust should be only in the word of God.
You said, "Joseph Smiths ideas are not in any way supported by the Bible at all."
The majority of all biblical scholarship within the last fifty years disagrees. I believe in the Bible. I just don't believe in interpreting it through man made philosophy. Even the scholars I quoted from places like Harvard I disagree with on points. I trust in the Holy Ghost, and it is by the power of the holy Ghost that I know these things.
The only way you interpret the Bible is through man made philosophy. I simply read it, and accept what it plainly says. God is not inferior to men. Man can write and say what he means and mean what he says. God does to. God did not write in some code, words which could only be desciphered by a select few men. God meant what He said, and if there is further insight to be gained, which there always is, God Himself can give the insight, and He does. I quote the Bible, not men.
@carterfamily8903 yet his views have a lot of paralels with Josephs Smiths. Or Read Raphael Patais work on the fact that the early Hebrews thought of God as married. He is also Jewish. Read Margaret Barkers book 'temple theology.' read Theodore Mullens Jr's dissertation to harvard. "the divine council in caananite and early hebrew literature.' Read athanasius sotoriology which was originally published by Duke University and later picked up by BYU.
@kryoung1983 Jeremiah 17:5 plain ly declares that God is not a man. Romans chapter 1 indicates that one major form of idolatry among men, is to turn God into some man. God entered into flesh in Jesus Christ, but God certainly was not a man who became a god. John 1:1-3,14 You ought 2 lookat page 43 of your Pearl of Great Price. Then do a brief study, on the egyptian god Osiris, & the egyptian goddesses Isis and Maat. You will find that page 43 is a picture containing pics of all 3 of these gods.
You use Jeremiah 17 but a Jew would use that against Jesus. Is not Jesus a man? I am well aware of my scriptures. I part company with the scholars on this point of God once being a man. The plurality of the gods is clearly expressed in the Hebrew of Isaiah. You reject Joseph for the same reason the pharisees rejected Christ. It goes against your traditions. If you respond don't just quote the Bible, since i have read it. Lets agree to disagree. I am only being contentious.
The term Elohim is used over and over again in Hebrew which generally would translate gods. But the descriptives around the word, when referring to God, make it plain that it is talking of only one God, though the Elohim shows some type of a plurality. The Triune nature of God , I believe is clearly indicated throughout the Bible. Jesus was God in Human flesh, not a god, but the only true God. It's not a daddy sending his son of to be murdered, it is God Himself paying the price for our sin.
@carterfamily8903 Jesus was Jewish and instead of researching the original context you superimpose your modern definition on the text so that you can justify the slandering of a pure prophet of God. I can give you references from Yale, Harvard, Princeton, but a testimony is not based off these things. My testimony is based off of the Holy Ghost. Not on these scholars. These things don't convert. I plead with you to read the book of mormon, and pray to know. You will then know as I know.
Your "spirit" is a feeling based on emotion that something that contradicts the Bible is true. The real Spirit of God leads me into all truth, and testifies of Jesus, that He (not the man made Mormon church)is the Only way to heaven. 2 Timothy 4:3,4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
U ought 2 really read the Bible sometime. Jesus Himself taught that unless R righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes & pharisees we shall in no wise enter in 2 the kingdom of God. The scribes & pharisees were meticulous law keepers, so much so, that they added tons of additional rules to the commandments, to make sure they did not come close to violating them. Paul teaches very clearly that our righteousness is not our own.see Romans 10:3-6/ 1 Corinthians 1:30 Galatians 2:21 etc.
Just a thought about probability. Anyone can claim they see angels. But what is the probability that they manufactured the experience? Since we have no natural explanation for supernatural events (by definition), even the most remote natural event is more probable than a supernatural event. So when Holland states that other explanations are pathetic, they are still more probable than a supernatural event, and you use that logic in every other discourse in religion except your own.
Mormonism is built on pride & ego, The Mormon brainwashing chant or testimony "I would like to bear my testimony that I know this church is true, I know Joseph Smith was a true prophet, I know the current prophet is a prophet of God..." Mormonism is built on the idea that every religion in the world is an abomination to God, & that Mormonism is the ONLY true church. It does not get any more prideful or arrogant than that. 2/3 of supposed Mormons are inactive. Only Jesus blood washes away sin.
No man can forgive sins, and confession can not forgive sins either, we should be sorry if we sin, if the blood of Jesus does not attone for our sins, the sins will not be forgiven, the earnings of sin is death and hell. I guess you have never read or just don't believe Ephesians 2:8,9 John 3:3,15-18,36 John 14:6 1 Corinthians 1:17-31 Galatians 3:24-27 1 John 5:10-13 Jude vs.24,25 etc. to give just a small example of other verses that teach salvation is not tied to our self righteousness.
Mormonism, like every false religious system, builds your pride, and ego, and judgmental attitude towards others. As a Mormon you have to constantly compare your life with others to convince yourself, that you might be good enough to go to heaven. The Bible teaches that every person on this planet has sinned, and therefore earned hell, Jesus Christ paid the penalty for our sins, but to accept Him forces us to give up our self righteous pride, & accept that our only hope is found in Him.
A thorough study of the complete Bible, testifies very thoroughly of its completeness. Joseph Smith is a fraud. If you look at figure 2 on page 41 of the Pearl of Great Price, Joseph identified this egyptian goddess Isis as King Pharaoh. He also identified figure 4 the egyptian goddess Maat, as Prince of Pharaoh. He couldn't tell an obvious female, from a male. Do a search on the internet, for pictures of the egyptian godesses Isis and Maat. This is not anti-Mormon, it is pro reality.
What an excellent talk by Elder Holland. I simply must express my gratitude that the Lord has given us the fullness of his gospel through Joseph Smith, and has given us a living prophet today who leads us earnestly, and humbly. With the Thanksgiving soon coming upon us I would hope that others would express ,more fully and without fear of the world, their love for and testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ restored on the earth!
What a talk! :) There is no greater peace than can be found than knowing that God knows you and is aware of your personal struggles. The Book of Mormon has helped me come to know God better and be more aware of his hand in my life. I am still learning, but I know that God speaks to us individually if we truly are seeking Him with pure intent.
You are right the church was the Church of Christ and not the church of Peter, however Peter was called to lead Christ's church upon his death. Just like the prophets today. That's why the name of our church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, because Jesus Christ is at the helm of our church as he restored his church to the earth after his apostles were martyred. Because the Bible is vague, and man can interpret according to his liking, it takes ongoing revelation.
1 Corinthians 2:9-16. The Bible teaches of a risen Christ, that death has lost it's sting because all mankind will be resurrected at one point. We are told in Corithians that when we are raised we will have a Spiritual body, one that will last forever, so then you should ask yourself if we will exist forever, why would we only marry until death do us part? Well it is simple,no other church claims the power to link heaven and earth, yet Jesus gave this power to Peter and his church.
You must remember that the council of Niccea agreed on what the Biblical text would be they did not include everything and they included things that they shouldn't have like the Song of Solomon. That is why the Bible has been interpretted a thousand different ways. That is why it is necessary for God to have a prophet to expound on scripture and to give scripture. We have been told in Amos 3:7 "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."
People can write books, & say what they mean & mean what they say, but God can't? What is the problem with the Song of Solomon? God is not affraid of sex, He created & invented it. He could have made reproduction through any means He wanted to, but He chose sex. Jesus never questioned the authority of the scriptures one time, but declared that not one tiny part of them would pass away, until all were fulfilled. The Bible says what it means & means what it says, the 66 books are all God breathed.
lol yep, That is why we can read Jude 1: 4 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints
A book good enough to be quoted, but not found in your 66 books.
The Bible has other quotes, including at least one spot where the apostle Paul quotes a pagan poet, pagan poets certainly were not writing scripture for
God, though the apostle was able to use something said to express his point. Jude mentioning something Enoch said, does not mean everything Enoch wrote was scripture. His quoted prophesy however is scripture, recorded in scripture. The Bible teaches that all scripture, is inspired or breathed by God. Alma 32:26 alone would disqualify the BOM.
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
SOUNDS LIKE A PROPHET TO ME. Also where did they get the info on Enoch being translated? It isn't found in the Old Testament. It must have come from another book.
No prophet in the Bible, was just verbatim recorded every time he opened his mouth. Of course Enoch was a prophet, and his prophecy is recorded in the book of Jude. I think you ought to check your Bible again, if you think that the traslation of Enoch is not in the Old Testament. Try reading Genesis 5:24. The Catholic Bible has extra books in it, none of which are scripture, I have read them also, there is some good history contained in some of them, but not scripture.
I do not pick and choose scripture, though Mormonism does. The Bible is the word of God, every one of the 66 Books in the Bible. Mormonism adds 3 more contradictory books, and picks and chooses which parts of their 4 books they want to accept, since they contradict each other so much. Then again, the current teachings by the current false prophet always take precedence over any of those books anyway. At least one of the extra books in the Catholic Bible claims itself to be a work of fiction.
Another book is being quoted as written by a man supported as a prophet. There are dozens of such cases where other prophets books not found.
John 20: 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book
John 21: 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
There are not dozens of such cases, there is a handful. You can accept anything as scripture from God, as long as it meets the test that it must meet. If it contradicts in any way what God has already written, it is not the word of God. Acts 17:11 teaches that if something claims to be the word of God, we should compare it carefully with what we know is the word of God, what we have already, and if it does not contradict, then we accept it. The BOM contradicts the Bible.
BOM teaches 3 days of darkness after Jesus death, the Bible teaches 3 hours shortly before He died. Helaman 14:20,26,27 vs. Matthew 27:45,46. 2 Nephi 25:23 teaches salvation comes after works, while Romans 11:6 teaches that grace and works are opposites, and Ephesians 2:8,9 declares we are saved by grace & that it has nothing to do with our works. 2 Nephi 12:8,9 copies & contradicts Isaiah 2:8,9 the BOM denies forgiveness to men who are not worshipping idols, because they don't worship idols.
if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? In King Solomon's temple he built a font, or in his time called a "sea" and placed it on 12 oxen 1 Kings 7:23-26. The oxen representation of the 12 Tribes of Israel facing the 4 corners of the earth. Later it was given through inspiration to Joseph Smith that to perform baptism for the dead required the binding power given to Peter. A resurrected Peter later gave this power to Joseph Smith.
be bound in heaven: and whatsoever yer loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matt:16: 16-19. If there were no linking of generations in the temple why would Jesus give this power? The renewing of the temple fulfills Malachi's promise that Elijah would be sent to "turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to father" Malachi 4:5-6. Read all of 1 Corinthians Chapter 15, but especially verse 29. "Else what shall they do that are baptized for the dead
Jesus wasn't building His church on Peter, but on Himself. He is the chief cornerstone. The prophets leading up to & including Jesus; & His disciples provide the foundation upon which the Church stands. Notice how Paul carefully excludes himself from the group of people who are doing baptizms 4 the dead. There is some evidence that the group practicing this was the very group Paul was addressing, when he made these comments. They don't believe the dead rise, yet they are getting baptized 4 them?
I have read the bible several times. After Jesus asks Peter who he is, and Peter says "Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God", Jesus tells Peter that "for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but by my Father which is in Heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kiingdom of heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall
I wish someone would beat me up rather so I couldn't be aware of how many of God's children who wont choose Him. Maybe I can bang my head against the wall. It would feel better. Oh well, I'll just swith youtube off and go back to my university studies.
i'm wrong, i'm wrong, i'm wrong. I can admit it. I'm wrong about the church, I'm wrong about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon..... what next?
By the was a quote from Elder Holland I love is: I have often thought that Nephi's being bound with cords and beaten by rods must have been more tolerable to him than listening to Laman and Lemuel's constant murmuring.8 Surely he must have said at least once, "Hit me one more time. I can still hear you."
So don't listen to the man. Leave it alone. I don't understand why other Christians would come here and put our church down, when there is just endless evil in this world. Isn't there something (according to your "evil gauge") that is a little more evil than our church that your could attack?
I like the LDS Lip Service but where is the Evidence ? All those battles, all those cities, all those arms, all those animals and yet no Evidence. Only thing we have is the plates that where given back, Book of abraham and other lip service. Is it Evidence or Evildence ?
I am here because the LORD has given me something that is called "free will". Even your so-called prophet($) approve. This there something wrong ? Thanks for your kindness and welcome.
""this feeling "of the Holy Spirit" is a feeling that can be had when one is in resonance with any non-physical thought form, or morphic field, or sentient entity. Just because you experience this feeling does not mean there is anything necessarily "true" about it.""
I bet he did use the word pathetic (all be it in his own tongue) to describe the pharisees. "ye hypocrites"... comes to mind. Don't think for one second that Christ stood around letting others canker God's law and not hear from him of their evilness. Jeffrey R Holland is an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I bear my testimony of that. He is a man of God and the way he spoke was with boldness and with the tongue of angels. Those who do not want to listen to him, don't.... Is that so hard?
Dear oh dear, have you been inside one of our temples? Or are you just guessing that it's bizarre? If you don't understand symbolism, then you won't get it, hence you aren't supposed to get it, like the dumb pharisees in Jesus' time.
I believe in the Book of Mormon. Simple answer why. Faith in Jesus Christ. And from real faith springs obedience. God will not bless us with asuredy of truth unless we prove ourselves through faith and obedience. You cannont know or understand why people belive unless you do it and feel it. Then God will continue to reveal the truth of what this earth is about. The Church only scratches the truth. Only one who continues to have faith, and obedience will receive the greatest witnesses.
awesome!!!! all those that heard this here testimony and still have a itchy ear and not wanna take heed, may the Lord shine down upon you a soften of your hearts...for now you heard an Apostolic testimony.. and it will be made known to you in the last day of judgment that the words of the Book of Mormon are true.
And to our dear Brother Jbizquik if you read the Book of Mormon with the distain, and not with an open heart and mind your animosity will grow stronger. Read 1 Cor 1:11 The only way to know the things of God is by the Spirit of God, distain and the Spirit cannot dwell in the same place at the same time. So if your heart is filled with animosity you cannot be open to the Spirit of God that is the witness of the truth. John:14:26-27 When you are interested in truth, the Lord will confirm it
The Bible also says "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." Matt 5:44 Carter Family you are entitled to your opinions and to voice them, let us all be examples of true Christianity and agree to disagree and love one another the way the Lord would want us to. Whether you accept it or not we are brothers and sisters in Christ and I know the Lord loves you.
Amen. Holland is amazing in every way! All the Anti and bombastic comments that people leave dont do anything but strengthen my testimony of the church and the Book of Mormon. And i know im not the only one. SO go ahead unhappy anti people keep commenting! Make the church stronger! Your doing a GREAT job!
The Bible is a compilation of inspired writings determined by the Niccean Council, not all inspired books were included in the Bible. Were these men perfect and prophets? The Bible foretells of being weary of false prophets, indicating if there are false prophets, there must be TRUE PROPHETS as well or a distinction would not be made. Jesus is the way the truth and life, no many comes to the Father but by Him, this is what both the Bible & Book of Mormon claim. Study, think, and pray about it
Mormon 8:12 "And whoso receiveth this record, and shall not condemn it because of the imperfections which are in it..."
Mormon 8:17 "And if there be faults they be the faults of a man..." The Bible is the word of God, the Book of Mormon indicates that it is an imperfect man made book.
I do believe that you are only quoting half of verses 12 and 17. It is a known fact that man is not perfect. Jesus Christ is the only "man" who ever has or will achieve perfection in a mortal life.
The Book of Mormon Testifies that Jesus Christ lives and that he is our savior. It is a collection of more prophets giving their testimony of this.
The...in the verses is supposed to indicate that the quote is partial, with only 500 letters to comment, I try to save space. Men are not perfect, but the Bible indicates that what is written in it, was perfect in the original copy, because God watched over them as they penned it. 2 Timothy 3:15,16 Proverbs 30:5,6 etc. The Bible teaches there would be false Christs and other gospels. The historical Christ is the one and only true God, who created everything. John chapter 1.
I hope to encourage everyone to read especially the Bible more. The Book of Mormon has verses that brainwash people. Mormon 8:17 "And if there be faults, they be the faults of a man. But behold we know no fault, nevertheless, God knoweth all things therefore, he that condemneth, let him be aware, lest he shall be in danger of hell fire." See also 2 Nephi 33:5. These verses shut down reasoning, and questioning. God encourages both. Liars hate to be questioned, God has nothing to fear.
If a person desires to believe something, they can believe anything they desire to believe. Belief does not make truth though. The Bible talks of those who will be damned because they chose to believe a lie. And God said in Heosea 4:6 that His people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Knowledge is learned facts, that are testable and provable. The Book of Momron contains a different message than the Bible. There is much that is similar, but much that is not at all similar.
Please Carterfamily, I really don't like this reasoning, you know why, you are telling someone that they are very dumb and can be brainwashed by reading a book, and yet then you ask them to use their brains and study another book.
I'm not telling anyone that they are dumb, very intelligent people can be decieved & brainwahed. I honestly believe, that if anyone believes that they do not believe any lies, their life is probably nearly totally built on nothing but lies. No good lie, looks like a lie, if it did, no person would ever believe it. The way to not be brainwashed or believe lies, is to always challenge everything you believe. Always look for things that challenge your beliefs. Truth cannot be proven false, lies can
1 thing to loose is my mind, due to brainwashing verses like 2 Nephi 33:5 that says no man will be angry with his words, save he shall be of the spirit of the devil. Joseph Smith claimed God had told him that every religion was an abomination in His sight. Today the Mormon church wants to look just like those "abominations". Acts 9:7 appears in english to contradict Acts 22:9, but in the Greek Acts 9:7 is indicating the men heard a sound while Acts 22:9 indicates they did not hear the message.
In Matthew 27:5 Judas hangs himself. In Acts 1:18 Judas falls headlong, and his insides come out. I believe Matthew gives the cause of death, and Acts 1:18 gives a later state. Perhaps Judas' rope broke, or was later cut, to get him down, and he fell headlong and his insides came out. perhaps he was hanging for a few days before this all happened, a dead animal will bloat after sitting dead for a while, and their insides can come out fairly easily then.
I think the two statements are pretty clear. there certainly wasnt a perhaps. Your first explanation to Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9 was perfect, for thats what our articles of Faith state for over 160 years now, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."
The bible doesnt loose any of its great power to convert and to teach, even though they are faults in it.
If the real problem with the Bible were translation, the texts are still available to make a better translation, the Mormon church teaches corruption or the original texts. While accepting fully the BOM which plainly declares there are errors in it. Mormon 8:12,17 Alma 32:26,27 declares that you cannot know of the surety of the words in this book at first. The Bible declares that every word of God is pure Proverbs 30:5. Jesus never once questioned the acuracy of the Bible, Satan did however.
The Book of Mormon is just honest as it tells that man can mae mistakes. A statement that every word of God is pure is not in contrary to anything I ever said. Obviously if the bible contraticts itself those parts arent the words of God
The Bible was written in Hebrew, Greek & Aramaic, we translate transcipts into english, translating sometimes produces contradictions which R not in the manuscripts, or sometimes copies an error in a manuscript. The BOM is claimed 2 be superior 2 the Bible, just like Satan claimed his idea was superior 2 the word of God, in the garden of Eden. The BOM had me brainwashed at 1 time, God has shown me the lies it is founded upon though. There is no historical or archaeological evidence 4 the BOM.
The Book of Mormon claims to be the most correct book, this is true. In turn could simple mean it has less contradictions in it then the bible.
Have u ever considered Mormon 9:33.I didnt really want to get into this with you. Since my only point i wanted to make was that the bible isnt free of contradictions. There are so many translations of it, and they all vary.
The Book of Mormon explains in Mormon 9:33 that when its writers express their weakness, it talks about the weakness of language. It explains that due to lack of space they wrote in the shorter reformed egyptian which has caused weakness of writing and plainness
The Bible teaches that God directed the men, who spoke for Him, and that those who wrote the scriptures were moved or controlled by the Spirit of God. There is no weakness in God, & though we may very well be weak, if God chose to use us to write scripture, there would be no weakness in words that God directed us to write. Do you think God would not provide sufficient writing materials, to write any message He wanted wrote? Alma 9:32-34 is an excuse for human words, posing as the word of God.
Wait, so you are trying to tell me that God failed to preserve his word as he had King James translate it into English or Martin Luther as he translated it into German? for now we have contradictions in those translations?
God's word is preserved perfectly in the original languages it was written in. People who translate the Bible, & R human, who can make mistakes, still have access 2 the complete word of God, in the original languages it was given in. There have been some mistakes made in some of the original manuscripts, so there is some work 2 determining for certain, the exact wording in the original message given by God. There are some scribal errors, but I believe the complete word of God is still preserved.
Well I truely believe that those that translated the bible were truely inspired by God. Contradictions dont take away from Gods word, for the real meaning is taught through the holy spirit.
The Book of Mormon is wonderful and the word of God. Everyone who sincerely reads it will find that for themselves. You accept the bible with obvious errors but dispute the Book of Mormon because u claim it to have errors in it.
Proverbs 30:5 says every word of God is pure. There R no errors in the word of God. Those who translate the Bible from its original languages, try 2 give us the best translation that they can, the exact precise meanings may sometimes be lost, but the main message is always very much in tact. The basic message of the Bible is that God created man, man sinned, God does not dwell with sinners, God became a man 2 die 4 our sins, if we accept what God did we go 2 heaven, by grace through faith.
nobody ever argued Proverbs 30:5. Thats what mormons believe.
If God really needed the translation to be perfet, dont you believe he could have preserved it? Therefore, as you correctly stated , the gospel of Jesus Christ is in the Bible and the spirit teaches us the gosple and not the literal words, f
The Mormon article of faith teaches that they believe the Bible as far as it is translated correctly, there is no qualification like this for the Book of Mormon though. God did preserve His complete message in the manuscripts, & I believe that if we study several different translations of the Bible, we can see in English pretty much exactly what the message is in the original language of the Bible(Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic).
And for those who have totally misunderstood Elder Holland's talk. That really shows how much you misunderstood his talk and himself as a person. If you were to watch every single one of his talks you would see his passion in all of them. But then again, its easier to mock and make fun than it is to understand.
I am amazed at how people are so stuck on ridiculing and mocking those who profess this faith, it seems as though they have to attack it to make themselves feel more sure about their decision to leave it. If you read and study history, not just the garbage people post of bits and pieces of things, you will find that there are FAR MORE evidences of the church's veracity than of anything else. Study ancient religious history, it will open your eyes a little!
You know, I have a sibling who is anti now. It happened a few years ago and to be honest I had seen all of the things he had shown me many years earlier but never thought much of it. But when he brought it up this time it really shook me because I had so little knowledge of church history, ALL of church history, not just bits and pieces. Now after studying religious history, from ancient to modern, everything from garments to temples, I am more sure than EVER before that this is the Lords church
Again, weak faithed members aren't really a damaging aspect to the LDS Church. We already know that many of the Lord's elect will be decieved, including - unfortunately - even the missionaries and the General Authorities. But even if the entire membership of the Church apostatized, the Church would still be true. Internet "evidence" is nothing more than doctored anti-mormon lies. I've lost friends to the falacies found on the internet about the LDS Church, none of them true.
The most telling difference to me, however, is the Spirit. I've been to other church services before, along with funerals and other such things, and I've tried to feel the Spirit within those experiences but it always tends to fall flat, with a feeling of empty coldness. In the LDS Church services, I feel warmth, joy, and positive outpouring from the Spirit. Everybody's experience is different, I suppose, but this is one major reason I know the LDS Church is true; consistant Spiritual pressence.
How many people here who love to make fun of the LDS faith have ever read the Book of Mormon? I can tell each and every one of you that I have read it, and that I have prayed to God about it and it is true! I am sorry for those of you who hate it and curse it so much, especially if you haven't read it.
I've noticed most of the anti's on this thread have channels designated solely to copying and pasting the same anti-mormon rhetoric on any LDS video on youtube. As well, they have several channels devoted to this purpose. So, the same dude will post constantly on one thread from many accounts. Or create new accounts pretending to be different people on the same thread. Totally creepy.
I find that interesting too. Why is it so important to them what people of the LDS believe? I know I don't devote my life to tearing down other people's beliefs. I know what I personally believe and I don't fear what I know is true.
Just for the record, I only have one account and rarely reply to any videos on Youtube, this video being an exception, due to my interest and enjoyment of this topic.
Perhaps one of the more interesting evidences of anti ignorance, in my experience, is their lack of knowledge - not only of the Book of Mormon - but the Bible as well. Every single facet of scriptural information in the Book of Mormon has an 'echo' in the Bible, yet they fail or refuse to see it. I can only think of a few things not actually present in the Bible contained in the LDS Gospel that couldn't be had unless via revelation.
U will not find the idea that God was once a man, or that man can become a God. U will not find pre-earth life, or preexistence, 3 kingdoms of heaven, eternal marriage, baptisms done in the temple, any human from natural parents ever holding the Melchizedek priesthood, magical underwear worn by anyone in the new testament church, 2nd chances 4 the dead, the building of more than 1 temple in existence at a time, the idea that handshakes & a new name will get U into heaven, anywhere in the Bible.
Lol. you must have been day dreaming while reading it then. Thats why you don't remember reading anything about premortal life, baptisms for the dead, degrees of glory, and eternal marriage, amazing. But you've read the bible over a dozen times. Well done! Amazing effort. Good dare by the way.
Have U ever read the Bible? If so, how many times? U can lie, to me, but U cannot lie to God. How many times have U read it? Why not make me look like a fool, I am begging U. Give me 1 verse in the entire Bible that teaches eternal marriage, that there was life for us, before "coming to earth"(Zechariah 12:1 says that God forms the spirit of man inside of him), or 1 verse that shows a marriage or a baptizm, for the living or dead, was done in the temple. You seem to know it is there, show me.
ok. you can look like a fool. Jeremiah1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
There's many others but I cannot care less to post them because obviously you are in a competition with me. I am not competative. So I admit defeat. You won. Have your reward whatever it is. I'll take my reward :
Please someone, hit me on the head with a saucepan
God knew Jeremiah before He created him. That does not mean Jeremiah knew God before Jeremiah was created. Jesus said before Abraham was, I AM. Abraham lived 2000 years before Jesus was born. The only thing that Jesus could have meant by the statement that He made, is I AM God. Before Abraham existed, I existed, because I AM God who alway has existed. We generally know most everything about what we are going to build, before we build it. God knows all about what He is going to create.
Note: camest forth out of the womb. That means, before he was born into the mortal world. How could Jeremiah be sanctified and ordained a prophet, if he didn't exist? He did exist. I can't believe that other Christians in this world can't comprehend a pre-mortal exisitence... or a life after this one, where we can acutally be married. What is the whole point of marriage and families in this life, if not to practice for the next. We may as well all be gay then.
..the Bible is only trusted as far as it translated correctly! Mormons do not hold strong to the Bible as they do to bofm. The BIBLE is the word of GOD. The bofm is a fairytale that this monster claims it to be. The only thing that supports the bofm is the bofm. Joseph Smith took everything that Jesus did and twisted it. Jesus says there is no marriage in the after life, Smith says not only are there marriages there are polygamist marriages. LYING PIGS
We must remember that our enemy is not the Mormon people though, it is the spiritual forces of wickedness in high places that are manipulating the Mormon people with their lies, that we are at war with. Ephesians 6:12. Satans first approach with Eve in the garden of Eden was to cause her to doubt the word of God. It is no surprise that this tactic is continuing to be used today, by those bringing another gospel, which is not another, Galatians 1:6-10 also 1 Timothy 4:1 & 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.
I'm not trying to attack the Mormon people. I am only trying to expose the lies that the Mormon faith is founded upon. The reason I focus a lot on Mormons, is because I was one for most of my life, and nearly all of my biological family still are Mormons. The Arabs need saved to. But I do not know many of them, and I don't really relate to them very easily. You are probably very close with your numbers, but God cares about each of them, and we must also.
I know that isn't what you really meant. I just thought that it could be taken wrong. Jesus told us to share the gospel with the entire world, many if not all of us, are very hostile to the gospel message at first. Remember the apostle Paul? who approved of the murder of stephen, and was trying to imprison and punish as many Christians as possible, at the time that God finally broke through to him. Christ was dying for us, while we were enemies of God, and fighting against God. Romans 5:8 etc.
Modern Christianity, it seems, cannot even explain the existence of the governmental aspect of the Lord's Church in ancient days. They had prophets, Apostles, Seventies, teachers, evangelists, baptism by EMERSION, laying on of hands, etc, etc. But most mainstream Christian Churches don't even come close to such a correct system, claiming that accepting Christ is the only requirement to get into heaven. I've had interesting conversations with Born Agains, Baptists, etc. Very interesting.
Such attackers, even the ones who claim to be expressing God's love for their 'decieved' brothers and sisters, will find they don't truly follow the Christ as they claim. Such people, the kingdom of heaven doesn't need in its borders. It's sad, indeed, but I know the direction I'm going, due to my own experiences and practical application in my own life. No anti will ever take that away from me, even if they killed me. They only condemn themselves before God.
It's interesting to note that so-called intellectuals who 'disprove' the Book of Mormon, have not seriously sought after the truth of it, relying upon the studies and philosophies of man, rather than the wisdom of God. The Bible, itself, cannot be proven through physical means completely. I've studied both, and I know, without doubt, The Book of Mormon is true. Those who fight against it and the Lord's Church, will, to their utter horror, find their souls lost at the Day of Judgement.
Holland isn't railing against the weak ex-Mormons who apostatized at all. The converts to the LDS Church worldwide outweigh the apostate members who leave, hands down. Such anti-Mormon 'testimony' from unbiased 'schollars' wasn't in persuit of the truth. Even those confederate Apostles in the earlier Church were mislead in their criticisms. Expositor WAS anti-Mormon, and yes, filled with lies. We know that many were forced at gun point to bear false testimony as well in that era.
Continuing to believe in mormonism by protecting yourself from information and villainizing the people who make that information available is basically like continuing to believe the world is flat and blaming Galileo for finding out it isn't.
Oh Amy, just because one does not apply certain sciences to something and believes because of a totally different method of truth seaching, does not make that person lame. On the contrar, if the Mormon church were compared to world population numbers, we would be in the Galeleo catagory, dear.
I believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. The spirit that is felt when the Bible is read is felt when the Book of Mormon is read.
Jesus is the Christ and he loves us all equally. His church is on the earth today.
I personally have trouble interpreting scripture. It is very complex, so I am grateful to have apostles of Christ bring clarity and application to scripture.
When I had my crisis of faith, my initial reaction was exactly like Hollands talk. Eventually I realized that people in all religions have similar spiritual experiences, but they cannot all be true.
Even if you have a genuine spiritual experience, it does not mean that everything that you believe is true, or that your belief system is superior to all others.
Holland is reacting to the large number of people leaving, and they are leaving because of the evidence. The facts are against him.
The only "rock of offense", in this case, is this speech. It's quite harsh, and an open attack on tens of thousands of ex-members. However, since the speech is riddled with fallacies, Hollands points are not very important, what's noteworthy is his tone and choice of words.
This is how the Gospel is to be preached. With the sound of a trumpet. This is the way the gospel was preached in the days of Orson Pratt, Parley P. Pratt, Brigham Young...even Joseph Smith preached with such boldness. That is what angered people. Truth was so boldly but before them, with the simplicity that even a child can understand it. The wicked could not handle it. Reading through the comments of this, they still can't handle the truth.
Invariably, the first to get (one's) hackles up, when it comes to fallacy, are the biggest offenders themselves, when it comes to parroting fallacious propaganda. The double standard is the "brand" of all those who choose the path you are on. Sadly and "pathetically", it can't be helped. I invite you to now "crawl" back into the woodwork you came out of.
531 pages of plagiarism. Hollow Holland offers the source; Ethan Smith "Views of The Hebrews" in print 1825, Joseph Smith reads about Hebrew linage an idea of american Indians, (Smith made reference to the book, had obviously read it. )
being Hebrews, complete with two races and epic wars. read it for yourself.
kramd1 1 year ago
To the contrary there are many arguments against that book. If they were convincing to church members, they would leave just as millions have done. Just because a book hasn't been proven false to those members of it's faith, does not prove it's validity
Just as believers in the holy Koran might claim zero successful challenges against it, likewise this Mormon apostle do for his..
dreamextreme7 1 year ago
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2 Nephi 33:4
4 And I know that the Lord God will consecrate my prayers for the gain of my people. And the words which I have written in weakness will be made strong unto them; for it persuadeth them to do good; it maketh known unto them of their fathers; and it speaketh of Jesus, and persuadeth them to believe in him, and to endure to the end, which is life eternal.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
"It has been a busy, busy time," Brother Samsel said.
TUBUAI, FRENCH POLYNESIA
With winds up to 120 miles per hour, Cyclone Oli struck the island of Tubuai on Feb. 4. More than 4,000 people were evacuated before the storm that killed one person and injured 11. No members or missionaries were hurt in the storm.
omiolo 2 years ago
"All our members had employment prior to the earthquake," said Brother Samsel. "It is a matter of us identifying what they are capable of doing and helping them find those opportunities."
In addition to efforts in Haiti, the Church has responded to several other major disasters around the world.
omiolo 2 years ago
The temporary housing is "intended to last until they can get more permanent housing," said Lynn Samsel, director of Church Emergency Response. "That will allow people to get out of the weather."
In addition, the Church is now focusing on employment for quake victims.
omiolo 2 years ago
More than a month after an earthquake struck the Caribbean island Jan. 12, thousands of people continued to seek shelter at the nine Latter-day Saint meetinghouses around Port-au-Prince. In addition, the Church provided nearly 1,500 tents to those left homeless after the quake.
omiolo 2 years ago
I love the gospel. It brings more happiness to my life than anyone could imagine. The Book of Mormon brings words of comfort that help me in the darkest of times and has answers to my everyday problems and so does the Bible. The BOM is another Testament of Jesus Christ. I am grateful for the BOM and all the people that sacrificed so much so that i could read it and have it bless my life. Please don't judge this book until you have read it.
BootayliciousBabay 2 years ago
hey
TheMunchtime 2 years ago
Such a bold testimony! I feel I should bear a stronger testimony from now on.
masoid3 2 years ago 7
The Bible most certainly is the word of God. I hope you will read it carefully. It is not some mysterious book. It says what it means and it means what it says. I especially hope you will carefully read John chapter 3. Remember also that Jesus who died to save men from Hell, spoke about Hell more than any other person in the Bible. He taught there was a broad way that leads there. He also taught that He Himself was the complete way 2 heaven. Sin is the only thing that keeps people out of heaven.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
This is one of the weaknesses with translation. God did not command thou shalt not kill. He commanded thou shalt do no murder. Murder involves the taking of innocent human life. This is what God was forbidding. He was not saying don't squash a stink bug, or kill a fly, or a human who is a murderer or other serious criminal. The New Testament teaches that the law was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. No human was ever able to properly keep the law, that is why the Bible teaches that ALL have sinned.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
It the Mornon god was the same yesterday, today, and forever, first of all he wouldn't have been a man who turned into a god. Secondly he would not command polygamy then condemn it, ban black people from the priesthood then allow them, radically alter the temple ritual in 1990 removing the blood oaths and mocking of the Christian pastors. etc. Neither the Bible nor the Book of Mormon teach, temple marriage, that man can become a god, or god was once a man. etc.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903
Didn't Christ change by taking upon himself humanity? What of the fact that for hundreds of years only the Levites held the priesthood. You hold mormonism to a standard that the Bible can't hold up to.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
There is only 1 real job, 4 priests, that is 2 offer sacrifices 2 God, 4 sin. Jesus was the final priest, & offered the final sacrifice 2 God 4 sins. Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to heaven, not some man made church, with doctrines that contradict the Bible at every turn. Read John 3 very carefully. Mormonism is a false gospel, with a foreign Jesus, a totally different Jesus that the historical Biblical Jesus. Read 1 Corinthians 1:17,18. Christ is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903.
I suggest you actually study early Christianity. The priesthood and the temple played an important role. This is a quote from Margaret barker, a Methodist scholar. "It was logical for the high
priest to ask: Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One? (Mark 14.58-61). If Jesus was theMessiah, he would restore the temple; that was the expectation of the time." You are reading a modern bias onto the text. Temple ritual played an important role in early Christianity.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903 In fact if you have studied theology you would know this. Do you know what seperates the lds idea of deification from the catholic one. The father of trinitarianism, athanasius said at the council of nicea, 'god became man that man may become god.' It was the foundation of christian salvation until it was rejected by the rest by augistine. It continued to play a role in the greek orthodox church though. All the early stressed theosis, or deification, and temple ordinances.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
The Bible teaches very emphatically that there is only one God, That there never was a God before God, and there will never be a God created after God. God Himself declares that He does not know of any other God. Isaiah 43:10 & 44:6-8 Jeremiah 10:10,11 to name a couple. The only foundation of Christian religion, has always been Jesus Christ crucified. 1 Corinthians 1:17,18 John 3:36 Romans 10:10,11 etc.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903 The majority of biblical scholarship disagrees with you. Traditional Monotheism didn't arise until about the third century c.e. Isaiah 40, the chapter you are quoting opens with a divine imperative. A setting that implies plurality. I suggest you read some biblical scholarship. Margaret barker, Michael Heiser, Theodore Mullens Jr, C.M. Cross, and Mark S. Smith would be good places to start. You are reading the scriptures out of context. Take a look at does passages in Hebrew.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
@kryoung1983 You are lying, about that, and if you ever did any real research, you would find that the Jewish faith was very monotheistic. The primary problem the Jews had with Jesus, is He kept forgiving sins, and doing things that only God could do, and they knew that God is not a man, and there is only one God. They failed to see the prophecy that God would be with them as Emmanuel, born to a virgin. Isaiah 53 prophesied their rejection of Him.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
I am not going to respond to everything. I don't have the time. I have done quite a bit of research into the second temple Judaism. There are over 185 references to God in the plural sense in the dead sea scrolls alone. Peter Hayman said, "there has been a tendency to proceed deductively from a priori presumptions of what monotheism must mean, instead of building up a view inductively from the evidence of how monotheism actually operated in the thought and practice of ancient Jews."
kryoung1983 2 years ago
@kryoung1983 Satan fell, because he as a created being of God, though he could be like God. His temptation to Eve, included the same idea that she could basically become a God. Or be like God. Elohim is a plural word for God and is usually translated gods, when not referring to the real God. When referring to the real God, there are always indicators that this word though normaly a plural, should be understood in the singular sense. The trinity is indicated all through the Bible.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Comment removed
kryoung1983 2 years ago
That is because time always vindicates the prophets. If what you say is true in quoting Isaiah then the Bible contradicts itself. psalms 45:7 "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." This verse says that God, was anointed God by his God. This is complete blasphemy by most and yet it is clearly written in the Bible. Isaiah taught that God presided over a council of gods.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
@kryoung1983 The Bible does contradict itself, if it does not indicate that God is a triune being, which it very clearly indicates all throughout it. 1 John 5:7 says "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one." John 1:1-3,14 indicates that Jesus was God, and He was with God, yet He was God, it does not indicate two gods. We R Baptized into the NAME of not names of, the Father, Son & Holy Spirit. 3 beings would have 3 names.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903 They are three idividual beings with one purpose. You don't fully understand mormon doctrine if you are using the "trinity" argument against us. I could say to you, "this is my testimony, and my father's, and my grandfather's.". It doesn't mean all three of us are one person. We are three individuals with the same purpose.
PhenoxRyzing 1 year ago
@PhenoxRyzing The Bible, and even your Book of Mormon teach explicitly that there is only one God. They further teach that this one God, consists of three persons, the Father, The Son, And The Holy Spirit. 1 John 5:7 John 1:1-3,14 Isaiah 43:10,11 44:6-8 2Nephi 31:21 Alma 11:25-31 3Nephi 11:27 Joseph Smith later contradicted these teachings and declared that there are many gods, that man can become a god, that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three beings etc.
carterfamily8903 1 year ago
@carterfamily8903 For instance Origen believed in three degrees of glory, and the idea of hell as a permanent place of torture can't be placed earlier than the fifth century. Joseph Smith did not redefine salvation, so much as he redefined our relationship to God. According to most God is ontologically unique. There is a firm creator/creator distinction. It is foreign to the biblical idea of creation though. Don't believe me.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
@kryoung1983 Jeremiah 17:5 "Thus saith the Lord, cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord." see also Proverbs 30:5,6 the very first attack satan made, is the same attack the Mormon church makes. Genesis 3:1 to question the word of God. The next thing satan did, is the same thing also that the Mormon church does, he denied the word of God, and replaced it with other words, that were not the word of God.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903
Actually Garden imagery in the ancient near east is associated with kingship and divinity. as one scholar put it, "Man's status as the archetypal gardener / king in Genesis 2—3 contains important parallels with Mesopotamian kingship theory." In the ancient near east such imagery was used to illustrate Adams role as a divine being in the council of the gods. The ancient near eastern perspective is opposite of what you are proposing.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
The Bible teaches that God is Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent. the very meaning of these words, is ALL POWERFUL, ALL KNOWING, AND ALL PRESENT. None of these can be true, if there are multiple gods. To have all power is to be absolutely unchallengeable period. What very limited power satan poseses, is granted by God, and will be taken away, whenever God determines his time is up. There will be no fight between God and anyone, when God acts, there is nothing and noone, who can hinder Him.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903 Don't believe me. Ask a biblical scholar if the Hebrews believed in creation via ex nihilo which means to create out of nothing. It is contrary to the Greek, Mesopotamian, and Hebrew mindset. Even the greeks like aristotle and plotinus believed in the eternity of substance. I don't believe this came along until Tomas aquinas, as far as creationism is concerned. Aquinas just added exnihilo to the philosophical premises built up by greek philosophy.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
@kryoung1983 This is an absolute LIE. The very Hebrew words themselves in Genesis 1:1 indicate from nothing God created. ex nihilo is not Hebrew though. Hebrews 11:3 says "Through faith we understand, the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." I am not interested in following any man, or what any man says. My trust is in the word of God, & hat only. When Jesus was tempted, every time, He responded by quoting the word of God.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903
The hebrew is 'bara.' ex nihilo is latin. Your view reinterprets the bible. Your view has fallen into disfavor among biblical scholars. As one scholar put it, Creation in the Bible is never ex nihilo, from nothing. This doctrine was not formulated until the Hellenistic Age. In the biblical tradition, and in the ancient Near East in general, God always works with some material that is either primordial or already there when God begins to create."
kryoung1983 2 years ago
You do not have a real God, if He does not create from nothing. Any man, can build from something, only God can Create from nothing. Genesis 1:1 says in the Beginning God, not in the beginning everything existed, and a god or group of gods decided to build some stuff. The Bible teaches over and over again, that God spoke, and things came into existence the way He declared that it should.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903 Joseph smith rejected exnihilo and the philosophical viewpoint that has controlled readings of the text. even with maimonides the Jews most famous rabbi, was strongly opposed by Jews of northern France and southern Germany when he said it was heresy to believe in a physical God. Joseph Smiths idea of creation is strongly backed up by biblical scholarship. Read Jon Levenson. He teaches judaism at Harvard. He is not a member of the church. He is jewish.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
@kryoung1983 Joseph Smiths ideas are not in any way supported by the Bible at all. I have read it for myself over a dozen times. I know what the Bible clearly says, and Joseph Smith was a liar and a false prophet. He was also a greedy adulterer, who died a very wealthy man, married to 34 women, of whom 11 were married to another man at the time they were married to him. As I already quoted, the Bible says we are cursed, when we put our trust in men, our trust should be only in the word of God.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903
You said, "Joseph Smiths ideas are not in any way supported by the Bible at all."
The majority of all biblical scholarship within the last fifty years disagrees. I believe in the Bible. I just don't believe in interpreting it through man made philosophy. Even the scholars I quoted from places like Harvard I disagree with on points. I trust in the Holy Ghost, and it is by the power of the holy Ghost that I know these things.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
The only way you interpret the Bible is through man made philosophy. I simply read it, and accept what it plainly says. God is not inferior to men. Man can write and say what he means and mean what he says. God does to. God did not write in some code, words which could only be desciphered by a select few men. God meant what He said, and if there is further insight to be gained, which there always is, God Himself can give the insight, and He does. I quote the Bible, not men.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903 yet his views have a lot of paralels with Josephs Smiths. Or Read Raphael Patais work on the fact that the early Hebrews thought of God as married. He is also Jewish. Read Margaret Barkers book 'temple theology.' read Theodore Mullens Jr's dissertation to harvard. "the divine council in caananite and early hebrew literature.' Read athanasius sotoriology which was originally published by Duke University and later picked up by BYU.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
@kryoung1983 Jeremiah 17:5 plain ly declares that God is not a man. Romans chapter 1 indicates that one major form of idolatry among men, is to turn God into some man. God entered into flesh in Jesus Christ, but God certainly was not a man who became a god. John 1:1-3,14 You ought 2 lookat page 43 of your Pearl of Great Price. Then do a brief study, on the egyptian god Osiris, & the egyptian goddesses Isis and Maat. You will find that page 43 is a picture containing pics of all 3 of these gods.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903
You use Jeremiah 17 but a Jew would use that against Jesus. Is not Jesus a man? I am well aware of my scriptures. I part company with the scholars on this point of God once being a man. The plurality of the gods is clearly expressed in the Hebrew of Isaiah. You reject Joseph for the same reason the pharisees rejected Christ. It goes against your traditions. If you respond don't just quote the Bible, since i have read it. Lets agree to disagree. I am only being contentious.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
The term Elohim is used over and over again in Hebrew which generally would translate gods. But the descriptives around the word, when referring to God, make it plain that it is talking of only one God, though the Elohim shows some type of a plurality. The Triune nature of God , I believe is clearly indicated throughout the Bible. Jesus was God in Human flesh, not a god, but the only true God. It's not a daddy sending his son of to be murdered, it is God Himself paying the price for our sin.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
@carterfamily8903 Jesus was Jewish and instead of researching the original context you superimpose your modern definition on the text so that you can justify the slandering of a pure prophet of God. I can give you references from Yale, Harvard, Princeton, but a testimony is not based off these things. My testimony is based off of the Holy Ghost. Not on these scholars. These things don't convert. I plead with you to read the book of mormon, and pray to know. You will then know as I know.
kryoung1983 2 years ago
Your "spirit" is a feeling based on emotion that something that contradicts the Bible is true. The real Spirit of God leads me into all truth, and testifies of Jesus, that He (not the man made Mormon church)is the Only way to heaven. 2 Timothy 4:3,4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
U ought 2 really read the Bible sometime. Jesus Himself taught that unless R righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes & pharisees we shall in no wise enter in 2 the kingdom of God. The scribes & pharisees were meticulous law keepers, so much so, that they added tons of additional rules to the commandments, to make sure they did not come close to violating them. Paul teaches very clearly that our righteousness is not our own.see Romans 10:3-6/ 1 Corinthians 1:30 Galatians 2:21 etc.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Just a thought about probability. Anyone can claim they see angels. But what is the probability that they manufactured the experience? Since we have no natural explanation for supernatural events (by definition), even the most remote natural event is more probable than a supernatural event. So when Holland states that other explanations are pathetic, they are still more probable than a supernatural event, and you use that logic in every other discourse in religion except your own.
ursowrng 2 years ago
Mormonism is built on pride & ego, The Mormon brainwashing chant or testimony "I would like to bear my testimony that I know this church is true, I know Joseph Smith was a true prophet, I know the current prophet is a prophet of God..." Mormonism is built on the idea that every religion in the world is an abomination to God, & that Mormonism is the ONLY true church. It does not get any more prideful or arrogant than that. 2/3 of supposed Mormons are inactive. Only Jesus blood washes away sin.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
No man can forgive sins, and confession can not forgive sins either, we should be sorry if we sin, if the blood of Jesus does not attone for our sins, the sins will not be forgiven, the earnings of sin is death and hell. I guess you have never read or just don't believe Ephesians 2:8,9 John 3:3,15-18,36 John 14:6 1 Corinthians 1:17-31 Galatians 3:24-27 1 John 5:10-13 Jude vs.24,25 etc. to give just a small example of other verses that teach salvation is not tied to our self righteousness.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Mormonism, like every false religious system, builds your pride, and ego, and judgmental attitude towards others. As a Mormon you have to constantly compare your life with others to convince yourself, that you might be good enough to go to heaven. The Bible teaches that every person on this planet has sinned, and therefore earned hell, Jesus Christ paid the penalty for our sins, but to accept Him forces us to give up our self righteous pride, & accept that our only hope is found in Him.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
A thorough study of the complete Bible, testifies very thoroughly of its completeness. Joseph Smith is a fraud. If you look at figure 2 on page 41 of the Pearl of Great Price, Joseph identified this egyptian goddess Isis as King Pharaoh. He also identified figure 4 the egyptian goddess Maat, as Prince of Pharaoh. He couldn't tell an obvious female, from a male. Do a search on the internet, for pictures of the egyptian godesses Isis and Maat. This is not anti-Mormon, it is pro reality.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
What an excellent talk by Elder Holland. I simply must express my gratitude that the Lord has given us the fullness of his gospel through Joseph Smith, and has given us a living prophet today who leads us earnestly, and humbly. With the Thanksgiving soon coming upon us I would hope that others would express ,more fully and without fear of the world, their love for and testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ restored on the earth!
ulovejulie 2 years ago
What a talk! :) There is no greater peace than can be found than knowing that God knows you and is aware of your personal struggles. The Book of Mormon has helped me come to know God better and be more aware of his hand in my life. I am still learning, but I know that God speaks to us individually if we truly are seeking Him with pure intent.
hamburgerhead 2 years ago
You are right the church was the Church of Christ and not the church of Peter, however Peter was called to lead Christ's church upon his death. Just like the prophets today. That's why the name of our church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, because Jesus Christ is at the helm of our church as he restored his church to the earth after his apostles were martyred. Because the Bible is vague, and man can interpret according to his liking, it takes ongoing revelation.
angellgirl1 2 years ago
1 Corinthians 2:9-16. The Bible teaches of a risen Christ, that death has lost it's sting because all mankind will be resurrected at one point. We are told in Corithians that when we are raised we will have a Spiritual body, one that will last forever, so then you should ask yourself if we will exist forever, why would we only marry until death do us part? Well it is simple,no other church claims the power to link heaven and earth, yet Jesus gave this power to Peter and his church.
angellgirl1 2 years ago
You must remember that the council of Niccea agreed on what the Biblical text would be they did not include everything and they included things that they shouldn't have like the Song of Solomon. That is why the Bible has been interpretted a thousand different ways. That is why it is necessary for God to have a prophet to expound on scripture and to give scripture. We have been told in Amos 3:7 "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."
angellgirl1 2 years ago
People can write books, & say what they mean & mean what they say, but God can't? What is the problem with the Song of Solomon? God is not affraid of sex, He created & invented it. He could have made reproduction through any means He wanted to, but He chose sex. Jesus never questioned the authority of the scriptures one time, but declared that not one tiny part of them would pass away, until all were fulfilled. The Bible says what it means & means what it says, the 66 books are all God breathed.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
lol yep, That is why we can read Jude 1: 4 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints
A book good enough to be quoted, but not found in your 66 books.
Bureyeanne 2 years ago
The Bible has other quotes, including at least one spot where the apostle Paul quotes a pagan poet, pagan poets certainly were not writing scripture for
God, though the apostle was able to use something said to express his point. Jude mentioning something Enoch said, does not mean everything Enoch wrote was scripture. His quoted prophesy however is scripture, recorded in scripture. The Bible teaches that all scripture, is inspired or breathed by God. Alma 32:26 alone would disqualify the BOM.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
#
Heb. 11: 5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
SOUNDS LIKE A PROPHET TO ME. Also where did they get the info on Enoch being translated? It isn't found in the Old Testament. It must have come from another book.
Bureyeanne 2 years ago
No prophet in the Bible, was just verbatim recorded every time he opened his mouth. Of course Enoch was a prophet, and his prophecy is recorded in the book of Jude. I think you ought to check your Bible again, if you think that the traslation of Enoch is not in the Old Testament. Try reading Genesis 5:24. The Catholic Bible has extra books in it, none of which are scripture, I have read them also, there is some good history contained in some of them, but not scripture.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
You have as much authority to pick and choose scripture as the Catholics.
Bureyeanne 2 years ago
I do not pick and choose scripture, though Mormonism does. The Bible is the word of God, every one of the 66 Books in the Bible. Mormonism adds 3 more contradictory books, and picks and chooses which parts of their 4 books they want to accept, since they contradict each other so much. Then again, the current teachings by the current false prophet always take precedence over any of those books anyway. At least one of the extra books in the Catholic Bible claims itself to be a work of fiction.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Another book is being quoted as written by a man supported as a prophet. There are dozens of such cases where other prophets books not found.
John 20: 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book
John 21: 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
The complete word of God? No.
Bureyeanne 2 years ago
There are not dozens of such cases, there is a handful. You can accept anything as scripture from God, as long as it meets the test that it must meet. If it contradicts in any way what God has already written, it is not the word of God. Acts 17:11 teaches that if something claims to be the word of God, we should compare it carefully with what we know is the word of God, what we have already, and if it does not contradict, then we accept it. The BOM contradicts the Bible.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
No it doesn't.
Bureyeanne 2 years ago
BOM teaches 3 days of darkness after Jesus death, the Bible teaches 3 hours shortly before He died. Helaman 14:20,26,27 vs. Matthew 27:45,46. 2 Nephi 25:23 teaches salvation comes after works, while Romans 11:6 teaches that grace and works are opposites, and Ephesians 2:8,9 declares we are saved by grace & that it has nothing to do with our works. 2 Nephi 12:8,9 copies & contradicts Isaiah 2:8,9 the BOM denies forgiveness to men who are not worshipping idols, because they don't worship idols.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
No it doesn't.
Bureyeanne 2 years ago
if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? In King Solomon's temple he built a font, or in his time called a "sea" and placed it on 12 oxen 1 Kings 7:23-26. The oxen representation of the 12 Tribes of Israel facing the 4 corners of the earth. Later it was given through inspiration to Joseph Smith that to perform baptism for the dead required the binding power given to Peter. A resurrected Peter later gave this power to Joseph Smith.
angellgirl1 2 years ago
be bound in heaven: and whatsoever yer loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matt:16: 16-19. If there were no linking of generations in the temple why would Jesus give this power? The renewing of the temple fulfills Malachi's promise that Elijah would be sent to "turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to father" Malachi 4:5-6. Read all of 1 Corinthians Chapter 15, but especially verse 29. "Else what shall they do that are baptized for the dead
angellgirl1 2 years ago
Jesus wasn't building His church on Peter, but on Himself. He is the chief cornerstone. The prophets leading up to & including Jesus; & His disciples provide the foundation upon which the Church stands. Notice how Paul carefully excludes himself from the group of people who are doing baptizms 4 the dead. There is some evidence that the group practicing this was the very group Paul was addressing, when he made these comments. They don't believe the dead rise, yet they are getting baptized 4 them?
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
I have read the bible several times. After Jesus asks Peter who he is, and Peter says "Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God", Jesus tells Peter that "for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but by my Father which is in Heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kiingdom of heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall
angellgirl1 2 years ago
I wish someone would beat me up rather so I couldn't be aware of how many of God's children who wont choose Him. Maybe I can bang my head against the wall. It would feel better. Oh well, I'll just swith youtube off and go back to my university studies.
Cherio
ninabalarina4 2 years ago
i'm wrong, i'm wrong, i'm wrong. I can admit it. I'm wrong about the church, I'm wrong about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon..... what next?
By the was a quote from Elder Holland I love is: I have often thought that Nephi's being bound with cords and beaten by rods must have been more tolerable to him than listening to Laman and Lemuel's constant murmuring.8 Surely he must have said at least once, "Hit me one more time. I can still hear you."
ninabalarina4 2 years ago
unrepentance is the real reason people leave the church. It is the reason they start searching to prove the church is false. It is always the way.
ninabalarina4 2 years ago
yes, He told the Sadducies and Pharisees they were hypocrites.
Have you read the bible? God punishes his people when they sin.
He's not all lovey dovey like so called "Christians" percieve him to be these days.
He is pure love, and that means he tells it how it is.
ninabalarina4 2 years ago
So don't listen to the man. Leave it alone. I don't understand why other Christians would come here and put our church down, when there is just endless evil in this world. Isn't there something (according to your "evil gauge") that is a little more evil than our church that your could attack?
Nappaljarri1 2 years ago
I like the LDS Lip Service but where is the Evidence ? All those battles, all those cities, all those arms, all those animals and yet no Evidence. Only thing we have is the plates that where given back, Book of abraham and other lip service. Is it Evidence or Evildence ?
alofano 2 years ago
Why are you here if only to ask for physical evidence? Go do something physical instead of playing with vertual reality then.
Nappaljarri1 2 years ago
I am here because the LORD has given me something that is called "free will". Even your so-called prophet($) approve. This there something wrong ? Thanks for your kindness and welcome.
alofano 2 years ago
You must not get the point of my comment, go and read it in the context of a reply to your previous comment.
Nappaljarri1 2 years ago
I like this statement made by Robert BUSHMAN
""this feeling "of the Holy Spirit" is a feeling that can be had when one is in resonance with any non-physical thought form, or morphic field, or sentient entity. Just because you experience this feeling does not mean there is anything necessarily "true" about it.""
alofano 2 years ago
I bet he did use the word pathetic (all be it in his own tongue) to describe the pharisees. "ye hypocrites"... comes to mind. Don't think for one second that Christ stood around letting others canker God's law and not hear from him of their evilness. Jeffrey R Holland is an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I bear my testimony of that. He is a man of God and the way he spoke was with boldness and with the tongue of angels. Those who do not want to listen to him, don't.... Is that so hard?
Nappaljarri1 2 years ago
Dear oh dear, have you been inside one of our temples? Or are you just guessing that it's bizarre? If you don't understand symbolism, then you won't get it, hence you aren't supposed to get it, like the dumb pharisees in Jesus' time.
Nappaljarri1 2 years ago
I believe in the Book of Mormon. Simple answer why. Faith in Jesus Christ. And from real faith springs obedience. God will not bless us with asuredy of truth unless we prove ourselves through faith and obedience. You cannont know or understand why people belive unless you do it and feel it. Then God will continue to reveal the truth of what this earth is about. The Church only scratches the truth. Only one who continues to have faith, and obedience will receive the greatest witnesses.
ninabalarina4 2 years ago
awesome!!!! all those that heard this here testimony and still have a itchy ear and not wanna take heed, may the Lord shine down upon you a soften of your hearts...for now you heard an Apostolic testimony.. and it will be made known to you in the last day of judgment that the words of the Book of Mormon are true.
please read it... but with a open mind and heart.
havea
defender of the truth
havea1998 2 years ago
And to our dear Brother Jbizquik if you read the Book of Mormon with the distain, and not with an open heart and mind your animosity will grow stronger. Read 1 Cor 1:11 The only way to know the things of God is by the Spirit of God, distain and the Spirit cannot dwell in the same place at the same time. So if your heart is filled with animosity you cannot be open to the Spirit of God that is the witness of the truth. John:14:26-27 When you are interested in truth, the Lord will confirm it
angellgirl1 2 years ago
The Bible also says "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." Matt 5:44 Carter Family you are entitled to your opinions and to voice them, let us all be examples of true Christianity and agree to disagree and love one another the way the Lord would want us to. Whether you accept it or not we are brothers and sisters in Christ and I know the Lord loves you.
angellgirl1 2 years ago
The Book of Mormon is the word of God.
mevale100 2 years ago
Amen. Holland is amazing in every way! All the Anti and bombastic comments that people leave dont do anything but strengthen my testimony of the church and the Book of Mormon. And i know im not the only one. SO go ahead unhappy anti people keep commenting! Make the church stronger! Your doing a GREAT job!
ecady 2 years ago
Well said!
jeraboo29 2 years ago
Sorry for the typo - no I am not perfect either!
angellgirl1 2 years ago
The Bible is a compilation of inspired writings determined by the Niccean Council, not all inspired books were included in the Bible. Were these men perfect and prophets? The Bible foretells of being weary of false prophets, indicating if there are false prophets, there must be TRUE PROPHETS as well or a distinction would not be made. Jesus is the way the truth and life, no many comes to the Father but by Him, this is what both the Bible & Book of Mormon claim. Study, think, and pray about it
angellgirl1 2 years ago
i never met Jeffrey R. Holland in person but just from watching his testimony i love him with all of my heart.
futballmatt98 2 years ago
From the Book of Mormon:
Mormon 8:12 "And whoso receiveth this record, and shall not condemn it because of the imperfections which are in it..."
Mormon 8:17 "And if there be faults they be the faults of a man..." The Bible is the word of God, the Book of Mormon indicates that it is an imperfect man made book.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
I do believe that you are only quoting half of verses 12 and 17. It is a known fact that man is not perfect. Jesus Christ is the only "man" who ever has or will achieve perfection in a mortal life.
The Book of Mormon Testifies that Jesus Christ lives and that he is our savior. It is a collection of more prophets giving their testimony of this.
Jbizquik 2 years ago
The...in the verses is supposed to indicate that the quote is partial, with only 500 letters to comment, I try to save space. Men are not perfect, but the Bible indicates that what is written in it, was perfect in the original copy, because God watched over them as they penned it. 2 Timothy 3:15,16 Proverbs 30:5,6 etc. The Bible teaches there would be false Christs and other gospels. The historical Christ is the one and only true God, who created everything. John chapter 1.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
carterfamily8903,
You seem very well versed in scripture and I dont have a response for what you are telling me except for this:
If you read the Book of Mormon with the intent on finding truth as opposed to faults, you will indeed be filled with the spirit of Jesus Christ.
Thank you for the enlightening scriptures!
It makes me want to read more!
Jbizquik 2 years ago
I hope to encourage everyone to read especially the Bible more. The Book of Mormon has verses that brainwash people. Mormon 8:17 "And if there be faults, they be the faults of a man. But behold we know no fault, nevertheless, God knoweth all things therefore, he that condemneth, let him be aware, lest he shall be in danger of hell fire." See also 2 Nephi 33:5. These verses shut down reasoning, and questioning. God encourages both. Liars hate to be questioned, God has nothing to fear.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Like I said before:
If the Book Of Mormon is read with intent of truth, as opposed to faults, testimonies of Jesus Christ can be gained and made stronger.
Jbizquik 2 years ago
If a person desires to believe something, they can believe anything they desire to believe. Belief does not make truth though. The Bible talks of those who will be damned because they chose to believe a lie. And God said in Heosea 4:6 that His people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Knowledge is learned facts, that are testable and provable. The Book of Momron contains a different message than the Bible. There is much that is similar, but much that is not at all similar.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Please Carterfamily, I really don't like this reasoning, you know why, you are telling someone that they are very dumb and can be brainwashed by reading a book, and yet then you ask them to use their brains and study another book.
Nappaljarri1 2 years ago
I'm not telling anyone that they are dumb, very intelligent people can be decieved & brainwahed. I honestly believe, that if anyone believes that they do not believe any lies, their life is probably nearly totally built on nothing but lies. No good lie, looks like a lie, if it did, no person would ever believe it. The way to not be brainwashed or believe lies, is to always challenge everything you believe. Always look for things that challenge your beliefs. Truth cannot be proven false, lies can
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Interesting is that the bible contracticts itself plaining aswell. Even men of God, are still men.
Have you considered Acts 9:7 v. Acts 22:9 as it talks about Pauls vision?
Have you considered Matt.27:5 v. Acts 1:18 as to Judas death?
Very clear contradictions, does it take away of my faith in the bible? NO.
I just wish you would give the Book of Mormon a chance as to read it with an open heart and mind, what can you loose
maalha 2 years ago 2
1 thing to loose is my mind, due to brainwashing verses like 2 Nephi 33:5 that says no man will be angry with his words, save he shall be of the spirit of the devil. Joseph Smith claimed God had told him that every religion was an abomination in His sight. Today the Mormon church wants to look just like those "abominations". Acts 9:7 appears in english to contradict Acts 22:9, but in the Greek Acts 9:7 is indicating the men heard a sound while Acts 22:9 indicates they did not hear the message.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
In Matthew 27:5 Judas hangs himself. In Acts 1:18 Judas falls headlong, and his insides come out. I believe Matthew gives the cause of death, and Acts 1:18 gives a later state. Perhaps Judas' rope broke, or was later cut, to get him down, and he fell headlong and his insides came out. perhaps he was hanging for a few days before this all happened, a dead animal will bloat after sitting dead for a while, and their insides can come out fairly easily then.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
I think the two statements are pretty clear. there certainly wasnt a perhaps. Your first explanation to Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9 was perfect, for thats what our articles of Faith state for over 160 years now, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."
The bible doesnt loose any of its great power to convert and to teach, even though they are faults in it.
maalha 2 years ago
If the real problem with the Bible were translation, the texts are still available to make a better translation, the Mormon church teaches corruption or the original texts. While accepting fully the BOM which plainly declares there are errors in it. Mormon 8:12,17 Alma 32:26,27 declares that you cannot know of the surety of the words in this book at first. The Bible declares that every word of God is pure Proverbs 30:5. Jesus never once questioned the acuracy of the Bible, Satan did however.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
I proved my point.
The Book of Mormon is just honest as it tells that man can mae mistakes. A statement that every word of God is pure is not in contrary to anything I ever said. Obviously if the bible contraticts itself those parts arent the words of God
maalha 2 years ago
The Bible was written in Hebrew, Greek & Aramaic, we translate transcipts into english, translating sometimes produces contradictions which R not in the manuscripts, or sometimes copies an error in a manuscript. The BOM is claimed 2 be superior 2 the Bible, just like Satan claimed his idea was superior 2 the word of God, in the garden of Eden. The BOM had me brainwashed at 1 time, God has shown me the lies it is founded upon though. There is no historical or archaeological evidence 4 the BOM.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
The Book of Mormon claims to be the most correct book, this is true. In turn could simple mean it has less contradictions in it then the bible.
Have u ever considered Mormon 9:33.I didnt really want to get into this with you. Since my only point i wanted to make was that the bible isnt free of contradictions. There are so many translations of it, and they all vary.
maalha 2 years ago 2
The Book of Mormon explains in Mormon 9:33 that when its writers express their weakness, it talks about the weakness of language. It explains that due to lack of space they wrote in the shorter reformed egyptian which has caused weakness of writing and plainness
maalha 2 years ago
The Bible teaches that God directed the men, who spoke for Him, and that those who wrote the scriptures were moved or controlled by the Spirit of God. There is no weakness in God, & though we may very well be weak, if God chose to use us to write scripture, there would be no weakness in words that God directed us to write. Do you think God would not provide sufficient writing materials, to write any message He wanted wrote? Alma 9:32-34 is an excuse for human words, posing as the word of God.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Wait, so you are trying to tell me that God failed to preserve his word as he had King James translate it into English or Martin Luther as he translated it into German? for now we have contradictions in those translations?
maalha 2 years ago
God's word is preserved perfectly in the original languages it was written in. People who translate the Bible, & R human, who can make mistakes, still have access 2 the complete word of God, in the original languages it was given in. There have been some mistakes made in some of the original manuscripts, so there is some work 2 determining for certain, the exact wording in the original message given by God. There are some scribal errors, but I believe the complete word of God is still preserved.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Well I truely believe that those that translated the bible were truely inspired by God. Contradictions dont take away from Gods word, for the real meaning is taught through the holy spirit.
The Book of Mormon is wonderful and the word of God. Everyone who sincerely reads it will find that for themselves. You accept the bible with obvious errors but dispute the Book of Mormon because u claim it to have errors in it.
maalha 2 years ago
Proverbs 30:5 says every word of God is pure. There R no errors in the word of God. Those who translate the Bible from its original languages, try 2 give us the best translation that they can, the exact precise meanings may sometimes be lost, but the main message is always very much in tact. The basic message of the Bible is that God created man, man sinned, God does not dwell with sinners, God became a man 2 die 4 our sins, if we accept what God did we go 2 heaven, by grace through faith.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
nobody ever argued Proverbs 30:5. Thats what mormons believe.
If God really needed the translation to be perfet, dont you believe he could have preserved it? Therefore, as you correctly stated , the gospel of Jesus Christ is in the Bible and the spirit teaches us the gosple and not the literal words, f
maalha 2 years ago
The Mormon article of faith teaches that they believe the Bible as far as it is translated correctly, there is no qualification like this for the Book of Mormon though. God did preserve His complete message in the manuscripts, & I believe that if we study several different translations of the Bible, we can see in English pretty much exactly what the message is in the original language of the Bible(Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic).
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
And for those who have totally misunderstood Elder Holland's talk. That really shows how much you misunderstood his talk and himself as a person. If you were to watch every single one of his talks you would see his passion in all of them. But then again, its easier to mock and make fun than it is to understand.
hoolege06 2 years ago
I am amazed at how people are so stuck on ridiculing and mocking those who profess this faith, it seems as though they have to attack it to make themselves feel more sure about their decision to leave it. If you read and study history, not just the garbage people post of bits and pieces of things, you will find that there are FAR MORE evidences of the church's veracity than of anything else. Study ancient religious history, it will open your eyes a little!
hoolege06 2 years ago
You know, I have a sibling who is anti now. It happened a few years ago and to be honest I had seen all of the things he had shown me many years earlier but never thought much of it. But when he brought it up this time it really shook me because I had so little knowledge of church history, ALL of church history, not just bits and pieces. Now after studying religious history, from ancient to modern, everything from garments to temples, I am more sure than EVER before that this is the Lords church
hoolege06 2 years ago 2
Again, weak faithed members aren't really a damaging aspect to the LDS Church. We already know that many of the Lord's elect will be decieved, including - unfortunately - even the missionaries and the General Authorities. But even if the entire membership of the Church apostatized, the Church would still be true. Internet "evidence" is nothing more than doctored anti-mormon lies. I've lost friends to the falacies found on the internet about the LDS Church, none of them true.
CORPSEINTRON 2 years ago
The most telling difference to me, however, is the Spirit. I've been to other church services before, along with funerals and other such things, and I've tried to feel the Spirit within those experiences but it always tends to fall flat, with a feeling of empty coldness. In the LDS Church services, I feel warmth, joy, and positive outpouring from the Spirit. Everybody's experience is different, I suppose, but this is one major reason I know the LDS Church is true; consistant Spiritual pressence.
CORPSEINTRON 2 years ago
How many people here who love to make fun of the LDS faith have ever read the Book of Mormon? I can tell each and every one of you that I have read it, and that I have prayed to God about it and it is true! I am sorry for those of you who hate it and curse it so much, especially if you haven't read it.
hoolege06 2 years ago 2
I've noticed most of the anti's on this thread have channels designated solely to copying and pasting the same anti-mormon rhetoric on any LDS video on youtube. As well, they have several channels devoted to this purpose. So, the same dude will post constantly on one thread from many accounts. Or create new accounts pretending to be different people on the same thread. Totally creepy.
jeraboo29 2 years ago
I find that interesting too. Why is it so important to them what people of the LDS believe? I know I don't devote my life to tearing down other people's beliefs. I know what I personally believe and I don't fear what I know is true.
88Aladdin 2 years ago
Just for the record, I only have one account and rarely reply to any videos on Youtube, this video being an exception, due to my interest and enjoyment of this topic.
micah3sixty 2 years ago
Perhaps one of the more interesting evidences of anti ignorance, in my experience, is their lack of knowledge - not only of the Book of Mormon - but the Bible as well. Every single facet of scriptural information in the Book of Mormon has an 'echo' in the Bible, yet they fail or refuse to see it. I can only think of a few things not actually present in the Bible contained in the LDS Gospel that couldn't be had unless via revelation.
CORPSEINTRON 2 years ago
U will not find the idea that God was once a man, or that man can become a God. U will not find pre-earth life, or preexistence, 3 kingdoms of heaven, eternal marriage, baptisms done in the temple, any human from natural parents ever holding the Melchizedek priesthood, magical underwear worn by anyone in the new testament church, 2nd chances 4 the dead, the building of more than 1 temple in existence at a time, the idea that handshakes & a new name will get U into heaven, anywhere in the Bible.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
lol. obviously you've never read the bible before
ninabalarina4 2 years ago
Actually I have read it over a dozen times. I dare you, to post how many times you have read the Bible, and not be lying through your teeth.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Lol. you must have been day dreaming while reading it then. Thats why you don't remember reading anything about premortal life, baptisms for the dead, degrees of glory, and eternal marriage, amazing. But you've read the bible over a dozen times. Well done! Amazing effort. Good dare by the way.
ninabalarina4 2 years ago
Have U ever read the Bible? If so, how many times? U can lie, to me, but U cannot lie to God. How many times have U read it? Why not make me look like a fool, I am begging U. Give me 1 verse in the entire Bible that teaches eternal marriage, that there was life for us, before "coming to earth"(Zechariah 12:1 says that God forms the spirit of man inside of him), or 1 verse that shows a marriage or a baptizm, for the living or dead, was done in the temple. You seem to know it is there, show me.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
ok. you can look like a fool. Jeremiah1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
There's many others but I cannot care less to post them because obviously you are in a competition with me. I am not competative. So I admit defeat. You won. Have your reward whatever it is. I'll take my reward :
Please someone, hit me on the head with a saucepan
ninabalarina4 2 years ago
God knew Jeremiah before He created him. That does not mean Jeremiah knew God before Jeremiah was created. Jesus said before Abraham was, I AM. Abraham lived 2000 years before Jesus was born. The only thing that Jesus could have meant by the statement that He made, is I AM God. Before Abraham existed, I existed, because I AM God who alway has existed. We generally know most everything about what we are going to build, before we build it. God knows all about what He is going to create.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Note: camest forth out of the womb. That means, before he was born into the mortal world. How could Jeremiah be sanctified and ordained a prophet, if he didn't exist? He did exist. I can't believe that other Christians in this world can't comprehend a pre-mortal exisitence... or a life after this one, where we can acutally be married. What is the whole point of marriage and families in this life, if not to practice for the next. We may as well all be gay then.
Nappaljarri1 2 years ago
..the Bible is only trusted as far as it translated correctly! Mormons do not hold strong to the Bible as they do to bofm. The BIBLE is the word of GOD. The bofm is a fairytale that this monster claims it to be. The only thing that supports the bofm is the bofm. Joseph Smith took everything that Jesus did and twisted it. Jesus says there is no marriage in the after life, Smith says not only are there marriages there are polygamist marriages. LYING PIGS
YAAUFA 2 years ago
We must remember that our enemy is not the Mormon people though, it is the spiritual forces of wickedness in high places that are manipulating the Mormon people with their lies, that we are at war with. Ephesians 6:12. Satans first approach with Eve in the garden of Eden was to cause her to doubt the word of God. It is no surprise that this tactic is continuing to be used today, by those bringing another gospel, which is not another, Galatians 1:6-10 also 1 Timothy 4:1 & 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Comment removed
Nappaljarri1 2 years ago
I'm not trying to attack the Mormon people. I am only trying to expose the lies that the Mormon faith is founded upon. The reason I focus a lot on Mormons, is because I was one for most of my life, and nearly all of my biological family still are Mormons. The Arabs need saved to. But I do not know many of them, and I don't really relate to them very easily. You are probably very close with your numbers, but God cares about each of them, and we must also.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
I removed my comment as it could be construed as insighting "hate crimes".....LOL... even though that is not what I meant.
Still why bother? Even if your family is still members, I don't understand the craving to preach to people that don't want to listen?
Nappaljarri1 2 years ago
I know that isn't what you really meant. I just thought that it could be taken wrong. Jesus told us to share the gospel with the entire world, many if not all of us, are very hostile to the gospel message at first. Remember the apostle Paul? who approved of the murder of stephen, and was trying to imprison and punish as many Christians as possible, at the time that God finally broke through to him. Christ was dying for us, while we were enemies of God, and fighting against God. Romans 5:8 etc.
carterfamily8903 2 years ago
Modern Christianity, it seems, cannot even explain the existence of the governmental aspect of the Lord's Church in ancient days. They had prophets, Apostles, Seventies, teachers, evangelists, baptism by EMERSION, laying on of hands, etc, etc. But most mainstream Christian Churches don't even come close to such a correct system, claiming that accepting Christ is the only requirement to get into heaven. I've had interesting conversations with Born Agains, Baptists, etc. Very interesting.
CORPSEINTRON 2 years ago
Such attackers, even the ones who claim to be expressing God's love for their 'decieved' brothers and sisters, will find they don't truly follow the Christ as they claim. Such people, the kingdom of heaven doesn't need in its borders. It's sad, indeed, but I know the direction I'm going, due to my own experiences and practical application in my own life. No anti will ever take that away from me, even if they killed me. They only condemn themselves before God.
CORPSEINTRON 2 years ago 4
Well said!
jeraboo29 2 years ago
It's interesting to note that so-called intellectuals who 'disprove' the Book of Mormon, have not seriously sought after the truth of it, relying upon the studies and philosophies of man, rather than the wisdom of God. The Bible, itself, cannot be proven through physical means completely. I've studied both, and I know, without doubt, The Book of Mormon is true. Those who fight against it and the Lord's Church, will, to their utter horror, find their souls lost at the Day of Judgement.
CORPSEINTRON 2 years ago 3
Holland isn't railing against the weak ex-Mormons who apostatized at all. The converts to the LDS Church worldwide outweigh the apostate members who leave, hands down. Such anti-Mormon 'testimony' from unbiased 'schollars' wasn't in persuit of the truth. Even those confederate Apostles in the earlier Church were mislead in their criticisms. Expositor WAS anti-Mormon, and yes, filled with lies. We know that many were forced at gun point to bear false testimony as well in that era.
CORPSEINTRON 2 years ago
But yeah... i respect your commitment to keeping your heads in the sand.
amynar 2 years ago
Continuing to believe in mormonism by protecting yourself from information and villainizing the people who make that information available is basically like continuing to believe the world is flat and blaming Galileo for finding out it isn't.
Its just lame.
amynar 2 years ago
Oh Amy, just because one does not apply certain sciences to something and believes because of a totally different method of truth seaching, does not make that person lame. On the contrar, if the Mormon church were compared to world population numbers, we would be in the Galeleo catagory, dear.
Nappaljarri1 2 years ago
I believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. The spirit that is felt when the Bible is read is felt when the Book of Mormon is read.
Jesus is the Christ and he loves us all equally. His church is on the earth today.
I personally have trouble interpreting scripture. It is very complex, so I am grateful to have apostles of Christ bring clarity and application to scripture.
Jbizquik 2 years ago
When I had my crisis of faith, my initial reaction was exactly like Hollands talk. Eventually I realized that people in all religions have similar spiritual experiences, but they cannot all be true.
Even if you have a genuine spiritual experience, it does not mean that everything that you believe is true, or that your belief system is superior to all others.
Holland is reacting to the large number of people leaving, and they are leaving because of the evidence. The facts are against him.
slvjm1 2 years ago
I see the creepy "crawlers" have come out of the woodwork. Never fails. "Stone of stumbling", and "rock of offense" anyone?
canadianbacon007 2 years ago 2
The only "rock of offense", in this case, is this speech. It's quite harsh, and an open attack on tens of thousands of ex-members. However, since the speech is riddled with fallacies, Hollands points are not very important, what's noteworthy is his tone and choice of words.
stengevarsel 2 years ago
This is how the Gospel is to be preached. With the sound of a trumpet. This is the way the gospel was preached in the days of Orson Pratt, Parley P. Pratt, Brigham Young...even Joseph Smith preached with such boldness. That is what angered people. Truth was so boldly but before them, with the simplicity that even a child can understand it. The wicked could not handle it. Reading through the comments of this, they still can't handle the truth.
captmoroniRM 2 years ago
Invariably, the first to get (one's) hackles up, when it comes to fallacy, are the biggest offenders themselves, when it comes to parroting fallacious propaganda. The double standard is the "brand" of all those who choose the path you are on. Sadly and "pathetically", it can't be helped. I invite you to now "crawl" back into the woodwork you came out of.
canadianbacon007 2 years ago
Canadianbacon, you are my hero. (btw this is Mike from SPAM).
captmoroniRM 2 years ago
Hey Mike, nice to see you making the rounds. Read your piece on SPAM, enjoyed it very much, nj. :D.
canadianbacon007 2 years ago