@nighthawk818: I agree there's a difference between surgeons differing about 1 patient and arguments about a plane full of people, but I'm not sure why I should find that comforting. In any event, I was really referring to the posts on all these videos; I'm disturbed about how certain everyone is about the proper procedures, and how vehemently they disagree.
@mulgrum Not really. At a doctor's convention, you'd hear discussion there, but patients aren't dying left and right. There's a saying that if you put 4 pilots in a room, you'll get 5 opinions--6 if one's a CFI. I've dealt with plenty of controllers who were jerks like in this video, but for every 1 story like that, I've got a dozen of controllers who were excellent. Listen to Liveatc dot net for a while to see that. The most dangerous part of any flight is the drive to the airport.
This controller has too much to say. All he had to do was tell Jet Blue to increase speed to ....whatever.
I've heard JFK controllers have attitude and make things look hard, while at Heathrow an equivalent amount of traffic is handled smoothly and professionally, even with a lot of the pilots speaking English as a second language.
Ah, big no no. He said " one nineteen decimal one" which isn't allowed. You have to say "one one nine decimal one." Sorry my instructor gets pissed off at me when i say it like it hahaha
The JetBlue pilot maintained correct action for most of the video, the controller was acting like he was looking for a fight and the pilot did not provoke him. You should never bring personal attitudes into the workplace, that's a life skill folks. But one wrong thing the pilot said that can be interpreted as being a challenge is when he said "You wanna play a game?" He should have just continued to ask for the speed the controller wanted.
ATC is a dick...sorry. With the approaches around my area 250 would be a max but you can slow the plane down before hand if needed. ESPECIALLY if you did not plan for the approach like they should do while en route, it really helps to slow the plane down way before...especially when you're that close to the airport. Whatever, I've had controllers get upset at me for no reason...
"JetBlue 852, increase speed to two three zero knots, I've got faster traffic 5 miles behind you." That's all. No need to be an ass, turn him around, and re-sequence him.
@hammerogod He could have just said increase spd to 250, not lecture the pilot. And "I could have been on that flight." is the sentence that makes me sick when I hear it. It's the same reason why people believe in God, only to try save their ass.
@hammerogod "And if you can tell me what is wrong with a well developed sense of self-preservation I will send you a Cookie."- the thing is that you blame a pilot who got through all the training for slowing down earlier and saying how you could have been on that plane and get killed is just the same bullshit why people go to church - to save your own ass. You bitch about the pilot being wrong and forget how was for ATC easy to say "250kts plz".
@BorisKnoT I don't need Church to get from one airport to another. Did you read my first post? Can you parse English sentences? I said almost exactly what you are saying. You want an excuse to rant about god and I'm not gonna play. You're mad at god? that's your business. If you want to die in a plane crash go for it! I just hope I am not on that plane. Pilots need to do the fucking job they are being paid to do. ATC just keeps them apart.
The STAR is clearly shown at about 1:19 in. The instructions say "Expect clearance to cross at 11,000 and 250 Kts.", not "Cross at 11,000 and 250 Kts." That one word makes all the difference. "Expect" means it's up to ATC to assign 250 KIAS, not the pilot. The controller should be happy he didn't give the pilot that phone number, because if they were to pull the tapes, the controller would be dinged for the error. You're wrong, nerfhammerogod, and I have no sympathy for you.
@hammerogod "You MSFSX Pilots sure know your stuff."
So do CFI, CFII, and MEIs like me. That's why they pay me to fly and to teach other people to fly. Once they pay me to read every comment you've ever made, then I'll go back and read your VERY FIRST comment.
@nighthawk808 You are either not a pilot or a terrible instrument rated pilot. The "Expect Clearance" means expect to be Cleared for the STAR listed in their flight plan. So when "Cleared" for, lets say, the CAMRN 4 Arrival it is up to the pilot to follow the arrival instructions. That is the whole reason for the STAR so the pilot doesn't have to assign a speed or altitude. You apparently do not know what your are talking about. Now I have no sympathy for you.....
@cpt1radford I'm an actively-instructing CFII. Consult section 5-4-1 of the AIM, which says: "'Expect' altitudes/speeds are not considered STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP procedures crossing restrictions until verbally issued by ATC." There's a difference between "maintain" and "expect". JBU was probably doing 220 because an upstream controller assigned that. In my time dealing with controllers, I've seen them make mistakes, but most of them would have just said, "JBU 852, maintain 260 knots."
ok as much as i can appreciate approach wanting to run things smoothly, he was playing the game...and the last thing you need when flying is tower toying with you as you are busy on your approach!
The arrival says to EXPECT 250. It was not assigned. Controller should have ASSIGNED a speed if he needed it for spacing. End of story. Pilot did nothing wrong.
typical new yorker. the atc must have had a can of that new soda called smartass. in this type of occupation,they need to leave their attitude @ the door
@hourbuilder If they clear you for a Star unless otherwise siad you do the expected crossing restrictions, really they are supposed to tell you to follow the decent profile but at JFK they probably don't bother. It says cross at 250kts, because the TAS on their IFR flight plan is higher they need to stay up there, the controller should have really just said I need you to go faster.
dumb ATC controller, just do your work and shut your mouth further. He is talking bullshit, just assign "at least" 230 and let the pilots do their work. Smartass..
I'm not an ATC, and I don't know much about them. I just enjoy listening to conversations between ATCs and pilots, but even I know that this ATC is wrong.
I can guarantee you that the pilots filed a report on this guy once they landed. What are they gonna do, get into a shouting match right there on the frequency? No. They are going to diffuse the situation until they set the parking brake. Then watch out. They were right in asking him what speed he wanted to assign. He was wrong for threatening them with a long vector to landing if they didn't speed up. He was creating a distracting hostile radio conversation.
@TracyAndersonFoxhunt naaaah, the controller came in with attitude as soon as they said 220. all he had to do is say i need at least 230 right then, and would have got it a lot sooner too.
@jesusfreak0818 yeah, ok, i agree. i listened to it again, but it sure is a turn-off to me when the pilot came back with a hostile response when he said "you wanna play games?"
@TracyAndersonFoxhunt I'm not sure if he was the one with the attitude. If ATC is that busy in trying to run the operation as smoothly and efficiently as he says he would not have spent as much time with his sarcastic dissertation. I hear this and then Boston John at Logan, and I think a friendly and professional demeanor goes a long way in taking away any potential threats of mishaps.
I guess that the ATC's rudeness was just a little too much
The pilot took the responsability that he was maybe at a wrong speed and asked for a speed from ATC and this guy just went beserk and spent time on the mic instead of giving a speed
I guess it was right the coment he did later about the plates to approach JFK but the comment about running over other guy was WAY too much
No, as a busy controller, you want to have pilots listen to you. One 15 second chewing out of a pilot, and you bet your ass every pilot is going to listen to instructions, and fly the approach properly. Controller was fully in the right here.
"i'm trying to run the traffic effectively and smoothly into kennedy airport...." is this kind of time that he just shouldnt take on the frequency and, if that's not enough to you, it's unprofesional. I was totally with him when he quoted the approach plates because he proves the pilot that he was not doing his job, but everything else just makes me feel the same way jetblue pilot felt..... playing games with this guy
I've heard a few pow-wows on the RT but that's the strongest. Not the end of the world, everyone has the odd moment of irrational behaviour. Interesting to hear it though.
i agree with you dponesz, but u gotta say that ATC'er was kind of being an asshole and he just could of simply advised him of the correct procedure and there would have been no unnecessary arguing
what the pilot did wrong was he crossed CAMRN below 250 kts where it clearly states on the STAR that you are to maintain 250 kts or greater crossing CAMRN unless otherwise instructed.
so he was 10 knots slower.... without being told what to do. You fly what your FMX says is a good decent speed. Approach plates don't have speeds on them, for whoever said that. What if you get a plane that can't do 220 knots?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
A bunch of no life's here... okay you can't go past 250 BELOW 10,000 feet. And I don't understand what the controllers problem is, he says "assign a speed sir" And controller get's pissed "I can give you a number to call..etc." what the hell, i know that the damn airspace is crowded but still, the airplane behind could go around a little. And you flight sim asshole's and virtual airline fags who think your so realistic shut your damn mouths.
a no life right here got pissed off at a few comments on youtube and lost his cool. u EXPECT everyone making a comment to know everything, or else you get offended. Try a chill pill.
I don't know, that pilot did exactly what he was told to right away... the atc gave him crap... but the pilot just kept askin "what speed do you want me at?" that pilot did what he could to make things easy... the atc created the drama...
ATC is wrong, and being a pilot I'm probably biased. The chart says to "expect" a clearance of 250kts 11000'....pilot is right, ATC should have asigned a speed.
No he is incorrect, he is to fly the chart as published unless the controller gives him a difference speed or altitude. Now what you seem to be doing is taking the meaning of expect too literally
Wrong again. There is no such thing as "taking the meaning of 'expect' too literally." The word EXPECT is self-explanatory - it is not a clearance or a speed assignment. If the controller noticed his separation decreasing, he could have assigned a hard airspeed for the pilot to follow. Instead he decided to waste time on the radio with an irrelevant and arrogant rant instead of doing his job professionally.
On an unrelated note - I miss our old Lear 31. Man, that thing used to climb like no one's business! Although, Naples to Teterboro was sometimes a nail- biter (range wise). Do you have the extended range tanks on your 31?
No. While of course I would always love to have more fuel on that plane, I can't imagine why anyone would get the 31ER - the baggage space is even worse. We have the trunk locker and that is a real help as well. I agree it climbs like a raped ape!
Man, I remember when passengers would show up with two SUV's full of luggage with the 31ER and my blood would run cold! We pulled off some amazing feats in packing - all while still staying legal and not blocking the aisle or the exits. The 35 was much better - bigger cargo space behind the divan. Then I flew the 55 - even more space. Then I started flying the Citation CJ3 and it was like heaven! All the cargo space in the world! (for a light jet anyway). Do you fly 135? Air Ambulance?
@ryanzee95 Sorry thats wrong. The charts say to 'expect' the speeds, and they do this in order to plan your decent. If it says 250 and your doing 280 and ATC asks you to slow, you're now in a position where you need to lose height and speed and this isn't easy. If the chart says expect a clearance and you don't get one- it is an ATC cock up and not the problem of the pilot- sorry it's true.
@ryanzee95 I'd be interested in your opinion on the clearance limit point on each star. Now based on the fact that you should "expect' the clearance before the limit, are you telling me you should continue the approach even without one.
FIRST THING IS FIRST- DOES IT NOT STRIKE YOU AS ODD THIS VIDEO STARTS WITH THE ATC AT KENNEDY ASKING THE PILOT THE SPEED HE'S DOING???? HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW ??? OH, YOU DIDN'T ASSIGN A SPEED !!
@hourbuilder atc this pilots going to slow in a normal aproach , so hes wrong not the atc, pilots can only deviate from atc commands iff 1 there is no way hes going to make it to the airport (hudsonchrash) or the given orders will jeperdise the souls on board, none of these things where happening , so pilot needed to turjn and slow down so he could lineup again, bieng cockie like he was not only putting him self in danger but also peeps on ground and other traffic, still think pilot was right
@dogsofwarclan hey- you clearly aren't a pilot. An expected clearance is different from a direct clearance. An expected clearance is there to aid a pilot for decent planning as you descend at a slower rate when you are flying slower. Therefore based on the fact the ATC had to ask the speed the pilot was flying, he obviously didn't assign a speed. ATC is there to aid pilots not the other way around.
@hourbuilder If Washington center had told the pilot "Descend via the CAMRN4 arrival" (which the almost always do) then the pilot would have been wrong.
This controller was standard for JFK, a wiseass. If he needed a speed of "At least 230" and Jetblue was doing 220, he was within the 10 knot window anyways. The flight was past CAMRN intersection, and the crew probably started slowing for the approach a little early. No matter, all the controller should have said when the pilot said "220" is: "I need at least 230 please" He would have gotten 250 in about 10 seconds.
What you must understand is that JFK receives flights from ALL over the world and there are pilots who just choose to make life hell for these controllers. The chart calls for 250knots and he told him at 230 because he was about to slow him down anyway for the visual approach. He should've resequenced him and had the aircraft behind him who was actually flying the procedure correctly go in front of the JBU852 jet.
Wrong. The chart says "EXPECT to cross at 250 knots." If the procedure called for the pilot to be at that speed, it would have said "CROSS at 250 knots." This is not a case of the pilot flying a procedure wrong - it's a case of a controller poorly monitoring his sequencing and then using aggression to cover for his error. This should have been handled much more professionally and without the extraneous radio transmissions.
@mercruiser1234 so slowing down in a 3nm distance qeu is safe. dont think so. u all think in pilot terms, 1 fucking plane, their are more on aproach and atc has to handle them all. if one ahole thinks he can do something else even iff its standart can cause the loss of life of a whole lot of people. i know kennedy aproach and its one of the busiest of the world
Passive-aggressive wasps meet over-aggressive wops hahaha -- Pilot bluffs, atc calls, settling an old score
Not for nothin' -- Phrase meaning "what I'm about to say is important." Generally said as "Not f'nuthin', but...."
NYC/East Coast slang of the caucasian working class (particularly Italians) eg, "Not for nothing, but your mom has the best rack I've seen in years" Old Italian expression non per niente meaning not that I have anything to gain by it
The controller is an idiot for bringing up the chart note. The arrival plate says "EXPECT" to cross at 250 kts. Unless given the crossing limitation, you can fly at 300 kts for all it matters. This differs with other arrivals/departures that instruct you to "CROSS AT 230 kts" in which you MUST cross at the given speed unless given the instruction "speed restriction deleted," etc.
Got this from the FAA (email) reply: "Expect is not a clearance so you would not execute the 'expect' instruction unless actually instructed. If you lose radio contact then you would follow the 'expect' instruction without a clearance. If you're in that position, you could always query the controller for the descent.
In the airline world, ATC is usually very good at issuing instructions which coincide with the 'expect' instructions on an arrival." Therefore, you are right!
Yeah, it has almost always been the case where ATC will instruct us to cross as it appears on the chart. Sometimes they may forget, though, which is where you may want to query them.
The controller should have just assigned an airspeed. I'm sure the pilot would have complied without being ridiculed. The last thing you want during the approach is a big distraction like that.
Not that you would know, but good luck getting a day off working at a busy facility like this. Six day weeks are the norm with 2 hours of last minute "hold over" for staffing shortage / traffic delays just compound the fatigue. I've recently seen 11 weeks in a row with overtime here in TX and that's prob not the most
controller was within in his rights. but he could have just ask jbu to speed up . then pilot also was an idiot sayin "you wanna play a game" .if i were the controller i would have given him a number to call
Bad day or not, there's too many controllers like this in America with laid back attitudes towards controlling standards.. the amount of pilots that train in America and come back to the UK for checkouts that have bad atc manner is ridiculous.
Fair enough, the Jet blue pilot didn't follow his STAR properly and he's in the wrong for that, but an ATCer shouldn't have the attitude that guy displayed.
that is correct! every bad atc one ive seen has been american.... ok they have a stressful job but it dusnt excuse this, when controllers get stressed, mistakes will occur, therefore he should keep it professional and not fuk about like this
attitude?... ATC controls The airspace If you cant follow A air traffic CONTROLLERS command then please just stop flying. im sure we all follow our law or the laws that COps enforce. so please dont be a dumb ass and make dumb ass comments
yeah dude i know u "idiot" however this situation is for a landing now im not sure if u r dumb or just spastic but dude its a landig requirement that a pilot follows an atc instructions look i dont know where u fly maybe north korea buddy but in the US if you are comming in too fast and request by ATC to slow you SLOW okai "idoit"
Jet blue was at 220 and the controller, after 3 requests, finally assigned a speed of "at least 230". 10 knots seems like a lot to get upset about. It has been my experience that NY controllers do their job extremely well. They're under great pressure and manage a lot of traffic with what little they have. They have always worked with me regarding the little stuff. Granted, I wouldn't expect the crew of an airliner to stray from an airspeed, but the controller was obviously having a tough day.
yea i dont the pilot or controller is at fault, for seperation the pilot shouldn't be slowed already, however the controllers phraseologies were a nightmare: "what speed are you at?" dont remember seeing that in the ICAO standards
I agree. The controller should have said, JB... you shoult be at 250 kts, not telling him to do a 180 and the faster guy behind him ...ect. The controller was a prick, and he does sound familiar. New York is full of pricks like that, that's why I moved out of that dump city.
1. The FAA provides those plates for a reason...and I can imagine having to deal with a pilot who disregards approach plates carrying humans and other cargo is frustrating...
2. Airline pilots should know better.
3. If you are a pilot, you know that ATC are generally pricks anyways.
4. I'm sure this guy was having a real bad day (guessing from one of the other clips in which he's dealing with idiots)
I on the other hand support the controller. The pilot should readily accept the controllers instructions. Not ask if he wants to play games. Had he just asked how he could resolve it first, there would have been probably 15-20 seconds more time where he would have been making the correction. The pilot made himself like a cocky overzealous newbie that should still be sitting shotgun, IMHO.
Listen to it again.The controller did not give him instructions, he just asked the pilot what is his speed. Then he just said he'll turn him 180...put him behind the other guy. Finally after he told the pilot what speed to speed up to(after the pilot asked repedadly "what speed do you need sir")a few seconds later he told the pilot to slow down now. He was just being a pirck. The pilot probably knows the approach like tha back of his hand, and knew he'll be slowing down in 2 or 3 minutes.
One point is that THAT JB pilot will always fly that approach at the assigned speed in the future. Another point is information is given on approach info for what reason? Yeah - so you actually READ it and FOLLOW it. Then the controllers don't spend their time telling you all you should be doing. It's called standardization; and it keeps the flying public SAFE. Read and follow, it's that simple. If the pilot would have observed and followed, there would be NO anger.
The pilot may well have NOT mad an error. The plate says 'expect'....which means it has to be *assigned* by the controller. It is advisory...not regulatory. If the approach controller didn't give him the crossing speed, it isn't the pilot's fault.
Any decent controller would have just told them to watch their speed when the problem was noticed and confirm they are holding the desired approach speed.
This is just americans taking the piss as usuall. Peace to the jet blue pilot who was calm throughout. Guy in the tower needs to go back to training school to learn how to handle situations. The guy wastes 40 seconds till he assigns him a speed which means their distance appart closes by 1.4nmls.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Im a controller, I dont care if hurt someones feelings over the frequency. Im going to be as big an asshol3 as possible. there is no greater lesson than a permenant emotional scar.
read the charts....the charts say assigned speed 250 kts unless otherwise assigned until approach clearance, the pilots should have known that because they should have read the charts
I do agree though he should have handled it more professionally but I can see his frustration. These are Jet Blue pilots who probably fly into JFK all the time seeing how its their hub, and thus should be used to the arrival procedures at JFK.
Read it again. It says "EXPECT clearance to cross" at 11,000 and 250 knots, which means the controller has to explicitly state to the pilot to cross at that Altitude/Speed. We don't know what was said before CAMRN so we can only speculate. Nonetheless, this controller needs to get laid. In fact all of NY ATC need to get laid on a daily basis. It should be an FAA requirement.
They are calm and composed, but when pilots don't follow their perscribed arrival charts, there's problems. They expect each a/c over camrn and lendy at 250k. It's called flow control. The pilot can't just slow down at his own free will.
@nighthawk818: I agree there's a difference between surgeons differing about 1 patient and arguments about a plane full of people, but I'm not sure why I should find that comforting. In any event, I was really referring to the posts on all these videos; I'm disturbed about how certain everyone is about the proper procedures, and how vehemently they disagree.
mulgrum 3 weeks ago
Heard this guy a couple times before, he's got a lot of stress. Can't blame him for losing his marbles occasionally.
ThreeProphets 4 weeks ago in playlist More videos from aldo0815
To clarify, the commenters can't seem to agree on what any of the rules are. It's a miracle any of us arrive in one piece.
mulgrum 1 month ago
@mulgrum Not really. At a doctor's convention, you'd hear discussion there, but patients aren't dying left and right. There's a saying that if you put 4 pilots in a room, you'll get 5 opinions--6 if one's a CFI. I've dealt with plenty of controllers who were jerks like in this video, but for every 1 story like that, I've got a dozen of controllers who were excellent. Listen to Liveatc dot net for a while to see that. The most dangerous part of any flight is the drive to the airport.
nighthawk808 1 month ago
It seems like pilots, controllers, etc. argue over every aviation video. Pretty scary to us passengers.
mulgrum 1 month ago
This controller has too much to say. All he had to do was tell Jet Blue to increase speed to ....whatever.
I've heard JFK controllers have attitude and make things look hard, while at Heathrow an equivalent amount of traffic is handled smoothly and professionally, even with a lot of the pilots speaking English as a second language.
Ronglimeng 3 months ago
always kennedy controllers, bunch of tards, the pilot asked for airspeed assignment not a speech.
Nicshooter 3 months ago
Ah, big no no. He said " one nineteen decimal one" which isn't allowed. You have to say "one one nine decimal one." Sorry my instructor gets pissed off at me when i say it like it hahaha
thestig747 6 months ago
just... assign... the... speed, DAMMIT!!!!!
recacon3 6 months ago
The JetBlue pilot maintained correct action for most of the video, the controller was acting like he was looking for a fight and the pilot did not provoke him. You should never bring personal attitudes into the workplace, that's a life skill folks. But one wrong thing the pilot said that can be interpreted as being a challenge is when he said "You wanna play a game?" He should have just continued to ask for the speed the controller wanted.
oilersman95 7 months ago
STFU and assign a speed instead of just bitching.
737FSPilot 8 months ago 4
Yeah...ATC should have assigned a speed when asked.
But...the approach speeds are CLEARLY defined and documented.
The Pilots are responsible for knowing this data.
It was a matter of ATC being "Right" no matter what.
That is why they call it Air Traffic CONTROL.
If I were in the Tower I would have re-sequenced the schmuck Pilot.
hammerogod 8 months ago
it doesnt matter who is in the right and who is the wrong, instead of getting all pissy, atc should have just told him to go 230 or more, period.
darkagent442 9 months ago
ATC is a dick...sorry. With the approaches around my area 250 would be a max but you can slow the plane down before hand if needed. ESPECIALLY if you did not plan for the approach like they should do while en route, it really helps to slow the plane down way before...especially when you're that close to the airport. Whatever, I've had controllers get upset at me for no reason...
5150dhbiker 10 months ago
"JetBlue 852, increase speed to two three zero knots, I've got faster traffic 5 miles behind you." That's all. No need to be an ass, turn him around, and re-sequence him.
Vincentvuoto 10 months ago
LOL our Jetblue pilots are always calm with ATC no matter what. =P The ATC guy looked like a fool if u tell me.
jodecci 10 months ago
why couldnt he just request a speed? rather than do the rubbish attitude?
josephiles 11 months ago
Wow ATC. Nice job being a total shit box.
mpoho2000 11 months ago 2
@mpoho2000
Heh...
Would you feel that way if you knew another aircraft was about 1 minute away from smacking you in the ass?
Unless the Pilot declares an emergency or asks for special handling the approach speeds are firm unless otherwise directed by ATC.
The JetBlue Pilot was WAY below the documented approach speed.
And...the Pilot argued with ATC for no reason other than to cover his ass.
No sympathy...I could have been on that flight.
hammerogod 8 months ago
@hammerogod ATC was being a dick. All he had to say is "JB852 bump speed to 250 for traffic separation." Problem solved. No games needed.
mpoho2000 8 months ago
@mpoho2000
In a perfect world............
hammerogod 8 months ago
@hammerogod He could have just said increase spd to 250, not lecture the pilot. And "I could have been on that flight." is the sentence that makes me sick when I hear it. It's the same reason why people believe in God, only to try save their ass.
BorisKnoT 8 months ago
@BorisKnoT
What, exactly, are you talking about?
Is your Medication not working?
What does God have to do with proper knowledge of the rules regarding Published Approach Speeds?
And if you can tell me what is wrong with a well developed sense of self-preservation I will send you a Cookie.
I said what I had to say.
And I was absolutely right.
Now piss off !
hammerogod 8 months ago
@hammerogod "And if you can tell me what is wrong with a well developed sense of self-preservation I will send you a Cookie."- the thing is that you blame a pilot who got through all the training for slowing down earlier and saying how you could have been on that plane and get killed is just the same bullshit why people go to church - to save your own ass. You bitch about the pilot being wrong and forget how was for ATC easy to say "250kts plz".
BorisKnoT 8 months ago
hammerogod 8 months ago
@hammerogod I really don't know why I reply to you when you are trolling everyone...
BorisKnoT 8 months ago
@BorisKnoT
Odd...I was just thinking the same thing about you.
If there is a Troll here it HAS to be you.
You show your ass every time you post a comment.
I am just giving you a place to vent your bullshit so you don't go out hand actually hurt someone.
If You stay in the house and rant...the world will be a safer place.
hammerogod 8 months ago
@BorisKnoT
Heh...
If this Pilot is so well trained why was he so far below the posted approach speed?
Wise up numbnuts.
We all gotta fly.
ATC can't be responsible for every loser Pilot who thinks he is the only airborne motherfucker trying to get to the tarmac.
All ATC can do is try to keep the losers from killing the other people up there with them.
hammerogod 8 months ago
@hammerogod
The STAR is clearly shown at about 1:19 in. The instructions say "Expect clearance to cross at 11,000 and 250 Kts.", not "Cross at 11,000 and 250 Kts." That one word makes all the difference. "Expect" means it's up to ATC to assign 250 KIAS, not the pilot. The controller should be happy he didn't give the pilot that phone number, because if they were to pull the tapes, the controller would be dinged for the error. You're wrong, nerfhammerogod, and I have no sympathy for you.
nighthawk808 7 months ago
@nighthawk808
My VERY FIRST comment was..and I quote:
..."Yeah...ATC should have assigned a speed when asked."...
You MSFSX Pilots sure know your stuff.
hammerogod 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hammerogod "You MSFSX Pilots sure know your stuff."
So do CFI, CFII, and MEIs like me. That's why they pay me to fly and to teach other people to fly. Once they pay me to read every comment you've ever made, then I'll go back and read your VERY FIRST comment.
nighthawk808 2 months ago
@nighthawk808 You are either not a pilot or a terrible instrument rated pilot. The "Expect Clearance" means expect to be Cleared for the STAR listed in their flight plan. So when "Cleared" for, lets say, the CAMRN 4 Arrival it is up to the pilot to follow the arrival instructions. That is the whole reason for the STAR so the pilot doesn't have to assign a speed or altitude. You apparently do not know what your are talking about. Now I have no sympathy for you.....
cpt1radford 1 month ago
@cpt1radford I'm an actively-instructing CFII. Consult section 5-4-1 of the AIM, which says: "'Expect' altitudes/speeds are not considered STAR/RNAV STAR/FMSP procedures crossing restrictions until verbally issued by ATC." There's a difference between "maintain" and "expect". JBU was probably doing 220 because an upstream controller assigned that. In my time dealing with controllers, I've seen them make mistakes, but most of them would have just said, "JBU 852, maintain 260 knots."
nighthawk808 1 month ago
"Not less than 180 knots".. yeah that is "please don't crash where you are, you can crash on the runway if you want"
isilder 1 year ago 3
@isilder What was that supposed to mean?
BorisKnoT 11 months ago
Is this real or Virtual?
PilotYMML 1 year ago
@PilotYMML Real
CathayGuy 1 year ago
ok as much as i can appreciate approach wanting to run things smoothly, he was playing the game...and the last thing you need when flying is tower toying with you as you are busy on your approach!
jeremypenuta 1 year ago
The arrival says to EXPECT 250. It was not assigned. Controller should have ASSIGNED a speed if he needed it for spacing. End of story. Pilot did nothing wrong.
robflys 1 year ago
peh...I would have gotten the number to call and complained to this jerk's boss.
skysnet 1 year ago
Man i hate people like this guy, they give us New Yorkers a bad name sometimes >.<
arnoldyanez13 1 year ago
what a pussy
landmark425 1 year ago
THAT CONTROLLER IS AN ASSHOLE, HE SHOULD HAVE ASSIGNED AN AIRSPEED
mandrakeiv 1 year ago
typical new yorker. the atc must have had a can of that new soda called smartass. in this type of occupation,they need to leave their attitude @ the door
alnilam66 1 year ago
what an asshole...
flyingtoaster13 1 year ago
The controller was a complete jerk. It was all completely unnecessary. The pilot said nothing wrong.
nocalsteve 1 year ago
@hourbuilder If they clear you for a Star unless otherwise siad you do the expected crossing restrictions, really they are supposed to tell you to follow the decent profile but at JFK they probably don't bother. It says cross at 250kts, because the TAS on their IFR flight plan is higher they need to stay up there, the controller should have really just said I need you to go faster.
fdsajklj 1 year ago
What is Zulab? And something else, what is "Report outer marker"?
SoloNetherlands 1 year ago
@SoloNetherlands Zulab is a FIX, a point on the map. Outer marker is a device placed on the path that makes a funny sound when you fly above it ;)
DelfinoDelphis 1 year ago
dumb ATC controller, just do your work and shut your mouth further. He is talking bullshit, just assign "at least" 230 and let the pilots do their work. Smartass..
abir113975 1 year ago
What a schmuck. Not professional. ATC needs to keep it strictly business.
Mitch
mitchblack 1 year ago
I'm not an ATC, and I don't know much about them. I just enjoy listening to conversations between ATCs and pilots, but even I know that this ATC is wrong.
simon8tsai 1 year ago
I can guarantee you that the pilots filed a report on this guy once they landed. What are they gonna do, get into a shouting match right there on the frequency? No. They are going to diffuse the situation until they set the parking brake. Then watch out. They were right in asking him what speed he wanted to assign. He was wrong for threatening them with a long vector to landing if they didn't speed up. He was creating a distracting hostile radio conversation.
JetMechMA 1 year ago
this time the controller was right. that pilot had an attitude
TracyAndersonFoxhunt 1 year ago
@TracyAndersonFoxhunt naaaah, the controller came in with attitude as soon as they said 220. all he had to do is say i need at least 230 right then, and would have got it a lot sooner too.
jesusfreak0818 1 year ago
@jesusfreak0818 yeah, ok, i agree. i listened to it again, but it sure is a turn-off to me when the pilot came back with a hostile response when he said "you wanna play games?"
TracyAndersonFoxhunt 1 year ago
@TracyAndersonFoxhunt yeah, they were both pretty childish....
jesusfreak0818 1 year ago
don't mouth off to ATC
fdsajklj 1 year ago
@fdsajklj yeah, i love to fly, but i can't stand a pilot with an attitude
TracyAndersonFoxhunt 1 year ago
@TracyAndersonFoxhunt I'm not sure if he was the one with the attitude. If ATC is that busy in trying to run the operation as smoothly and efficiently as he says he would not have spent as much time with his sarcastic dissertation. I hear this and then Boston John at Logan, and I think a friendly and professional demeanor goes a long way in taking away any potential threats of mishaps.
cagepondroad 1 year ago
what a stupid controller
straighttailpilot 1 year ago
yeah this time the controller was dead wrong! Somebody is gonna hurt him one day
richsolomon1 1 year ago
I'm a pilot, but I crashed and died last year, so I have no opinion.
TracyAndersonFoxhunt 1 year ago
Let us not forget, that if there were no pilots doing 220, the controllers would have no job. Pilots are their customers...
SOUTHERNheavy 1 year ago
Busy controller but he could have said to speed up to what ever speed needed to maintain sequence.
thresher4 1 year ago
THAT FLIGHT CONTROLLER DRIVES ME CRAZY. FEEL LIKE CRACKING HIS BIG HEAD. pilot was soo cool what do you need SIR ????
hkangave 1 year ago
I guess we all have bad days at work from time to time.
mancrushonhanksnow 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
did the Jetblue died?
haha joke xD
I hate this died comments ^^
Best and funniest controller in JFK
Nackduck 1 year ago
@resny0 yea VID:190881
aldo0815 2 years ago
I guess that the ATC's rudeness was just a little too much
The pilot took the responsability that he was maybe at a wrong speed and asked for a speed from ATC and this guy just went beserk and spent time on the mic instead of giving a speed
I guess it was right the coment he did later about the plates to approach JFK but the comment about running over other guy was WAY too much
daspidrr 2 years ago 9
My sentiments exactly, couldn't have put it any better.
cagepondroad 1 year ago
@daspidrr
No, as a busy controller, you want to have pilots listen to you. One 15 second chewing out of a pilot, and you bet your ass every pilot is going to listen to instructions, and fly the approach properly. Controller was fully in the right here.
cmdrnmartin 1 year ago
not with you, mr.
"i'm trying to run the traffic effectively and smoothly into kennedy airport...." is this kind of time that he just shouldnt take on the frequency and, if that's not enough to you, it's unprofesional. I was totally with him when he quoted the approach plates because he proves the pilot that he was not doing his job, but everything else just makes me feel the same way jetblue pilot felt..... playing games with this guy
daspidrr 1 year ago
One of these days this ATC's unprofessional behaviour is going to result in an accident and all of this is going to come back to haunt him.
leicam6 2 years ago
I've heard a few pow-wows on the RT but that's the strongest. Not the end of the world, everyone has the odd moment of irrational behaviour. Interesting to hear it though.
cedarjet707 2 years ago
i hate that threat...."i gotta number i can give you" just hate it
LaZyLuKe25 2 years ago
lol I don't even get it
wompasdub 2 years ago
they say it to threaten pilot to get them in trouble, they give u a number to call and u get in trouble basically.
LaZyLuKe25 2 years ago
Is this the happy controller from the other clip? Sounds less happy in this one.
Xcalibur18 2 years ago
i agree with you dponesz, but u gotta say that ATC'er was kind of being an asshole and he just could of simply advised him of the correct procedure and there would have been no unnecessary arguing
fattony166 2 years ago
man I would punch that asshole through the mike. that guy was a complete doucher
FlyingPhoAddict 2 years ago
what the pilot did wrong was he crossed CAMRN below 250 kts where it clearly states on the STAR that you are to maintain 250 kts or greater crossing CAMRN unless otherwise instructed.
dponesz 2 years ago 4
EXPECT is different than CROSS!!!
davidsholem 2 years ago
I've been flying the Lear into Kennedy for years. I've always received the best of treatment. Always courteous and professional.
JC10255 2 years ago
so he was 10 knots slower.... without being told what to do. You fly what your FMX says is a good decent speed. Approach plates don't have speeds on them, for whoever said that. What if you get a plane that can't do 220 knots?
d0rkiishchris 2 years ago 2
its FMS and if you cant do 220 kts you shouldn't be trying to fly into JFK
N9602FL 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
A bunch of no life's here... okay you can't go past 250 BELOW 10,000 feet. And I don't understand what the controllers problem is, he says "assign a speed sir" And controller get's pissed "I can give you a number to call..etc." what the hell, i know that the damn airspace is crowded but still, the airplane behind could go around a little. And you flight sim asshole's and virtual airline fags who think your so realistic shut your damn mouths.
poopsyproductions 2 years ago
a no life right here got pissed off at a few comments on youtube and lost his cool. u EXPECT everyone making a comment to know everything, or else you get offended. Try a chill pill.
Amypr1ncess 2 years ago
Thanks for the month old reply. I can see you can't resist getting your word in there. Thanks though by the way for everyone giving -6.
poopsyproductions 2 years ago
you got a life in the last 2 months?
(couldnt resist again)
Amypr1ncess 2 years ago
I don't know, that pilot did exactly what he was told to right away... the atc gave him crap... but the pilot just kept askin "what speed do you want me at?" that pilot did what he could to make things easy... the atc created the drama...
Limehammers 2 years ago 3
I agree..the controller didn't have to add all those remarks and get all pissed off..just assign the pilot a frikin speed!
je14100 2 years ago 3
For those of you saying the Pilot is an ass, you do not know what he was or was not told by the previous controller, so don't ASSume anything.
meRyanP 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
zfreak90 2 years ago
what did the pilot do wrong? he asked for a speed because he accepted the fact that he was at the wrong speed.
d0rkiishchris 2 years ago
Ya. Sounds like the controller was having a bad day.
bweazel 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
pilot of 852 is an ahole 100%
pdxpilot06 2 years ago
ATC is wrong, and being a pilot I'm probably biased. The chart says to "expect" a clearance of 250kts 11000'....pilot is right, ATC should have asigned a speed.
hourbuilder 2 years ago 22
No he is incorrect, he is to fly the chart as published unless the controller gives him a difference speed or altitude. Now what you seem to be doing is taking the meaning of expect too literally
AAL558 2 years ago
Wrong again. There is no such thing as "taking the meaning of 'expect' too literally." The word EXPECT is self-explanatory - it is not a clearance or a speed assignment. If the controller noticed his separation decreasing, he could have assigned a hard airspeed for the pilot to follow. Instead he decided to waste time on the radio with an irrelevant and arrogant rant instead of doing his job professionally.
Learjet31Pilot 2 years ago 3
On an unrelated note - I miss our old Lear 31. Man, that thing used to climb like no one's business! Although, Naples to Teterboro was sometimes a nail- biter (range wise). Do you have the extended range tanks on your 31?
JC10255 2 years ago
No. While of course I would always love to have more fuel on that plane, I can't imagine why anyone would get the 31ER - the baggage space is even worse. We have the trunk locker and that is a real help as well. I agree it climbs like a raped ape!
Learjet31Pilot 2 years ago
Man, I remember when passengers would show up with two SUV's full of luggage with the 31ER and my blood would run cold! We pulled off some amazing feats in packing - all while still staying legal and not blocking the aisle or the exits. The 35 was much better - bigger cargo space behind the divan. Then I flew the 55 - even more space. Then I started flying the Citation CJ3 and it was like heaven! All the cargo space in the world! (for a light jet anyway). Do you fly 135? Air Ambulance?
JC10255 2 years ago
@hourbuilder hehe how many knots in a foot? go metric!
ballm0use 1 year ago
@hourbuilder Yeah but when are generally flying a STAR, you usually fly according to the "expected" clearances anyways.
ryanzee95 1 year ago
@ryanzee95 Sorry thats wrong. The charts say to 'expect' the speeds, and they do this in order to plan your decent. If it says 250 and your doing 280 and ATC asks you to slow, you're now in a position where you need to lose height and speed and this isn't easy. If the chart says expect a clearance and you don't get one- it is an ATC cock up and not the problem of the pilot- sorry it's true.
hourbuilder 1 year ago
@ryanzee95 I'd be interested in your opinion on the clearance limit point on each star. Now based on the fact that you should "expect' the clearance before the limit, are you telling me you should continue the approach even without one.
FIRST THING IS FIRST- DOES IT NOT STRIKE YOU AS ODD THIS VIDEO STARTS WITH THE ATC AT KENNEDY ASKING THE PILOT THE SPEED HE'S DOING???? HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW ??? OH, YOU DIDN'T ASSIGN A SPEED !!
hourbuilder 1 year ago
@hourbuilder atc this pilots going to slow in a normal aproach , so hes wrong not the atc, pilots can only deviate from atc commands iff 1 there is no way hes going to make it to the airport (hudsonchrash) or the given orders will jeperdise the souls on board, none of these things where happening , so pilot needed to turjn and slow down so he could lineup again, bieng cockie like he was not only putting him self in danger but also peeps on ground and other traffic, still think pilot was right
dogsofwarclan 1 year ago
@dogsofwarclan hey- you clearly aren't a pilot. An expected clearance is different from a direct clearance. An expected clearance is there to aid a pilot for decent planning as you descend at a slower rate when you are flying slower. Therefore based on the fact the ATC had to ask the speed the pilot was flying, he obviously didn't assign a speed. ATC is there to aid pilots not the other way around.
hourbuilder 1 year ago
@hourbuilder If Washington center had told the pilot "Descend via the CAMRN4 arrival" (which the almost always do) then the pilot would have been wrong.
JumpStartation 8 months ago
This controller was standard for JFK, a wiseass. If he needed a speed of "At least 230" and Jetblue was doing 220, he was within the 10 knot window anyways. The flight was past CAMRN intersection, and the crew probably started slowing for the approach a little early. No matter, all the controller should have said when the pilot said "220" is: "I need at least 230 please" He would have gotten 250 in about 10 seconds.
mercruiser1234 2 years ago 18
What you must understand is that JFK receives flights from ALL over the world and there are pilots who just choose to make life hell for these controllers. The chart calls for 250knots and he told him at 230 because he was about to slow him down anyway for the visual approach. He should've resequenced him and had the aircraft behind him who was actually flying the procedure correctly go in front of the JBU852 jet.
AAL558 2 years ago
Wrong. The chart says "EXPECT to cross at 250 knots." If the procedure called for the pilot to be at that speed, it would have said "CROSS at 250 knots." This is not a case of the pilot flying a procedure wrong - it's a case of a controller poorly monitoring his sequencing and then using aggression to cover for his error. This should have been handled much more professionally and without the extraneous radio transmissions.
Learjet31Pilot 2 years ago 11
@Learjet31Pilot
...and there is the clincher!!
cat22planes 3 months ago
@mercruiser1234 so slowing down in a 3nm distance qeu is safe. dont think so. u all think in pilot terms, 1 fucking plane, their are more on aproach and atc has to handle them all. if one ahole thinks he can do something else even iff its standart can cause the loss of life of a whole lot of people. i know kennedy aproach and its one of the busiest of the world
dogsofwarclan 1 year ago
yes there is but and thats what was depicted on the approach chart so thats what the controller would have rightly expected
debiassi 2 years ago
Excellent controller!
Zoxxxon 2 years ago
Hey Aldo, your videos rock! Thanks dude for taking the job of making all these videos and for sharing them. Keep on posting!
juampinir 2 years ago
Is there not a 250knot speed limit below 10.000 feet?
mplays 2 years ago
yes, But usally ATC Allow Aircraft to desend faster then 250 knots at bigger airports that have more traffic.
Boeing757basher07 2 years ago
250kt below 10000' is only in Class D and lower....A,B and C can do more only if ATC approve!
hourbuilder 2 years ago
Nice way to distract the pilot during final approach. Very unprofessional ATC
donnafpct 2 years ago 2
I hope the controller was reprimanded after this event.
mikeb172sp 2 years ago
Passive-aggressive wasps meet over-aggressive wops hahaha -- Pilot bluffs, atc calls, settling an old score
Not for nothin' -- Phrase meaning "what I'm about to say is important." Generally said as "Not f'nuthin', but...."
NYC/East Coast slang of the caucasian working class (particularly Italians) eg, "Not for nothing, but your mom has the best rack I've seen in years" Old Italian expression non per niente meaning not that I have anything to gain by it
Jantelover 2 years ago
All the guys that go into JFK know the approach speeds.....the pilot knew he as was slow..a wise guy.
dergrossen 2 years ago
The controller is an idiot for bringing up the chart note. The arrival plate says "EXPECT" to cross at 250 kts. Unless given the crossing limitation, you can fly at 300 kts for all it matters. This differs with other arrivals/departures that instruct you to "CROSS AT 230 kts" in which you MUST cross at the given speed unless given the instruction "speed restriction deleted," etc.
angelfuree 2 years ago
Got this from the FAA (email) reply: "Expect is not a clearance so you would not execute the 'expect' instruction unless actually instructed. If you lose radio contact then you would follow the 'expect' instruction without a clearance. If you're in that position, you could always query the controller for the descent.
In the airline world, ATC is usually very good at issuing instructions which coincide with the 'expect' instructions on an arrival." Therefore, you are right!
dave0mary 2 years ago
Yeah, it has almost always been the case where ATC will instruct us to cross as it appears on the chart. Sometimes they may forget, though, which is where you may want to query them.
angelfuree 2 years ago
The controller should have just assigned an airspeed. I'm sure the pilot would have complied without being ridiculed. The last thing you want during the approach is a big distraction like that.
despain76 2 years ago 3
What does he mean by "i can give you a number to call" .. to call who and why ?
andreytz2oo7 2 years ago
Call the facility I think.
smartboy4 2 years ago
Comment removed
mercruiser1234 2 years ago
God, this ATC is worse than the anna nicole smith judge. STFU with your life story and just assign an air speed already!
gobo760 2 years ago 5
Look at the arrival.
Southerncowboyz 2 years ago
come again?
gobo760 2 years ago
if u guys have noticed......
most stressful and funny and chaotic atc conversations are in the jfk arrival and departure stream.
why? jfk is the busiest airport in the world? i tot that's heathrow?
abangjohnny 2 years ago
JFK isn't that busy. It gets real busy "pushes" at predictable times, but at other times, it is a real ghost town.
killingamps 2 years ago
True.... but during the "peaks" it does get busy real busy...
CustomsCBP 2 years ago
well the busiest airport in the world is chicago and the third is heathrow. no idea of the second one
OSCARA320 2 years ago
actually atlanta hartsfield jackson international airport is the busiest in the world by far.
frequentairbusflyer8 2 years ago
why always this funny, and crazy things happen with jfk atc?
dva511 2 years ago
Not that you would know, but good luck getting a day off working at a busy facility like this. Six day weeks are the norm with 2 hours of last minute "hold over" for staffing shortage / traffic delays just compound the fatigue. I've recently seen 11 weeks in a row with overtime here in TX and that's prob not the most
grx007 2 years ago
controller was within in his rights. but he could have just ask jbu to speed up . then pilot also was an idiot sayin "you wanna play a game" .if i were the controller i would have given him a number to call
jonny2387 2 years ago
Bad day or not, there's too many controllers like this in America with laid back attitudes towards controlling standards.. the amount of pilots that train in America and come back to the UK for checkouts that have bad atc manner is ridiculous.
Fair enough, the Jet blue pilot didn't follow his STAR properly and he's in the wrong for that, but an ATCer shouldn't have the attitude that guy displayed.
diddyo 3 years ago 2
that is correct! every bad atc one ive seen has been american.... ok they have a stressful job but it dusnt excuse this, when controllers get stressed, mistakes will occur, therefore he should keep it professional and not fuk about like this
rudyyoungblood2223 2 years ago
attitude?... ATC controls The airspace If you cant follow A air traffic CONTROLLERS command then please just stop flying. im sure we all follow our law or the laws that COps enforce. so please dont be a dumb ass and make dumb ass comments
dbh2percent 2 years ago
You're an idiot. Pilots actually have the final say to how the aircraft is operated.
MGXsport 2 years ago
yeah dude i know u "idiot" however this situation is for a landing now im not sure if u r dumb or just spastic but dude its a landig requirement that a pilot follows an atc instructions look i dont know where u fly maybe north korea buddy but in the US if you are comming in too fast and request by ATC to slow you SLOW okai "idoit"
dbh2percent 2 years ago 2
I fly into the same airspace. 91.3 read it
MGXsport 2 years ago
Jet blue was at 220 and the controller, after 3 requests, finally assigned a speed of "at least 230". 10 knots seems like a lot to get upset about. It has been my experience that NY controllers do their job extremely well. They're under great pressure and manage a lot of traffic with what little they have. They have always worked with me regarding the little stuff. Granted, I wouldn't expect the crew of an airliner to stray from an airspeed, but the controller was obviously having a tough day.
PacelliA 3 years ago
yea i dont the pilot or controller is at fault, for seperation the pilot shouldn't be slowed already, however the controllers phraseologies were a nightmare: "what speed are you at?" dont remember seeing that in the ICAO standards
djwoodhouse 3 years ago
I agree. The controller should have said, JB... you shoult be at 250 kts, not telling him to do a 180 and the faster guy behind him ...ect. The controller was a prick, and he does sound familiar. New York is full of pricks like that, that's why I moved out of that dump city.
plsniper 3 years ago
I dunno, I can see where ATC is coming from...
1. The FAA provides those plates for a reason...and I can imagine having to deal with a pilot who disregards approach plates carrying humans and other cargo is frustrating...
2. Airline pilots should know better.
3. If you are a pilot, you know that ATC are generally pricks anyways.
4. I'm sure this guy was having a real bad day (guessing from one of the other clips in which he's dealing with idiots)
darkcrimson23 3 years ago
I on the other hand support the controller. The pilot should readily accept the controllers instructions. Not ask if he wants to play games. Had he just asked how he could resolve it first, there would have been probably 15-20 seconds more time where he would have been making the correction. The pilot made himself like a cocky overzealous newbie that should still be sitting shotgun, IMHO.
j5p332 3 years ago
Listen to it again.The controller did not give him instructions, he just asked the pilot what is his speed. Then he just said he'll turn him 180...put him behind the other guy. Finally after he told the pilot what speed to speed up to(after the pilot asked repedadly "what speed do you need sir")a few seconds later he told the pilot to slow down now. He was just being a pirck. The pilot probably knows the approach like tha back of his hand, and knew he'll be slowing down in 2 or 3 minutes.
plsniper 3 years ago 2
One point is that THAT JB pilot will always fly that approach at the assigned speed in the future. Another point is information is given on approach info for what reason? Yeah - so you actually READ it and FOLLOW it. Then the controllers don't spend their time telling you all you should be doing. It's called standardization; and it keeps the flying public SAFE. Read and follow, it's that simple. If the pilot would have observed and followed, there would be NO anger.
dave0mary 3 years ago
That controller had i guess no time for shit . . . in all my years behind the stick ive never heard a controller sound that angry
N44949 3 years ago
This sounds like the same controller in the "Happy Controller" clip.
venividibitchy 3 years ago
New York, New York
heyeveryoneimcool 3 years ago
Yes the pilot made an error. All the controller had to say "jet Blue maintain 250 knots" end of story. The controller was a prick.
SurfCityKahuna 3 years ago 5
The pilot may well have NOT mad an error. The plate says 'expect'....which means it has to be *assigned* by the controller. It is advisory...not regulatory. If the approach controller didn't give him the crossing speed, it isn't the pilot's fault.
crdorr 3 years ago 6
Probably the Jetblue pilot had a bad encounter with that same ATC before that's why he replied "wanna play a game"?
abeamarra 3 years ago
Any decent controller would have just told them to watch their speed when the problem was noticed and confirm they are holding the desired approach speed.
This is just americans taking the piss as usuall. Peace to the jet blue pilot who was calm throughout. Guy in the tower needs to go back to training school to learn how to handle situations. The guy wastes 40 seconds till he assigns him a speed which means their distance appart closes by 1.4nmls.
TheSignificantOther 3 years ago 6
you wanna play games???????
Jacobdead 3 years ago
Is this guy the happy air traffic controller from the other vid? They sound the same.
Xcalibur18 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Im a controller, I dont care if hurt someones feelings over the frequency. Im going to be as big an asshol3 as possible. there is no greater lesson than a permenant emotional scar.
sigmet25 3 years ago
read the charts....the charts say assigned speed 250 kts unless otherwise assigned until approach clearance, the pilots should have known that because they should have read the charts
I do agree though he should have handled it more professionally but I can see his frustration. These are Jet Blue pilots who probably fly into JFK all the time seeing how its their hub, and thus should be used to the arrival procedures at JFK.
JRuss185 3 years ago
Read it again. It says "EXPECT clearance to cross" at 11,000 and 250 knots, which means the controller has to explicitly state to the pilot to cross at that Altitude/Speed. We don't know what was said before CAMRN so we can only speculate. Nonetheless, this controller needs to get laid. In fact all of NY ATC need to get laid on a daily basis. It should be an FAA requirement.
jlip001 3 years ago 5
Very true. But, at JFK there is always a high volume of traffic, you can't fool around when you have an entire flow set up.
Plus, he's a New Yorker, and so am I. That's how we do things lol.
qckslvr 3 years ago
They are calm and composed, but when pilots don't follow their perscribed arrival charts, there's problems. They expect each a/c over camrn and lendy at 250k. It's called flow control. The pilot can't just slow down at his own free will.
qckslvr 3 years ago
lol why? I think you need to spend two hours at the tower at JFK during rush hour.
qckslvr 3 years ago 3
Ignorance at its finest. i.e. metalinc9
qckslvr 3 years ago
Wow! Things got a little heated there did they!
FlyingWing92 3 years ago
Did Jet Blue not reference his Jeppesen? Maybe the controller went a little downtown, but he was right.
scorpdan 3 years ago 2
love the air traffic there
reaperrowledge 3 years ago