ALL U GUYS ARE RETARDED WHO THINK ITS A MURDER. THEY USE THE CELLS THAT ARE IN A TUBE THAT U NEED MICROSCOPE TO SEE THEM. ITS NOWHERE NEAR STARTING A LIFE, YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND ND APPROVE UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO YOU OR YOUR LOVED ONES. THINK ABOUT OTHERS FOR A CHANGE NOT JUST YOUR GREEDY STUPID UNEDUCATED ASS.
The women are being forced into abortion so you can find cures for your desease. I am very angery about the fact that you and other Christians are lying about abortion and Fetal stem cell treatment. You are the ones killing to get your cure.
It's a good thing those embryos are going in the trash, that way Michael J. Fox will never be able to sit still agian, and the embryos can serve their purpose, and go on to live their life as garbage... wait, that doesn't sound right, oh well, as long as the bible says so.
IVF is not the same as killing a embryo IVF is the fertilisation of a egg outside of the body so I don`t see the parallel. Inorder to help tens of millions of people around the globe we would need to harvest embryos far more than the few hundred thousand Michael was talking about and each embryo would have to be destroyed. However Adult stem cells can be harvested without any harm to anyone and there is a unlimited supply.
After 6 months of offering stem cell therapy in combination with the venous angioplasty liberation procedure, patients of CCSVI Clinic have reported excellent health outcomes. Ms. Kasma Gianopoulos of Athens Greece, who was diagnosed with the Relapsing/Remitting form of MS in 1997 called the combination of treatments a “cure”. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
“I feel I am completely cured” says Ms. Gianopoulos, “my symptoms have disappeared and I have a recovery of many functions, notably my balance and my muscle strength is all coming (back). Even after six months, I feel like there are good changes happening almost every day. Before, my biggest fear was that the changes wouldn’t (hold). I don’t even worry about having a relapse anymore”. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
A group of Canadian patients just back from Noble have reported similar results. “I can actually see what I thought were long-dead muscles forming in my feet” said Larry Vermeersch of Kenora, Ontario. “My balance is back and I’m walking without a cane. I’m a pretty hard guy to convince, but getting these two procedures together has made me a believer. I’m looking forward to the physio ahead because I can feel everything coming back.” Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
A universal benefit reported by every patient has been the recovery of bladder control. Most MS patients have various bladder control symptoms that include urinary urgency, incontinence, nocturia, or urinary hesitancy as a result of the disruption of electrical impulses from the brain to the nerves and muscles that are involved in emptying the bladder (pudenal nerve, urethral sphincter, detrusor muscle). Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
Other recent MS patients who have had Autologous Stem Cell Transplantation (ASCT), or stem cell therapy have posted videos and comments on YouTube v=jFQr2eqm3Cg. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
Dr.Avneesh Gupte, the Neurosurgeon at Noble Hospital performing the procedure has been encouraged by results in Cerebral Palsy patients as well. “We are fortunate to be able to offer the treatment because not every hospital is able to perform these types of transplants.You must have the specialized medical equipment and specially trained doctors and nurses”. Log on to ccsviclinic.ca for more information.
With regard to MS patients, “We are cautious, but nevertheless excited by what patients are telling us. Suffice to say that the few patients who have had the therapy through us are noticing recovery of neuro deficits beyond what the venous angioplasty alone should account for”. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
Dr. Hemangi of Noble continues: “These are early days and certainly all evidence that the combination of liberation and stem cell therapies working together at this point is anecdotal. However I am not aware of other medical facilities in the world that offer the synthesis of both to MS patients on an approved basis and it is indeed a rare opportunity for MS patients to take advantage of a treatment that is quite possibly unique in the world”. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
Autologous stem cell transplantation is a procedure by which blood-forming stem cells are removed, and later injected back into the patient. All stem cells are taken from the patient themselves and cultured for later injection. In the case of a bone marrow transplant, the HSC are typically removed from the Pelvis through a large needle that can reach into the bone. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
The technique is referred to as a bone marrow harvest and is performed under a general anesthesia. The incidence of patients experiencing rejection is rare due to the donor and recipient being the same individual. This remains the only approved method of the SCT therapy. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
Ever squished a worm or a snail? Ever swotted a fly, bee or wasp? That's millions of living cells you killed.
Ever had sex, and ejaculated using protection. That's thousands of living cells you've killed each time.
GET A GRIP PEOPLE! This research will SAVE cells that are in the forms of people. Not cells which had no chance in the first place, which are used in the research!
This is exactly why I want to get into Molecular Genetics and Stem Cell Research....He has a really good point, these cells do get destroyed and wasted so I don't see the problem in using them to further life, instead of wasting them....Essentially the majority of the people are against ESCR because they claim it is anti life...when in fact it is actually pro life...Right on Michael J. Fox, I'm right with you on this...and @smarthandsomeguy, nice comparison dude, you totally pwned that person xD
A developing human is hardly a lab rat. Stop treating it as such. That's the point. No human should be owned and converted into a commodity by a corporation at any stage of its life cycle. Embryos are not magic pixie dust to cure everything. They're just developing young human individuals. They are pretty magical when allowed to develop as walking talking thinking individuals. Known potential>unknown potential. Merry Christmas.
Why? Why not treat a non-sentient cells like lab rats? What is the point? It doesn't have feelings. It's got just as much potential as the insignificant sperm cell, but nothing more. You really need to figure out how to distinguish between a developing human and something that has the potential to become a developing human, because there is a big difference.
I know it's dumb to come back after a week and say I'm done, but oh well. There's no point in continuing this with you.
@Paradox3121 It has already been distinguished as biological fact: a sperm cell has the potential of becoming a developing human(1/2 of it). A human embryo is a living developing human. Period. HAPPY 2011.
"A human embryo is a living developing human. Period."
No, it's not. On of the key defining factors for life is that it can maintain homeostasis. An embryo can not do that. Any fetus that can't survive outside the womb on its own can not do that. Don't say stupid shit when it's obvious you don't know the science.
@KemaTheAtheist You're sort of making my point for me. An embryo is a developing human that cannot survive outside of the uterus, so WHY FORCE IT TO SURVIVE outside of the uterus in pieces as a CORPORATE COMMODITY?
"WHY FORCE IT TO SURVIVE outside of the uterus in pieces as a CORPORATE COMMODITY?"
Because it's just a bunch of cells, and they're efficient to use for research. Why the hell are you giving non-sentient cells the same status as living, sentient humans?
Apparently you don't know the science. Science, specifically biology, has specific rules for what constitutes living things, homeostasis being one of them. A fetus it can't maintain most of the processes needed for homeostasis on its own for that matter for most of the gestation period.
Less than 1% survive if born at 22 weeks. The shortest survival was at 21 weeks 5 days. No baby has survived earlier than that. It's not until 26 weeks at survival is nearly 100%.
If you really want to call a lump of indistinct cells a living human, that's just inane.
Are you one of those people that would rather let the woman die than perform an needed abortion?
@KemaTheAtheist You just don't get it. A stem cell line goes way beyond 26 weeks. A corporation should not have the right to develop a human, in whole, or in part, into maturity. This has nothing to do with a woman carrying her own child. A woman controls the life growing within her. A corporation should not have the same rights.
A LINE. They don't even allow the cells to differentiate. How is that even remotely the same if the stem cells never become anything but stem cells? Do you really think you're making a good argument here that because stem cells are allowed to divide for 26 weeks, that's the same as allowing stem cells to divide and differentiate inside the womb of a woman? Are you kidding?
"A corporation should not have the right to develop a human, in whole, or in part, into maturity."
All I have to say to that is fuck you. For the people that have been cured of certain kinds of blindness thanks to stem cells and for all the kids that will live a full life because stem cells were used to cure their x-linked adrenoleukodystrophy which would have had them dead at puberty.
I'll finish this by saying that if you are a physician that it's sickening that you are. Stem cells have the most potential of any known line of research for curing the most disease, and for you as a physician who is sworn to help the sick, to be against something a close to a miracle as we could hope for is unconscionable.
If you really are a physician, go read your Hippocratic Oath again. You've forgotten it.
@KemaTheAtheist The advancements in stem cell research to date have been with adult stem cells. Induced pleuripotent stem cells also show promise. There's no need to use developing humans(embryos). Actually, I remember my oath very well, and my embryology as well. I'll continue to "do no harm" to any and all humans, and to protect them against the likes of Hitler(experimented on gypsys and jews, calling them "less human"), and now Obama(somehow believes a "spare" developing human is "less human"
Yeah, because experimenting on sentient, conscious beings is the same as an embryo in a petri dish... *rolls eyes* Remind me to never bring my family to you as a doctor. I wouldn't trust you to save my wife if she had an ectopic pregnancy or something because an abortion would destroy the embryo.
"The advancements in stem cell research to date have been with adult stem cells."
Usually after embryonic stem cells are used for studying whatever disease first because adult stem cells are hard to come by and they're hard to culture. They use adult stem cells for the actual cures so the body won't reject the cells. To say all the advancements are due to adult stem cells and not embryonic is asinine. Both were used collectively to produce the results we have today.
"Induced pleuripotent stem cells also show promise."
And they can't be made nearly as quickly and without the same genetic make-up, during research, if they're trying to do something with say micro-arrays for a disease, because of the difference in genetic make-up, they wouldn't be able to tell if the change in results is due to the disease they're studying, or a difference in genetics. That's kind of especially important if the disease being researched is a genetic disease.
@KemaTheAtheist Incorrect(again) An embryo's stem cells ARE differentiated for study and for potential sale. Pancreatic islet cells for diabetics, etc. That's the goal of such research. To make "infant cells" of another human, then sell them. The embryo is a different individual than the recipient. Therefore there is a much HIGHER chance of rejection than there would be from one's own cells derived from skin, etc.
Many favored discrimination and worse a century ago; didn't make it right.
"The embryo is a different individual than the recipient. Therefore there is a much HIGHER chance of rejection than there would be from one's own cells derived from skin, etc."
Which is the reason for the misconception you were promulgating about adult stem cells being the ones that cure disease. Embryonic are used earlier in the studies to get to the point they know what to do with the adult stem cells which are much harder to get in quantity.
Just because the adult stem cells are what are eventually used to apply what we learned doesn't mean that only adult cells are responsible for cures. It requires a lot of work with embryonic cells first.
"Many favored discrimination and worse a century ago; didn't make it right."
Are you seriously suggesting an embryo in a dish is suffering the same as blacks, homosexuals, etc did in the early 1900s?
So you're saying the "inappropriate control" over blacks, homosexuals, women, and other minorities in the past is the same as scientists control over embryos in a petri dish?
@KemaTheAtheist Religious fundamentalists dont care about actual morality and suffering, they care about creating controversy and always going against progression and alleviating suffering. They know that the uneducated masses will support their insane views. Which is why they control so much and get away with so much.
We all want a cure for Michael. One major misunderstanding of embryonic stem cell research is that the embryos are killed. They are NOT killed. They are artificially pulled apart, forced to live on and develop well into maturity, albeit in pieces. One group of humans should not have total power and control over the development of another group of humans, for the expressed intent of converting another human into marketable commodities. That's a 13th amendment violation.
I find that very difficult to believe given your position.
You're one of the assholes who vandalizes testing facilities that do experiments on lab rats, aren't you? Because you come off as pretty fucking naive talking about the feelings of a bunch of microscopic cells and tissues. Get fucking real.
Groups of neurons =/ brain. We're not remotely close enough to be able to create an actual brain this way. And that is another matter entirely anyway.
"They are artificially pulled apart, forced to live on and develop well into maturity, albeit in pieces."
Do you not understand That the cells never differentiate? To say a group of cells that has never been anything but stem cells is "mature" simply because the cell line is a few weeks or months old is stupid. They're no different than the original cell. If they haven't changed, they can't mature.
@KemaTheAtheist Stem cells replicate AND differentiate as they do so, as does the intact embryo. If embryonic stem cells stayed stem cells, they'd be of no use, and you'd only need one embryo, forever. Each embryo's stem cells constitute it's entire body and substance at that stage of its development. Simple embryology. One stem cell line is all cells derived and differentiated from that one human's worth of cells.
"Stem cells replicate AND differentiate as they do so"
Ummm. No. They MIGHT differentiate as they do so IF they have the transcription factors that tell them to do so. If you give them the transcription factors that tell them to just replicate into more undifferentiated stem cells, that's what they'll do.
Michael J Fox is a great man with a loving heart, I agree with everything he says, i am 18 and i look up to him, people often call me Parkinsons girl but i dont let it bother me because i look up to a great person and support his foundation
Michael J. Fox is more likely to be cured if funding is REMOVED from embryonic stem cell research and redirected toward more realistic and more promising research.
Of course! You're a FUCKING GENIUS! Because we never give enough attention and funding to those fields! FUCK!
On the other hand, Stem Cell Research, an extremely promising and more relevant field to genetic disease, needs to have what little attention it gets slashed because dimwitted cocksuckers like you care more about the "sanctity of life" or some bullshit in a microscopic embryo than in an actual fucking human being suffering from a potentially curable disease.
@Paradox3121 Mean spirited AND uneducated, geez. Actually it IS an actual developing human being, but not fucking yet. You pulled it apart before it had ANY fun. That's a biological FACT, taught in med school, not church. Now, ALL diseases are potentially curable. It's how you do it. Go along with the crowd like the nazis did. They labeled Jews ass "less human" and thought that human research would lead to faster cures. 6 million innocent victims later.......
"That's a biological FACT, taught in med school, not church."
They also teach you that a developed brain is where all thoughts and consciousness comes from, which is obviously not present in a fucking embryo. If you think destroying an embryo is equivalent to murder, then kill yourself; your body is producing millions of "developing human beings" all the time in the form of sperm cells.
@Paradox3121 A fully or partially developed brain, or groups of neurons( nerve cells) can be developed in dishes in the corporate lab, in pieces, or in the uterus of a mother, as part of a complete organism. The control and development of those brain parts should be under the control of a mother, not a cell corporation.
By the way, I'm not "mean spirited," I just hate your position on this too much to be civil. Your position is just so fucking insane and stupid. I mean, I can understand the pro-life position... I can sympathize with that. But look at Micheal J. Fox in this video. Now try to imagine millions more in his position. You're trying to take away the research that could end their disability because of an embryo's feelings.
And you're comparing me to Nazi's?! Go die in a fucking fire.
All you need to settle the issue is to imagine Michael J. Fox was your kid. Watch that guy and think if that was your kid what you'd do. You'd do just about anything.
The same lying Atheist con artists who told FOX Stem Cell research would do everything but raise the dead when we haven't seen them discover shit with it are the ones who told us birth control and abortion made sex safe back in the '60s resulting in an AIDS epidemic killing 500 times our KIAs in Vietnam
In reseach it doesn't matter if a possible disease can be cured . A lot of research doesn't give big results even no results but people keep searching for answers instead of throwing it away and stand still in developing improving life. So people should stop saying research is worthless. Also this kind of reseach is worth the time. If there was no research we would be living in the stone age.
@willlovesjennifer so you'd consider protecting embryonic cells heading for incineration (classed as biological waste, let's not forget) something more noble than instead using them as research tools that could potentially save lives in the future? It's hardly killing babies, it's not the 1800s where we'd hack off arms and legs to see how they'd work. An embryonic cell isn't a life, it's a potential for life, the same way a blueprint isn't automatically a building.
@BromiDista Its not life? Is it not growing? Is it not a human embryo? Do you know what life is? If a woman is pregnant she has a child inside of her. That is why you don't hit them in the stomach. You do not know what life is. Ask yourself the question. Is a human embryo a human
@willlovesjennifer No, while it's special and should be respected, it's not a human - It's the blueprints to create one. But regardless of which side of the argument we're on, would you rather these humans were just dumped in a trash can and sent off for incineration as opposed to being used as research tools that could save lives in the future? I know which I would consider more respectful
@BromiDista Blueprints really? You believe that? A human embryo is a blueprint? A human embryo is a human. A small human that is developing. If you stop it you are killing it because it will become a child. Would you also kill a baby because it is not a grown person.
@willlovesjennifer I sincerely believe that. A seed isn't a plant, a blueprint isn't a house, a recipe isn't a cake, etc etc. They all contain information necessary to develop into a finished product. Serious question - Would you consider menstrual cycles or masturbation in the same way? At what point do you think that potential shouldn't be interfered with? That's not to say there shouldn't be an element of respect involved, I definitely agree with that, but yeah.
@BromiDista When the seed is fertilized and starts to grow is it not a plant and no longer just a seed? When the male and female gametes are together and the female one is fertilized it is no longer a gamete. It is an embryo. That is life. A seed on the sidewalk is different than a watered seed in the ground that is growing. If you were to dig that seed out it would die. Just as you take a embryo out and it dies. It is alive and growing. Not a gamete as you have in a menstrual cycle.
@willlovesjennifer But if we're talking about potential life, I can't see a straight up difference between a fertilised egg and an egg that hasn't been fertilised at the stage we're talking about.
Have you seen a blastocyst? Do you actually argue, that a blastocyst is a human being? That's a really silly thing to say. If a blastocyst is a human being, than a fertilized chicken egg is a chicken.
Imagine: The clinic is burning, and you have to decide to save a baby or a basket full of test tubes with fertilized eggs - which do you save?
If you answer: "the baby", you know the difference.
Women who have CHOSEN abortion, all those millions of 'potential life' are simply being destroyed and the cells from IVF being discarded, why do people oppose those cells from being used for useful research that could ease human suffering.
Maybe it isnt guarenteed but even if there is only a small promise, why shouldnt we be persue it??
People that are here, now, ALIVE are SUFFERING U.U
@whiteboie79 >"Why would you not be able to save both?"
Of course, in reality you might be able to save both, or call for help. In real life, there are usually several options.
But this is a thought experiment, deliberately designed to bring a person to making a moral decision between only two options. If it helps you, imagine you have only one arm, and there's nobody around whom you could ask for help.
A famous thought experiment is the "Trolley problem", google it some day.
@whiteboie79 I would save both, and I would use the cells in the test tubes to heal my son's SMA so that he can walk, play sports, and be a normal five year old. Does that make me a murderer?
@cityofchamps2008 Why would that make you a murderer if you aren't killing a baby. If you yourself aborted a baby then of course that would be murder but you probably did not. Don't a jackass and twist my words around. Oh and have fun with your retarded kid.
@whiteboie79 Thats the whole point, I'm not a murderer because I didnt kill anything at all, I simply put the cells to use in a place where they would be more useful than in the trash, where they are currently going. Abortion is not murder , and stem cell research has nothing to do with abortion. I don't really have a son, it was hypothetical, just like i dont really have to choose to save a baby or some cells from a fire, but even if my son had down syndrome he would be less retarded than you.
@cityofchamps2008 You're a complete idiot for thinking I was saying abortion is completely wrong. Again, stop twisting my words around. Actually I have no fucking clue what you are trying to say here. Do you like saying random shit to get yourself mad?
@whiteboie79 did you ever think your the idiot who always accuses people of twisting your words, it's clear that you have trouble expressing your points, when you get owned, you simply say "that's not what I was saying" your exact words: "If you yourself aborted a baby then of course that would be murder but you probably did not" you called abortion murder, some consider murder to be wrong chief. I said abortion has nothing to do with stem cell, nor is it wrong. what do you think your saying.
@cityofchamps2008 Okay, you're obviously a complete idiot. Keep on saying random shit to people that are not even talking about what you are trying to say.
Sure - but that is totally unrelated to the question of stem cell research. With your argumentation, you would have to argue as well, that organ donors are evil.
Tissue for research are taken from embryos that are dead anyway, and so are organs from organ donors.
Obviously, some are. The debate whether we should use their tissue to help others is the EXACT same question as whether we should donate organs or not.
Only a crazy person would suggest to deliberately kill embryos in order to harvest tissue.
@deleukste101 I don't say research is worthless. I say 11 years of research that provide absolutely nothing but dead babies is worthless. Many of the embryos are taken by unnatural abortions. That kills life. This is only hurting people. I am not an idiot. You need to learn what effective research is. If you research something for 11 years and decide the only way it can help is if we make people to harvest for tissue from embryos it is pure evil.
@willlovesjennifer >"provide absolutely nothing but dead babies is worthless"
No babies are harmed to get cells for research - that's utter nonsense and fear mongering! Stem cell research had giant breakthroughs, and is beyond any doubt the foundation of medicine to come.
IPS research is only possible with the knowledge gained by embryonic stem cell research.
Btw: 60+% of all pregnancies lead to natural aborts, in 95% of the cases the woman is not even aware of that.
@smeeesh1 haha. I told you where I got the info. You European atheists really hate babies. Go to wikipedia and look up stem cells. If you don't like that look up cures found from embryonic stem cell research. You know across from you on the north sea the Netherlands supports euthanasia without the patients consent? Shows how much Europe is leading the way.
No we don't support euthanasia without the patients consent.
And last time I checked atheism wasn't about hating babies (or hating anything for that matter). It's about not subscribing to any religion. Most of the hate in these discussions comes from certain religious people that seem to hate atheists. I would never call a religious person names or throw insults their way that are based on nothing.
@0906peter What gives anyone the right to take someone's life? I know that life is meaningless for atheists because life has no meaning for them, but to Christians it does. Embryonic stem cells do not need to be used. They have not cured anything and have been a reason to kill life. The only choice there is is life. Pro-kill is not moral or human.
"I know that life is meaningless for atheists because life has no meaning for them"
That is false. Life does have meaning for atheists, the meaning just doesn't come from any religion. That doesn't mean that it can't come from something else.
Not sure what documentary you saw by the way, can you tell me what the name was so I can look it up? I like to think I am pretty well informed of what goes on in my country and I can assure you we don't just kill our senior citizens.
Involuntary euthanasia is terrible indeed. However, you still have not mentioned any credible source to back up your outlandish claims that this is going on in the Netherlands or any other western country. Googling it doesn't mean anything. You can google any crazy thing and get a website that claims it's true. I'm talking about credible sources. And a catholic tv channel isn't exactly that. You can't even name the documentary, or the people that made the documentary.
I did, but the only stuff I got were some text documents with far fetched godwin comparisons and twisted facts. No actual data from reliable sources or renowned scientists or doctors.
And like I said, you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet, just like you shouldn't get your info from a tv channel with religious bias.
@0906peter They interviewed doctors in Holland and talked to families of victims. Choose to disagree with me, but these are facts. Look up more info on it. In 2003, the year after Holland became the first country in the world to legalize the practice since the fall of Nazi Germany, there were 1,815 reported cases. Isn't it great to follow the Nazis?
FYI, the requirements for euthanasia in the Netherlands are stricter than those in some states in the US where euthanasia is legal. "the patient's request for euthanasia must be voluntary and persist over time (the request cannot be granted when under the influence of others, psychological illness or drugs)
And btw, don't you realize far fetched Nazi comparisons only make you look silly? They sort of disqualify you from a reasonable debate.
@0906peter The truth is silly? I can't help it that the last country that utilized euthanasia before the Netherlands was Nazi Germany. Doctors are supposed to save peoples lives not take them.
Go ahead and ignore the facts I presented about some US states where euthanasia is easier to get than in the Netherlands. And no, the truth is not silly. Not wanting to hear the truth and making far fetched Nazi comparisons is silly. There is no involuntary euthanasia here. NL is not the first country to practice euthanasia since Nazi Germany. And comparing everything that has nothing to do with the involuntary killing of people to the nazi's is silly. Can we be done with this
@0906peter yes it is. Do you think not doing research and talking about a subject makes you know about it? People die from involuntary euthanasia all the time. You also need to understand that stem cells do not all come from embryos. Embryonic have supplied no cures for anything. Go to wikipidia and educate yourself on stem cells.
And indeed, doctors are supposed to help people that need help, some people need stem cells to help them. Don't deny them that because of your beliefs. People are suffering out there.
@0906peter I got that from searching EUTHANASIA IN HOLLAND on Google. It was on EWTN about a month ago. It's scary that they can kill you without your consent.
@willlovesjennifer Saying life has no meaning for atheists is both insulting and ignorant. I derive my meaning from a different place then you do, but that does not mean I don't have one. Embryonic stem cells contain less then 150 cells. It seems that if your concern is with the suffering of an individual, you should be infinitely more concerned about someone living with ALS, spinal cord injury, etc. than with the 140 or so cells used to cure them.
@katowhite Show how embryonic stem cells help people with ALS. It is a fact that there have been 0 cures found from embryonic stem cells. That is called failure. Look it up. Saying it cures ALS is ignorant. Other stem cells can but not embryonic. Read my other comments for information. I don't need to restate everything again.
@willlovesjennifer I didn't mean to imply that cures already exist, but to say that it's a failure because no treatments have been developed yet would be incorrect. We know there is potential because adult stem cells have already produced therapies and embryonic stem cells have several advantages over adult ones. I have read your previous comments and you haven't given a good reason for why we shouldn't pursue that potential.
@willlovesjennifer (ran out of room) Your argument that it's taking a life doesn't hold because like I said before, its less than 150 cells and large numbers of these embryos that are generated by in vitro fertilization are destroyed anyway.
@katowhite They have been trying to find a cure with embryonic stem cells for over 10 years and still have none. Foetal stem cells and stem cells taken from a living person have provided many cures. What you need to learn is that embryonic stem cell research has done nothing for anyone after all this time and shows no promise to unless we use them to create people to kill to take their organs, which is preposterous.
@katowhite So if you get pregnant you don't believe it is a baby so you don't need to assume you will have a child? This is how ignorant it is to say that.
@willlovesjennifer "So if you get pregnant you don't believe it is a baby so you don't need to assume you will have a child?"
Where did I say that? The embryos generated by in vitro fertilization that are being destroyed are not babies and never will be. Why do you have an objection to them being used for research as an alternative to throwing them away? It's been said before but just because no cures have been developed yet doesn't mean they aren't there to be found.
@katowhite I have a problem with killing the innocent. You think that the only embryos used come from miscarriages. That is not the case. Millions of abortions happen every year. 40 million to date. I have a problem with that.
@willlovesjennifer It's not like we're asking to mandate abortions for stem cells, we only want to use the ones that are already going to be destroyed. Like I said before, the embryos used for stem cell research contain less then 150 cells. Compare that to the brain of a fly which has over 100,000 cells and its clear we aren't "killing the innocent" as you put it.
@smeeesh1 I read all your comments and still say the same thing. You are a kid that has no idea what he is talking about and doesn't probably know that there are different sources for stem cells.
By the way, don't change the subject to foetal stem cells, that's not what we're discussing, people like you are an embarrassment to the concept of intelligent debate, check your facts before you state something that simply isn't true, don't quote wikipedia when it doesn't match up, but I guess you figured I wouldn't check it...? I really hope so, if not you might just either blind or really, really mentally challenged, I can't really tell, get back to me on that one please...
By the way, don't change the subject to foetal stem cells, that's not what we're discussing, people like you are an embarrassment to the concept of intelligent debate, check your facts before you state something that simply isn't true, don't quote wikipedia when it doesn't match up, but I guess you figured I wouldn't check it...? I really hope so, if not you might just either blind or really, really mentally challenged, I can't really tell, get back to me on that one please...
By the way, don't change the subject to foetal stem cells, that's not what we're discussing, people like you are an embarrassment to the concept of intelligent debate, check your facts before you state something that simply isn't true, don't quote wikipedia when it doesn't match up, but I guess you figured I wouldn't check it...? I really hope so, if not you might just either blind or really, really mentally challenged, I can't really tell, get back to me on that one please...
@willlovesjennifer The "quote" explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies all showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
@willlovesjennifer The "quote" explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies ALL showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
Hey, guys, stem cell research is good - give it some time. Somethings gonna happen thatll change everything and theres a huge chance itll involve stem cell research.
Embryonic stem cell research is a joke that needs to end. All the other forms seem to be ok as long as you aren't killing someone to get them. But embryonic stem cells haven't cured anything. They have only given people an excuse to kill more innocent babies.
@willlovesjennifer If you had the time to actually do some research, you would have known that stem cell research is the reason why survivors of brain cancer aren't blind, with the use of stem cells they are able to create new optic fibers, and transplant them into the lymbatic nerve, you incompetent, moronic fuck. Before you post gibberish, do some research before you embarrass yourself further. Stop acting so immature, and grow the fuck up. No babies are killed, they are already dead, grow up!
@smeeesh1 blah blah blah cuss cuss cuss... Do some research on embryonic research genius. It has no cures for anything. And to get an embryo you have to kill a baby. Stem cells can come from living people or dead fetuses and thats fine. As long as the baby wasn't killed to get the fetus or the person wasn't killed to get stem cells. Stem cells from both dead fetuses and people have cured all sorts of ailments but embryonic stem cell research has only killed babies.
@willlovesjennifer No, embryonic stem cell research comes from newly deceased babies, ergo, no babies have been killed by the "evil medical industry...". Do your research before you embarrass yourself, and by the way, read up on embryonic stem cell research on wikipedia, it has caused breakthroughs in multiple compartments adjuctant to the medical industry, stop acting so immature, you're entitled to your own opinion, you're not entitled to your own facts..
@smeeesh1 Wrong. That is Foetal stem cells. They have helped. Embryonic have no approved treatments after 11 years of research. Do some research yourself. Look at it on Wikipedia. Look up stem cell. Its not hard to learn before you babble on about something that is completely false.
@willlovesjennifer You continue to baffle me, I have said nothing about foetal stem cells, they don't really concern me seeing as we're talking about EMBRYONIC stem cells, ad hominem much...? "Clonal cell lines are created by growing up a single cell. Evans and Kaufman showed that the cells grown out from these cultures could form teratomas and embryoid bodies, and differentiate in vitro, which all indicate the cells are pluripotent." You're entitled to your own opinion, not you're own facts!
@willlovesjennifer The "quote" explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies ALL showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
@willlovesjennifer@willlovesjennifer The "quote" explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies ALL showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
@willlovesjennifer The "quote" explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies ALL showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
@willlovesjennifer The quote explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies ALL showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
@willlovesjennifer The reason why I am so upset by your statement, is because you don't even have simple facts correct, you pretend to have competence in this matter, but seeing the info in your comments, it saddens me, it really does... If you don't have a basic understanding of embryonic stem cell research, don't act like you do, go read some articles, whatever, just don't pretend to have competence on a subject you have clearly no idea what you're talking about, that's borderline hypocrisy...
@willlovesjennifer I have stated this before, but in case you can't read that well, or simply said "TL;DR...", I'l make it easier and more "user friendly" if you like. The "embryo" of a newly deceased baby is extracted and put to grow in a petri dish of choice (*depends of what kind of cells you wish to grow, optic, muscle, tissue, marrow...*), and it is set to grow using a set variety of biomechanical compositions, ergo, no babies have been or will be killed, was that understandable...?
@smeeesh1 You call me all these names and don't know that stem cells can come from different sources. Grow up and think about stuff before you make yourself look like an idiot.
@willlovesjennifer "Grow up and think about stuff before you make yourself look like an idiot..." That's a quote from you by the way, you don't have an answer for my argument, so you insult me...? Me thinks you need to grow up and start taking your medication...
@willlovesjennifer By the way, those babies that you claim were "killed" by the medical industry, that's just plain lying coming from you, and you tell me I need to do my research...? Those babies died from natural causes (*aborted babies, premature birth, latent birth, etc, etc...*) they were not killed by anyone, except by the simple fact that their lungs failed because they were not developed yet, no one killed anyone, you need to do your research, this is an important subject.
@willlovesjennifer This IS a touchy subject, and you can argue that it's not respectful for the babies that their cells are being used for research, rather than buried with the child. But how would you feel if you struggled with a disease like Parkinsons, Alzheimers, Huntingtons, multiple sclerosis or any of the other muscle applicated disease that is out there, would you let that research go to waste, simple burying something that might save the lives of tens of millions of people, would you..?
Spare embryos are no less human. They're not pixie dust, they're just developing humans. Funding conventional research will more likely result in a more rapid cure. We all wish Michael and all patients the very best .
RinnEgade - I'm sorry but you must not understand that embryonic stem cells have the ability to morph into any other cell. That is why they are so powerful. The coding will be changed overtime so they can work and they will help people eventually once you realize how powerful these are
@gacc41 Twelve years since the first ESC was isolated. And what is there to show for all the money spent, all the research that has been accomplished?
.
What was that? NOTHING. Billions upon Billions of Dollars spent and there has been no positive results. Now that's a really great waste of research money. Money that could have been put into ASCR.
They can theorize all they like it doesn't change the truth. Embryonic stem cells won't work properly because they lack the coding necessary to actually produce anything. Adult stem cells work because the coding is there.
And to the followers of "harvest of embryonic stem cells": If you had been decomposed at few cells stage of development, you wouldn't be writing anything now...
And this from 2009 should end the debate about disassembling human children for production of stem cells: this article describes methods of acquisition of stem cells from human skin -they are your body cells clones. Cell Stem Cell. 2009 Jun 5;4(6):472-6. Epub 2009 May 28.Generation of human induced pluripotent stem cells by direct delivery of reprogramming proteins.Kim D, Kim CH, Moon JI, Chung YG, Chang MY, Han BS, Ko S, Yang E, Cha KY, Lanza R, Kim KS. Harvard Medical School
So there we are not dealing with "potential" of an embryo to develop into human, because this suggest statistical interpretation, as if it could develop different species, but with 1/0 confidence that this is meant to give a new human. And indeed at that stage the one cell is really equal to all human organism, even if it seems amazing.
Science in simple words is about how things works. In this case how human body works. Results of newest research allow us to obtain stem cells from our own body, without the need for destruction of someone else's organism.
That should be extremely clear: human cell with complete genome that entered the state
of embryogenesis WILL produce entire body.
That characteristic differs that cell from all other cells of our bodies that also have complete copy of genome.
ALSO THEY SUPPORT BUILDING WEAPONS THAT KILL MILLIONS OFFPEOPLE ALL AROUND THE WORLD.
vidiLABUDA 1 week ago
ALL U GUYS ARE RETARDED WHO THINK ITS A MURDER. THEY USE THE CELLS THAT ARE IN A TUBE THAT U NEED MICROSCOPE TO SEE THEM. ITS NOWHERE NEAR STARTING A LIFE, YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND ND APPROVE UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO YOU OR YOUR LOVED ONES. THINK ABOUT OTHERS FOR A CHANGE NOT JUST YOUR GREEDY STUPID UNEDUCATED ASS.
vidiLABUDA 1 week ago
@vidiLABUDA it is... life starts at an embyro according to the catholic church.
Nihadkeso 2 days ago
The women are being forced into abortion so you can find cures for your desease. I am very angery about the fact that you and other Christians are lying about abortion and Fetal stem cell treatment. You are the ones killing to get your cure.
gloriatalksabortion 1 month ago
There's no point in arguing. Everyone has a right to their own opinion.
AzizaCelina 1 month ago
It's a good thing those embryos are going in the trash, that way Michael J. Fox will never be able to sit still agian, and the embryos can serve their purpose, and go on to live their life as garbage... wait, that doesn't sound right, oh well, as long as the bible says so.
cityofchamps2008 2 months ago
IVF is not the same as killing a embryo IVF is the fertilisation of a egg outside of the body so I don`t see the parallel. Inorder to help tens of millions of people around the globe we would need to harvest embryos far more than the few hundred thousand Michael was talking about and each embryo would have to be destroyed. However Adult stem cells can be harvested without any harm to anyone and there is a unlimited supply.
FeignofCordor 3 months ago
I'm for stem cell research
KlayyJayy 3 months ago
I admire that he did this. He not only went, but he showed the world what parkinson's can make someone become.
dudeitoastedthedog 6 months ago
poor Michael j. i had no idea he'd got that bad.
pcjwss 7 months ago
@pcjwss He said he doesn't want pity
KlayyJayy 3 months ago
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After 6 months of offering stem cell therapy in combination with the venous angioplasty liberation procedure, patients of CCSVI Clinic have reported excellent health outcomes. Ms. Kasma Gianopoulos of Athens Greece, who was diagnosed with the Relapsing/Remitting form of MS in 1997 called the combination of treatments a “cure”. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
robert80taylor 7 months ago
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“I feel I am completely cured” says Ms. Gianopoulos, “my symptoms have disappeared and I have a recovery of many functions, notably my balance and my muscle strength is all coming (back). Even after six months, I feel like there are good changes happening almost every day. Before, my biggest fear was that the changes wouldn’t (hold). I don’t even worry about having a relapse anymore”. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
robert80taylor 7 months ago
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A group of Canadian patients just back from Noble have reported similar results. “I can actually see what I thought were long-dead muscles forming in my feet” said Larry Vermeersch of Kenora, Ontario. “My balance is back and I’m walking without a cane. I’m a pretty hard guy to convince, but getting these two procedures together has made me a believer. I’m looking forward to the physio ahead because I can feel everything coming back.” Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
robert80taylor 7 months ago
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A universal benefit reported by every patient has been the recovery of bladder control. Most MS patients have various bladder control symptoms that include urinary urgency, incontinence, nocturia, or urinary hesitancy as a result of the disruption of electrical impulses from the brain to the nerves and muscles that are involved in emptying the bladder (pudenal nerve, urethral sphincter, detrusor muscle). Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
robert80taylor 7 months ago
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Other recent MS patients who have had Autologous Stem Cell Transplantation (ASCT), or stem cell therapy have posted videos and comments on YouTube v=jFQr2eqm3Cg. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
robert80taylor 7 months ago
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Dr.Avneesh Gupte, the Neurosurgeon at Noble Hospital performing the procedure has been encouraged by results in Cerebral Palsy patients as well. “We are fortunate to be able to offer the treatment because not every hospital is able to perform these types of transplants.You must have the specialized medical equipment and specially trained doctors and nurses”. Log on to ccsviclinic.ca for more information.
robert80taylor 7 months ago
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With regard to MS patients, “We are cautious, but nevertheless excited by what patients are telling us. Suffice to say that the few patients who have had the therapy through us are noticing recovery of neuro deficits beyond what the venous angioplasty alone should account for”. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
robert80taylor 7 months ago
Dr. Hemangi of Noble continues: “These are early days and certainly all evidence that the combination of liberation and stem cell therapies working together at this point is anecdotal. However I am not aware of other medical facilities in the world that offer the synthesis of both to MS patients on an approved basis and it is indeed a rare opportunity for MS patients to take advantage of a treatment that is quite possibly unique in the world”. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
robert80taylor 7 months ago
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Autologous stem cell transplantation is a procedure by which blood-forming stem cells are removed, and later injected back into the patient. All stem cells are taken from the patient themselves and cultured for later injection. In the case of a bone marrow transplant, the HSC are typically removed from the Pelvis through a large needle that can reach into the bone. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
robert80taylor 7 months ago
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The technique is referred to as a bone marrow harvest and is performed under a general anesthesia. The incidence of patients experiencing rejection is rare due to the donor and recipient being the same individual. This remains the only approved method of the SCT therapy. Log on to ccsviclinic. ca for more information.
robert80taylor 7 months ago
If your against the research listen to this.
Ever squished a worm or a snail? Ever swotted a fly, bee or wasp? That's millions of living cells you killed.
Ever had sex, and ejaculated using protection. That's thousands of living cells you've killed each time.
GET A GRIP PEOPLE! This research will SAVE cells that are in the forms of people. Not cells which had no chance in the first place, which are used in the research!
www501stlegioncouk 7 months ago
This is exactly why I want to get into Molecular Genetics and Stem Cell Research....He has a really good point, these cells do get destroyed and wasted so I don't see the problem in using them to further life, instead of wasting them....Essentially the majority of the people are against ESCR because they claim it is anti life...when in fact it is actually pro life...Right on Michael J. Fox, I'm right with you on this...and @smarthandsomeguy, nice comparison dude, you totally pwned that person xD
niecey101 10 months ago
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@Nivixy
"It hurts so much to see that science is STILL so oppressed by religion..."
What hurts anymore is that they try to claim science proves religion.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@Nivixy
Completely agree
giselle21able 1 year ago
I fully agree with Michael J. Fox. The embryos are going to die, scientists should use them to help others live.
hermanoguzman 1 year ago
@hermanoguzman So you believe that death row inmates are game for scientists to experiment on as well? They're going to die as well, right.? Well?
oran6es 1 year ago
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@oran6es
"So you believe that death row inmates are game for scientists to experiment on as well? They're going to die as well, right.? Well?"
Hmmm... Sentient humans... None sentient group of non-descript cells...
You're an idiot.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
A developing human is hardly a lab rat. Stop treating it as such. That's the point. No human should be owned and converted into a commodity by a corporation at any stage of its life cycle. Embryos are not magic pixie dust to cure everything. They're just developing young human individuals. They are pretty magical when allowed to develop as walking talking thinking individuals. Known potential>unknown potential. Merry Christmas.
oran6es 1 year ago
@oran6es
Why? Why not treat a non-sentient cells like lab rats? What is the point? It doesn't have feelings. It's got just as much potential as the insignificant sperm cell, but nothing more. You really need to figure out how to distinguish between a developing human and something that has the potential to become a developing human, because there is a big difference.
I know it's dumb to come back after a week and say I'm done, but oh well. There's no point in continuing this with you.
Paradox3121 1 year ago
@Paradox3121 It has already been distinguished as biological fact: a sperm cell has the potential of becoming a developing human(1/2 of it). A human embryo is a living developing human. Period. HAPPY 2011.
oran6es 1 year ago
@oran6es
"A human embryo is a living developing human. Period."
No, it's not. On of the key defining factors for life is that it can maintain homeostasis. An embryo can not do that. Any fetus that can't survive outside the womb on its own can not do that. Don't say stupid shit when it's obvious you don't know the science.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@KemaTheAtheist You're sort of making my point for me. An embryo is a developing human that cannot survive outside of the uterus, so WHY FORCE IT TO SURVIVE outside of the uterus in pieces as a CORPORATE COMMODITY?
oran6es 11 months ago
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@oran6es
"WHY FORCE IT TO SURVIVE outside of the uterus in pieces as a CORPORATE COMMODITY?"
Because it's just a bunch of cells, and they're efficient to use for research. Why the hell are you giving non-sentient cells the same status as living, sentient humans?
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@KemaTheAtheist .......and as a physician I'm pretty sure I know the science.
oran6es 11 months ago
@oran6es
Apparently you don't know the science. Science, specifically biology, has specific rules for what constitutes living things, homeostasis being one of them. A fetus it can't maintain most of the processes needed for homeostasis on its own for that matter for most of the gestation period.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@oran6es
Less than 1% survive if born at 22 weeks. The shortest survival was at 21 weeks 5 days. No baby has survived earlier than that. It's not until 26 weeks at survival is nearly 100%.
If you really want to call a lump of indistinct cells a living human, that's just inane.
Are you one of those people that would rather let the woman die than perform an needed abortion?
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@KemaTheAtheist You just don't get it. A stem cell line goes way beyond 26 weeks. A corporation should not have the right to develop a human, in whole, or in part, into maturity. This has nothing to do with a woman carrying her own child. A woman controls the life growing within her. A corporation should not have the same rights.
oran6es 11 months ago
@oran6es
A LINE. They don't even allow the cells to differentiate. How is that even remotely the same if the stem cells never become anything but stem cells? Do you really think you're making a good argument here that because stem cells are allowed to divide for 26 weeks, that's the same as allowing stem cells to divide and differentiate inside the womb of a woman? Are you kidding?
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@oran6es
"A corporation should not have the right to develop a human, in whole, or in part, into maturity."
All I have to say to that is fuck you. For the people that have been cured of certain kinds of blindness thanks to stem cells and for all the kids that will live a full life because stem cells were used to cure their x-linked adrenoleukodystrophy which would have had them dead at puberty.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@oran6es
I'll finish this by saying that if you are a physician that it's sickening that you are. Stem cells have the most potential of any known line of research for curing the most disease, and for you as a physician who is sworn to help the sick, to be against something a close to a miracle as we could hope for is unconscionable.
If you really are a physician, go read your Hippocratic Oath again. You've forgotten it.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@KemaTheAtheist The advancements in stem cell research to date have been with adult stem cells. Induced pleuripotent stem cells also show promise. There's no need to use developing humans(embryos). Actually, I remember my oath very well, and my embryology as well. I'll continue to "do no harm" to any and all humans, and to protect them against the likes of Hitler(experimented on gypsys and jews, calling them "less human"), and now Obama(somehow believes a "spare" developing human is "less human"
oran6es 11 months ago
@oran6es
Yeah, because experimenting on sentient, conscious beings is the same as an embryo in a petri dish... *rolls eyes* Remind me to never bring my family to you as a doctor. I wouldn't trust you to save my wife if she had an ectopic pregnancy or something because an abortion would destroy the embryo.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@oran6es
"The advancements in stem cell research to date have been with adult stem cells."
Usually after embryonic stem cells are used for studying whatever disease first because adult stem cells are hard to come by and they're hard to culture. They use adult stem cells for the actual cures so the body won't reject the cells. To say all the advancements are due to adult stem cells and not embryonic is asinine. Both were used collectively to produce the results we have today.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@oran6es
"Induced pleuripotent stem cells also show promise."
And they can't be made nearly as quickly and without the same genetic make-up, during research, if they're trying to do something with say micro-arrays for a disease, because of the difference in genetic make-up, they wouldn't be able to tell if the change in results is due to the disease they're studying, or a difference in genetics. That's kind of especially important if the disease being researched is a genetic disease.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@KemaTheAtheist Incorrect(again) An embryo's stem cells ARE differentiated for study and for potential sale. Pancreatic islet cells for diabetics, etc. That's the goal of such research. To make "infant cells" of another human, then sell them. The embryo is a different individual than the recipient. Therefore there is a much HIGHER chance of rejection than there would be from one's own cells derived from skin, etc.
Many favored discrimination and worse a century ago; didn't make it right.
oran6es 11 months ago
@oran6es
"ARE differentiated for study and for potential sale"
Not while they're part of the stem cell line. Differentiated cells would be worthless. You might as well just take a biopsy sample.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@oran6es
"The embryo is a different individual than the recipient. Therefore there is a much HIGHER chance of rejection than there would be from one's own cells derived from skin, etc."
Which is the reason for the misconception you were promulgating about adult stem cells being the ones that cure disease. Embryonic are used earlier in the studies to get to the point they know what to do with the adult stem cells which are much harder to get in quantity.
cont...
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
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@KemaTheAtheist Adult stem cells have been curing leukemia patients for decades.
oran6es 11 months ago
cont 2
Just because the adult stem cells are what are eventually used to apply what we learned doesn't mean that only adult cells are responsible for cures. It requires a lot of work with embryonic cells first.
"Many favored discrimination and worse a century ago; didn't make it right."
Are you seriously suggesting an embryo in a dish is suffering the same as blacks, homosexuals, etc did in the early 1900s?
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@KemaTheAtheist Suffering? No. One group of living humans having inappropriate control over another group for the gain of the controlling group? Yes.
oran6es 11 months ago
@oran6es
So you're saying the "inappropriate control" over blacks, homosexuals, women, and other minorities in the past is the same as scientists control over embryos in a petri dish?
And you're serious about that comparison?
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@KemaTheAtheist Religious fundamentalists dont care about actual morality and suffering, they care about creating controversy and always going against progression and alleviating suffering. They know that the uneducated masses will support their insane views. Which is why they control so much and get away with so much.
lizichell2 9 months ago
We all want a cure for Michael. One major misunderstanding of embryonic stem cell research is that the embryos are killed. They are NOT killed. They are artificially pulled apart, forced to live on and develop well into maturity, albeit in pieces. One group of humans should not have total power and control over the development of another group of humans, for the expressed intent of converting another human into marketable commodities. That's a 13th amendment violation.
oran6es 1 year ago
@oran6es
"We all want a cure for Michael."
I find that very difficult to believe given your position.
You're one of the assholes who vandalizes testing facilities that do experiments on lab rats, aren't you? Because you come off as pretty fucking naive talking about the feelings of a bunch of microscopic cells and tissues. Get fucking real.
Groups of neurons =/ brain. We're not remotely close enough to be able to create an actual brain this way. And that is another matter entirely anyway.
Paradox3121 1 year ago
@oran6es
"They are artificially pulled apart, forced to live on and develop well into maturity, albeit in pieces."
Do you not understand That the cells never differentiate? To say a group of cells that has never been anything but stem cells is "mature" simply because the cell line is a few weeks or months old is stupid. They're no different than the original cell. If they haven't changed, they can't mature.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
@KemaTheAtheist Stem cells replicate AND differentiate as they do so, as does the intact embryo. If embryonic stem cells stayed stem cells, they'd be of no use, and you'd only need one embryo, forever. Each embryo's stem cells constitute it's entire body and substance at that stage of its development. Simple embryology. One stem cell line is all cells derived and differentiated from that one human's worth of cells.
oran6es 11 months ago
@oran6es
"Stem cells replicate AND differentiate as they do so"
Ummm. No. They MIGHT differentiate as they do so IF they have the transcription factors that tell them to do so. If you give them the transcription factors that tell them to just replicate into more undifferentiated stem cells, that's what they'll do.
KemaTheAtheist 11 months ago
Michael J Fox is a great man with a loving heart, I agree with everything he says, i am 18 and i look up to him, people often call me Parkinsons girl but i dont let it bother me because i look up to a great person and support his foundation
iamtheschoolnerd 1 year ago
Michael J. Fox is more likely to be cured if funding is REMOVED from embryonic stem cell research and redirected toward more realistic and more promising research.
oran6es 1 year ago
@oran6es
Like what? Praying to God or rubbing the rabbit's foot? You're a fucking retard.
Paradox3121 1 year ago
@Paradox3121 Like more promising conventional research: pharmaceutical, neurosurgical, animal, oh ye of inferior education/ intellect.
oran6es 1 year ago
@oran6es
Of course! You're a FUCKING GENIUS! Because we never give enough attention and funding to those fields! FUCK!
On the other hand, Stem Cell Research, an extremely promising and more relevant field to genetic disease, needs to have what little attention it gets slashed because dimwitted cocksuckers like you care more about the "sanctity of life" or some bullshit in a microscopic embryo than in an actual fucking human being suffering from a potentially curable disease.
Paradox3121 1 year ago
@Paradox3121 Mean spirited AND uneducated, geez. Actually it IS an actual developing human being, but not fucking yet. You pulled it apart before it had ANY fun. That's a biological FACT, taught in med school, not church. Now, ALL diseases are potentially curable. It's how you do it. Go along with the crowd like the nazis did. They labeled Jews ass "less human" and thought that human research would lead to faster cures. 6 million innocent victims later.......
oran6es 1 year ago
@oran6es
"That's a biological FACT, taught in med school, not church."
They also teach you that a developed brain is where all thoughts and consciousness comes from, which is obviously not present in a fucking embryo. If you think destroying an embryo is equivalent to murder, then kill yourself; your body is producing millions of "developing human beings" all the time in the form of sperm cells.
Paradox3121 1 year ago
@Paradox3121 A fully or partially developed brain, or groups of neurons( nerve cells) can be developed in dishes in the corporate lab, in pieces, or in the uterus of a mother, as part of a complete organism. The control and development of those brain parts should be under the control of a mother, not a cell corporation.
oran6es 1 year ago
@oran6es
By the way, I'm not "mean spirited," I just hate your position on this too much to be civil. Your position is just so fucking insane and stupid. I mean, I can understand the pro-life position... I can sympathize with that. But look at Micheal J. Fox in this video. Now try to imagine millions more in his position. You're trying to take away the research that could end their disability because of an embryo's feelings.
And you're comparing me to Nazi's?! Go die in a fucking fire.
Paradox3121 1 year ago
All you need to settle the issue is to imagine Michael J. Fox was your kid. Watch that guy and think if that was your kid what you'd do. You'd do just about anything.
youtubasoarus 1 year ago
The same lying Atheist con artists who told FOX Stem Cell research would do everything but raise the dead when we haven't seen them discover shit with it are the ones who told us birth control and abortion made sex safe back in the '60s resulting in an AIDS epidemic killing 500 times our KIAs in Vietnam
Texasjim2007 1 year ago
@Texasjim2007 You are one crazy conspiracy theorizing nutbag. What does atheism have to do with science, NOTHING FUCKTARD!
beachnative420 1 year ago
He got it right. Being pro stem cell research is a pro life position.
smarthandsomeguy 1 year ago 19
@willlovesjennifer
In reseach it doesn't matter if a possible disease can be cured . A lot of research doesn't give big results even no results but people keep searching for answers instead of throwing it away and stand still in developing improving life. So people should stop saying research is worthless. Also this kind of reseach is worth the time. If there was no research we would be living in the stone age.
deleukste101 1 year ago
@deleukste101 if you kill babies for 10 years and have nothing to show for it that is worthless research.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer so you'd consider protecting embryonic cells heading for incineration (classed as biological waste, let's not forget) something more noble than instead using them as research tools that could potentially save lives in the future? It's hardly killing babies, it's not the 1800s where we'd hack off arms and legs to see how they'd work. An embryonic cell isn't a life, it's a potential for life, the same way a blueprint isn't automatically a building.
BromiDista 1 year ago
@BromiDista Its not life? Is it not growing? Is it not a human embryo? Do you know what life is? If a woman is pregnant she has a child inside of her. That is why you don't hit them in the stomach. You do not know what life is. Ask yourself the question. Is a human embryo a human
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer No, while it's special and should be respected, it's not a human - It's the blueprints to create one. But regardless of which side of the argument we're on, would you rather these humans were just dumped in a trash can and sent off for incineration as opposed to being used as research tools that could save lives in the future? I know which I would consider more respectful
BromiDista 1 year ago
@BromiDista Blueprints really? You believe that? A human embryo is a blueprint? A human embryo is a human. A small human that is developing. If you stop it you are killing it because it will become a child. Would you also kill a baby because it is not a grown person.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer I sincerely believe that. A seed isn't a plant, a blueprint isn't a house, a recipe isn't a cake, etc etc. They all contain information necessary to develop into a finished product. Serious question - Would you consider menstrual cycles or masturbation in the same way? At what point do you think that potential shouldn't be interfered with? That's not to say there shouldn't be an element of respect involved, I definitely agree with that, but yeah.
BromiDista 1 year ago
@BromiDista When the seed is fertilized and starts to grow is it not a plant and no longer just a seed? When the male and female gametes are together and the female one is fertilized it is no longer a gamete. It is an embryo. That is life. A seed on the sidewalk is different than a watered seed in the ground that is growing. If you were to dig that seed out it would die. Just as you take a embryo out and it dies. It is alive and growing. Not a gamete as you have in a menstrual cycle.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer But if we're talking about potential life, I can't see a straight up difference between a fertilised egg and an egg that hasn't been fertilised at the stage we're talking about.
BromiDista 1 year ago
@BromiDista An embryo is a fertilized egg. Look it up. If it isn't fertilized it is not an embryo. That would be an egg.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer You're missing what I'm trying to say. What's the difference between the two other than the "on" switch being flicked?
BromiDista 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer >"It is an embryo"
Have you seen a blastocyst? Do you actually argue, that a blastocyst is a human being? That's a really silly thing to say. If a blastocyst is a human being, than a fertilized chicken egg is a chicken.
Imagine: The clinic is burning, and you have to decide to save a baby or a basket full of test tubes with fertilized eggs - which do you save?
If you answer: "the baby", you know the difference.
smarthandsomeguy 1 year ago 12
@smarthandsomeguy that's a seriously good comparison man
Women who have CHOSEN abortion, all those millions of 'potential life' are simply being destroyed and the cells from IVF being discarded, why do people oppose those cells from being used for useful research that could ease human suffering.
Maybe it isnt guarenteed but even if there is only a small promise, why shouldnt we be persue it??
People that are here, now, ALIVE are SUFFERING U.U
I remember M.J.Fox from scrubs, he was awesum U.U
xdeathnoteanimedudex 11 months ago
@smarthandsomeguy
Why would you not be able to save both?
Just grab the baby in one hand the the test tubes in the other...
whiteboie79 3 months ago
@whiteboie79 >"Why would you not be able to save both?"
Of course, in reality you might be able to save both, or call for help. In real life, there are usually several options.
But this is a thought experiment, deliberately designed to bring a person to making a moral decision between only two options. If it helps you, imagine you have only one arm, and there's nobody around whom you could ask for help.
A famous thought experiment is the "Trolley problem", google it some day.
smarthandsomeguy 3 months ago
@whiteboie79 I would save both, and I would use the cells in the test tubes to heal my son's SMA so that he can walk, play sports, and be a normal five year old. Does that make me a murderer?
cityofchamps2008 2 months ago
@cityofchamps2008 Why would that make you a murderer if you aren't killing a baby. If you yourself aborted a baby then of course that would be murder but you probably did not. Don't a jackass and twist my words around. Oh and have fun with your retarded kid.
whiteboie79 2 months ago
@whiteboie79 Thats the whole point, I'm not a murderer because I didnt kill anything at all, I simply put the cells to use in a place where they would be more useful than in the trash, where they are currently going. Abortion is not murder , and stem cell research has nothing to do with abortion. I don't really have a son, it was hypothetical, just like i dont really have to choose to save a baby or some cells from a fire, but even if my son had down syndrome he would be less retarded than you.
cityofchamps2008 2 months ago
@cityofchamps2008 You're a complete idiot for thinking I was saying abortion is completely wrong. Again, stop twisting my words around. Actually I have no fucking clue what you are trying to say here. Do you like saying random shit to get yourself mad?
whiteboie79 2 months ago
@whiteboie79 did you ever think your the idiot who always accuses people of twisting your words, it's clear that you have trouble expressing your points, when you get owned, you simply say "that's not what I was saying" your exact words: "If you yourself aborted a baby then of course that would be murder but you probably did not" you called abortion murder, some consider murder to be wrong chief. I said abortion has nothing to do with stem cell, nor is it wrong. what do you think your saying.
cityofchamps2008 2 months ago
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@cityofchamps2008 Okay, you're obviously a complete idiot. Keep on saying random shit to people that are not even talking about what you are trying to say.
whiteboie79 2 months ago
@willlovesjennifer >"Is a human embryo a human"
Sure - but that is totally unrelated to the question of stem cell research. With your argumentation, you would have to argue as well, that organ donors are evil.
Tissue for research are taken from embryos that are dead anyway, and so are organs from organ donors.
smarthandsomeguy 1 year ago
@smarthandsomeguy Embryos aren't dead, stupid. They're alive and developing.
oran6es 1 year ago
@oran6es >"Embryos aren't dead"
Obviously, some are. The debate whether we should use their tissue to help others is the EXACT same question as whether we should donate organs or not.
Only a crazy person would suggest to deliberately kill embryos in order to harvest tissue.
smarthandsomeguy 1 year ago
@deleukste101 I don't say research is worthless. I say 11 years of research that provide absolutely nothing but dead babies is worthless. Many of the embryos are taken by unnatural abortions. That kills life. This is only hurting people. I am not an idiot. You need to learn what effective research is. If you research something for 11 years and decide the only way it can help is if we make people to harvest for tissue from embryos it is pure evil.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer >"provide absolutely nothing but dead babies is worthless"
No babies are harmed to get cells for research - that's utter nonsense and fear mongering! Stem cell research had giant breakthroughs, and is beyond any doubt the foundation of medicine to come.
IPS research is only possible with the knowledge gained by embryonic stem cell research.
Btw: 60+% of all pregnancies lead to natural aborts, in 95% of the cases the woman is not even aware of that.
It's evil not to research!
smarthandsomeguy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
1 Look at my previous comments
2 Read them again
3 Understand them
4 Stop lying to get your point across
5 Repeat step 2
6 Enlightenment
7 Repeat step 2 again
8 You have just been owned twice
smeeesh1 1 year ago
Embryonic Stem Cell research has provided NO cures. Pack of gum $1.35. Package of hot wings $9.94. Embryonic Stem Cell research worthless.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer
1 Look at my previous comments
2 Read them again
3 Understand them
4 Stop lying to get your point across
5 Repeat step 2
6 Enlightenment
7 Repeat step 2 again
8 You have just been owned
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@smeeesh1 haha. I told you where I got the info. You European atheists really hate babies. Go to wikipedia and look up stem cells. If you don't like that look up cures found from embryonic stem cell research. You know across from you on the north sea the Netherlands supports euthanasia without the patients consent? Shows how much Europe is leading the way.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer
No we don't support euthanasia without the patients consent.
And last time I checked atheism wasn't about hating babies (or hating anything for that matter). It's about not subscribing to any religion. Most of the hate in these discussions comes from certain religious people that seem to hate atheists. I would never call a religious person names or throw insults their way that are based on nothing.
0906peter 1 year ago
@0906peter What gives anyone the right to take someone's life? I know that life is meaningless for atheists because life has no meaning for them, but to Christians it does. Embryonic stem cells do not need to be used. They have not cured anything and have been a reason to kill life. The only choice there is is life. Pro-kill is not moral or human.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer
"I know that life is meaningless for atheists because life has no meaning for them"
That is false. Life does have meaning for atheists, the meaning just doesn't come from any religion. That doesn't mean that it can't come from something else.
Not sure what documentary you saw by the way, can you tell me what the name was so I can look it up? I like to think I am pretty well informed of what goes on in my country and I can assure you we don't just kill our senior citizens.
0906peter 1 year ago
@0906peter Much more important is the widespread practice of involuntary euthanasia
which, as the Dutch experience has shown, unavoidably accompanies voluntary
euthanasia. Involuntary euthanasia - the medical killing of sick people
without their knowledge - is a terrible abuse of trust, of individual
freedoms, of the right of choice, and of the fundamental human right: the
right to life.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer
Involuntary euthanasia is terrible indeed. However, you still have not mentioned any credible source to back up your outlandish claims that this is going on in the Netherlands or any other western country. Googling it doesn't mean anything. You can google any crazy thing and get a website that claims it's true. I'm talking about credible sources. And a catholic tv channel isn't exactly that. You can't even name the documentary, or the people that made the documentary.
0906peter 1 year ago
@0906peter its right under your comment. It was on EWTN. Search Euthanasia in Holland in Google and you will find it.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer
I did, but the only stuff I got were some text documents with far fetched godwin comparisons and twisted facts. No actual data from reliable sources or renowned scientists or doctors.
And like I said, you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet, just like you shouldn't get your info from a tv channel with religious bias.
0906peter 1 year ago
@0906peter They interviewed doctors in Holland and talked to families of victims. Choose to disagree with me, but these are facts. Look up more info on it. In 2003, the year after Holland became the first country in the world to legalize the practice since the fall of Nazi Germany, there were 1,815 reported cases. Isn't it great to follow the Nazis?
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer
FYI, the requirements for euthanasia in the Netherlands are stricter than those in some states in the US where euthanasia is legal. "the patient's request for euthanasia must be voluntary and persist over time (the request cannot be granted when under the influence of others, psychological illness or drugs)
And btw, don't you realize far fetched Nazi comparisons only make you look silly? They sort of disqualify you from a reasonable debate.
0906peter 1 year ago
@0906peter The truth is silly? I can't help it that the last country that utilized euthanasia before the Netherlands was Nazi Germany. Doctors are supposed to save peoples lives not take them.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer
Go ahead and ignore the facts I presented about some US states where euthanasia is easier to get than in the Netherlands. And no, the truth is not silly. Not wanting to hear the truth and making far fetched Nazi comparisons is silly. There is no involuntary euthanasia here. NL is not the first country to practice euthanasia since Nazi Germany. And comparing everything that has nothing to do with the involuntary killing of people to the nazi's is silly. Can we be done with this
0906peter 1 year ago
@0906peter yes it is. Do you think not doing research and talking about a subject makes you know about it? People die from involuntary euthanasia all the time. You also need to understand that stem cells do not all come from embryos. Embryonic have supplied no cures for anything. Go to wikipidia and educate yourself on stem cells.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer
-Involuntary- that is, not the first country to do thát. because we don't.
Involuntary euthanasia is wrong, normal voluntary euthanasia is not wrong.
People have the right to die if they are suffering, it is their own choice.
0906peter 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer
And indeed, doctors are supposed to help people that need help, some people need stem cells to help them. Don't deny them that because of your beliefs. People are suffering out there.
0906peter 1 year ago
@0906peter Well embryonic stem cells won't help them. Others will.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@0906peter I got that from searching EUTHANASIA IN HOLLAND on Google. It was on EWTN about a month ago. It's scary that they can kill you without your consent.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer Saying life has no meaning for atheists is both insulting and ignorant. I derive my meaning from a different place then you do, but that does not mean I don't have one. Embryonic stem cells contain less then 150 cells. It seems that if your concern is with the suffering of an individual, you should be infinitely more concerned about someone living with ALS, spinal cord injury, etc. than with the 140 or so cells used to cure them.
katowhite 1 year ago
@katowhite Show how embryonic stem cells help people with ALS. It is a fact that there have been 0 cures found from embryonic stem cells. That is called failure. Look it up. Saying it cures ALS is ignorant. Other stem cells can but not embryonic. Read my other comments for information. I don't need to restate everything again.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer I didn't mean to imply that cures already exist, but to say that it's a failure because no treatments have been developed yet would be incorrect. We know there is potential because adult stem cells have already produced therapies and embryonic stem cells have several advantages over adult ones. I have read your previous comments and you haven't given a good reason for why we shouldn't pursue that potential.
katowhite 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer (ran out of room) Your argument that it's taking a life doesn't hold because like I said before, its less than 150 cells and large numbers of these embryos that are generated by in vitro fertilization are destroyed anyway.
katowhite 1 year ago
@katowhite They have been trying to find a cure with embryonic stem cells for over 10 years and still have none. Foetal stem cells and stem cells taken from a living person have provided many cures. What you need to learn is that embryonic stem cell research has done nothing for anyone after all this time and shows no promise to unless we use them to create people to kill to take their organs, which is preposterous.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@katowhite So if you get pregnant you don't believe it is a baby so you don't need to assume you will have a child? This is how ignorant it is to say that.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer "So if you get pregnant you don't believe it is a baby so you don't need to assume you will have a child?"
Where did I say that? The embryos generated by in vitro fertilization that are being destroyed are not babies and never will be. Why do you have an objection to them being used for research as an alternative to throwing them away? It's been said before but just because no cures have been developed yet doesn't mean they aren't there to be found.
katowhite 1 year ago
@katowhite I have a problem with killing the innocent. You think that the only embryos used come from miscarriages. That is not the case. Millions of abortions happen every year. 40 million to date. I have a problem with that.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer It's not like we're asking to mandate abortions for stem cells, we only want to use the ones that are already going to be destroyed. Like I said before, the embryos used for stem cell research contain less then 150 cells. Compare that to the brain of a fly which has over 100,000 cells and its clear we aren't "killing the innocent" as you put it.
katowhite 1 year ago
@0906peter And I saw a documentary on it. The Netherlands hospitals just kill elderly patients without their consent. Look it up.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@smeeesh1 I read all your comments and still say the same thing. You are a kid that has no idea what he is talking about and doesn't probably know that there are different sources for stem cells.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
By the way, don't change the subject to foetal stem cells, that's not what we're discussing, people like you are an embarrassment to the concept of intelligent debate, check your facts before you state something that simply isn't true, don't quote wikipedia when it doesn't match up, but I guess you figured I wouldn't check it...? I really hope so, if not you might just either blind or really, really mentally challenged, I can't really tell, get back to me on that one please...
smeeesh1 1 year ago
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By the way, don't change the subject to foetal stem cells, that's not what we're discussing, people like you are an embarrassment to the concept of intelligent debate, check your facts before you state something that simply isn't true, don't quote wikipedia when it doesn't match up, but I guess you figured I wouldn't check it...? I really hope so, if not you might just either blind or really, really mentally challenged, I can't really tell, get back to me on that one please...
smeeesh1 1 year ago
By the way, don't change the subject to foetal stem cells, that's not what we're discussing, people like you are an embarrassment to the concept of intelligent debate, check your facts before you state something that simply isn't true, don't quote wikipedia when it doesn't match up, but I guess you figured I wouldn't check it...? I really hope so, if not you might just either blind or really, really mentally challenged, I can't really tell, get back to me on that one please...
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer The "quote" explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies all showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
smeeesh1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@willlovesjennifer The "quote" explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies ALL showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
smeeesh1 1 year ago
Hey, guys, stem cell research is good - give it some time. Somethings gonna happen thatll change everything and theres a huge chance itll involve stem cell research.
MJF FOR LIFE!!! :) :) :)
ayeshamcat 1 year ago
Embryonic stem cell research is a joke that needs to end. All the other forms seem to be ok as long as you aren't killing someone to get them. But embryonic stem cells haven't cured anything. They have only given people an excuse to kill more innocent babies.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer If you had the time to actually do some research, you would have known that stem cell research is the reason why survivors of brain cancer aren't blind, with the use of stem cells they are able to create new optic fibers, and transplant them into the lymbatic nerve, you incompetent, moronic fuck. Before you post gibberish, do some research before you embarrass yourself further. Stop acting so immature, and grow the fuck up. No babies are killed, they are already dead, grow up!
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@smeeesh1 blah blah blah cuss cuss cuss... Do some research on embryonic research genius. It has no cures for anything. And to get an embryo you have to kill a baby. Stem cells can come from living people or dead fetuses and thats fine. As long as the baby wasn't killed to get the fetus or the person wasn't killed to get stem cells. Stem cells from both dead fetuses and people have cured all sorts of ailments but embryonic stem cell research has only killed babies.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer No, embryonic stem cell research comes from newly deceased babies, ergo, no babies have been killed by the "evil medical industry...". Do your research before you embarrass yourself, and by the way, read up on embryonic stem cell research on wikipedia, it has caused breakthroughs in multiple compartments adjuctant to the medical industry, stop acting so immature, you're entitled to your own opinion, you're not entitled to your own facts..
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@smeeesh1 Wrong. That is Foetal stem cells. They have helped. Embryonic have no approved treatments after 11 years of research. Do some research yourself. Look at it on Wikipedia. Look up stem cell. Its not hard to learn before you babble on about something that is completely false.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer You continue to baffle me, I have said nothing about foetal stem cells, they don't really concern me seeing as we're talking about EMBRYONIC stem cells, ad hominem much...? "Clonal cell lines are created by growing up a single cell. Evans and Kaufman showed that the cells grown out from these cultures could form teratomas and embryoid bodies, and differentiate in vitro, which all indicate the cells are pluripotent." You're entitled to your own opinion, not you're own facts!
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer The "quote" explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies ALL showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer @willlovesjennifer The "quote" explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies ALL showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
smeeesh1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@willlovesjennifer The "quote" explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies ALL showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer The quote explains how embryonic stem cells are can be use for patients with bone marrow cancer, providing a vital transplant nutrient, but I guess you don't really trust 57 independent studies ALL showing eradication of the lumbardum cancer cells, but I guess you don't really trust statistics because they lie all the time, right...? Do the concept of intelligence a huge favor, check your facts...!
smeeesh1 1 year ago 3
@smeeesh1 bone marrow cancer(leukemia) has been cured by ADULT stem cells for DECADES. No need for embryos.
oran6es 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer The reason why I am so upset by your statement, is because you don't even have simple facts correct, you pretend to have competence in this matter, but seeing the info in your comments, it saddens me, it really does... If you don't have a basic understanding of embryonic stem cell research, don't act like you do, go read some articles, whatever, just don't pretend to have competence on a subject you have clearly no idea what you're talking about, that's borderline hypocrisy...
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer I have stated this before, but in case you can't read that well, or simply said "TL;DR...", I'l make it easier and more "user friendly" if you like. The "embryo" of a newly deceased baby is extracted and put to grow in a petri dish of choice (*depends of what kind of cells you wish to grow, optic, muscle, tissue, marrow...*), and it is set to grow using a set variety of biomechanical compositions, ergo, no babies have been or will be killed, was that understandable...?
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@smeeesh1 You call me all these names and don't know that stem cells can come from different sources. Grow up and think about stuff before you make yourself look like an idiot.
willlovesjennifer 1 year ago
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@willlovesjennifer "Grow up and think about stuff before you make yourself look like an idiot..." That's a quote from you by the way, you don't have an answer for my argument, so you insult me...? Me thinks you need to grow up and start taking your medication...
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer By the way, those babies that you claim were "killed" by the medical industry, that's just plain lying coming from you, and you tell me I need to do my research...? Those babies died from natural causes (*aborted babies, premature birth, latent birth, etc, etc...*) they were not killed by anyone, except by the simple fact that their lungs failed because they were not developed yet, no one killed anyone, you need to do your research, this is an important subject.
smeeesh1 1 year ago
@willlovesjennifer This IS a touchy subject, and you can argue that it's not respectful for the babies that their cells are being used for research, rather than buried with the child. But how would you feel if you struggled with a disease like Parkinsons, Alzheimers, Huntingtons, multiple sclerosis or any of the other muscle applicated disease that is out there, would you let that research go to waste, simple burying something that might save the lives of tens of millions of people, would you..?
smeeesh1 1 year ago
Spare embryos are no less human. They're not pixie dust, they're just developing humans. Funding conventional research will more likely result in a more rapid cure. We all wish Michael and all patients the very best .
oran6es 1 year ago
RinnEgade - I'm sorry but you must not understand that embryonic stem cells have the ability to morph into any other cell. That is why they are so powerful. The coding will be changed overtime so they can work and they will help people eventually once you realize how powerful these are
gacc41 1 year ago
@gacc41 Twelve years since the first ESC was isolated. And what is there to show for all the money spent, all the research that has been accomplished?
.
What was that? NOTHING. Billions upon Billions of Dollars spent and there has been no positive results. Now that's a really great waste of research money. Money that could have been put into ASCR.
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
They can theorize all they like it doesn't change the truth. Embryonic stem cells won't work properly because they lack the coding necessary to actually produce anything. Adult stem cells work because the coding is there.
RinnEgade 2 years ago
And to the followers of "harvest of embryonic stem cells": If you had been decomposed at few cells stage of development, you wouldn't be writing anything now...
pixiezone 2 years ago
And this from 2009 should end the debate about disassembling human children for production of stem cells: this article describes methods of acquisition of stem cells from human skin -they are your body cells clones. Cell Stem Cell. 2009 Jun 5;4(6):472-6. Epub 2009 May 28.Generation of human induced pluripotent stem cells by direct delivery of reprogramming proteins.Kim D, Kim CH, Moon JI, Chung YG, Chang MY, Han BS, Ko S, Yang E, Cha KY, Lanza R, Kim KS. Harvard Medical School
pixiezone 2 years ago
So there we are not dealing with "potential" of an embryo to develop into human, because this suggest statistical interpretation, as if it could develop different species, but with 1/0 confidence that this is meant to give a new human. And indeed at that stage the one cell is really equal to all human organism, even if it seems amazing.
pixiezone 2 years ago
Science in simple words is about how things works. In this case how human body works. Results of newest research allow us to obtain stem cells from our own body, without the need for destruction of someone else's organism.
That should be extremely clear: human cell with complete genome that entered the state
of embryogenesis WILL produce entire body.
That characteristic differs that cell from all other cells of our bodies that also have complete copy of genome.
pixiezone 2 years ago