The Necessity of Divine Hiddenness

[unassumption]

Interesting to hear that the arguments for divine hidenness have remained fairly constant since the time of St Joh nof the Cross.

It's weaknesses still seem to apply; God revealing himself almost fully to some in scripture and tradition without removing their free will - many denied jesus: relies on free will: people seem free to deny even the most well evidenced truths. It doesn't seem to defend the level of hiddenness.

2:50 -3:00 probably give the atheist more ammunition than defend hideness

[drsuessre14]

St. John's response was not my favorite out of what I read from this book.

[Theologica37]

Great stuff. You have to fix your mic dude. They are like 9$ at walmart; very worth it.

[drsuessre14]

Thanks./When you say "fix your mic" is it because of the high-pitched sound or because it's too quiet?

[djosephallen]

Sorry...I think I meant ad hoc....? I suck at these :)

[djosephallen]

So is this hiddenness a recent necessity? Doesn't seem that divine hiddenness was much of a necessity during biblical times. And definitely not much of a necessity during Jesus' time; as not only was he not hidden, but manifested himself clearly. This seems like a post hoc argument to me. Once humans acquired enough knowledge to correctly explain what was once attributed to god,.... THEN one needs to come up with a reason to explain why he would hide from us.

[drsuessre14]

I kindly tell you that your observation concerning God's hiddenness in the Bible is false. Peace, though, please! Haha. The time God was manifest to most people was from the exodus till when Joshua died. After that, he appeared to people, but only small groups of people. Feel free to check it out. If you need references, I can supply them for you./Your objection is one, I'm sure, most people might have, so thanks for bringing it up.

[djosephallen]

Fine. Then lets stick to the time frame from Exodus-Joshua. My objection still stands. If it is a necessity for god to remain hidden...it seems like a recent necessity. Or at least a necessity that began after Joshua. (or according to you not even then, since appearing even to a small group is still not remaining hidden).Hmmmm...seems to me that my initial postulate of ad hoc is more likely.

[drsuessre14]

I'm sorry, djosephallen. I misunderstood the nature of your objection. Actually, I'm more inclined to agree with you in your skepticism of this answer. It might work in certain cases, but, all in all, I didn't Gracia's essay was all that convincing. I wasn't clear on many points, and the ones I felt I was clear on, I wasn't sure about. Remember: I'm just summarizing what other people said./Thanks for pushing back on this so we can each be clear!

[tbgx1]

Good stuff. Nice to hear an articulation of things I have intuitively come to know..

[drsuessre14]

Thanks, tbgx1. Do you have anymore thoughts on the issue?

[PerennialLucidity]

gahhhh... there's a super high-pitched noise in the background. anyone else hear it?

[gCuezy]

yes it's like torture... it wouldn't have been bad if you didn't point it out and force me to focus on it...

[legodesi]

that noise is the ONLY thing that keeps me from watching the video.

[drsuessre14]

(I'm commenting the same thing to the three of you who have said something about this...I've noticed this too, while previewing my videos, but you're the first few to mention it.) Can you hear it in my other videos? Please tell me when you do here it so I can start thinking what might be causing it.

[PerennialLucidity]

i just went back over your last ten or so videos and just listened to the first few seconds of each, and i hear it prominently on "Divine Hiddenness Justifies Atheism", all the versions of "A New Moral Argument for Prof MTH", and "Reason(s) God Has To Do X Part 2 (but not Part 2)".

it was most prominent on this video though. i was wondering if it was just me hearing it because i've always been able to hear super high pitches when other people couldn't. hope this helps?

[drsuessre14]

Yes, it does. I've got at least one thought on what it might be. Do you know of what might be causing this? Thanks!

[PerennialLucidity]

well the strange thing is that part 1 of a video was fine and part 2 was messed up... if they were recorded as one part and then chopped into two parts then i was say it has to do with your editing software and not the camera. were they recorded as separate videos?

[drsuessre14]

(I'm commenting the same thing to the three of you who have said something about this...I've noticed this too, while previewing my videos, but you're the first few to mention it.) Can you hear it in my other videos? Please tell me when you do here it so I can start thinking what might be causing it.

[drsuessre14]

(I'm commenting the same thing to the three of you who have said something about this...I've noticed this too, while previewing my videos, but you're the first few to mention it.) Can you hear it in my other videos? Please tell me when you do here it so I can start thinking what might be causing it.

[fenoglios]

I love it, man. I've always loved the mystics. And I tend to agree with their wisdom. I went to a monastery this past week, and I sensed God most when I was there with nothing to distract me from Him.

[drsuessre14]

Great to hear! I'd embrace the stuff that's going on when you sense him, but I'd be critical about it as well...perhaps in retrospect - looking back at your experiences. You don't want to get caught up in something to the extent that you disregard everything else, you know?/I love the mystics as well, although I don't read them. I read about them. ( :