If men were denied the accumulation of wealth as a "top-dog behavior" outlet, they would likely do as the ancients did and turn to VIOLENCE. In a world where everything was provided for, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that crime involving gangs of young males (led by older, dominant males) would SOAR!
@ccpht Of course we do! And we always will. (Unless we eliminate mental and physical needs and weaknesses by uploading our minds into robot bodies, or something like that... and even then I think we'd still be a violent, "winner takes all" kind of species.)
@ccpht "Peaceful" Stone Age societies (like Pacific Islanders, Tasaday tribesmen ect.) don't count as serious societies IMHO.
Neither do fringe societies like the Amish, ect.
SERIOUS societies are nations like the USA, Europe, Russia, China ect. (in other words, NATION-STATES which are capable of science, technology, and the economic growth associated with it.) As it happens, nation-states tend to have issues with violence - and have for the last 5,000 years.
@bjggjb You are missing the point. You can't make the claim that violence is a part of human nature and then discount non-violent societies because they 'don't count'. They exist so clearly people like living in them and they are non-violent.
What is being promoted with the resource-based economy concept is a non-violent society with access to resources. Lack of access to resources, or perception of lack of access is a major cause of violence.
There have been a number of "nonviolent" societies studied by anthropologists. Almost ALL of them were primitive, Stone Age societies (as I mentioned before.) OR, they were fringe groups (like the Amish.)
The thing is, people DON'T LIKE to live in such societies if they can avoid it (young people tend to leave at first opportunity.) And where do they tend to go?
Into CITIES, that's where... complete with all the violence, greed, ect. that typifies modern culture!
It doesn't matter how advanced we become technologically... as long as humans are human, 99% of women will prefer to mate with (or even have casual sex with) successful, dominant, highly competitive men. And they will RUTHLESSLY SPURN non-dominant men. This is a genetically programmed behavior, found in ALL human cultures past and present!
So, pursuit of profit, accumulation of wealth, and conspicuous displays of consumption will always be with us. It is our equivalent of a peacock's display!
Actually one problem with Star Treks economics with replicators and all is it may actually diminish the need to improve the goods that are being replicated because hell why work on improving things when everything you need is provided to you and your going to be economically equal to everyone else. Thus the fundamental flaw of socialism, we need a little fire under are feet. I'm not sure how you would get around that.
Capitalism works best today because it promotes the production of goods and services more efficiently and constant improvement of those things. Supply and demand price system is the most efficient form of rationing. In star trek you can now produce anything for nothing and can create and endless supply. The need for a supply and demand system becomes obsolete because the supply of everything is endless and rationing is no longer needed.
There still is scarcity, They can't have absolutely anything just for the asking. What if an average Federation citizen wants his own starship? Will that be provided to him?
@balavent It's not that Starships are scarce it's that the Federation regulates those who can use them because they don't want every Joe to have is own star ship to do what ever with.
A good point, of course they would be regulated. However, I think the point about scarcity is still valid. Even a society as advanced as the Federation would be unable to produce an unlimited amount of certain goods.
But, for the sake of argument, let’s consider an item less potentially dangerous than a starship; a bottle of Chateau Picard. Not Synthahol, mind you, but the real stuff. Robert Picard, his family and staff can only produce so much in a year.
@balavent I never watched much Star Trek so I don't know a lot about the Replicators and synthanol (that I've never heard of until now). I'm not a trekky so in regards to Star Trek specific stuff I'm not going to know as much.
Well if you did have the real stuff being made the old fashion way then you would have a scarcity of it. I guess in regards to the wine and the restaurant I guess a first come first serve would be the alternative if their just giving away the fruits of their work
What if you want a bottle? You can’t buy it-no money. Does Picard just give it away? Why does he even bother to make it? Just to preserve the wine making tradition? Why does Captain Sisko’s father run his restaurant? Even if Picard does give away the fruit of his labors, what happens if more people want a bottle that the number of bottles available?
By the same token, does the Picard family own their land? Why? Because the family owned the land back when money existed? What if a person who owns no land on Earth wants some? He can't buy it even if he finds a willing seller. Once again, no money. Does the government own all the land? We know what that system is called.
In any society in which scarcity of desired goods, be they starships, wine, land or anything else exists, people will seek those goods. Money WILL exist.
Or an alternative system which serves the same purpose; the allocation of said scarce goods. This is human, and I would think humanoid nature. There are only two ways to avoid this. Either establish a brutal totalitarian state, which I’m sure you’ll agree the Federation is not, or establish a society in which unlimited supplies of all possible desired goods exist. It is difficult to imagine such a society ever existing among humanoids.
The producers of Trek posited a society with no money without considering, or at least ignoring all the implications of such a premise. This did allow Captain Picard to pompously pontificate on the "primitive" economic systems of the past. Which may have been the whole point.
SharmanMcLane-Please forgive the disjointed presentation of my reply-the character posting limited necessitated it.
@balavent Keep in mind money is not what's important money is just a promise for goods and services everything important about it is intrinsic. In a society with limited resources it is a great way to move resources around more efficiently. In a world with replicators that create infinite resources it does make money and capitalism obsolete. I've made several posts on this. If you're inclined to read them just go down a bit in the responses and you should find them.
@balavent I will tell you the one thing they put in Star Trek that I find the most ridiculous is somehow humanity becomes more "evolved" there are just no natural pressures for humans to become more evolved. Were doomed to have the flaws of being human forever unless their is some serious as hell gene manipulation in the whole population, or the humans that don't evolve that way start dieing off.
How can you say that ? I really cant understand that..... Lots of things are being put in our habits, but we are NOT born greedy !!! We are, if we are, RAISED that way, the world is raised that way. Greed and money are valuable things. VERY WRONG.
@dulfaMB In nature animals greedily compete for resources all the time even those species that are not raised by a parents. Being greedy is simply in our DNA having more resources and possessions create a sense of security, because in nature having more resources better ensures ones survival.
@YNot1989 not greedy, I can asure you that. Some few humans might be. At least untill the discovery of duplicators when everything will be available to everyone. Then the challenge will be to improve everything.
I understand this. I would way more willing to work if the outcome is I get to have anything and everything. Fuck money! Whose to say good will can't be the medium of exchange?
Yeah - a resource based economy would be pretty easy to institute when we are able to replicate any materials, food, fuels, etc.. Anybody getting a replicator for christmas?
@naughtypagan72 We have the technology to have more than enough food for everybody in the world and more than enough energy for everybody in the world.
@naughtypagan72 We don't resources. Our earth is rich in all we need. We don't need replicators. We simply need a high tech industry applied outside of a monetary based system. We don't lack the resources nor the tech. It is all about people feeling helpless and thus not trying to make a move and also about wealthy people who don't want to lose their position. Once the majority will have little left to lose than we shall see change.
@TheMarkrafter The Earth certainly has the resources to provide everything for our current population, the problem is what incentive do individuals have for extracting those resources and turning them into useful things and improving the good and the processes that go into improving that good. And what incentive is their for making the tech? Competitive Free Market capitalism provides more incentives to more people.
@naughtypagan72 We already have 3D printing which allows one to do rapid 3D prototyping. So you can fabricate physical objects quickly. We already know how to grow organic fruits and vegetables from an apartment room in New York City. there are already technologies to help people become completely independant
This is real. We all need some basic rules. So we can make them and move one in new era. The world today have more money then they had 50 years ago but with that we have 10x times worse world. Does that tell you something? To me yes!
@DragonBoneStudio This is a perfect example of the "unconstrained" view of man as outlined in Thomas Sowell's book "Conflict of Visions", and a perfect example of Roddenberry's utopia. Problem is, it's simply an unattainable fantasy society, (someone please tell Obama!)
Pichard says "..we are no long obsessed with the accumulation of things..." Give someone a "replicator" and see just how many things they'll make! lol
@gcnengineer If we had replicators, eventually, people would get tired of making things with them. That's the point. Once people saw how truly valueless things were, they would move on and see how stupid they had been to give value to them for so long.
@EmperorofCartoons The reason they gave things value is because they were limited. The price system created by Supply and Demand is the most efficient form of rationing. In Star Trek you remove supply with replicators, people no longer need to worry about supplying the demand. You don't necessarily make things valueless because I still value food that keeps me alive, I still require and value the vehicle that moves me around and etc. All replicators do is destroy the Price system.
No money, no wealth, no hunger, no war,no poverty, everyone gets all of their needs and wants met due to possessing(in theory) a molecular self-assembler. An idealistic utopia where society revolves around collectively improving the human race instead of cutthroat competition.
I think material needs exist solely because of some unfulfilled needs in peoples' lives; because they're unhappy with their jobs and/or their personal lives. It's just easier to make things more available in the form of electronics, media or fashion than it is to do some heavy soul-searching. If what Picard says is true, then everyone has true meaning and fulfillment in their lives 300 years from now. For this to happen, we need to dig deep right now.
No money, no wealth. Everyone has all of their needs and wants fulfilled(everyone lives in mansions, drives fast cars,etc.). On Earth, war and poverty have been eliminated. A society revolving around collectively improving the human race instead of cut-throat competition is a world I want to live in.
@lastswordfighter There's a difference between wants and needs. There will always be needs, and that includes material things that advance our lives. The systems we have now of cyclical consumption, thats making trash to keep people on the slave treadmill, so that the wealthy prospers. in the future we'll develop products that are made to last, and easily upgradeable. Products now are purposely obsolete shortly after buying them, and are soon off to the landfill. Capitalism is a system of waste.
@chuckriggs1 There will always be wants. So long as someone has something that you don't you will want it. That's part of the human condition. Even in Star Trek there still those who were haves and had nots. Want has been with a part of humanity since it's ancestors were climbing in trees. You are correct about capitalism creating waste. There's not enough return on the invest so to speak. We just create another piece of technology that requires more energy and does no harm to the environment.
@lastswordfighter Actually, you are describing greed, and thats a trait that is not necessarily universal. Much of that if not all of it, is learned; and in a society where there are NO haves and have nots (There arent in Star Trek, due to replicators being freely available to everyone.), even this could be unlearned.
@EmperorofCartoons In nature animals greedily compete for resources all the time even those species that loners and parentless. Being greedy is simply in our DNA having more resources and possessions create a sense of security, because in nature having more resources better ensures one's survival. Being selfless to an extent is also in our nature because working with others improves ones odds of survival, but not as ingrained as greed. It is the Yin and Yang concept we need and have both.
We certainly did create this system.....hundreds of years ago...we weren't very smart back then were we? Wanting to keep on using this monetary system is about as stupid as wanting to keep on using flint axes.
3 things are needed for us to have a future such as the one described by Picard, Star Trek only portrayed 2 of them. 1. A device that functions as a Star Trek style replicator or Diamond Age style matter compiler, giving us the ability to eliminate scarcity of specific material resources. 2. Robots with AI and physical capabilities sufficient to perform, at least, any task a human can do. 3. An infinite (or at least so abundant as to be effectively infinite) power source to keep 1 and 2 running.
Well, I'll be--it's Agent Adam Chance from "Agent for H.A.R.M." as Mr. Offenhouse. I'm sure Mike and the bots would be delighted to see him pop up in Star Trek.
" The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century. " -- Cpt.Picard in Star Trek First Contact (1996)
The comparison of communism and resource economy are incorrect because the resource economy has technology giving individuals infinite access to energy that is either infinite,renewable, or plentiful for instance solar power,hydropower,wind power so energy wars will be unnecessary. Also communism relies on rabid sectarian nationalism where economic/military warfare are unavoidable. You gotta realize the resource economy is what happens when androids can do low skilled repetive work thus freein
@OneNationUnderCanada You can have a resource based economy without technology. We could have had a resource based economy before electricity. I suppose it's a loosely termed word but to me it simply means nobody should need to pay for basic resources that they need to survive. A homeless person who just loss his job because some asshole wants a bently should have basic secure resources. Especially in the "richest" country in the world.
I originally thought star trek were communist but communism is built on money like capitalism only money gets controlled by the government instead of individuals but a resource economy isn't based on money or even barter . Technology creates open access to infinite energy and replaces low skilled labor while calculating how much resources are accessible to the individual in relation to the renewability of said resource that the individual wishes to consume.
@TheGuyWithTheSniper Human behaviour is determined by the environment, in a society where everything is available for free, there will be no reason to be greedy.
The bad guy is right though, it's not about possessions for the people in power, it's about power, the ability to control a populations life and destiny. This means that even in a Resource Based Economy where everyone has all the needs they want, it wouldn't matter, there will always be people looking to control the general population of the world whether in a monetary system or a resource based economy.
@theBartone9119 I agree, in order for the "star trek" society to work. Everybody has to live and think that way. Everything that is done is for the good of other people and not ourselves. Not sure how to make it happen though. However, solving the world's energy problems is a good place to start. Michio Kaky says we'll either make it to type 1 or we'll perish.and most civlizations don't make it to type 1.
@TheUnknownHarbingers "Everything that is done for the good of the people and not ourselves." In a RBE what you do for others is also best for yourself.
@theBartone9119 via controlling the supposedly "neutral" "computer" that would determine production methods, distributions, and, the truly retarded assertion: prices.
Folks have taken to calling it the Stalin 9000. :D
@BigDaddyBongos The "supposedly neutral computer" will be just as "neutral" as the computer that tracks distribution for 7-11 or Best Buy.Too many sci-fi movies are clouding your thinking dude.
@theBartone9119 And why are those people looking to control the general population? When you learn the answer to that question you will realize that RBE could exist.
@ConsciousEye8 They are looking to control the population because they already have everything else. Once you have all the money you could want, the only thing left is control or power. SImple.
@theBartone9119 Your "simple" assumption is erroneous. It's like saying "once you have a gun in your hand, the only thing left is to kill someone". Having a gun doesn't mean you'll kill just like having money doesn't mean you're power hungry. The root cause of that behavior in certain individuals must be addressed and once the root cause is removed the behavior would cease to exist.
@ConsciousEye8 That gun analogy was retarded, I'm just going to pretend you didn't type that. To pluck the root cause would be to wipe out every human on earth because we all have the capability to do bad things to one another. Basically, you fail to realize that their are men out there with all the resources and money in the world and they are the true criminals. Anyone who claims that crime is based on scarcity needs to get their heads checked, Wall Street have everything they want. Criminals.
@theBartone9119 I agree that human beings are capable of a very wide range of behavior. And I'm also very aware that there are people out there with all the money in the world and still want more. You still fail to answer the question of WHY someone would act that way. Saying "that's how humans are" or "that's the way the world is" simply demonstrates your lack of understanding of human psychology and behavior. Wall Street is just a magnified manifestation of the scarcity/competitive mindset.
@ConsciousEye8 Don't insult my intelligence by acting like sociological aspects are the only thing that dictate human behavior. Human nature doesn't go away no matter how much evolutionary self progression we may make or how much society changes. In an RBE you could simply bump into someone accidentally and the inner primate would come out like it does now, this is dangerous because the RBE idea entails no police/ courts/ lawyers and assumes people would willingly rehabilitate themselves.
@theBartone9119 The truth is, our environment is the only thing that dictates our behavior. For what else could? How do you think our "inner primate" behavior developed? "Human nature doesn't go away no matter how much evolutionary self progression we may make or how much society changes." That statement is false. "The RBE idea entails no police/ courts/ lawyers and assumes people would willingly rehabilitate themselves." That statement is also false.
@ConsciousEye8 How did our inner primate behavior develop? Well the fact that we have a common ancestors of apes might have something to do with it. Plus you seem to forget who created the environment we live in, people. How can our environment dictate our actions when we dictate the environment?Construction workers build roads, Future Shop workers sell TV's, McDonald's workers give us fast food, people give Churches money willingly, Preachers preach , Bankers collect interest.
@theBartone9119 Remember that since the beginning of time we lived in scarcity, so as humans evolved naturally a system was born out of that fundamental reality. Now all the system is doing is self perpetuating the outdated values that created it in the first place. It's a vicious cycle. I challenge you to look within and consider the possibility that your opinions have been forged by the very environment that you were brought up in.
@ConsciousEye8 Besides the grass, lakes, trees, oceans, mountains and things of that nature, our whole environment was built by humans. This takes me back to my previous point, if you want to pluck the root problem you would have to wipe out humans as a whole considering we created the environment that supposedly we are a product of according to you. People just have to live with the fact that we are an imperfectly evolved primate and that there will never be a general consensus regarding policy
@theBartone9119 "Humans are too tribal for RBE" is simply the voice of someone conditioned by a tribal society. A tribal society that had its place in a history, but is now what's threatening our very existence. Humans are conditioned by their environment. Period. This is scientifically proven there's nothing to argue there. Nobody said it would be an easy or comfortable transition, but our future will be very bleak if we do not evolve.
@ConsciousEye8 An organism at war with itself? Sounds like humans not the system lol You say we have a tribal society, but why is that? It's because humans are tribal, it has nothing to do with the society it's simply human nature (something that wacko Fresco pretends doesn't exist). For instance, the Zeitgeist movement is a tribe, a cult. The OWS is a tribe, same with Anon with their V for Vendetta masks....You can't say it has to do with the society, because who built the society? Humans......
@ConsciousEye8 I think people like you are too scared to look at the real root cause of our problems, it's us. Our environment doesn't build us, we build it. Were banks always here? Were churches? No, We built the banks, we built the churches, how can anyone in their right mind say we are simply a product of our environment when WE created the environment.....Think about it.
@ConsciousEye8 Saying that I have been conditioned to the system is a cop out argument and you know it, you simply fail to realize that we created the environment you claim created us lol I think you are backwards in your thinking...
@ConsciousEye8 Humans are too tribal for a RBE. You have Republicans, Democrats, The Tea Party, Israel, Palestine, China and US tensions rising and having market wars ect. To think humans would collectively get together for an RBE is nothing more than a pipe dream.
@theBartone9119 While technology has magnified the negative effect of humanity's scarcity mindset, fortunately it's also evolved to level where we can meet the needs of everyone on the planet. The current system is flawed at its core and what we're witnessing is the beginning of it's inevitable breakdown. An organism at war with itself is doomed. It's time to evolve. I wish you the best brother.
Great scene. One of my favorites from the series. I love the part right before this scene where the guy says, "I have a substantial portfolio!" Cracks me up everytime.
The argument that you have "power" to control your "life & destiny" in a monetary system is not very well thought out. In a monetary system, you are generally dependent upon someone providing you money (usually through a wage) by being lucky enough to find someone willing to purchase your labor.
Without money - you have no purchasing power. Without purchasing power, you will have no access to food, shelter, clothing or much of anything else - unless someone is kind enough to give it to you.
@Excelion333 ask & thy shall receive: check out unitinghumans dotcom thevenusproject dotcom or thezeitgeistmovement dotcom 2 b introduced 2 others who r moving in this direction. A movement beyond politics, poverty & war. And with the Occupy movements happening, the global family is uniting & looking 2 create something better. Well, we've the knowledge, resources & technology (used wisely by this current generation)to create a future as Picard describes. It is happening NOW! Luv,Mamma D "^_^"
@captaindrywall yea no shit... i wasnt using it as a reference to linclon being my captian... dumb fuck know it all know nothings acting like they taught you somthing .. oh also i know its a walk whitman poem dumb fuck he was alson a faggot and a racist ... so whats your point?
@kenmabie so as you can see my nicname is captaindrywall, and people say all the time captain my captain, so one day i look it up wow its a poem and the captain is dead. I didnt know, they didnt know. I thought you didnt know. but instead your just a jerk.
@captaindrywall aww did i upset the poor illerteriate bastard that doesnt know anything because they didnt pay attention in school.... and the fucking captian in walts poem you moron is PRESIDENT LINCOLN... you know fords theater ... john wilks booth.... sic sempere tyranus all that good shit, get off the inter net you dumb fuck and read a book
@kenmabie Just because your on the internet, and quit removed from the physical presents of another person, do you really have to speak in such fashion? Would you stand in front of a 55 year old man and swear as such to his face. No, I doubt you would. As i didn't read this peom in school, I just looked it up i see no reason i could ever gleen such information from it as you seem to have gotten from a teacher in school. You man be more comfortable standing on Wall st. protestiing.
@captaindrywall "Would you stand in front of a 55 year old man and swear as such to his face. No, I doubt you would. "
you dont know me very well do you ... want me to say it to your face then come see me at 9417 charter creek drive ashland va 23005, at eh same name listed here as my account name, and if youre 55 years old and havent read walt witman i now know what your problem is .. your school failed you. so how about you shut the fuck up old man and go choke on a sack of baby dicks
@captaindrywall also moron your age has nothing to do with your intelligence or my respect for you ... respect is earned not given freely, you acting like a know it all as seen above when in reality you knew nothing and had it blow up ni your face isnt diserving of my respect and makes me question yoru intelligence... you sir are an idiot ... good day
@captaindrywall oh and did i mention im from philly ... where theres the WALT WHITMAN BRIDGE... i think i know somthing about him ... my comment wasnt in reference to a mountian man looking homo who thought "the abolitionist movement as a threat to democracy" it was in reference to a sexy bald man who was taling about how wonderful a resource based economy is ... now checw on that dicknugget
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@bmatthews15 Zeitgeist is full of crap set to music. Most of the information is incorrect but that doesn't matter because it's goal is not to appeal to rational thought but to break through using the same emotional techniques as politicians, oil commercials and "current affairs" TV programs.
Read Aldus Huxley's essay - "Propaganda in a democratic society"
@DJKAYZEE Cool you should be able to formulate your own view instead of regurgitating some music hype video then. Glad you're so much more advanced a human then anyone else.
@mryellow123 So far you have not offered one single coherent argument based on critical thinking.
Instead of whining pointlessly with retarded insignificant labels and whatever worthless garbage you come up with, point out exactly where you disagree.
The behavior you display is exactly what you claim that the documentary series "supposedly" is, in your "opinion".
And are you referring to all 3 of them? Or the old, 1st 'movie' (which wasn't even anything)?
@somebungholio I have no motivation to explain, prove, or persuade you of anything. Simply saying that some trendy music video "positive" propaganda isn't the best source of critical information and can never be taken seriously as "a movement". Take that as you like, instead of asking me to disprove/prove something.
@mryellow123 (cont) basically the idea is to improve society using the best known scientific method with the interest for the well-being of society; and to do that one needs to understand what behavior is, how it is shaped by the environment, and how our current society plays a role in it.
There is no 'perfect' anything; it's about minimizing the atrocities we see in our society such as hunger, corruption, greed, poverty, wars for profit. Behaviors that are heavily affected by upbringing.
@somebungholio If you'd like to discuss rather then rave-on about some "movement", then please refer to my point. If you believe humans can sustainably live on 1 planet without first consuming all it's resources, please explain to me how. If you believe a simple bit of emotional irrational prositive propaganda constitutes information of high reliability then so be it, just don't ask me to cite each of the instances where it side-steps reality. I'm sure you can find good critics of it on google.
@mryellow123 I've been searching for "good critics" of it and those seem to not exist; there's a few obvious downsides such as how to transition into such a system, which are only mentioned by people who can actually grasp the entirety of this type of idea for a change to society and they don't try to futilely debate against it, but rather, improve upon it.
And all the rest are typically raving retarded sheep; very much like the behavior you're expressing now.
@somebungholio For what do you wish me to provide an argument?
oh the movie.... who cares... like I've said already I have no interest in dissecting it with citations here in youtube comments.... That would be even more retarded then this current "conversation".
I said it was a clever approach to spreading a message using the same tools as the corporate world. Namely propaganda which appeals to emotion. It works very well for this. However it is not the end-point.
If one is "enlighented" by this form of communication then that is all well and good. From that point on, rather then end-less regurgitation, actually forming your own opinion can only be good.
@mryellow123 The way information presented is actually quite irrelevant if that information is valid.
If you're crossing the street, and a person behind you yells like a maniac "OH MY FUCKING GOD, CAR! STOP YOU IDIOT!", would you ignore their warning and let the car hit you?
Extreme example although on a similar basis.
Also; do you think it's not possible that people who live in this very system itself could not be informed just by experiencing it?
@mryellow123 (cont) Quite a number of people I've spoken with, including myself, already knew much of the information presented in the series; although it did have a very good amount of detail about all ifs inner workings.
We're living in it.
Do you believe our current society does not need improvement?
As for information presentation methods being irrelevant.... Did you read the Huxley I cited? There are very large differences between emotional and rational propaganda. Sure convincing "the lowest common denominator" with some emotional arguments is all well and good..... I've already said that 3 times now.
@somebungholio If you still haven't picked it up yet...... We aren't even talking about the same things. You are just talking to yourself and I'm the "opposition" for you to "win" against.
@mryellow123 It sounds more like you perceive this series as the "opposition". Since you've been making so many fanatical claims against it, must have caused you pain in some way so you feel like you have to be "out for revenge" or something; although it's quite futile to try to go against an idea when you do not even know what the idea really is.
What you're doing now is word-twisting to make it sound as if I'm saying something way out of context from what we're actually discussing.
@somebungholio No I made a very simple statement relating to the method of communication used by your favourite movie and you took it to heart and felt the overwhelming need to go on the defencive.
I'm going to bake some ANZAC biscuits... want some?
@somebungholio "Propaganda in favor of action dictated by the impulses that are below self-interest offers false, garbled or incomplete evidence, avoids logical argument and seeks to influence its victims by the mere repetition of catchwords, by the furious denunciation of foreign or domestic scapegoats, and by cunningly associating the lowest passions with the highest ideals"
@mryellow123 And how do you relate that; where did you see this type of "propaganda" being shown and why do you believe that specific part of what you saw is unacceptable?
@somebungholio Just in-case you missed it the last 3-4 times.
I do not disagree with the ideas. I simple state that one should form their own opinions rather then repeating catchphrase propaganda. I go on to say that "fighting fire with fire" as Zeitgeist does, is a good thing, up to a point.
@mryellow123 I answered that earlier: the Zeitgeist series (talking about all 3 movies) is generally not new information to me, I've already experienced those failures of our system for quite a while (and it's still getting worse, as we can see around us), but it does have good detailing of all the inner mechanics for how it all really works.
So I already had the basis of my opinion simply from experience.
@somebungholio I'm sure they'll be happy in their walled cities to keep out the toxic dump which surrounds them. If they manage to design better walls.
So now I'm saying everything is great and fine? Ok... I'll say whatever you say I say.
You're as bad as a fundamentalist christian mate... "I knew the real truth first!!! Prove it doesn't exist!!! Go on!!! You can't!!!"
How is having a conversation with yourself going for you? Looks pretty funny from here.
@mryellow123 "I'm sure they'll be happy in their walled cities to keep out the toxic dump which surrounds them. If they manage to design better walls."
A toxic dump? Explain what kind of circumstances cause that; how did you come up with this idea?
"So now I'm saying everything is great and fine? Ok... I'll say whatever you say I say."
................................ What? Where did you come up with that?
THERE IS NO HUMAN NATURE, ONLY BEHAVIOUR TO CERTAIN CONDITIONS.
fumaporros456 1 day ago 2
If men were denied the accumulation of wealth as a "top-dog behavior" outlet, they would likely do as the ancients did and turn to VIOLENCE. In a world where everything was provided for, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that crime involving gangs of young males (led by older, dominant males) would SOAR!
bjggjb 3 days ago
@bjggjb We already have a 'top-dog behavior' society which is full of violence.
ccpht 3 days ago
@ccpht Of course we do! And we always will. (Unless we eliminate mental and physical needs and weaknesses by uploading our minds into robot bodies, or something like that... and even then I think we'd still be a violent, "winner takes all" kind of species.)
bjggjb 2 days ago
@bjggjb Not all societies are violent hence violence is not a trait which is natural, it is learned.
ccpht 1 day ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@ccpht "Peaceful" Stone Age societies (like Pacific Islanders, Tasaday tribesmen ect.) don't count as serious societies IMHO.
Neither do fringe societies like the Amish, ect.
SERIOUS societies are nations like the USA, Europe, Russia, China ect. (in other words, NATION-STATES which are capable of science, technology, and the economic growth associated with it.) As it happens, nation-states tend to have issues with violence - and have for the last 5,000 years.
And, they always will. Human nature!
bjggjb 1 day ago
@bjggjb You are missing the point. You can't make the claim that violence is a part of human nature and then discount non-violent societies because they 'don't count'. They exist so clearly people like living in them and they are non-violent.
What is being promoted with the resource-based economy concept is a non-violent society with access to resources. Lack of access to resources, or perception of lack of access is a major cause of violence.
ccpht 1 day ago
@ccpht One more thing.
There have been a number of "nonviolent" societies studied by anthropologists. Almost ALL of them were primitive, Stone Age societies (as I mentioned before.) OR, they were fringe groups (like the Amish.)
The thing is, people DON'T LIKE to live in such societies if they can avoid it (young people tend to leave at first opportunity.) And where do they tend to go?
Into CITIES, that's where... complete with all the violence, greed, ect. that typifies modern culture!
bjggjb 1 day ago
It doesn't matter how advanced we become technologically... as long as humans are human, 99% of women will prefer to mate with (or even have casual sex with) successful, dominant, highly competitive men. And they will RUTHLESSLY SPURN non-dominant men. This is a genetically programmed behavior, found in ALL human cultures past and present!
So, pursuit of profit, accumulation of wealth, and conspicuous displays of consumption will always be with us. It is our equivalent of a peacock's display!
bjggjb 3 days ago
All of man's striving is because of envy of his neighbor. -- Solomon
AmericanSilverEagle 6 days ago
Actually one problem with Star Treks economics with replicators and all is it may actually diminish the need to improve the goods that are being replicated because hell why work on improving things when everything you need is provided to you and your going to be economically equal to everyone else. Thus the fundamental flaw of socialism, we need a little fire under are feet. I'm not sure how you would get around that.
ShamanMcLamie 1 week ago
Capitalism works best today because it promotes the production of goods and services more efficiently and constant improvement of those things. Supply and demand price system is the most efficient form of rationing. In star trek you can now produce anything for nothing and can create and endless supply. The need for a supply and demand system becomes obsolete because the supply of everything is endless and rationing is no longer needed.
ShamanMcLamie 1 week ago
There still is scarcity, They can't have absolutely anything just for the asking. What if an average Federation citizen wants his own starship? Will that be provided to him?
balavent 1 week ago
@balavent It's not that Starships are scarce it's that the Federation regulates those who can use them because they don't want every Joe to have is own star ship to do what ever with.
ShamanMcLamie 1 week ago
@ShamanMcLamie
A good point, of course they would be regulated. However, I think the point about scarcity is still valid. Even a society as advanced as the Federation would be unable to produce an unlimited amount of certain goods.
But, for the sake of argument, let’s consider an item less potentially dangerous than a starship; a bottle of Chateau Picard. Not Synthahol, mind you, but the real stuff. Robert Picard, his family and staff can only produce so much in a year.
balavent 1 week ago
@balavent I never watched much Star Trek so I don't know a lot about the Replicators and synthanol (that I've never heard of until now). I'm not a trekky so in regards to Star Trek specific stuff I'm not going to know as much.
Well if you did have the real stuff being made the old fashion way then you would have a scarcity of it. I guess in regards to the wine and the restaurant I guess a first come first serve would be the alternative if their just giving away the fruits of their work
ShamanMcLamie 1 week ago
@ShamanMcLamie
What if you want a bottle? You can’t buy it-no money. Does Picard just give it away? Why does he even bother to make it? Just to preserve the wine making tradition? Why does Captain Sisko’s father run his restaurant? Even if Picard does give away the fruit of his labors, what happens if more people want a bottle that the number of bottles available?
balavent 1 week ago
@balavent
By the same token, does the Picard family own their land? Why? Because the family owned the land back when money existed? What if a person who owns no land on Earth wants some? He can't buy it even if he finds a willing seller. Once again, no money. Does the government own all the land? We know what that system is called.
In any society in which scarcity of desired goods, be they starships, wine, land or anything else exists, people will seek those goods. Money WILL exist.
balavent 1 week ago
@ShamanMcLamie
Or an alternative system which serves the same purpose; the allocation of said scarce goods. This is human, and I would think humanoid nature. There are only two ways to avoid this. Either establish a brutal totalitarian state, which I’m sure you’ll agree the Federation is not, or establish a society in which unlimited supplies of all possible desired goods exist. It is difficult to imagine such a society ever existing among humanoids.
balavent 1 week ago
@ShamanMcLamie
The producers of Trek posited a society with no money without considering, or at least ignoring all the implications of such a premise. This did allow Captain Picard to pompously pontificate on the "primitive" economic systems of the past. Which may have been the whole point.
SharmanMcLane-Please forgive the disjointed presentation of my reply-the character posting limited necessitated it.
-Balavent
balavent 1 week ago
@balavent Keep in mind money is not what's important money is just a promise for goods and services everything important about it is intrinsic. In a society with limited resources it is a great way to move resources around more efficiently. In a world with replicators that create infinite resources it does make money and capitalism obsolete. I've made several posts on this. If you're inclined to read them just go down a bit in the responses and you should find them.
ShamanMcLamie 1 week ago
@balavent I will tell you the one thing they put in Star Trek that I find the most ridiculous is somehow humanity becomes more "evolved" there are just no natural pressures for humans to become more evolved. Were doomed to have the flaws of being human forever unless their is some serious as hell gene manipulation in the whole population, or the humans that don't evolve that way start dieing off.
ShamanMcLamie 1 week ago
@ShamanMcLamie As we deplete the world's resources the natural pressures to work in a more sustainable society will be more apparent.
ccpht 3 days ago
Picard is socialist. Who would have thunk it?
TheLackofattack 3 weeks ago
@TheLackofattack Anyone who watches Star Trek. The entire Federation is socialist.
EmperorofCartoons 1 week ago
@EmperorofCartoons nope, they just surpassed consumism. Socialism is obsolete.
yanpagh 1 week ago
You can't eliminate want. Humans are greedy, its our nature.
YNot1989 3 weeks ago
@YNot1989 Greed is a trait that is learned.
ccpht 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos 16
@ccpht Thanks for the upload! I believe a resource based economy could allow humanity to work for the greater good instead of greed!
ddd82451 2 days ago
@ccpht Incorrect. Greed is inborn in all living things. And greed is good.
mrjjking77 8 hours ago
@YNot1989 There is no such thing as human nature, there is human behaviour, and that changes with the environment.
chuckriggs1 3 weeks ago
@YNot1989
How can you say that ? I really cant understand that..... Lots of things are being put in our habits, but we are NOT born greedy !!! We are, if we are, RAISED that way, the world is raised that way. Greed and money are valuable things. VERY WRONG.
Enjoy
dulfaMB 2 weeks ago
@dulfaMB In nature animals greedily compete for resources all the time even those species that are not raised by a parents. Being greedy is simply in our DNA having more resources and possessions create a sense of security, because in nature having more resources better ensures ones survival.
ShamanMcLamie 1 week ago
@YNot1989 if that were true, we'd still live in caves and be chasing cows with sticks.
ikillkings 1 week ago
@YNot1989 not greedy, I can asure you that. Some few humans might be. At least untill the discovery of duplicators when everything will be available to everyone. Then the challenge will be to improve everything.
yanpagh 1 week ago
I understand this. I would way more willing to work if the outcome is I get to have anything and everything. Fuck money! Whose to say good will can't be the medium of exchange?
ddd82451 2 months ago 7
Picard would make a great host... on Fantasy Island.
rlui123 2 months ago
If Picard dosnt need things. How come he always get excited every time he picks up a new artifact. Even tho i would like a replicator.
Tuber77 2 months ago
@Tuber77
Those are more signs of a civilization and history...and Picard is a student of history.
Ragitsu 2 months ago 3
They should drop him off on the Ferengi homeworld
Q3hero 3 months ago
YES, in a resource based economy, we cud actually.....ENJOY!!! "^_^"
lspmd2 3 months ago 14
Yeah - a resource based economy would be pretty easy to institute when we are able to replicate any materials, food, fuels, etc.. Anybody getting a replicator for christmas?
naughtypagan72 3 months ago
@naughtypagan72 We have the technology to have more than enough food for everybody in the world and more than enough energy for everybody in the world.
beauxq 3 months ago 2
@naughtypagan72 We don't resources. Our earth is rich in all we need. We don't need replicators. We simply need a high tech industry applied outside of a monetary based system. We don't lack the resources nor the tech. It is all about people feeling helpless and thus not trying to make a move and also about wealthy people who don't want to lose their position. Once the majority will have little left to lose than we shall see change.
TheMarkrafter 3 months ago 2
@TheMarkrafter The Earth certainly has the resources to provide everything for our current population, the problem is what incentive do individuals have for extracting those resources and turning them into useful things and improving the good and the processes that go into improving that good. And what incentive is their for making the tech? Competitive Free Market capitalism provides more incentives to more people.
ShamanMcLamie 1 week ago
@naughtypagan72 We already have 3D printing which allows one to do rapid 3D prototyping. So you can fabricate physical objects quickly. We already know how to grow organic fruits and vegetables from an apartment room in New York City. there are already technologies to help people become completely independant
viscon2011 2 months ago 3
This is real. We all need some basic rules. So we can make them and move one in new era. The world today have more money then they had 50 years ago but with that we have 10x times worse world. Does that tell you something? To me yes!
DragonBoneStudio 3 months ago 10
@DragonBoneStudio This is a perfect example of the "unconstrained" view of man as outlined in Thomas Sowell's book "Conflict of Visions", and a perfect example of Roddenberry's utopia. Problem is, it's simply an unattainable fantasy society, (someone please tell Obama!)
Pichard says "..we are no long obsessed with the accumulation of things..." Give someone a "replicator" and see just how many things they'll make! lol
gcnengineer 3 weeks ago
@gcnengineer If we had replicators, eventually, people would get tired of making things with them. That's the point. Once people saw how truly valueless things were, they would move on and see how stupid they had been to give value to them for so long.
EmperorofCartoons 1 week ago
@EmperorofCartoons The reason they gave things value is because they were limited. The price system created by Supply and Demand is the most efficient form of rationing. In Star Trek you remove supply with replicators, people no longer need to worry about supplying the demand. You don't necessarily make things valueless because I still value food that keeps me alive, I still require and value the vehicle that moves me around and etc. All replicators do is destroy the Price system.
ShamanMcLamie 1 week ago
@DragonBoneStudio
How is the world worse?
MudHut67 2 weeks ago
No money, no wealth, no hunger, no war,no poverty, everyone gets all of their needs and wants met due to possessing(in theory) a molecular self-assembler. An idealistic utopia where society revolves around collectively improving the human race instead of cutthroat competition.
That's a world I would like to live in.
ddd82451 3 months ago
I wonder if Star Trek might have been some of the inspiration behind the Resource Based Economy.
EasternMerchant 3 months ago
wow just wow. I hope it happens
TheMigs101 3 months ago
"Power to control your destiny is an illusion" = "Freedom is an illusion"
johnclawed 3 months ago
@johnclawed he said the power to control someone else's destiny was an illusion
fearlessturk 3 months ago
I think material needs exist solely because of some unfulfilled needs in peoples' lives; because they're unhappy with their jobs and/or their personal lives. It's just easier to make things more available in the form of electronics, media or fashion than it is to do some heavy soul-searching. If what Picard says is true, then everyone has true meaning and fulfillment in their lives 300 years from now. For this to happen, we need to dig deep right now.
ForceMaximus84 3 months ago
No money, no wealth. Everyone has all of their needs and wants fulfilled(everyone lives in mansions, drives fast cars,etc.). On Earth, war and poverty have been eliminated. A society revolving around collectively improving the human race instead of cut-throat competition is a world I want to live in.
ddd82451 3 months ago
I remember an early episode when they said headaches were cured. Really swung for the fences at times...
RickyJ108 4 months ago
I'm sorry but there will be want. The human mind wants all sorts of things. Even with advanced technology we still crave material items.
lastswordfighter 4 months ago
@lastswordfighter There's a difference between wants and needs. There will always be needs, and that includes material things that advance our lives. The systems we have now of cyclical consumption, thats making trash to keep people on the slave treadmill, so that the wealthy prospers. in the future we'll develop products that are made to last, and easily upgradeable. Products now are purposely obsolete shortly after buying them, and are soon off to the landfill. Capitalism is a system of waste.
chuckriggs1 4 months ago 2
@chuckriggs1 There will always be wants. So long as someone has something that you don't you will want it. That's part of the human condition. Even in Star Trek there still those who were haves and had nots. Want has been with a part of humanity since it's ancestors were climbing in trees. You are correct about capitalism creating waste. There's not enough return on the invest so to speak. We just create another piece of technology that requires more energy and does no harm to the environment.
lastswordfighter 4 months ago
@lastswordfighter Madison Avenue rakes in billions of dollars annually to create that condition of want.
chuckriggs1 3 weeks ago
@lastswordfighter Actually, you are describing greed, and thats a trait that is not necessarily universal. Much of that if not all of it, is learned; and in a society where there are NO haves and have nots (There arent in Star Trek, due to replicators being freely available to everyone.), even this could be unlearned.
EmperorofCartoons 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@EmperorofCartoons In nature animals greedily compete for resources all the time even those species that loners and parentless. Being greedy is simply in our DNA having more resources and possessions create a sense of security, because in nature having more resources better ensures one's survival. Being selfless to an extent is also in our nature because working with others improves ones odds of survival, but not as ingrained as greed. It is the Yin and Yang concept we need and have both.
ShamanMcLamie 1 week ago
We certainly did create this system.....hundreds of years ago...we weren't very smart back then were we? Wanting to keep on using this monetary system is about as stupid as wanting to keep on using flint axes.
peterjol 4 months ago
Yeah, you may miss a little, but you gain a hell of a lot.
Ragitsu 4 months ago
Captain Picard is a Hypocrite
watch?v=yMvxsbosdZE
Here is a video showing the Captains obsession with the accumulation things lol
theBartone9119 4 months ago
Ah, mon capitan <3
GoodFortuneOfficial 4 months ago
wow, so if they are speaking like this in the 24th Century, I said Peter J, did a hell of a job!
kvlo1986 4 months ago
Buddha spoke the same way.
pwih1987 4 months ago
3 things are needed for us to have a future such as the one described by Picard, Star Trek only portrayed 2 of them. 1. A device that functions as a Star Trek style replicator or Diamond Age style matter compiler, giving us the ability to eliminate scarcity of specific material resources. 2. Robots with AI and physical capabilities sufficient to perform, at least, any task a human can do. 3. An infinite (or at least so abundant as to be effectively infinite) power source to keep 1 and 2 running.
dividebyxero 4 months ago
Well, I'll be--it's Agent Adam Chance from "Agent for H.A.R.M." as Mr. Offenhouse. I'm sure Mike and the bots would be delighted to see him pop up in Star Trek.
Impextoo 4 months ago
"There is no other definition of Star Trek valid for us than that of the abolition of the exploitation of man by man."
–Che Guevara
shurednichso 4 months ago
" The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century. " -- Cpt.Picard in Star Trek First Contact (1996)
wda013 4 months ago
The comparison of communism and resource economy are incorrect because the resource economy has technology giving individuals infinite access to energy that is either infinite,renewable, or plentiful for instance solar power,hydropower,wind power so energy wars will be unnecessary. Also communism relies on rabid sectarian nationalism where economic/military warfare are unavoidable. You gotta realize the resource economy is what happens when androids can do low skilled repetive work thus freein
OneNationUnderCanada 4 months ago
@OneNationUnderCanada You can have a resource based economy without technology. We could have had a resource based economy before electricity. I suppose it's a loosely termed word but to me it simply means nobody should need to pay for basic resources that they need to survive. A homeless person who just loss his job because some asshole wants a bently should have basic secure resources. Especially in the "richest" country in the world.
G0ttaBeFresh 4 months ago
I originally thought star trek were communist but communism is built on money like capitalism only money gets controlled by the government instead of individuals but a resource economy isn't based on money or even barter . Technology creates open access to infinite energy and replaces low skilled labor while calculating how much resources are accessible to the individual in relation to the renewability of said resource that the individual wishes to consume.
OneNationUnderCanada 4 months ago
I wish this were possible. -_- Screw you, human nature.
TheGuyWithTheSniper 4 months ago
@TheGuyWithTheSniper Human behaviour is determined by the environment, in a society where everything is available for free, there will be no reason to be greedy.
ppsp3 4 months ago
The bad guy is right though, it's not about possessions for the people in power, it's about power, the ability to control a populations life and destiny. This means that even in a Resource Based Economy where everyone has all the needs they want, it wouldn't matter, there will always be people looking to control the general population of the world whether in a monetary system or a resource based economy.
theBartone9119 5 months ago
@theBartone9119 I agree, in order for the "star trek" society to work. Everybody has to live and think that way. Everything that is done is for the good of other people and not ourselves. Not sure how to make it happen though. However, solving the world's energy problems is a good place to start. Michio Kaky says we'll either make it to type 1 or we'll perish.and most civlizations don't make it to type 1.
TheUnknownHarbingers 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheUnknownHarbingers "I agree, in order for the "star trek" society to work. Everybody has to live and think that way."
Well I don't agree. So I guess that means that sooner or later you people will come to shoot me now won't you?
BigDaddyBongos 5 months ago
@TheUnknownHarbingers "Everything that is done for the good of the people and not ourselves." In a RBE what you do for others is also best for yourself.
ConsciousEye8 4 months ago
@theBartone9119 via controlling the supposedly "neutral" "computer" that would determine production methods, distributions, and, the truly retarded assertion: prices.
Folks have taken to calling it the Stalin 9000. :D
BigDaddyBongos 5 months ago
@BigDaddyBongos The "supposedly neutral computer" will be just as "neutral" as the computer that tracks distribution for 7-11 or Best Buy.Too many sci-fi movies are clouding your thinking dude.
ConsciousEye8 4 months ago
@theBartone9119 And why are those people looking to control the general population? When you learn the answer to that question you will realize that RBE could exist.
ConsciousEye8 4 months ago
@ConsciousEye8 They are looking to control the population because they already have everything else. Once you have all the money you could want, the only thing left is control or power. SImple.
theBartone9119 4 months ago
@theBartone9119 Your "simple" assumption is erroneous. It's like saying "once you have a gun in your hand, the only thing left is to kill someone". Having a gun doesn't mean you'll kill just like having money doesn't mean you're power hungry. The root cause of that behavior in certain individuals must be addressed and once the root cause is removed the behavior would cease to exist.
ConsciousEye8 4 months ago
@ConsciousEye8 That gun analogy was retarded, I'm just going to pretend you didn't type that. To pluck the root cause would be to wipe out every human on earth because we all have the capability to do bad things to one another. Basically, you fail to realize that their are men out there with all the resources and money in the world and they are the true criminals. Anyone who claims that crime is based on scarcity needs to get their heads checked, Wall Street have everything they want. Criminals.
theBartone9119 4 months ago
@theBartone9119 I agree that human beings are capable of a very wide range of behavior. And I'm also very aware that there are people out there with all the money in the world and still want more. You still fail to answer the question of WHY someone would act that way. Saying "that's how humans are" or "that's the way the world is" simply demonstrates your lack of understanding of human psychology and behavior. Wall Street is just a magnified manifestation of the scarcity/competitive mindset.
ConsciousEye8 4 months ago
@ConsciousEye8 Don't insult my intelligence by acting like sociological aspects are the only thing that dictate human behavior. Human nature doesn't go away no matter how much evolutionary self progression we may make or how much society changes. In an RBE you could simply bump into someone accidentally and the inner primate would come out like it does now, this is dangerous because the RBE idea entails no police/ courts/ lawyers and assumes people would willingly rehabilitate themselves.
theBartone9119 4 months ago
Comment removed
ConsciousEye8 4 months ago
@theBartone9119 The truth is, our environment is the only thing that dictates our behavior. For what else could? How do you think our "inner primate" behavior developed? "Human nature doesn't go away no matter how much evolutionary self progression we may make or how much society changes." That statement is false. "The RBE idea entails no police/ courts/ lawyers and assumes people would willingly rehabilitate themselves." That statement is also false.
ConsciousEye8 4 months ago
@ConsciousEye8 How did our inner primate behavior develop? Well the fact that we have a common ancestors of apes might have something to do with it. Plus you seem to forget who created the environment we live in, people. How can our environment dictate our actions when we dictate the environment?Construction workers build roads, Future Shop workers sell TV's, McDonald's workers give us fast food, people give Churches money willingly, Preachers preach , Bankers collect interest.
theBartone9119 4 months ago
@theBartone9119 Remember that since the beginning of time we lived in scarcity, so as humans evolved naturally a system was born out of that fundamental reality. Now all the system is doing is self perpetuating the outdated values that created it in the first place. It's a vicious cycle. I challenge you to look within and consider the possibility that your opinions have been forged by the very environment that you were brought up in.
ConsciousEye8 4 months ago
@ConsciousEye8 Besides the grass, lakes, trees, oceans, mountains and things of that nature, our whole environment was built by humans. This takes me back to my previous point, if you want to pluck the root problem you would have to wipe out humans as a whole considering we created the environment that supposedly we are a product of according to you. People just have to live with the fact that we are an imperfectly evolved primate and that there will never be a general consensus regarding policy
theBartone9119 4 months ago
@theBartone9119 "Humans are too tribal for RBE" is simply the voice of someone conditioned by a tribal society. A tribal society that had its place in a history, but is now what's threatening our very existence. Humans are conditioned by their environment. Period. This is scientifically proven there's nothing to argue there. Nobody said it would be an easy or comfortable transition, but our future will be very bleak if we do not evolve.
ConsciousEye8 4 months ago
@ConsciousEye8 An organism at war with itself? Sounds like humans not the system lol You say we have a tribal society, but why is that? It's because humans are tribal, it has nothing to do with the society it's simply human nature (something that wacko Fresco pretends doesn't exist). For instance, the Zeitgeist movement is a tribe, a cult. The OWS is a tribe, same with Anon with their V for Vendetta masks....You can't say it has to do with the society, because who built the society? Humans......
theBartone9119 4 months ago
@ConsciousEye8 I think people like you are too scared to look at the real root cause of our problems, it's us. Our environment doesn't build us, we build it. Were banks always here? Were churches? No, We built the banks, we built the churches, how can anyone in their right mind say we are simply a product of our environment when WE created the environment.....Think about it.
theBartone9119 4 months ago
@ConsciousEye8 Saying that I have been conditioned to the system is a cop out argument and you know it, you simply fail to realize that we created the environment you claim created us lol I think you are backwards in your thinking...
theBartone9119 4 months ago
@ConsciousEye8 Humans are too tribal for a RBE. You have Republicans, Democrats, The Tea Party, Israel, Palestine, China and US tensions rising and having market wars ect. To think humans would collectively get together for an RBE is nothing more than a pipe dream.
theBartone9119 4 months ago
@theBartone9119 While technology has magnified the negative effect of humanity's scarcity mindset, fortunately it's also evolved to level where we can meet the needs of everyone on the planet. The current system is flawed at its core and what we're witnessing is the beginning of it's inevitable breakdown. An organism at war with itself is doomed. It's time to evolve. I wish you the best brother.
ConsciousEye8 4 months ago
Comment removed
knglerxst 5 months ago
Great scene. One of my favorites from the series. I love the part right before this scene where the guy says, "I have a substantial portfolio!" Cracks me up everytime.
knglerxst 5 months ago
I'm surprised that moron The Green Voter hasn't reared his empty head around here yet!
mrjjking77 5 months ago
@mrjjking77 Give it time. :D
BigDaddyBongos 5 months ago
The argument that you have "power" to control your "life & destiny" in a monetary system is not very well thought out. In a monetary system, you are generally dependent upon someone providing you money (usually through a wage) by being lucky enough to find someone willing to purchase your labor.
Without money - you have no purchasing power. Without purchasing power, you will have no access to food, shelter, clothing or much of anything else - unless someone is kind enough to give it to you.
GarrettThomasUTube 5 months ago
Now thats a future I would like to live in.
Excelion333 6 months ago 54
@Excelion333 do away with greed, money, it could happen
altha2008 5 months ago
@Excelion333
As a great mind once said...
You must be the change you would like to see in the world.
In order for this future to ever come about, you must be willing to treat our current world AS THOUGH it's already how you wish.
Be kind, generous, and try to improve yourself.
Detach yourself from the compulsive desire to accumulate things.
TheReasonWhyGuy 5 months ago
@Excelion333 I seriously believe that we are slowly coming to such a world. Right now in fact.
LordHannigan 4 months ago
@Excelion333 ask & thy shall receive: check out unitinghumans dotcom thevenusproject dotcom or thezeitgeistmovement dotcom 2 b introduced 2 others who r moving in this direction. A movement beyond politics, poverty & war. And with the Occupy movements happening, the global family is uniting & looking 2 create something better. Well, we've the knowledge, resources & technology (used wisely by this current generation)to create a future as Picard describes. It is happening NOW! Luv,Mamma D "^_^"
lspmd2 4 months ago
oh captain my captain
kenmabie 6 months ago 29
@kenmabie the captain is dead in that poem
captaindrywall 4 months ago
@captaindrywall yea no shit... i wasnt using it as a reference to linclon being my captian... dumb fuck know it all know nothings acting like they taught you somthing .. oh also i know its a walk whitman poem dumb fuck he was alson a faggot and a racist ... so whats your point?
kenmabie 4 months ago
@kenmabie so as you can see my nicname is captaindrywall, and people say all the time captain my captain, so one day i look it up wow its a poem and the captain is dead. I didnt know, they didnt know. I thought you didnt know. but instead your just a jerk.
captaindrywall 3 months ago
@captaindrywall aww did i upset the poor illerteriate bastard that doesnt know anything because they didnt pay attention in school.... and the fucking captian in walts poem you moron is PRESIDENT LINCOLN... you know fords theater ... john wilks booth.... sic sempere tyranus all that good shit, get off the inter net you dumb fuck and read a book
kenmabie 3 months ago
@kenmabie Just because your on the internet, and quit removed from the physical presents of another person, do you really have to speak in such fashion? Would you stand in front of a 55 year old man and swear as such to his face. No, I doubt you would. As i didn't read this peom in school, I just looked it up i see no reason i could ever gleen such information from it as you seem to have gotten from a teacher in school. You man be more comfortable standing on Wall st. protestiing.
captaindrywall 3 months ago
@captaindrywall "Would you stand in front of a 55 year old man and swear as such to his face. No, I doubt you would. "
you dont know me very well do you ... want me to say it to your face then come see me at 9417 charter creek drive ashland va 23005, at eh same name listed here as my account name, and if youre 55 years old and havent read walt witman i now know what your problem is .. your school failed you. so how about you shut the fuck up old man and go choke on a sack of baby dicks
kenmabie 3 months ago
@captaindrywall also moron your age has nothing to do with your intelligence or my respect for you ... respect is earned not given freely, you acting like a know it all as seen above when in reality you knew nothing and had it blow up ni your face isnt diserving of my respect and makes me question yoru intelligence... you sir are an idiot ... good day
kenmabie 3 months ago
@captaindrywall oh and did i mention im from philly ... where theres the WALT WHITMAN BRIDGE... i think i know somthing about him ... my comment wasnt in reference to a mountian man looking homo who thought "the abolitionist movement as a threat to democracy" it was in reference to a sexy bald man who was taling about how wonderful a resource based economy is ... now checw on that dicknugget
kenmabie 4 months ago
@kenmabie If only i were Christian, i'd pray for you.
captaindrywall 3 months ago
@captaindrywall wow you just cant stop can you ? well heres some more attention faggot!
kenmabie 3 months ago
Awww I'm outta butter, no more ANZAC biscuits :-(
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 Argument please? How is just as informative as a Chevron commercial?
bmatthews15 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@bmatthews15 Zeitgeist is full of crap set to music. Most of the information is incorrect but that doesn't matter because it's goal is not to appeal to rational thought but to break through using the same emotional techniques as politicians, oil commercials and "current affairs" TV programs.
Read Aldus Huxley's essay - "Propaganda in a democratic society"
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 what info is incorrect bro?
DJKAYZEE 7 months ago
@DJKAYZEE Do your own research. nuff said.
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 i have man, and it seems like im far ahead of you when it comes to that
DJKAYZEE 7 months ago
@DJKAYZEE Cool you should be able to formulate your own view instead of regurgitating some music hype video then. Glad you're so much more advanced a human then anyone else.
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 So far you have not offered one single coherent argument based on critical thinking.
Instead of whining pointlessly with retarded insignificant labels and whatever worthless garbage you come up with, point out exactly where you disagree.
The behavior you display is exactly what you claim that the documentary series "supposedly" is, in your "opinion".
And are you referring to all 3 of them? Or the old, 1st 'movie' (which wasn't even anything)?
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio I have no motivation to explain, prove, or persuade you of anything. Simply saying that some trendy music video "positive" propaganda isn't the best source of critical information and can never be taken seriously as "a movement". Take that as you like, instead of asking me to disprove/prove something.
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 (cont) basically the idea is to improve society using the best known scientific method with the interest for the well-being of society; and to do that one needs to understand what behavior is, how it is shaped by the environment, and how our current society plays a role in it.
There is no 'perfect' anything; it's about minimizing the atrocities we see in our society such as hunger, corruption, greed, poverty, wars for profit. Behaviors that are heavily affected by upbringing.
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio If you'd like to discuss rather then rave-on about some "movement", then please refer to my point. If you believe humans can sustainably live on 1 planet without first consuming all it's resources, please explain to me how. If you believe a simple bit of emotional irrational prositive propaganda constitutes information of high reliability then so be it, just don't ask me to cite each of the instances where it side-steps reality. I'm sure you can find good critics of it on google.
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 I've been searching for "good critics" of it and those seem to not exist; there's a few obvious downsides such as how to transition into such a system, which are only mentioned by people who can actually grasp the entirety of this type of idea for a change to society and they don't try to futilely debate against it, but rather, improve upon it.
And all the rest are typically raving retarded sheep; very much like the behavior you're expressing now.
And the pre-conceived notions
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio So your point is that the average human is too stupid to understand your prefered "solution"?
I can see this solution going a long way..........
Ever noticed how much you try to make yourself bigger by making wild assumptions in an effort to belittle people you know nothing about?
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 And where the hell did anyone make any assumptions?
What are you even talking about?
Listen to yourself. You sound like some crazy fanatic.
Absolutely zero reasoning.
Who are you even trying to fool?
....Really?
somebungholio 7 months ago
@mryellow123 You have yet to give an argument.
Which movie are you referring to and which part.
Point out what you think is "wrong".
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio For what do you wish me to provide an argument?
oh the movie.... who cares... like I've said already I have no interest in dissecting it with citations here in youtube comments.... That would be even more retarded then this current "conversation".
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 That just says you have no interest in learning and bettering yourself as an individual.
You said you disagree with it, yet you're not saying why.
somebungholio 7 months ago
To hold an opinion I must argue it on youtube?
I didn't actually say I disagree with it.
I said it was a clever approach to spreading a message using the same tools as the corporate world. Namely propaganda which appeals to emotion. It works very well for this. However it is not the end-point.
If one is "enlighented" by this form of communication then that is all well and good. From that point on, rather then end-less regurgitation, actually forming your own opinion can only be good.
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 The way information presented is actually quite irrelevant if that information is valid.
If you're crossing the street, and a person behind you yells like a maniac "OH MY FUCKING GOD, CAR! STOP YOU IDIOT!", would you ignore their warning and let the car hit you?
Extreme example although on a similar basis.
Also; do you think it's not possible that people who live in this very system itself could not be informed just by experiencing it?
somebungholio 7 months ago
@mryellow123 (cont) Quite a number of people I've spoken with, including myself, already knew much of the information presented in the series; although it did have a very good amount of detail about all ifs inner workings.
We're living in it.
Do you believe our current society does not need improvement?
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio See what you're doing?
If I think you are awesome then:
I am not interested in growing as a human.
Think society doesn't need any further evolution.
As for information presentation methods being irrelevant.... Did you read the Huxley I cited? There are very large differences between emotional and rational propaganda. Sure convincing "the lowest common denominator" with some emotional arguments is all well and good..... I've already said that 3 times now.
mryellow123 7 months ago
@somebungholio lets end this here.
I think you are awesome.
I am just a moron.
Everything you say is always the only truth.
mryellow123 7 months ago
@somebungholio If you still haven't picked it up yet...... We aren't even talking about the same things. You are just talking to yourself and I'm the "opposition" for you to "win" against.
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 It sounds more like you perceive this series as the "opposition". Since you've been making so many fanatical claims against it, must have caused you pain in some way so you feel like you have to be "out for revenge" or something; although it's quite futile to try to go against an idea when you do not even know what the idea really is.
What you're doing now is word-twisting to make it sound as if I'm saying something way out of context from what we're actually discussing.
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio No I made a very simple statement relating to the method of communication used by your favourite movie and you took it to heart and felt the overwhelming need to go on the defencive.
I'm going to bake some ANZAC biscuits... want some?
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 You just said exactly what you yourself are doing.
Yet again you show absolutely no example of what you're even trying to "argue" against.
Which aspect do you disagree with?
Give an accurate explanation of what the problem actually is.
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio "Propaganda in favor of action dictated by the impulses that are below self-interest offers false, garbled or incomplete evidence, avoids logical argument and seeks to influence its victims by the mere repetition of catchwords, by the furious denunciation of foreign or domestic scapegoats, and by cunningly associating the lowest passions with the highest ideals"
Aldous Huxley
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 And how do you relate that; where did you see this type of "propaganda" being shown and why do you believe that specific part of what you saw is unacceptable?
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio read back a few pages......
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 The only real question I see you present is:
"Do you believe humans can live in a sustainable society?"
What exactly is that; by "sustainable" do you mean "never run out of resources"?
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio So you've found something new to disagree with me about other then Zeitgeist not being the most fantastic thing ever?
mryellow123 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@mryellow123 "So you've found something new to disagree with me about other then Zeitgeist not being the most fantastic thing ever?"
And where the hell did you come up with that?
You've done so much word-twisting at this point I'd be really surprised if anyone other than me is still even reading this garbage you keep making up.
Ask something relevant.
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio Just in-case you missed it the last 3-4 times.
I do not disagree with the ideas. I simple state that one should form their own opinions rather then repeating catchphrase propaganda. I go on to say that "fighting fire with fire" as Zeitgeist does, is a good thing, up to a point.
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 I answered that earlier: the Zeitgeist series (talking about all 3 movies) is generally not new information to me, I've already experienced those failures of our system for quite a while (and it's still getting worse, as we can see around us), but it does have good detailing of all the inner mechanics for how it all really works.
So I already had the basis of my opinion simply from experience.
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio Congrats, you must be awesome.
Was there something else you wanted me to say?
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 Yes, answer this.
50 or 100 years from now, when your grand-kids or future relatives read this on the internet; what will they think?
What if our so-called "economy" is in such collapse that you don't even have a future generation?
What about now; do you think the situation is fine? Can you say for sure that with our current system, it will not get worse?
Are you aware of what is happening?
somebungholio 7 months ago
@somebungholio I'm sure they'll be happy in their walled cities to keep out the toxic dump which surrounds them. If they manage to design better walls.
So now I'm saying everything is great and fine? Ok... I'll say whatever you say I say.
You're as bad as a fundamentalist christian mate... "I knew the real truth first!!! Prove it doesn't exist!!! Go on!!! You can't!!!"
How is having a conversation with yourself going for you? Looks pretty funny from here.
mryellow123 7 months ago
@mryellow123 "I'm sure they'll be happy in their walled cities to keep out the toxic dump which surrounds them. If they manage to design better walls."
A toxic dump? Explain what kind of circumstances cause that; how did you come up with this idea?
"So now I'm saying everything is great and fine? Ok... I'll say whatever you say I say."
................................ What? Where did you come up with that?
somebungholio 7 months ago