So let me get this straight... In order to make healthcare more accessible and affordable, You have to pass a law forcing americans under penalty of fine and/or prison time to purchase insurance?
That's like saying you want every american to have the opportunity to get access to an affordable car so we will pass a law forcing every american to buy one!
I'm Black and I know for a fact that this dude doesn't care about Black people. Los Angeles is still filled with drugs, prosties and lil funky assed gang bangers who think this city is theirs. B.O isn't doin' shit for anyone except creating an illusion that he's helping. I and other hard working individuals in my neighborhood have degrees, military histories and respect for each other and we cannot get jobs. Unless you wanna be a nurse. You can go to Everest College and get in on that shit. :-(
Why did the U.S needs obama to finally put a medical system like this? about time you see it cannot works. Speaking of the man...why is there so many people that hates him?
Why did the U.S needs obama to finally put a medical system like this? about time you see it cannot works. Speaking of the man...why is there so many people that hates him?
@MrParasite1 Why do people not like mr oblama? Simple, he's a Fence Post Turtle: He has Zero Experience in; * Budgeting & Finance * Science & Technology * Foreign Affairs * DOD / National Guard * Health Care / Medical Issues * Military Matters * State's Rights etc, etc, etc
Yes, it does. But as everyone will tell you, the dumocrats are going to fall on the oblama sword. Come November, The American People (not illegal aliens) will show them how much we don't want government run or mandated Health Care.
@Unklebillybob it's not unconstitutional. you'll see when it gets through the courts. there's too much precedent against them (i.e. social security, car insurance). you should know that, though, mr "i have more degrees than barack obama."
@rysw19 Here we go again! Let me bring this down to you in RDV, so you can understand. Congress has no authority to force 100% of American Citizen to purchase any commodity. Congress has no authority to fine or imprision any American Citizen who do not wish to purchase an unwanted commodity.
Unfortunately, for you, you picked two examples where 100% of Americans are not required to purchase them. Did you want to try something else?
@Unklebillybob congress forces us all to buy insurance against old age (it's called social security). the difference is that with social security, the government makes you buy it from them, with the new hc bill you buy it in the private sector. maybe, as a conservative, you'd prefer the government just went to a single-payer system?
the fact is you're wrong. they wouldn't have bothered using reconciliation if the courts would throw it out anyway. you'll see when it fails in court.
@rysw19 Again, you're totally wrong! It is not mandated that 100% of all Americans buy into or can accept social security. I'm not going to argue with you on this one any more. You're wrong and failed to research the facts.
@Unklebillybob how can you even say that? if you pay taxes in this country (or have ever paid taxes) then you have paid for social security. it's the largest part of our national budget.
@rysw19 Step-By-Step, then. "If you pay taxes", Then that would eliminate all of those who don't pay taxes. In mr oblama's health care law, Everyone, no matter if they work, don't work, pay taxes, don't pay taxes, are very young or very old, are mandated to pay for mr oblama's health care.
As for social security,,,,Who runs it? And what kind of shape is social security in, today, by being run by the government?
@Unklebillybob no, step by step, if you live in the us, you pay taxes. you pay sales taxes, and every other kind of tax, which is passed on to consumers.
@rysw19 i must've replied to the wrong message for this sentence. this one is supposed to be above, and i think i copied and pasted wrong. anyhow, you get the idea. people expect more from the us government than people pay in taxes. that's just the way it is. it's the reason we have a budget deficit instead of a surplus -- we spend more than we take in. doesn't take a genius to figure it out, and saying, "cut taxes and stop regulation!" doesn't work. that's what got us here in the first place.
Congratulations to the American people for still dreaming and fighting to see some of their dreams come true......This man is saying the truth....There is still hope....Greetings from Greece
@partymartyrocks: They'll have to roll back the Bush tax cuts. It's time the wealthiest started contributing something. In fact, roll back the Reagan tax cuts.
JESUS would want every American to have health insurance, illness to be treated, sick people not be discriminated against, and not be bankrupt by lack of health care. Thank you JESUS. I LOVE U. PRAISE THE LORD!
Why would Doctors support a Bill that taxes them, > $200,000? They have seen enough abuse by the Insurance Companies against their patients: deny treatments, changing drug formulary, drop coverage, preexisting condition exclusion, & Medicare drug GAP for Senior. Dont ever get sick or in an accident, you will be bankrupted & screwed by Insurance. House Passed !!
Obama knows best. He can run all businesses. We can just go to work for Obama and he can give us an allowance for the week. Maybe I can work two jobs so the people that don't like to work can stay at home and have more kids.
No one is going to deny that our current Health Care System needs repairs. However, Nieither nancy ( The Democrats Are In Charge) pileosii, nor harry( We've Lost The War) reid, or even barrack hussein( I'm Bringing the American People Chains & Chains is What You Get) oblama have the knowledge, skills or ability to fix this broken system.
We need to kick these three posers and hire/elect people who have the Knowledge, Skills & Ability to Get-The-Job-Done.
Why would Doctors support a Bill that taxes them, > $200,000? They have seen enough abuse by the Insurance Companies against their patients: deny treatments, changing drug formulary, drop coverage, preexisting condition exclusion, & Medicare drug GAP for Senior. Dont ever get sick or in an accident, you will be bankrupted & screwed by Insurance.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
November 5, 2009 — The American Medical Association (AMA) supports a massive healthcare reform bill in the US House of Representatives that may come to a vote this Saturday, but the voting can't stop there, AMA President J. James Rohack, MD, said today.
MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE. Former Congressman Billy Tauzin, REPUBLICAN-La., who steered part d through the House, retired soon after and took a $2 million a year job as president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the main industry lobbying group. Obama Bill will close 50 % of Medicare donut hole, 75% by 2020. Republican want 100% donut hole to continue benefits the Insurance and Pharma. Close the donut hole to help Senior.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN HAVE INSURANCE, but outrageous premium, deny surgical, drug treatment based on arbitrary profit driven criteria is IMMORAL. Tumor 0.1 inch over limits no treatment for you. MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS are still one accident, one serious illness, or one chronic disease away from declaring Bankruptcy. Only if you are lucky enough to receive treatments & live long enough to file one. System is broken and failed MIDDLE CLASS that is why there is an outcry for reform.
When asked, Do you want the new health care reform program now being considered in congress, below were the following results:
53% Oppose 46% Strongly Oppose
43% Favor 23% Strongly Favor
The majorityof Americans want this current Proposed Health Care Reform Package to be tossed into the Garbage Can. And for congress to start-all-over-again. But include the American People's Input.
NO! NO! NO! to this health care bill; it all sounds good when Obama gets on the air waves blowing smoke up people's ASS! What he isn't saying is under this new Health Care Plan the parents or parent with children has to keep there child on there health care plan until they reach the age 26! I've always been a Democrat and even voted for Obama, but I must agree with the rep on this one there is parts of this bill that really "stinks", and the public is in for a very rude awaking should this pass.
It's under handed, it's pushing their will on the people. Most Americans want this tabled and put on c-span so We can hear the pros and cons of this bill. They are cowardly.
(somebody who anonymously harms those who cannot defend themselves)
Looks like we can't defend ourselves as they are going to do what they want anyway!
Go get them, get rid of this Unregulated Greedy B.A.S.T.A.R.D, who would rather see American die, just for making a buck. Tax on income $200,000 or more actually reverse the $ 2 Trillion Tax Breaks given to the rich during Bush Era, which was passed under simple majority vote. No Government takeover because no single payer in this bill. MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN WINS no new tax, affordable, secure, and comprehensive coverage!
Why would Doctors support a Bill that taxes them, > $200,000? They have seen enough abuse by the Insurance Companies against their patients: deny treatments, changing drug formulary, drop coverage, preexisting condition exclusion, & Medicare drug GAP for Senior. Dont ever get sick or in an accident, you will be bankrupted & screwed by Insurance.
November 5, 2009 — The American Medical Association (AMA) supports a massive healthcare reform bill in the US House of Representatives that may come to a vote this Saturday, but the voting can't stop there, AMA President J. James Rohack, MD, said today.
MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE. Former Congressman Billy Tauzin, REPUBLICAN-La., who steered part d through the House, retired soon after and took a $2 million a year job as president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the main industry lobbying group. Obama Bill will close 50 % of Medicare donut hole, 100% by 2020. Republican want 100% donut hole to continue benefits the Insurance and Pharma. Close the donut hole to help Senior.
MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN HAVE INSURANCE, but outrageous premium, deny surgical, drug treatment based on arbitrary profit driven criteria is IMMORAL. Tumor 0.1 inch over limits no treatment for you. MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS are still one accident, one serious illness, or one chronic disease away from declaring Bankruptcy. Only if you are lucky enough to receive treatments & live long enough to file one. System is broken and failed MIDDLE CLASS that is why there is an outcry for reform.
MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN HAVE INSURANCE, but outrageous premium, deny surgical, drug treatment based on arbitrary profit driven criteria is IMMORAL. Tumor 0.1 inch over limits no treatment for you. MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS are still one accident, one serious illness, or one chronic disease away from declaring Bankruptcy. Only if you are lucky enough to receive treatments & live long enough to file one. System is broken and failed MIDDLE CLASS that is why there is an outcry for reform.
Amen noformstyle! My son-in-law and daughter are text book middle class Americans. My son-in-law is a General Manager for a Ford dealership, (non-union position). He pays $785 a month for his insurance and Ford pays the other $785. That premium really puts a dent in their income. And I guarantee you that if one of them got seriously ill, we would have to hire an attorney to make sure the insurance company paid. If anyone out there thinks our system isn't fucked up, they live in a cave!
It may be fucked up, but if anyone thinks that Government can run it better, then they 'are living in a cave' - Government has already proven repeatedly that they are incompetent and corrupt.
Really funny story you have there. More drama from phillip's personal fiction shelf. Unless their area has a rather high income / expense ratio, then there's no way in hell they're paying that much for health insurance. And you also forgot to mention what percentage of their income this health insurance is. And I like the non union part... Really completes your partisan fantasy story. I assume you've never worked non union in your life then? Its not as bad as your mafia thug union reps told you.
So over 60% of the Americans that's against health care reform are rich? Because the latest REAL polls show this amount opposed. I think you got some splan'in to do lucy.
Why would Doctors support a Bill that taxes them, > $200,000? They have seen enough abuse by the Insurance Companies against their patients: deny treatments, changing drug formulary, drop coverage, preexisting condition exclusion, & Medicare drug GAP for Senior. Dont ever get sick or in an accident, you will be bankrupted & screwed by Insurance.
The AMA may be for it for political reasons, but the majority of Dr.s do not support the bill, they will not get paid by the gov't which is already essentially bankrupt. If gov't could run Medicare/ Medicaid into the ground the what makes you think that they can keep a much larger program afloat? Gov't run Health Care SUCKS. Read todays news on Social Security re: collecting IOU's from the gov't. The more politicians and lawyers get involved in HC the worse it will get, it's a racket!!!!!
MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE. Former Congressman Billy Tauzin, R-La., who steered the bill through the House, retired soon after and took a $2 million a year job as president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the main industry lobbying group. The Bill will close 50 % of Medicare donut hole, 100% by 2020. Republican want 100% donut hole to continue benefits the Insurance and Pharma. Close the donut hole to help Senior.
(4) EFFECTIVE DATE- The amendments made by this subsection shall apply to consultations furnished on or after January 1, 2011. (b) Expansion of Physician Quality Reporting Initiative for End of Life Care- (1) Physician'S QUALITY REPORTING INITIATIVE- Section 1848(k)(2) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-4(k)(2)) (A) IN GENERAL-- the Secretary shall include quality measures on end of life care and advanced care planning that have been adopted or endorsed by a consensus-based organization
You stupid liberals, used like some hoe by the dumpster. No cares, thrown to the side like used trash and licked ice baggie. Tomorrow Uberzone and the Bassbin triwns will be at the Lizard lounge at Dallas. Stupid Fuskes!
No one wants your bureucratic bullshit, government run healthcare. New flash you stupid liberals: 1930 Germany has gone and passed you by. Your grandpa already died on on the Russian front. Fascism is all over bitches.
You keep hearing the stupid loaded question "How many people die without health care insurance?" A study says 45,000 people die every year in the US for lack of health care insurance.
My question is "How many people die every year in the US with health care insurance?"
Approximately 2.5 million people die in the US every year. The study says 45,000 out of 2.5 million die from lack of health care insurance.
Conclusion: More people die with health care insurance, than without!
Okay, so you concluded that the mortality rate for people with health insurance is 100%. Don't buy health insurance, because it's obviously LETHAL!
But if you're interested in reading the actual study, here it is. While everybody dies of old age eventually, the study lists the mortality rate of people with or without insurance by age group.
pnhp. org/excessdeaths/health-insurance-and-mortality-in-US-adults. pdf
@TrollBuster9090 LOL Your hilarious too! That's not an actual study and you know it! That is your opinion of what you think is an actual study, when in reality, it is a biased report with a few facts, all dressed up to look good on paper only. Studies like this are for uninformed people like you, looking for a quick fix, who can't put 2 and 2 together, much less tell fact from fiction. LOL Nice try!
So you think that a peer-reviewed study, conducted by six M.D./MPH researchers at Harvard Medical School, and published in the American Journal of Public Health is not an "actual" study?
The National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) disagrees with you, because they also list it
ncbi. nlm. nih. gov/pubmed/19762659
As well as the earlier 1993 study that it refers to, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association
@TrollBuster9090, You failed to mention to your audience that there is disagreement and a "no consensus" among the medical community concerning the validity and methodology of this peer reviewed material. Just because something is peer reviewed, doesn't make it a fact.
Use of vague, exaggerated or untestable claims
Over-reliance on confirmation rather than refutation
The mortality rate is 100% for everyone. EVERYONE is born with a terminal condition called LIFE. Try as you may, you will not survive it. And you're not going to leave this world alive. What are the lifestyles of the people in the study? There are more variables than just health insurance. Driving habits, eating habits, exercise, smoking or not, drinking habits, the neighborhood you live in, whether or not there is mold in the home... Factor that in. Wanna bet it makes a difference?
Yes, terrible science... Just like climategate. And I agree. They'd be retarded if they didn't take that in to account. But tell me. Exactly how DO you take such things in to account? Especially when they were most likely getting their information from either medical charts or autopsy reports.
they take those things into account by sampling people with a broad range of conditions. eg sampling not just healthy people, but also people with cancer, etc. the study itself should explain how it does these things
peer review is a BRUTAL process. scientists do not fuck around when it comes to ideas
"climategate" is the result of the politicization of science. i recognized that years ago. it's one of the reasons i've withheld any opinion on it, especially considering the complexity of earth
And this subject isn't politicized? Ok, so it takes in to account condition. But does it take in to account other factors? Their medical charts couldn't possibly have all the details, and unlikely to have ANY details on their living conditions or diet and exercise habits. Not to mention the fact that a good portion of your ability to survive something like cancer is how you handle the diagnosis mentally. There's been a long running debate over whether or not to tell patients.
Because of the effect psychology has on the healing process. Well, do you really think it's impossible any of the people on the uninsured side MIGHT have maybe had a more grim outlook psychologically? Do you really think it impossible that there might be more of a leaning towards such a mentality? Ask a person with confidence about being successful at anything. Now ask someone that doesn't have much about the same topic. Psychology plays a bigger role than health insurance in my opinion
And what you failed to see was my argument wasn't about if they took in to account what they had. My argument goes deeper. They didn't have all the facts on everyone. They couldn't have. There is more to health than what is wrong with you and if you're seeing a doctor or not. There's having a suitable climate in your home, clean air, a clean home, clean drinking water, drinking water rather than soda or beer, eating healthy, regular exercise. They couldn't have possibly factored those in
you underestimate them. they most definitely took those things into account by sampling people from different income brackets, backgrounds, ethnicities, etc. that's plain common sense for these kinds of studies... your suggestion of these things would insult their intelligence. they are wayyyyyyy ahead of you
@Techra, lol and by the same token you're overestimating them. You have no clue what they took into account to come up with the number 45,000. Like I commented earlier, a majority of the medical community disagree with these findings, something you didn't hear from the progressive liberal media. You comment as though the Medical Sciences are without fault and have not been politicized. Yes, I think they're wayyy ahead of you, insulting your intelligence, hook line and stinker! Brutal process LOL
1) can you show me where you found that "the majority of the medical community" disagrees with the study? lol !
2) i don't know everything they took into account because i haven't looked at the study. you can check the study itself if you're that curious LOL !
the stuff that you guys are saying "they didn't take into account" is OBVIOUS. i learned about trivial shit like that in a general. ed. class in college, nevermind a major-specific course in a serious university like Harvard
It is widely debated, but Wash U. says choices and freedoms come into play and when governments are involved you can't be sure everything is on a level playing field. We have heard stories for years how babies that die early after death.
We have more guns, loggers, wide open roads/cars, more disposable income, eat more sugar, weigh more, and have one group of Americans with a very bad genetic predisposition to systemic disease, etc.
Why is Obama forgetting to mention the senate bill has $500 Billion in new taxes and $500 Billion in medicare cuts? Why does he think cutting medicare when it has a $74 TRILLION unfunded commitment is a good idea.
How can a bill that produces ten years of revenue and only 6 years of benefits be deficit neutral?
The bottom line this has disaster written all over it.
Let's not forget Obama said a doctor got paid $40,000 or $50,000 or $60,000 to amputate a foot for a diabetic so that is a lot of money why would he help a diabetic control their diabetes?
In reality that number is at least 30X's-60X's off.
He has called doctors a bunch of butchers for hire. My favorite one was talking about how ENT's removed too many tonsils when Obama has no clue how enlarged tonsils affect facial/nasal growth during early childhood and the damage is permanent.
It's no underestimate to state that it's not possible that they even had everything they needed. Do you think they followed all these people around before their death? I'm not saying they were being sloppy and not including the information. I'm saying that there's now way in hell they could have possibly had the information to include it. Different income brackets can't cover it. Neither can background or ethnicity. You need very intimate details.
Oh, no, the Republicans are not the only ones getting bribed. I have created a list of Democrats that have been bribed by the PHI industry and have been on a mission to post these evil fucks on every YouTube video possible. The GOP is by far in the pockets of the private health insurance industry, way more then the Democrats. Vote every single one of these assholes out of office, both the Republicans and Democrats.
Lol, let me guess. The only possible way any politician could be against this bill is if they're being paid off by a health insurance company. Couldn't possibly be that our bonds are becoming worthless from all the spending we're doing. Couldn't possibly be that the dollar is on the verge of collapse. Couldn't possibly be that it is unconstitutional. Couldn't possibly be that the people that voted them in are giving them a clear NO. I'll say it again. You are blind and a tool
Uh...if you/he had actually looked at any of the links I provided, you'd have seen that all of those things were factored into the study, and corrected for before the mortality risk factor for not having insurance was calculated. But since you guys have essentially said that there's no such thing as a scientific study (ie-'climategate) I'm wasting my time talking to you anyway.
The links are there for anybody who's seriously interested in the truth.
You're talking about this study as if they could have controlled EVERY possible variable. If you REALLY know the scientific process you'd know that's impossible. I can already tell you're full of shit. You're telling me that they compiled EVERY aspect of the lives of those in the study? Bunk! There is too much left up to chance. The only way to get a REAL scientific finding would be to keep these people in a controlled environment.
You are pretty good at baffling with bullshit. Congress consists of the House and Senate.
As for the Domcrat controlled Congress, unforunately the Dems are getting bribed by lobbyists just as the GOP is. As long as we allow legal bribes appoved by the US Supreme Court, nothing will change.
@phillipmarch22 So you're saying your story WAS bullshit? Listen to you blaming Republicans for everything, saying Democrats are getting bribed, and failing to protest or express any anger about it. You're a tool. You're an absolute sucker for partisan politics. You never were truly independent. If you were you wouldn't be spending so much time defending one corrupt party and pointing fingers at another. It's unfortunate when dems take bribes and criminal when the gop does it? Moron
don't you think the researches know that obvious stuff? not only that, there are statistical methods to figure out *how confident* they are in their results. so not only do they know sampling X people is not the same as sampling every single person in the U.S., there is math that can determine how good their results are
what you're trying to argue is that because the scientific method can't be trusted 100%, it's completely useless
What I'm saying is they don't have all the facts. And since they used some degree of the scientific method people are taking it as proven science. There's enough not taken in to account that I can safely assume that it's a study that could have been spun to fit an agenda. How do you justify blaming the health care system for people making their own decisions? Everyone SHOULD be able to get health care. That doesn't oblige me to have to pay for theirs, or be penalized for eating a doughnut.
they *don't need* "all the facts." that's the point of statistics -- to quantify to as high a degree as possible these complex systems by accounting for minutiae in terms of probability
you keep harking on simple checkers when these Harvard researchers are always dealing with chess
and are you saying people can decide whether or not a high-energy photon from the sun decides to fuck with the DNA of one of their skin cells? things aren't that simple
"There are 3 types of lies. Lies, Damned lies, and statistics". You're right I'm harking on simple checkers. It's the Harvard researchers that are wrong for trying to turn it in to chess. There's an acronym entrepreneurs use constantly. K.I.S.S.- Keep it simple stupid. The more complex you make something, the more likely it will go wrong. If you don't believe me, try to figure out what they mean by derivatives. It's as simple as this, what are a persons priorities? And who aims to be average?
none of that is specific criticism of this study. just because some people lie with statistics doesn't mean these researches lied with statistics
do you believe Harvard researchers are going to risk their careers by fabricating some shit that will be discovered in the FIRST MINUTE of peer review by people that are much harder to trick than laypeople are? look what happened to the cold fusion guy. bad faith science is not tolerated AT ALL
derivative - pointwise rate of change of a function?
Then explain climategate? I don't trust them like you do. My first instinct is to ALWAYS question those that want some sort of control over you. You liberals were completely against giving government any more control only 2 years ago. Are you really naive enough to think there will never be a Republican majority again? If you're playing the partisan game then AT LEAST be smart enough not to give government power you don't trust the other party with
after 'climategate' investigations are done, any bad faith scientists will not be able to publish another paper or be taken seriously ever again. that's what happened to the cold fusion guy
scientists are incredibly objective people that take truth very seriously, which is why peer review is so brutal, why bad scientists are never given second chances, and why "intelligent design" could never so much as get within 1 mile of serious scientific discourse
With any luck you'll be right about that. Because if there is any actual man made climate change (a premise I obviously don't buy) then these people have destroyed the credibility of the real evidence.
i think i know where the confusion is. you're thinking they said "people are worse off because they don't have insurance" when what they're actually saying is "people without insurance are worse off." these are 2 very different things as you have been trying to point out (my bad). whatever degree of the first they are claiming, they will have the additional evidence and reasoning for it, otherwise they have only shown the second, which they are well aware of. again, they aren't idiots :]
Well, you're partially right. The point I was debating on was made by someone else stating that socialized healthcare was proven to be more effective at handling preventable deaths attributed to things like diabetes. My argument is no health care system in the world can prevent death from inherently American addictions like salt and sugar. The typical American lifestyle involves exesses that are unhealthy, and my argument is that those exesses are the factor in the seemingly better numbers
As opposed to the notion that it was the so called "free health care" that was being stated to be the cause of fewer preventable deaths. My thought is the people who eat themselves to death with sugar, fat, salt, or any combination are more than welcome to do so. It's no secret that when you eat unhealthy and fail to exercise you do so at your own peril. I feel people should feel free shoot for their fat induced early death if that's what makes them happy. Eat up porky, I'm not paying for it.
And how do you calculate risk for different variables? +3 or - 10? Every variable is handled differently by every person. Hence why certain types of speed are uppers for most and downers for people with adhd. Some get happy when they're drunk, others angry. Some people can handle enough sugar to kill a horse. Others are diabetic. Do you get it yet? They couldn't possibly look at a medical chart and get enough information to make such a determination.
Also, the studies that come up with the 45,000 number include those who choose not to have insurance, and those who don't have insurance and die from freak accidents. So, it is a flawed number Obama has thrown out there. If you haven't noticed, his also administration sucks at math.
During the last 4 years of the bush administration there were 49 Republicans, 49 Democrats, and 2 Independents. Hardly a majority. Hate to break it to ya. The previous 6 years the Republican Congress had their thumbs up their asses!
What people have a fundamental right to is.. freedom. The politician who says he wants individual mandates in health care and then says he believes in liberty is a liar. No one can say that you should be REQUIRED to purchase something and then say they believe in liberty, at least not with a straight face... unless your Nobama.
The World Health Organization is a biased piece of trash! Even toilet paper has a higher standard than the WHO!
The United States of America has the best health care system in the world.
Health care is not a right, it's a privilege.
People still die, even though they have the best health care in the world.
If you can't afford it, you cannot be turned down from receiving health care. Illegal aliens everyday receive health care in the U.S. Illegally. So, what's with all the sob stories?
"The World Health organization is a biased piece of trash! Even toilet paper has a higher standard than the WHO!"
And yet you just quoted the WHO ranking in your previous post for the categories the U.S. scored well in (responsiveness and expenditures). So, I guess the WHO ranking is only toilet paper in categories that suit you.
And for the second time, I DID NOT CITE THE WHO RANKING. I linked to a study by the Kaiser Foundation, and papers in three medical journals.
@TrollBuster9090 I apologize for the misunderstanding, but my comment wasn't toward you. But since you're bringing it up, people who cite the WHO ranking always focus on the #37, without looking at the context of that number, and writing it off like it's something real bad. Now, even though I cite the WHO ranking, that doesn't mean I agree with them. I was trying to make a point how progressive liberals focus on the 2 negative points without mentioning the more important 3 positive points.
@TrollBuster9090 I mean come on, they got the United Kingdom ranked #18, but the United States is #37. I have a lot of friends in Great Britain and they tell me the horror stories that happen on a daily basis with their health care system. Like patients starving to death, dying of thirst, drug overdoses, amputating wrong body parts, deaths from misdiagnosis, rats crawling around like they own the place, feces and puke with fungus growing on it in the waiting rooms, and on and on. WHO = trash!
I also talked to someone from the UK and they said the 57% income tax sucks. Most of the tax goes to support the universal health care system, and he said it is so terrible, that he has to go and pay more for private healthcare.
Myth: The United States is ranked 37th as a health system by the World Health Organization (WHO), below Canada, the United Kingdom and France.
FACT: In categories such as responsiveness and expenditures, the U.S. ranks #1, showing a commitment to deliver speedy health care to our citizens regardless of cost. Many factors such as obesity and smoking have lowered the health of Americans and, thus, lowered our ranking with the WHO.
You don't need insurance to get health care in America!
Boehner's Bill Passes! 402-1 LOL Liberals own this one, Man-up! They all need to be investigated! Massa is the living "Poster Child" for the progressive liberals. Now, since the p-libs threw Massa under the "Hope and Change" oBAMA express bus, he no longer matters, but now Pelosi and all the other progressive liberal ding-heads will be investigated! oBAMA is next on the list!! How's that hopey changey thing working out for yaa? LOL FACT: oBAMA = Failure!
Record deficit for a month is this month and it is a $220 Billion deficit for this month.
Bush's 08 total deficit was in the ballpark of $400 BILLION.
WOW! One month $220 BILLION.
Last year total deficit was $1.5 TRILLION and this year will top that. If you add 09 and 10, we will have more than 25% to our national debt in a time when our Nation's financial situation is worse off than most emerging markets. It is a sad day when Brazil has a more stable economy than we do.
Obama gave Pelosi all the heavy lifting on the Health Care Bill. Now Nancy might be a very good grandmother, but she has the IQ of an apple core. Just yesterday the Speaker said "we have to pass the Health Care Bill, so we can find out what's in it." I could fall down laughing if this were not so serious. Obama should stop flying around the country making speeches and stay in DC to fix the unemployment crisis.
Yes, Healthcare reform! Whats in it? Mo Gov Jobs and salaries to pay. If you work at fast food stores, cashiers, bartenders, waitersget out your checkbook and ready to pay. Uncle Obama needs more of your paycheck to pay for his new Gov Staff. If you dont pay you go to jail, simple.
We all pay for the DMV for life. Now, add DHS (Department of Healthcare Services) to your bills. Hand off my paycheck!!! Enough, Enough
Now the media is reporting Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are attempting to impose a national id card.
Can you say Central Planning, Statism, and more government intrusion, and more government control of your life?
I can. Obama and his regime are statists much along the lines of other statists from history. He wants to tell us how we have to live our lives and what we can eat while he smokes.
Libs not practicing what they preach is my biggest reason I don't trust them. This includes Gore and AGW.
Every single Dane has a personal cpr-number. I actually agree with you on that point. My cpr-number makes me feel like a piece of cattle. It's an invasion of my privacy
Lmfao! Republicans caused Katrina did they? And failed wars? Funny thing. The Taliban no longer control Afghanistan and Saddam has been overthrown, tried for genocide, found guilty, and executed. The people of Iraq actually vote for who they want now. As do the Afghans. Despite violence on election day they STILL vote. Where is the failure? Other than your assessment on the wars.
moonphibes - I don't think the far-left progressive democrats care what you or I think. By the time Obama and his liberal radicals are through, the American public will be totally dependent upon the federal govt.
Which is what they want, an all powerful central govt ran out of Moscow, I mean Washington.
Why would anyone want the government to start up and manage another entitlement program when the programs we already have are going bankrupt and are clearly mismanaged? This makes no sense. Do the liberal democrats think no one is paying attention?
I think they don't care. They have their shot and come hell or high water they're seizing the opportunity. They'll fully deserve facing lynch mobs when they're done with this.
Single payer healthcare doesn't work. I'm an Indian and I get 'free' healthcare for life and all Indians have for about 75 years and Indians have the worst health of all ppl in the country. That's what u get with govt healthcare.
Single payer works just fine in Norway, Japan, Sweden, Italy, Finland, Portugal, Canada and the Netherlands, delivering healthcare that's as good as insured Americans get while costing half as much (10%GDP vs 17%GDP) and leaving nobody uncovered.
If single payer is so bad, just try taking it away from people who have Medicare and see what happens.
But why bother mentioning single payer when that is NOT what they're proposing?
As good as Americans get yet we have a higher cancer survival rate. And a higher heart attack and stroke survival rate. And we have shorter waits in the e.r. By exactly what measure do you consider them "as good"?
By just about every measure, single payer systems like Canada come out with the same or better outcomes at half the cost, while leaving nobody uninsured.
openmedicine. ca/article/view/8/1
And all rank better in preventable deaths:
reuters. com/article/idUSN07651650
And your cancer numbers are actually a false comparison on the part of David Gratzer.
factcheck. org/elections-2008/a_bogus_cancer_statistic. html
That's why they all come to our healthcare system for major operations. Canada's single payer system is not bad; however, if it didn't have the US' healthcare system right next door, it would suck just like the rest of the world's single payer healthcare systems suck!
When statistics aren't on your side, it's a common rhetorical trick to cite a few isolated examples and pretend they're typical when they're not. You can probably name one or two millionaires who come to the USA for treatment, but in reality the number of Canadians who actually do that is miniscule:
I'm not buying it. plain and simple. the W.H.O ranks us low because we don't have socialized medicine. Not exactly something to rate a health care system on. Our system puts out more innovation than any other. I've met plenty of people that come from other countries to the hospital in my city for cancer treatment. Sorry, but if they had a better chance in their home country they wouldn't be coming here.
Why are you mentioning the WHO ranking? I said nothing about the WHO rankings. I gave you a ranking on preventable deaths from the New York Kaiser Foundation. The USA ranks 19th of 19 at preventing deaths from trivial things like diabetes, mainly because we leave so many people uncovered.
And sorry, the U.S. is not number one in innovation, Europe is.
Your website doesn't seem to be completely legit. It allows anybody to place a document on it and about the story you linked to for my comment, why did they not give specific numbers or percentages? They only said "the number is actually miniscule." But no numbers were in the report. It cannot be trusted. Also, the site is funded by many liberal organizations, so I believe it may have its own agenda.
Lol, 19th of 19? Still not buying justification for it. And if you want to talk about death by diabetes... Let's talk sugar content and accessibility to sugar products. It's no fault of our medical community that America has an addiction to high fructose corn syrup. High blood pressure and cholesterol? Look no farther than the salt content of tv dinners and artificial foods like margarine. This is no failure of the medical community. It's Americans making choices for fast food over health
Yet another argument against socialized health care. If the government is responsible for people's health then they are going to have to charge extra for lifestyle decisions that are bad for you. Here in America we used to believe in the freedom to choose for yourself. That means being able to eat greasy burgers and an extra large fry without extra taxes to cover your additional medical risk. It's not the governments job to wipe your ass. Learn to wipe your own.
Did they take the jail time out of the Senate version of the government takeover of our healthcare bill? Or does the IRS just simply garnish your wages and seize funds from your bank account? Some of the House versions of the government takeover included jail time but I think they finally stripped it out.
Of course it could easily be added back in thru the reconciliation process.
@moonphibes - I went to the democrat website and it says jail time has thus far been removed from this version of govt takeover. But if you refuse to pay, your wages will be garnished and/or your bank account deducted. True that it could be put back in through Reconciliaton.
Sad isn't it. This is the far-left progressive democrats for you.
Agreed. Spending is the biggest problem in the congress of today. Washington DC needs to stop ignoring the constitution. Abide by the constitutional mandate for a limited government with a limited scope of power.
Thomas Jefferson: "The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty." .Thus, a safety net like Medicaid is ok, but universal healthcare will make them too comfortable in their poverty. And if you dont believe universal healthcare is for the poor, then understand something: Wealth redistribution is not in the Constitution.
Well said. What He did not say is very soon if things don't change he may have to back up what he says, and guess what. the military will not be with him. To all 1 if by land 2 if by sea..
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So let me get this straight... In order to make healthcare more accessible and affordable, You have to pass a law forcing americans under penalty of fine and/or prison time to purchase insurance?
That's like saying you want every american to have the opportunity to get access to an affordable car so we will pass a law forcing every american to buy one!
Where the fuck are the "four million" jobs?
leaddrop 7 months ago
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I'm Black and I know for a fact that this dude doesn't care about Black people. Los Angeles is still filled with drugs, prosties and lil funky assed gang bangers who think this city is theirs. B.O isn't doin' shit for anyone except creating an illusion that he's helping. I and other hard working individuals in my neighborhood have degrees, military histories and respect for each other and we cannot get jobs. Unless you wanna be a nurse. You can go to Everest College and get in on that shit. :-(
Satansoppressed 1 year ago
In a few years you tea baggers will be reaping the benefits of Obama's policies. Then will you guys look foolish.
judyleasugar97 1 year ago
@judyleasugar97 In a few years, America will end up like Greece, you'll see.
partymartyrocks 1 year ago
the futur of america is socialism =)
MrParasite1 1 year ago
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Why did the U.S needs obama to finally put a medical system like this? about time you see it cannot works. Speaking of the man...why is there so many people that hates him?
MrParasite1 1 year ago
Why did the U.S needs obama to finally put a medical system like this? about time you see it cannot works. Speaking of the man...why is there so many people that hates him?
MrParasite1 1 year ago
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@MrParasite1 Part 1, 787 BILLION DOLLARS On his Porkulus Stimulus Package
* 3.6 TRILLION DOLLARS Socialist Filled Budget.
* 2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS Health Care Reform - Fiasco
* 800 BILLION DOLLARS wasted on Voodo ESCR
* 700 BILLION DOLLARS Cap & TAX
* Bank Bail-outs, Car Company Bail-0uts
* 3 Billion Dollars on cash for junk cars.
* 1.5 TRILLION DOLLARS TO THE FED.
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
I don't understant the bill still needs to pass the senate. doesn't it?
MsTommyknocker 1 year ago
Yes, it does. But as everyone will tell you, the dumocrats are going to fall on the oblama sword. Come November, The American People (not illegal aliens) will show them how much we don't want government run or mandated Health Care.
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
Now, it's passed and signed. No matter what mr oblama, harry reid or nancie pileosii says, this is unconstitutional.
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
@Unklebillybob it's not unconstitutional. you'll see when it gets through the courts. there's too much precedent against them (i.e. social security, car insurance). you should know that, though, mr "i have more degrees than barack obama."
rysw19 1 year ago
@rysw19 Here we go again! Let me bring this down to you in RDV, so you can understand. Congress has no authority to force 100% of American Citizen to purchase any commodity. Congress has no authority to fine or imprision any American Citizen who do not wish to purchase an unwanted commodity.
Unfortunately, for you, you picked two examples where 100% of Americans are not required to purchase them. Did you want to try something else?
Now you're being rude, so be it!
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
@Unklebillybob congress forces us all to buy insurance against old age (it's called social security). the difference is that with social security, the government makes you buy it from them, with the new hc bill you buy it in the private sector. maybe, as a conservative, you'd prefer the government just went to a single-payer system?
the fact is you're wrong. they wouldn't have bothered using reconciliation if the courts would throw it out anyway. you'll see when it fails in court.
rysw19 1 year ago
@rysw19 Again, you're totally wrong! It is not mandated that 100% of all Americans buy into or can accept social security. I'm not going to argue with you on this one any more. You're wrong and failed to research the facts.
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
@Unklebillybob how can you even say that? if you pay taxes in this country (or have ever paid taxes) then you have paid for social security. it's the largest part of our national budget.
rysw19 1 year ago
@rysw19 Step-By-Step, then. "If you pay taxes", Then that would eliminate all of those who don't pay taxes. In mr oblama's health care law, Everyone, no matter if they work, don't work, pay taxes, don't pay taxes, are very young or very old, are mandated to pay for mr oblama's health care.
As for social security,,,,Who runs it? And what kind of shape is social security in, today, by being run by the government?
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
@Unklebillybob no, step by step, if you live in the us, you pay taxes. you pay sales taxes, and every other kind of tax, which is passed on to consumers.
rysw19 1 year ago
@Unklebillybob they refuse to have anyone help pay for.
rysw19 1 year ago
@rysw19 Sorry, what? Maybe I'm just tired, but,,,,, What?
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
@rysw19 i must've replied to the wrong message for this sentence. this one is supposed to be above, and i think i copied and pasted wrong. anyhow, you get the idea. people expect more from the us government than people pay in taxes. that's just the way it is. it's the reason we have a budget deficit instead of a surplus -- we spend more than we take in. doesn't take a genius to figure it out, and saying, "cut taxes and stop regulation!" doesn't work. that's what got us here in the first place.
rysw19 1 year ago
Congratulations to the American people for still dreaming and fighting to see some of their dreams come true......This man is saying the truth....There is still hope....Greetings from Greece
fraggyy 1 year ago
empty suit!
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
What the f.. do you know?
Stay in Greece and mind your own business unless you have some knowledge of what is going on.
Toddinfantry 1 year ago
@fraggyy Well pretty soon America is gonna end up looking like Greece.
partymartyrocks 1 year ago
@partymartyrocks: They'll have to roll back the Bush tax cuts. It's time the wealthiest started contributing something. In fact, roll back the Reagan tax cuts.
judyleasugar97 1 year ago
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fraggyy 1 year ago
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JESUS would want every American to have health insurance, illness to be treated, sick people not be discriminated against, and not be bankrupt by lack of health care. Thank you JESUS. I LOVE U. PRAISE THE LORD!
noformstyle 1 year ago
@noformstyle He would want health care for everyone. The question is, would he want tax dollars to go to support such an evil cause as abortion.
IanLoewen 1 year ago
Obama for 3rd term.
lamrof 1 year ago
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AMA and ANA (DOCTORS & NURSES) support the Bill.
4Profit Insurance companies are against the Bill.
Why would Doctors support a Bill that taxes them, > $200,000? They have seen enough abuse by the Insurance Companies against their patients: deny treatments, changing drug formulary, drop coverage, preexisting condition exclusion, & Medicare drug GAP for Senior. Dont ever get sick or in an accident, you will be bankrupted & screwed by Insurance. House Passed !!
noformstyle 1 year ago
Obama knows best. He can run all businesses. We can just go to work for Obama and he can give us an allowance for the week. Maybe I can work two jobs so the people that don't like to work can stay at home and have more kids.
atgmam 1 year ago 5
No one is going to deny that our current Health Care System needs repairs. However, Nieither nancy ( The Democrats Are In Charge) pileosii, nor harry( We've Lost The War) reid, or even barrack hussein( I'm Bringing the American People Chains & Chains is What You Get) oblama have the knowledge, skills or ability to fix this broken system.
We need to kick these three posers and hire/elect people who have the Knowledge, Skills & Ability to Get-The-Job-Done.
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
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AMA and ANA (DOCTORS & NURSES) support the Bill.
4Profit Insurance companies are against the Bill.
Why would Doctors support a Bill that taxes them, > $200,000? They have seen enough abuse by the Insurance Companies against their patients: deny treatments, changing drug formulary, drop coverage, preexisting condition exclusion, & Medicare drug GAP for Senior. Dont ever get sick or in an accident, you will be bankrupted & screwed by Insurance.
I will go with AMA on Health Care Reform.
noformstyle 1 year ago
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November 5, 2009 — The American Medical Association (AMA) supports a massive healthcare reform bill in the US House of Representatives that may come to a vote this Saturday, but the voting can't stop there, AMA President J. James Rohack, MD, said today.
noformstyle 1 year ago
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MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE. Former Congressman Billy Tauzin, REPUBLICAN-La., who steered part d through the House, retired soon after and took a $2 million a year job as president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the main industry lobbying group. Obama Bill will close 50 % of Medicare donut hole, 75% by 2020. Republican want 100% donut hole to continue benefits the Insurance and Pharma. Close the donut hole to help Senior.
noformstyle 1 year ago
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MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN HAVE INSURANCE, but outrageous premium, deny surgical, drug treatment based on arbitrary profit driven criteria is IMMORAL. Tumor 0.1 inch over limits no treatment for you. MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS are still one accident, one serious illness, or one chronic disease away from declaring Bankruptcy. Only if you are lucky enough to receive treatments & live long enough to file one. System is broken and failed MIDDLE CLASS that is why there is an outcry for reform.
noformstyle 1 year ago
HEALTH CARE REFORM POLL:
When asked, Do you want the new health care reform program now being considered in congress, below were the following results:
53% Oppose 46% Strongly Oppose
43% Favor 23% Strongly Favor
The majorityof Americans want this current Proposed Health Care Reform Package to be tossed into the Garbage Can. And for congress to start-all-over-again. But include the American People's Input.
Unklebillybob 1 year ago
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No one give a F about poll, only actual vote counts. Poll all you want at the KKK counties.
noformstyle 1 year ago
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NO! NO! NO! to this health care bill; it all sounds good when Obama gets on the air waves blowing smoke up people's ASS! What he isn't saying is under this new Health Care Plan the parents or parent with children has to keep there child on there health care plan until they reach the age 26! I've always been a Democrat and even voted for Obama, but I must agree with the rep on this one there is parts of this bill that really "stinks", and the public is in for a very rude awaking should this pass.
JAMAICNLIGHTEN818 1 year ago
It's under handed, it's pushing their will on the people. Most Americans want this tabled and put on c-span so We can hear the pros and cons of this bill. They are cowardly.
(somebody who anonymously harms those who cannot defend themselves)
Looks like we can't defend ourselves as they are going to do what they want anyway!
We have a bunch of cowards in congress
timefordifference 1 year ago
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GOD BLESS OBAMA & AMERICA!
Go get them, get rid of this Unregulated Greedy B.A.S.T.A.R.D, who would rather see American die, just for making a buck. Tax on income $200,000 or more actually reverse the $ 2 Trillion Tax Breaks given to the rich during Bush Era, which was passed under simple majority vote. No Government takeover because no single payer in this bill. MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN WINS no new tax, affordable, secure, and comprehensive coverage!
noformstyle 1 year ago
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AMA and ANA (DOCTORS & NURSES) support the Bill.
4Profit Insurance companies are against the Bill.
Why would Doctors support a Bill that taxes them, > $200,000? They have seen enough abuse by the Insurance Companies against their patients: deny treatments, changing drug formulary, drop coverage, preexisting condition exclusion, & Medicare drug GAP for Senior. Dont ever get sick or in an accident, you will be bankrupted & screwed by Insurance.
I will go with AMA on Health Care Reform.
noformstyle 1 year ago
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November 5, 2009 — The American Medical Association (AMA) supports a massive healthcare reform bill in the US House of Representatives that may come to a vote this Saturday, but the voting can't stop there, AMA President J. James Rohack, MD, said today.
noformstyle 1 year ago
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MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE. Former Congressman Billy Tauzin, REPUBLICAN-La., who steered part d through the House, retired soon after and took a $2 million a year job as president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the main industry lobbying group. Obama Bill will close 50 % of Medicare donut hole, 100% by 2020. Republican want 100% donut hole to continue benefits the Insurance and Pharma. Close the donut hole to help Senior.
noformstyle 1 year ago
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MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN HAVE INSURANCE, but outrageous premium, deny surgical, drug treatment based on arbitrary profit driven criteria is IMMORAL. Tumor 0.1 inch over limits no treatment for you. MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS are still one accident, one serious illness, or one chronic disease away from declaring Bankruptcy. Only if you are lucky enough to receive treatments & live long enough to file one. System is broken and failed MIDDLE CLASS that is why there is an outcry for reform.
noformstyle 1 year ago
It looks like he was green screened in. It must be the fabric in the curtains.
EvilIslamMustDie 1 year ago
Is government run health care going to raise your taxes? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to create more jobs? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to make you more healthy? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to create more health care rationing? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to create doctor and nurse shortages? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to be the same "Top Notch" health care that congress gets? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to save more lives? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to cost more than what you're paying the insurance companies now? FACT:Yes.
demonpreyer 1 year ago
Can't you come up with some different lies?
phillipmarch22 1 year ago
MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN HAVE INSURANCE, but outrageous premium, deny surgical, drug treatment based on arbitrary profit driven criteria is IMMORAL. Tumor 0.1 inch over limits no treatment for you. MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS are still one accident, one serious illness, or one chronic disease away from declaring Bankruptcy. Only if you are lucky enough to receive treatments & live long enough to file one. System is broken and failed MIDDLE CLASS that is why there is an outcry for reform.
noformstyle 1 year ago 2
Amen noformstyle! My son-in-law and daughter are text book middle class Americans. My son-in-law is a General Manager for a Ford dealership, (non-union position). He pays $785 a month for his insurance and Ford pays the other $785. That premium really puts a dent in their income. And I guarantee you that if one of them got seriously ill, we would have to hire an attorney to make sure the insurance company paid. If anyone out there thinks our system isn't fucked up, they live in a cave!
phillipmarch22 1 year ago 2
It may be fucked up, but if anyone thinks that Government can run it better, then they 'are living in a cave' - Government has already proven repeatedly that they are incompetent and corrupt.
livewiredg 1 year ago 5
The Government won't be "running" healthcare, the doctors, hospitals, and healthcare professionals will.
phillipmarch22 1 year ago
@phillipmarch22 Sounds like their health insurance has a monopoly. One that the federal government has handed to them
billabong24041 1 year ago
Really funny story you have there. More drama from phillip's personal fiction shelf. Unless their area has a rather high income / expense ratio, then there's no way in hell they're paying that much for health insurance. And you also forgot to mention what percentage of their income this health insurance is. And I like the non union part... Really completes your partisan fantasy story. I assume you've never worked non union in your life then? Its not as bad as your mafia thug union reps told you.
billabong24041 1 year ago
So over 60% of the Americans that's against health care reform are rich? Because the latest REAL polls show this amount opposed. I think you got some splan'in to do lucy.
bouncer421 1 year ago
AMA and ANA (DOCTORS & NURSES) support the Bill.
4Profit Insurance companies are against the Bill.
Why would Doctors support a Bill that taxes them, > $200,000? They have seen enough abuse by the Insurance Companies against their patients: deny treatments, changing drug formulary, drop coverage, preexisting condition exclusion, & Medicare drug GAP for Senior. Dont ever get sick or in an accident, you will be bankrupted & screwed by Insurance.
I will go with AMA on Health Care Reform.
noformstyle 1 year ago 2
The AMA may be for it for political reasons, but the majority of Dr.s do not support the bill, they will not get paid by the gov't which is already essentially bankrupt. If gov't could run Medicare/ Medicaid into the ground the what makes you think that they can keep a much larger program afloat? Gov't run Health Care SUCKS. Read todays news on Social Security re: collecting IOU's from the gov't. The more politicians and lawyers get involved in HC the worse it will get, it's a racket!!!!!
roodingle 1 year ago
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MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE. Former Congressman Billy Tauzin, R-La., who steered the bill through the House, retired soon after and took a $2 million a year job as president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the main industry lobbying group. The Bill will close 50 % of Medicare donut hole, 100% by 2020. Republican want 100% donut hole to continue benefits the Insurance and Pharma. Close the donut hole to help Senior.
noformstyle 1 year ago 2
The fake doctors remembered to bring their lab coats; this makes them look less fake.
TheAntiLeft 1 year ago
demonpreyer 1 year ago
Watch this video = eZA0qNsf4m0 and see the truth!
Wildkkat1 1 year ago
Is government run health care going to raise your taxes? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to create more jobs? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to make you more healthy? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to create more health care rationing? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to create doctor and nurse shortages? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to be the same "Top Notch" health care that congress gets? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to save more lives? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to cost more than what you're paying the insurance companies now? FACT:Yes.
demonpreyer 1 year ago
You stupid liberals, used like some hoe by the dumpster. No cares, thrown to the side like used trash and licked ice baggie. Tomorrow Uberzone and the Bassbin triwns will be at the Lizard lounge at Dallas. Stupid Fuskes!
No one wants your bureucratic bullshit, government run healthcare. New flash you stupid liberals: 1930 Germany has gone and passed you by. Your grandpa already died on on the Russian front. Fascism is all over bitches.
moonphibes 1 year ago
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You keep hearing the stupid loaded question "How many people die without health care insurance?" A study says 45,000 people die every year in the US for lack of health care insurance.
My question is "How many people die every year in the US with health care insurance?"
Approximately 2.5 million people die in the US every year. The study says 45,000 out of 2.5 million die from lack of health care insurance.
Conclusion: More people die with health care insurance, than without!
demonpreyer 1 year ago
Hahah! You're hilarious.
Okay, so you concluded that the mortality rate for people with health insurance is 100%. Don't buy health insurance, because it's obviously LETHAL!
But if you're interested in reading the actual study, here it is. While everybody dies of old age eventually, the study lists the mortality rate of people with or without insurance by age group.
pnhp. org/excessdeaths/health-insurance-and-mortality-in-US-adults. pdf
TrollBuster9090 1 year ago 3
@TrollBuster9090 LOL Your hilarious too! That's not an actual study and you know it! That is your opinion of what you think is an actual study, when in reality, it is a biased report with a few facts, all dressed up to look good on paper only. Studies like this are for uninformed people like you, looking for a quick fix, who can't put 2 and 2 together, much less tell fact from fiction. LOL Nice try!
demonpreyer 1 year ago
So you think that a peer-reviewed study, conducted by six M.D./MPH researchers at Harvard Medical School, and published in the American Journal of Public Health is not an "actual" study?
The National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) disagrees with you, because they also list it
ncbi. nlm. nih. gov/pubmed/19762659
As well as the earlier 1993 study that it refers to, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association
jama. ama-assn. org/cgi/content/abstract/270/6/737
TrollBuster9090 1 year ago 3
Peer review? We all know from climategate that those can and DO show the outcomes the peers doing the reviewing intend on.
billabong24041 1 year ago
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@TrollBuster9090, You failed to mention to your audience that there is disagreement and a "no consensus" among the medical community concerning the validity and methodology of this peer reviewed material. Just because something is peer reviewed, doesn't make it a fact.
Use of vague, exaggerated or untestable claims
Over-reliance on confirmation rather than refutation
Lack of openness to testing by other experts
Use of misleading language, etc.
Conclusion: This is not an "actual" study.
demonpreyer 1 year ago
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The mortality rate is 100% for everyone. EVERYONE is born with a terminal condition called LIFE. Try as you may, you will not survive it. And you're not going to leave this world alive. What are the lifestyles of the people in the study? There are more variables than just health insurance. Driving habits, eating habits, exercise, smoking or not, drinking habits, the neighborhood you live in, whether or not there is mold in the home... Factor that in. Wanna bet it makes a difference?
billabong24041 1 year ago
they'd be retarded if they DIDN'T account for things like that. it's standard issue to use controls and so on, otherwise it's terrible science
Techra 1 year ago 3
Yes, terrible science... Just like climategate. And I agree. They'd be retarded if they didn't take that in to account. But tell me. Exactly how DO you take such things in to account? Especially when they were most likely getting their information from either medical charts or autopsy reports.
billabong24041 1 year ago
they take those things into account by sampling people with a broad range of conditions. eg sampling not just healthy people, but also people with cancer, etc. the study itself should explain how it does these things
peer review is a BRUTAL process. scientists do not fuck around when it comes to ideas
"climategate" is the result of the politicization of science. i recognized that years ago. it's one of the reasons i've withheld any opinion on it, especially considering the complexity of earth
Techra 1 year ago 2
And this subject isn't politicized? Ok, so it takes in to account condition. But does it take in to account other factors? Their medical charts couldn't possibly have all the details, and unlikely to have ANY details on their living conditions or diet and exercise habits. Not to mention the fact that a good portion of your ability to survive something like cancer is how you handle the diagnosis mentally. There's been a long running debate over whether or not to tell patients.
billabong24041 1 year ago
Because of the effect psychology has on the healing process. Well, do you really think it's impossible any of the people on the uninsured side MIGHT have maybe had a more grim outlook psychologically? Do you really think it impossible that there might be more of a leaning towards such a mentality? Ask a person with confidence about being successful at anything. Now ask someone that doesn't have much about the same topic. Psychology plays a bigger role than health insurance in my opinion
billabong24041 1 year ago
And what you failed to see was my argument wasn't about if they took in to account what they had. My argument goes deeper. They didn't have all the facts on everyone. They couldn't have. There is more to health than what is wrong with you and if you're seeing a doctor or not. There's having a suitable climate in your home, clean air, a clean home, clean drinking water, drinking water rather than soda or beer, eating healthy, regular exercise. They couldn't have possibly factored those in
billabong24041 1 year ago
you underestimate them. they most definitely took those things into account by sampling people from different income brackets, backgrounds, ethnicities, etc. that's plain common sense for these kinds of studies... your suggestion of these things would insult their intelligence. they are wayyyyyyy ahead of you
Techra 1 year ago 4
@Techra, lol and by the same token you're overestimating them. You have no clue what they took into account to come up with the number 45,000. Like I commented earlier, a majority of the medical community disagree with these findings, something you didn't hear from the progressive liberal media. You comment as though the Medical Sciences are without fault and have not been politicized. Yes, I think they're wayyy ahead of you, insulting your intelligence, hook line and stinker! Brutal process LOL
demonpreyer 1 year ago
1) can you show me where you found that "the majority of the medical community" disagrees with the study? lol !
2) i don't know everything they took into account because i haven't looked at the study. you can check the study itself if you're that curious LOL !
the stuff that you guys are saying "they didn't take into account" is OBVIOUS. i learned about trivial shit like that in a general. ed. class in college, nevermind a major-specific course in a serious university like Harvard
Techra 1 year ago
You are wrong.
It is widely debated, but Wash U. says choices and freedoms come into play and when governments are involved you can't be sure everything is on a level playing field. We have heard stories for years how babies that die early after death.
We have more guns, loggers, wide open roads/cars, more disposable income, eat more sugar, weigh more, and have one group of Americans with a very bad genetic predisposition to systemic disease, etc.
It is impossible to really know.
bkdmd 1 year ago
You are wrong.
they wouldn't even *try* to do this study if they didn't think they could account for things like that
if the study is just within the U.S., then all we need to worry about are conditions present in the U.S.
Techra 1 year ago
Anyone who thinks they can say...Look socialized countries live longer is simply wrong.
You don't know this. You can' t prove it so why debate it?
You can think you know all you want, but that doesn't mean you really do.
I will take my freedom and choices in life over a totalitarian government that tries to control my life and my consumption of sugar.
If I want a coke or ten cokes, it isn't uncle barry's business and I shouldn't be taxed on it.
bkdmd 1 year ago
what the fuck are you talking about? i never said anything about socialized countries
Techra 1 year ago
Why is Obama forgetting to mention the senate bill has $500 Billion in new taxes and $500 Billion in medicare cuts? Why does he think cutting medicare when it has a $74 TRILLION unfunded commitment is a good idea.
How can a bill that produces ten years of revenue and only 6 years of benefits be deficit neutral?
The bottom line this has disaster written all over it.
Anyone with two brain cells knows this.
bkdmd 1 year ago
Let's not forget Obama said a doctor got paid $40,000 or $50,000 or $60,000 to amputate a foot for a diabetic so that is a lot of money why would he help a diabetic control their diabetes?
In reality that number is at least 30X's-60X's off.
He has called doctors a bunch of butchers for hire. My favorite one was talking about how ENT's removed too many tonsils when Obama has no clue how enlarged tonsils affect facial/nasal growth during early childhood and the damage is permanent.
BO = F
bkdmd 1 year ago
It's no underestimate to state that it's not possible that they even had everything they needed. Do you think they followed all these people around before their death? I'm not saying they were being sloppy and not including the information. I'm saying that there's now way in hell they could have possibly had the information to include it. Different income brackets can't cover it. Neither can background or ethnicity. You need very intimate details.
billabong24041 1 year ago
Oh, no, the Republicans are not the only ones getting bribed. I have created a list of Democrats that have been bribed by the PHI industry and have been on a mission to post these evil fucks on every YouTube video possible. The GOP is by far in the pockets of the private health insurance industry, way more then the Democrats. Vote every single one of these assholes out of office, both the Republicans and Democrats.
phillipmarch22 1 year ago
Lol, let me guess. The only possible way any politician could be against this bill is if they're being paid off by a health insurance company. Couldn't possibly be that our bonds are becoming worthless from all the spending we're doing. Couldn't possibly be that the dollar is on the verge of collapse. Couldn't possibly be that it is unconstitutional. Couldn't possibly be that the people that voted them in are giving them a clear NO. I'll say it again. You are blind and a tool
billabong24041 1 year ago
What is it with you morons?
It is very easy to find out who is taking more money from health care PAC's and it is the Democrats.
You people and your feelings are so m'f'ing retarded it isn't even funny.
health care PAC's across the board are giving 65% to dims and hospitals 70% to Dims HMO PAC's 65% going to Dims.
You are really about clueless.
bkdmd 1 year ago
Uh...if you/he had actually looked at any of the links I provided, you'd have seen that all of those things were factored into the study, and corrected for before the mortality risk factor for not having insurance was calculated. But since you guys have essentially said that there's no such thing as a scientific study (ie-'climategate) I'm wasting my time talking to you anyway.
The links are there for anybody who's seriously interested in the truth.
TrollBuster9090 1 year ago
You're talking about this study as if they could have controlled EVERY possible variable. If you REALLY know the scientific process you'd know that's impossible. I can already tell you're full of shit. You're telling me that they compiled EVERY aspect of the lives of those in the study? Bunk! There is too much left up to chance. The only way to get a REAL scientific finding would be to keep these people in a controlled environment.
billabong24041 1 year ago
@billabong24041
You are pretty good at baffling with bullshit. Congress consists of the House and Senate.
As for the Domcrat controlled Congress, unforunately the Dems are getting bribed by lobbyists just as the GOP is. As long as we allow legal bribes appoved by the US Supreme Court, nothing will change.
phillipmarch22 1 year ago
@phillipmarch22 So you're saying your story WAS bullshit? Listen to you blaming Republicans for everything, saying Democrats are getting bribed, and failing to protest or express any anger about it. You're a tool. You're an absolute sucker for partisan politics. You never were truly independent. If you were you wouldn't be spending so much time defending one corrupt party and pointing fingers at another. It's unfortunate when dems take bribes and criminal when the gop does it? Moron
billabong24041 1 year ago
don't you think the researches know that obvious stuff? not only that, there are statistical methods to figure out *how confident* they are in their results. so not only do they know sampling X people is not the same as sampling every single person in the U.S., there is math that can determine how good their results are
what you're trying to argue is that because the scientific method can't be trusted 100%, it's completely useless
Techra 1 year ago
What I'm saying is they don't have all the facts. And since they used some degree of the scientific method people are taking it as proven science. There's enough not taken in to account that I can safely assume that it's a study that could have been spun to fit an agenda. How do you justify blaming the health care system for people making their own decisions? Everyone SHOULD be able to get health care. That doesn't oblige me to have to pay for theirs, or be penalized for eating a doughnut.
billabong24041 1 year ago
they *don't need* "all the facts." that's the point of statistics -- to quantify to as high a degree as possible these complex systems by accounting for minutiae in terms of probability
you keep harking on simple checkers when these Harvard researchers are always dealing with chess
and are you saying people can decide whether or not a high-energy photon from the sun decides to fuck with the DNA of one of their skin cells? things aren't that simple
Techra 1 year ago
"There are 3 types of lies. Lies, Damned lies, and statistics". You're right I'm harking on simple checkers. It's the Harvard researchers that are wrong for trying to turn it in to chess. There's an acronym entrepreneurs use constantly. K.I.S.S.- Keep it simple stupid. The more complex you make something, the more likely it will go wrong. If you don't believe me, try to figure out what they mean by derivatives. It's as simple as this, what are a persons priorities? And who aims to be average?
billabong24041 1 year ago
none of that is specific criticism of this study. just because some people lie with statistics doesn't mean these researches lied with statistics
do you believe Harvard researchers are going to risk their careers by fabricating some shit that will be discovered in the FIRST MINUTE of peer review by people that are much harder to trick than laypeople are? look what happened to the cold fusion guy. bad faith science is not tolerated AT ALL
derivative - pointwise rate of change of a function?
Techra 1 year ago
Then explain climategate? I don't trust them like you do. My first instinct is to ALWAYS question those that want some sort of control over you. You liberals were completely against giving government any more control only 2 years ago. Are you really naive enough to think there will never be a Republican majority again? If you're playing the partisan game then AT LEAST be smart enough not to give government power you don't trust the other party with
billabong24041 1 year ago
after 'climategate' investigations are done, any bad faith scientists will not be able to publish another paper or be taken seriously ever again. that's what happened to the cold fusion guy
scientists are incredibly objective people that take truth very seriously, which is why peer review is so brutal, why bad scientists are never given second chances, and why "intelligent design" could never so much as get within 1 mile of serious scientific discourse
Techra 1 year ago
With any luck you'll be right about that. Because if there is any actual man made climate change (a premise I obviously don't buy) then these people have destroyed the credibility of the real evidence.
billabong24041 1 year ago
i think i know where the confusion is. you're thinking they said "people are worse off because they don't have insurance" when what they're actually saying is "people without insurance are worse off." these are 2 very different things as you have been trying to point out (my bad). whatever degree of the first they are claiming, they will have the additional evidence and reasoning for it, otherwise they have only shown the second, which they are well aware of. again, they aren't idiots :]
Techra 1 year ago
Well, you're partially right. The point I was debating on was made by someone else stating that socialized healthcare was proven to be more effective at handling preventable deaths attributed to things like diabetes. My argument is no health care system in the world can prevent death from inherently American addictions like salt and sugar. The typical American lifestyle involves exesses that are unhealthy, and my argument is that those exesses are the factor in the seemingly better numbers
billabong24041 1 year ago
As opposed to the notion that it was the so called "free health care" that was being stated to be the cause of fewer preventable deaths. My thought is the people who eat themselves to death with sugar, fat, salt, or any combination are more than welcome to do so. It's no secret that when you eat unhealthy and fail to exercise you do so at your own peril. I feel people should feel free shoot for their fat induced early death if that's what makes them happy. Eat up porky, I'm not paying for it.
billabong24041 1 year ago
And how do you calculate risk for different variables? +3 or - 10? Every variable is handled differently by every person. Hence why certain types of speed are uppers for most and downers for people with adhd. Some get happy when they're drunk, others angry. Some people can handle enough sugar to kill a horse. Others are diabetic. Do you get it yet? They couldn't possibly look at a medical chart and get enough information to make such a determination.
billabong24041 1 year ago
Also, the studies that come up with the 45,000 number include those who choose not to have insurance, and those who don't have insurance and die from freak accidents. So, it is a flawed number Obama has thrown out there. If you haven't noticed, his also administration sucks at math.
DrtyKorean 1 year ago
*If you haven't noticed, his administration also sucks at math.
DrtyKorean 1 year ago 2
People have a right to die of cancer!!!
MsTommyknocker 1 year ago
4 years... I hate to break it to you but there was a Dem majority congress for Bush's second term. Keep digging your hole deeper and deeper
billabong24041 1 year ago
During the last 4 years of the bush administration there were 49 Republicans, 49 Democrats, and 2 Independents. Hardly a majority. Hate to break it to ya. The previous 6 years the Republican Congress had their thumbs up their asses!
phillipmarch22 1 year ago
When you caucus with a dim, you are dim.
A label of Independent still has to pick a side. that is just how it works.
bkdmd 1 year ago
And in the house? Congress consists of 2 halls.
billabong24041 1 year ago
Pelosi and Reid were in leadership since the 2006 election. That is correct isn't it? The two independents caucused with the democrats.
And since they took leadership gov expanded by 40%.
bkdmd 1 year ago
Really... so tell me about the blood on my hands then
billabong24041 1 year ago
yea true, Healthcare need not cost $100,000 for death of american =) healthcare need to be more secure and more affordable... right on
MrBoomSonic 1 year ago
What people have a fundamental right to is.. freedom. The politician who says he wants individual mandates in health care and then says he believes in liberty is a liar. No one can say that you should be REQUIRED to purchase something and then say they believe in liberty, at least not with a straight face... unless your Nobama.
twoking10 1 year ago
The World Health Organization is a biased piece of trash! Even toilet paper has a higher standard than the WHO!
The United States of America has the best health care system in the world.
Health care is not a right, it's a privilege.
People still die, even though they have the best health care in the world.
If you can't afford it, you cannot be turned down from receiving health care. Illegal aliens everyday receive health care in the U.S. Illegally. So, what's with all the sob stories?
demonpreyer 1 year ago
@demonpreyer
"The World Health organization is a biased piece of trash! Even toilet paper has a higher standard than the WHO!"
And yet you just quoted the WHO ranking in your previous post for the categories the U.S. scored well in (responsiveness and expenditures). So, I guess the WHO ranking is only toilet paper in categories that suit you.
And for the second time, I DID NOT CITE THE WHO RANKING. I linked to a study by the Kaiser Foundation, and papers in three medical journals.
TrollBuster9090 1 year ago 5
@TrollBuster9090 I apologize for the misunderstanding, but my comment wasn't toward you. But since you're bringing it up, people who cite the WHO ranking always focus on the #37, without looking at the context of that number, and writing it off like it's something real bad. Now, even though I cite the WHO ranking, that doesn't mean I agree with them. I was trying to make a point how progressive liberals focus on the 2 negative points without mentioning the more important 3 positive points.
demonpreyer 1 year ago
@TrollBuster9090 I mean come on, they got the United Kingdom ranked #18, but the United States is #37. I have a lot of friends in Great Britain and they tell me the horror stories that happen on a daily basis with their health care system. Like patients starving to death, dying of thirst, drug overdoses, amputating wrong body parts, deaths from misdiagnosis, rats crawling around like they own the place, feces and puke with fungus growing on it in the waiting rooms, and on and on. WHO = trash!
demonpreyer 1 year ago
I also talked to someone from the UK and they said the 57% income tax sucks. Most of the tax goes to support the universal health care system, and he said it is so terrible, that he has to go and pay more for private healthcare.
DrtyKorean 1 year ago
IN 2010 entitlements are 25% of our total GDP.
Two great websites if you are interested in taxes and gov spending and deficits
ukpublicspending
usgovernmentspending
In 09 total gov spending was 47% of our GDP and the federal gov borrowed 40% of what it spent.
08 deficit ~$400 billion
09 deficit $1.5 TRILLION
10 deficit $1.6 TRILLION
Obama never saw a gov spending program he didn't like and it has to stop or we will insolvent.
bkdmd 1 year ago
Scary info, and people are wanting to do more. What the heck is going through the minds of the leaders of this country?
DrtyKorean 1 year ago
Myth: The United States is ranked 37th as a health system by the World Health Organization (WHO), below Canada, the United Kingdom and France.
FACT: In categories such as responsiveness and expenditures, the U.S. ranks #1, showing a commitment to deliver speedy health care to our citizens regardless of cost. Many factors such as obesity and smoking have lowered the health of Americans and, thus, lowered our ranking with the WHO.
You don't need insurance to get health care in America!
demonpreyer 1 year ago
Boehner's Bill Passes! 402-1 LOL Liberals own this one, Man-up! They all need to be investigated! Massa is the living "Poster Child" for the progressive liberals. Now, since the p-libs threw Massa under the "Hope and Change" oBAMA express bus, he no longer matters, but now Pelosi and all the other progressive liberal ding-heads will be investigated! oBAMA is next on the list!! How's that hopey changey thing working out for yaa? LOL FACT: oBAMA = Failure!
demonpreyer 1 year ago
Record deficit for a month is this month and it is a $220 Billion deficit for this month.
Bush's 08 total deficit was in the ballpark of $400 BILLION.
WOW! One month $220 BILLION.
Last year total deficit was $1.5 TRILLION and this year will top that. If you add 09 and 10, we will have more than 25% to our national debt in a time when our Nation's financial situation is worse off than most emerging markets. It is a sad day when Brazil has a more stable economy than we do.
bkdmd 1 year ago
Obama gave Pelosi all the heavy lifting on the Health Care Bill. Now Nancy might be a very good grandmother, but she has the IQ of an apple core. Just yesterday the Speaker said "we have to pass the Health Care Bill, so we can find out what's in it." I could fall down laughing if this were not so serious. Obama should stop flying around the country making speeches and stay in DC to fix the unemployment crisis.
09reason 1 year ago
Yes, Healthcare reform! Whats in it? Mo Gov Jobs and salaries to pay. If you work at fast food stores, cashiers, bartenders, waitersget out your checkbook and ready to pay. Uncle Obama needs more of your paycheck to pay for his new Gov Staff. If you dont pay you go to jail, simple.
We all pay for the DMV for life. Now, add DHS (Department of Healthcare Services) to your bills. Hand off my paycheck!!! Enough, Enough
Thank you for paying our salaries, sign Union
yesilike101 1 year ago
Is grhc going to increase the national debt? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to take away your freedom to choose? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to make you pay whether you want it or not? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to be a watered down version of what we have now? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to make you pay for someone else's abortion whether you like it or not? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to force children to take flu shots whether the parents like it or not? FACT:Yes.
demonpreyer 1 year ago
Is government run health care going to raise your taxes? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to create more jobs? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to make you more healthy? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to create more health care rationing? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to create doctor and nurse shortages? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to be the same "Top Notch" health care that congress gets? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to save more lives? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to cost more than what you're paying the insurance companies now? FACT:Yes.
demonpreyer 1 year ago
Now the media is reporting Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are attempting to impose a national id card.
Can you say Central Planning, Statism, and more government intrusion, and more government control of your life?
I can. Obama and his regime are statists much along the lines of other statists from history. He wants to tell us how we have to live our lives and what we can eat while he smokes.
Libs not practicing what they preach is my biggest reason I don't trust them. This includes Gore and AGW.
bkdmd 1 year ago
Is it like a cpr-number?
Every single Dane has a personal cpr-number. I actually agree with you on that point. My cpr-number makes me feel like a piece of cattle. It's an invasion of my privacy
MsTommyknocker 1 year ago
Lmfao! Republicans caused Katrina did they? And failed wars? Funny thing. The Taliban no longer control Afghanistan and Saddam has been overthrown, tried for genocide, found guilty, and executed. The people of Iraq actually vote for who they want now. As do the Afghans. Despite violence on election day they STILL vote. Where is the failure? Other than your assessment on the wars.
billabong24041 1 year ago
The Big issue right now isnt Heathcare its all the teachers loosing there jobs.
Arent democrats big on education why are they ignoring it?
they are focused always on the wrong thing to late.
wrchybear 1 year ago
1ruskie, This is a disaster!
moonphibes 1 year ago
moonphibes - I don't think the far-left progressive democrats care what you or I think. By the time Obama and his liberal radicals are through, the American public will be totally dependent upon the federal govt.
Which is what they want, an all powerful central govt ran out of Moscow, I mean Washington.
1ruskie101 1 year ago
Why would anyone want the government to start up and manage another entitlement program when the programs we already have are going bankrupt and are clearly mismanaged? This makes no sense. Do the liberal democrats think no one is paying attention?
moonphibes 1 year ago
I think they don't care. They have their shot and come hell or high water they're seizing the opportunity. They'll fully deserve facing lynch mobs when they're done with this.
billabong24041 1 year ago
Single payer healthcare doesn't work. I'm an Indian and I get 'free' healthcare for life and all Indians have for about 75 years and Indians have the worst health of all ppl in the country. That's what u get with govt healthcare.
p4h10oso 1 year ago
@p4h10oso
Single payer works just fine in Norway, Japan, Sweden, Italy, Finland, Portugal, Canada and the Netherlands, delivering healthcare that's as good as insured Americans get while costing half as much (10%GDP vs 17%GDP) and leaving nobody uncovered.
If single payer is so bad, just try taking it away from people who have Medicare and see what happens.
But why bother mentioning single payer when that is NOT what they're proposing?
TrollBuster9090 1 year ago 2
As good as Americans get yet we have a higher cancer survival rate. And a higher heart attack and stroke survival rate. And we have shorter waits in the e.r. By exactly what measure do you consider them "as good"?
billabong24041 1 year ago
@billabong24041
By just about every measure, single payer systems like Canada come out with the same or better outcomes at half the cost, while leaving nobody uninsured.
openmedicine. ca/article/view/8/1
And all rank better in preventable deaths:
reuters. com/article/idUSN07651650
And your cancer numbers are actually a false comparison on the part of David Gratzer.
factcheck. org/elections-2008/a_bogus_cancer_statistic. html
TrollBuster9090 1 year ago 3
That's why they all come to our healthcare system for major operations. Canada's single payer system is not bad; however, if it didn't have the US' healthcare system right next door, it would suck just like the rest of the world's single payer healthcare systems suck!
DrtyKorean 1 year ago
When statistics aren't on your side, it's a common rhetorical trick to cite a few isolated examples and pretend they're typical when they're not. You can probably name one or two millionaires who come to the USA for treatment, but in reality the number of Canadians who actually do that is miniscule:
content. healthaffairs. org/cgi/content/abstract/21/3/19
Much smaller than the number of Americans who go there.
nytimes. com/1993/12/20/world/americans-filching-free-health-care-in-canada. html
TrollBuster9090 1 year ago 2
I'm not buying it. plain and simple. the W.H.O ranks us low because we don't have socialized medicine. Not exactly something to rate a health care system on. Our system puts out more innovation than any other. I've met plenty of people that come from other countries to the hospital in my city for cancer treatment. Sorry, but if they had a better chance in their home country they wouldn't be coming here.
billabong24041 1 year ago
Why are you mentioning the WHO ranking? I said nothing about the WHO rankings. I gave you a ranking on preventable deaths from the New York Kaiser Foundation. The USA ranks 19th of 19 at preventing deaths from trivial things like diabetes, mainly because we leave so many people uncovered.
And sorry, the U.S. is not number one in innovation, Europe is.
content. healthaffairs. org/cgi/content/abstract/hlthaff. 28.5. w969v1
Six of the ten largest Biotech/Pharma corps are in Europe.
TrollBuster9090 1 year ago 3
Your website doesn't seem to be completely legit. It allows anybody to place a document on it and about the story you linked to for my comment, why did they not give specific numbers or percentages? They only said "the number is actually miniscule." But no numbers were in the report. It cannot be trusted. Also, the site is funded by many liberal organizations, so I believe it may have its own agenda.
DrtyKorean 1 year ago
Lol, 19th of 19? Still not buying justification for it. And if you want to talk about death by diabetes... Let's talk sugar content and accessibility to sugar products. It's no fault of our medical community that America has an addiction to high fructose corn syrup. High blood pressure and cholesterol? Look no farther than the salt content of tv dinners and artificial foods like margarine. This is no failure of the medical community. It's Americans making choices for fast food over health
billabong24041 1 year ago
Yet another argument against socialized health care. If the government is responsible for people's health then they are going to have to charge extra for lifestyle decisions that are bad for you. Here in America we used to believe in the freedom to choose for yourself. That means being able to eat greasy burgers and an extra large fry without extra taxes to cover your additional medical risk. It's not the governments job to wipe your ass. Learn to wipe your own.
billabong24041 1 year ago
Did they take the jail time out of the Senate version of the government takeover of our healthcare bill? Or does the IRS just simply garnish your wages and seize funds from your bank account? Some of the House versions of the government takeover included jail time but I think they finally stripped it out.
Of course it could easily be added back in thru the reconciliation process.
moonphibes 1 year ago
@moonphibes - I went to the democrat website and it says jail time has thus far been removed from this version of govt takeover. But if you refuse to pay, your wages will be garnished and/or your bank account deducted. True that it could be put back in through Reconciliaton.
Sad isn't it. This is the far-left progressive democrats for you.
1ruskie101 1 year ago
Agreed. Spending is the biggest problem in the congress of today. Washington DC needs to stop ignoring the constitution. Abide by the constitutional mandate for a limited government with a limited scope of power.
xxramblingsxx 1 year ago
Thomas Jefferson: "The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty." .Thus, a safety net like Medicaid is ok, but universal healthcare will make them too comfortable in their poverty. And if you dont believe universal healthcare is for the poor, then understand something: Wealth redistribution is not in the Constitution.
.
.
SuperCaliforniaGuy 1 year ago
Well Said My Friend from Cal..Progressives, Liberals put themselves as God. And there way, they think is always better.
mtnmanquin 1 year ago
Ben Franklin actually... But I love the quote.
billabong24041 1 year ago
The real costs are: [by Monkey & SuperCal] (1) 10 years of taxes for 6 years of benefits.
(2) Cut $460 billion from Medicare.
(3) Rob $52 billion from SS.
(4) Rob $72 billion from long-term disability.
(5) Double count the above as bill cost offsets.
(6) Transfer $371 billion into another bill called Doc Fix.
Thus, the true cost is $2.3 trillion for first 10 years, not the democrats advertised $950 billion. This means ballooning the deficit.
.
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SuperCaliforniaGuy 1 year ago
"It's clear that we are on the precipice" of a major health care overhaul.
-oBAMA (tells the truth by slip of the tongue)
precipice: A cliff with a vertical, nearly vertical, or overhanging face. A situation of great peril: on the precipice of war.
oBAMA is a liar and a thief, and will go down in history as such.
demonpreyer 1 year ago
Well said. What He did not say is very soon if things don't change he may have to back up what he says, and guess what. the military will not be with him. To all 1 if by land 2 if by sea..
mtnmanquin 1 year ago
Is grhc going to increase the national debt? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to take away your freedom to choose? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to make you pay whether you want it or not? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to be a watered down version of what we have now? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to make you pay for someone else's abortion whether you like it or not? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to force children to take flu shots whether the parents like it or not? FACT:Yes.
Liberal = Failure. oBAMA is a liar and a thief!
demonpreyer 1 year ago
Is government run health care going to raise your taxes? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to create more jobs? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to make you more healthy? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to create more health care rationing? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to create doctor and nurse shortages? FACT:Yes.
Is grhc going to be the same "Top Notch" health care that congress gets? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to save more lives? FACT:No.
Is grhc going to cost more than what you're paying the insurance companies now? FACT:Yes.
demonpreyer 1 year ago
Obama couldn't sell watermelons along the road even with the highway patrol flagging people to stop and buy.
Codger45caliber 1 year ago
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xxramblingsxx 1 year ago
"legalized bribery". That sounds like what democrats are doing to get votes for their bill. Not to mention the threats.
Are all democrat politicians just pawns?
xxramblingsxx 1 year ago
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xxramblingsxx 1 year ago