Lerner v. Dershowitz

[Shiftingfly]

Dershowitz is a mad dog

[Shiftingfly]

Dershowitz is a mad dog

[jewshmu]

Very clearly Dershowitz won this factual debate. Lerner cannot get over his double standard and ignored the questions he faced. Lerner is not an anti-semite he is just an ignoramous and intellectually dishonest. He couldnt give one example when asked point blank for one example of what he accuses people of doing.

[sherhak]

rabbi lerner = honest and noble man

dershowitz = dishonest and ignoble man

[Seigu007]

Douchewitz is a pathological liar and someone should gas his entire family.

[MaxamillianArturo]

Someone needs to gas Lerner.

[urcritic]

Everybody here knows Dershowitz is a liar right? Ok, just checking.

[steute2011]

Dewshowitz is out of his mind. We all know that people who speak out against Israeli policy are frequently attacked by pro-Israel supporters, whom will immediately start with the accusation of anti-semitism. On You Tube you see all the time. Sometimes they even call you a Nazi as well and claim that you hate all Jews.

[PeaceandUnity1972]

@ShaggyAce

are you serious? this dershowitz guy is a fraude a liar ? and you think he s the man?

[OrthodoxDarwinist]

Here is Alan Dershowitz the Zionist clown arguing that torture should be legalized:

"The treaties against all forms of torture must begin to recognize differences in degree among varying forms of rough interrogation, ranging from trickery and humiliation, on the one hand, to lethal torture on the other."

Anyone who supports this monster is clearly morally degenerate.

[IslamISsick1]

Islam is a cult created by a psychopath. It cannot be reformed. It must be eradicated. Islam must be eradicated not because the Quran says Earth is flat or the shooting stars are missiles that Allah fires at the Jinns who climb the heaven to eavesdrop on the conversation of the exalted assembly. These stupid tales could even amuse us. Islam must go because it teaches hate, it orders killing of non-Muslims, it denigrates women and it violates the human rights.

[zeroceiling]

@IslamISsick1

Well you are describing the beliefs of 12th century Europe.....yet they reformed..given enough time..

What was Japan like towards any prisoners and towards Americans before and during World War II?

Pure hatred....yet look at them today....

By the way..ignorance is not a crime...or we would all be facing the firing squad..

I agree that Islam is difficult to comprehend but that does not mark it for destruction....though perhaps its present leadership could benefit from a change

[gobuddyboy]

alan is a fucking tool

[wrldeye12]

many critics of Israel are not anti-Semitic, but every anti-Semite is a critic of Israel, and that includes the anti-semitism sweeping the Muslim/Arab world

[zeroceiling]

In a completely unbiased world, we form a hypothesis and then seek to prove it right or wrong by utilizing all information..both that which supports the position and that which disproves it.

This is the only way to arrive at an unbiased truth.

However, there are many..many people..that have decided..based on Carter's world views, that no matter what he produced in his book it was bound to be anti-semitic.

The only information sought then,was the proof to support this point.

Correct or not!

[hassanibnali]

Dershowitz: "I criticize Israel all the time, I criticize how its too fair when it comes to justice, I criticize how it upholds human rights so well, I criticize the fact that its the only democracy in the middle east.., Yeah, I criticize Israel all the time"

[cryjesuscry]

@hassanibnali so he can't point out the good about a country that gets nothing but lies and rhetoric hurled at it and still criticize aspects of it? your logic is retarded sir

[zeroceiling]

in order to stay fair in this area I do have to quote a typical argument I have with my mother.

You see..she firmly, before any information to the contrary, decided that OJ was innocent.

She then read and sought out ONLY those pieces of information which supported this position..so she had a preconceived belief and only accepted and researched that which supported this view.

Contrary information did not interest her nor did she find it interesting or truthful.

Perhaps your view of Carter.

[gabes80]

You may not like Dershowitz, but he's absolutely correct. I agree with Lerner on a lot of issues, but he's deeply wrong about Israel.

[sssssjjjj1]

dang, is this moderator sucking up to her masters or what. That was pathetic. I mean that was disgusting. When she gets home her kids will say, darn mom, you're a shill. Do you have to do that to keep your job. oh well, it's better than your last job out on the corner. har har har. And by the way, soon you'll quit that other job right. you said you would." Then she says, shut up and go spin your dradel. hahaha.

[sssssjjjj1]

I'm turning over a new leaf. Lerner has won me over. From now on, I like this guy. I used to support Israel then after the internet came and research became easy I see we've been brainwashed by the zionists. I'd be really for israeli state if they would lighten up to say the least. But when they white phosphorus kids and deny it when I just seen it, then eventually they say, not, "I"m sorry," but, "so!" this duchwits calls everyone antisemite. Alan is funny. NOt in that good of way.

[alboss13]

Just counted the comments of people on this video. 92% say Dershowitz is a pathological liar. I wonder if this guy ever listens to what he says.

[qigong1001]

No, Lerner was never called an anti-semite....they just vandalized his home and called him a self-hating jew and claim he is a mere tool for neonazi groups. Oh...but at least he was never called an anti-semite. Dershowitz=fail.

[madmiguelh2o]

Dershowits is a critic of Israel? I'd hate to meet a supporter of Israel.

[drumsforpete]

Dershowitz says @ 5:08 : "I've never called Carter an anti-semite" Really? I think he went a little further than that. Just search: "Dershowitz Carter"

[xanderkhaan]

the palistinian authority? lmao pal has been wiped off the map for 62 yrs they are in a berlin wall , isreal is an arpathied state , and has commited acts of ethnic cleaning see "nakba" and illegal settlements what germany did for 6 yrs isreal did for 62yrs

[JonasMMG]

Also lol at Dershowitz being a "critic of israel." FOH dude.

[JonasMMG]

Dershowitz is a clown. Kind of sad that a dude as smart as him devotes so much energy to being a propagandist, and to not be respected by anyone else in academia, that would make me cry myself to sleep at night.

[goose3249]

my god both these men are ugly... i've never seen 2 douches look more douchey

[gamesbok]

I'm sorry, but I watched Zionists creating lebensarum for the herrenvolk at the expense of the untermensch. If there's something not Nazi about this I wish someone could tell me.

Of course Dershowitz cannot demonstrate that the anti-semite accusation doesn't happen in any finite number of observations.

I've found it common, and it's a daily event for Robert Fisk.

[FamilyGuyRocks89]

Michael Lerner = owned.

[amorevolous4]

If you are among the Ashkenazim, like the vast majority of Jews around the world, then what does semitism have to do with you? Why not call yourself Gentiles while you're at it?

[moezephead]

hahah this Lerner guy made a real fool of himself, it's sad that Dershowitz even had to waste his time dealing with the likes of him and his absurd and unfounded accusations

[jonc343]

he is not a genuine rabbi!!! he is a liberal who distorts judaism!

[fearnoevilexceptbush]

You mean to say, that he has a different opinion than you hold cq you would like him to have? Freedom of opinion, it's a bitch...

[2a7e2l91x]

Mr. Derschowitz is the biggest Anti-Semitie, because you MUSN'T forget Arabs are Semites, as wel....

[TomerMMHA]

The original term "antisemitism" referenced a specific phenomenon of the hatred of Jews. That's what people mean when they say it. Now, even if both peoples are semite, so what? I mean, if a black person kills another black person, does that mean that the murderer is a white supremacist? Or hates blacks? What if someone in the US kills a slimeball school shooter named Goldberg? Does that mean the guy who saved lives by taking down the shooter hates Jews?

[2a7e2l91x]

The problem of your way of thinking is that you leave out an interesting fact, referring Anti-Semitism: Over 95% of all Semites are Arabs! And there have been Arabs (Semites), who have been disposed for more than 60 years by Israel. If you accuse me of being Anti-Semitic, I demand you to get aware of its actual meaning.

Besides, the biggest part of the nowadays population in Israel isn't even Semitic, at all. About 80% of the people have European roots.

[skabudaw1]

then why are arabs often being labaled with the stupid term antisemitic, while we arabs are more semitic than these wannabe semite ashkenazi..haven't u ever thought of that

[WhoaJ30]

you sound like a fucking idiot.

[fearnoevilexceptbush]

Etymologically you are right (about Semites also including Arabs), but the usual and historical meaning of the word anti-semitism refers to Jews and their culture, just as most people think of the stereotypical tall, blue-eyed and blonde North-European or German. when they use the word 'Aryan' and not Iranian, who also belongs to the Aryan, that is Indo-European/Iranian language family.

[trance2307]

Dershowitz is a slime bag. I bought his recent book, the Case for Peace, and I wouldn't even use it as horse manure.

The man is simply too hard headed to see the absurdity of his argument, which btw ignores the horrific historical injustices in Israel's history.

[joechuckyourtube]

She starts off with a totally idiotic question, which implies that if your criticism of Israel is sufficiently harsh, it is anti-Semitic, the only question being the dividing line. Every reasonable person understands that criticism of a state (and its policies) composed primarily of Jewish citizens is DIFFERENT from a prejudicial and/or irrational hatred/fear of Jews." At what point does criticism of Bush become a desire to sleep with his wife?" How the hell does one answer that?

[joechuckyourtube]

Man, she is hot!

[genYprogressive]

God bless Rabbi  Michael Lerner.

[whturschoice]

I did this, I did that. Not a very good way to convince people. Only people with guilty conscious will go out of their way to prove them self.

you can say whatever you want but your actions speak louder than your words Mr Dershwiz.

[KennBurch]

Campbell Brown was clearly hostile toward Rabbi Lerner(you could hear the contempt in her voice) and sychophantic to Dershowitz. She also seemed far more interested in showing off her blonde highlights than in letting an actual balanced discussion take place. This one could have been called "No BIas?....BULLSHIT!"

[whauffend]

Dershowitz does not criticize Israel: he justifies the illegal, inhuman couquest of palestinian land since that went on since the strange English gift. Judge for yourself, and if you need help: Watch 'Occupation 101', listen to what Finkelstein and Chomsky have to say. Are you a in the camp of Carter, Desmond Tutu, Noam Chomsky and all of the almost 200 countries in the UN (except the US and Isreal)... or are you a Dershowitz? The man is a smoke blowing apologetic for Israeli injustice.

[whturschoice]

Oh look at me I criticize. I am so full of it.

[Justincasey2]

Dershowitz is a sssssssssssnake!

[zeroceiling]

Did I just hear Dershowitz calmly state that he has "never" called President Carter an "anti-semite"????...

This is the amazing ease with which he simply....denies facts....it appeares to be a "scary " natural act for him...

..just listen to the first few sentences in the video just below called: "Alan Dershowitz Blasts President Jimmy Carter.."

[fuzzywzhe]

@zeroceiling "This is the amazing ease with which he simply....denies facts....it appeares to be a "scary " natural act for him..."

All Zionists have to lie. They have to lie about the history of the Palestinian Mandate, it's population, what was done to the indigenous population, what is being done to the indigenous population.

And you're surprised Dershowitz just lied openly about not calling Carter an anti-Semite? He lies for a living, he's a lawyer.

[sugarhitman]

@zeroceiling This interview is before Dershowitz called Carter a bigot....I guess after compiling Carter's extreme anti-Israel statements, he changed his mind.

[zeroceiling]

@sugarhitman

Well...I disagree with any sentiments that are based on bigotry.

For Alan Desrshowitz to express himself as vehemently as he did in the aforementioned video...I would say that he would have first had to tolerate a longstanding anti Israel position by Carter. He is very adamant..in what seems to be a review of one book.

Since you appear to be insulted by Carter's position as well..would you indicate which specific quotes in the book upset you the most? I trust you read it..

[sugarhitman]

@zeroceiling Ive read the reviews and criticism of this "book" and his own tv interviews. The man is a terrorist supporter who is promoting a distorted Narrative. It doesnt matter what the Israelis do to defend themselves people like Carter will condemn it because they are simply Jew haters. I know thats harsh..but if I am aware of the facts surely Jimmy is too..and yet he is promoting lies against he Israelis, by implying its an Apartheid state.

[jackbug43]

@zeroceiling He calls someone an anti-semite 30 seconds later. he's an amazing man

[IslamISsick1]

@zeroceiling I dont see Dershowitz slitting 3 month old babies throats! You sick Muslims are the cancer of the world!

[zeroceiling]

@IslamISsick1

I am not a muslim...I am agnostic..and white.

The usual rule of thumb is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle...so dont play the " we are lilly white" game with me....Israel has enough blood on its hands as well.

Thats not to say muslims are different...they are not innocent and have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace.

Rabin was a true hope in the middle east and I respect the man immensely...his death is tragic

Dhershowitz is no Rabin!

[PeaceandUnity1972]

@IslamISsick1

tell everybody about youre precious talmud?

the talmud says its ok for a jew to Lie, Decieve, Steal, Kill, Rape, Sell the Gentile ( non jew)

youre believes are sick aswell so f islam and if you too moffo

[jewshmu]

being a student of the talmud i do not what source you are referring to. Please back up your claim with a legitimate source and enlighten me with what seems to be a very wrong and offensive statement.

[PeaceandUnity1972]

@jewshmu

as a student of the talmud you would NEVER tell the goyim the truth because the talmud says that telling the truth about youre religion to the goyim is like killing all jews.

tell me what sanhedrin 59a tells in the talmud

[PeaceandUnity1972]

@jewshmu

As always you zionist peace of SHITES place comments on YouTube to make somebody look like a Liar/Deciever and when you confront these SHITES with the TRUTH theire true face is SHOWN........

This dude jewshmu tried to make me look like a liar but know hes confronted with the truth and his account is GONE!!!

i guess its just another member of the ZIOPEDIA trying to DECIEVE US ALL , but we cant even blaim the F.....ER because this is what his sick book teaches them

LMAO i won again

[OrthodoxDarwinist]

@zeroceiling

To Zionists, calling someone an anti-Semite as a knee-jerk reaction to being logically cornered is as natural as breaking wind for the standard person. .

[adam246811]

@zeroceiling He didn't, actually. He called Carter a bigot. A bigot isnt the same as a racist. A racist believes in the superiority of their race, discriminating with this as an impetus. A bigot, on the other hand, is a narrow-minded and dogmatic person who refuses to consider other people's doctrines, and can be against anything from race to sexuality - they dont have to hold the inferiority of a particular religion. Racists are always bigots but bigots arent necessarily racists.

[zeroceiling]

@adam246811

Fair enough...I respect the differentiation....we do have to be somewhat aware that this platform (youtube) will mash the two terms together..

Having said that...do you think that Dr. Dershowitz is is so narrowly focused on the "bigoted" aspect of Carter's position that he feels there should be a "special place in hell" for ...as you say...someone that is , dogmatic and refuses to consider other peoples doctrines?

As this is clearly stated by Dershowitz moments later..

[canadiansusan]

Alan Dershowits is the biggest liar and manipulating bastard. I dont get why he's still allowed to teach when Universities expulse students for Plagerism. And i love when he says" No one calls me an anti-semite and i am a critic of israel"

[cb44ever]

to the ass that sent me shut up idiot thanks for proving my point even more

[maximilianforte]

Since Dershowitz is one of the leading inquisitors himself, and goes around slamming any academic critic as a self-hating Jew, anti-semite, Nazi, and holocaust-denier/minimizers...­he is producing yet another absolute fraud here. He is a plain liar, a fraud as a scholar, and politically a dangerous clown. But CNN loves him.

[dsr99]

Dershowitz is a clown. His so called "reward" is not worth the mouth it comes out of. He has offered rewards in the past then found ways of explaining himself out of paying! Don't take this fraud too seriously. His star is declining.

[bcolton73]

Dershowitz is full of it. I am a supporter of Israel, and when I have criticized Israeli government action (such as the recent Gaza atrocity) I have taken so much crap that I thought I was a toilet. Just because Jewish leaders don't play the "you're an anti-Semite" game doesn't mean that it isn't well-understood in the community that criticism of Israeli military action is unacceptable.

[cb44ever]

because ya criticize in all the wrong ways Im sure I just read an article comparing what the arabs call the nakbah which is already garbage all dershowitz says about them being offered a state and turning it down is true and I would not call ya a biggot if ya said we shouldnt have used certain weapons and smokescreens at the end of the war 2006 but you people also use events that are simply not true or noone knows for sure do ya have any clue what happens to peeps all around the world every day

[KennBurch]

ER...is there a reason you wrote that post in the "Joe Palooka" dialect?

[danndan6]

critisizing israel is fine but supporting it is taboo..........so true

[VozAlternativa]

Dreshowitz = What a LIAR and a HYPOCRITE! Is this inreview after what he did to Finkelstein?

[ThoughtProcess1]

oh and dershowitz is a disgusting naive moron. hopefully when he dies he will go to hell.

[cb44ever]

statefacts not insult

[ThoughtProcess1]

shut up you idiot

[ThoughtProcess1]

lerner is correct. it is fact. finklestein is an excellent debater.

[7beers]

I thought that this was a good debate, and that the moderator did a great job.

[BenJB07]

as for JohnnyRock2000, Finklestien is a terrible debater. Without Noam Chomsky very few people would even know of Finklestien.

[BenJB07]

imadouchebag65, you are an idiot. proven plagiarist? If I am not mistaken, when Chomsky and Finklestein accused him of plagiarism every single Ivy League school cleared Dershowitz's name. people like you are disgusting.

[oldjoe5]

Just not so.

[KennBurch]

Dershowitz clearly did plagiarize Joan Peters' now-totally discredited "From Time Immemorial", (and even used the Mark Twain "Innocents Abroad" quote about a non-cultivated area of Palestine, a quote into which Peters inserted the word "Jezreel" in an ellipse, despite the fact that Twain was not talking about the Vale of Jezreel, but a far different area, and despite the fact that Twain had another quote where he documented widespread Palestinian cultivation of the land).

[imadouchebag65]

Dershowitz is a slanderer, liar and proven plagiarist.

[juliaisafilmbuff]

He's a lawyer! Who's surprised?

[JohnnyRock2000]

Dershowitz is an attack dog for AIPAC. His is a blowhard...

He certainly DID call Carter a bigot.

[juliaisafilmbuff]

Dershowitz is such a douchebag. He should just go back to defending OJ Simpson and all those other screwed up celebrities and stay out of international affairs.

[warmperson2007]

This debate is nonsense!

[badbubbagump]

Dershowitz is a duplicitas slime ball,who lies as easily as he breathes.If you want to see a better debate type dershowitz finkelstein into google video and watch him squirm.Dershowitz tried to inlist in the IDF in 1967..thats an american citizen swearing allegiance to a foreign country,so his opinion on Israel is hardly objective.Also, he was one of OJ Simpsons lawyers..the man should have just took the big bag of money he sold his soul for and STFU.

[kdascher]

Lerner did offer evidence; he cited criticism of Carter by the Anti-Defamation League, headed by people such as Abraham Foxman. The ADL called Carter a "bigot" and people who are far more critical of Israel than Michael Lerner such as Norman Finkelstein are referred to as "anti-semites" or "self-hating Jews". Dershowitz knew Lerner was right, and that's why he had to talk over him at the end. I do agree that CNN is no place to hear a valid debate (nor are the other U.S. MSM networks).

[kissfan7]

They called Carter a "anti-Israel bigot", not an antisemite. Webster's says a bigot is "a person who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed".

Finkelstein isn't called an antisemite because he's critical. He's called that because he supports HAMAS, his books are sold on Holocaust denial websites, and he thinks that "Shindler's List" is part of a Jewish conspiracy. Like Dershowitz said, some critisism of Israel is clearly antisemitic and Finkelstein's clearly crosses that line.

[rooeen]

Not true. Dershowitz initially declined to debate Finkelstein and had refused to be on a show with him, saying " I do knot appear on shows with anti semites". It's on Youtube, look it up. Also, Finkelstein book was praised by Raul Hillberg as true and conservative. Furthermore, just because he supports Hammas does not make him an anti semite, nor does the fact that some groups use his books for whatever reason.

[kissfan7]

Almmost every scholar who read the Finkelstein's book hated it. Even his idol, far-left writer Peter Novick, called it trash (Hilberg was an expert on the mechanism of the Holocaust, not what Finkelstein wrote about).

Supporting terrorists, interviewing Holocaust deniers, letting them sell your book for $13, calling the Holocaust an "extortion racket", and promoting Jewish conpiracies isn't antisemitic? Is your definition of racism that loose also? Does David Duke qualify? Does the KKK?

[rooeen]

Absolutely false. Many scholars have praised his book, inlcuding leading intellectual Chomsky, but you probably may consider him antisemitic. Hillberg also praised his book and it's content. You also consider him an expert on the mechanism of the Holocaust and also the pioneer in the study of the Holocaust. That makes his opinion on what Finkelstein wrote quite worthy.

Finkelstein doesnt support terrorists anymore than Dershowtiz. Comparing him to the KKK is so absurd that I can't bother.

[kissfan7]

Chomsky is a polemist. Real historians like Israel Guttman, Omer Bartov, and Hans Momsen called his book trash. Every major publication lothed it. Even leftists like Benny Morris and Peter Novik bashed it. He deals with an area that Hilberg isn't an expert on. It's like a bear expert praising a koala book. That's a generous analogy, because Finkelstein admitted "I can never give a class on the extermination of the Jews." He's a conspiracy theorist, not a scholar.

I compared HAMAS to the KKK.

[rooeen]

Unfortunately you seem to think you know who the real historians are and who are not, who is an expert and who is not. You pick and choose what fits your point. If you read and listen to Finkelstein, you will see that he makes valid points and arguments. Simply bashing him does not change the content of his work and many others. Give objectivity a chance and give passionate prejudice a break. There are three sides to a story. Yours, mine, and the cold heart truth.

[kissfan7]

I don't decide who is a real historian, historians do. If you don't write scholarly papers, don't teach history, get fired for incompetence and instability, and flat out lie in your books then you aren't a historian. He is no more a sholar than David Irving, whom Finkelstein called "a good historian".

I have given "objectivity a chance" and his books and lectures don't pass the test. I can't list every fabrication in 500 characters, but I suggest you read his many critics and learn them.

[rooeen]

I completely disagree. What has he lied about? what has he fabricated? He has backed up his assertions with facts, unlike Dershowitz and others that have debated him. You don't have to agree with everything he says, but to reject him and all his work is unreasonable to me. Have you read his books, or are you simply going by what his critics have said and letting them judge for you? I've listened to his critics and to those that have endorsed him and I think he is totally legit.

[kissfan7]

I already told you I've read some and seen him. I can't list every lie but here are some:

He said there was a "public silence" on the Holocaust between '45 and '67 (ignoring tons of books and war-crimes trials at that time), libeled Elie Wiesel by saying he lied about reading Immanuel Kant in Yiddish, lied about Egyptian POWs being excecuted in '67 when in fact Israel went out of its way to rescue them from the desert, and he misquoted Guenter Lewy saying 500,000 Roma died in the Holocaust.

[juliaisafilmbuff]

"Tons of books"?? If you did your research you'd know that before 1967 there were only three English-language books on the holocaust. And yes, Wiesel DOES, in fact, mystify the nazi holocaust.

[kissfan7]

Anne Frank's Diary, "The Destruction of the European Jews", "Eichmann in Jerusalem", "Hitler's Professors", "If This is a Man", and "Night" were all published in the US in English before the Six Day War. There have been other works, but those are just ones off the top of my head. Surely you've read, or at least heard of, four of those books, right? Because if you haven't you'd be only slightly less qualified than Finkelstein to talk about the Shoah.

How does Wiesel "mystify" the Holocaust?

[FI32690]

I was told there were a few books about holocaust before 1961 ?

Wiesel is a HYPOCRITE.

[JohnnyRock2000]

You have a great point....

but it is cold hard truth.

[KennBurch]

Point of information...Benny Morris is no longer a "leftist". The man now believes Palestinians DESERVED to be forced out of their homes in 1948 and is opposed to any effort to make peace.

[kissfan7]

"believes Palestinians DESERVED to be forced out of their homes in 1948"

a) "forced out of their homes" is an oversimplification. b) he said he "understood" why some might believe that.

"is opposed to any effort to make peace."

Few on any side love war. We just have disagreements on how to have as few wars as possible.

In any case, he criticised "The Holocaust Industry" when he was voting left. He, like many, switched after the PA refused to negotiate at Camp David.

[JohnnyRock2000]

Finkelstein is one smart debater who would chew up and eat Dershowitz for breakfast.

[juliaisafilmbuff]

Dude, Finkelstein kicks ass. His arguments on Israel-Palestine are actually good, and not just the same four already-debunked pseudofacts over and over (like Dershitz).

[kissfan7]

"I don't really know much about Israel." -Norman Finkelstein

Jerusalem Report, 8/28/00

We may disagree on this, but I think "one smart debater" would actually know a bit about what he or she is debating about.

[abusalahedin]

Dershowitz is an idiot zionist nazi.

[KennBurch]

UH...you just gave the kind of response Dershowitz WANTED you to give.

[transistorized]

what a crappy debate. none of them offer any evidence.

Only on US news channels