Protecting Sea Turtles and Human Babies

[wjl1970]

The argument that abortion is not really a woman's issue i.e. that there is a greater concern - that of the life of the fetus is only partially true. If you will not allow a women to have an abortion (at least in some extreme situations) then you better have appropriate supports for women after the baby is born! - unfortunately it has been proven through history that male clerics who do the most shouting haven't facilitated women after their babies are born e.g. the Magdelene laundries!

[BardlyG]

There are an extra 80 million humans on the planet each year.

We don't need to extinguish any more species just to squeeze in a few more whose mothers do not even want them.

Something will break.

[AbortionKillsBabies]

@BardlyG

Yeah I was back in Africa recently and you know what..I remember thinking there were just FAR TOO many stars twinkling in the night sky!

[aaa333ify]

And as for illegal abortions that are unsafe for the mother, we should enforce the law better.

[aaa333ify]

Legalizing abortions subliminally teaches society that it is acceptable behavior. It is unhealthy to live in a nation (don't get me wrong I'm proud to be American) that condones killing human life. This is regardless of the fact that legalized abortions are safer than illegal abortions.

[CatholicCoatHanger]

Prior to Roe v. Wade, as many as 5,000 American women died annually as a direct result of unsafe abortions.4 Today, abortion is one of the most commonly performed clinical procedures in the United States, and the current death rate from abortion at all stages of gestations is 0.6 per 100,000 procedures. This is 11 times safer than carrying a pregnancy to term and nearly twice as safe as a penicillin injection.2

[eurasianchica]

@CatholicCoatHanger There's no doubt that a surgically professional, sanitary abortion is safer than a coathanger/kick to the belly abortion. But the thing is, it is still ends with the death of a baby. I mean, it's like saying it's better to murder someone with a gun than with your fists because you're less likely to get injured in the process.

[CatholicCoatHanger]

@eurasianchica

but ..... we're not talking about babies here or children of any age. And if abortion is murder as many if not most orthodox catholics or christian fundamentalists assert then there are many flaws in this fallacious belief because most conceptions by the strictest definition end in spontaneous abortion by something like the 12th week gestational age.

[eurasianchica]

@CatholicCoatHanger We are talking about babies. Very young individual human beings. Location- whether they are inside the womb, just born, or halfway in between doesn't matter. Of course, the abortion that we consider murder is when a person intentionally kills the fetus, just as if the fetus was all grown up and born. If it's wrong to consider abortion murder because a lot babies die before birth, it's wrong to consider killing a 90 year old murder because most people don't make it past 76.

[CatholicCoatHanger]

History shows that from the time of the Egyptians to the present, women have always tried to terminate unwanted pregnancies. Most of the time self-induced abortions are performed when women either become desperate, or they don't have access to safe, legal medically induced abortion services.

[CatholicCoatHanger]

Thank you Fr Pavone for your dedication to out cause

[CatholicCoatHanger]

I love this guy!! ... I love that he can't see the blood on his own hands. I love that he looks the other way as boys are molested by his comrades by the thousands as he strives to bring back the days of the illegal back room abortion and the death of thousands more women as a result. Thanks Fr Pavone, great job!!!

[AbortionKillsBabies]

Legal Abortion Death: Lee Ann Alford, 34

Leigh Ann Stephens Alford, age 34, underwent a safe and legal abortion at the hands of Dr. Malachy DeHenre at Summit Medical Center of Alabama, a National Abortion Federation member clinic, on November 25, 2003.

[GhettoBlaster100]

this makes me so mad, there are a helluva lot more humans than seaturtles

[choicemanesdemocracy]

One of the best prolife messages EVER!

[Tylonous]

Yeah. Sea turtles are endangered. Humans are not. It's not like we'll be running out of humans any time soon.

[Ayerea]

First of all, you are an anti-Semite. Not cool. Jew Watch? Really!?

Those are conspiracy websites, being a national security officer does not make you more reputable then anyone else.

Your last sentence does not make sense.

However i do believe in 1 world, were all here, were all humans and were all totally screwing ourselves over. You want to sit back and think the Jews are taking over, fine. But don't use your flawed, conspiracy theory ridden ideas to convince me otherwise.

[Ayerea]

Well you are right in some sense, yes the big banks are corrupt, of course they are, the only reason why they are is because the republican party doesn't like government regulations over them. And that website has no real facts, the national inquirer is just as reputable.

Also, using the god argument does not work for me, if you don't want abortions, don't get one.

[Ayerea]

Actually, we haven't developed that tech quite yet... were trying though. And again, wilderness is really important, if we build on it, the trillions of dollars in ecosystem services that it provides will go away.

the Memorandum is us wanting countries that will contribute to population growth the most to implement ways of controlling population, like birth control and condoms... and yes abortions. the whole world needs to do this, yes everyone, not killing elderly, but being smart about kids.

[Ayerea]

Again, water treatment may be possible, but where will you get food? that actually takes space to grow.

And I'm sorry, but using science to refute your silly claims about these off the wall ideas of yours. Do you have any facts to support that the Bolshevlk Elitists are doing anything, who are they?

And according to the data I'm looking at, some places in the US were hotter then normal, some were cooler. That averages out to...well the average of the past 30 years.

Bring be data.

[Ayerea]

1st-Wilderness is important to keeping this world working. (google "ecosystem services") secondly, WE NEED THE FARMLAND. where else are you going to get food? You don't seem to understand the definition of overpopulation. SPACE does not matter. And I can find NO data to support your final claim. I'm looking at GIS data now that shows this year so far for the US has been anywhere from 3-7 degrees (f) hotter then the past 30 year average.

[Ayerea]

Sure arizona is settled, however in 30 years with the current trend, southern Arizona will no longer have water to drink. Last i checked, thats over reaching carrying capacity. And sure your house in on a corn field, but what happens if we destroy all the farm land for houses, sure everyone has a house, but no one has anything left to eat. Again, this is the kinda stuff im studying in college. you want to argue, lean about populations and the way they work, then come talk to me.

[Ayerea]

Most of the interior is FARM LAND or places where humans cant live. Carrying capacity isnt just SPACE, its mainly how much food is there to eat and how much clean water is there to drink. and were running out of that much faster then space my friend. doing a little research before refuting (by the way, the environmental science major) might help you a little.

[judeochristianunity]

Interesting comparison between abortion and sea turtle rules. That's a great point. I agree. Abortion is bad!

[Briongloid08]

A pretty weak comparison...

Some people really do believe that animal life is more important than the unborn or just as relevent.

[Ayerea]

Sea Turtles are endangered, humans are not. Killing sea turtles can wipe out the species from this earth forever, humans...well theres far too many of us.

[jeffcoat1959]

Unborn sea turtles protected, but not unborn humans -- amazing!

[prolifeinternational]

If enacted, FOCA would obliterate hundreds of state laws that protect women, parents, children, and health care workers, while forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for millions of abortions. It would overturn commonsense laws like parental notification, Conscience Protections, abortion waiting periods, informed consent, and regulations for women's health.

Obama's Freedom of Choice Act. Don`t let it become law!

[GodEqualsLove4ever]

God bless you & your work, Father Pavone! And God save the babies, the turtles, the whales, the owls, the polar bears & the rain forest! Thank you God for Your Creation; thank you God for Life; thank you God for blessing us with the responsibility to look out for the innocent & helpless--please help us protect Life; help us protect Your Creation. Amen.

[prolifeinternational]

Feminists for Life of America (FFL) is the largest and most visible pro-life feminist organization. Established in 1972 and now based in Alexandria, Virginia, the organization describes itself as "shaped by the core feminist values of justice, nondiscrimination, and nonviolence." FFL asserts they continue the tradition of early American feminists such as Susan B. Anthony, who opposed abortion.

[prolifeinternational]

Attempts to extend British abortion law to Northern Ireland (where abortion is illegal) are reportedly to be shelved after politicians from the province threatened to break off communication with the UK.

[itakoxnoxlaurasan]

'Help Protect Endangered Sea Turtles'

The human race is not endangered, far from it. We're endangering other species.

Because of this, to me, this sign has no purpose for your speech. I will GLADLY reconsider this if you find one that simply says 'Please not to disturb the turtles and their eggs' simply because it's the right thing to do.

[Jitpring]

itakoxnoxlaurasan, every unborn baby facing the barrel of the abortion gun is endangered. Don't think of it on the level of species, because that level of generality is completely irrelevant to the defenseless baby about to be snuffed out. Moreover, the sacredness of life doesn't depend on whether it's endangered. Were the overpopulation myth actually true, this would have absolutely no bearing on whether it's right to murder any baby.

[iloveshoesdoyou]

There is so much going on this world today that is wrong.Women who would do anything to have a child and women who would do anything to get rid of one; It's true, abortion will always exist but if one life is saved through abolishing roe vs. wade than it is worth it...I will not be responding, don't bother to comment on my view...God bless everyone and I pray for an end to abortion or any woman who finds herself at an abortion clinic

[666satanification666]

we can "smash" a baby because there are not problems with a lack of babies being born! If humans were becoming extinct, of course abortion would be illegal! And if there were more sea turtles than there should be, nobody except greenpeace would give a fuck about their eggs!

[prolifeinternational]

666sat It isn`t about numbers or rarity.. Killing unborn babies is wrong and unnacceptable in a world seeking to be civilized.

[angelface713]

you really need to watch your mouth and have some respect. No need for your filthy mouth here.

[SabrinaSilverstien]

Making abortion illegal WILL NOT STOP it so why are so are so many people trying to make it illegal, I'm as pro-life as the next person, but contributing to the death of girls and woman, because they seek an abortion is not my style. I don't want anyone to die, illegalizing abortion is not the answer !

[GodEqualsLove4ever]

Sabrina--many women die these days as a result of an abortion--the hardline pro-abortionists are so blind, they want no restrictions or parameters regulating abortions--so much for caring for women's health! If they really cared, they would want safety regulations to protect women having abortions. See websites by Kathy Ireland & Kim Alexis, former international models. They are Christian pro-lifers.

[SabrinaSilverstien]

I must have made that comment a long time ago, I understand your concern. I merely don't want more woman to die as a result of illegal abortions. Being 7 months pregnant myself I understand the difficulties faced by mothers, none of which should be forced.

[akoanani]

GodEqualsLove4ever thanks for sharing. We know that We have forgiving God but nature isnt.

[WulfgarCommand]

Unbelievable

[atheistliberty]

The difference between the sea turtles and humans is that I am not the one who laid the eggs. The sea turtle laid the eggs. They are not mine to break. Being a man, I am also not in a position to make decisions about how a woman chooses to use her body. Just as I am prevented by law from harming a sea turtle's eggs. I am also prevented by law from harming a woman's fetus. If, on the other hand, she chooses to abort the pregnancy. I do not have the right to stop her, and neither do you.

[prolifeinternational]

atheist..You speak about the fetus or unborn child as though it`s just a piece of property! It isn`t..It`s a seperate and unique human being crated by two parents and comprises of a combination of both their genetic material..We,the parents, are the responsible caretakers of each child,NOT the owners!

[atheistliberty]

How can it be separate when it cannot live without the mother? Until the fetus develops into an being capable of surviving without the mother, it is not a separate and unique human being.

Let me guess, you are a man, yes? It is very seldom that you find women that take such a hard line on this. I think it has to do with the way men like to control women. I have no such hang up and I trust the women in my life to make the right decisions for herself.

[prolifeinternational]

atheist My gender makes no difference here. I am part of the human race. An unborn child is most definitely a separate and unique being,it is dependeant on the mother for warmth,nourishment,and protection so to KILL it in such circumstances would seem to be an especially vile act. I respect ALL life from conception to natural death,and believe that it all deserves equality and protection..If you want to distort that view by claiming that I somehow want to control women,then that is your choice.

[saklocke]

I don't know too many infants that can survive without being cared for by someone else?

[Dothia]

Yes, prolifeinternational is a man, I thankyou, We REALY need more men whom think that woman have the right to CHOOSE abortion is about men controlling woman PERIOD. Men cannot fully understand what it's like to be pregnant, it really shows in the statistics 77% of active anti-abortionist are men 100% of active pro- abortionist are woman, statistics speak for themselves.

[prolifeinternational]

Dothia Re "Men cannot fully understand what it's like to be pregnant," But we don`t need to in order to instinctively know that killing unborn children is TOTALLY barbaric and unacceptable!

[angelface713]

children are not property. I look at it this way, even though the baby lives within the mother for nine months, it has a separate body, organs, and mind, therefore it is unique and quite its own being. like PLI said, we are responsible caretakers of each child not owners.

[TraxX11191]

It's a personal choice...not yours...the mothers...so mind your own business...that's how i feel about it...and i'm not an atheist

[prolifeinternational]

Trax..So are you suggesting that to kill a LIVE unborn child by suction,dismemberment,or the forced induction of labour is a legitimate "personal choice"?..P.S.What`s being or not being an atheist got to do with it?

[Dothia]

Thankyou, we woman need more men whom think as you do.

[666satanification666]

Your all dumbasses

[FrFrankPavone]

Men are hurt by abortion just as women are. The baby is both flesh and blood of the man and the woman and the baby is a seperate being too. See the Silent No More Campaign You Tube Page where men too give their testimonies of the hurt they went through.

[jaystoner99]

I care more about turtles than fetuses

[Vaatrad]

I think this is a strawman argument. I believe you are implying that sea turtles are receiving special treatment; that the reason behind their treatment is different from that of foetuses. Sea turtles and foetuses are considered equally, i.e. we do what we like with them because we do not consider them persons (in the ethical sense). We do what we want with them but these things happen to differ; when we don't want a baby ensure we don't have it, when we want sea turtles we ensure we have them.

[FrFrankPavone]

Dear Vaatrad

Blessings on behalf of Fr. Frank.

Sea Turtles and humans are different. These little people in the womb are our flesh and blood and brother and sisters of humanity. Look at it this way, if our politicians do not respect the life of the unborn, how can they respect your life or my life. As Mother Teresa has said."the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion" With the sea turtles and other animals, we have humnaized them. but with the unborn, we have animalized.

[Sueezee1]

@FrFrankPavone says: ."the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, all wars have been fought over abortion issues. LOVE you LIARS! Praise the Lord, right padra??LOLOL

[FrFrankPavone]

Do you not see bloodshed?

[dillikins]

As soon as human beings are an endangered species, I might give some credence to this argument. Oh, and how many sea turtles are required to raise their young in accordance with a complex social system which demands a certain amount of financial security to ensure the proper raising of a young turtle. I wonder how much it costs the average sea turtle to raise it's offspring. I also wonder how much emotional stress a sea turtle experiences when it is unable to cope with the pressures of life.

[prolifeinternational]

dillikins..Why on earth should humans need to face exctinction before deserving adequate respect,regard and protection? How can you feel so little care and sentiment for your own species? Surely you`re not representing a commonly held view here?...For me at least,your prosaic cynicism is exceeded ONLY by your prosaic cynicism!

[dillikins]

Well, Prolife, what makes you think that I don't believe my "own species" isn't deserving of respect and protection. It is precisely because I do respect human life that I disagree with the idea of people having children when they are ill-equipped to raise them. There are enough unwanted children on this planet already - why add more? I mean, if you and those who hold similar beliefs are prepared to adopt all of the unwanted children of the world, I guess your stance might be justifiable.

[prolifeinternational]

dilli..Your words "As soon as human beings are an endangered species, I might give some credence to this argument." appear to indicate that you regard humans as somehow lesser beings to e.g.sea turtles.Few people are ever fully prepared for a pregnancy and subsequent birth of a child..First time parents can be especially short of know-how and experience. I know I was! But I and many others would undoubtedly rather have life,following an imperfect childhood, than NO LIFE at all!Live and let live.

[dillikins]

Thanks for supporting my argument, Prolife! As you said, "I and many others...". The problem is, not everyone holds your beliefs and not everyone is in a position to adapt to parenthood. And I wasn't referring (in my last post) to parents with a simple lack of "know-how", but to people who, for whatever reason, CANNOT DEAL with being a parent. Parenting is the most demanding and important career there is - should it really be taken on by people who can't cope?

[prolifeinternational]

dilli..People who can`t cope,and could never cope,as parents are rare..The fact that they do exist does not in anyway give credibility to the mass worldwide slaughter of unborn children..But perhaps you`ve met many people who`ve experienced a shit childhood and have consequently told you that they would`ve preferred NEVER to have lived at all? But since I haven`t met any in 49 years I don`t seriously suppose you have either?

[Rlangben]

We have been around for 30,000 years, that is nothing compared to many species including hominids, Homo habilis lived for about 900,000 years, homo erectus for about 1.5 million years. We aren't really as amazing as we think we are. So as we sit here as preach that turtles don't deserve more rights than humans do I beg to differ.

[Rlangben]

Sea turtles are ancient species that have been around for a lot longer than hominids, they do deserve protection. Christians get so weird with topics like these. These are laws protecting turtles getting killed for no reason, not against turtle moms killing their babies inside of them. If there was laws saying turtle mothers can't get abortions but humans can then I would see you point, but for now your analogy is quite strange and out of left field.

[Rlangben]

Sea turtles are and endangered species, while humans are for the most part are over populated in most parts of the world. It should be up to the mother if she will raise a child inside of her body, to have a mother raise a child in her body against her will would be absurd.

[SabrinaSilverstien]

Very ture, I'm going to bring up some questions I feal need to be answered:

1. If the embreyo fetus is a seperate being from the morther, does that give him/her the right to live within the mother and drain her of nutrients and use her as "life support" ?

2. Is sperm steal the mans propperty once it enters the womans body ? If so than should thier be any legal reprocution for any damage caused by he sperm to the woman's body ? (hence the resulting zygote would be conjoint propperty)

[SabrinaSilverstien]

3. If abortion is made illegal hence (resticting a womans legal reproductive rights) what legal ristiction on reproduction should the government inforce upon men, to protect woman ?

No need to flame me I'm pro-life , but I'm really intersted to see what both pro-life and pro-chioce persons , come up with.

[pattiejn]

3. Governments such as China should not REQUIRE abortions. Both parents should have a say in the matter of GETTING PREGNANT but abortion should NEVER be allowed. That baby didn't have a choice at conception but I'm sure he/she would choose life if given the opportunity while in the womb!

I'm pro-life too and am interested in responses. Will check back!

[SabrinaSilverstien]

3. (You assume that embreyos and fetuses can reason and choose until they can this assumption hold no ground)

[pattiejn]

1. The mother, by choosing to get pregnant, gives the right to "life support" to the unborn baby. She can always choose not to get pregnant by abstinence or birth control. Abstinence is free, works 100% of the time & protects against STDs & AIDS. Other forms of birth control are available at the local health department.

2. The sperm DON'T go into the woman's body without the man's consent; they are not stolen but gifts. Baby should be joint responsibility, which too many dads don't take.

[SabrinaSilverstien]

1. Legal consent can only be given by written contracts, so no the woman does not legally consent to being "life support" for the resulting child.

2. If sperm is a gift that means that the resulting child would not be the man's property , but solely that of the womans, because once you give something to somebody it's thier's.(though sperm as a gift is souly an opinion not fact)

[prolifeinternational]

Sabrina Re " no the woman does not legally consent to being "life support" for the resulting child." If she has engaged in consensual sex and is/was aware of the risks then she has consented to the fetus..there`s no need at all of a written contract,it would change nothing!

[SabrinaSilverstien]

I'm talking legal reasoning here, not moral wan't. I wish every woman felt that way, but they don't and honestly no woman should be forced, to endure pregnancy. I also beleive the zygote should be joint propperty, but only of legal consiquences for the man insue, my question was merely asking what legal consiquences should be rendered. With prevellages should come consiquences. Just like sample 1. Woman can get pregnant. 2. We must endure pregnancy to have our child. Privelege and Consiquence.

[prolifeinternational]

pattie Re "She can always choose not to get pregnant by abstinence or birth control" But nirth controkl is not often 100% reliable.. So if the man and woman are FULLY AWARE of this then there is complied consent to the a pregnancy arising from bc failure. Re "Baby should be joint responsibility, which too many dads don't take" It`s true they should be (ALWAYS) a joint responsibility,but some willing dads are PREVENTED from ever having a reasonable level of involvement.

[nahbios]

What a striking comparison. It's completely true - of course there is a place for protecting animals and their habitats (and all this is good)...however, if we recognise that it is right and important to protect sea turtles, how much MORE important and right is it to acknowledge and protect the human right to life, from the moment of conception?

God Bless, Fr. Frank (and all at PriestsForLife and its affliates)! :-D

[prolifeinternational]

Congratulations Father Pavone..this is undoubtedly one of the very best pro-life messages I have ever seen!

[thereselittleflower]

Fr. Pavone, God bless you in all that you do for the Lord. I watched Defending Life on EWTN tonight with Maria, my wife, about the Missionaries of the Gospel of Life. We thank God for all of your ministry! We are doing simple stewardship in Baton Rouge per the National American Holocaust Memorial, where you have toured with Richard Mahoney and even celebrated the Holy Sacrifice of the Lord! We are so glad to hear about another Memorial being developed in Mobile Alabama next week. Godspeed!

[BurtWilson1]

Human foetuses are infinitely more important than the foetuses of any animal. A great point raised by Fr. Pavone.

[pattiejn]

Our local Crisis Pregnancy Center honored those of us who volunteer with a banquet this evening. It gave me new strength for the battle. Father God, please keep giving Father Pavone strength for the battle. Remind him that he is not alone!

Father Pavone, keep fighting the good fight. God will reward you.

I also pray for women in a crisis pregnancy (I've been there myself). Lord, lead them to someone who will share Your love with them...

[angelface713]

Amen to that. God Bless.

[covakid]

I have been seeing videso on the bloody Dolphin Massacres in Japan and how people are trying to get videos of this to expose the truth, what a message this shows, just as in partial birth abortions.

[bluesbros1]

Keep up the good work Father!

[SecretOfFatima]

Guys you should all check out a MP3 podcast found at biblechristiansociety dot com called "was hitler right?" is probably one of the best arguments I seen to demonstrate to someone that abortion and euthanasia are wrong, download and listen to it you wont regret it.

[justalayman]

This is brilliant! I will remember this analysis and use it at the right time.

[covakid]

Hi Fr. Frank -- keep up the great work on sharing life messages on you tube.

[HarvBand]

excellent illustration