bill . w

[3bostonbob]

Maybe those AA's were right after .all

[crunkdog17]

Thank you for posting a beautiful talk by the founder of AA

[TheCharity9]

If he had been granted a rebirth by God, He would not have excluded the name of Jesus.No man can be reborn without the shed blood of Jesus Christ over their lives. He's lying!!!! Everyone wants freedom without the Son, but without Him you have no real Power to overcome addiction/strongholds.

[tangonista]

@TheCharity9 Jesus is not necessary for getting or staying sober, nor is Jesus needed to find God or religion or anything else. If Christianity is your religion, good for you, but leave others to their own beliefs.

[TheCharity9]

@tangonista Okay, you could be right about the abstinence piece, but he's speaking of a rebirth, THERE IS NO REBIRTH WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST. and Im not stopping others from their own beliefs. I'm speaking the Truth from God's word..And it will stand after me, you and everyone else is gone from this earth. Period...As long as there are lies that are keeping people bound to legalism and condemnation, I will be speaking the Truth...Have a nice Day

[elzicariomichoacano]

YO TENGO LA CANCION SOLO POR HOY, COMPUESTA POR EL MAESTRO ALBERTO N Y DEDICADA A EL GRUPO DE ALCOHOLICOS ANONIMOS Y A U PROGRAMA DE LOS DOCE PASO QUIEN GUSTE SE LA PASO , PARA QUE LA ESCUCHEN SALUDOS

gggn2000@yahoo.com.mx

[fatdutchman1]

Its really messed up how some people who have not really worked a 12 step program want to sit there and talk shit about. Page 58 says "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has throughly followed our path" , thats not just words in a book , thats a promise! I and several others who I know have stayed sober for Years because of staying on the path and seen what happens when people dont.

[thomasthefirsts]

fantastic. let no one put aa down. it saved my life and continues to do so. where else would you get a gathering of people with no rules and regulations? all you need is a desire NOT to drink alcohol. aa is the one that stopped me drinking alcohol. nothing else ever worked. cheers kevin h from galway ireland.....8 yrs of aa sobriety...

[SoCalGordon]

I am amazed that those who know so little exercise their childish viewpoints on a subject they know absolutely nothing about and pontificate at length about it.

The ONLY people who know anything about A. A. are in A.A. Oh, there are some who sicker than others and could not make it work for them. Now they have a real reason for resentment, they could not stop drinking. Investigation prior to condemnation would evidence the truth for you. Ever heard of Snopes where falsehoods are exposed?

[gullparybadraing]

1 DAY @ A TIME

[rototino]

Its sad to see those who despise and judge AA members who are tying to better the lives of not only themselves but also (as a consequence of doing the program) those of the wider community. I have been sober for 6 yrs," my best day drinking was never as good as my worst day staying sober". I love and am so gateful for the AA program it took me from attempted suicide to a new way of living a life that is beneficial in all aspects of my and other suffers lives.

[DeeDonner]

the mental disorders who refer to AA as a cult are the ones who have/will never follow the steps: the unfortunates, they are..incapable of being honest with themselves.

[DrWGONZALEZ]

Tradition 10?

[mcgregwood7]

I liked AA but the people there try to run your life. They give you "suggestions" and yell at you if you don't follow them. They want you to come an hour before and stay an hour after the meeting. I THINK IT'S EASIER AND MORE EXCITING JUST TO BE A BINGE DRINKER. BINGE DRINKING IS FUN. I stay sober for a 4-5 months then drink every day for two straight months. It's amazing!!!

[robleto56]

a mi ser superior que es dios les doy las grasias por ser alcoholico anonimos por aber encontrado el camino a la felicidad mia y de mi seres que mas quiero sigamos por que esto funciona grasias padrino bill y a todos los que aun asistimos a las juntas de aa por que se siguen salvado vidas y juntado familia,felices 24 horas y que Dios les vendiga ,.... su companero silvio r grupo milagro richmond ca usa

[alantheanylist]

AA a cult ?Get real  do you even know what a real controlling cult is.

[fischiwien]

dear bill, where ever you are, with what you have built, you probably saved my life. thank you!

[mmykiee]

dos 10/20/84 yea thnx njoy luv dis stuff

[LUCIANO12418]

Grasias ! padre santo por permitirme escuchar aBill W ; Grasias nosrevi1! god bless you.

[Richcool79]

HAMMERSLEY1967!!

[Hammerslay1957]

Bill was a saint,God bless AA,,

[BuckNekkid3000]

@Hammerslay1957 Not a saint. Just a drunk who found (most likely with the help of God) a way to sober up (by trying to be helpful and useful to other people)and become happier than ever he was before. That same technique is currently being used and, unfortunately abused, to change hopeless peope to hope filled people. Mostly.

[alcoholichealer]

it's a cult indeed but its my cult and i love it warts and all...just let's be kinder to non-theists and the like,'eh,ducks?

[zooromeo]

well that's a refreshing approach. good for you ;) One of the few sane AA members !

[gonzolito76]

AA work for good of sociaty at, least there are many people who found help in there.

and that's a Big difference for them and for sociaty. this is good, don't be ignorant guys.

[Yoganao]

Trusting virtual strangers, who have no training in counseling, being in a position of sponsoring the desperate & vulnerable, the AA cult is in no way a safe or reliable way to help people.

[intheserooms]

i have friends who were hopeless drunks they went to AA got sober and don't a tend AA meeting anymore and are still sober and have been for many years and are grateful to AA alcohol kills i don't know anyone who has died from AA your comments my stop someone get the help that may save there lives contempt brier to investigation costs lives

[fxdjerry]

AA works for me over 30 years. Rational recovery, Orange Papers are attacking AA ?

Get serious !

I read the Little Book years ago. I was not impressed at all.

You attackers are pissin into the wind and don't really have a leg to stand on.

Insignificant I would say.

[AleksRealSyntek]

Go an drink, just the bottom of your pain could make you understand that We (AA's) decide to be docil and willing stop sufering. I made a lot of mistakes but my sponsor never gave me a wrong advice in 8 years that I have sober.

From Mexico, all the best...

[Yoganao]

The purpose of the CULT of A.A., is to recruit more gullible sheep in order to HERD said gullible sheep into the Cult. One of the biggest issues with AA is that the people actually think they are "special" cause they are addicted. The environment is a breeding ground for those with the victim mentality.

[Yoganao]

Quitting is difficult & I don't want to quit one day at a time for the rest of my life. I strongly urge anyone who wants to quit drinking to avoid AA at all costs. Try something that doesn't keep you in perpetual recovery such as Rational Recovery, or SMART.

[dmtsymphony]

When I attend meetings, I see a lot of happy, sane people. Sure we put a dollar in the basket to pay the rent for the meeting. Big deal. Hardly a "scam" - I know for myself, that I was never able to stay clean and sober until I found the program of AA, and far from turning me into a "robot cult member" it turned me into the person I always knew I wanted to be. A loving, caring, compassionate human being. A work in progress. The 12 steps are about building character - nothing wrong with that.

[LotuSymmetry]

@dmtsymphony I love you yt name!!!!!! Im a member of the rooms in NYC. Totally agree with your comment. Also, how can it be a scam? If you go to the business meetings you know how every cent is spent from the treasurer's report. so silly!

[waketheoblivious]

@dmtsymphony

Recovering Alcoholics state the simple Truth with a remarkable ability to sort through confusion and point out the obvious. Clarity is a gift of the Holy Spirit and the gift you freely share is truly remarkable. Blessings to you and yours.

[dmtsymphony]

SO weird to see people bashing AA, which has literally saved the lives of countless people I know personally. Non addicts simply have no clue what it is like to struggle with addiction. And there is so much fear in the comments that bash AA. Its ok - people in AA know that love and service are the keys to recover - they will react and respond to your ignorance with compassion. As it says in the book - if someone can drink like a normal person, our hats are off to them.

[spacestate]

AA is the trash receptacle for human refuse, where else are these drunken spousal abusers going to go with other like minded assholes?

AA is full of the most unhappy, miserable people you're ever likely to meet, if you want to get sober why would you want to hang out with a bunch of losers white knuckling it in the cult of AA?

[nosrevi1]

cause we are loser until we try aa to stay sober ODAT

[carloflo]

@spacestate Me has descrito correctamente, y gracias a que había lugares para gente como yo es que hoy trato de ser una persona ejemplar y sobria. Gracias a la sociedad por permitir que existan este tipo de confraternidades de 12 pasos. Clean date Dec 26 1986. Carlos

[spacestate]

The radical right wing Oxford group came up with the steps, there were 10, Bill W. used some double and repeated a couple of the steps by rewording them in order to make them 12. Because Bill W. was into the occult he believed there was some meaning in the number 12.

[AAPetofile]

3. I was so insane that a decided to turn my will and my life over to a deity, or my toaster, or the wind. Other times a let a group of strangers with serious mental health issues be my "higher power" 4. I engaged in a program of self hate. I basically beat myself up and read a stupid book which did so as well. It told me what a selfish evil person I was, and did so to brainwash myself so that I could accept the mind control of a cult. I was setting myself up to be mentally useless.

[fucummings]

And you got a straight forward answer!

Sorry bud, you are not my sponsor! This is not a forum where you keep quizzing and quizzing me, and then try to fit my answers into your AA mentality. Time for you to answer: Are you a drunk, a.k.a. Alcoholic, or wino? Do you go to meetings regularly and have gone for in excess of thirty years because you are "one drink away" from a relapse into the gutter?

Time to open your kimono now And as you said, "tell the truth, it won't kill you"!

[fucummings]

A.A. tells you to "Think, Think, Think", but later it's "Stop Your Stinkin' Thinkin'."

[fucummings]

First, A.A. tells you that "A.A. requires no beliefs," but then you have to believe everything they tell you, and have blind faith in the proclamations of Bill Wilson.

First, prospective new members are offered a tolerant, open-minded "spiritual" program, but then they get narrow-minded demands for belief in Bill Wilson's teachings.

[fucummings]

First, you can keep your own religion, and then you can't.

[fucummings]

First it's "Surrender to God" and then it's "surrender to some A.A. members".

First, it's "any God as you understand Him", and then it's "You don't understand God. You are 'confused' and 'prejudiced'."

First, declarations of Religious Freedom, and then demands for Religious Conformity.

First, a loosely-defined "Higher Power", and then an explicitly-defined "God". Redefine God. First you get one God, then you get a different God.

[tumescent345]

Commoncummings, you're a riot! Why don't you just cut and paste the Orange Papers. You're like a parrott who repeats what they hear without understanding a word of it. Do you REALLY think Terrance Hodgkins speaks the truth? It's propaganda Cummings, and you just swallow it without hesitation or investigation. I guess next, you'll move on to "Powerless". That's the next chapter in Orange Papers. More propaganda, and Hodgkins has it completely wrong, but you'll buy right into it anyway, wont' you.

[fucummings]

this is hilarious. a man who has given his will and life over to an unseen higher power, who has attended meetings for thirty years to sober up, who quotes the book of aa written by bill wilson as though it were gospel, who belongs to a religious cult which says "your best thinking got you here, fake ti till you make it, your own stinkin thinkin, is accusing someone else of parroting and not thinking? did your higher power tell you to do that or was it an order from your sponsor?

[tumescent345]

Common sense - that's funny. I first came to AA in March 1967, and finally stopped drinking on Sept. 10, 1969 and I've been sober ever since - thanks to AA. See, I'm one of the ones who left in the first year.

Cummings, I want to ask you a question. Will you give me an honest answer? I would like to know - "are you an alcoholic?"

[fucummings]

1 you have posted that you have been attending alcoholics anonymous for over thirty years and are still an alcoholic!

2. the rest of us (haters as you call us) are no longer alcoholics. we are all sober people, who do not need to denigrate ourselves (i believe you called people "druggie" you may call yourself an alcoholic, a drunk, a wino, a bowry bum, all you like. those of us who have recovered, are not alcoholics anymore. you may continue to wallow in your self-imposed lifelong sentence.

[tumescent345]

I didn't really expect a straightforward answer, but let me put it this way: Before you were a sober, recovered person, were you an alcoholic? Just tell the truth - it won't kill ya.

[Commonsense11111]

It's all a big bait-and-switch con game. There are so many bait-and-switch stunts pulled in Alcoholics Anonymous that it borders on amazing:

Shifting objectives: First the goal is to quit drinking, and then the goal is to "acquire faith" and "come to believe" in Bill Wilson's religion.

First, A.A. is just a nice neighborhood quit-drinking self-help group, and then it's a hard-core religion.

[Commonsense11111]

First, it's only a "spiritual" alcoholism recovery program, and then it's a fundamentalist religion whose 'real purpose' is to make you 'serve God'.

First, they will tell you that you can "Take what you want, and leave the rest." Then they will tell you that you can't ever leave.

First, they will tell you that you can "Take what you want, and leave the rest." Then they will tell you that you must follow the formula exactly, or else it won't work.

[Commonsense11111]

First, they will tell you that you can do it your way. Then they will tell you that you must do it their way.

First, they will tell you to see a doctor, and say that "we know only a little", but then it's "We know more than doctors", "We are the experts on addictions", and "Don't take medications."

First, they will tell you that the Twelve Steps are only suggested as a program of recovery, but then you hear the slogan "Work The Steps Or Die".

[Commonsense11111]

First, Bill Wilson declared that Alcoholics Anonymous was only one of many ways to achieve sobriety, then he declared that it was The Only Way.

First, God loves you, and then He doesn't.

First, God loves you unconditionally, and then God won't save you unless you 'work a strong program'.

First, they tell you that Alcoholics Anonymous is a program of "rigorous honesty", and then it's gross dishonesty: "Fake It Until You Make It" and "Act As If" and "Don't tell the newcomers..."

[lighwave]

The cult of AA is for losers.

[lighwave]

The AA Religion hasn't 'Saved' anyone, though it has made a ton of money through any treatment center that uses AA indoctrination. AA still has a 98% failure rate for it's all purpose snake oil load of crap, it was NEVER designed to work it started & continues as a religious cult.

[lighwave]

Bill w. hated alcoholics & he himself was an alcoholic, the whole AA cult is designed to clone Bill W.'s personality. This is why the religious cult of AA is so hateful, it tries to clone it's members into the personality of the dead cult leader - depressive personality of Bill W.

[Commonsense11111]

Every time you get cravings for alcohol go to Baskin Robbins and eat ice cream instead This program does not and can not ever fail, if you give yourself to this simple program. Rarely have we seen somebody fail this simple program, except for a few people who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with their ice cream. There are such unfortunates among us. They seem to have been born that way. So Keep Coming Back! to Baskin Robbins. It Works If You Work It! You Die If You Don't!

[tumescent345]

Cummings, you have absolutely no idea what any of this stuff means. Begin with " alcohol-abusing workers" and "alcoholics limited choices". Do you realize that the 2 descriptions are completely contradictory? Nope, you don't. Peele is a nut-job. In the world of recovery professionals he is regarded as an eccentric trouble-maker. In academia he has been unable to find employment due to his abrasive manners and peculiar views. His only audience is people like you.

[fucummings]

tumescent, commonsense posted that, not me. I read his post about the limited choices in AA. (actually they give the choice to give your life to the group or die!) I would be happy to explain the parts to you that you don't understand, just ask.

I am sure that commonsense would explain it to you too, if you asked him nicely.

btw, dr. peale is well regarded in the scientific community, but less so in the religious community of AA

[Commonsense11111]

what an evil man he was. what a horrible cult leader he was. He is responsible for many more deaths than Jim Jones

[massiveofthebrother]

What a journey I'm on, 30 years of being powerless over alcohol and that my life had become unmanageable. But today is different today I have the choice. Thank God for AA it has saved my life and open new doors beyond my wildest dreams and that is the truth. The bringing together of Bill and Bob is unique in every way and if it wasn't for them I will be dead. It is simple as that.

[gerry20009]

I completly agree with you, thank God there´s AA and NA, just for winners. The one who can´t stop drinking with AA really doesn´t want to stop.

[Commonsense11111]

not accurate at all. check the Harvard study. people who quit without aa do better than those who attend.

[NickerSkids]

I am on your side CS ,however i do not believe the Harvard report on this "fact".

Can Harvard be questioned?

12th sober christmas in AA and not one step or sponser in sight.

[Commonsense11111]

I am happy that you have done well without th detrimental sponsors or ridiculous steps.

[NickerSkids]

aa helped me ...... i go once a week now,i don't pray or believe in god.i just love the company.

The anger & hatred by the anti-aa mob is truly staggering. I wish i had met you lot before i went into AA. I wonder where i would be now lol. 12 years sober ,thanks for my brainwashing Bill.

[Commonsense11111]

what you call an "angry hating anti aa mob" it a group of loving people who have gotten sober in spite of the abuse that we received in AA. when we post our experiences on the web, we are met with true hate speech, and are verbally abused and ridiculed in the same manner that we were treated in aa.

who would an observer consider to be the real mob.

[lighwave]

Bill was very delusional & Thought he was god, but he was actually a manic depressive who spent over ten years bed ridden due to his extreme depression, it was during those years that he wrote the 12 by 12 which itself is extremely depressing. Now you know why, and why it should be avoided for the sake of your own mental health. Its a book thatll make you want to drink. Bill W. loved to create alcoholics, misery loves company.

[gerry20009]

bullshit!, Bill, Bob and a Priest wrote the 12 steps and traditions books, he was depressive but not as u say, and he was so sick that you´ll never understand how he lived so long, and you wouldn´t ever stand his disease for a minute without thinking of suicide, if you still drink is cause of ur damn menthal disease, not Bill´s fault (stupid), so dont write shit and show us how ignorant and sick u´re. They saved my life and a lot more motherfucker not as well yours. pity

[camryn89]

I believe it was Bill and a medical doctor that came up with the 12 steps.

[gerry20009]

I dont like insane discussions as above amm youve gotta believe in yourself and AA 12steps that´s all, not God or AA members as gods thats insane get away from them you´ll built your group with your own philosophy always with 12 steps, and it was Bill and a PHD and in spiritual basics BOB and 2 Preiests friends of him one catholic one Prtotestant, thats the subliminal way of AA (that I thank) I needed a spiritual guide without a 10 commandments I remember God dissapointed us before AA

[gerry20009]

Ive read a lot of AA Bill and Bob I know their lifes and their women religious support gave them when crisis, thanks to those two women who took them to church and have chats with priests their lived a lot of years more, they wouldnt made the 12 steps book without them or the 12 traditions evidentialy religious but lot of AA "sobers" needs it as a religion just for today in some way, Myself I needed it in crisis I was AA nw after 10 yrs rehab I can drink socially in 25 alcohol years

[lighwave]

Bill W's rules for sobriety were for OTHERS to follow, but for the cult leader Bill W.

[FederalUnionRules]

$500.00 TO SPONSOR NEWCOMERS

[FederalUnionRules]

BILL IS GOD

[lighwave]

The AA Religion hasn't 'Saved' anyone, though it has made a ton of money through any treatment center that uses AA indoctrination. AA still has a 98% failure rate for it's all purpose snake oil load of crap.

[S0RDIDTRUTH]

How does AA make the money?

[gerry20009]

AA don´t "make" money, AA is not a business, AA is not a Corp.

[guiltymlud]

A.A.has saved many thosands of lives.Can't be a bad thing that.

[LeanaJoH76]

True. I never saw it as a cult, but there are some people who take it way beyond trying to stay sober.

I used to go only to try to stay sober and talk to other people who are tryig too also. I only went 2-3 times a week. I enjoyed it. Better tha sitting at a bar and getting drunk, that's for sure.

[fatdutchman1]

cult: look up acult in the websters, I guess there are alot of acults in this country. Good and bad. Ive been involved in A.A. for over 8 years now and my life has gotten nothing but better with no compound or cool aid

[Commonsense11111]

Look at the criteria for a cult aa meets almost all of it1. The Guru is always right. 2. You are always wrong. 3. No Exit. 4. No Graduates. 5. Cult-speak. 6. Group-think, Suppression of Dissent, and Enforced Conformity in Thinking 7. Irrationality. 8. Suspension of disbelief. 9. Denigration of competing sects, cults, religions... 10. Personal attacks on critics. 11. Insistence that the cult is THE ONLY WAY. 12. The cult and its members are special.

[gerry20009]

youre wright on these points but they have twisted AA spirit, It became fanatism, but youve got to fanatize a little to get your goal, you have to be good politician in AA, I had to leave the group after a lot of humilliations and problems, but how much did I caused that?, Jesus standed a lot, so for just a few months of that shit I got sober and a lot of knowledgment. I´d like to know Harvard study but I think you gotta have a true spirit to stop drunk, that only AA gives.

[Commonsense11111]

The authors concluded:

The failure of both Alcoholics Anonymous and the alcoholism clinic to produce fewer recidivists than did no treatment at all ought to be of great concern

[Commonsense11111]

Peele also wrote:

The two randomized studies in which AA treatment was assigned found AA to yield worse outcomes than other forms of treatment -- or no treatment at all.

[Commonsense11111]

("A randomized trial of treatment options for alcohol-abusing workers", The New England Journal of Medicine, allowed alcoholics limited choices, and those who chose AA still did worst (about as bad as those assigned to AA).

AA's role in society -- more negative than positive?

There, the success rate of A.A. was again negative -- worse than zero. A.A. was hurting people by making it harder for them to quit and stay sober. Those patients who got no A.A. "treatment" at all were better off.

[Commonsense11111]

, A.A. is a mind-controlling religious cult with some very strange theology and misinformation. It features intense indoctrination bordering on brainwashing, misinformation and deceit, deep immersion (90 meetings in 90 days), ego-destruction through self-criticism and confession sessions, thought-stopping clichés and self-contempt, suppression of feelings pretending to get positive results ("Fake It Until You Make It"), and confessions of powerlessness, It has even driven people to suicide.

[777emu]

he smells like an ashtray,,,,,he sounds like an ashtray....

WACO!!!! CHILDREN OF GOD!!!! RUN!!!!

[lighwave]

Bill W and Dr. Bob, just a couple of oldtime compulsive cult peddlers.

[fucummings]

I could not agree more. They preyed on the weak, at a difficult time in their lives.  Modern day drunks have followed them, changing their addiction o alcohol for an addiction to a cult and to abusing newcomers.

[Basisforstace]

God Bless Bill W and Dr. Bob

[mikeinvanco99]

Dawgluv if you dont understand what its like to have cravings or urges that cool for you. Why do you try to knock a program that dose work when done right and saves lives and keeps little kids out of the grills of some moving cars. If this gives you an issue WORK A STEP ON IT!!!!!!!!!!

[igrowdro1badmf]

thanks bill w for the path you made for the NA way of life i live and the 12 steps

[DawgLuv]

Get a friend, talk to him about your problems - Bill was a welch!! Cheated on his wife, made money off of people's problems, etc... By society's standards, he WAS a loser and couldn't accept it, so he made excuses by forming AA!!!

[oseman71]

omg!! u really have no idea what ur talking about... true AA is world´s ONLY non profit working organization that have saved maybe thousands alives and families etc.. so dont write things that u have no idea!

[DawgLuv]

Why is it that Bill W. sounds drunk every time I hear him?????? Take responsibility folks - it IS your own fault you drink!!! If it causes problems, DON'T DO IT!!!!!

[GOOFYWOOFYDOOFY]

yes we drunks are losers and vile and evil and full of shizzle. we drink and blame you

[BeepathSkyclad]

Now, why would you accuse someone of being a left-wing hypocrite for challenging a right wing organization? Yes, the Oxford group that exists even today is very prim and conservative. That doesn't mean the rest of us have to be that way to adhere to their suggestions of living sober. Bil W. was very liberal, that alone has saved a lot of lives. Uptight cons are miserable in their judgements and deserve understanding. All we have in common is our alcoholism, nothing else matters.

[psycomx]

god bless you bill w. Americo H. from mexico.

[BeepathSkyclad]

Good job, Bill, wherever you are. Will put this in my favorites to send on to other people who understand what he's saying. I'm sure he knew about all the accusations but he kept going. I didn't have the spiritual experience that Bill did, mine was that "moment of incomprehensible demoralization." Truly, the AA program is not for those who need it but for those who want it. I was willing to go to any length to have it, used what I needed and left the rest, especially the sexism and misogyny..

[chainzaw367]

Thank for posting ! pass it on !!!!!

[farquharroryiverson]

the oxford group might be a right wing organization, but if it were not for them I would not have my sobriety and I would perhaps be dead. Bill W got what he needed and left the rest. I think you must be a left wing hypocrite and I suggest you go check your facts. Perhaps me and some of my AA friends could offer you some help. you will find a meeting in your home town. This is to deliciousmorton if you come back to see us again.