Okay, as a Christian, seeing how the agricultural system affects the world, I've chosen to be a vegan, because I want to live in such a way that God is honored in all that I do, including the way I eat. And it doesn't honor Him to eat in ways that destroy the planet and cause both human and animal suffering.
I'm a meat-eater and I view vegans who don't judge others on their diets as ordinary people. I see vegans who do judge others solely on their diets as fruitcakes.
Thank you for your video. I have recently turned vegan and I feel so much better for it. Looking around on You Tube I really dislike the whole them and us attitude between meat eaters and non-meat eaters. We are all in this together. Vegans don't `hate' meat eaters. I ate meat for years. But I never felt vegetarians were pushing their views onto me. They had an opinion and I had an opinion. Which we are both entitled to. I must say, after going vegan I feel so full of energy & look healthier.
Humans are omnivores. One of the biggest jumps in our personal evolution, was the incorporation of meat into our diet. It's a calorie rich, fatty substance, that has all the essential amino acids that humans need. And on the ethical issue of meat-eating; domesticated fauna such as cows and pigs are extraordinarily successful as species because humans have bred them for our use. The complete rejection of meat in our diet would inadvertantly result in the deaths of billions of these fauna.
@DeplorableBigot Domesticated cows and chickens are so dependent on humans for survival, and require such massive resources to maintain their numbers, that they mostly likely be terminated in excessive numbers. Factory farming does enact a massive strain on local environments. But that is because humans in general enact massive strain on their environment around them. Even if we swapped to an all vegan diet, our industrialized society would still be a detriment to the environment.
@DeplorableBigot You need to go away, think a fuck of a lot harder about all these things you've just written, do some reading, watch some videos, a bit of research and whatnot. I'm talking diet essentials, evolution, ethics, supply-and-demand, the full whack.
@openheartzoo I think a fucking ton thank you very much. I happen to be majoring in endocrinology. And I find it fascinating that you are so dismissive because I came to a different conclusion than you did, You are the one who initiating the claims that practicing veganism represents a degree of ethical and moral superiority over practicing a non-vegan diet. I am objecting to the premise you have put forth.
I am saying that I answer this argument too often. People present these things to me like I haven't been over and over and over it, again and again and again. You could find my response in the comments section in a heartbeat, or do some of your own reading on google, easy.
@DeplorableBigot pigs and cows could be phased out, no longer bred for existence, it's not fair to bring a creature into existence in order to mistreat that being. if you can choose the path of minimal suffering this is the more ethical choice. we no longer need to eat meat as we have now left the forest and have technology, we have entered a different phase of evolution.
The other day vegans torched 14 trucks at Harris Ranch in California. Such arson attacks are supposed to make the world turn vegan. Fat chance. And tell me you are not terrorists. To me you vegans are no different from the Real IRA, Al Qaida, the Lord's Resistance Army and others who try to force their beliefs on the world at large.
@Albacorewing And believing that a tiny minority of violent vegans represent all vegans is about as ignorant as believing that Al Qaeda represent Islam or that WBC represent Christianity or that David Cameron represents Britons or that Sarkozy represents the French. On the other hand, do you actually value trucks more than animals? It's a ridiculous act of destruction to torch trucks, but cmon. It's a truck.
@openheartzoo A lot of truckers sleep in trucks. Someone could easily have been killed. Sooner or later vegans will go too far, and there will be a sea change as to how the public sees them. Mark my words. Keep your beliefs to yourselves, and keep out of other's business, I suggest.
@Albacorewing My beliefs concern compassion. I believe in compassion. I believe in limitless compassion, for all beings, human or nonhuman. I belief in putting absolutely no constraints on the amount of compassion I feel and show for all sentient beings. That is why I'm vegan, that is my belief. I will not keep this to myself.
@openheartzoo Then why the arson? If that is what you people think, why do you people think that arson is the way? Don't you realize that such tactics will never work? You are going right down the same road that the abortion clinic bombers took, and you will get the same results.
@Albacorewing I agree with the wonderful girl who made the video. You cant make sweeping generalisations like that. As well as being vegan, I've been an anti-death penalty activist for years and have not come across one single vegan on death row- so am I to say "you meat eaters are always killing people" ?
@endthedeathpenalty@danrmaz sorry folks, actually blocked albacorewing 'cause i smelt a wee troll in the works. tend to deliver a swift blocking if someone seems like they're being deliberately, repeatedly stupid. but thanks for the support!
@Albacorewing Nothing wrong with a bit of direct action! Property does not have feelings! And all those poor people that had to replace the trucks or even being fired form the jobs as a result of the possible cut-backs as a result of this direct action, well boohoo so effing what?!?! Change the occupation! That was the whole point of the action was to sabotage and maim somewhat the company in question.
JUST ASK THOSE TOMATOES POTATOES AND RADISHES YOU EAT HOW THEY FEEL AS YOU END THIER LIVES IN THERE PRESENT FORM..... BUT SOME FANCY THEMSELVES HIGHTER ON THE KARMIC LADDER ????YET WE ALL ONE DAY BECOME FOOD TO ONE ANOTHER AND THE WORMS IN ONE WAY SHAPE OR FORM SO I SAY .............HO MITAKUYE OYASIN ......CrazyHeart
Advice on speaking compassionately-- Be aware of your phrasing.
Ex: Saying "I can't eat cheese" sounds forced. Say "I choose not to eat cheese" or "I do not eat cheese" which reflect more of the compassion involved in the choice.
Ex: Saying "I do not eat pig" implies that a pig is an object rather than a living being. Say "I do not eat pigs" as this phrase gives life to the word that some children even notice. - gary yourofsky
You know what really sucks? Being Vegan and Christain lol. I hate arguing so much. I just like what I like. Sucks you don't like it but don't get mad or offended if I'm not the same as you.
Just a note of support to you. I am 58 yrs old and have been vegan and an activist for 5 years. I admire young people such as yourself who "get it" so young. I am somewhat ashamed that it took me so long, but once I saw Earthlings I went vegan overnight. Yes it is difficult navigating through this carnistic world. Anyway, just a warm hello from a fellow vegan.
People who treat you bad for your positive lifestyle are the terrorists and such low self esteem to be mean to try to embarass such a nice person, instead of thank you for caring!
Oh Vegans, I Love you, Going Vegan was the decision I made, I have so many lovely friends who think compassionately, you seem lovely, which is not a suprise because VEGANS ARE LOVELY.
I'm just gonna be honest with you here. I don't believe that anyone has ever called you a terrorist for being a vegan. I'll of course believe you if you say that people make fun of you or insult you, but I think the terrorism thing is a blatant lie you're telling to heroize yourself. I have vegan friends and they've never been called terrorists.
@hayesism It's not for you to tell strangers on the internet what they have or have not heard said about themselves, nor should you use your own/your friend's experiences to presuppose other's experiences. It takes quite a gigantic slice of audacity to invalidate a stranger's experience by calling them a blatant liar. You, my friend, are a blatant foooooooool.
@openheartzoo I can't invalidate your experience, nor would I try. I can only question your integrity. (It takes a giant slice of audacity to deny a stranger the right to scepticism.) I was just letting you know that I find that particular part of what you said VERY difficult to swallow (so to speak) because none of my vegan friends have ever been called a terrorist, fascist or Nazi on the basis of their diet. I think most who see this video will feel the same so I thought I should inform you.
@hayesism Potentially, you're from a different part of the world where the word "terrorist" weighs heavier and people are less likely to throw it around as an insult.
@hayesism I'm vegan. I've been called a terrorist. I also get treated like one by police with photographs and them greeting me by name.
Note: I have no criminal record.
Seriously, don't tell people you don't know what they have or have not experienced. Terrorism is precisely NOT what we are about. We are about saving lives, not taking them.
@lingocode "Terrorism is precisely NOT what we are about." My point exactly. Nobody thinks veganism is about terrorism, which is why the idea of anyone calling one a terrorist is ridiculous.
Your story is even less credible, though I'm unclear of the context. Are you saying that even though you have no criminal record, police have found out your name, targeted you, surveilled you, and treated you like a terrorist just because you're vegan? Please.
@hayesism Because of going on particular protests against vivisection, yes. Not the diet alone, but standing by principles the same way religious folk object to abortion clinics or gay folk object to homophobic advertising.
You may not view us as terrorists or extremists (thanks!), but sadly many are not so enlightened.
@lingocode EXACTLY!! Because of your activism, not because of your veganism. Not that I agree with them, but its a word that's thrown around a lot at protests and you must surely recognise that it had nothing to do with your diet. Not all vegans protest vivisection, not all vivisection protesters are vegan, and police wouldn't pull up medical records to find out which protesters to call terrorists. I can assure you that NOBODY, not even unenlightened bigots, associates veganism with terrorism.
@hayesism Yeah, but I have also been called "extremist" very, very frequently for my diet. I think it is extreme to eat dead things when it makes them ill and harms the planet. Same as it is extreme to drink toxins then sleep with people and forget about it. Common behaviours can be "extreme", and unusual behaviours can be "normal". I have been called a terrorist for my diet, too, but granted not very often.
@hayesism You're talking shit yourself by utterly denying other people's experiences, just because you don't personally believe it. It's like you took derailing for dummies as gospel, it's laughable and contributes NOTHING.
you need to stop being stupid and take your life in your own hands and get some backbone! join the revolution! it's a dog eat dog world! ( come up with an argument) stop being a stupid cunt! shut up and do something!!!!
we peace makers need to create a world of our own, leave all the animal/human killers alone in their world with all their bloodshed and pollution.and bring our own peaceful world into existence
@Creativesuns4ever some nice idealism, but it would mean leaving a lot of innocent beings in the hands of those killers. even murderers are themselves suffering immeasurably.
@spoonie500 YET more bullsh*t about that? How in hell does it POSSIBLY justify your eating meat?? And if we don't eat plants, what are we supposed to eat? PLANTS ARE HERE TO BE EATEN. CARNIVORES EAT ANIMALS. OMNIVORES EAT PLANTS AND ANIMALS. HERBIVORES EAT PLANTS.
veganism is met with such resistance because people don't want to stop and think about their diet that's killing them, the destruction of billions of other creatures for their hunger, and the prospect of giving up some of life's more trivial pleasures.
Sorry, eating meat IS natural. The proof is the fact that your body will digest meat if it's eaten. We could go back and forth on the quality or morality of this decision, but the fact still remains that eating meat is a perfectly natural function of humans.
Veganism is a learned behavior. Eating meat is instinct.
@tantoi10man The human body can digest SOME cooked, prepared parts of other animals, fine. Who cares. We don't have to do, we don't have to cause suffering.
But next time you're in a field of antelope and feel the INSTINCT to down that shit and kill them right in the neck with just your physical body, please take a video, because I'd love to see you prove dem molars. Dunno about you, but I don't let my "instincts" control my morals, and I don't salivate at a herd of cows.
@openheartzoo Humans can digest raw fish (Sushi anyone?)
Humans don't use teeth to hunt or gather, we use hands. Hands are capable of gathering fruits, and crafting tools to aquire protein (i.e. meat). Hands are something that developes for a generalized feeder.
@tantoi10man hang on 'til i snooze after reading this tired argument which, while very anthropological and underthought, is utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of things. we could debate this until we've evolved ten hands and guns for teeth and it still wouldn't be necessary to violently torture and kill to eat. if missing the point is what you're about, go work on a factory farm and try arguing this naturalistic view from there.
@crypticspoon93 hear, hear. i could digest some soil and even get some vitamin b12 from it, but i'm not gonna. and why not? because CAN will nevaaarrr evaaarrr mean SHOULD.
@tantoi10man All diets are learned behavior from the parents. Consuming energy is what is instinct. There is energy in both plants and animals. Therefore a starving human will eat whichever is the only available source. However we all know a baby human will eat the apple before it eats the bunny rabbit anyway. Plants dont put up nearly as much of a fight as large animals with claws and teeth that run, kick and scream. So its just smarter in an instinctual way to hunt the apple.
@CantWeedThis But we all know a baby will eat milk before he/she eats an apple. A babies first and primary diet consists almost entirely of animal product.
@tantoi10man Youre calling your mom an animal? Why dont you ask mom if you can suck her teets instead of bothering the cows. Or grow up. Do you still wear diapers?
@CantWeedThis Yes, humans are animals too. However, it has been show that human benefit from milk consumption long after the infancy stage, cows milk being among the most nutritious. In the future, please refrain from ad Hominum, let keep this debate civil.
@tantoi10man What do humans benefit from in cows milk? The nutrients, like Vitamin D? The stuff that can be found all throughout the plant kingdom. What about the stuff in cheese that is bad, like saturated fat? What about the cows that are in a cage and treated worse than prisoners their whole life? What about that part? Even if you want to argue organic cows kept in a fenced off grass field. Farmed animals have the live of a prisoner in the outdoor section of the penitentiary.
@CantWeedThis Humans need calcium in order to grow strong bones, milk cow milk has some of the highest concentrations of calcium of any resource. In reality, if dairy cows don't get milked nearly every day (something their young no longer dose at one point), their utters get swollen and will get infected, so actually, NOT consuming cow milk causes animal suffering.
@tantoi10man Humans are the only animals who continue to drink milk past infanthood. We are the only animals who drink milk from another species. We are the only animals who use a machine to extract the milk from the other species. In order to have milk, cows must be cyclically impregnated, their calves are taken from them as soon as born and chopped up for veal.
So unless you're off to give some udders a good sucking for yer breakfast, I'd suggest keeping half-truths to yourself.
@openheartzoo We are also the only species that makes computers and penicillin. It's called innovation. We drink milk past "infanthood" (*infancy) and from other species because we are the only species to have developed agriculture. Unless you are hunter-gatherer (without the hunting, of course), you too depend on agriculture to eat. Your point is invalid.
Humans are the only species to eat tofu and drink soy milk. Does that make these things wrong?
@hayesism Two different users arguing from two different levels. I wouldn't use the "nature" aspect except in retaliation to someone who argues that drinking milk is "natural" - I agree with you, we've evolved and innovation is wonderful. However, we've evolved so much that we now have the capacity to get everything we need without harming any animals at all. "Agriculture" isn't inherently bad - it doesn't have to involve hurting animals. Causing suffering is what is wrong.
@openheartzoo No, many animals drink cow milk long after maturity. A good example is coyotes, they will actually eat milk out of calf feces. Many creatures in nature already know that cows milk is extremely nutritious. So that assertion is simply wrong. And my assertion is still correct, a dairy cow will suffer if they are not milked everyday. Also, dairy cows are raised to produce dairy, veal comes from different cows. I'd suggest keeping blatant disinformation to yourself.
Your interests and favourite videos do not indicate a person who is, yknow, really very very very interested in the rights and equality and not objectifying others... from the way you obviously perceive women, it follows that you wouldn't be too interested in the rights of animals and instead prioritise your own desire to objectify. Maybe you should read a book called "The Sexual Politics of Meat"
i eat meat but i am not against most ideas of veganism, i am totally against capitalism and mass production of meat and the torture it brings to animals which they do not deserve, i believe that if i kill it or find it dead(still fresh) i can eat it and there is nothing wrong with that because it is something normal in nature as animals eat each other and i am sure that what im eating does not have injected hormones and antibiotics which are harmful to my health, i say boycott the meat industry
@DanteWhite I will not boycott the meat industry. I enjoy buying meat at my local grocery store. Cook it well and it will kill any bad stuff in the meat from the factory farm.
@lovebigboobs29 good luck removing hormones,anti-biotics, defective cells from abnormal growth of mass produced animals by just cooking the meat. i have never said eating meat is a problem but the way that meat is mass produced is a problem(for health and ethical reasons), these companies dont care about your health they only care for profit. there are scientific studies that show correlations between mass produced meat and cancer, so if u wanna end up with cancer go head eat all the meat u want
@DanteWhite No one in my family has ever had cancer. It doesn't run in the family. We all eat meat. Cancer is mostly genetic. Its not like I can control how the meat is produced. I am not interested in not eating it. They need to change the way factory farms operate atleast with the chemicles. Over-crowded cant really be controlled considering billions of people eat meat.
@lovebigboobs29 your arguments are ridiculous and chock-full of underresearched pseudo-science, go away from my comments section and take your busty lady favourites playlist with you, you serial objectifier. holy smokes.
@JustCallMeAmanda everything you've heard about veganism being unhealthy is a lie! just type "vegan athletes" into google! my only concern regarding your age would be that you might not be in a position to choose everything you eat, you might have to get your parent/guardian on board and that is sometimes difficult.
@openheartzoo she will need protein man, don't say that unless you're a doctor, without protein she will be unhealth, but we have synthetic proteins , some of then are extracted from milk, the whey protein, and this kind of protein is what athletes use, cause have a good and fast absorvetion in our organism, so you don't need to kill animals to that, but proteins you need, and even grease is healthy , they are goof for hormones, sorry for english,Continues...
@openheartzoo continuing, i suport if you want be a vegan, but is very good go to a doctor , so he can guide you to make this the more healthy possible
@openheartzoo Actually its not a lie. It isn't as healthy as a balanced omnivore diet. I have known friends who went vegan and got very ill. Started eating meat again and felt better.
@lovebigboobs29 Detox and balance. When becoming vegan, you may feel odd for a while as your body starts removing all the crap, it's just a matter of adjustment. You then also must watch the balance of what your eating to replenish yourself. If your friends have felt crap, they haven't persisted correctly.
@openheartzoo There's no crap in your body from eating meat. I am sorry but you can be as healthy even healthier eating a balanced diet with meat included. Your body doesn't need detoxing just because you eat normal food. I feel great on an omnivore diet. Just because they felt like as trying to be vegan doesn't mean they did it wrong. It means the diet isn't for everyone.
@lovebigboobs29 You don't know enough about meat, the meat industry and how the human body processes meat. A vegan diet can be adapted to suit any individual. Any huge change in diet is going to make someone feel different until their body adapts to the change. I feel absolutely amazing on a vegan diet, but I'm sure that you believe the feeling-like-as [sic] experience overrides mine. Maybe your friends liked the idea of veganism, but needed a good excuse to remain attached to meat.
@lovebigboobs29 By the way, it's very hard not to write off everything you say immediately on sight of your username and the absolute nick of your favourites list. Lordy.
Everywhere I go people are talking about humane and free-range. Let me ask the people that think about these. Is it right to control and enslave? Is it right to take an innocent life? Is it right to kidnap babies from their mother? Is it right to rape and steal milk from the breast of a lactating mother? Is it right to abuse those that seem weaker than us (bullying)? Is it right to have a monetary value on life? Do to others as you would like done to you! It doesn't just mean people.
I mean in all honesty if you look in the related videos you have one from kimxxxyyy entitled "FIVE Reasons WHY Meat-Eaters Are Retarded!"
People get use to vegs thinking poorly of them and will become defensive based on what they experience. If I said I'm a Christian and I want to talk to you about Homosexuality (assuming I would be able to get to bringing up homosexuality) would you not jump to the conclusion I was about to say it is immoral instead of saying we should support it legally?
@DrKyure I agree with what you're saying. Extremist on either end is bad, protesting is bad and stupid! It's better to show people how not being vegan can affect our own values. Everyone has different values, so as an example I've always loved animals and lived in ignorance about how they were slaughtered. When I found videos, on my own, from the slaughter house (Earthlings) it challenged my value for loving animals and I changed because I didn't want to go against my value.
@BreakingHabits129: I also don't think people should be around people who think exactly the same as you. I know what it is like to talk to someone who feels the same about meatless diets. It's nice, but you are still just agreeing and swapping stories of those you view as dumb.
It would be better to focus on the health problems associated with factory harming (spelling mistake but I found it funny and left it in) to stop factory farming because that is where most of the problems are.
@DrKyure I'm not in some kind of cult, I don't hang out with many vegans because most of the people I know and work with aren't. I understand what you're talking about, but I don't view others as dumb because I know how it was for me before I changed. I was close-minded and I wouldn't subject myself to anything vegan or vegetarian.
@BreakingHabits129: That isn't a cult, that is a group of like minded people. Have you not been to a forum of Christains, Atheists, Omnivores, or vegs where they all are saying, in essence, "we rule, fuck the other side." I know I've done this as I've done it.
Well, I think it's more the "dumb" and extreme ones. Though this can snowball into the group as a whole.
Most people can't get over the fact that I'm fat. Thus I must eat huge amounts of meat at every meal. Though I usually don't.
@DrKyure After I became Vegetarian, it was hard at first, because my conscience was bothering me like that of a smoker or alcoholic trying to quit. When I was hungry my conscience was very bad, but I fought it with the images that reminded me of my values. After awhile I grew stronger and the bad conscience was gone. It made me realize that I had an addiction. Animal products are like drugs and while you're under the influence you shut yourself off from the reality of what's really happening
@BreakingHabits129: You basically did what the videos wanted. Show graphic images to try and get people to stop eating meat because other people have problems with it. Of course, they don't show or mention the problems associated with factory agriculture which can be just as bad. After all, what does it matter if the rain forest is being bulldozed for plants or animals so we can eat them? And a lot of the arguments are one sided. Like the 1:10 ratio. We grow crops in the dessert. -_-
@DrKyure The videos were meant to expose what happens in the industry. I'm sure it shows most of the worst situations, but it was made to raise awareness. How many people think of how meat is made? People live in ignorance thinking it's a completely painless process at the end of an animal's life. This isn't true, because to make the most money they have to kill the animals when they first reach their full size. Otherwise they would feed the animals forever and waste money (it's business).
@BreakingHabits129: What's most shocking are how good the good farms are. Though if you honestly think killing animals for food is immoral, by all meals discontinue eating meat as long as you can do it and be healthy.
Though I must say, I'm sure I could tell you about some of the vegetarian, or even vegan, foods that you eat that you are ignorant of and what goes in them. Lets just say that the laws regarding contamination is lax for all foods.
@DrKyure Agriculture too, it's bad because of the large corporations controlling everything and the meat industry has their hands in agriculture too. They get cheap grains to feed the animals by messing with the market. The animals eat a lot of grains too, it's estimated with our current agriculture we could feed 8 billion people, but much of it goes to the meat and dairy industry. If you buy anything with corn syrup and the many other forms of corn you're supporting factory agriculture.
@BreakingHabits129: They (the industry and corporations selling them) have stock in veg-alternative foods too. It's industry that is bad, not raising animals for food. An industry will try to make as much money as they can, it's cheaper to pay fines to be more humane and of course the workers take out frustrations on the animals, which become PETA videos. The problem lies in the public for a big part of it. While most want animals to be well treated, they don't want to pay 10 times as much.
@DrKyure The best way for Vegans to help people is to learn how to deal with addicts. You can't say their stupid and all this crap. You don't call someone dumb just because they never learned something. We have to be understanding and we can't be pushy. We have to find out what their values are and show that their values are under attack eating meat. Whether it's animal welfare, health, family, money, etc... all of these values are challenged by eating animal products.
@BreakingHabits129: You basically sacrificed to feel normal, as you did before you thought it was wrong.
Enjoying your food doesn't make you addicted. I can nonchalantly eat a meatless or nearly meatless meal and I don't start to shake because of it. People like meat because it tastes good because our bodies are actually aided by it. Plants tend to be low in quality but high in quantity and meat is the opposite.
You also can't do any of that if they view the evidence and choose differently.
@DrKyure To feel normal? I'm a very small minority now, how is that normal? Besides there's so many diets out there, what is normal? I do what makes me happy and healthy.
Of course skipping meat for one meal isn't going to kill you, but I know people that think it will. I didn't realize it was an addiction at first and if you told me this when I was a meat eater I would laugh and say the same things you're saying. Do most addicts realize they have a problem until they try to change?
@BreakingHabits129: I think you misunderstood me. What I meant is that people who give up meat do so in order to feel the same way about food as they did when they ate meat but didn't think of it as immoral. I say this because it is often untrue that vegs feel better about themselves because they don't eat meat, although some obviously have some egos to them.
@BreakingHabits129: It's not really an addiction, it tastes good yes, but that is a biological reaction to eating a substance that, in moderation, is healthy for us to eat.
It's also untrue to say something that someone does that they enjoy means they have an addiction. I like to debate with vegetarians and vegans but I wouldn't call that an addiction. It is entertaining but there is no physical dependence or even psychological dependence.
@BreakingHabits129: Next time an omnivore freaks about not eating meat for one meal (though 50 years ago we are meat perhaps a few times a week) ask them if they have ever had a PBJ with chips and a drink for lunch as a kid. That would be a meatless meal. :D
@DrKyure I'm one of the only people I knew that ate meat without adding anything to it. People were like, "don't you want something on that?" " It can't taste good like that".... Most meats that people love are heavily spiced so it doesn't taste like a dirty dish towel. Meat isn't more nutrient dense, go the the USDA nutrition facts and compare lean grass fed beef with lentils or other legumes. Plants low in quality....now that's funny because even meat eaters know vegies are good for us.
@BreakingHabits129: I would guess that meat (unless its gamy) tastes as different humanly raised and fed natural food as home grown produce is, which is why I'm spoiled and don't want to eat tomatoes and cucumbers on my salad now. :P
I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm saying that plants tend to be nutrient light or have their nutrient protected by cellulose where meat tends to be higher and doesn't have cellulose. But yes, you do need fiber and plants greatly help you, along with meat.
@BreakingHabits129: I've compared before and meat usually has higher fat while veg alternative food has higher salt. I looked two up. Nutrition Facts for a McDonald's Double 1/4 poudner w/ cheese (280 g) and homade baked beans (252 g) Sodium content is close (though this is a really unhealthy buger). More protein (not even bringing it up), higher Vit-A in the burger, twice as much calcium, 2% less Vit-C, and higher iron. Of course fat and cholesterol is WAY high for the burger.
@DrKyure I've never had any high quality meat and I used to eat a lot. We don't need the solid fats, because they aren't good for us. All meats, with the exception of fish, are bad for our circulatory system. Our bodies produce cholesterol and other fats, but we need Omega 3's that we get from plants, nuts, and seeds. The pros outweigh the cons and the legumes are much better than meat.
@BreakingHabits129: Well you also likely lived in western society where we don't tend to have healthy meats that are lean or even the best, organ meats.
No, but you need fat and a good moderation won't hurt you.
All fatty meats, I don't think liver has much fat to it. Loads of iron though. Well, the think about Omega-3's is that they are good for us, can make us smarter, but we don't know how the darn things work.
I showed there is a lot of fat, though I also did a healthy vs fatty example.
@DrKyure I'm not forcing anyone to change, but I know many people in poor health and I will do what I can to help. My mother was obese and had high BP, arthritis, gout, and depression. 6 months ago she became vegetarian and lost weight, arthritis is gone (can walk and exercise now), gout is gone, BP is normal with no expensive medication (that probably caused the gout), and she's as happy and energetic as I've ever seen her. There's only positive side effects to this diet as opposed to meds.
@BreakingHabits129: OK, but you have to understand that eating a poor diet that includes meat is making people unhealthy because it is a poor diet, not because it includes meat.
Though I suppose that excluding all of something may make it easier to not eat it then trying to eat the healthy forms of that something.
Arthritis isn't caused by meat, and again, good diet = good results. I could eat lean meat and more fresh veggies and fruits and loose weight.
@DrKyure Animal welfare is easy to prove, because there's hidden video footage of the slaughter houses like "Earthlings". Health is also fairly simple because even some Dr's and the USDA are saying we need to consume less animal products and "Forks Over Knives" shows the health problems.. High BP, Heart Disease, Diabetes, Cancer, Osteoporosis, Arthritis, and the list goes on. Family is the same as health because if you care about your family you'll care about their health.
@BreakingHabits129: Again though, factory farming is bad and most people know this. But there are also humane farm. Humane farms will shock you more then the bad ones for all they do for their animals.
Oh Forks Over Knives...such so many poor arguments.
Heart disease is about the only thing caused by eating meat diet (in western countries). Vegs get fewer cancers but get Colo-rectal cancer more often. Diabetes, osteoporosis, and arthritis can happen on a veg diet, especially diabetes.
@DrKyure By humane you mean they don't get abused like on Earthlings, but they share the same traumatic fate, to be born and raised to slaughter. They deserve a chance at life just like any of us. Of course in the wild other animals eat them, but we also die young in car wrecks, so does that make it alright to kill people that are old enough to drive just because they could have the same fate driving?
Do you think all the fast food places could operate from humane farms? They're a minority.
@BreakingHabits129: Yes they are still killed. This is why you don't eat meat and why I do. I personally don't have a problem with an animal being killed so I can eat it. I take offense at how they are raised and killed not that they are raised to be killed.
Saying animals do it so its OK is a naturalistic fallacy. You can find rape and anything else you want to find in the animal kingdom. I mean we are the only animal to use technology, but that doesn't make it wrong to do so.
@BreakingHabits129: Well they could, just not as cheaply and on the same scale as they do now. We should decrease the amount of meat we eat and would have to to raise animals humanely.
Anyone who wants to eat meat should pay to have it done right and (can be an or but and would be better) should, at least once, look an animal in the eye as they kill that animal or in some other way know they are directly responsible for the animal's death. (Ah, trying to to just say "it" so that may sound odd).
@DrKyure What arguments were poor? Food Matters, doesn't have any facts or research to back it. It's easy to discredit the people we don't agree with. Look at Nikola Tesla, he was a genius before his time, but people would never listen to him and mock him, so he spent the rest of his life as a recluse. If you like having AC electricity in your home, thank Nikola (Westinghouse funded Tesla). Even the history books discredit Tesla, but the FBI did take all his research when he died. Strange.
@BreakingHabits129: The movie opens with filmmaker Lee Fulkerson — whose stated vices are Red Bulls and soda — going to vegan doctors Matthew Lederman and Alona Pulde to discover that his daily Red Bulls have not contributed to a rosy picture of health. Lederman and Pulde tell him that he is at risk of a heart attack. Time for Fulkerson to give up all animal products and refined foods.
This becomes the bookend for the movie, with the conclusion being that Fulkerson gets his numbers checked after a few months as a Red Bull-free vegan and finds that every single health marker has wildly improved. “Oh my God, I can’t believe it!” he exclaims when he hears how drastically his cholesterol has dropped.
@BreakingHabits129: Look at Lierre Kieth. You know, I find it ironic that Earthlings has the 3 stages of denial be: Ridicule, violent opposition, and acceptance when many times you can see vegans ridiculing, find "violent opposition, and finally acceptance as an ex-vegan. Though the violent opposition usually isn't done from either side, usually ridicule then acceptance of viability.
@DrKyure At least we can agree on Heart Disease and people eat too much meat ;)
Out of the many cancers I'm satisfied to just fight my odds with one instead of many, but I would be interested in seeing this fact!
Exactly, nutrition is important for any diet and many vegs mess up their diet because they're also ignorant and don't care to learn nutrition, but this is the same in any diet. I don't agree with arthritis, because my mom is rid of her arthritis after going veg :)
@BreakingHabits129: Yes that much is true, feel free to throw in Factory Farming is needlessly cruel and that eating meat is an extravagance if you want. The worst thing you can do for your argument is deny there is any drawbacks to it.
Though you can also eat fried veggies and fruits in vegetable oil and have higher heart disease then normal.
Well, the problem with the article I read is that it just says more likely to get it. I mean 99 cancers at 1% or 1 at 99% or is it...
@BreakingHabits129: ....is it 99 at 17% and one at 18%. I honestly don't know. Though the ADA's vegetarian research team said that no clear evidence was found between eating less meat and fewer cancer, but again, its hard to say yes to something where there are so many factors.
Again it could be better diet vs poor diet instead of meat vs no meat. I mean I've gotten stomach aches from full fat chips when I ate baked ones on a diet so I don't put much faith into aches after eating meat again.
@BreakingHabits129: Also the reason why veg diets tend to be healthier is that if you go veg you will tend to watch what you do. You likely have to watch what you eat but you'll also exercise and refrain from drinking heavily and smoking.
Also most of the dirty conditions associated with factory farming is because of the high demand and cheap meat. A lower demand with more pricey meat would be better off for the animals and the consumer.
@DrKyure Many people that go veg get sick or don't stay veg because they don't watch their nutrition. Ignorance is bad any way you look at it. I've always watched what I did because I like to know many things and nutrition is important for anyone. I drink beer and alcohol, because many are vegan, especially the micro-brews. I'm sure most vegs don't smoke, but smoking is also an addiction like meat and vegs have stronger will power to change. Just a theory.... but an interesting thought!
@BreakingHabits129: Which is also an argument as to why they are healthier. You go from eating what ever to having to eat certain things to get all the nutrition you need. Granted some omnivores need to eat better, but they usually don't have to watch what they eat.
Eh, there is physical addiction to alcohol and cigarettes. I only had meat craving when I tried being vegetarian for a while, though I did have a slim jim in my room that I thought I had eaten. I know they are unhealthy but so good.
@DrKyure Death in any quantity is bad for the animals. I'm not a PETA supporter, because they have a bad standard of ethics. They kill animals too! But their reason might be to prevent suffering, because many animals in shelters are sent to labs for testing if they aren't adopted. I don't know if this is PETA's reasoning, but I would always look for a better solution. Especially if it goes against the name of my organization!!!!
If less meat is better, what's wrong with none? Seriously?
@BreakingHabits129: Bad for the individual perhaps, not for the entire species. The problem with the killing argument is that we have to be predators to survive (unless we feed off living animals or plants and become parasites).
I could say that for everything. If less antibiotics is better, whats wrong with none? There can be adverse effects, they are at least claimed, by people who have eaten meat. There are problems with it, but I don't think problems now should mean total abolishment.
@DrKyure Then money, when I was a vegetarian it was expensive because I bought processed foods that were quick and easy to make. But when I became vegan I couldn't eat most of these because they're not vegan. So I bought more foods like dried beans, lentils, rice and all of these are very cheap when compared to meat and lentils are very high in vitamins and protein. There's so many inexpensive vegan foods, but you have to be open minded and think about it if you're on a budget.
@BreakingHabits129: You're still not a vegan...at least if you think you have to eat zero animal products and/or use zero animal products. Just about everything you are touching as you read this was made with or as a result of animal by-products. Glues, crayons, dyes, oils, etc all come from animals. So if you live in western society you CAN NOT be a "true" vegan. Then add the insect eggs, insect parts, rat hairs, other other allowed contaminates to meatless food and you have a big problem.
@DrKyure "Vegan" is a stupid name made up for a vegetarian that doesn't eat any animal products. Vegetarian should be the word, but people want to make up other names for different vegs. I don't eat glues and things, so this doesn't go against my diet. Of course I don't want these things and I try not to buy anything with animal by-products or testing. If there wasn't a meat industry these products would have been made differently. With different ingredients, but they use what's cheap.
@BreakingHabits129: Oh it goes farthing then that. I've had people tell me you can't be a vegan if you use any animal products and that it is a life style, not a diet. I've heart another one on an alkaline ash diet say that he eats "human food" and that if you eat genetically altered by man food you should be classified as a vegetarian because true vegans eat 100% natural foods (like Marijuana).
People get butt-hurt when you try to take away their self-given labels.
@DrKyure Bugs? Really, you seem to be attacking my diet now. I'm sure you've heard that most people eat baby spiders in their sleep? I'm sure I've accidentally ate some bugs when running or riding my bicycle, but it wasn't intentional. There's a difference between accident and doing on purpose! Cows and other herbivores eat tiny creatures by accident, so should we consider them omnivores? It's a ridiculous statement to make. Now you sound like me before I changed, because I ridiculed.
@BreakingHabits129: Yes but that is a myth. The thing about bugs in food is true. This is more to the people who say how dirty meat is (although true) and say you can't be a veg if you eat and/or use any animal products. Though I knowingly eat peanut butter and noodles so, eh, what can ya do?
I think of it more as poking fun. Though it is something to think about. Food is not as regulated as people think. Though in all honesty, if you skip out of stores for a farmer's market, don't you win out?
@DrKyure If you're saying vegies can have E coli, you're correct, but the bad strains of E Coli comes from feeding corn to cattle. If their waste is used to fertilize a field, can't it contaminate the soil and vegies? The industries are working together to destroy everything. I get many vegies from friends that have large gardens and I grow what I can on my leased property.
Okay, as a Christian, seeing how the agricultural system affects the world, I've chosen to be a vegan, because I want to live in such a way that God is honored in all that I do, including the way I eat. And it doesn't honor Him to eat in ways that destroy the planet and cause both human and animal suffering.
cathavenfostermom1 4 days ago
Stands to reason:
Humans consumed and eat death things......
Well.dead its inside in their bodies.
Wait.Its that a Burger King?
Got to go.
TOLTECAAZTECA 1 week ago
I'm a meat-eater and I view vegans who don't judge others on their diets as ordinary people. I see vegans who do judge others solely on their diets as fruitcakes.
TheRealThreeP 3 weeks ago
@TheRealThreeP I like vegan fruitcakes :D
openheartzoo 3 weeks ago 3
BACON SALAT!
SkokingProductions 3 weeks ago
Thank you for your video. I have recently turned vegan and I feel so much better for it. Looking around on You Tube I really dislike the whole them and us attitude between meat eaters and non-meat eaters. We are all in this together. Vegans don't `hate' meat eaters. I ate meat for years. But I never felt vegetarians were pushing their views onto me. They had an opinion and I had an opinion. Which we are both entitled to. I must say, after going vegan I feel so full of energy & look healthier.
ShelterHelperDogs 3 weeks ago
Humans are omnivores. One of the biggest jumps in our personal evolution, was the incorporation of meat into our diet. It's a calorie rich, fatty substance, that has all the essential amino acids that humans need. And on the ethical issue of meat-eating; domesticated fauna such as cows and pigs are extraordinarily successful as species because humans have bred them for our use. The complete rejection of meat in our diet would inadvertantly result in the deaths of billions of these fauna.
DeplorableBigot 4 weeks ago
@DeplorableBigot Domesticated cows and chickens are so dependent on humans for survival, and require such massive resources to maintain their numbers, that they mostly likely be terminated in excessive numbers. Factory farming does enact a massive strain on local environments. But that is because humans in general enact massive strain on their environment around them. Even if we swapped to an all vegan diet, our industrialized society would still be a detriment to the environment.
DeplorableBigot 4 weeks ago
@DeplorableBigot You need to go away, think a fuck of a lot harder about all these things you've just written, do some reading, watch some videos, a bit of research and whatnot. I'm talking diet essentials, evolution, ethics, supply-and-demand, the full whack.
openheartzoo 4 weeks ago
@openheartzoo Oh, and open your mind.
openheartzoo 4 weeks ago
@openheartzoo I think a fucking ton thank you very much. I happen to be majoring in endocrinology. And I find it fascinating that you are so dismissive because I came to a different conclusion than you did, You are the one who initiating the claims that practicing veganism represents a degree of ethical and moral superiority over practicing a non-vegan diet. I am objecting to the premise you have put forth.
DeplorableBigot 4 weeks ago
@DeplorableBigot BOOM, defensive.
I am saying that I answer this argument too often. People present these things to me like I haven't been over and over and over it, again and again and again. You could find my response in the comments section in a heartbeat, or do some of your own reading on google, easy.
openheartzoo 4 weeks ago
@DeplorableBigot pigs and cows could be phased out, no longer bred for existence, it's not fair to bring a creature into existence in order to mistreat that being. if you can choose the path of minimal suffering this is the more ethical choice. we no longer need to eat meat as we have now left the forest and have technology, we have entered a different phase of evolution.
cafeaulait69 3 weeks ago
"They're not actually interested in challenging themselves at all... they're just interested in making you look like a CRAZY VEGAN" too true
of7senter 1 month ago
Lovely video! I agree with you. If i may suggest one recommendation.
Instead of saying when someone's offering you a chocalate bar: ' i can't have that',
say: 'i choose not to have that' as it doesn't iterfere with freedom.
thenicksterism 1 month ago
@thenicksterism I mean interfere :p
thenicksterism 1 month ago
@endthedeathpenalty ;)
pinguinitacori 1 month ago
The other day vegans torched 14 trucks at Harris Ranch in California. Such arson attacks are supposed to make the world turn vegan. Fat chance. And tell me you are not terrorists. To me you vegans are no different from the Real IRA, Al Qaida, the Lord's Resistance Army and others who try to force their beliefs on the world at large.
Albacorewing 1 month ago
@Albacorewing And believing that a tiny minority of violent vegans represent all vegans is about as ignorant as believing that Al Qaeda represent Islam or that WBC represent Christianity or that David Cameron represents Britons or that Sarkozy represents the French. On the other hand, do you actually value trucks more than animals? It's a ridiculous act of destruction to torch trucks, but cmon. It's a truck.
openheartzoo 1 month ago 7
@openheartzoo A lot of truckers sleep in trucks. Someone could easily have been killed. Sooner or later vegans will go too far, and there will be a sea change as to how the public sees them. Mark my words. Keep your beliefs to yourselves, and keep out of other's business, I suggest.
Albacorewing 1 month ago
@Albacorewing My beliefs concern compassion. I believe in compassion. I believe in limitless compassion, for all beings, human or nonhuman. I belief in putting absolutely no constraints on the amount of compassion I feel and show for all sentient beings. That is why I'm vegan, that is my belief. I will not keep this to myself.
openheartzoo 1 month ago
@openheartzoo *believe
openheartzoo 1 month ago
@openheartzoo Then why the arson? If that is what you people think, why do you people think that arson is the way? Don't you realize that such tactics will never work? You are going right down the same road that the abortion clinic bombers took, and you will get the same results.
Albacorewing
Albacorewing 1 month ago
@Albacorewing I agree with the wonderful girl who made the video. You cant make sweeping generalisations like that. As well as being vegan, I've been an anti-death penalty activist for years and have not come across one single vegan on death row- so am I to say "you meat eaters are always killing people" ?
endthedeathpenalty 1 month ago
@endthedeathpenalty @danrmaz sorry folks, actually blocked albacorewing 'cause i smelt a wee troll in the works. tend to deliver a swift blocking if someone seems like they're being deliberately, repeatedly stupid. but thanks for the support!
openheartzoo 1 month ago
@openheartzoo good idea! Have a great weekend! :)
endthedeathpenalty 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos
@Albacorewing Nothing wrong with a bit of direct action! Property does not have feelings! And all those poor people that had to replace the trucks or even being fired form the jobs as a result of the possible cut-backs as a result of this direct action, well boohoo so effing what?!?! Change the occupation! That was the whole point of the action was to sabotage and maim somewhat the company in question.
Never heard of direct action?! Read up about it!
danrmaz 1 month ago
I think you are a lovely person, hope to meet someone like you someday.
sam92teg 1 month ago
meat is america, vegetarians are communist
DevilhunterGaara1 1 month ago
She's a spontaneous vegan. Super!
dropintheforest 1 month ago
JUST ASK THOSE TOMATOES POTATOES AND RADISHES YOU EAT HOW THEY FEEL AS YOU END THIER LIVES IN THERE PRESENT FORM..... BUT SOME FANCY THEMSELVES HIGHTER ON THE KARMIC LADDER ????YET WE ALL ONE DAY BECOME FOOD TO ONE ANOTHER AND THE WORMS IN ONE WAY SHAPE OR FORM SO I SAY .............HO MITAKUYE OYASIN ......CrazyHeart
dmpeters 1 month ago
Advice on speaking compassionately-- Be aware of your phrasing.
Ex: Saying "I can't eat cheese" sounds forced. Say "I choose not to eat cheese" or "I do not eat cheese" which reflect more of the compassion involved in the choice.
Ex: Saying "I do not eat pig" implies that a pig is an object rather than a living being. Say "I do not eat pigs" as this phrase gives life to the word that some children even notice. - gary yourofsky
nikolilaw 1 month ago
You know what really sucks? Being Vegan and Christain lol. I hate arguing so much. I just like what I like. Sucks you don't like it but don't get mad or offended if I'm not the same as you.
Bensabeast 1 month ago
Just a note of support to you. I am 58 yrs old and have been vegan and an activist for 5 years. I admire young people such as yourself who "get it" so young. I am somewhat ashamed that it took me so long, but once I saw Earthlings I went vegan overnight. Yes it is difficult navigating through this carnistic world. Anyway, just a warm hello from a fellow vegan.
lionandlamb3 1 month ago 2
@lionandlamb3 thank you! :)
openheartzoo 1 month ago
the comments on this of late have been sub-par.
openheartzoo 1 month ago
Crusty!!
MCTheo3 1 month ago
<3
I shared this on my facebook page. happy holidays. :)
paintmyturquoise 2 months ago
Meateaters are a cancer on SOCIETY. Where's the beef? A meateater will know.
ktstevens0 2 months ago
Do explain how carnivores are a cancer?
AxiomofDiscord 2 months ago
@AxiomofDiscord what a charming fellow you are.
angrydead 2 months ago
People who treat you bad for your positive lifestyle are the terrorists and such low self esteem to be mean to try to embarass such a nice person, instead of thank you for caring!
ktstevens0 2 months ago
Oh Vegans, I Love you, Going Vegan was the decision I made, I have so many lovely friends who think compassionately, you seem lovely, which is not a suprise because VEGANS ARE LOVELY.
corp09 2 months ago 8
@corp09 Eating meat is immoral!!! /watch?v=6r5a9zDv0E8
haridham 2 months ago
God i love ur accent
duhdohnuts 2 months ago
troll bait...... that's what all of you are
spoonie500 2 months ago
eat something and do some work. all the "vegans" I have ever met are lazy. they dont have enough muscle mass or energy to do anything.
spoonie500 2 months ago
I'm just gonna be honest with you here. I don't believe that anyone has ever called you a terrorist for being a vegan. I'll of course believe you if you say that people make fun of you or insult you, but I think the terrorism thing is a blatant lie you're telling to heroize yourself. I have vegan friends and they've never been called terrorists.
hayesism 2 months ago
@hayesism It's not for you to tell strangers on the internet what they have or have not heard said about themselves, nor should you use your own/your friend's experiences to presuppose other's experiences. It takes quite a gigantic slice of audacity to invalidate a stranger's experience by calling them a blatant liar. You, my friend, are a blatant foooooooool.
openheartzoo 2 months ago 4
@openheartzoo I can't invalidate your experience, nor would I try. I can only question your integrity. (It takes a giant slice of audacity to deny a stranger the right to scepticism.) I was just letting you know that I find that particular part of what you said VERY difficult to swallow (so to speak) because none of my vegan friends have ever been called a terrorist, fascist or Nazi on the basis of their diet. I think most who see this video will feel the same so I thought I should inform you.
hayesism 2 months ago
@hayesism Potentially, you're from a different part of the world where the word "terrorist" weighs heavier and people are less likely to throw it around as an insult.
openheartzoo 2 months ago
@openheartzoo noo but terrorist for not eating meat? at least for eating meat but..really?
greenpredetor 1 month ago
@hayesism I'm vegan. I've been called a terrorist. I also get treated like one by police with photographs and them greeting me by name.
Note: I have no criminal record.
Seriously, don't tell people you don't know what they have or have not experienced. Terrorism is precisely NOT what we are about. We are about saving lives, not taking them.
lingocode 1 month ago
@lingocode "Terrorism is precisely NOT what we are about." My point exactly. Nobody thinks veganism is about terrorism, which is why the idea of anyone calling one a terrorist is ridiculous.
Your story is even less credible, though I'm unclear of the context. Are you saying that even though you have no criminal record, police have found out your name, targeted you, surveilled you, and treated you like a terrorist just because you're vegan? Please.
hayesism 1 month ago
@hayesism Because of going on particular protests against vivisection, yes. Not the diet alone, but standing by principles the same way religious folk object to abortion clinics or gay folk object to homophobic advertising.
You may not view us as terrorists or extremists (thanks!), but sadly many are not so enlightened.
lingocode 1 month ago
@lingocode EXACTLY!! Because of your activism, not because of your veganism. Not that I agree with them, but its a word that's thrown around a lot at protests and you must surely recognise that it had nothing to do with your diet. Not all vegans protest vivisection, not all vivisection protesters are vegan, and police wouldn't pull up medical records to find out which protesters to call terrorists. I can assure you that NOBODY, not even unenlightened bigots, associates veganism with terrorism.
hayesism 1 month ago
@hayesism Yeah, but I have also been called "extremist" very, very frequently for my diet. I think it is extreme to eat dead things when it makes them ill and harms the planet. Same as it is extreme to drink toxins then sleep with people and forget about it. Common behaviours can be "extreme", and unusual behaviours can be "normal". I have been called a terrorist for my diet, too, but granted not very often.
lingocode 1 month ago
@hayesism You're talking shit yourself by utterly denying other people's experiences, just because you don't personally believe it. It's like you took derailing for dummies as gospel, it's laughable and contributes NOTHING.
openheartzoo 1 month ago
you need to stop being stupid and take your life in your own hands and get some backbone! join the revolution! it's a dog eat dog world! ( come up with an argument) stop being a stupid cunt! shut up and do something!!!!
Spooner
spoonie500 2 months ago
we peace makers need to create a world of our own, leave all the animal/human killers alone in their world with all their bloodshed and pollution.and bring our own peaceful world into existence
into existence.
Creativesuns4ever 2 months ago
@Creativesuns4ever some nice idealism, but it would mean leaving a lot of innocent beings in the hands of those killers. even murderers are themselves suffering immeasurably.
openheartzoo 2 months ago
@Spoonie500 ... You're just plain stupid
pinguinitacori 2 months ago
@pinguinitacori no way, he's BEYOND stupid!!! :)
endthedeathpenalty 1 month ago
book:the secret life of plants
spoonie500 2 months ago
you vegans are horrible!! plants have feeling and emotions, at least animals can run away!!!!
spoonie500 2 months ago
@spoonie500 och awa the noo.
openheartzoo 2 months ago
@spoonie500 Lol, I tried not to but I had to giggle. You're right, the poor vegetables :D Thanks mate!
TheWinterWaterSong 2 months ago
@spoonie500 YET more bullsh*t about that? How in hell does it POSSIBLY justify your eating meat?? And if we don't eat plants, what are we supposed to eat? PLANTS ARE HERE TO BE EATEN. CARNIVORES EAT ANIMALS. OMNIVORES EAT PLANTS AND ANIMALS. HERBIVORES EAT PLANTS.
UmbreonAndEspeon1 2 months ago
veganism is met with such resistance because people don't want to stop and think about their diet that's killing them, the destruction of billions of other creatures for their hunger, and the prospect of giving up some of life's more trivial pleasures.
sensibuddz 2 months ago
Sorry, eating meat IS natural. The proof is the fact that your body will digest meat if it's eaten. We could go back and forth on the quality or morality of this decision, but the fact still remains that eating meat is a perfectly natural function of humans.
Veganism is a learned behavior. Eating meat is instinct.
tantoi10man 2 months ago
@tantoi10man The human body can digest SOME cooked, prepared parts of other animals, fine. Who cares. We don't have to do, we don't have to cause suffering.
But next time you're in a field of antelope and feel the INSTINCT to down that shit and kill them right in the neck with just your physical body, please take a video, because I'd love to see you prove dem molars. Dunno about you, but I don't let my "instincts" control my morals, and I don't salivate at a herd of cows.
openheartzoo 2 months ago
@openheartzoo Humans can digest raw fish (Sushi anyone?)
Humans don't use teeth to hunt or gather, we use hands. Hands are capable of gathering fruits, and crafting tools to aquire protein (i.e. meat). Hands are something that developes for a generalized feeder.
tantoi10man 2 months ago
@tantoi10man hang on 'til i snooze after reading this tired argument which, while very anthropological and underthought, is utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of things. we could debate this until we've evolved ten hands and guns for teeth and it still wouldn't be necessary to violently torture and kill to eat. if missing the point is what you're about, go work on a factory farm and try arguing this naturalistic view from there.
openheartzoo 2 months ago
@openheartzoo AMEN!
lingocode 1 month ago
@tantoi10man
we can digest cardboard, would you say it makes sense to eat it?
if eating meat was instinct then why don't you tear into the flesh of a cow while it's still alive/freshly killed and not gutted.
unless you can kill a cow with only your body (and those viscous sharp claws of yours) how can you say we're supposed to eat meat?
crypticspoon93 2 months ago
@crypticspoon93 hear, hear. i could digest some soil and even get some vitamin b12 from it, but i'm not gonna. and why not? because CAN will nevaaarrr evaaarrr mean SHOULD.
openheartzoo 2 months ago
@tantoi10man All diets are learned behavior from the parents. Consuming energy is what is instinct. There is energy in both plants and animals. Therefore a starving human will eat whichever is the only available source. However we all know a baby human will eat the apple before it eats the bunny rabbit anyway. Plants dont put up nearly as much of a fight as large animals with claws and teeth that run, kick and scream. So its just smarter in an instinctual way to hunt the apple.
CantWeedThis 2 months ago
@CantWeedThis But we all know a baby will eat milk before he/she eats an apple. A babies first and primary diet consists almost entirely of animal product.
tantoi10man 2 months ago
@tantoi10man Youre calling your mom an animal? Why dont you ask mom if you can suck her teets instead of bothering the cows. Or grow up. Do you still wear diapers?
CantWeedThis 2 months ago
@CantWeedThis Yes, humans are animals too. However, it has been show that human benefit from milk consumption long after the infancy stage, cows milk being among the most nutritious. In the future, please refrain from ad Hominum, let keep this debate civil.
tantoi10man 2 months ago
@tantoi10man What do humans benefit from in cows milk? The nutrients, like Vitamin D? The stuff that can be found all throughout the plant kingdom. What about the stuff in cheese that is bad, like saturated fat? What about the cows that are in a cage and treated worse than prisoners their whole life? What about that part? Even if you want to argue organic cows kept in a fenced off grass field. Farmed animals have the live of a prisoner in the outdoor section of the penitentiary.
CantWeedThis 2 months ago
@CantWeedThis Humans need calcium in order to grow strong bones, milk cow milk has some of the highest concentrations of calcium of any resource. In reality, if dairy cows don't get milked nearly every day (something their young no longer dose at one point), their utters get swollen and will get infected, so actually, NOT consuming cow milk causes animal suffering.
tantoi10man 2 months ago
@tantoi10man Humans are the only animals who continue to drink milk past infanthood. We are the only animals who drink milk from another species. We are the only animals who use a machine to extract the milk from the other species. In order to have milk, cows must be cyclically impregnated, their calves are taken from them as soon as born and chopped up for veal.
So unless you're off to give some udders a good sucking for yer breakfast, I'd suggest keeping half-truths to yourself.
openheartzoo 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@openheartzoo We are also the only species that makes computers and penicillin. It's called innovation. We drink milk past "infanthood" (*infancy) and from other species because we are the only species to have developed agriculture. Unless you are hunter-gatherer (without the hunting, of course), you too depend on agriculture to eat. Your point is invalid.
Humans are the only species to eat tofu and drink soy milk. Does that make these things wrong?
hayesism 2 months ago
@hayesism Two different users arguing from two different levels. I wouldn't use the "nature" aspect except in retaliation to someone who argues that drinking milk is "natural" - I agree with you, we've evolved and innovation is wonderful. However, we've evolved so much that we now have the capacity to get everything we need without harming any animals at all. "Agriculture" isn't inherently bad - it doesn't have to involve hurting animals. Causing suffering is what is wrong.
openheartzoo 2 months ago
@hayesism I am a low fat/high carb raw vegan - so I would say yes. Same goes for bread and anything we have to cook in order to digest it!
lingocode 1 month ago
@openheartzoo No, many animals drink cow milk long after maturity. A good example is coyotes, they will actually eat milk out of calf feces. Many creatures in nature already know that cows milk is extremely nutritious. So that assertion is simply wrong. And my assertion is still correct, a dairy cow will suffer if they are not milked everyday. Also, dairy cows are raised to produce dairy, veal comes from different cows. I'd suggest keeping blatant disinformation to yourself.
tantoi10man 2 months ago
More meat for me!!
604josh 2 months ago
@604josh VEGETABLES. c'est tout.
openheartzoo 2 months ago
Your interests and favourite videos do not indicate a person who is, yknow, really very very very interested in the rights and equality and not objectifying others... from the way you obviously perceive women, it follows that you wouldn't be too interested in the rights of animals and instead prioritise your own desire to objectify. Maybe you should read a book called "The Sexual Politics of Meat"
openheartzoo 3 months ago
Amen!
BettySpringfield23 3 months ago
i eat meat but i am not against most ideas of veganism, i am totally against capitalism and mass production of meat and the torture it brings to animals which they do not deserve, i believe that if i kill it or find it dead(still fresh) i can eat it and there is nothing wrong with that because it is something normal in nature as animals eat each other and i am sure that what im eating does not have injected hormones and antibiotics which are harmful to my health, i say boycott the meat industry
DanteWhite 3 months ago
@DanteWhite I will not boycott the meat industry. I enjoy buying meat at my local grocery store. Cook it well and it will kill any bad stuff in the meat from the factory farm.
lovebigboobs29 3 months ago
@lovebigboobs29 good luck removing hormones,anti-biotics, defective cells from abnormal growth of mass produced animals by just cooking the meat. i have never said eating meat is a problem but the way that meat is mass produced is a problem(for health and ethical reasons), these companies dont care about your health they only care for profit. there are scientific studies that show correlations between mass produced meat and cancer, so if u wanna end up with cancer go head eat all the meat u want
DanteWhite 3 months ago
@DanteWhite No one in my family has ever had cancer. It doesn't run in the family. We all eat meat. Cancer is mostly genetic. Its not like I can control how the meat is produced. I am not interested in not eating it. They need to change the way factory farms operate atleast with the chemicles. Over-crowded cant really be controlled considering billions of people eat meat.
lovebigboobs29 3 months ago
@lovebigboobs29 your arguments are ridiculous and chock-full of underresearched pseudo-science, go away from my comments section and take your busty lady favourites playlist with you, you serial objectifier. holy smokes.
openheartzoo 2 months ago
@openheartzoo ROFL you're an idiot.
lovebigboobs29 2 months ago
Veganism rules. Great channel and video. Please check out mine as well
haridham 3 months ago
I know it's healthy but my parents wouldn't help me as they already are mad I'm a vegetarian
JustCallMeAmanda 4 months ago
Im vegetarian I would love to be vegan but at my age it wouldn't be healthy since I'm only 13
JustCallMeAmanda 4 months ago
@JustCallMeAmanda everything you've heard about veganism being unhealthy is a lie! just type "vegan athletes" into google! my only concern regarding your age would be that you might not be in a position to choose everything you eat, you might have to get your parent/guardian on board and that is sometimes difficult.
openheartzoo 4 months ago
@openheartzoo she will need protein man, don't say that unless you're a doctor, without protein she will be unhealth, but we have synthetic proteins , some of then are extracted from milk, the whey protein, and this kind of protein is what athletes use, cause have a good and fast absorvetion in our organism, so you don't need to kill animals to that, but proteins you need, and even grease is healthy , they are goof for hormones, sorry for english,Continues...
aw3t464747 3 months ago
@openheartzoo continuing, i suport if you want be a vegan, but is very good go to a doctor , so he can guide you to make this the more healthy possible
sorry for the english :) !
aw3t464747 3 months ago
@openheartzoo Actually its not a lie. It isn't as healthy as a balanced omnivore diet. I have known friends who went vegan and got very ill. Started eating meat again and felt better.
lovebigboobs29 3 months ago
@lovebigboobs29 Detox and balance. When becoming vegan, you may feel odd for a while as your body starts removing all the crap, it's just a matter of adjustment. You then also must watch the balance of what your eating to replenish yourself. If your friends have felt crap, they haven't persisted correctly.
openheartzoo 3 months ago
@openheartzoo *you're
openheartzoo 3 months ago
@openheartzoo There's no crap in your body from eating meat. I am sorry but you can be as healthy even healthier eating a balanced diet with meat included. Your body doesn't need detoxing just because you eat normal food. I feel great on an omnivore diet. Just because they felt like as trying to be vegan doesn't mean they did it wrong. It means the diet isn't for everyone.
lovebigboobs29 3 months ago
@lovebigboobs29 You don't know enough about meat, the meat industry and how the human body processes meat. A vegan diet can be adapted to suit any individual. Any huge change in diet is going to make someone feel different until their body adapts to the change. I feel absolutely amazing on a vegan diet, but I'm sure that you believe the feeling-like-as [sic] experience overrides mine. Maybe your friends liked the idea of veganism, but needed a good excuse to remain attached to meat.
openheartzoo 3 months ago
@lovebigboobs29 By the way, it's very hard not to write off everything you say immediately on sight of your username and the absolute nick of your favourites list. Lordy.
openheartzoo 3 months ago
@openheartzoo Its just a name. Sheesh. I am being serious in these comments tho.
lovebigboobs29 3 months ago
Everywhere I go people are talking about humane and free-range. Let me ask the people that think about these. Is it right to control and enslave? Is it right to take an innocent life? Is it right to kidnap babies from their mother? Is it right to rape and steal milk from the breast of a lactating mother? Is it right to abuse those that seem weaker than us (bullying)? Is it right to have a monetary value on life? Do to others as you would like done to you! It doesn't just mean people.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
Pretty much the extremists having the loudest voices.
DrKyure 4 months ago
I mean in all honesty if you look in the related videos you have one from kimxxxyyy entitled "FIVE Reasons WHY Meat-Eaters Are Retarded!"
People get use to vegs thinking poorly of them and will become defensive based on what they experience. If I said I'm a Christian and I want to talk to you about Homosexuality (assuming I would be able to get to bringing up homosexuality) would you not jump to the conclusion I was about to say it is immoral instead of saying we should support it legally?
DrKyure 4 months ago
The problem is that the reasons people think this is that some people actual act like that.
Nazi is usually suffering to "food nazi" and those vegs who think they everyone has to be a veg to me moral. I guess fascist also falls into this.
The cult thing comes from those who turn veganism into dogma. People actually do this.
Terrorist comes from groups like ALF and ELF.
Also something you seem to miss, you said you will strongly defend your views when questioned. Omnivores do this to.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure I agree with what you're saying. Extremist on either end is bad, protesting is bad and stupid! It's better to show people how not being vegan can affect our own values. Everyone has different values, so as an example I've always loved animals and lived in ignorance about how they were slaughtered. When I found videos, on my own, from the slaughter house (Earthlings) it challenged my value for loving animals and I changed because I didn't want to go against my value.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: I also don't think people should be around people who think exactly the same as you. I know what it is like to talk to someone who feels the same about meatless diets. It's nice, but you are still just agreeing and swapping stories of those you view as dumb.
It would be better to focus on the health problems associated with factory harming (spelling mistake but I found it funny and left it in) to stop factory farming because that is where most of the problems are.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure I'm not in some kind of cult, I don't hang out with many vegans because most of the people I know and work with aren't. I understand what you're talking about, but I don't view others as dumb because I know how it was for me before I changed. I was close-minded and I wouldn't subject myself to anything vegan or vegetarian.
Funny typo ;)
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: That isn't a cult, that is a group of like minded people. Have you not been to a forum of Christains, Atheists, Omnivores, or vegs where they all are saying, in essence, "we rule, fuck the other side." I know I've done this as I've done it.
Well, I think it's more the "dumb" and extreme ones. Though this can snowball into the group as a whole.
Most people can't get over the fact that I'm fat. Thus I must eat huge amounts of meat at every meal. Though I usually don't.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure After I became Vegetarian, it was hard at first, because my conscience was bothering me like that of a smoker or alcoholic trying to quit. When I was hungry my conscience was very bad, but I fought it with the images that reminded me of my values. After awhile I grew stronger and the bad conscience was gone. It made me realize that I had an addiction. Animal products are like drugs and while you're under the influence you shut yourself off from the reality of what's really happening
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: You basically did what the videos wanted. Show graphic images to try and get people to stop eating meat because other people have problems with it. Of course, they don't show or mention the problems associated with factory agriculture which can be just as bad. After all, what does it matter if the rain forest is being bulldozed for plants or animals so we can eat them? And a lot of the arguments are one sided. Like the 1:10 ratio. We grow crops in the dessert. -_-
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure The videos were meant to expose what happens in the industry. I'm sure it shows most of the worst situations, but it was made to raise awareness. How many people think of how meat is made? People live in ignorance thinking it's a completely painless process at the end of an animal's life. This isn't true, because to make the most money they have to kill the animals when they first reach their full size. Otherwise they would feed the animals forever and waste money (it's business).
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: What's most shocking are how good the good farms are. Though if you honestly think killing animals for food is immoral, by all meals discontinue eating meat as long as you can do it and be healthy.
Though I must say, I'm sure I could tell you about some of the vegetarian, or even vegan, foods that you eat that you are ignorant of and what goes in them. Lets just say that the laws regarding contamination is lax for all foods.
Again, you argue from factory farms and greed.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure Agriculture too, it's bad because of the large corporations controlling everything and the meat industry has their hands in agriculture too. They get cheap grains to feed the animals by messing with the market. The animals eat a lot of grains too, it's estimated with our current agriculture we could feed 8 billion people, but much of it goes to the meat and dairy industry. If you buy anything with corn syrup and the many other forms of corn you're supporting factory agriculture.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: They (the industry and corporations selling them) have stock in veg-alternative foods too. It's industry that is bad, not raising animals for food. An industry will try to make as much money as they can, it's cheaper to pay fines to be more humane and of course the workers take out frustrations on the animals, which become PETA videos. The problem lies in the public for a big part of it. While most want animals to be well treated, they don't want to pay 10 times as much.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure The best way for Vegans to help people is to learn how to deal with addicts. You can't say their stupid and all this crap. You don't call someone dumb just because they never learned something. We have to be understanding and we can't be pushy. We have to find out what their values are and show that their values are under attack eating meat. Whether it's animal welfare, health, family, money, etc... all of these values are challenged by eating animal products.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: You basically sacrificed to feel normal, as you did before you thought it was wrong.
Enjoying your food doesn't make you addicted. I can nonchalantly eat a meatless or nearly meatless meal and I don't start to shake because of it. People like meat because it tastes good because our bodies are actually aided by it. Plants tend to be low in quality but high in quantity and meat is the opposite.
You also can't do any of that if they view the evidence and choose differently.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure To feel normal? I'm a very small minority now, how is that normal? Besides there's so many diets out there, what is normal? I do what makes me happy and healthy.
Of course skipping meat for one meal isn't going to kill you, but I know people that think it will. I didn't realize it was an addiction at first and if you told me this when I was a meat eater I would laugh and say the same things you're saying. Do most addicts realize they have a problem until they try to change?
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: I think you misunderstood me. What I meant is that people who give up meat do so in order to feel the same way about food as they did when they ate meat but didn't think of it as immoral. I say this because it is often untrue that vegs feel better about themselves because they don't eat meat, although some obviously have some egos to them.
Happy and healthy can be opposites though.
Of course skipping it for 20 years may harm you.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: It's not really an addiction, it tastes good yes, but that is a biological reaction to eating a substance that, in moderation, is healthy for us to eat.
It's also untrue to say something that someone does that they enjoy means they have an addiction. I like to debate with vegetarians and vegans but I wouldn't call that an addiction. It is entertaining but there is no physical dependence or even psychological dependence.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Next time an omnivore freaks about not eating meat for one meal (though 50 years ago we are meat perhaps a few times a week) ask them if they have ever had a PBJ with chips and a drink for lunch as a kid. That would be a meatless meal. :D
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure I'm one of the only people I knew that ate meat without adding anything to it. People were like, "don't you want something on that?" " It can't taste good like that".... Most meats that people love are heavily spiced so it doesn't taste like a dirty dish towel. Meat isn't more nutrient dense, go the the USDA nutrition facts and compare lean grass fed beef with lentils or other legumes. Plants low in quality....now that's funny because even meat eaters know vegies are good for us.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: I would guess that meat (unless its gamy) tastes as different humanly raised and fed natural food as home grown produce is, which is why I'm spoiled and don't want to eat tomatoes and cucumbers on my salad now. :P
I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm saying that plants tend to be nutrient light or have their nutrient protected by cellulose where meat tends to be higher and doesn't have cellulose. But yes, you do need fiber and plants greatly help you, along with meat.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: I've compared before and meat usually has higher fat while veg alternative food has higher salt. I looked two up. Nutrition Facts for a McDonald's Double 1/4 poudner w/ cheese (280 g) and homade baked beans (252 g) Sodium content is close (though this is a really unhealthy buger). More protein (not even bringing it up), higher Vit-A in the burger, twice as much calcium, 2% less Vit-C, and higher iron. Of course fat and cholesterol is WAY high for the burger.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure I've never had any high quality meat and I used to eat a lot. We don't need the solid fats, because they aren't good for us. All meats, with the exception of fish, are bad for our circulatory system. Our bodies produce cholesterol and other fats, but we need Omega 3's that we get from plants, nuts, and seeds. The pros outweigh the cons and the legumes are much better than meat.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Well you also likely lived in western society where we don't tend to have healthy meats that are lean or even the best, organ meats.
No, but you need fat and a good moderation won't hurt you.
All fatty meats, I don't think liver has much fat to it. Loads of iron though. Well, the think about Omega-3's is that they are good for us, can make us smarter, but we don't know how the darn things work.
I showed there is a lot of fat, though I also did a healthy vs fatty example.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure I'm not forcing anyone to change, but I know many people in poor health and I will do what I can to help. My mother was obese and had high BP, arthritis, gout, and depression. 6 months ago she became vegetarian and lost weight, arthritis is gone (can walk and exercise now), gout is gone, BP is normal with no expensive medication (that probably caused the gout), and she's as happy and energetic as I've ever seen her. There's only positive side effects to this diet as opposed to meds.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: OK, but you have to understand that eating a poor diet that includes meat is making people unhealthy because it is a poor diet, not because it includes meat.
Though I suppose that excluding all of something may make it easier to not eat it then trying to eat the healthy forms of that something.
Arthritis isn't caused by meat, and again, good diet = good results. I could eat lean meat and more fresh veggies and fruits and loose weight.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure Animal welfare is easy to prove, because there's hidden video footage of the slaughter houses like "Earthlings". Health is also fairly simple because even some Dr's and the USDA are saying we need to consume less animal products and "Forks Over Knives" shows the health problems.. High BP, Heart Disease, Diabetes, Cancer, Osteoporosis, Arthritis, and the list goes on. Family is the same as health because if you care about your family you'll care about their health.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Again though, factory farming is bad and most people know this. But there are also humane farm. Humane farms will shock you more then the bad ones for all they do for their animals.
Oh Forks Over Knives...such so many poor arguments.
Heart disease is about the only thing caused by eating meat diet (in western countries). Vegs get fewer cancers but get Colo-rectal cancer more often. Diabetes, osteoporosis, and arthritis can happen on a veg diet, especially diabetes.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure By humane you mean they don't get abused like on Earthlings, but they share the same traumatic fate, to be born and raised to slaughter. They deserve a chance at life just like any of us. Of course in the wild other animals eat them, but we also die young in car wrecks, so does that make it alright to kill people that are old enough to drive just because they could have the same fate driving?
Do you think all the fast food places could operate from humane farms? They're a minority.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Yes they are still killed. This is why you don't eat meat and why I do. I personally don't have a problem with an animal being killed so I can eat it. I take offense at how they are raised and killed not that they are raised to be killed.
Saying animals do it so its OK is a naturalistic fallacy. You can find rape and anything else you want to find in the animal kingdom. I mean we are the only animal to use technology, but that doesn't make it wrong to do so.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Well they could, just not as cheaply and on the same scale as they do now. We should decrease the amount of meat we eat and would have to to raise animals humanely.
Anyone who wants to eat meat should pay to have it done right and (can be an or but and would be better) should, at least once, look an animal in the eye as they kill that animal or in some other way know they are directly responsible for the animal's death. (Ah, trying to to just say "it" so that may sound odd).
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure What arguments were poor? Food Matters, doesn't have any facts or research to back it. It's easy to discredit the people we don't agree with. Look at Nikola Tesla, he was a genius before his time, but people would never listen to him and mock him, so he spent the rest of his life as a recluse. If you like having AC electricity in your home, thank Nikola (Westinghouse funded Tesla). Even the history books discredit Tesla, but the FBI did take all his research when he died. Strange.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: The movie opens with filmmaker Lee Fulkerson — whose stated vices are Red Bulls and soda — going to vegan doctors Matthew Lederman and Alona Pulde to discover that his daily Red Bulls have not contributed to a rosy picture of health. Lederman and Pulde tell him that he is at risk of a heart attack. Time for Fulkerson to give up all animal products and refined foods.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129:
This becomes the bookend for the movie, with the conclusion being that Fulkerson gets his numbers checked after a few months as a Red Bull-free vegan and finds that every single health marker has wildly improved. “Oh my God, I can’t believe it!” he exclaims when he hears how drastically his cholesterol has dropped.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Look at Lierre Kieth. You know, I find it ironic that Earthlings has the 3 stages of denial be: Ridicule, violent opposition, and acceptance when many times you can see vegans ridiculing, find "violent opposition, and finally acceptance as an ex-vegan. Though the violent opposition usually isn't done from either side, usually ridicule then acceptance of viability.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure At least we can agree on Heart Disease and people eat too much meat ;)
Out of the many cancers I'm satisfied to just fight my odds with one instead of many, but I would be interested in seeing this fact!
Exactly, nutrition is important for any diet and many vegs mess up their diet because they're also ignorant and don't care to learn nutrition, but this is the same in any diet. I don't agree with arthritis, because my mom is rid of her arthritis after going veg :)
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Yes that much is true, feel free to throw in Factory Farming is needlessly cruel and that eating meat is an extravagance if you want. The worst thing you can do for your argument is deny there is any drawbacks to it.
Though you can also eat fried veggies and fruits in vegetable oil and have higher heart disease then normal.
Well, the problem with the article I read is that it just says more likely to get it. I mean 99 cancers at 1% or 1 at 99% or is it...
DrKyure 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: ....is it 99 at 17% and one at 18%. I honestly don't know. Though the ADA's vegetarian research team said that no clear evidence was found between eating less meat and fewer cancer, but again, its hard to say yes to something where there are so many factors.
Again it could be better diet vs poor diet instead of meat vs no meat. I mean I've gotten stomach aches from full fat chips when I ate baked ones on a diet so I don't put much faith into aches after eating meat again.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Also the reason why veg diets tend to be healthier is that if you go veg you will tend to watch what you do. You likely have to watch what you eat but you'll also exercise and refrain from drinking heavily and smoking.
Also most of the dirty conditions associated with factory farming is because of the high demand and cheap meat. A lower demand with more pricey meat would be better off for the animals and the consumer.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure Many people that go veg get sick or don't stay veg because they don't watch their nutrition. Ignorance is bad any way you look at it. I've always watched what I did because I like to know many things and nutrition is important for anyone. I drink beer and alcohol, because many are vegan, especially the micro-brews. I'm sure most vegs don't smoke, but smoking is also an addiction like meat and vegs have stronger will power to change. Just a theory.... but an interesting thought!
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Which is also an argument as to why they are healthier. You go from eating what ever to having to eat certain things to get all the nutrition you need. Granted some omnivores need to eat better, but they usually don't have to watch what they eat.
Eh, there is physical addiction to alcohol and cigarettes. I only had meat craving when I tried being vegetarian for a while, though I did have a slim jim in my room that I thought I had eaten. I know they are unhealthy but so good.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure Death in any quantity is bad for the animals. I'm not a PETA supporter, because they have a bad standard of ethics. They kill animals too! But their reason might be to prevent suffering, because many animals in shelters are sent to labs for testing if they aren't adopted. I don't know if this is PETA's reasoning, but I would always look for a better solution. Especially if it goes against the name of my organization!!!!
If less meat is better, what's wrong with none? Seriously?
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Bad for the individual perhaps, not for the entire species. The problem with the killing argument is that we have to be predators to survive (unless we feed off living animals or plants and become parasites).
I could say that for everything. If less antibiotics is better, whats wrong with none? There can be adverse effects, they are at least claimed, by people who have eaten meat. There are problems with it, but I don't think problems now should mean total abolishment.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure Then money, when I was a vegetarian it was expensive because I bought processed foods that were quick and easy to make. But when I became vegan I couldn't eat most of these because they're not vegan. So I bought more foods like dried beans, lentils, rice and all of these are very cheap when compared to meat and lentils are very high in vitamins and protein. There's so many inexpensive vegan foods, but you have to be open minded and think about it if you're on a budget.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: You're still not a vegan...at least if you think you have to eat zero animal products and/or use zero animal products. Just about everything you are touching as you read this was made with or as a result of animal by-products. Glues, crayons, dyes, oils, etc all come from animals. So if you live in western society you CAN NOT be a "true" vegan. Then add the insect eggs, insect parts, rat hairs, other other allowed contaminates to meatless food and you have a big problem.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure "Vegan" is a stupid name made up for a vegetarian that doesn't eat any animal products. Vegetarian should be the word, but people want to make up other names for different vegs. I don't eat glues and things, so this doesn't go against my diet. Of course I don't want these things and I try not to buy anything with animal by-products or testing. If there wasn't a meat industry these products would have been made differently. With different ingredients, but they use what's cheap.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Oh it goes farthing then that. I've had people tell me you can't be a vegan if you use any animal products and that it is a life style, not a diet. I've heart another one on an alkaline ash diet say that he eats "human food" and that if you eat genetically altered by man food you should be classified as a vegetarian because true vegans eat 100% natural foods (like Marijuana).
People get butt-hurt when you try to take away their self-given labels.
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure Bugs? Really, you seem to be attacking my diet now. I'm sure you've heard that most people eat baby spiders in their sleep? I'm sure I've accidentally ate some bugs when running or riding my bicycle, but it wasn't intentional. There's a difference between accident and doing on purpose! Cows and other herbivores eat tiny creatures by accident, so should we consider them omnivores? It's a ridiculous statement to make. Now you sound like me before I changed, because I ridiculed.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago
@BreakingHabits129: Yes but that is a myth. The thing about bugs in food is true. This is more to the people who say how dirty meat is (although true) and say you can't be a veg if you eat and/or use any animal products. Though I knowingly eat peanut butter and noodles so, eh, what can ya do?
I think of it more as poking fun. Though it is something to think about. Food is not as regulated as people think. Though in all honesty, if you skip out of stores for a farmer's market, don't you win out?
DrKyure 4 months ago
@DrKyure If you're saying vegies can have E coli, you're correct, but the bad strains of E Coli comes from feeding corn to cattle. If their waste is used to fertilize a field, can't it contaminate the soil and vegies? The industries are working together to destroy everything. I get many vegies from friends that have large gardens and I grow what I can on my leased property.
BreakingHabits129 4 months ago