going first and choosing 5 makes you the winner. you dont have to think about blocking him, but about not letting him block you, and that's only possible if you pick 5.
And then you have to get a line or a diagonal .. To have the highest chance of success, pick a corner first; then, if they pick middle, pick the opposite corner (i.e: 8 5 2); then if they pick edge it's a draw; if they pick a corner, you win;
If they pick a corner, pick another corner --> easy win (8 2 6 1 4)
If they pick an edge, pick the corner not adjacent to their edge for win (8 1 4 3 2)
So this is a version of Tic-Tac-Toe you can play WITHOUT pen and paper? (if you can manage to remember 5 numbers, or anyone who has a cellphone/other device can type them in.) Cool, another thing to add to the list of car trip games.
Oh by the way I changed the page quite a bit - it's now a lot more user friendly and nicer. It's also a bit faster and it now allows two little "cheat codes": If you press "c" the computer will make a move for you and if you press "t" it will reveal the disguise Tic-Tac-Toe behind the game. :)
@WhatforNameIsThat Yup - that's what is supposed to happen. The computer might not always win (because there is in fact no winning strategy). But if it can't win - it will always make the game tied. :P The computers strategy is not the perfect one but it's "pretty good" (the only improvement that you could make is that when there are multiple ways to make the game at least tied it should choose the one that has the highest possibilities of winning - right now it only picks one randomly).
I realized that it was Tic-Tac-Toe in disguise when I made a little webpage where you can play this game on vs your pc. When I coded the function that checks whether you've won - I realized that it was exactly the same as one for Tic-Tac-Toe except that the numbers are swapped. I still finished the webpage tho, if you wanna have a go:
Now that we all know about the tic tac toe strategy can someone explain why all the corner pieces (8,6,2,4) which you need to start with for the best strategy are even? I would be interested in a mathematical explanation, cheers.
Also best moves I can think of is pick evens until you can pick an odd to make 15
I was thinking that perfect play would lead to a tie every time, but didn't know how to show it. Then I realized that there are only 8 ways to win at Nines. There are also only 8 ways to win at Tic-Tac-Toe (TTT)! Investigating, it turns out that Nines is essentially the same game as TTT: Starting in the top left corner put the numbers 8,1,6::3,5,7::4,9,2. In this set up, winning combinations of TTT are winning combinations at Nines! It has been shown that no player has an advantage in TTT.
Have you read any of the book/series "Winning Ways for your Mathematical Plays?" I like this type of problem, but i'm too tired right now.What is a mathematician without sleep and coffee beans?
I'll think about this during classes tomorrow. I suspect I'll try finding all the ways to sum 15 with 3 of those numbers and list them in order of frequency, but maybe that's the predictable method.
@josguil89 I was thinking of solving it similar to a tic tac toe game with picking 3 numbers in a way that they can't completely block you (because two numbers will give you 15). I never thought to put the numbers into tic tac toe positions though. That's so smart!!
The first player would have a determined chance of winning depending on his/her first pick. If you think of the magic square, there are 8 different combinations of numbers that add up to 15. If you pick a corner number first, you would have 3 out of 8 chances to win. If you pick any other number EXCEPT the center (5), you would have 2 out of 8 chances to win. The best number to pick would be the center number (5), which gives the first player 4 out of 8 chances (or 1/2 50%) to win.
I wonder how many people got the Beethoven joke... Oh I know! I can measure by asking for 'likes' on this comment! But some might not appreciate that lol :p
I'd expand this game to 16 cards, where the sum has to be 34. Because having the first or second move might give a big advantage. Having a bigger game might reduce that problem a bit.
Doh, I hadn't read the comments and I'm obviously a dullard, as many people saw the magic square connection, my bad! Still, check out TUN's video, it's a nice illustration that isn't limited my YouTube comments. :)
@maismau dont know what you meanm but if they dont know what the game all you have to know is the possibilities, if you go first and they dont know it they will believe you cheated. the 5 is a good one to have.
Those people who saw that it can be brought down to tic-tac-toe are brilliant. I will always pick the 5 first if i can. if my oponent does not pick any of the corners 6824 he will lose.
Should be a draw with perfect play. There is a 3x3 magic square that sums to 15:
618
753
294
To win, your three numbers must be a row, diagonal, or column of this magic square. This is equivalent to winning a game of Tic-Tac-Toe. As we all know, that ends in a draw unless you mess up, regardless of who goes first. So there is no winning strategy here.
ok people go search for zermelo's theorem. u should start it says. caus for every game that has an end in a set of turns, and u know whut the other person can do, u have an non loosing strategy. (sry for the bad english)
I think the only way to be sure to win is go first and pick the number 5. Then, for example the friend pick 4, I pick 7, he pick 3 (obviusly), I pick 2, he pick 1 and I pick 6.
His numbers = 1+3+4=8, my numbers = 6+2+7+5=20-5=15=6+2+7 I win! :D
@xXextraslastaXx Ops! I mistaked. Another expample: I pick 5, the opponent picks 9, I pick 4, he picks 6, I pick 8, if he picks 2, I pick 3, if he picks 3 I pick 2 because: I have 5,4,8,3 = 8+4+3=15 and 5,4,8,2 = 8+5+2=15. So I win! :D
Sorry for "he PICK" without "s" on the comment over, but I'm italian ^_^'
@xXextraslastaXx (I think the only way to be sure to win is go first and pick the number 5. Then, for example the friend pick 4, I pick 7, he pick 3 (obviously), I pick 2, he pick...8 and win. he wouldn't pick 1... 4+3+8=15
cont to my comment ran out of space, would eliminate the number that a most common i.e appear in most solutions so as i counter i would want to get rid of 5 early as its in 4 combinations
9 5 1 9 4 2 8 6 1 8 5 2 8 4 3 7 6 2 7 5 3 6 5 4 thats all the possible combinations for 15 without repeating a number since once a card is gone u carnt reuse that number, i would always open with 8 since it has most routes to 15 i spose the other bit of information would be how often a number apears in different three card combinations (* appears) 1* twice 2* three 3* two 4* three 5* four 6* three 7* two 8* three so i would counter based on that eliminating the most
He gave us a week and after an hour or something, more than three people have already found the "solution". We are getting too good at this stuff, thanks to our good teacher...
It appears Pr0tagoras beat me at posting it, but you can reduce the game to tic-tac-toe played on the magical square known as the Lo-Shu:
816
357
492
or a rotaion of this.
The rows (horizontal, vertical and diagonal) represent all ways to make 15 with three numbers from 1 through 9. So each player taking a number in the game as presented in the video corresponds to marking an x or an o on this tic-tac-toe-board. If both players play well, it always ends in a draw...
Arrange the numbers into a magic square (mentally). All rows, columns, diagonals will add up to 15, but no other combinations will. Now what you do is play mental noughts and crosses with your friend/victim! Noughts and crosses is a draw when between sensible people, but you will probably win if your opponent doesn't know this technique. Someone might have thought of that answer before, because it's beautiful. But if not, then I demand a Nobel.
The rules clearly state that you have to make 15 with 3 numbers NOT 2 numbers...
Going first will almost always win, its as simple as that... player 2 is always on the defensive... Simply when picking your 2nd number, the third number needed number has to be in play, so the 2nd player HAS to block (obviously this number can't make him/her win either). Player 2 is ALWAYS on the defensive, and can ONLY win due to a player 1 error when broken down. Player 2 should ALWAYS have a forced move.
The 3x3 magic square has 8 possible solutions, 3 rows + 3 columns + 2 diagonals, of obtaining 15. 4 of them, 50%, involve the number 5 so if you go first then that would be the most important number to pick. Once you have that then just go for the even numbers as doing so would eliminate the remaining possibilities for your opponent to win keeping in mind what your opponent has and stopping him from winning at the same time.
My very first instincts tell me you'd be best off to go first and pick the number 8 (or 7). But that's just my gut. I'm gonna go try it and think this over for a while.
going first should give you the advantage since by turn 3 player A will have at least two ways to win guaranteeing a win. player B wont be able to block i believe
well there are 2 combinations of 2 numbers 9 or less which add to 15. (9+6,7+8) from this we can make 10 combinations of making 15 as you can use one of the original 2 numbers then have to make the other so from the 9+6 combo if we have the 9 there are 2 ways of making a 6 but if you have the 6 there are 3 ways of making the 9 (3+6 doesnt count as you are using the 6 already and 8+1=1+8) so looking at the frequency of numbers num freq 1 2 2 3 3 2 4 3 5 4 6 5 7 3 8 3 9 2
@cycloidpoi continuing you will realise its easier to make a 9 and 7 than 6 and 8 so you would prefer to get a 6 or 8 as your base number. so i would go first and use the 6 this forces my opponent to go for the 7,8 combo and they will take the 8 but they can only make 7 with 2 and 5 or 4 and 3 as you have the 6 so if now i want to take a 2 or 5 as i have 2 ways to win and they only have 1 which if they try to do i can win so they have to block me. now its a case or refusing the other to win
@cycloidpoi end result player one is the only one to win unless the opponent doesn't use sensible moves. the best player 2 can hope for is a draw like in tic tac toe
First. You will be blocked in turn 3, but you can then block them. By this point, you actually have a very high chance of having 3 cards that equal 15 (4 cards vs 3 cards). It turns into a game of blocking, so I'd think going first would give you a +1 advantage.
Lol, Beethoven can't hear a thing! :-D See what you did there... ;-)
SeeEssThree 1 week ago
nice game nice sollution. i wish i had found your channel earlier. but of course i subscribe now
tassay 1 week ago in playlist Uploaded videos
That Beethoven joke is the best joke that you've told in one of your videos.
BlameItOnGreg 1 month ago
its funny cuz he's deaf
0MisterGibson0 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
You guys should tell him that beethoven is deaf. or beethoven was just too shy.
0787q83yvq87 2 months ago
easy 4 times tables
asianpridenoodles 3 months ago
Magic square, so start with 5 each time.
recklessroges 4 months ago
"Can't hear a thing." LOL.
You, my friend, are a riot!
lunatic656 5 months ago 5
Just checking out your channel. Its loaded with awesome (educational+funny) videos. Subscribed!
AmFilms123 5 months ago
Get the five?
HappyMemoryXD 5 months ago
can you do some more juggling videos
Gmoney2697 5 months ago
going first and choosing 5 makes you the winner. you dont have to think about blocking him, but about not letting him block you, and that's only possible if you pick 5.
hellsing233x 5 months ago
I don't know... I need to find some friends
realesethesteam 5 months ago
I'm fairly sure I know a guranteed win method, but I won't spoil it on here.
ANmrpopo 5 months ago
Ooh, i got it .. This is just like tic-tac-toe!!
You put them in a square like:
8 1 6
3 5 7
4 9 2
And then you have to get a line or a diagonal .. To have the highest chance of success, pick a corner first; then, if they pick middle, pick the opposite corner (i.e: 8 5 2); then if they pick edge it's a draw; if they pick a corner, you win;
If they pick a corner, pick another corner --> easy win (8 2 6 1 4)
If they pick an edge, pick the corner not adjacent to their edge for win (8 1 4 3 2)
Lightn0x 5 months ago
bring back the catchphrase "if you have been, thanks for watching"
bluecombats 5 months ago
So, does my friend have to be deaf or will a dead one work?
leftiheat 5 months ago
@leftiheat Haha nice.
screamingpiano 5 months ago
If I solve this one I'm SOOOO going to post a video response.
If I don't solve it... well at least I've tried.
But right now I don't want to since I just got done with three hours of homework. Maybe tommorow.
anticorncob6 5 months ago
Refering to TheUltimateNihlist's magic square, if you go first, you can guarantee either a win or a draw:
***Always pick 5 as a starting #
If your opponent is smart (or they know the square trick) they will pick a corner spot.
Then you pick the opposing corner (so if they pick 6, you go 4)
now they have 4 "smart" (1 move is dumb) moves to make: either of the remaining corners or ones adjacent to them
If they pick adjacent, it's a draw
If the pick corner, they you can setup a guaranteed win
johnnyappleseed12345 5 months ago
@johnnyappleseed12345 In tic-tac-toe, whether you go first or second, you can guarantee you'll never lose.
anticorncob6 5 months ago
So this is a version of Tic-Tac-Toe you can play WITHOUT pen and paper? (if you can manage to remember 5 numbers, or anyone who has a cellphone/other device can type them in.) Cool, another thing to add to the list of car trip games.
Ryan01729 5 months ago
Oh by the way I changed the page quite a bit - it's now a lot more user friendly and nicer. It's also a bit faster and it now allows two little "cheat codes": If you press "c" the computer will make a move for you and if you press "t" it will reveal the disguise Tic-Tac-Toe behind the game. :)
GammahooX 5 months ago
Thanks Gammahoox for making the game playable on the website. For me it wasnt possible to get anything other out of the game then a draw.
WhatforNameIsThat 5 months ago
@WhatforNameIsThat Yup - that's what is supposed to happen. The computer might not always win (because there is in fact no winning strategy). But if it can't win - it will always make the game tied. :P The computers strategy is not the perfect one but it's "pretty good" (the only improvement that you could make is that when there are multiple ways to make the game at least tied it should choose the one that has the highest possibilities of winning - right now it only picks one randomly).
GammahooX 5 months ago
I realized that it was Tic-Tac-Toe in disguise when I made a little webpage where you can play this game on vs your pc. When I coded the function that checks whether you've won - I realized that it was exactly the same as one for Tic-Tac-Toe except that the numbers are swapped. I still finished the webpage tho, if you wanna have a go:
gammahoo[.]de/gameofnine
GammahooX 5 months ago
Now that we all know about the tic tac toe strategy can someone explain why all the corner pieces (8,6,2,4) which you need to start with for the best strategy are even? I would be interested in a mathematical explanation, cheers.
Also best moves I can think of is pick evens until you can pick an odd to make 15
clashdo 5 months ago
@clashdo
Maths is fun!
clashdo 5 months ago
Comment removed
clashdo 5 months ago
the vid response says it best
Artonox 5 months ago
I have no clue nor the friend to test with.. but I wonder if the dynamics change if the card count goes to "12"; 12 + 2 + 1 = 15 scheme?
opaldragon75 5 months ago
I was thinking that perfect play would lead to a tie every time, but didn't know how to show it. Then I realized that there are only 8 ways to win at Nines. There are also only 8 ways to win at Tic-Tac-Toe (TTT)! Investigating, it turns out that Nines is essentially the same game as TTT: Starting in the top left corner put the numbers 8,1,6::3,5,7::4,9,2. In this set up, winning combinations of TTT are winning combinations at Nines! It has been shown that no player has an advantage in TTT.
IhaveWoodforSheep 5 months ago 3
"He can't hear a thing" ZING!
poooop83 5 months ago
Have you read any of the book/series "Winning Ways for your Mathematical Plays?" I like this type of problem, but i'm too tired right now.What is a mathematician without sleep and coffee beans?
11Agamemnon235 5 months ago
"he can't hear a thing" *facepalm*
I'll think about this during classes tomorrow. I suspect I'll try finding all the ways to sum 15 with 3 of those numbers and list them in order of frequency, but maybe that's the predictable method.
Error081688 5 months ago
workn on it......
sheph7 5 months ago
0.31 FuNNy LOL
yadapashembata 5 months ago
Nim. simple as that, just the game nim
animewisher 5 months ago
Suggestion: You can simplify it to a tic tac toe game, just put the numbers in this positions:
6 1 8
7 5 3
2 9 4
(Wow... if I had known this when I programmed the tic tac toe game in my early years, I could have used a lot fewer if's)
josguil89 5 months ago 11
@josguil89 thats a very nice idea
XempireX18 5 months ago
@josguil89 I was thinking of solving it similar to a tic tac toe game with picking 3 numbers in a way that they can't completely block you (because two numbers will give you 15). I never thought to put the numbers into tic tac toe positions though. That's so smart!!
elizze6 5 months ago
The first player would have a determined chance of winning depending on his/her first pick. If you think of the magic square, there are 8 different combinations of numbers that add up to 15. If you pick a corner number first, you would have 3 out of 8 chances to win. If you pick any other number EXCEPT the center (5), you would have 2 out of 8 chances to win. The best number to pick would be the center number (5), which gives the first player 4 out of 8 chances (or 1/2 50%) to win.
knuckles22000 5 months ago
LOL "he can't hear a thing"
markmannification 5 months ago
I wonder how many people got the Beethoven joke... Oh I know! I can measure by asking for 'likes' on this comment! But some might not appreciate that lol :p
I'd expand this game to 16 cards, where the sum has to be 34. Because having the first or second move might give a big advantage. Having a bigger game might reduce that problem a bit.
FHomeBrew 5 months ago 7
@FHomeBrew I understood once you told me it was Beethoven. Does that count?
anticorncob6 5 months ago
@anticorncob6 Sure, Jim mentions Beethoven too in his vid, so you'd've caught it anyway. Probably.
FHomeBrew 5 months ago
you lost to a statue, how does that make you feel
ijustdontcarenemore 5 months ago
Doh, I hadn't read the comments and I'm obviously a dullard, as many people saw the magic square connection, my bad! Still, check out TUN's video, it's a nice illustration that isn't limited my YouTube comments. :)
joshcryer 5 months ago
TheUltimateNihilist's video response is win, nicely done. :) (Hint: Magic Square)
joshcryer 5 months ago
you want to grab the 5. got first if they know the game, 2nd if they dont.
MrMagic322 5 months ago
@MrMagic322 ...so u want to grab the 5. cause if they dont know the game u gona win 100% , if u wish as your opponent dosent know the game. ;P
maismau 5 months ago
@maismau dont know what you meanm but if they dont know what the game all you have to know is the possibilities, if you go first and they dont know it they will believe you cheated. the 5 is a good one to have.
MrMagic322 5 months ago
i loved the Beethoven joke at the start
lankystanky 5 months ago
he said 7 but held up 6 fingers
guppiemagic101 5 months ago
@guppiemagic101 Look closer, he is actually holding up 7 fingers.
someonep93 5 months ago
@someonep93 yeah, i noticed after. i didnt know how 2 delete it
guppiemagic101 5 months ago
pick as many high nmbers as possable
ThePlopl 5 months ago
Those people who saw that it can be brought down to tic-tac-toe are brilliant. I will always pick the 5 first if i can. if my oponent does not pick any of the corners 6824 he will lose.
chyousub 5 months ago
Should be a draw with perfect play. There is a 3x3 magic square that sums to 15:
618
753
294
To win, your three numbers must be a row, diagonal, or column of this magic square. This is equivalent to winning a game of Tic-Tac-Toe. As we all know, that ends in a draw unless you mess up, regardless of who goes first. So there is no winning strategy here.
lzrdking5 5 months ago 12
@lzrdking5 Use the winning strategy for tic-tac-toe.it is better if you go first.
ngpakyin0501 3 weeks ago
ok people go search for zermelo's theorem. u should start it says. caus for every game that has an end in a set of turns, and u know whut the other person can do, u have an non loosing strategy. (sry for the bad english)
mokachie 5 months ago
I think the only way to be sure to win is go first and pick the number 5. Then, for example the friend pick 4, I pick 7, he pick 3 (obviusly), I pick 2, he pick 1 and I pick 6.
His numbers = 1+3+4=8, my numbers = 6+2+7+5=20-5=15=6+2+7 I win! :D
xXextraslastaXx 5 months ago
@xXextraslastaXx Ops! I mistaked. Another expample: I pick 5, the opponent picks 9, I pick 4, he picks 6, I pick 8, if he picks 2, I pick 3, if he picks 3 I pick 2 because: I have 5,4,8,3 = 8+4+3=15 and 5,4,8,2 = 8+5+2=15. So I win! :D
Sorry for "he PICK" without "s" on the comment over, but I'm italian ^_^'
xXextraslastaXx 5 months ago
@xXextraslastaXx (I think the only way to be sure to win is go first and pick the number 5. Then, for example the friend pick 4, I pick 7, he pick 3 (obviously), I pick 2, he pick...8 and win. he wouldn't pick 1... 4+3+8=15
ddun51 5 months ago
Comment removed
nelsyeung 5 months ago
he who goes first always wins
dirtygurty4 5 months ago
@dirtygurty4 un less there a 2 year old
nicholishere 5 months ago
thinking about it open with 5 as it is common to 4 combinations for 15
then 2, 4, 6 and 8 as their common to 3 combinations for 15
lastly 1, 3 and 7 as their common to 2 combinatons for 15
that would be my prefernce for selecting number but also pay attention to you opponents choices.
*sorry about the messy nature of previous comments i realise there hard to understan)
dobsonone 5 months ago
i my 1st comment sorry insert a comma every 3 number's in the list
dobsonone 5 months ago
cont to my comment ran out of space, would eliminate the number that a most common i.e appear in most solutions so as i counter i would want to get rid of 5 early as its in 4 combinations
dobsonone 5 months ago
dobsonone 5 months ago
Lol, "Beethoven wins!"
RandomNinjaOfEvil 5 months ago
He gave us a week and after an hour or something, more than three people have already found the "solution". We are getting too good at this stuff, thanks to our good teacher...
wopaah 5 months ago
Add milk and you win.
Antonypacman 5 months ago
It appears Pr0tagoras beat me at posting it, but you can reduce the game to tic-tac-toe played on the magical square known as the Lo-Shu:
816
357
492
or a rotaion of this.
The rows (horizontal, vertical and diagonal) represent all ways to make 15 with three numbers from 1 through 9. So each player taking a number in the game as presented in the video corresponds to marking an x or an o on this tic-tac-toe-board. If both players play well, it always ends in a draw...
wopaah 5 months ago
Arrange the numbers into a magic square (mentally). All rows, columns, diagonals will add up to 15, but no other combinations will. Now what you do is play mental noughts and crosses with your friend/victim! Noughts and crosses is a draw when between sensible people, but you will probably win if your opponent doesn't know this technique. Someone might have thought of that answer before, because it's beautiful. But if not, then I demand a Nobel.
TMOvids 5 months ago 3
The rules clearly state that you have to make 15 with 3 numbers NOT 2 numbers...
Going first will almost always win, its as simple as that... player 2 is always on the defensive... Simply when picking your 2nd number, the third number needed number has to be in play, so the 2nd player HAS to block (obviously this number can't make him/her win either). Player 2 is ALWAYS on the defensive, and can ONLY win due to a player 1 error when broken down. Player 2 should ALWAYS have a forced move.
MarktheSharkSheehan 5 months ago
The 3x3 magic square has 8 possible solutions, 3 rows + 3 columns + 2 diagonals, of obtaining 15. 4 of them, 50%, involve the number 5 so if you go first then that would be the most important number to pick. Once you have that then just go for the even numbers as doing so would eliminate the remaining possibilities for your opponent to win keeping in mind what your opponent has and stopping him from winning at the same time.
This is just a guess so i might be wrong :D
Asgard0260 5 months ago
My very first instincts tell me you'd be best off to go first and pick the number 8 (or 7). But that's just my gut. I'm gonna go try it and think this over for a while.
DaTux91 5 months ago
hope for the best?
CardMagicianJoeKing 5 months ago
going first should give you the advantage since by turn 3 player A will have at least two ways to win guaranteeing a win. player B wont be able to block i believe
milsumla 5 months ago
Use a third order magic square and the game is reduced to tic-tac-toe which has no winning strategy unless one of the players is an idiot.
Pr0tagoras 5 months ago
cycloidpoi 5 months ago
@cycloidpoi continuing you will realise its easier to make a 9 and 7 than 6 and 8 so you would prefer to get a 6 or 8 as your base number. so i would go first and use the 6 this forces my opponent to go for the 7,8 combo and they will take the 8 but they can only make 7 with 2 and 5 or 4 and 3 as you have the 6 so if now i want to take a 2 or 5 as i have 2 ways to win and they only have 1 which if they try to do i can win so they have to block me. now its a case or refusing the other to win
cycloidpoi 5 months ago
@cycloidpoi end result player one is the only one to win unless the opponent doesn't use sensible moves. the best player 2 can hope for is a draw like in tic tac toe
cycloidpoi 5 months ago
This is interesting .. and original .. I'll give it a go :P
Lightn0x 5 months ago
First. You will be blocked in turn 3, but you can then block them. By this point, you actually have a very high chance of having 3 cards that equal 15 (4 cards vs 3 cards). It turns into a game of blocking, so I'd think going first would give you a +1 advantage.
Could be wrong though lol
ckellingc 5 months ago 30
haha
"i'll give you a week for this one - enough time to find a friend"
how unpopular do you think we are?!
jenniferandhermusic 5 months ago 149
@jenniferandhermusic very
meat283 5 months ago
lol, beethoven
TheTricksterTrio 5 months ago
I have far more than enough time to play the game.
The problem will be finding a friend...
Forcewaterx 5 months ago
Interesting game, James. I'll have to give it a go :)
P4C4N0W5K1 5 months ago
wow man you is sick
TheDrunkSpunk 5 months ago
^_^
jambanIT 5 months ago
:D
tankt202Ot 5 months ago