Something needs to be made clear to Arminian's here. For that I'll quote D.A. Carson:
"Every view of the Atonement “limits” it in some way, save for the view of the unqualified universalist. For example, the Arminian limits the Atonement by regarding it as merely potential for everyone; the Calvinist regards the Atonement as definite and effective (i.e., those for whom Christ died will certainly be saved), but limits this effectiveness to the elect."
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
All of these brave but futile attempts to argue against the clear statements of Scripture:Jn. 3:16,1 Jn. 2:2,Rev. 22:17,1 Tim. 2:4, 2 Pet. 3:9).Of course "all" has other meanings than every person, BUT no Calvinist has shown that "all" means less than all in these texts above.They are not really engaging with the texts or their contexts, especially 1 Jn. 2:2.
The "Truth" of the doctrines of TULIP can only revealed by the Holy Spirit and therefor cannot be taught by men. You can only teach when the students have the ability to understand and therefore any strong defense of the doctrines of TULIP against the ignorance of men is futile and causes the opposition to become more combative.
We share or tell the Gospel, we do not teach nor do we sustain it because that is the ministry of the Holy Spirit
1 John 2:2 for you. Q1) Jesus IS the propitiation for OUR sins. What does this mean? Q2 Do you apply this same propitiation to people who are in hell and who are going to hell since the verse says the He IS (not potentionally but IS) the propitiation for the sins of the whole world? Q3 If it is applied to those in hell are you then saying that He isn't the propitation for their sin of unbelief?
So "ALL" don't mean ALL? And "Whole" doesn't mean "Whole"? These people believe Calvin over the BIBLE. The BIble teaches that Jesus BOUGHT/REDEEMED/DIED FOR even false prophets who will be destroyed. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
@MrNoAvail The price was paid for all men. The Bible is clear on it, he is the propitiation not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world. But that BLOOD must be applied, the sacrifice must be accepted by GOD in behalf of the people. You remember the Day of Atonement? The Lord's Goat was sacrificed for ALL of Israel, but who benefited from the sacrifice? To whom was the merits applied? To those who believed, repented and fasted on that day. That is teaching us about the Lamb of God
@JesusMakeUpMyDyinBed "Do something to give the cross its power"? The cross has all the power to take away all the sins of the whole world. But only those who BELIEVE UPON the Lord shall receive the forgiveness of sins. The merits of the cross is only given / applied to those who believe upon Christ. Calvinists MUST teach that the merits are already applied to the elect, thus they are saved from conception. Study the Day of Atonement, and see WHO received the merits for this universal sacrifice
@martinthezman The atonement of Christ saves all for whom it was intended martin. Jesus gave His life for the sheep and the sheep hear His voice and follow HIm and He gives them eternal life. But there are those who aren't His sheep and they don't believe because they aren't His sheep as Jesus told the Jews in John chapter 10. This is for whom the atonement was intended.
@JesusMakeUpMyDyinBed Christ being omniscience would certainly KNOW who would benefit from his Atonement; but the blood of Christ was shed for the whole world. 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world... This is a BIBLE VERSE that says the same thing I said... YOU DO KNOW that some people Jesus died for will GO TO HELL? 2 Peter 2:1 ... even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
@CantStopTheHopp Read Howie47 comment, he said it well. To take John 3:16 and say thats "limited" atonement is completely wrong and twisting scripture out of its context. It means what it says, whosoever believeth should not perish but have everlasting life. Christ shed His blood for ALL but whosoever believes will obtain everlasting life. Thats not limiting it at all thats just what it says. Christ dying only for the elect is not only limiting it but its blasphemy.
I guess this is what happens when people become over educated. They get confussed. I suppose that's why Jesus said little children shall enter into the kngdom before the highly educated pharsees! Salvation is offered to all men, "whosoever" will come and appropriate it, (buy pure gold, sell all to buy the field with the hid treasure); shall have eternal life. Those who try to earn it by their own goodness or good works, will be rejected. Just like Cain was.
@bullmoose1969 So thats what "whosoever believes" means? The spirit of calvinism has blinded you, taking scripture out of context. You calvinists have to twist scripture (like john316) 7 ways to sunday to make it fit your fatalistic theology. Your heology came from man and how man "interpreted" the bible. If you just allow the bible to interpret itself you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
This video is just arguing over "the traditions of men" and what they taught back when. This video shows the foolishness of calvinism, ALL means ALL, WORLD means WORLD. take it at face value people. The Bible interprets itself, calvinists can take their intellectualism and stuff it. The bible is simple even so that little children can understand. Calvinism is doctrines of devils. @TheFootballguy1010 your exactly right, every calvinist that I know are full of arrogance, rude, and full of pride.
@TheKJVberean You take Berean as your name. Well, that means that you should search the scriptures to see whether these things are so.The meanings of universal terms in the bible are determined by the context of the passage they are in. The context of John 3:16 is the choice of the Holy Spirit in who he regenerates,the blindness of man before he is regenerated,God's plan to save not only jews but also gentiles and the condemnation of the reprobate. It is not an evangelistic verse at all.
I will NEVER be a calvinist? Every single calvinist I have met has been so rude and arrogant. I always ask this question to a calvinist, what makes you more qualified to be "saved" or to be "elect" than the unelect? This is exactly the theology that Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist church teaches. There is no Hope in calvinism. It doesn't say anywhere that I have to be a calvinist in order to be a Christian in the Bible. I am so saved through Jesus's sacrifice!!
Um, there is another way besides "Calvinism" or "Armianism." So glad that God has preserved the Holy Spirit-inspired and infallible Word of God. I need no teacher, but God, in His Spirit, to show me the Truth.
ps. I am "offended" by the view of "limited atonement," and by the view that a born again person can again be brought to death in spirit. Please, read your bibles.
Bro I think you used several verses out of context and if you'd like I can PM you to sort them out. It would take too many comments since you can only make 500 characters or less, lol
Also, the idea that God created most of humanity to torture them for ever is not only ridiculous, its demonic.
The doctrine of eternal torment is itself a doctrine of demons, but the calvanist position that God predestined most of humanity to be tortured for ever is even more diabolical.
"As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
@Ironmaw1776 According to you, Jesus blasphemes God and teaches a doctrine of demons. Jesus spoke about hell, and God's wrath, and the condemnation of unbelievers more than he spoke about heaven.
Jesus never once mentioned the word hell, that is an old English term, and Jesus did not speak English of any kind. He did speak of Sheol and hades which are the grave, and of Gehenna(the valley f the sons of Hinnom), a burning trash pit that was just outside the walls of Jerusalem at that time.
And the idea that Jesus spoke of hell ore than he did of heaven is entirely erroneous.
It is really funny when people say that Jesus spoke more of hell than he did of Heaven. Do yourself a favor, get a concordance and actually do a word study on how many time Christ spoke of "hell" and compare it to every time he mentions heaven(kingdom of heaven, etc.), before you say that again ... Save yourself the embarrassment.
@Ironmaw1776 Do yourself a favor and recognize your logical fallacies my friend :) I never said that he literally spoke the English word "hell" (of course, that's absurd, he didn't speak English!), I said he spoke of the concept of hell, God's wrath, and punishment more than he did (the place of) heaven.
@skalapunk ... I'll do it for you then okay? The word Gehenna is found in the whole new testament, that is all the gospels and every other book of the new testament together, 9 times. Thats 7 times in matthew, 3 times in mark, 1 time in luke and in james.
The word hades is found only found 11 times in the entire new testament, 2 times in mat.,and 2 times in luke.
So altogether christ mentioned hell(hades, gehenna) 15 times .He mentioned heaven almost 100 times in matt. alone. Do the math ...
@Ironmaw1776 For the last time. My point has never been the # of times Jesus said the word hell, but rather, the concept and idea of hell, he spoke on them more times.
Okay i already showed how many times Christ spoke of geheena and hades compared to heaven. Now let us look at how many times Christ mentioned wrath in the gospels.
Wrath - 6 times in all the gospels, judgments is found almost 30 times in all four gospels, condemnation is found 3 times in the gospels ...
Again heaven is found almost 100 times in the book of Mathew alone. It is obvious that Christ spoke far more of the kingdom of heaven.
It is also obvious that hell fire and brimstone Christians who cherish the idea of everlasting torture of most of humanity as being righteous justice simply see Christ speaking more about hell and condemnation and wrath because that is what they are interested in. Forget about the fact that most of the English translations we have today take their lead from the Jerome's Latin Vulgate and are thus riddled with mistakes, the fact is many Christians are simply vindictive.
The fact is the scriptures are clear when studied closely with an open mind and heart, the judgments of God though terrible, are not for the purpose of returning evil for evil, but they are for the purpose of correction. God overcomes evil with Good, he does not return evil for evil.
I am denying the very existence of the mythological hell taught by Pagan Christianity and other false religions around the world.
Will God punish sin? Of course, look at what happened to Christ for us all ... Do i believe that we shall reap what we have sown, of course every action has a reaction and a consequence, it is the law of the universe. Do i believe that God will punish anybody for ever without end, of course not that is absolutely perverted and insane.
Are you denying that God is in fact the savior of all people as the scriptures clearly teach and command us to teach?
You go around saying that God is the savior of all people but most people will never be saved and expect any sane person to take you seriously.
That would be like me going around and telling people that i was the savior of all the people in a burning house but most of the people who were in that house died from the fire. Its simply ludicrous ...
@Ironmaw1776 No, I am not denying that God is the savior of all people. I just don't define "all people" the way you insist on defining it. I believe when you say "all men" and when the Bible says "all men" or "pas anthropos" in the Greek it means two different things.
Thus, I'm disagreeing with you, not with what the Bible says.
The Bible is clear that Jesus did not atone for all individuals. But rather, he atoned for men from every tribe, tongue, and nation. Hence "whole world".
OKandNOWwhat already posted this but i will repeat it again ...
"And He Himself is the propitiation [atonement] for our sins, AND NOT FOR OURS(believers) ONLY BUT ALSO FOR THE WHOLE WORLD." (1 John 2:2)
I understand what you believe, and i think you have been woefully deceived, I believed much like you do now for over 30 years before God called me out of that false religion.
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. Command and teach these things.
The above verse is completely clear that God is not only especially the savior of those that are believing, but also of all people who do not believe.
Now if Paul had said that God is NOT the savior of all people, but ONLY of those that believe ... Then you would have a case, but as it stands 1 Tim 4:10-11 among many many others proves beyond any shadow of doubt, for those who have ears to hear what the spirit is saying, The god in Christ is the savior of all, not only of a few.
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
Respond to this video... The fact is most Christian do not truly believe what the scriptures teach, but instead believe what the traditions of men say the bible teaches.
so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
1 Tim 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires(will have) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Of course most Christians believe Christ will fail ...
One thing is for certain, the true Gospel of the restitution of all things, otherwise knows as apocatastasis/universal reconciliation in Christ, or the gospel of the complete victory of Christ, does not limit either the power of the intent of the work of Christ of the Cross, as we know that God is the savior of all people, and will have all people to be saved. Christ died for our sin, and not only our sin, but also for the sin of the whole world, and all will be made alive in Christ.
@Ironmaw1776 So Christ was lying when he told the story about the rich man in hell who asked for a drop of water?
There goes Christ's credibility. You can throw your Bible away I guess. Christ lied numerous times by speaking about hell and a place where the worm doesn't die. If he's a liar, why trust him? He can't be God if he's a liar, as God cannot lie.
Of Course Christ was not lying. He WAS speaking a parable. Something most Christians seem to be woefully unaware of when they read it and interpret it literally.
And the Parable was about how the nation of Israel would be judged and cut off in 70 AD, at which time Israel would be trampled under the feet of the gentiles who would enter into the bosom of Abraham and take on the blessing of the promise ...
Yes, the people need more education about language and dialects and the warning in Revelation about how people who manipulate the scriptures like so many do today that they are headed for hell. There is a REASON why those scriptures shouldn't be written in someone's opinion about the scriptures!
Heb. 1:3: "When he HAD by himself PURGED our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." Christ expiated sins BEFORE the Ascension; they were erased from existence prior to that, it was an ACCOMPLISHED FACT. That is limited atonement. He told Mary not to touch Him in Jn. 20:17, but the women touched Him in Mat. 28:9; in that interim He performed the office of High Priest for God's elect (Ex. 29:4, Lev. 8:12, Lev. 16, 4 & 24, Num. 8:7 & 15, Heb. 7:26, Heb. 9:12 & 15 & 24 & 28).
L (limited [or, specific] atonement)--Heb. 1:3 (DBY): "Who...HAVING MADE [by himself] the purification of sins, set himself down on the right hand of the greatness on high." The expiation of sins was completed BEFORE the Ascension. Heb. 13:12, 20 (KJV): "Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. ...our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the SHEEP, through the blood of the everlasting covenant."
I think where a lot of you guys are hung up is the term 'Calvanism'. John Calvin didn't invent the doctrine he simply acknowledged it in the scriptures, in the fifth century , a heretic named Palagius proposed what we would call today 'hyper-arminianism' and the famous Theologian Augustine spent the remainder of his life refuting this erroneus teaching with the very doctrines of grace that the refomers including calvin adopted a 1000 years later.
To the Arminians - I would like to know how you interpret Eph 1:5 and Romans Chapter 9. The bible teaches that we are dead in sin and slaves to sin prior to salvation how does the arminian reconcile this with 'Free will' I mean how much 'Free will' does a dead slave have?? Salvation is wholly of God, the faith that you have is given by God. God gave you spiritual life which enabled you to make a decision for Christ. Charles Spurgeon has a great sermon on this called 'A defence of Calvanism'.
@MrThomasjpaul Just because it says all have sinned and fall short the glory of God doesn't mean that "all" is always used in that way in every instance. See, that's what people aren't realizing. And, the doctrines of grace are not fading away. The Bible teaches grace. The doctrines of grace are simply explaining what the Bible already says.
Why would any find the word "limited" limiting? I just don't understand it. The Bible also says that their is no shadow of turning in God. The Calvinist also imposes two wills on God, rather then one will. It also anthropomorphised God. Treats Him as though he were bound by time like us. God has only one eternal infinite will. It has no variation in it whatsoever. He wills in the same way towards all. We all just respond differently according to our own limited will.
I think we all can agree that the higest possible peak of morality is achieved when the greatest amount of good is bestowed upon the greatest amount of people. Any decrease in the amount of good or decrease in the amount of recipients results in a lessening in morality. This is why any attempt to describe god this way as the ultimate peak of morality is futile.
"His [Calvin's] religion was demonism. If ever man worshiped a false God, he did. The being described in his five points is ... a demon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no God at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin" (Works, Vol. iv., p. 363). -Thomas Jefferson
@greyswans "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites" –Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
....so lets not go quoting Jefferson to try to disprove some doctrine we dont like! Whitefield-calvinist Wesly-arminian they were friends!
@MrNoAvail I have no more time for doctrine or theology, nothing is sacred. I'm only interested in my pursuit of the truth, the God I know, and I don't see it in conservative christian ideology, I only feel oppression. So conversations about Calvinism and Arminianism are a complete waste of my time and energy. There you go.
To be a Christian is irresponsible behaviour because abdicating responsibility for their own sins and wanting Jesus to pay for their sins for them with his blood and suffering (which is not true anyway - is contemptuous and evil).
@B4mytyme the comment I left was supposed to lead someone to read from that part of scripture and find out that God's atonement is for all who would believe. However, not all wash their clothes in His blood
II Pet. 2:1: "There shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that BOUGHT them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." Deut. 32:6 (ESV): "Do you thus repay the Lord , you foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who CREATED you...?" Deut. 32:6: "Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath BOUGHT thee?" Mal. 2:10: "Have we not all one father? hath not one God CREATED us?"
II Pet. 2:1 (KJV): "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that BOUGHT them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." Deut. 32:6 (KJV): "Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath BOUGHT thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?" Mal. 2:10 (KJV): "Have we not all one father? hath not one God CREATED us?"
C: Why am I in the "predestined" line? Well, because that's what the Bible says. Rom 8:29 &30, Eph 1:5-11, and pretty much the whole chapter of Rom 9.
A: But don't you know that you have the "free choice" to pick and choose those things in the Bible that you do not want to believe in?
C: Oh, you mean like how Armenius didn't believe in substitutionary attonement?
A: You stupid idiot, %*&$!@! Heretic & *^%. How dare you cross my WILL!!!
If we look at the symbolism of blood and water on the day of atonement ceremony then we realise it represents the Spirit (eternal life) which Christ came to give. Jn 7:39.
Limited atonement, original sin etc are doctrines which show how Christianity cannot understand spiritual concepts like Rom 8:2 where we have 'sin and death' doctrines as the enemy of 'spirit of life' faith in God.
LIMITED Atonement? Consider 2 Peter 2:1: "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who BOUGHT THEM - bringing swift destruction on themselves." So here we see that these unbelievers, spreaders of heresies, were, nonetheless, ALSO "bought" by the "sovereign Lord," and yet were also slated for destruction for their unbelief.
I do believe Election from the foundation of the world as God calling and saving those he chose to save and those not elected will not be preselected to be dammed but allowing humanity to have their desire to hate and rebel against God. Even knowing some who disagree with me on Limited Atonement-seeing them passionately preachng the gospel of Christ very passionately. To bad so many against Calvinism attach a name of a practice to judge Calvinists with was originated by a Calvinist:Soul Winning
I really do not believe in Limited Atonement. I do believe it is limited by our rebellion but definetley not in the same vien. For me, I tend to look at it this way-not judging those who authored this(really not sure what they knew) as I saw this as opposing to what Armenians taught. For me, I see this as a bit flawed as if a teaching is false-this does not make the opposite of a false doctrine correct or right.
Now when Christ died He also gave gifts of the Spirit,innate wisdom and sanctification are these virtues also upon men everyone? Except they don't believe? .So Christ is limited in applying the applications of His death by mere mortal men of choice.So the only one limited in limited atonement is Christ Himself because He cannot apply Himself until all men make Him completely active.Nonsense Christ Atonement is effective to God always and therefore effective only to whom He chose
Right on! Universal salvation is the only one that answers both sides of this debate. But that is considered heresy buy most, so they will not even go there.
@123qth I see the same thing. Universal reconciliation is the only understanding which satisfies both God's mercy and judgment, and the only theology that is truly systematic from Genesis through Revelation without picking and choosing proof texts.
His explanation of the use of the word "ALL" in "All the world" quote is very poor. He uses logic and common language instead of getting into what the word "ALL" means in other places in the bible to give a clue as to what is meant in this scripture. He doesn't even talk about what Greek word was used.
I don't have a personal opinion on Arminianism vs Calvinism but this is a poor explanation.
I just kept waiting for him to get into the biblical meaning of the word. He never did.
Cont.To describe that scripture a little further in Romans 9 we find out that there is an opposing factor to the salvation of all men despite God desiring it. It is God himself, God loves himself more than he loves man or he would have forgiven without Christ, God chooses himself over man for his own glory, and this is why men go to hell. Gods glory is more important to him because it would be unholy to put man before himself, this is ultimately why Gods desire in 1tim2:4 does not come to pass
Cont... If you remove Limited atonement from the doctrines of grace scripture balances out perfectly, it just takes patience and seeking God, for instance in""For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:3-4)" This is Gods commanding will for us to pray for all because were not to participate in Gods sovereign will, but only to know it. Limited Atonement destroys calvinists credibility
I think if John Calvin was born today he wouldn't be a Calvinist(I read his atonement sermon and he believed Christ died for all). You watch the whole doctrines of grace video and it all is in perfect alignment to scripture until you hit limited atonement. Its very clear Christ died for all in scripture, there is no doubt about that and immense effort to get around it, and as long as doctrines of grace believers cling to that there debates with Arminians will be pointless.
And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.
And he that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean: and after that he shall come into the camp, and shall tarry abroad out of his tent seven days. "
The leprous man (sinner cleansed by Christ, the high priest) must then wash his OWN clothes.
The Calvinist seems to forget that the letters written to the 7 churches in Revelation were to TRUE REBORN CHRISTIANS. Unfortunately being reborn is enough, but HOLDING ON to our faith is OUR job. Christ does not force us to maintain our faith. This is why the Bible says over and over "IF WE KEEP THE FAITH"
The letter to Sardis calls most of the Christians in that local community DEAD. Yet Christ tells THEM to strengthen what remains! We DO have responsibility! We cannot be passive!
Since the fall of Adam we have had complete free will WHOLLY and COMPLETELY independent of the will of God.
Leviticus 14 explains we DO have some responsibility in our cleansing. Christ initially cleanses us of our impure heart and all we do in that is receive.
Have you forgotten the manner in which the temple was cleansed in II Chronicles? If you do not understand the connection between the spirit/Holiest Place, the mind/Holy Place and the body/the outer court you will not understand.
Eric said the very opposite thing in Hell's Bells - because of our spiritual dimension, because we are spiritual beings, we seek to worship. And when we don't know God, we worship idols. Eric taught me that five years through Hell's Bells, why does he claim that the human spirit is dead? I can't think of a verse in the Bible that says that a man's spirit is dead apart from God. This lack of biblical support stands out, whatever accusations you throw at the Arminians.
@AsTheDeer i have a few examples for you,in genesis 2 God told Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because he would die,so either God is a liar or Adam died spiritually, Colossians 2:13 is another example and also:Ephesians 2:1,Ephesians 2:5 ,Matthew 8:22..and those aren't even all of them
@stretch2525 1. This is amazing. How did Adam live for 900 years without his spirit? Spirit means breath. 2. And how do the lost people communicate with the evil spirits? Without using their spirits because their spirits are dead? 3. The only specific thing God has said is that we are DEAD IN OUR SINS, not that our spirits are dead. None of your passages mentions a dead spirit. To be dead in your sins means to live without the knowledge of God and to be doomed to hell.
@AsTheDeer spiritual death doesn't mean that your living without the spirit its just means your living by the flesh, not that it literally phisically died,its just like when the bible talks about hell as the second death or eternal death,its not refering to the way we die where we fall unconscious and never come back,and on the other hand even if there wasnt spiritual death and i know there is,those verses say we are dead in our sins and someone dead can't wake themselves and help their self out
@stretch2525 actually Adam & Eve did indeed die literally "in the day" they ate. to God a thousand years is as a day, and a day as a thousand years. the record shows Adam died at less than 1000 years old (930 to be exact) so he died "in the day" as God said he would.
I feel sorry to interject on something that was as long as a month or more ago, but I feel I must.
When we speak of 1000 years as a day to God, we understand him to be transcendent of time. That is, he is not limited by time and further, he has all time and history laid out before him.
When we speak of Adam's death that very day, we should quickly understand it as his spiritual death, not his physical. He did indeed fall dead into sin that very day though he died much later.
very true @blueskiesjazz,also in the bible when it speaks about receiving eternal life or in different instances when it speaks about being quickened John 5:21 for example,it speaks about something that happens when your still alive,so its definitely speaking about something spiritual and not physical,even though at other times the bible does speak about physical resurrection of course but not in those contexts,but yea i like the way you put that,i couldn't have put it any that well,praise God
Just a comment -- the arbitrary selection concept of Calvinism results not only in limited-Gospel it results in watering down the Word of God itself - for in 1John 2:2 we find that God is clear on the point that Christ is the "Atoning Sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the Whole World" (NIV).
The Calvinist model basically claims that this is over-marketing on God's part.
@CervantHrt Bob, if you watch the video again and apply the "figurative language" principle to 1 John 2:2 it will make more sense.
Is John LITERALLY saying that Christ has atoned for the sins of every individual on the entire planet? Well, is everyone saved? No. Well, then that cannot possibly be what John is saying. Instead, John is FIGURATIVELY saying Jesus has atoned not just for the sins of Jews, but for the sins of Romans, and of Greeks, and Americans and the whole world.
@youthpastorJAC 1 John 2:2 states the the "Atoning Sacrifice" was completed at the cross for all of mankind. That much is in fact true. It was for all of mankind - the whole world. 1John 4 stated that Jesus was sent as 'the savior of the World". But Lev 16 makes it clear that BOTH the atoning sacrifice AND the high priestly (of Heb 8-9) ministy are required for the full context of "Atonement".
Yes, praise be to God and His Providence, because It was only the day before I posted that that I read Loraine Boettner's exposition of that in one of his books.
@blueskiesjazz yes it was his spiritual death as well but it was also his physical death that was being spoken of in a prophetic manner and he did indeed die in the day according to scripture. but you are entitled to your opinion.
Lets not Limit His Atonement, He gave himself as a ransom for ALL (1 Tim. 2:5-6), and bore the sins of ALL MEN (Isaiah 53:6), and tasted Death for EVERYONE (Hebres 2:9), He takes away the sin of the WORLD (John 1:29), ALL MEN are invited into salvation (Matthew 11:28-30), WHOEVER believes in him may have ETERNAL LIFE (John 3:14-15), in Christ, God was reconciling the WORLD to himself (2 Cor. 5:18-19), He indeed is the Savior of ALL people (1 Tim 4:10 ) and of the WORLD (John 4:42).
L (limited, [or, definite] atonement)--Jn. 10:11, 15 (NASB): "The good shepherd lays down His life for the SHEEP..... I lay down My life for the SHEEP." Rom. 8:32-33 (NASB): "He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for US ALL, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against GOD'S ELECT? God is the one who justifies." Eph. 5:25 (NASB): "Husbands, love your wives, JUST AS Christ also loved the CHURCH and gave Himself up for HER."
L (limited [or, definite] atonement)--Jn. 10:11, 15: "The good shepherd giveth his life for the SHEEP.....I lay down my life for the SHEEP." Rom. 8:32-33: "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for US ALL, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth." Eph. 5:25: "Husbands, love your wives, EVEN AS Christ also loved the CHURCH, and gave himself for IT."
Sir, if you're accusing me of unbelief, you would do well to heed the Scriptures: Mat. 7:1-2 (NASB): "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." Jas. 4:12 (NASB): "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?"
@briancook007 - on the contrary, I was referring to the fact that you used the bible to show the truth of limited atonement and you were spamed for it.
Who was satisfied in Atonement but the Nature of God by Christ.If He was satisfied ,how can man have the power to make His satisfaction mute?Unbelief makes Christ not only ineffectual to the unbeliever if Christ died for all,but also to God and thats impossible.Christ died to satisfy God and once satisfied He cannot be dis satisfied,Christ died for the elect.!
I have not seen much of the old timers at all... of cource i don't keep up with all the alieses.... and i still think that they ought to do away with the comment ratings...
@ele12957returns -Of course the resurrection is beneficial to the faith as it is the confirmation of everything that Christ accomplished. But it was the shedding of blood that perfected them who were set apart, the resurection confirms what the cross accomplishes...
"Soldier, not every aspect was accomplished at the cross."-ele12597
Heb 10:10 - By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:14 - For by one offering he hath PERFECTED FOREVER them that are sanctified.
Did Jesus offering perfect the entire world... no... only them who are set apart... and perfected means completed... once again atonement is only limited to those set apart..
there is no passage that says God had to reconcile himself to the world... reconcilliation is not a two way street, God reconciled the world to himself... one way, and by the way, if you take the passage in context, the world, and all are words limited to believers... not to everyone universally...this is seen also in romans 4, for only those who are justified by faith have no imputation of sins.
Rom. 5:18-19 (George Berry interlinear translation): "So then as by one offence [it was] towards all men to condemnation, so also by one ACCOMPLISHED righteousness towards all men to justification of life. For as by the disobedience of the one man THE many were constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one THE many shall be constituted righteous." This passage references those whose salvation has been accomplished, THE many (cf. Mat. 20:28, Jn. 19:30), God's elect (Rom. 8:33).
L (limited [or, definite] atonement)--Jn. 10:11, 15: "The good shepherd giveth his life for the SHEEP.....I lay down my life for the SHEEP." Rom. 8:32-33: "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for US ALL, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth." Eph. 5:25: "Husbands, love your wives, EVEN AS Christ also loved the CHURCH, and gave himself for IT."
You don't have to do a terrible amount of research to see that every aspect of salvation is accomplished at the cross...
including reconciliation... A god that "reconciles himself to the world" and then tosses the people he reconciled to into hell is not the God of the bible...
reconciliation is the ACT by which Christians are saved.
When Man is reconciled to God, ALL things that cause him to be at enmity are
settled and fellowship and harmony between God and man are restored.. that is the essence of salvation. Every verse where the word reconciliation is used in the Bible, including the one you quote out of context, refers to believers only, and is not universal.
Romans 5:10 if reconciliation leads to salvation, and everyone is reconciled to God, then according to you explanation, everyone will be lead to salvation.
the problem is that you fail to see that reconciliation and salvation are the
same...perhaps you should invest in a good dictionary... and look up the meaning of reconciliation...
as for whosoever, i challenge you to obtain a Westcot and Hort New testament manuscript... interlinear if you need it and look for your self. the TWO words translated whosoever are translated, all the...we want over this before. i encourage you to check for yourself...
the word none has no limiter, it means none. World... Gk. "cosmos" has several meanings according to the context of the verse, same with the word All. if there is a limiter in the passage then them "all and world" are Limited to the context.
Lets use a simple example in Romans 1:7 Paul addressed the letter to "ALL" that be in Rome. but the word "All" has a limiter in the same verse... "beloved of God, called to be saints." The limiter makes, "ALL that be in Rome" refer to just believers.
Reading a text and applying it to given situations is not extreme.. when Paul
said there is none thaT understandeth ans none seeketh after God, he means NONE. That is what the text says. plain and simple Because the natural man can not understand or seek after God, he can not make a freewill decision to come to a God he does not understand or seek after. how simple can it be?
Because of this BIBLE fact, EVERY time you state a passage that shows someone exercising SAVING Faith,
you presume upon the text that the subject is exercising Free will, When the Bible is clear that he can not. (Romans 3:11) ..and repeating this error will never make it correct... our conversation has become redundant Every query you have posted has been answered with proper biblical exegesis, yet you either refuse to concede to your error, or you are blind to truth either way , have spent much to much time on this thread, and neglecting of other responsibilities outside the realm of youtube
must be going, feel free to repeat your queries, perhaps someone else will take up where I leave off... as for me, i see a dawkins video in the related video box... time to greet some atheists...
Regeneration is not the Holy Spirit moving in... it is the Holy Spirit reviving mans dead spirit and giving him a new heart... so he a can accept the gospel... we covered this. Being born again is a prerequisite to seeing the Kingdom of God... the entire passage of John 3 refers to the action of the Holy Spirit on his elect... we covered this. John 5 verse 25 when taken in context refers to the physical resurrection V.28 (IN THEIR GRAVES) we covered this...
The facts still hold, a man in his "sin- natured" state can not understand or seek after God -Romans 3:11, They cannot receive or know the things of the Spirit of God. -1 Cor. 2:14 They can't please God.- Hebrews 11:6. Because of this They CANNOT make a free-will choice to come to God or Christ. God must DRAW them.- John 6:44 They must be Born again John 3 Before you can acknowledge God's love for man, you must consider man's condition, Unregenerate man is in no position to choose God
the loving kindness of God= regeneration... come on ele, how much more loving can God be than to take a condemned man who can not understand, or seek after God...Romans 3
and regenerate him so he can understand the gospel? how much more can he commend his love toward us... He regenerates those who are spiritually dead so that can comprehend the good news...
Ele i agree, you can tell a sinner God loves them, and we are to tell everyone of God's love, but once again, it is only those who God Chooses who will be capable of receiving. remember A person must be born again to See the kingdom of God, and apart from that they can not understand or seek God... Romans 3
ele, don't be a goof... you know that the word fear, means reverence... give me a break.... as for the demoniac in Mark 5, Are you implying that The Holy Spirit can not Regenerate a man Filled with demons? demons trembled at the mere sight of Jesus, but the Holy Spirit has no power to regenerate a man filled with demons...I see... The Holy Spirit has less power than demons... good one ele...
Cornelius was a devout man that feared God,. Stated at the beginning as a description..Acts 10:1-2, unregenerate men do not fear God.(Romans 3) Cornelius feared God- He was regenerated, and received the gospel...
It is not a copout to compare scripture with scripture to see a mans spiritual status...Romans 3 says he unregenerate people can not understand or seek after God...so anyone responding positively to the gospel must be doing so because they have been regenerated. because if they wern't the gospel would be foolishness to him. ALL saved were Chosen and Elect before the Foundation of the cosmos...
Anyone who was Saved in the bible, was ELECT before the foundation of the World,
@ele12957returns -Acts 10:2-[Cornilius] "A devout man, and one that FEARED GOD with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
"There is no fear of God before their eyes." his capacity to recognize spiritual things shows that he is regenerate... the holy spirit odiously prepared his heart to hear the gospel, and God arranged for him to hear the gospel. He was one of the elect before the foundation of the world...1 peter 1
Holy Spirit... Man I need to take some typing lessons .
So now that you see that according to scripture Cornelius Was prepared for receiving the Gospel by the Holy Spirit, In what way am taking Romans 3 to an extreme, i am simply stating what it says, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh After God." It is a matter of taking scripture for what it says... not pulling it out of context, or reading into it something that is not there... just simple read and heed...
@ele12957returns- Ele, you are attacking the verse with a presupposition that man can make a free will move toward god when Romans 3 and John 3 says he can not.... You need to realize that anyone and everyone who comes to God does so because he first came to them...Barring that you are fighting with scripture, and repeating error
@ele12957returns the bible is clear that Faith and repentance is impossible unless the Holy Spirit acts First... Romans 3 and John 3.. Deal with these texts... how can you repent when you cannot understand or seek god... you can not...
All those who are not born again, hate the Light... (Jesus) further, Those who are regenerate have no sins imputed to them... ie. they are already saved... Romans 4 saya that those who are JUSTIFIED by faith do not have Sins inputed to them... Justification and reconciliation are the same thing...
unredeemed are not reconciled to God because they are still under gods wrath. John 3:36...2 Thess. 1:8
Something needs to be made clear to Arminian's here. For that I'll quote D.A. Carson:
"Every view of the Atonement “limits” it in some way, save for the view of the unqualified universalist. For example, the Arminian limits the Atonement by regarding it as merely potential for everyone; the Calvinist regards the Atonement as definite and effective (i.e., those for whom Christ died will certainly be saved), but limits this effectiveness to the elect."
Keruaran 6 days ago
@Keruaran , Can you explain please who are those elect?
jundurias 2 days ago
@jundurias
Everyone who believes in (that is, believes, has put their faith and trust in) Jesus Christ.
Keruaran 2 days ago
All means all and that's all that all means
Arguing the meaning of words only goes to show that weakness of their position.
domokunroxj00 1 month ago
all means all why you have to find a definition to that kind of word xd
boricua796 2 months ago
If i could sit in front of my computer everyday I would watch this video ALL the time.......No I wouldn't!!! It's figurative speech!! ;)
schoolisexpensive 4 months ago
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
motibi 5 months ago
All of these brave but futile attempts to argue against the clear statements of Scripture:Jn. 3:16,1 Jn. 2:2,Rev. 22:17,1 Tim. 2:4, 2 Pet. 3:9).Of course "all" has other meanings than every person, BUT no Calvinist has shown that "all" means less than all in these texts above.They are not really engaging with the texts or their contexts, especially 1 Jn. 2:2.
searchthescriptures7 5 months ago
Comment removed
all4Hisgloryalone 5 months ago
The "Truth" of the doctrines of TULIP can only revealed by the Holy Spirit and therefor cannot be taught by men. You can only teach when the students have the ability to understand and therefore any strong defense of the doctrines of TULIP against the ignorance of men is futile and causes the opposition to become more combative.
We share or tell the Gospel, we do not teach nor do we sustain it because that is the ministry of the Holy Spirit
JesusNonEnviromental 5 months ago
1 John 2:2 for you. Q1) Jesus IS the propitiation for OUR sins. What does this mean? Q2 Do you apply this same propitiation to people who are in hell and who are going to hell since the verse says the He IS (not potentionally but IS) the propitiation for the sins of the whole world? Q3 If it is applied to those in hell are you then saying that He isn't the propitation for their sin of unbelief?
JesusMakeUpMyDyinBed 6 months ago
So "ALL" don't mean ALL? And "Whole" doesn't mean "Whole"? These people believe Calvin over the BIBLE. The BIble teaches that Jesus BOUGHT/REDEEMED/DIED FOR even false prophets who will be destroyed. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
martinthezman 9 months ago
@martinthezman If He redeemed and bought all people no one would go to hell, now you have universalism
.
MrNoAvail 6 months ago
@MrNoAvail The price was paid for all men. The Bible is clear on it, he is the propitiation not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world. But that BLOOD must be applied, the sacrifice must be accepted by GOD in behalf of the people. You remember the Day of Atonement? The Lord's Goat was sacrificed for ALL of Israel, but who benefited from the sacrifice? To whom was the merits applied? To those who believed, repented and fasted on that day. That is teaching us about the Lamb of God
martinthezman 6 months ago
@martinthezman Are you saying that we have to do something to give the Cross it's power? Please tell me that isn't what you're saying
JesusMakeUpMyDyinBed 6 months ago in playlist Definite Atonement
@JesusMakeUpMyDyinBed "Do something to give the cross its power"? The cross has all the power to take away all the sins of the whole world. But only those who BELIEVE UPON the Lord shall receive the forgiveness of sins. The merits of the cross is only given / applied to those who believe upon Christ. Calvinists MUST teach that the merits are already applied to the elect, thus they are saved from conception. Study the Day of Atonement, and see WHO received the merits for this universal sacrifice
martinthezman 6 months ago
@martinthezman The atonement of Christ saves all for whom it was intended martin. Jesus gave His life for the sheep and the sheep hear His voice and follow HIm and He gives them eternal life. But there are those who aren't His sheep and they don't believe because they aren't His sheep as Jesus told the Jews in John chapter 10. This is for whom the atonement was intended.
JesusMakeUpMyDyinBed 6 months ago
@JesusMakeUpMyDyinBed Christ being omniscience would certainly KNOW who would benefit from his Atonement; but the blood of Christ was shed for the whole world. 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world... This is a BIBLE VERSE that says the same thing I said... YOU DO KNOW that some people Jesus died for will GO TO HELL? 2 Peter 2:1 ... even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
martinthezman 6 months ago
@CantStopTheHopp Read Howie47 comment, he said it well. To take John 3:16 and say thats "limited" atonement is completely wrong and twisting scripture out of its context. It means what it says, whosoever believeth should not perish but have everlasting life. Christ shed His blood for ALL but whosoever believes will obtain everlasting life. Thats not limiting it at all thats just what it says. Christ dying only for the elect is not only limiting it but its blasphemy.
TheKJVberean 10 months ago
I guess this is what happens when people become over educated. They get confussed. I suppose that's why Jesus said little children shall enter into the kngdom before the highly educated pharsees! Salvation is offered to all men, "whosoever" will come and appropriate it, (buy pure gold, sell all to buy the field with the hid treasure); shall have eternal life. Those who try to earn it by their own goodness or good works, will be rejected. Just like Cain was.
Howie47 10 months ago
@bullmoose1969 So thats what "whosoever believes" means? The spirit of calvinism has blinded you, taking scripture out of context. You calvinists have to twist scripture (like john316) 7 ways to sunday to make it fit your fatalistic theology. Your heology came from man and how man "interpreted" the bible. If you just allow the bible to interpret itself you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
TheKJVberean 10 months ago
@TheKJVberean I noticed you didn't attempt to prove bullmoose1969 was wrong. How does the context of John 3 PROVE your view and not his?
CantStopTheHopp 10 months ago
This video is just arguing over "the traditions of men" and what they taught back when. This video shows the foolishness of calvinism, ALL means ALL, WORLD means WORLD. take it at face value people. The Bible interprets itself, calvinists can take their intellectualism and stuff it. The bible is simple even so that little children can understand. Calvinism is doctrines of devils. @TheFootballguy1010 your exactly right, every calvinist that I know are full of arrogance, rude, and full of pride.
TheKJVberean 11 months ago
@TheKJVberean You take Berean as your name. Well, that means that you should search the scriptures to see whether these things are so.The meanings of universal terms in the bible are determined by the context of the passage they are in. The context of John 3:16 is the choice of the Holy Spirit in who he regenerates,the blindness of man before he is regenerated,God's plan to save not only jews but also gentiles and the condemnation of the reprobate. It is not an evangelistic verse at all.
bullmoose1969 10 months ago
Trust the TULIP to be on top of the Bible in the first shot....
Brightstar27 11 months ago
I will NEVER be a calvinist? Every single calvinist I have met has been so rude and arrogant. I always ask this question to a calvinist, what makes you more qualified to be "saved" or to be "elect" than the unelect? This is exactly the theology that Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist church teaches. There is no Hope in calvinism. It doesn't say anywhere that I have to be a calvinist in order to be a Christian in the Bible. I am so saved through Jesus's sacrifice!!
TheFootballguy1010 11 months ago
Um, there is another way besides "Calvinism" or "Armianism." So glad that God has preserved the Holy Spirit-inspired and infallible Word of God. I need no teacher, but God, in His Spirit, to show me the Truth.
ps. I am "offended" by the view of "limited atonement," and by the view that a born again person can again be brought to death in spirit. Please, read your bibles.
wawabbit 1 year ago
Bro I think you used several verses out of context and if you'd like I can PM you to sort them out. It would take too many comments since you can only make 500 characters or less, lol
skalapunk 1 year ago
Luke 2:1- "world"=oikumene; 1 John 2:2- "world'=kosmos
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are you ways My ways," says YHWH
"And He Himself is the propitiation [atonement] for our sins, AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY BUT ALSO FOR THE WHOLE WORLD." (1 John 2:2)
"Whosoever WILL come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." (Mark 8:34)
"Without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5)
OKandNOWwhat 1 year ago
"And He Himself is the propitiation [atonement] for our sins, AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY BUT ALSO FOR THE WHOLE WORLD." (1 John 2:2)
OKandNOWwhat 1 year ago
I do NOT believe in "lose your salvation"(herersy and blasphemy) but calvinism= devil worship
barrypatrickius 1 year ago
Also, the idea that God created most of humanity to torture them for ever is not only ridiculous, its demonic.
The doctrine of eternal torment is itself a doctrine of demons, but the calvanist position that God predestined most of humanity to be tortured for ever is even more diabolical.
"As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@Ironmaw1776 According to you, Jesus blasphemes God and teaches a doctrine of demons. Jesus spoke about hell, and God's wrath, and the condemnation of unbelievers more than he spoke about heaven.
skalapunk 1 year ago
@skalapunk
Jesus never once mentioned the word hell, that is an old English term, and Jesus did not speak English of any kind. He did speak of Sheol and hades which are the grave, and of Gehenna(the valley f the sons of Hinnom), a burning trash pit that was just outside the walls of Jerusalem at that time.
And the idea that Jesus spoke of hell ore than he did of heaven is entirely erroneous.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
It is really funny when people say that Jesus spoke more of hell than he did of Heaven. Do yourself a favor, get a concordance and actually do a word study on how many time Christ spoke of "hell" and compare it to every time he mentions heaven(kingdom of heaven, etc.), before you say that again ... Save yourself the embarrassment.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@Ironmaw1776 Do yourself a favor and recognize your logical fallacies my friend :) I never said that he literally spoke the English word "hell" (of course, that's absurd, he didn't speak English!), I said he spoke of the concept of hell, God's wrath, and punishment more than he did (the place of) heaven.
skalapunk 1 year ago
@skalapunk ... I'll do it for you then okay? The word Gehenna is found in the whole new testament, that is all the gospels and every other book of the new testament together, 9 times. Thats 7 times in matthew, 3 times in mark, 1 time in luke and in james.
The word hades is found only found 11 times in the entire new testament, 2 times in mat.,and 2 times in luke.
So altogether christ mentioned hell(hades, gehenna) 15 times .He mentioned heaven almost 100 times in matt. alone. Do the math ...
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@Ironmaw1776 For the last time. My point has never been the # of times Jesus said the word hell, but rather, the concept and idea of hell, he spoke on them more times.
skalapunk 1 year ago
@skalapunk
And for the last time, you are wrong.
Okay i already showed how many times Christ spoke of geheena and hades compared to heaven. Now let us look at how many times Christ mentioned wrath in the gospels.
Wrath - 6 times in all the gospels, judgments is found almost 30 times in all four gospels, condemnation is found 3 times in the gospels ...
Again heaven is found almost 100 times in the book of Mathew alone. It is obvious that Christ spoke far more of the kingdom of heaven.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@skalapunk
It is also obvious that hell fire and brimstone Christians who cherish the idea of everlasting torture of most of humanity as being righteous justice simply see Christ speaking more about hell and condemnation and wrath because that is what they are interested in. Forget about the fact that most of the English translations we have today take their lead from the Jerome's Latin Vulgate and are thus riddled with mistakes, the fact is many Christians are simply vindictive.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@skalapunk
The fact is the scriptures are clear when studied closely with an open mind and heart, the judgments of God though terrible, are not for the purpose of returning evil for evil, but they are for the purpose of correction. God overcomes evil with Good, he does not return evil for evil.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@Ironmaw1776 Are you denying that God will punish sin in hell my friend? What is your true motive here? Are you a universalist?
skalapunk 1 year ago
@skalapunk
I am denying the very existence of the mythological hell taught by Pagan Christianity and other false religions around the world.
Will God punish sin? Of course, look at what happened to Christ for us all ... Do i believe that we shall reap what we have sown, of course every action has a reaction and a consequence, it is the law of the universe. Do i believe that God will punish anybody for ever without end, of course not that is absolutely perverted and insane.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@skalapunk
Are you denying that God is in fact the savior of all people as the scriptures clearly teach and command us to teach?
You go around saying that God is the savior of all people but most people will never be saved and expect any sane person to take you seriously.
That would be like me going around and telling people that i was the savior of all the people in a burning house but most of the people who were in that house died from the fire. Its simply ludicrous ...
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@Ironmaw1776 No, I am not denying that God is the savior of all people. I just don't define "all people" the way you insist on defining it. I believe when you say "all men" and when the Bible says "all men" or "pas anthropos" in the Greek it means two different things.
Thus, I'm disagreeing with you, not with what the Bible says.
The Bible is clear that Jesus did not atone for all individuals. But rather, he atoned for men from every tribe, tongue, and nation. Hence "whole world".
skalapunk 1 year ago
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@skalapunk
OKandNOWwhat already posted this but i will repeat it again ...
"And He Himself is the propitiation [atonement] for our sins, AND NOT FOR OURS(believers) ONLY BUT ALSO FOR THE WHOLE WORLD." (1 John 2:2)
I understand what you believe, and i think you have been woefully deceived, I believed much like you do now for over 30 years before God called me out of that false religion.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@skalapunk
1 Tim 4:10 is clear that God is not ONLY the savior of those that believe, but especially(cheifly/even more so) of those that believe.
1 Tim 4:10-11
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. Command and teach these things.
The above verse is completely clear that God is not only especially the savior of those that are believing, but also of all people who do not believe.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@skalapunk
Now if Paul had said that God is NOT the savior of all people, but ONLY of those that believe ... Then you would have a case, but as it stands 1 Tim 4:10-11 among many many others proves beyond any shadow of doubt, for those who have ears to hear what the spirit is saying, The god in Christ is the savior of all, not only of a few.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@skalapunk
Psalm 145:9
The LORD is good to all, and his mercy is over all that he has made.
Psa 22:27
All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,
Rev 5:13
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@skalapunk
Phl 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Jhn 12:32
But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
Respond to this video... The fact is most Christian do not truly believe what the scriptures teach, but instead believe what the traditions of men say the bible teaches.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@Ironmaw1776 Agreed. Half of them don't even read it.
djdanaman 1 year ago
@skalapunk
The fact is most Christian do not truly believe what the scriptures teach, but instead believe what the traditions of men say the bible teaches.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@skalapunk
For instance the bible teaches the word of God(Christ) will accomplish whatever God desires.
Isaiah 55:11
so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
1 Tim 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires(will have) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Of course most Christians believe Christ will fail ...
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
One thing is for certain, the true Gospel of the restitution of all things, otherwise knows as apocatastasis/universal reconciliation in Christ, or the gospel of the complete victory of Christ, does not limit either the power of the intent of the work of Christ of the Cross, as we know that God is the savior of all people, and will have all people to be saved. Christ died for our sin, and not only our sin, but also for the sin of the whole world, and all will be made alive in Christ.
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
@Ironmaw1776 So Christ was lying when he told the story about the rich man in hell who asked for a drop of water?
There goes Christ's credibility. You can throw your Bible away I guess. Christ lied numerous times by speaking about hell and a place where the worm doesn't die. If he's a liar, why trust him? He can't be God if he's a liar, as God cannot lie.
So Christianity is a false religion.
skalapunk 1 year ago
@skalapunk
Of Course Christ was not lying. He WAS speaking a parable. Something most Christians seem to be woefully unaware of when they read it and interpret it literally.
And the Parable was about how the nation of Israel would be judged and cut off in 70 AD, at which time Israel would be trampled under the feet of the gentiles who would enter into the bosom of Abraham and take on the blessing of the promise ...
You really should research the issue more ...
Ironmaw1776 1 year ago
Yes, the people need more education about language and dialects and the warning in Revelation about how people who manipulate the scriptures like so many do today that they are headed for hell. There is a REASON why those scriptures shouldn't be written in someone's opinion about the scriptures!
Licmycat 1 year ago
Heb. 1:3: "When he HAD by himself PURGED our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." Christ expiated sins BEFORE the Ascension; they were erased from existence prior to that, it was an ACCOMPLISHED FACT. That is limited atonement. He told Mary not to touch Him in Jn. 20:17, but the women touched Him in Mat. 28:9; in that interim He performed the office of High Priest for God's elect (Ex. 29:4, Lev. 8:12, Lev. 16, 4 & 24, Num. 8:7 & 15, Heb. 7:26, Heb. 9:12 & 15 & 24 & 28).
Calvinist007 1 year ago
L (limited [or, specific] atonement)--Heb. 1:3 (DBY): "Who...HAVING MADE [by himself] the purification of sins, set himself down on the right hand of the greatness on high." The expiation of sins was completed BEFORE the Ascension. Heb. 13:12, 20 (KJV): "Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. ...our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the SHEEP, through the blood of the everlasting covenant."
Calvinist007 1 year ago 2
It all sounds like mind-twisting theology.
FUCKyourGODmyth 1 year ago
I think where a lot of you guys are hung up is the term 'Calvanism'. John Calvin didn't invent the doctrine he simply acknowledged it in the scriptures, in the fifth century , a heretic named Palagius proposed what we would call today 'hyper-arminianism' and the famous Theologian Augustine spent the remainder of his life refuting this erroneus teaching with the very doctrines of grace that the refomers including calvin adopted a 1000 years later.
jofandkerstin 1 year ago
To the Arminians - I would like to know how you interpret Eph 1:5 and Romans Chapter 9. The bible teaches that we are dead in sin and slaves to sin prior to salvation how does the arminian reconcile this with 'Free will' I mean how much 'Free will' does a dead slave have?? Salvation is wholly of God, the faith that you have is given by God. God gave you spiritual life which enabled you to make a decision for Christ. Charles Spurgeon has a great sermon on this called 'A defence of Calvanism'.
jofandkerstin 1 year ago
@jofandkerstin Sounds good. I agree with everything said. Just remember though, spell Calvanism as Calvinism. Don't make us Calvinists look bad. lol
blicksflicks 1 year ago
Wow! and you call this sound bible interpretation.
well, then we may conclude not all have sinned after all according to Romans; applying your silly principles of 'interpretation.
Please read your Bibles more often before the Lord rather than Calvin and/or his enamoured followers.
Calvinism is fading out anyway.. Praise God for that.
hey, why don't you check the following site. You'll do yourself a favour reading something balanced for once
middletownbiblechurch
God bless
MrThomasjpaul 1 year ago
@MrThomasjpaul Just because it says all have sinned and fall short the glory of God doesn't mean that "all" is always used in that way in every instance. See, that's what people aren't realizing. And, the doctrines of grace are not fading away. The Bible teaches grace. The doctrines of grace are simply explaining what the Bible already says.
blicksflicks 1 year ago
Why would any find the word "limited" limiting? I just don't understand it. The Bible also says that their is no shadow of turning in God. The Calvinist also imposes two wills on God, rather then one will. It also anthropomorphised God. Treats Him as though he were bound by time like us. God has only one eternal infinite will. It has no variation in it whatsoever. He wills in the same way towards all. We all just respond differently according to our own limited will.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
I think we all can agree that the higest possible peak of morality is achieved when the greatest amount of good is bestowed upon the greatest amount of people. Any decrease in the amount of good or decrease in the amount of recipients results in a lessening in morality. This is why any attempt to describe god this way as the ultimate peak of morality is futile.
danielkyleh 1 year ago
"His [Calvin's] religion was demonism. If ever man worshiped a false God, he did. The being described in his five points is ... a demon of malignant spirit. It would be more pardonable to believe in no God at all, than to blaspheme him by the atrocious attributes of Calvin" (Works, Vol. iv., p. 363). -Thomas Jefferson
greyswans 1 year ago
@greyswans "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites" –Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
....so lets not go quoting Jefferson to try to disprove some doctrine we dont like! Whitefield-calvinist Wesly-arminian they were friends!
MrNoAvail 6 months ago
@MrNoAvail I have no more time for doctrine or theology, nothing is sacred. I'm only interested in my pursuit of the truth, the God I know, and I don't see it in conservative christian ideology, I only feel oppression. So conversations about Calvinism and Arminianism are a complete waste of my time and energy. There you go.
greyswans 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
To be a Christian is irresponsible behaviour because abdicating responsibility for their own sins and wanting Jesus to pay for their sins for them with his blood and suffering (which is not true anyway - is contemptuous and evil).
zakuk77 1 year ago
many are called, few are chosen
krononomikon 1 year ago
@krononomikon this idea comes from elitism. everyone wants to feel special.
B4mytyme 1 year ago
@B4mytyme the comment I left was supposed to lead someone to read from that part of scripture and find out that God's atonement is for all who would believe. However, not all wash their clothes in His blood
krononomikon 1 year ago
II Pet. 2:1: "There shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that BOUGHT them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." Deut. 32:6 (ESV): "Do you thus repay the Lord , you foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who CREATED you...?" Deut. 32:6: "Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath BOUGHT thee?" Mal. 2:10: "Have we not all one father? hath not one God CREATED us?"
Calvinist007 1 year ago
II Pet. 2:1 (KJV): "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that BOUGHT them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." Deut. 32:6 (KJV): "Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath BOUGHT thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?" Mal. 2:10 (KJV): "Have we not all one father? hath not one God CREATED us?"
Calvinist007 1 year ago 2
Typical Calvinist and Armenian discussion:
C: Why am I in the "predestined" line? Well, because that's what the Bible says. Rom 8:29 &30, Eph 1:5-11, and pretty much the whole chapter of Rom 9.
A: But don't you know that you have the "free choice" to pick and choose those things in the Bible that you do not want to believe in?
C: Oh, you mean like how Armenius didn't believe in substitutionary attonement?
A: You stupid idiot, %*&$!@! Heretic & *^%. How dare you cross my WILL!!!
RomansGalatians 1 year ago
does all mean all all the time? The depends on what the definition of is is.
benhuey 1 year ago
If we look at the symbolism of blood and water on the day of atonement ceremony then we realise it represents the Spirit (eternal life) which Christ came to give. Jn 7:39.
Limited atonement, original sin etc are doctrines which show how Christianity cannot understand spiritual concepts like Rom 8:2 where we have 'sin and death' doctrines as the enemy of 'spirit of life' faith in God.
yarrw 1 year ago
LIMITED Atonement? Consider 2 Peter 2:1: "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who BOUGHT THEM - bringing swift destruction on themselves." So here we see that these unbelievers, spreaders of heresies, were, nonetheless, ALSO "bought" by the "sovereign Lord," and yet were also slated for destruction for their unbelief.
philipatoz 1 year ago
I do believe Election from the foundation of the world as God calling and saving those he chose to save and those not elected will not be preselected to be dammed but allowing humanity to have their desire to hate and rebel against God. Even knowing some who disagree with me on Limited Atonement-seeing them passionately preachng the gospel of Christ very passionately. To bad so many against Calvinism attach a name of a practice to judge Calvinists with was originated by a Calvinist:Soul Winning
daveme7 1 year ago
I really do not believe in Limited Atonement. I do believe it is limited by our rebellion but definetley not in the same vien. For me, I tend to look at it this way-not judging those who authored this(really not sure what they knew) as I saw this as opposing to what Armenians taught. For me, I see this as a bit flawed as if a teaching is false-this does not make the opposite of a false doctrine correct or right.
daveme7 1 year ago
Good video.
Lane, one of your tags reads "Calviminism." You might want to fix that. =)
suddiza 1 year ago
Now when Christ died He also gave gifts of the Spirit,innate wisdom and sanctification are these virtues also upon men everyone? Except they don't believe? .So Christ is limited in applying the applications of His death by mere mortal men of choice.So the only one limited in limited atonement is Christ Himself because He cannot apply Himself until all men make Him completely active.Nonsense Christ Atonement is effective to God always and therefore effective only to whom He chose
polopowers1 1 year ago
same all warmed over refutable nonsense.
stitty 1 year ago
Unbelief in the Bible is understood as rejection,NOT the way James Kennedy explains it.
bluetew37 1 year ago
What complete and utter nonsense.
Nothing like listening to a debate between idiots.
LetReasonPrevail1 1 year ago
@LetReasonPrevail1
Right on! Universal salvation is the only one that answers both sides of this debate. But that is considered heresy buy most, so they will not even go there.
123qth 1 year ago
@123qth I see the same thing. Universal reconciliation is the only understanding which satisfies both God's mercy and judgment, and the only theology that is truly systematic from Genesis through Revelation without picking and choosing proof texts.
sailing19100 1 year ago
@sailing19100
Keep preaching the REALLY Good News!
123qth 1 year ago
I reject I and P, so it makes no difference to mne, TULIP is a noxious weed
Strefanash 1 year ago
unbelief in the Bible speaks of rejection which in turn shows free will.
bluetew37 1 year ago
His explanation of the use of the word "ALL" in "All the world" quote is very poor. He uses logic and common language instead of getting into what the word "ALL" means in other places in the bible to give a clue as to what is meant in this scripture. He doesn't even talk about what Greek word was used.
I don't have a personal opinion on Arminianism vs Calvinism but this is a poor explanation.
I just kept waiting for him to get into the biblical meaning of the word. He never did.
fxtrader92 1 year ago
this video always makes me laugh ... no it doesn't
ThisIsMySockAccount 1 year ago
Why so many quotes from theologians and scholars? Isn't God the authority on this? Can't we quote (just throwing this out here) THE BIBLE MAYBE?
twobconger 1 year ago
Cont.To describe that scripture a little further in Romans 9 we find out that there is an opposing factor to the salvation of all men despite God desiring it. It is God himself, God loves himself more than he loves man or he would have forgiven without Christ, God chooses himself over man for his own glory, and this is why men go to hell. Gods glory is more important to him because it would be unholy to put man before himself, this is ultimately why Gods desire in 1tim2:4 does not come to pass
eyeztothesky 1 year ago
Cont... If you remove Limited atonement from the doctrines of grace scripture balances out perfectly, it just takes patience and seeking God, for instance in""For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:3-4)" This is Gods commanding will for us to pray for all because were not to participate in Gods sovereign will, but only to know it. Limited Atonement destroys calvinists credibility
eyeztothesky 1 year ago
I think if John Calvin was born today he wouldn't be a Calvinist(I read his atonement sermon and he believed Christ died for all). You watch the whole doctrines of grace video and it all is in perfect alignment to scripture until you hit limited atonement. Its very clear Christ died for all in scripture, there is no doubt about that and immense effort to get around it, and as long as doctrines of grace believers cling to that there debates with Arminians will be pointless.
eyeztothesky 1 year ago
And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field.
And he that is to be cleansed shall wash his clothes, and shave off all his hair, and wash himself in water, that he may be clean: and after that he shall come into the camp, and shall tarry abroad out of his tent seven days. "
The leprous man (sinner cleansed by Christ, the high priest) must then wash his OWN clothes.
Icannottolerateit 1 year ago
The Calvinist seems to forget that the letters written to the 7 churches in Revelation were to TRUE REBORN CHRISTIANS. Unfortunately being reborn is enough, but HOLDING ON to our faith is OUR job. Christ does not force us to maintain our faith. This is why the Bible says over and over "IF WE KEEP THE FAITH"
The letter to Sardis calls most of the Christians in that local community DEAD. Yet Christ tells THEM to strengthen what remains! We DO have responsibility! We cannot be passive!
Icannottolerateit 1 year ago
Since the fall of Adam we have had complete free will WHOLLY and COMPLETELY independent of the will of God.
Leviticus 14 explains we DO have some responsibility in our cleansing. Christ initially cleanses us of our impure heart and all we do in that is receive.
Have you forgotten the manner in which the temple was cleansed in II Chronicles? If you do not understand the connection between the spirit/Holiest Place, the mind/Holy Place and the body/the outer court you will not understand.
Icannottolerateit 1 year ago
Eric said the very opposite thing in Hell's Bells - because of our spiritual dimension, because we are spiritual beings, we seek to worship. And when we don't know God, we worship idols. Eric taught me that five years through Hell's Bells, why does he claim that the human spirit is dead? I can't think of a verse in the Bible that says that a man's spirit is dead apart from God. This lack of biblical support stands out, whatever accusations you throw at the Arminians.
AsTheDeer 1 year ago
@AsTheDeer i have a few examples for you,in genesis 2 God told Adam not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because he would die,so either God is a liar or Adam died spiritually, Colossians 2:13 is another example and also:Ephesians 2:1,Ephesians 2:5 ,Matthew 8:22..and those aren't even all of them
stretch2525 1 year ago
@stretch2525 1. This is amazing. How did Adam live for 900 years without his spirit? Spirit means breath. 2. And how do the lost people communicate with the evil spirits? Without using their spirits because their spirits are dead? 3. The only specific thing God has said is that we are DEAD IN OUR SINS, not that our spirits are dead. None of your passages mentions a dead spirit. To be dead in your sins means to live without the knowledge of God and to be doomed to hell.
AsTheDeer 1 year ago
@AsTheDeer spiritual death doesn't mean that your living without the spirit its just means your living by the flesh, not that it literally phisically died,its just like when the bible talks about hell as the second death or eternal death,its not refering to the way we die where we fall unconscious and never come back,and on the other hand even if there wasnt spiritual death and i know there is,those verses say we are dead in our sins and someone dead can't wake themselves and help their self out
stretch2525 1 year ago
@stretch2525 actually Adam & Eve did indeed die literally "in the day" they ate. to God a thousand years is as a day, and a day as a thousand years. the record shows Adam died at less than 1000 years old (930 to be exact) so he died "in the day" as God said he would.
tubesokk 1 year ago
@tubesokk
I feel sorry to interject on something that was as long as a month or more ago, but I feel I must.
When we speak of 1000 years as a day to God, we understand him to be transcendent of time. That is, he is not limited by time and further, he has all time and history laid out before him.
When we speak of Adam's death that very day, we should quickly understand it as his spiritual death, not his physical. He did indeed fall dead into sin that very day though he died much later.
blueskiesjazz 1 year ago
very true @blueskiesjazz,also in the bible when it speaks about receiving eternal life or in different instances when it speaks about being quickened John 5:21 for example,it speaks about something that happens when your still alive,so its definitely speaking about something spiritual and not physical,even though at other times the bible does speak about physical resurrection of course but not in those contexts,but yea i like the way you put that,i couldn't have put it any that well,praise God
stretch2525 1 year ago
yea i messed up there at the end lol
stretch2525 1 year ago
Just a comment -- the arbitrary selection concept of Calvinism results not only in limited-Gospel it results in watering down the Word of God itself - for in 1John 2:2 we find that God is clear on the point that Christ is the "Atoning Sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the Whole World" (NIV).
The Calvinist model basically claims that this is over-marketing on God's part.
in Christ,
Bob
CervantHrt 1 year ago
@CervantHrt Bob, if you watch the video again and apply the "figurative language" principle to 1 John 2:2 it will make more sense.
Is John LITERALLY saying that Christ has atoned for the sins of every individual on the entire planet? Well, is everyone saved? No. Well, then that cannot possibly be what John is saying. Instead, John is FIGURATIVELY saying Jesus has atoned not just for the sins of Jews, but for the sins of Romans, and of Greeks, and Americans and the whole world.
youthpastorJAC 1 year ago
@youthpastorJAC 1 John 2:2 states the the "Atoning Sacrifice" was completed at the cross for all of mankind. That much is in fact true. It was for all of mankind - the whole world. 1John 4 stated that Jesus was sent as 'the savior of the World". But Lev 16 makes it clear that BOTH the atoning sacrifice AND the high priestly (of Heb 8-9) ministy are required for the full context of "Atonement".
CervantHrt 1 year ago
@stretch2525
Yes, praise be to God and His Providence, because It was only the day before I posted that that I read Loraine Boettner's exposition of that in one of his books.
blueskiesjazz 1 year ago
@blueskiesjazz wow nice,maybe i should check that out sometime,whats it called?
stretch2525 1 year ago
@stretch2525 Loraine Boettner - The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination. A thorough strong defense of the primary Calvinistic doctrines.
blueskiesjazz 1 year ago
@blueskiesjazz nice,sounds good thanks,God bless
stretch2525 1 year ago
@blueskiesjazz yes it was his spiritual death as well but it was also his physical death that was being spoken of in a prophetic manner and he did indeed die in the day according to scripture. but you are entitled to your opinion.
tubesokk 1 year ago
Lets not Limit His Atonement, He gave himself as a ransom for ALL (1 Tim. 2:5-6), and bore the sins of ALL MEN (Isaiah 53:6), and tasted Death for EVERYONE (Hebres 2:9), He takes away the sin of the WORLD (John 1:29), ALL MEN are invited into salvation (Matthew 11:28-30), WHOEVER believes in him may have ETERNAL LIFE (John 3:14-15), in Christ, God was reconciling the WORLD to himself (2 Cor. 5:18-19), He indeed is the Savior of ALL people (1 Tim 4:10 ) and of the WORLD (John 4:42).
apollos6640 1 year ago
L (limited, [or, definite] atonement)--Jn. 10:11, 15 (NASB): "The good shepherd lays down His life for the SHEEP..... I lay down My life for the SHEEP." Rom. 8:32-33 (NASB): "He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for US ALL, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against GOD'S ELECT? God is the one who justifies." Eph. 5:25 (NASB): "Husbands, love your wives, JUST AS Christ also loved the CHURCH and gave Himself up for HER."
briancook007 1 year ago
a correction of an earlier post. the resurrection IS the confirmation of what Christ accomplished on the cross.
Soldier7of7Christ 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
L (limited [or, definite] atonement)--Jn. 10:11, 15: "The good shepherd giveth his life for the SHEEP.....I lay down my life for the SHEEP." Rom. 8:32-33: "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for US ALL, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth." Eph. 5:25: "Husbands, love your wives, EVEN AS Christ also loved the CHURCH, and gave himself for IT."
briancook007 1 year ago
Amazing briancook007 how the unsaved spam bible verses...
x8xMIDNIGHTMAREx8x 1 year ago
Sir, if you're accusing me of unbelief, you would do well to heed the Scriptures: Mat. 7:1-2 (NASB): "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." Jas. 4:12 (NASB): "There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?"
briancook007 1 year ago
@briancook007 - on the contrary, I was referring to the fact that you used the bible to show the truth of limited atonement and you were spamed for it.
x8xMIDNIGHTMAREx8x 1 year ago
@x8xMIDNIGHTMAREx8x My apologies, sir; thank you for your support.
briancook007 1 year ago
@briancook007 -no problem dear brother, spaming bible verses showthe spiritual bankruptcy of the lost
x8xMIDNIGHTMAREx8x 1 year ago
Comment removed
Soldier7of7Christ 1 year ago
Who was satisfied in Atonement but the Nature of God by Christ.If He was satisfied ,how can man have the power to make His satisfaction mute?Unbelief makes Christ not only ineffectual to the unbeliever if Christ died for all,but also to God and thats impossible.Christ died to satisfy God and once satisfied He cannot be dis satisfied,Christ died for the elect.!
polopowers1 1 year ago
I have not seen much of the old timers at all... of cource i don't keep up with all the alieses.... and i still think that they ought to do away with the comment ratings...
Soldier7of7Christ 1 year ago
@ele12957returns -Of course the resurrection is beneficial to the faith as it is the confirmation of everything that Christ accomplished. But it was the shedding of blood that perfected them who were set apart, the resurection confirms what the cross accomplishes...
been missing ya ele... where ya been!
Soldier7of7Christ 1 year ago
by the way ele... nice to see you are back...;)
Soldier7of7Christ 1 year ago
"Soldier, not every aspect was accomplished at the cross."-ele12597
Heb 10:10 - By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:14 - For by one offering he hath PERFECTED FOREVER them that are sanctified.
Did Jesus offering perfect the entire world... no... only them who are set apart... and perfected means completed... once again atonement is only limited to those set apart..
Soldier7of7Christ 1 year ago
there is no passage that says God had to reconcile himself to the world... reconcilliation is not a two way street, God reconciled the world to himself... one way, and by the way, if you take the passage in context, the world, and all are words limited to believers... not to everyone universally...this is seen also in romans 4, for only those who are justified by faith have no imputation of sins.
(2Corinthians 5:18-19... out of context)
Soldier7of7Christ 1 year ago
This is just a small part of the greater calvinist think tank propaganda machine.
DJSNuva1 1 year ago
DJSNuva1- Arrrrr! that thar be a dirty bit 'o ad homonim matey!
8DamienKing8 1 year ago
No sh1t, huh?
DJSNuva1 1 year ago
Rom. 5:18-19 (George Berry interlinear translation): "So then as by one offence [it was] towards all men to condemnation, so also by one ACCOMPLISHED righteousness towards all men to justification of life. For as by the disobedience of the one man THE many were constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one THE many shall be constituted righteous." This passage references those whose salvation has been accomplished, THE many (cf. Mat. 20:28, Jn. 19:30), God's elect (Rom. 8:33).
briancook007 1 year ago
L (limited [or, definite] atonement)--Jn. 10:11, 15: "The good shepherd giveth his life for the SHEEP.....I lay down my life for the SHEEP." Rom. 8:32-33: "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for US ALL, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth." Eph. 5:25: "Husbands, love your wives, EVEN AS Christ also loved the CHURCH, and gave himself for IT."
briancook007 1 year ago
Interesting...gives me much to think on.
MrJJonesbornagain 1 year ago
You don't have to do a terrible amount of research to see that every aspect of salvation is accomplished at the cross...
including reconciliation... A god that "reconciles himself to the world" and then tosses the people he reconciled to into hell is not the God of the bible...
Soldier7of7Christ 1 year ago
Justified By His Blood, Reconciled, by his death, salvation both both spiritual and physical, confirmed by his life, i.e. the resurrection...
Corinthians 15
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
@Soldier7of7Christ 1Corinthians 15....
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
reconciliation is the ACT by which Christians are saved.
When Man is reconciled to God, ALL things that cause him to be at enmity are
settled and fellowship and harmony between God and man are restored.. that is the essence of salvation. Every verse where the word reconciliation is used in the Bible, including the one you quote out of context, refers to believers only, and is not universal.
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
Romans 5:10 if reconciliation leads to salvation, and everyone is reconciled to God, then according to you explanation, everyone will be lead to salvation.
the problem is that you fail to see that reconciliation and salvation are the
same...perhaps you should invest in a good dictionary... and look up the meaning of reconciliation...
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
Why waste your time studying what someone in the past believed when the Almighty has provided you with the Word of God to live it in his Spirit?
MegaSage007 2 years ago
as for whosoever, i challenge you to obtain a Westcot and Hort New testament manuscript... interlinear if you need it and look for your self. the TWO words translated whosoever are translated, all the...we want over this before. i encourage you to check for yourself...
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
the word none has no limiter, it means none. World... Gk. "cosmos" has several meanings according to the context of the verse, same with the word All. if there is a limiter in the passage then them "all and world" are Limited to the context.
Lets use a simple example in Romans 1:7 Paul addressed the letter to "ALL" that be in Rome. but the word "All" has a limiter in the same verse... "beloved of God, called to be saints." The limiter makes, "ALL that be in Rome" refer to just believers.
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
Reading a text and applying it to given situations is not extreme.. when Paul
said there is none thaT understandeth ans none seeketh after God, he means NONE. That is what the text says. plain and simple Because the natural man can not understand or seek after God, he can not make a freewill decision to come to a God he does not understand or seek after. how simple can it be?
Because of this BIBLE fact, EVERY time you state a passage that shows someone exercising SAVING Faith,
- Cont-
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
you presume upon the text that the subject is exercising Free will, When the Bible is clear that he can not. (Romans 3:11) ..and repeating this error will never make it correct... our conversation has become redundant Every query you have posted has been answered with proper biblical exegesis, yet you either refuse to concede to your error, or you are blind to truth either way , have spent much to much time on this thread, and neglecting of other responsibilities outside the realm of youtube
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
must be going, feel free to repeat your queries, perhaps someone else will take up where I leave off... as for me, i see a dawkins video in the related video box... time to greet some atheists...
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
Regeneration is not the Holy Spirit moving in... it is the Holy Spirit reviving mans dead spirit and giving him a new heart... so he a can accept the gospel... we covered this. Being born again is a prerequisite to seeing the Kingdom of God... the entire passage of John 3 refers to the action of the Holy Spirit on his elect... we covered this. John 5 verse 25 when taken in context refers to the physical resurrection V.28 (IN THEIR GRAVES) we covered this...
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
The facts still hold, a man in his "sin- natured" state can not understand or seek after God -Romans 3:11, They cannot receive or know the things of the Spirit of God. -1 Cor. 2:14 They can't please God.- Hebrews 11:6. Because of this They CANNOT make a free-will choice to come to God or Christ. God must DRAW them.- John 6:44 They must be Born again John 3 Before you can acknowledge God's love for man, you must consider man's condition, Unregenerate man is in no position to choose God
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
the loving kindness of God= regeneration... come on ele, how much more loving can God be than to take a condemned man who can not understand, or seek after God...Romans 3
and regenerate him so he can understand the gospel? how much more can he commend his love toward us... He regenerates those who are spiritually dead so that can comprehend the good news...
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
Ele i agree, you can tell a sinner God loves them, and we are to tell everyone of God's love, but once again, it is only those who God Chooses who will be capable of receiving. remember A person must be born again to See the kingdom of God, and apart from that they can not understand or seek God... Romans 3
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
ele, don't be a goof... you know that the word fear, means reverence... give me a break.... as for the demoniac in Mark 5, Are you implying that The Holy Spirit can not Regenerate a man Filled with demons? demons trembled at the mere sight of Jesus, but the Holy Spirit has no power to regenerate a man filled with demons...I see... The Holy Spirit has less power than demons... good one ele...
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
Cornelius was a devout man that feared God,. Stated at the beginning as a description..Acts 10:1-2, unregenerate men do not fear God.(Romans 3) Cornelius feared God- He was regenerated, and received the gospel...
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
It is not a copout to compare scripture with scripture to see a mans spiritual status...Romans 3 says he unregenerate people can not understand or seek after God...so anyone responding positively to the gospel must be doing so because they have been regenerated. because if they wern't the gospel would be foolishness to him. ALL saved were Chosen and Elect before the Foundation of the cosmos...
Anyone who was Saved in the bible, was ELECT before the foundation of the World,
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us. once again we see that God had to first come to us before we could come to him....
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
God does not show favoritism:
None Righteous
None understandeth
none seeketh after God
God does show sovereignty .
"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
@ele12957returns -Acts 10:2-[Cornilius] "A devout man, and one that FEARED GOD with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
Romans 3:18 [unregenerate]
"There is no fear of God before their eyes." his capacity to recognize spiritual things shows that he is regenerate... the holy spirit odiously prepared his heart to hear the gospel, and God arranged for him to hear the gospel. He was one of the elect before the foundation of the world...1 peter 1
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
TYPO CORRECTION- holy Spirit Obviously... What a goof....
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
Holy Spirit... Man I need to take some typing lessons .
So now that you see that according to scripture Cornelius Was prepared for receiving the Gospel by the Holy Spirit, In what way am taking Romans 3 to an extreme, i am simply stating what it says, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh After God." It is a matter of taking scripture for what it says... not pulling it out of context, or reading into it something that is not there... just simple read and heed...
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
@ele12957returns- Ele, you are attacking the verse with a presupposition that man can make a free will move toward god when Romans 3 and John 3 says he can not.... You need to realize that anyone and everyone who comes to God does so because he first came to them...Barring that you are fighting with scripture, and repeating error
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
Got to be a family man now. Will be back for more chat later.... BYE! and God bless...
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
@ele12957returns the bible is clear that Faith and repentance is impossible unless the Holy Spirit acts First... Romans 3 and John 3.. Deal with these texts... how can you repent when you cannot understand or seek god... you can not...
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago
All those who are not born again, hate the Light... (Jesus) further, Those who are regenerate have no sins imputed to them... ie. they are already saved... Romans 4 saya that those who are JUSTIFIED by faith do not have Sins inputed to them... Justification and reconciliation are the same thing...
unredeemed are not reconciled to God because they are still under gods wrath. John 3:36...2 Thess. 1:8
Soldier7of7Christ 2 years ago