But atheist people worship, Stephen Hawking their genius earth god. & everything about matter.. ?They even obey theories?..They also Obey the natural evil.. ahhh. & what about , their brain cells ? Slaves of Flesh & all corrupt desires ..Thank`s to the natural Evil.. without a reason... Amen
You use the words "worship" and "obey" too loosely. Atheists believe in those things because it is demonstrable and true. There is no "worship" or "obeying" involved.
To ZombieRyushu, & any atheist. So why a process that we can`t understand, Would give us so many Cruelties..Plus religions. ?. Lets ignore about gods period.!. Now we have only evolution, correct !. So, where in the Hell I get religions from if evil doesn`t exist.?. where paganism came from!. & where that Natural Evil came to exist ? & what about the error ?.
@HonestDiscussioner It really took you 8 minutes to tell us basically that you have no proof, that would make you accept him... Of course you don't! Because you spend all your time trying to figure everything out, and you miss everything! I have seen, with my own eyes! and I can never deny him... I hope you see one day too....
@Wiedenheft84 Actually, the video was about the fact that I cannot deny him because I have no reason to think there is anything to reject. This isn't about insufficient proof, it is about the contention that atheists reject gods offer. They cannot reject an offer they don't think is legit.
@Wiedenheft84 Actually, the video was about the fact that I cannot deny him because I have no reason to think there is anything to reject. This isn't about insufficient proof, it is about the contention that atheists reject gods offer. They cannot reject an offer they don't think is legit.
they were trusting Jesus for their Salvation. They had heard the prophecies that Jesus was The only Saviour of The world, and that He would die to take away people's sins.
There is no Jesus in the TaNaKH. They were prophets themselves and had never stated anything about any Jesus. The Messiah in the TaNakh is suppose to be a warrior king like David. Rome crushed Jesus like a gnat. He is a failed Messiah who did nothing.
See Isaiah 53. This is a prophecy about Jesus The Messiah.
Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
With the world as his footstool? Yet our shuttles and rockets to the moon never found any gods sitting on thrones in the "heavens" above the firmament.
So it appears to be nothing more than ancient fables.
Likewise, God has created the condition in the world where the ability to rebel against Him was possible. Yet, he is not responsible for that rebellion once it has been committed. Therefore, sin originated with Lucifer who was the first to rebel and entered the world through Adam who likewise chose disobedience.
now I know you are not educated . because the jews never had a concept of the devil until 600 BC. - lucifer was a later creation until the pharisees came into power. the jews had this idea of going to place called Sheol .
But God did not cause them to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of their wills, each decided to rebel against God and sin entered the world (Rom. 5:12). God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.
What stop spamming was presumably getting at is that God gave us all inherant sin (don't argue with me here, he did, even if it was eve who ate the apple, it was god who cursed us) and then he gave us a 'messiah' to 'save' us. What's he saving us from? He's saving us from something he caused and created. He's cutting us and then giving us a band-aid.
According to the bible humans have a 'sinful nature'.
According to the bible, humans were made by God.
Ergo, humans' sinful nature was created by god.
Even if you try to say 'but we have free will', it doesn't help, since no matter WHAT happens, because of original sin, I, you and even a baby is a sinner. Thus, according to christian doctrine, we are ALL doomed to hell unless we accept Jesus.
God created smallpox, and ebola, and cancer, and aids, and measles, and diptheria and alsorts of other nasty shit. What makes you think he didn't create sin?
An analogy can be found in the relationship between a parent and a child. A parent can create the condition that makes disobedience possible yet the parent remains innocent if the child sins. For example, if a parent tells his child to clean up his room and the child does not, he has rebelled. But, the parent is not responsible for the childs sin, nor did he cause the child to sin. The child had a choice to obey or not to obey.
That's an awful analogy. For one, the kid would not deny the existence of the parent (or the command to clean his room) unless the kid was clinically insane. Also, the kid won't be tortured forever if he doesn't clean up his room. If the parents were good then they'd hand out a punishment fitting the infraction, whereas God's punishment is way over the top. It's literally infinitely harsh no matter what sin a human commits.
Going back to your earlier comment 'God did not create cancer, etc.
These came about as a result of the fall. '
God did create these things because he initiated the fall. He could have been forgiving in the garden. Eve had simply been tricked into eating the apple by something God created, the snake (or lucifer if you intepret it that way), and she was innocent because she did not know the difference between right and wrong, she was Naïve. God wasn't, and he cursed every human thereafter.
So, if you want to make the assumption that God (assuming he exists) is holy and perfect, then go ahead. I, on the other hand, care a little more about the truth, and after careful imagination it's clear to me that the Christian deity is by no means perfect. He is jealous, unforgiving, cruel and also, going from the old testament, clearly a litte sick. The irony is his preffered method of 'forgiving love' is a sacrifice, something he seems to be fond of. Just read the old testament.
Would you build a torture chamber in your basement for your kids, and tell them that if they did not love and obey you forever, you would torture them forever?
My opinion is, no you wouldn't. Why would god want to torture his own "children" forever? What possible way could it benefit him? And for that matter, what kind of sadistic asshole would he be?
The offer of the Christian God (Yaweh) is a threat. Do as I say, or be punished forever. Even if Yaweh did exist, I wouldn't worship him.
God loves us so much that He sent Jesus to rescue all who trust in Jesus' perfect sacrifice for them on The Cross. None of us deserve God's mercy and love.
@JesusOurSalvation Thats idiotic. First of all, the absolutely insane idea that God has to have someone killed for our sake.
(Generally, the sacrifice of Jesus was really is moot anyway.) But I digress. I don't like the idea that I am wicked or horrible, or born evil, or born with original sin because of some myth about Adam and Eve eating fruit in a garden.
These are control mechanism. Religions like Christianity like like to tear a person down, because they give the religion power.
When Christians struggle wth doubts , unbelief, etc, God guides us and brings us through our struggles in His timing.
Faith is a gift from God.
God usually guides i find in this way : God gives us peace when we are thinking in the right way, but when we are listening to satan's lies , we feel confused and fearful/ anxious.
I believe that all there is is physical matter and energy, and even if there was a spirit world, that has nothing to do with this video . . . it about whether you accept a specific offer by a specific deity.
God guides us in The Bible. God guides Christians in their daily walk with God by The Holy Spirit. God will never guide us to something that is in opposition to HIs Word.
God says :
" Look unto Me , and be ye saved ... for I am God , and there is none else. "
If that is indeed the case, then humor me. Pray to god and ask whether Allah is made up, according to you he should guide you to "yes, Allah is made up".
Or do you feel that, SINCE I've asked you this question, not before I asked you . . . since I've asked you this question he has already guided you to understand that Allah is made up?
If you haven't gotten an answer since I've asked you this originally, please just humor me and pray to him under that question.
That's not answering my question. Did god tell you, "Yes, Allah is made up". Not did he say he is the only one, did he tell you that Allah is made up specifically.
I'm trying to make a point. I want you to pray to god for guidance on whether Allah is made up or not and I want to know what the results of your prayer session is.
Yes, God can guide us in our thoughts, sometimes, but most of all God guides us through The Bible.God will never say anything to us in opposition to The Bible.
Pray and ask God to guide YOU, HD.
God will guide you in your thoughts, if it is His will.
Pray for grace and faith from God to Trust The Bible - God tells us all we need to know in Hs Word. God tells us that there is no God beside Him- that includes Allah.
Been there done that, never felt any guidance. If god won't ever lead you away from the bible then fine, but still humor me and pray anyway. I have a point to make but you have to actively pray to god for guidance on this issue in particular.
@JesusOurSalvation You do know that Allah, the Christian God, the Judeo God, and many other monotheistic religions God's are all essentially the same deity. You all just worship him only slightly differently from one and other. have you never heard the term "he of infinite names"?
While that is valid, you totally missed the point. its not the same as saying that one being is regarded as many different individual beings, by different cultures.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
@JesusOurSalvation "God will never say anything to us in opposition to The Bible" Though shalt not kill - Luke 19:27 And as for these enemies of mine who didn't want me to be their king--bring them in and execute them right here in front of me.'"
That wasn't your point. You said Jesus was the only way to heaven, which I proved wrong with scripture. You continually bury yourself. Do you even read the Bible?
Also, I hope that you bring up the arguments that makes you reject Islam. Be careful that you fall in the same mistake that most who criticize Islam fall in; relate Islam to terrorism which Islam can easily and logically answer to, or speak about the rights of women in Islam which the biased and unfair Western and orientalist media have fed you; Women in Islam are highly respected.
The actions of the believer say little if anything about what the belief says. Terrorism and women's rights must be addressed, but that doesn't make the religion wrong. In my opinion it just makes the individuals who perpetrated it evil.
Sometimes we lose track of why God's religion was revealed in the first place. God's religion was revealed to enhance our character, and dealings with others; and its teachings and rules are the means to this end. If we don't understand something or something doesn't make sense to us we should strive to know more and get the answers. We do what we can and leave the rest on God. I know you don't believe in God, but as long as you do what you can to know, the Justice of God will protect you.
I have heard such things from Muslims before . . some Christians too . . . it at least makes more sense, but given I don't see how free will can be a real thing it still doesn't seem to be enough . . or at least enough to make its consideration necessary.
I am the honest discussioner . . . honesty in my dealings with people is important to me, I do want to know the truth, though I admit I might not have it.
He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan. Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah they shall have a severe chastisement; and Allah is Mighty the Lord of retribution."
You made some good points. How do you know Christianity is right, Hinduism, or Islam. This is why the true Religion and Way of Life has to stand out clearly from the others. I'm a Muslim, so I'm wondering if you really have given Islam a serious study or just a passing glance.
Passing glance, but theism in general seems untenable to me. So far any explanation on how theism could be true also makes it unnecessary and any explanation on how it is necessary makes it seem untrue.
@HonestDiscussioner The thing about Islamic theology is that at its core they believe practically everyone (or it least all the theist) believe in a God. But the problem arises when people start adding (polytheism, man-like association, etc.) and subtracting (deistic view, atheistic/agnostic view, I'll explain this later if you want me to) from the attributes/characteristic of God. Now you might not care about theology of any religion but nonetheless I felt this is something I needed to point
Assuming that Satan and his 1/3 of heaven that were "cast out" all knew that Yahweh was really god, and yet went against him:
1. Why wouldn't Yahweh allow us the same understanding of his *true* nature that he allowed the "heavenly host"? Obviously, we would still have complete "freewill" to either accept him as god, or not. This would have been proven by the 1/3 of heaven who all declined.
2. What does it say about the perfect nature of Yahweh that fully 1/3 of his creation turned on him?
I didn't even know that! You telling me that the Old Testament that the Christians plucked from the Jews doesn't have Satan (or lucifer) cast out of heaven? WTF?? How do they pull that on off?
The concepts in Judaism are completely different. Satan would just be an angel employed by god to tempt people to give them the opportunity to choose right and wrong....kind of entrapment, but that's it. Some of the more spiritual sects believe it's just bad energy, not even a being. There is virtually no hell in Judaism either.
I've said it before, at other places, and I'd much rather hear a philosopher's take on it. But I don't want you to sacrifice your morals, HD. How about I tell you that I'd love nothing more than you thinking out the idea to its fullest?
he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
The cause, but natures are not caused, energy is, as far as we can tell, eternal. I can ask you what caused god and if you say nothing caused god, then I can say nothing caused matter and energy.
my point is that energy needed to be created instantly ,to exist ,,, because the cause and effect of energy cannot be separated , we know that energy cannot be lost or added to ,,, this says energy cannot grow or evolve ,, it must have been created ,, if it is created then it needed a creator ,,, thats my point
Incorrect conclusion. Energy does not need to be created, it may always have existed, and with its existence comes properties that can interact with each other cause motion and movement and therefore time. Energy doesn't need to be created.
Not necessarily, because god has something the universe doesn't: consciousness. Consciousness, thoughts, desires, actions, require time. Matter and energy don't, but god does, so for a god to create something intelligently he would have had to have been inside time first.
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That's interesting. Whether you realize it or not, you've just described Project Bluebleam. (Google it to see what I mean.)
Yrhp8268 2 weeks ago
But atheist people worship, Stephen Hawking their genius earth god. & everything about matter.. ?They even obey theories?..They also Obey the natural evil.. ahhh. & what about , their brain cells ? Slaves of Flesh & all corrupt desires ..Thank`s to the natural Evil.. without a reason... Amen
juandey 1 year ago
@juandey
You use the words "worship" and "obey" too loosely. Atheists believe in those things because it is demonstrable and true. There is no "worship" or "obeying" involved.
steviej321 4 months ago
To ZombieRyushu, & any atheist. So why a process that we can`t understand, Would give us so many Cruelties..Plus religions. ?. Lets ignore about gods period.!. Now we have only evolution, correct !. So, where in the Hell I get religions from if evil doesn`t exist.?. where paganism came from!. & where that Natural Evil came to exist ? & what about the error ?.
juandey 1 year ago
Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
This, is true.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner It really took you 8 minutes to tell us basically that you have no proof, that would make you accept him... Of course you don't! Because you spend all your time trying to figure everything out, and you miss everything! I have seen, with my own eyes! and I can never deny him... I hope you see one day too....
Wiedenheft84 1 year ago
@Wiedenheft84 Actually, the video was about the fact that I cannot deny him because I have no reason to think there is anything to reject. This isn't about insufficient proof, it is about the contention that atheists reject gods offer. They cannot reject an offer they don't think is legit.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
@Wiedenheft84 Actually, the video was about the fact that I cannot deny him because I have no reason to think there is anything to reject. This isn't about insufficient proof, it is about the contention that atheists reject gods offer. They cannot reject an offer they don't think is legit.
HonestDiscussioner 1 year ago
"Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgements endureth for ever." (Psalm 119:160)
We can trust God's Word completely.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
We can only get to Heaven through Jesus.
The God of The Bible is three persons in one God- The Father, The Son- Jesus, and The Holy Spirit.The Blessed Trinity is The one true and Living God.
We are saved by trusting Jesus alone for our Salvation.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
"We can only get to Heaven through Jesus."
WRONG
We've already been over this. Enoch and Elijah didn't need Jesus.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
As i said before to you sir ,
they were trusting Jesus for their Salvation. They had heard the prophecies that Jesus was The only Saviour of The world, and that He would die to take away people's sins.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
There is no Jesus in the TaNaKH. They were prophets themselves and had never stated anything about any Jesus. The Messiah in the TaNakh is suppose to be a warrior king like David. Rome crushed Jesus like a gnat. He is a failed Messiah who did nothing.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
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See Isaiah 53. This is a prophecy about Jesus The Messiah.
Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
I have prayed about it on your behalf.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
And?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
God has not guided me directly in my thoughts about this.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
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But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:57).
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Can you pray me up an onion blossom and some stout?
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
God provides for us every day- every good gift, including our food, is from God's loving hands.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Really? So why isn't god raining down heavenly food on the starving?
Give your good gift speech to the 4000 people who die of starvation every hour. Where are gods loving hands for them?
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
One day there will be no more suffering.
suffering came about as a result of the fall.
God wants us to help others and to send aid for those who are suffering.
God provides through others, too.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Why later? Why not now? What is god waiting for? So god is capable to end suffering, but he isn't going to bother with it?
So what is the difference between a god who does nothing and god who doesn't exist?
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
God is graciously waiting for as many people to be saved as possible before Jesus returns.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
So it's a game? Why is your gods plan so hopelessly retarded?
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
It is not a game . It is serious.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Your god is an idiot.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
How can you call God an idiot if you do not even believe in Him ?
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Jesus is alive , He did not remain dead, He reigns forever in Heaven on The throne.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
With the world as his footstool? Yet our shuttles and rockets to the moon never found any gods sitting on thrones in the "heavens" above the firmament.
So it appears to be nothing more than ancient fables.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
God's throne is not on the moon !
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
No, it's right outside the earth according the Bible and he's not there. He is a liar as usual.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
No, satan is the liar, he tempts us , sometimes.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Likewise, God has created the condition in the world where the ability to rebel against Him was possible. Yet, he is not responsible for that rebellion once it has been committed. Therefore, sin originated with Lucifer who was the first to rebel and entered the world through Adam who likewise chose disobedience.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
now I know you are not educated . because the jews never had a concept of the devil until 600 BC. - lucifer was a later creation until the pharisees came into power. the jews had this idea of going to place called Sheol .
BOGZASV8MA 2 years ago
But God did not cause them to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of their wills, each decided to rebel against God and sin entered the world (Rom. 5:12). God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Who created their wills?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Jesus is like someone selling you a band-aid after he deliberately cut you.
StopSpamming1 2 years ago 2
Jesus did not cut us. Please explain ?
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
You forgot to tell me he doesn't sell band-aids.
StopSpamming1 2 years ago
i take things literally, and do not understand what you are saying.
please clarify.
Thanks.
( i have some disabilities).
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
What stop spamming was presumably getting at is that God gave us all inherant sin (don't argue with me here, he did, even if it was eve who ate the apple, it was god who cursed us) and then he gave us a 'messiah' to 'save' us. What's he saving us from? He's saving us from something he caused and created. He's cutting us and then giving us a band-aid.
Lpoolboy 2 years ago
God does not cause anyone to sin. Adam and Eve chose to willingly sin.
The curse of sin is death.
God is just and fair, and can not go against His Nature. He is the Righteous Judge, sin had to be punished.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
According to the bible humans have a 'sinful nature'.
According to the bible, humans were made by God.
Ergo, humans' sinful nature was created by god.
Even if you try to say 'but we have free will', it doesn't help, since no matter WHAT happens, because of original sin, I, you and even a baby is a sinner. Thus, according to christian doctrine, we are ALL doomed to hell unless we accept Jesus.
Jesus is the band-aid, original sin is the cut.
Check and mate, bitch.
Lpoolboy 2 years ago
No, God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
God created smallpox, and ebola, and cancer, and aids, and measles, and diptheria and alsorts of other nasty shit. What makes you think he didn't create sin?
Lpoolboy 2 years ago
God did not create cancer, etc.
These came about as a result of the fall.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
An analogy can be found in the relationship between a parent and a child. A parent can create the condition that makes disobedience possible yet the parent remains innocent if the child sins. For example, if a parent tells his child to clean up his room and the child does not, he has rebelled. But, the parent is not responsible for the childs sin, nor did he cause the child to sin. The child had a choice to obey or not to obey.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
That's an awful analogy. For one, the kid would not deny the existence of the parent (or the command to clean his room) unless the kid was clinically insane. Also, the kid won't be tortured forever if he doesn't clean up his room. If the parents were good then they'd hand out a punishment fitting the infraction, whereas God's punishment is way over the top. It's literally infinitely harsh no matter what sin a human commits.
Lpoolboy 2 years ago
God's standard is perfection because God is Holy and perfect.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Going back to your earlier comment 'God did not create cancer, etc.
These came about as a result of the fall. '
God did create these things because he initiated the fall. He could have been forgiving in the garden. Eve had simply been tricked into eating the apple by something God created, the snake (or lucifer if you intepret it that way), and she was innocent because she did not know the difference between right and wrong, she was Naïve. God wasn't, and he cursed every human thereafter.
Lpoolboy 2 years ago
So, if you want to make the assumption that God (assuming he exists) is holy and perfect, then go ahead. I, on the other hand, care a little more about the truth, and after careful imagination it's clear to me that the Christian deity is by no means perfect. He is jealous, unforgiving, cruel and also, going from the old testament, clearly a litte sick. The irony is his preffered method of 'forgiving love' is a sacrifice, something he seems to be fond of. Just read the old testament.
Lpoolboy 2 years ago
The "Offer" of Jesus Christ is basically Blackmail.
ZombieRyushu 2 years ago 7
why do you think this , please ?
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Would you build a torture chamber in your basement for your kids, and tell them that if they did not love and obey you forever, you would torture them forever?
My opinion is, no you wouldn't. Why would god want to torture his own "children" forever? What possible way could it benefit him? And for that matter, what kind of sadistic asshole would he be?
The offer of the Christian God (Yaweh) is a threat. Do as I say, or be punished forever. Even if Yaweh did exist, I wouldn't worship him.
ZombieRyushu 2 years ago 7
We are not saved by obeying God.
God loves us so much that He sent Jesus to rescue all who trust in Jesus' perfect sacrifice for them on The Cross. None of us deserve God's mercy and love.
When we sin we rebel against God.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
@JesusOurSalvation Thats idiotic. First of all, the absolutely insane idea that God has to have someone killed for our sake.
(Generally, the sacrifice of Jesus was really is moot anyway.) But I digress. I don't like the idea that I am wicked or horrible, or born evil, or born with original sin because of some myth about Adam and Eve eating fruit in a garden.
These are control mechanism. Religions like Christianity like like to tear a person down, because they give the religion power.
ZombieRyushu 2 years ago
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"So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law."
Romans 3:28.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
When Christians struggle wth doubts , unbelief, etc, God guides us and brings us through our struggles in His timing.
Faith is a gift from God.
God usually guides i find in this way : God gives us peace when we are thinking in the right way, but when we are listening to satan's lies , we feel confused and fearful/ anxious.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
What do you think of the spirit world; what is an explanation for it. By spirit I mean beings that we can't see with our naked eye,etc.
iqraa89 2 years ago
I believe that all there is is physical matter and energy, and even if there was a spirit world, that has nothing to do with this video . . . it about whether you accept a specific offer by a specific deity.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
Psalm 103:19.
God is real.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
The LORD is a figment of a bunch of crazy people's imagination; and his kingdom doesn't exist at all.
Me just now.
God is fake.
Lpoolboy 2 years ago
God is very real, and one day every knee shall bow to Jesus.
God is at work in His people's lives individually, daily.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
No he isn't. No they won't. No he's not.
Lpoolboy 2 years ago
Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
John 14:6 >>
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Jesus is God.
The one true and living God is- God: The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. The Blessed Three persons in One God.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Allah is a man - made god.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Are you sure? Tell me please, are you absolutely positive?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Am i sure of what , please ?
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
That Allah is a man-made god?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Yes, 100 % certain and sure of this.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Have you really thought about it? Have you prayed over this? Do you honestly think that is what god is telling you?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Yes, i am certain.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Yes, i really am sure.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
But have you prayed over it and asked for god's guidance?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
God guides us in The Bible. God guides Christians in their daily walk with God by The Holy Spirit. God will never guide us to something that is in opposition to HIs Word.
God says :
" Look unto Me , and be ye saved ... for I am God , and there is none else. "
Isaiah 45: 22.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
If that is indeed the case, then humor me. Pray to god and ask whether Allah is made up, according to you he should guide you to "yes, Allah is made up".
Or do you feel that, SINCE I've asked you this question, not before I asked you . . . since I've asked you this question he has already guided you to understand that Allah is made up?
If you haven't gotten an answer since I've asked you this originally, please just humor me and pray to him under that question.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
God has given me a peace that He is indeed The One true and living God.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
So you still think Allah is a made up god? God hasn't told you otherwise?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
.God tells me that He is The One true and Living God. alone.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
That's not answering my question. Did god tell you, "Yes, Allah is made up". Not did he say he is the only one, did he tell you that Allah is made up specifically.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner
Why do you ask me this, please ?
Allah is a made-up god.
The God of The Bible is The only God.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
I'm trying to make a point. I want you to pray to god for guidance on whether Allah is made up or not and I want to know what the results of your prayer session is.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Yes, God can guide us in our thoughts, sometimes, but most of all God guides us through The Bible.God will never say anything to us in opposition to The Bible.
Pray and ask God to guide YOU, HD.
God will guide you in your thoughts, if it is His will.
Pray for grace and faith from God to Trust The Bible - God tells us all we need to know in Hs Word. God tells us that there is no God beside Him- that includes Allah.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Been there done that, never felt any guidance. If god won't ever lead you away from the bible then fine, but still humor me and pray anyway. I have a point to make but you have to actively pray to god for guidance on this issue in particular.
Just please, humor me.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
God will never lead a Christian away from The bible- The Bible is His Holy Word.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Okay, then why can't you pray about it then? Maybe there is something he will guide you to that DOESN'T lead you away from the bible.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
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God has not guided me in my thoughts directly that allah is not real.
The Bible - which contains God's words does clearly tell us that God is The only God.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
@JesusOurSalvation You do know that Allah, the Christian God, the Judeo God, and many other monotheistic religions God's are all essentially the same deity. You all just worship him only slightly differently from one and other. have you never heard the term "he of infinite names"?
lloydSSJ4 2 years ago
The God of The Bible does have more than one Name, but He is The same God- The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
You may have more than one name yourself, perhaps, nicknames for example.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
While that is valid, you totally missed the point. its not the same as saying that one being is regarded as many different individual beings, by different cultures.
lloydSSJ4 2 years ago
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1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
@JesusOurSalvation "God will never say anything to us in opposition to The Bible" Though shalt not kill - Luke 19:27 And as for these enemies of mine who didn't want me to be their king--bring them in and execute them right here in front of me.'"
Stuckherewithyou 2 years ago
Allah IS NOT EVEN RELEVANT TO THE CHRISTIAN GOD of jesus - 2 different religions.
BOGZASV8MA 2 years ago
God has not guided me in my thoughts directly that allah is not real.
The Bible - which contains God's words does clearly tell us that God is The only God.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
I understand that. Now I am asking you to seek his guidance. Why is this such a hard thing?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
God does guide us, in His timing ,in our lives as Christians, and in different ways.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
ok if a newsreporter gets information from an athletes interpetation of a football game, DO YOU CALL THIS THE WORD OF THE ATHLETE?
nO its the newspaper reporting the message of the athlete _ BIG DIFFERENCE otherwise minus the reporter and the athlete will tell the story .
BOGZASV8MA 2 years ago
God has guided me in my thoughts in the past, sometimes.
It is up to God , God works according to what He knows is best for us.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Seriously JOS. Have you prayed to god and asked him whether Allah is a made up god? Please do so and get back to me.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
The Bible contains The True and Living God's Words, and not the Quran.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Nah, it contains the errors and fallibility of the writings of men. Nothing divine about any of it.
Both books of men.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago 3
Jesus says that The only way to The Father is through Him.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Nope.
Genesis 32:30 - So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
Please can you explain your reply - what is it in reply to ?
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Just disproving the "Jesus is the only way to the Father" crap.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
Jesus is The only way to The Father = means that Jesus is The only way to Heaven.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
WRONG
Genesis 5:24 - Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
2 Kings 2:11 - Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
Enoch and Elijah were God's saved people.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
They didn't need any Jesus to get to heaven. My point still stands. Your point still fails.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
They did trust in God alone for their Salvation.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
That wasn't your point. You said Jesus was the only way to heaven, which I proved wrong with scripture. You continually bury yourself. Do you even read the Bible?
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
Yes, i do read God's precious words.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
No no no . . . see Mohummad was the greatest profit of all. Why would God not give his greatest profit the truth? Are you calling God a liar?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
The Quran is corrupt.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
How can god's word be corrupt? He would not let his word get corrupt. Why do you not have faith in god's word?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
The Quran is not God's Word.
The Bible is God's Word.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
@JesusOurSalvation
But the Quran says it's God's word.
"This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah." -Quran, The Heifer Are you saying God doesn't know his own word?
Rickyballon 2 years ago
The One True and Living God of The Bible never lies. He is the only real God.
" Every Word of God is pure."
Proverbs 30 : 5.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
God's Words are not spoken through the prophet Mohammed.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Sure they are! Why did the angel Gabriel tell Mohammed to recite them then?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Also, I hope that you bring up the arguments that makes you reject Islam. Be careful that you fall in the same mistake that most who criticize Islam fall in; relate Islam to terrorism which Islam can easily and logically answer to, or speak about the rights of women in Islam which the biased and unfair Western and orientalist media have fed you; Women in Islam are highly respected.
iqraa89 2 years ago
The actions of the believer say little if anything about what the belief says. Terrorism and women's rights must be addressed, but that doesn't make the religion wrong. In my opinion it just makes the individuals who perpetrated it evil.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Sometimes we lose track of why God's religion was revealed in the first place. God's religion was revealed to enhance our character, and dealings with others; and its teachings and rules are the means to this end. If we don't understand something or something doesn't make sense to us we should strive to know more and get the answers. We do what we can and leave the rest on God. I know you don't believe in God, but as long as you do what you can to know, the Justice of God will protect you.
iqraa89 2 years ago
I have heard such things from Muslims before . . some Christians too . . . it at least makes more sense, but given I don't see how free will can be a real thing it still doesn't seem to be enough . . or at least enough to make its consideration necessary.
I am the honest discussioner . . . honesty in my dealings with people is important to me, I do want to know the truth, though I admit I might not have it.
I give it my best shot.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Jesus says that He is The way , The Truth and The Life.
" I have come that they might have life and have it to the full. "
John 10 :10.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan. Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah they shall have a severe chastisement; and Allah is Mighty the Lord of retribution."
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
I have friends who are Muslims.
They are lovely people.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
You made some good points. How do you know Christianity is right, Hinduism, or Islam. This is why the true Religion and Way of Life has to stand out clearly from the others. I'm a Muslim, so I'm wondering if you really have given Islam a serious study or just a passing glance.
iqraa89 2 years ago
Passing glance, but theism in general seems untenable to me. So far any explanation on how theism could be true also makes it unnecessary and any explanation on how it is necessary makes it seem untrue.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
@HonestDiscussioner The thing about Islamic theology is that at its core they believe practically everyone (or it least all the theist) believe in a God. But the problem arises when people start adding (polytheism, man-like association, etc.) and subtracting (deistic view, atheistic/agnostic view, I'll explain this later if you want me to) from the attributes/characteristic of God. Now you might not care about theology of any religion but nonetheless I felt this is something I needed to point
ahmarsidd 2 years ago
What problems arise then?
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Even demons know that Jesus is God.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
We don't believe in any of Christianities gods, even it's sub gods.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
That would be very convincing evidence if demons existed. I don't believe they do though.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Assuming that Satan and his 1/3 of heaven that were "cast out" all knew that Yahweh was really god, and yet went against him:
1. Why wouldn't Yahweh allow us the same understanding of his *true* nature that he allowed the "heavenly host"? Obviously, we would still have complete "freewill" to either accept him as god, or not. This would have been proven by the 1/3 of heaven who all declined.
2. What does it say about the perfect nature of Yahweh that fully 1/3 of his creation turned on him?
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
In Judaism there is no rebellious fallen angels for this reason. What kind of god cannot even control his own kingdom lol.
Christianity had to get it from Zoroastrianism, which has a good god vs a bad god.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
I didn't even know that! You telling me that the Old Testament that the Christians plucked from the Jews doesn't have Satan (or lucifer) cast out of heaven? WTF?? How do they pull that on off?
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
The concepts in Judaism are completely different. Satan would just be an angel employed by god to tempt people to give them the opportunity to choose right and wrong....kind of entrapment, but that's it. Some of the more spiritual sects believe it's just bad energy, not even a being. There is virtually no hell in Judaism either.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
"What does it say about the perfect nature of Yahweh that fully 1/3 of his creation turned on him? "
You should do a video on that AA. If you don't I'm stealing it!
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
I've said it before, at other places, and I'd much rather hear a philosopher's take on it. But I don't want you to sacrifice your morals, HD. How about I tell you that I'd love nothing more than you thinking out the idea to its fullest?
AncientAtheist 2 years ago
he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
valu777 2 years ago
Okay. Got something that ISN'T a circular argument? No? Oh well. Nice try. Oh wait . . that wasn't a nice try. That was actually a terrible try.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
the whole of creation is held together by Gods word == laws of nature , physics
it is reasonable to deduct that if he changes his word that the rest of his word is compromised and creation would fall apart
the universe is held together by laws
laws require a law maker
laws cannot evolve as they change not
laws require instant creation
valu777 2 years ago
No, laws don't require a law maker. It's just cause and effect.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
honestdiscussioner
what comes first the cause or the affect?
valu777 2 years ago
The cause, but natures are not caused, energy is, as far as we can tell, eternal. I can ask you what caused god and if you say nothing caused god, then I can say nothing caused matter and energy.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
energy is, as far as we can tell, eternal.
if energy can be eternal , then its possible for God to be eternal ,,,right
if you say nothing caused god ,,,, i did not say i say we are not told what caused God
valu777 2 years ago
Then what is your point about cause and effect? It sounded as if you were going to argue something had to have a first cause.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
my point is that energy needed to be created instantly ,to exist ,,, because the cause and effect of energy cannot be separated , we know that energy cannot be lost or added to ,,, this says energy cannot grow or evolve ,, it must have been created ,, if it is created then it needed a creator ,,, thats my point
valu777 2 years ago
Incorrect conclusion. Energy does not need to be created, it may always have existed, and with its existence comes properties that can interact with each other cause motion and movement and therefore time. Energy doesn't need to be created.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
then God does not need to be created ,, by the your logic ,,right
valu777 2 years ago
Not necessarily, because god has something the universe doesn't: consciousness. Consciousness, thoughts, desires, actions, require time. Matter and energy don't, but god does, so for a god to create something intelligently he would have had to have been inside time first.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
to correct you on this ---energy requires time,, as the atoms need time to spin
valu777 2 years ago
No, exchange of energy needs time, not energy itself.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
where dose energy exist ?
valu777 2 years ago
Now that, is a complicated question. Best go ask Wildcard that one.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
sorry the verse i quoted before was Mark 3:11 not Mark 4 : 11.
JesusOurSalvation 2 years ago
Gravity
just a theory
AgosLoco 2 years ago 2
Yeah, nuclear bombs... just a theory...
Hyardacil 2 years ago
@Hyardacil
google the word Sarcasm
AgosLoco 2 years ago
I know it was sarcasm, I was agreeing in my own strange way.
Hyardacil 2 years ago
Our body being made of cells. Only a theory. Germs, only a theory. Sarcasm . . okay that isn't a theory but let's pretend it is anyway. :-)
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
"Germs, only a theory."
Chiropractors don't believe in Germ Theory of Disease :(
sciencemile 2 years ago
My Dad is a chiropractor. Yes they do. They just think that making the body into it's proper position helps the body fight off the germs better.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago
Most don't, and they believe in the Subluxation Theory of disease exclusively.
So perhaps he's a "Reform" Chiropractor? ;P
sciencemile 2 years ago
I haven't really met any that don't think germs cause disease.
HonestDiscussioner 2 years ago