@ndzoko you are referring to the civil laws of the Jewish people, if you knew you're theology instead of trusting you're prejudice you would know that this is a highly flawed argument, if you want me to explain, respond, first you have to see that we all deserve death, then you will see that a just god had to fulfill his justification by sending his own son to die. One day after years of being like you I found that I was in a conflict with an invincible god and that all the justification went t
Heard this story the other day of an open air preacher who every day in his congregation would have a proud atheist who would heckle, one day a homeless man walked between the minister and the atheist and the atheist said "communism can but a new coat on that man" and the minister said "but Christianity can put a new man in that coat" this is the truth that we live by
Jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus hail jesus jesus jesus hail jesus jesusThe very fact that you write 2012, and not 5000 something as the date, is because of Jesus the date changed into the era of the new testement
The song is beautiful because it describes our Holy God who LOVES a sinful people so much that He sent the Son of God to die in our place so that we could truly live. Jesus came to save the sinner not the righteous. I believe that means all of us... .That is true power....true love.... that the Creator of this world would lay his life down for me a sinner. This is the word of God!!!
The power of god :Witches, kill them. Homosexuals, kill them.fortunetellers, kill them. those who don`t listen to priests, kill them. those hitting their dad, kill them. those who curse their parents, kill them, adulterers, kill them. fornicators, kill them. people who believe in other religions, kill them. non-believers,kill them. fals prohets ,kill them. blasphemers, kill them. those who work on the Sabbath, kill them. This is the word of god !!
Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Died 4 U He died for you accept Him into your heart I promise you, you will find peace, it is a gift
Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Died 4 U He died for you accept Him into your heart I promise you, you will find peace, it is a gift
God loves every simple things. Christianity and Faith are not complicated. As you hear this beautiful song, and if your are a human being, you'll be able to feal your heart beating. If you listen carfully, you'll hear God saying "I love you, I love you, I love you..."
I'm glad to belong to the family of God, and I can't wait to meet you in Heaven, my brother, my sister in Christ because I love you too.
I love her accent! :D This song is also amazing!!! :D One of my very favorit songs. I sang this at a state competition. and I got 4th place. I was Glad that I placed, but I was also glad to praise my Lord Jesus Christ! The power of the cross has surly broken many proud hearts and it has broken mine. I am VERY glad that it did! Praise God!
@SamWiseGingy WHEN ADAM AND EVE ATE OF THAT TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL AND SINNED THEY FELL SLAVES TO SIN, DRAGGED BY CHAINS OF DARKNESS, BY THE DEVIL... YOU SAMWISE, ARE A SLAVE TO SIN WITHOUT GOD... I KNOW FOR SURE THAT IF YOU LET GOD FREE YOU FROM YOUR LIFE OF SLAVERY TO SIN, YOU'D ZIP IT ON THESE VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE!!! THEN MAYBE YOU'D UNDERSTAND SOME PEOPLE ON HERE... TIL THEN MAKE LIKE A TREE, AND LEAVE!!!
I think I would enjoy this debate but I think both of you, SamWiseGingy and bloodseal6, should move this debate to the personal messages to save any more hastle, especially from people like furpurr who pretend their message is full of emotion when they just copy and paste it to every single video with a hint of a debate.
SAMWISE GINGY, ET. AL.: how about just discussing what a great song this is, how beautiful her voice is, & how moving you find it {if you do}, rather than covering the entire comment page with comments that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any of the above? How insulting toward the Gettys you ALL have been, & how disrespectful. For shame!!
Why do so many find it impossible to come on these pages & merely critique the performance, w/o spinning off into a debate w/no end?!?
This truly accomplishes your goal of bringing worship and prayer to my soul, and I listen to it every morning as I prepare for work. It starts my day out right. Thank you from Canada. Blessings on both of your heads, for bringing truth and the light of God's love to millions. I am sure God will say to you, Well done, good and faithful servants.
The title of the video SAYS "The Power Of The Cross"... If you have doubt or disbelief in Christianity, then videos like this probably are not something you'll enjoy. Look up videos more related to your interests. Monkey evolution, Charles Darwin documentaries? They're on YouTube. But annoying other people with your unpleasant comments is gaining you nothing. Feel free to just avoid these types of videos, for everyone's sake, please.
You're stereotyping is not appreciated, thanks. Our interests are in music, laughter, friends, family, love. We are not all interested in monkey evolution or Darwin. They are not part of our belief system - in fact we don't have a belief system - more a lack of belief. We too can be transcended by any music, so I'll thank you keep your prejudices to yourself.
samwise why do you continue to intentionally come to Christian videos & stir up dissension & anger?? do you enjoy it so very much? it's pitiful & sad of you. can you not just come in to enjoy the song & the performers?? the gettys are WONDERFUL performers, very talented, very blessed! how utterly disrespectful you are being towards them!! grow up, sir.
@furpurr I provide a platform for you to tell me just how reasonable it is to believe in the ideas that you believe in and govern your lives by. Surely you have good rational reasons for the ideas that govern your lives and the ideas that you wish to use to form our society.
I have read a slight piece of the conversation here and I am a little lost. I see the assertions about the bible being a "good" guide and I put that in quotes so as to not offend anyone and I also see the assertion that that the bible is flawed and sanctions slavery. Now I am curious If you would please explain how the bible condones slavery. I am a Christian. I would like to understand your point of view and see exactly what you mean.
@bloodseal6 Leviticus 25 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Col: 3 22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the L. as a reward. It is the L. C. you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.
@SamWiseGingy Heavens no, I am by no means an expert on the bible. I just wanted to read the passages that you chose in order to see your side. Now this is a very touchy topic especially from a cultural standpoint. I guess the first thing I would like is for you Sam to define why slavery is bad. I have an idea but I need it in your own words so as to not step on toes or misunderstand.
Part 2 Frederick Douglas continued: I have found that, to make a contented slave, it is necessary to make a thoughtless one. It is necessary to darken his moral and mental vision, and, as far as possible, to annihilate the power of reason. He must be able to detect no inconsistencies in slavery; he must be made to feel that slavery is right; and he can be brought to that only when he ceased to be a man."
@SamWiseGingy ok I understand and agree with Douglas and his view. Now I have to draw your attention to the fact that this world is one of sin and evil. God does not prefer slavery but allows it. He doesn't say go get slaves, but rather says if you are to have them this is what you are to do and how to treat them. Like i previously stated because of our sinful nature if God were to completely abolish slavery He would have to take free will from man.
@bloodseal6 Yeah sure. God just let humanity suffer through a few more thousand years of slavery because it was really the best thing for all concerned, really. Yada yada. I don't know which ChristiansIt's I have the least respect for, the ones who can justify slavery or the ones who can't. That whole fallen world is good cover for an all loving and powerful god isn't it? If it weren't for the fall you would have to admit the obvious, that either god is a beast or he doesn't exist.
@SamWiseGingy If it weren't for the fall then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. You also forgot to mention that He is a jealous and holy God. Now I know the last sentence in your reply is an attempt to start a new discussion, so I will entertain the thought. Why is God a beast or non existant.
@bloodseal6 The fall is nothing more than a fabrication to answer the problem of evil. It's man's fault. If I wrote a computer program that blew up world because the user pressed ctrl alt ` then you say the program had a design error. You wouldn't say user error. Now that we know about microbes it hard to blame sickness on sin. Now that we know about plate tectonics, it is hard to blame earth quakes on God. All you are doing is using myth to justify myth.
@SamWiseGingy ok as you probably already know this will become a stalemate without concessions. For one, I am trying to explain things from a Christian perspective and I am unsure if you believe God is real or not. If you don't believe He is real think about this image. If there is a piece of art in a museum then the rational thought is that there is an artist who created that art. The same applies for a building there had to be a builder. What then of the known universe? What of the unknown?
My answer is from Frederick Douglas who hated slavery because it dehumanizes people: "I have observed this in my experience of slavery, - that whenever my condition was improved, instead of its increasing my contentment, it only increased my desire to be free, and set me to thinking of plans to gain my freedom.
@bloodseal6 So that means a builder or a painter created the world? Who created a star, or did stars come to be by natural processes. How about a tree. Was a tree designed or do trees exist and propagate by natural process.
Even if I allow for conversation that it is necessary for a god to exist to have a world like ours you still need evidence that it was your god and not Zeus or some other god(s).
@SamWiseGingy Before you can be so strongly against something, you must first have a good knowledge of it. Read the bible and you will know if God exists or not and I will pray that God will provide you an opportunity to get to know him.
@teadogs10 Why do you presume that I have not read the Bible? I assure I have. There are many to have read the Bible and don't believe. In fact the best way to convince someone of the irrationality of the Christian faith is to get them to read the Bible honestly and not just cherry pick verses that they like.
@SamWiseGingy In reference to the tree comment I believe the answer to be both, God designed the tree and the natural process it follows. True, evidence is necessary to prove God exists, but if you were to accurately review the statement I believe you might come to the conclusion that you cannot state that there is no proof just like I cannot state that there is apart from the bible and the historical value it has etc.
@bloodseal6 You confuse proof for arguments. Christians have many arguments. None of them meet any standard of reason or proof, and nearly all of them are designed to create an illusion of rationality for believers.
@SamWiseGingy I did no such thing my friend. Forgive me if I sound a bit brash, but I am not setting up arguments like you claim. I am merely stating what I know. To be completely fair Sam, if I may call you that, it takes two individuals to argue. Now like I previously stated I am not trying to argue or come across as argumentative I am strictly trying to get to know you and your point of view as it pertains to Christianity and God.
@SamWiseGingy Now I think you have a good point with your comment about the standard of reason. My question to you would be what lens do you view your standard of reason through? It is necessary that you define the standard of reason as well because if I don't know your standard how could I respond accurately?
@bloodseal6 I make no special metaphysical categories for a god or "spiritual" realities. That is what believers do. I view god, Bible and Jesus just like I view any other history or judgement of fact.
@bloodseal6 The Bible asserts that there are angels. Unless you can tell me how it is reasonable to believe in angels then you can't assert the reliably of the Bible especially on anything "supernatural."
"Might come to the conclusion" is hardly a convincing argument now is it?
@bloodseal6 Do you have a concordance? There are many on line look up slavery. You will see slavery condoned in the old and new testaments. Lev. 25, Exodus 21, and nearly every letter that Paul wrote. So anyone who asserts that the Bible is good moral book is obligated to defend slavery. If you really want to me look up the verses I can do it for you.
@SamWiseGingy Ok Sam I thought we were passed this with respect to slavery. God doesn't condone it but rather allows it. since you think the fall is a myth how do you explain the evil actions of men and women, or the condition of the heart?
@bloodseal6 You may forgive the Bible for condoning slavery, but that is not a rational thing to do. You can't say the Bible is a moral guide without also saying slavery is moral.
Evil actions are easy to explain if you believe humans evolved from apes. We are just apes who learned how to drive and make explosives. In fact that is very good explanation for the state of the world.
@SamWiseGingy you are right it isn't rational. Actually Christianity is far from rational it is the most radical in terms of belief. It isn't the bible that is the moral guide but the one who wrote/inspired it. Christ is my moral guide. You, however, cannot say that Christ isn't a moral guide without believing in Him, or following His teaching.
So, you believe in the Big Bang Theory? Are these apes that we evolved from inherently evil? How do you define evil? Where is it from? Can one be good?
As i watch this im brought close to tears. Christ could love us so much. I pray for all those so called celebrities who have been carried away by material things. I pray for people who follow them along, Lord in a world like this, show your grace. I await you.
to all those who think "dropping logical reasoning" as inferior. You drop your reasoning to something you can not comprehend. that thing is BEYOND science.. Bible and Christ are not falsified or proven wrong by science... the fact is that Science has no explanation for that.can the creation analyse and bring out Its creator in numbers and statistics.Christ and Bible are neither non-existent nor against science.but simply beyond the human limitations of reason and logic... after all He created us
hhaha why are you guys making fun of scientists? a lot of scientists are christian, you'll see that they aren't contradicting, they are parallel ( unless you're talking about evolution ). when dr hawkings and his partner found that the universe came from NOTHING, they both immediately came to two conclusions. Hawkings believed " we must have done some calculations wrong" the partner went away and said " There must be a God."
If you liked or didn't like this, please go to heart publications and look for the CD called "Give Me Jesus" there is another version of this song it is track 5. Please listen to it!
I read all the "banter" below and can't help but be drawn back to the verse not to throw your "pearls" before swine. The spiritual, the miraculous, these are realms which cannot be dissected with earthly materialistic hearts and minds. I would have to say you ask me how I KNOW he lives.....HE LIVES WITHIN MY HEART!!! You can never convince me otherwise. I'll take my "foolishness" as you call it and proclaim to the highest heaven. My Redeemer lives!!!
Oh my Jesus, how miserable I would be without You!!! Thank You for bearing all my sins on the Cross, all tho it wasn't my sins that held you to the Cross, it was your great love for me that held you to the Cross!! Thank You!!
"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
@SamWiseGingy, when someone puts faith in science and human hands for medical care, one gets a misguided view that everything can be solved with human ingenuity. However, the result of this thinking is one man trying to find the solution to a problem and gets a bill called health care that is transforming this nation to a tyranny.
Well dude, the next time you are have a medical need I suggest you seek out a faith healer.
In so doing you will improve the gene pool by helping to remove yourself from it.
Once again faith feels threatened by science. Indeed faith should threatened by knowledge. Science is built on reason and faith is built on superstitious none sense.
@SamWiseGingy Science is a gift from God. Faith is not threatened by science, we use science to help benefit us. Plus you don't even know what the song is talking about. You assume that Christians believe in voo-doo magic to heal us we don't seek "faith healers". What we do believe is that God will take care of us and provides resources such as medical care to keep us healthy.
Science is the work of humanity. Your god had nothing to do with it. Beliefs in god/gods are an interference to science and always have been. The more religious a culture is the less rational a culture is.
That is why religious institutions, especially the church has advocated against science for the past twenty centuries. If you read a little history you would know as much.
@SamWiseGingy Plus, the song talks about how we are saved from our sins because of Christ's death as our perfect sacrifice. Not a blood offering for healing of sickness. The least you can do is listen to the song.
At least you could have listened to the scripture she read. "with his stripes we are healed"
No the blood of Jesus doesn't save you from your sins it saves you from a vindictive god who is angry at you because of your sin. There is a big difference. This blood appeases the wrath of your god. Doesn't that sound like a primitive mythology to you?
Wounds don't heal. Medical care heals. Medical care based on science. Blood sacrifices and human sacrifices are ancient myths and avail nothing. The cures to humanity's ills will come by humanity's hands or they will not come at all.
@SamWiseGingy Even if your naturalistic assumptions are correct, how many martyrs have purchased your freedom to say what you wish? How many have died to heal the curse of tyranny? In the same vein Christ has purchased freedom from the curse and tyranny of sin! He was pierced for our transgression, and crushed for our iniquities and by His wounds we are healed. (Isaiah 53 ; 700 years before Christ.)
@SamWiseGingy I specifically stated that our freedom was purchased from sin. So, no. We sold ourselves into bondage to sin, not God. Does evil deserve to be punished? Of course it does! For, the wages of sin is death! So, Christ took the punishment we deserved upon himself and paid the debt for our sin.
The age of a belief is an illegitimate argument. The Bible says that murder is evil, and is written in the same Torah that prescribes blood sacrifice. Is not murdering primitive superstition?
@SamWiseGingy Before commenting about what the Bible says, read it for yourself so you can take it in context.
Plus our freedom is not a business transaction, it is a gift from God by his grace. I don't even deserve to go to heaven, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
@SamWiseGingy If you think that this country should be without religion then you should move to China, but we live in America and I have a right to believe whatever I want. And before you say what I believe, I encourage you to read the Bible so you can know what I truly believe. Until then I pray that God will have mercy on your soul, because I am done throwing my pearl unto swine. I am finished with this conversation.
@SamWiseGingy Do evil deeds deserve to be punished? Of course they do! We deserve to pay the price for our sin, but Christ has taken that punishment upon himself, which is what is meant when Isaiah says that "by his wounds we are healed."
Once again, the age of my source has nothing to do with its truth or falsity. If that were the case we would have to discount atomic theory because Democritus conceived of it 400 years before Christianity. So, all you have is ancient books too.
Some of them I suppose. The problem with your god is punishes sins by killing people. If you did something evil against me I may forgive you and I may not but I don't think killing my son would help any thing. I don't know about you but the idea of human blood sacrifices sounds pretty counter productive and primitive to me especially when most of the these sins are fairly trivial.
First of all, God is perfect and holy, and cannot accept even trivial sins.
And you say he sent Jesus to die almost as if that is a bad thing. Let me tell you: it is a wonderful thing. And Jesus's death is significant because Jesus lived a perfect and holy life. He was sent to die for us. His perfect blood washed away our sins, and he took them upon himself. Do you know what grace means? Jesus is grace incarnate. God could've forgotten about us. But instead he sent Christ.
You are just repeating dogma and you aren't thinking about what you are saying. Your god killed a human as a sacrifice for sins. A human sacrifice for sins. Blood sacrifice for sins. God's idea.
Doesn't all of that sound like it was out of a very primitive age with a primitive god?
If you did something to me I may or may not forgive you but I'm not going to kill anyone, except perhaps you if your crime against me was serious enough.
And God did not kill a human as a sacrifice for our sins. Jesus was fully God and fully man. And it wasn't like God was just like, "Hey, Jesus, I'm gonna kill you." Jesus is eternal, and existed before coming to earth clothed in manhood. He came knowing exactly what He was going to do one day. He did it willingly. God didn't kill a random human. Jesus knew why He was here.
You are trampling over the cross without even caring.
Without a doubt, I am defending Christianity. I did not deny that Jesus was killed. He indeed was. And He indeed rose from the dead.
And I said that Jesus was both God AND man. You deny it simply because it is something you cannot understand. And I am not saying that I fully understand either, but I do believe it.
So God wasn't JUST satisfied with a human sacrifice. He was satisfied with the sacrifice of God as man.
@SamWiseGingy --Hi Sam, Maybe I can provide a bit of clarification.
1. The Lord Jesus Christ is God the Son. The "Second Person of the Trinity." Co-creator, co-ruler of the universe. No decision about anything was made without His making it in complete agreement with the Father and the Spirit.
2. The sin of Lucifer and all the fallen angels (now demons), the sin of Adam & Eve, and the sin worthy of the death penalty that each of us commits is the same--treason.
We question whether our Creator has any right to be our Sovereign, and we decide He does not.
3. No Sovereign allows rebellious traitors to remain within the comfort and protection of the realm, but rather exiles or executes them. Our decision to commit treason put us in this horrible position. Actions have consequences.
4. But God didn't want to leave us under the condemnation we so justly deserved. He decided to take our death penalty on Himself. Jesus came, lived, died, and rose again.
5. So it's not really a "human sacrifice" or a "blood sacrifice" in the sense you indicate. It was, rather, a substitutionary death "the just for the unjust...to bring us to God."
6. "God demonstrates His love for us in this: while we were still sinners (treasonous rebels) Christ died for us."
7. The love of God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is hardly as barbaric and bloodthirsty as you seem to believe, but rather dedicated and determined to meet our extreme need of rescue.
5. According to your revelation Jesus was human, Jesus was a sacrifice. Jesus pleased your god. Therefore your god was pleased with a human sacrifice. Unless of course you want to deny your revelation.
6. I know lots of people who have done me wrong but I don't plan on killing any of my kids over it. Nor do I plan on killing any of their kids. If you want to believe it's rational to kill kids because someone offended you then I question your rationality.
7. Human sacrifice and the gods who demanded them are the very definition of barbaric and blood thirsty. Killing someone may protect you from someone who seeks to do you harm but it never heals anyone or saves anyone, unless a vengeful god is one demanding blood on your behalf.
@SamWiseGingy --Hi Sam, It appears that you like to promote your theory, but that you don't much like to listen. That's fine. When you create ex nihilo, you may certainly make your own rules.
I just don't understand why you seem to be so angry at a God you don't even believe exists...that seems like the ultimate irrationality to me.
Let's see you believe in angels, devils, Noah's ark, talking snakes, magic trees, blood sacrifices, holy books, talking donkeys, resurrections, a new heaven and a new earth, walking on water and I'm the irrational one.
Rich indeed.
Even if you believe natural processes could not have created what we know to be the universe then why do you suppose that your god created the universe and not Zeus or some other deity?
Hi again. I haven't used this channel in ages, so that's why it took me so long.
Anyway, what you keep missing when you say, "Your God was satisfied with human sacrifice. How do you feel about that?" is the fact that Jesus was God as well as man. He just covered his glory in humanity. Have you ever heard of the concept of the trinity??? I don't mean that condescendingly, I'm just wondering.
Even if Jesus was also god that wouldn't change the fact that he was human. Hebrews 2
The trinity is irrational and has no appeal to reason and the only reason you believe in it is because it is a necessary part of the rationalization of your faith.
You don't have to believe in my faith, but at least know you're insulting a 13-year-old girl. You keep repeating that my faith is irrational and doesn't appeal to reason.
You know what really doesn't appeal to reason? The fact that the whole world was created out of nothing! And that we evolved from monkeys! That is irrational. People call our religion a fairytale. THAT is a fairytale.
Who cares? Monkeys and apes are from the same family. I made a mistake. I don't spend much time studying HERESY!
And scientists did, the minute they decided that the big bang theory was true. Nothing, nothing, nothing, BANG! World created.
The BIBLE. God does not lie. Okay?
And the reason I believe in my faith is because it brings me joy, peace, and hope. I share that with you, and you get volatile! Because you know you're wrong! You KNOW in your heart that there is a God.
Those scientists just don't know Jesus and the Bible do they. If they did they wouldn't spend all that time thinking and researching. Those stupid idiots.
I never said scientists were stupid. And it's a good thing to research. What I'm saying is dumb and wrong is that they replace God with science. Scientists are, most of them, geniuses as far as IQ goes.
And just so you know, I don't have any kids to terrorize. I'M THIRTEEN! AND MY PARENTS DON'T FORCE ME INTO CHRISTIANITY! God had set me aside from the foundations of the earth to be called one of His?
Why don't you believe in God, Sam? Just a basic question. Why?
@SamWiseGingy the evidence is in the bible if there was no god no heaven no hell what is the point of liFe. life would be pointless. Gen 1:1 in the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth". this makes sense the bang theory does not. place a stick of dynomite in an open field when it explodes is there a barn? no! ther is crater in the ground. Just think about it and you will find that creation By GOD is the only logical explanation.
@loveICBCamp You have a dependence on a nonexistent invisible being and you think everyone else is as dependent as you are, or at least ought to be. Your pastor did that to you because the more you need god the more you need the Church.
There is nothing logical about heaven, hell, angels, demons, and all of that stuff. Use your reason and your courage.
@SamWiseGingy Your reasons, logic and intelligence don't coincide our Faith (That's why it is called faith). I'm sorry to tell you that. You won't understand these spiritual things unless you willingly drop your logical reasoning. That's all. So if you want to call us "fools, stupid and idiots", then fine. It is okay for me to be a fool, believing in a one true God, experiencing great joy, love and peace than to be a genius not experiencing true inner love, joy and peace. We love you in Christ.
You said: "I'm sorry to tell you that. You won't understand these spiritual things unless you willingly drop your logical reasoning. "
My response:
That' the point. Once you have dropped your "logical reasoning" you will be anything! Angels, demons, heaven, hell, holy books, holy men, and any thing else. So you have no way of judging the truth and social implications of your faith.
God--the God of the Bible, not the freakish caricature you rail against--has created each of us with free will. So you may choose a life without Him, and He will let you. If He won't force you to change your mind, I know I certainly can't. However, He's commissioned believers to warn you that the eternal results will be awful for you. He is light--hell is eternal darkness. He is the Comforter--hell is eternity with no comfort. He is the Everlasting Father--hell is eternity with no relationship.
He is the Mighty God--hell is eternity with no one to come to your rescue. He is the Prince of Peace--hell is eternity with continual distress. He is the Way--hell is being eternally lost. He is the Truth--hell is eternally being at the mercy of lies and misunderstanding. He is the Life--hell is the eternal forfeiture of your life's purpose. God is love--hell is an eternity of nobody caring for you at all.
You can rage all you want, but ultimately you will get what you desire.
So will punish me for being convinced of his existence or the validity of his revelation rather than provide evidence.
Okay, so be it.
If your god is pleased to have me tortured for eternity because I refuse to believe ideas with no appeal to reason then I don't want anything to do with your god.
You speak like a person who believes before you are afraid not to. That is why you need to use fear to convince me.
@SamWiseGingy Hi, Sam--I am stating propositional truth, and I am aware of that. In my opinion, you are not really looking for "an appeal to reason," and in fact, may be incapable of doing anything more than repeating your odd little talking points. You've said the same thing over and over again. It doesn't even seem original, as I've heard these identical phrases from others. You're just parroting things you've heard elsewhere, thinking you sound smart because you reject the Bible.
It is actually you who have no evidence for your opinion. C.S. Lewis, an honest man with a real intellect, pointed out one of the main problems with your materialistic worldview when he said, "If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning; just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning." Materialism can never answer the question of right vs. wrong.
Yet you, as a self-avowed materialist, can't leave the issue of "right and wrong" alone. You are impelled to cruise YouTube, looking for Christians to badger with your nonsensical assertions about a God you don't even believe in. What's the point? Why don't you get a productive hobby?
Incidentally, if you believe an eternity without God to be "torture," maybe you should look into His provision of salvation more seriously. Just sayin'...
1. Your revelation says so but you have no evidence.
2. No I wasn't a traitor before I was born. I have no reason to believe in angels, much less fallen angels. What is your evidence for angels? Have you ever seen one?
3. Your god is angry at me and must do exactly as you say or bad things will happen to me.
Do you have any evidence of this? besides your revelation.
4. That's what your revelation says, but again do have any evidence for this fanciful tale?
@SamWiseGingy The wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23) Anything that is not perfect is deserving of death. What's hilarious is that you are overlooking the fact that Isa 53:5 is written 700 years before Jesus ever shows up on the scene. It's a prophetic passage with clear intention. Furthermore, primitiveness isn't a reason to discard something as factual and I seriously doubt that paying the sin-debt for all humanity is counter-productive.
@SamWiseGingy You said "So you have no way of judging the truth". Okay. That's the word we are trying to be cleared. The word "truth". In general, we don't know the "Truth" for now. This time, you have your own truth, I have my own truth. We can have different truths. You can point to me that your ideology is the truth. I, in return, could point that the Bible is the truth. So calling atheistic things is the one and only Truth, is preposterous.
No you can't have your own truths. You can have your opinion about what's true. There either is or isn't a supreme being that created the universe. There either is or isn't a sun. It is either true or false that angels and demons exist.
Your holy book is either the product of some divine intervention of the being you call God or it just a human invention.
The idea that each can have their own truth is patent nonsense.
@SamWiseGingy So if your "opinion about what's true" is your term, then so be it. Everyone else is entitled to make their opinion about what is true. You can't force us to suddenly believe to your ideologies by merely expounding your misinterpretations about the scriptures or the Bible. We Christians are trying to help or to elucidate about your misunderstandings of the Bible. If you are considering to suddenly drop our faith by your ideologies, sorry to tell you, you are wasting your time here.
@SamWiseGingy "truth appeals reason. . . science is a better method for discovering truth". Here again, the word "Truth". This conversation has begun to circle. "as far as physical universe is concerned". We are believing in a triune God, not because we are pursuing more logical explanation to this complex physical universe. It is beyond human logic and limitation. If you want "logic", here's the thing: "It is more logical to believe we are created than to believe we came from absolute nothing."
Your just making up stuff that makes you feel better. That's all. Your beliefs have basis in fact so you are rationalizing away the importance of fact and reason.
@SamWiseGingy As long as I can corroborate my belief, of course, based on the facts, I will continue to believe it. As I see you treat conversation, you are not answering back my argument. You blurt out another argument. You're making yourself pointless. Isn't that making up stuff that will make you better? I digress. Simple question SamWiseGingy, do you agree that there is a good and bad? Why only humans do have good and bad? Please answer this.
Humans have social instincts, just like every other social animal. We know the difference between our interests and the interests of our community. We known what behaviors are likely to harm community and what behaviors are likely to enhance community.
Your moral guide, the Bible condoned slavery. So much for a divinely revealed moral order.
@SamWiseGingy What "facts"? Here are some secular facts: Bible is very accurate in terms of geography. Since the time of Noah in Ur to Apostles in Jerusalem to Rome. Another, not only the Bible has the records of King David, and Jesus Christ and many prophets. There are accredited Scholars and Historians recorded Jesus existence. Search it for yourself.
I am not saying socials. I am saying morals. Provide me proof that animals have morals.
Social instincts = morals, and humans had them all along.
Condoned slavery, Colossians 4: 1 Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven. There are a several similar verses. When Paul gives instructions to masters on how to treat slaves rather than instructing them to free slaves that's condoning slavery.
@SamWiseGingy I have no point of elaborating this argument since, you do not understand about socials and morals.
Here, Paul didn't condemn nor condone earthly slavery. Clearly, there is no wrong about slavery. Unless, their masters were just and fair. In fact, we Christians are slave to our Master in Heaven, which is Christ. The word slavery has been deteriorated by the world. Slave means, possession but not in full control. Slave, in our modern times,can be manservant or maidservant.
@SamWiseGingy I presumed that you have not read the New Testament, because, if you have read it, you already understand it. Bible shouldn't be read bits by bits and most of all, superficially. For instance, Matthew 5: 27 - 30. When I read the Bible, I am asking that the Lord that He give me wisdom and guidance so that I can understand these things. It never fails.
No, just like every other believer you sift through and find what you like and ignore the rest. Whatever doesn't fit your preconceived notion is just ignored.
I notice you are avoiding the issue of slavery in the NT. Typical.
You assert that the Bible is a good moral guide even though it sanctions slavery. That's one of many absurdities in Christianity.
How reasonable is to believe that dead people will rise to life and live forever? How reasonable is it to believe that angels, devils and any of that kind of stuff nothing more than myth? Reasonable people don't believe in absurdities.
@SamWiseGingy See. Now I can't,in any way,assert you are a reasonable person.You didn't answer what am I "avoiding".I just explained to you slavery.What's your problem?What I see here, you are keeping your mind closed,just repeating and repeating the same context. In fact, We don't have the lost here.We are Christians,does that fact make you counterproductive? Then why spread atheism? Why debunk other's belief if that, obviously,can't affect your life or your belief nor can't do anything to you?
@johnzeusleopard14 Because you unreasonable people vote. When people who believe in angels, demons, heaven, hell, messiahs who are coming any day, and who happen to be science haters vote that has very dire consequences for society.
@SamWiseGingy Slavery? Please read my previous comments here. Now, you blurted out about voting, which I can't find reasonable enough to stop to believe to God. Dire consequence? Please, provide that there is a very efficient godless society, to date.I have no intention anymore to continue this conversation. Sorry for the harsh words I've said to you. Say whatever you want to say here. But please, do open your heart. Mind can't work with these things.Re-read the Bible with heart open. God bless.
why place so many people in such a small box?i go to a christian university and have a professor who teaches creation studies.he's a Ph.D in Neuroscience and his research focus is Alzheimers. he has had over a dozen papers published in science mags. his research is funded by the national institution of health, the largest organization that funds biomedical research in the world. he IS a Christian and he IS a scientist. please think before you freak out and make blanket statements.
@snoboard4yahweh Let's see you know a person that has lots of academic accomplishments who is also a creationist. Perhaps you can tell us his name. Better yet tell us what he has written on the subject. Maybe you could make a video explaining his ideas. Has your expert written on the existence of angels, demons and the resurrection of the dead?
sure thing: David DeWitt, PhD. youtube isnt letting me post the link, but if you google his name and "biochemistry" you should be able to find him. he is a prof at liberty university.
i dont make videos since im not photogenic and dont have a camera anyway. ;)
part of being a Christian is to have an answer for everything. i won't pretend to and im sure you are set on your beliefs so whatever you read you will find other things to want to know about. no one person can tell you.
no one person can tell you, but i encourage you to seek the answers, not just the ones you are looking for or the ones that fit your worldview. keep asking, and looking, and dont be lazy and bias in your research.
also, im an aeronautics major (also a science) so i wont be of much help to you personally. i just wanted to point out that not ALL Christians hate or disrespect science...only some of them, and usually the ones who grew up wanting to be happy in what they were spoon-fed by their churches and parents. intelligent Christians usually like science and education and appreciate it.
This is what I am talking about: Evolution and Really Funny Things, by John Piper. Piper is talking about one of most important scientific ideas in the last 200 years.
The old rugged cross, my joy my crown.
ody4rmzion 4 days ago
Its the power of the floss... cleaning teeth... like a boss... XD
DannyViolinMan 3 weeks ago
Praise God I would have not know joy if it was not for the power of the cross. Christ in me the hope of glory!!!!!
1mericat 2 months ago 2
I love her voice
hanoldwriter 3 months ago
@ndzoko you are referring to the civil laws of the Jewish people, if you knew you're theology instead of trusting you're prejudice you would know that this is a highly flawed argument, if you want me to explain, respond, first you have to see that we all deserve death, then you will see that a just god had to fulfill his justification by sending his own son to die. One day after years of being like you I found that I was in a conflict with an invincible god and that all the justification went t
stepharnos 3 months ago
Heard this story the other day of an open air preacher who every day in his congregation would have a proud atheist who would heckle, one day a homeless man walked between the minister and the atheist and the atheist said "communism can but a new coat on that man" and the minister said "but Christianity can put a new man in that coat" this is the truth that we live by
stepharnos 3 months ago
Jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus jesus hail jesus jesus jesus hail jesus jesusThe very fact that you write 2012, and not 5000 something as the date, is because of Jesus the date changed into the era of the new testement
fs93543 3 months ago
The song is beautiful because it describes our Holy God who LOVES a sinful people so much that He sent the Son of God to die in our place so that we could truly live. Jesus came to save the sinner not the righteous. I believe that means all of us... .That is true power....true love.... that the Creator of this world would lay his life down for me a sinner. This is the word of God!!!
romans828promise 3 months ago
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The power of god :Witches, kill them. Homosexuals, kill them.fortunetellers, kill them. those who don`t listen to priests, kill them. those hitting their dad, kill them. those who curse their parents, kill them, adulterers, kill them. fornicators, kill them. people who believe in other religions, kill them. non-believers,kill them. fals prohets ,kill them. blasphemers, kill them. those who work on the Sabbath, kill them. This is the word of god !!
ndzoko 3 months ago
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beautiful song...so sobering.
LaughtersMedicine 4 months ago
beautiful song...so sobering.
LaughtersMedicine 4 months ago
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Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Died 4 U He died for you accept Him into your heart I promise you, you will find peace, it is a gift
Str8Kingdom 4 months ago
Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Jesus Died 4 U He died for you accept Him into your heart I promise you, you will find peace, it is a gift
Str8Kingdom 4 months ago 4
God loves every simple things. Christianity and Faith are not complicated. As you hear this beautiful song, and if your are a human being, you'll be able to feal your heart beating. If you listen carfully, you'll hear God saying "I love you, I love you, I love you..."
I'm glad to belong to the family of God, and I can't wait to meet you in Heaven, my brother, my sister in Christ because I love you too.
GBU
guitalien 4 months ago
I love her accent! :D This song is also amazing!!! :D One of my very favorit songs. I sang this at a state competition. and I got 4th place. I was Glad that I placed, but I was also glad to praise my Lord Jesus Christ! The power of the cross has surly broken many proud hearts and it has broken mine. I am VERY glad that it did! Praise God!
1goldHeart 4 months ago
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@SamWiseGingy WHEN ADAM AND EVE ATE OF THAT TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL AND SINNED THEY FELL SLAVES TO SIN, DRAGGED BY CHAINS OF DARKNESS, BY THE DEVIL... YOU SAMWISE, ARE A SLAVE TO SIN WITHOUT GOD... I KNOW FOR SURE THAT IF YOU LET GOD FREE YOU FROM YOUR LIFE OF SLAVERY TO SIN, YOU'D ZIP IT ON THESE VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE!!! THEN MAYBE YOU'D UNDERSTAND SOME PEOPLE ON HERE... TIL THEN MAKE LIKE A TREE, AND LEAVE!!!
geoyang89 4 months ago
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geoyang89 4 months ago
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geoyang89 4 months ago
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geoyang89 4 months ago
Why dont you guys use scripture when you argue? Better yet, why dont you go somewhere else and do it. This is a beautiful song, lets talk about IT.
Fools! Go argue in private.
caz1231 4 months ago
I think I would enjoy this debate but I think both of you, SamWiseGingy and bloodseal6, should move this debate to the personal messages to save any more hastle, especially from people like furpurr who pretend their message is full of emotion when they just copy and paste it to every single video with a hint of a debate.
TheMessiersAndromeda 4 months ago
How beautiful! Glory to our Sovereign Lord!
SupremeHero777 5 months ago
what a beautiful song!
shantrie 5 months ago
The victory of God over all in the cross, We dont have any idea of that terrible moment...
gabrielvz100 5 months ago
The victory of God over all in the cross, We dont have any idea of that terrible moment...
gabrielvz100 5 months ago
I love this song so much! The BJU team sing it so wonderfully. I am so glad it was included in the new Majesty Hymnal :D So amazing!
TheStaticoss 5 months ago
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SAMWISE GINGY, ET. AL.: how about just discussing what a great song this is, how beautiful her voice is, & how moving you find it {if you do}, rather than covering the entire comment page with comments that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any of the above? How insulting toward the Gettys you ALL have been, & how disrespectful. For shame!!
Why do so many find it impossible to come on these pages & merely critique the performance, w/o spinning off into a debate w/no end?!?
furpurr 5 months ago
This truly accomplishes your goal of bringing worship and prayer to my soul, and I listen to it every morning as I prepare for work. It starts my day out right. Thank you from Canada. Blessings on both of your heads, for bringing truth and the light of God's love to millions. I am sure God will say to you, Well done, good and faithful servants.
TheBeliefBeyond 5 months ago
The title of the video SAYS "The Power Of The Cross"... If you have doubt or disbelief in Christianity, then videos like this probably are not something you'll enjoy. Look up videos more related to your interests. Monkey evolution, Charles Darwin documentaries? They're on YouTube. But annoying other people with your unpleasant comments is gaining you nothing. Feel free to just avoid these types of videos, for everyone's sake, please.
ameliajaybee 6 months ago 28
@ameliajaybee
You're stereotyping is not appreciated, thanks. Our interests are in music, laughter, friends, family, love. We are not all interested in monkey evolution or Darwin. They are not part of our belief system - in fact we don't have a belief system - more a lack of belief. We too can be transcended by any music, so I'll thank you keep your prejudices to yourself.
TheMessiersAndromeda 4 months ago
This version is my favourite : ) : ) : )
Richo1234able 6 months ago
samwise why do you continue to intentionally come to Christian videos & stir up dissension & anger?? do you enjoy it so very much? it's pitiful & sad of you. can you not just come in to enjoy the song & the performers?? the gettys are WONDERFUL performers, very talented, very blessed! how utterly disrespectful you are being towards them!! grow up, sir.
furpurr 6 months ago 11
@furpurr I provide a platform for you to tell me just how reasonable it is to believe in the ideas that you believe in and govern your lives by. Surely you have good rational reasons for the ideas that govern your lives and the ideas that you wish to use to form our society.
SamWiseGingy 4 months ago
I have read a slight piece of the conversation here and I am a little lost. I see the assertions about the bible being a "good" guide and I put that in quotes so as to not offend anyone and I also see the assertion that that the bible is flawed and sanctions slavery. Now I am curious If you would please explain how the bible condones slavery. I am a Christian. I would like to understand your point of view and see exactly what you mean.
bloodseal6 7 months ago
@bloodseal6 Leviticus 25 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
SamWiseGingy 6 months ago
@bloodseal6
Col: 3 22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the L. as a reward. It is the L. C. you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.
SamWiseGingy 6 months ago
@SamWiseGingy also I apologize about the huge gap in time.
bloodseal6 5 months ago
@bloodseal6
Colossians 4 1 Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.
SamWiseGingy 6 months ago
@bloodseal6 I sorry I thought you knew the Bible.
Here are some of the many verses that talk about slavery. I am sure you have heard them preached on.
SamWiseGingy 6 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Heavens no, I am by no means an expert on the bible. I just wanted to read the passages that you chose in order to see your side. Now this is a very touchy topic especially from a cultural standpoint. I guess the first thing I would like is for you Sam to define why slavery is bad. I have an idea but I need it in your own words so as to not step on toes or misunderstand.
bloodseal6 5 months ago
@bloodseal6
Part 2 Frederick Douglas continued: I have found that, to make a contented slave, it is necessary to make a thoughtless one. It is necessary to darken his moral and mental vision, and, as far as possible, to annihilate the power of reason. He must be able to detect no inconsistencies in slavery; he must be made to feel that slavery is right; and he can be brought to that only when he ceased to be a man."
SamWiseGingy 5 months ago
@SamWiseGingy ok I understand and agree with Douglas and his view. Now I have to draw your attention to the fact that this world is one of sin and evil. God does not prefer slavery but allows it. He doesn't say go get slaves, but rather says if you are to have them this is what you are to do and how to treat them. Like i previously stated because of our sinful nature if God were to completely abolish slavery He would have to take free will from man.
bloodseal6 5 months ago
@bloodseal6 Yeah sure. God just let humanity suffer through a few more thousand years of slavery because it was really the best thing for all concerned, really. Yada yada. I don't know which ChristiansIt's I have the least respect for, the ones who can justify slavery or the ones who can't. That whole fallen world is good cover for an all loving and powerful god isn't it? If it weren't for the fall you would have to admit the obvious, that either god is a beast or he doesn't exist.
SamWiseGingy 5 months ago
@SamWiseGingy If it weren't for the fall then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. You also forgot to mention that He is a jealous and holy God. Now I know the last sentence in your reply is an attempt to start a new discussion, so I will entertain the thought. Why is God a beast or non existant.
bloodseal6 5 months ago
@bloodseal6 The fall is nothing more than a fabrication to answer the problem of evil. It's man's fault. If I wrote a computer program that blew up world because the user pressed ctrl alt ` then you say the program had a design error. You wouldn't say user error. Now that we know about microbes it hard to blame sickness on sin. Now that we know about plate tectonics, it is hard to blame earth quakes on God. All you are doing is using myth to justify myth.
SamWiseGingy 5 months ago
@SamWiseGingy ok as you probably already know this will become a stalemate without concessions. For one, I am trying to explain things from a Christian perspective and I am unsure if you believe God is real or not. If you don't believe He is real think about this image. If there is a piece of art in a museum then the rational thought is that there is an artist who created that art. The same applies for a building there had to be a builder. What then of the known universe? What of the unknown?
bloodseal6 5 months ago
@bloodseal6
Part 1 You said: "define why slavery is bad."
My answer is from Frederick Douglas who hated slavery because it dehumanizes people: "I have observed this in my experience of slavery, - that whenever my condition was improved, instead of its increasing my contentment, it only increased my desire to be free, and set me to thinking of plans to gain my freedom.
SamWiseGingy 5 months ago
@bloodseal6 So that means a builder or a painter created the world? Who created a star, or did stars come to be by natural processes. How about a tree. Was a tree designed or do trees exist and propagate by natural process.
Even if I allow for conversation that it is necessary for a god to exist to have a world like ours you still need evidence that it was your god and not Zeus or some other god(s).
SamWiseGingy 5 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Before you can be so strongly against something, you must first have a good knowledge of it. Read the bible and you will know if God exists or not and I will pray that God will provide you an opportunity to get to know him.
teadogs10 4 months ago
@teadogs10 Why do you presume that I have not read the Bible? I assure I have. There are many to have read the Bible and don't believe. In fact the best way to convince someone of the irrationality of the Christian faith is to get them to read the Bible honestly and not just cherry pick verses that they like.
SamWiseGingy 4 months ago
@SamWiseGingy In reference to the tree comment I believe the answer to be both, God designed the tree and the natural process it follows. True, evidence is necessary to prove God exists, but if you were to accurately review the statement I believe you might come to the conclusion that you cannot state that there is no proof just like I cannot state that there is apart from the bible and the historical value it has etc.
bloodseal6 4 months ago
@bloodseal6 You confuse proof for arguments. Christians have many arguments. None of them meet any standard of reason or proof, and nearly all of them are designed to create an illusion of rationality for believers.
SamWiseGingy 4 months ago
@SamWiseGingy I did no such thing my friend. Forgive me if I sound a bit brash, but I am not setting up arguments like you claim. I am merely stating what I know. To be completely fair Sam, if I may call you that, it takes two individuals to argue. Now like I previously stated I am not trying to argue or come across as argumentative I am strictly trying to get to know you and your point of view as it pertains to Christianity and God.
bloodseal6 4 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Now I think you have a good point with your comment about the standard of reason. My question to you would be what lens do you view your standard of reason through? It is necessary that you define the standard of reason as well because if I don't know your standard how could I respond accurately?
bloodseal6 4 months ago
@bloodseal6 I make no special metaphysical categories for a god or "spiritual" realities. That is what believers do. I view god, Bible and Jesus just like I view any other history or judgement of fact.
SamWiseGingy 4 months ago
@bloodseal6 The Bible asserts that there are angels. Unless you can tell me how it is reasonable to believe in angels then you can't assert the reliably of the Bible especially on anything "supernatural."
"Might come to the conclusion" is hardly a convincing argument now is it?
SamWiseGingy 4 months ago
@bloodseal6 Do you have a concordance? There are many on line look up slavery. You will see slavery condoned in the old and new testaments. Lev. 25, Exodus 21, and nearly every letter that Paul wrote. So anyone who asserts that the Bible is good moral book is obligated to defend slavery. If you really want to me look up the verses I can do it for you.
SamWiseGingy 4 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Ok Sam I thought we were passed this with respect to slavery. God doesn't condone it but rather allows it. since you think the fall is a myth how do you explain the evil actions of men and women, or the condition of the heart?
bloodseal6 4 months ago
@bloodseal6 You may forgive the Bible for condoning slavery, but that is not a rational thing to do. You can't say the Bible is a moral guide without also saying slavery is moral.
Evil actions are easy to explain if you believe humans evolved from apes. We are just apes who learned how to drive and make explosives. In fact that is very good explanation for the state of the world.
SamWiseGingy 4 months ago
@SamWiseGingy you are right it isn't rational. Actually Christianity is far from rational it is the most radical in terms of belief. It isn't the bible that is the moral guide but the one who wrote/inspired it. Christ is my moral guide. You, however, cannot say that Christ isn't a moral guide without believing in Him, or following His teaching.
So, you believe in the Big Bang Theory? Are these apes that we evolved from inherently evil? How do you define evil? Where is it from? Can one be good?
bloodseal6 4 months ago
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geoyang89 4 months ago
As i watch this im brought close to tears. Christ could love us so much. I pray for all those so called celebrities who have been carried away by material things. I pray for people who follow them along, Lord in a world like this, show your grace. I await you.
Amen :)
iHeartmusic424 7 months ago
to all those who think "dropping logical reasoning" as inferior. You drop your reasoning to something you can not comprehend. that thing is BEYOND science.. Bible and Christ are not falsified or proven wrong by science... the fact is that Science has no explanation for that.can the creation analyse and bring out Its creator in numbers and statistics.Christ and Bible are neither non-existent nor against science.but simply beyond the human limitations of reason and logic... after all He created us
Knightjaaz 7 months ago
Why can't big bang theory exist? who else, but God can make something so great from...... nothing?
godfajza 7 months ago
hhaha why are you guys making fun of scientists? a lot of scientists are christian, you'll see that they aren't contradicting, they are parallel ( unless you're talking about evolution ). when dr hawkings and his partner found that the universe came from NOTHING, they both immediately came to two conclusions. Hawkings believed " we must have done some calculations wrong" the partner went away and said " There must be a God."
godfajza 7 months ago 2
If you liked or didn't like this, please go to heart publications and look for the CD called "Give Me Jesus" there is another version of this song it is track 5. Please listen to it!
funnies2011 8 months ago
I read all the "banter" below and can't help but be drawn back to the verse not to throw your "pearls" before swine. The spiritual, the miraculous, these are realms which cannot be dissected with earthly materialistic hearts and minds. I would have to say you ask me how I KNOW he lives.....HE LIVES WITHIN MY HEART!!! You can never convince me otherwise. I'll take my "foolishness" as you call it and proclaim to the highest heaven. My Redeemer lives!!!
mygodisfaithful 8 months ago
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@mygodisfaithful
In other words you have no evidence.
SamWiseGingy 8 months ago
I don't believe in god or even any existence after death but I can't help but feel something uplifting when I listen to this song.
cjspartacus 8 months ago
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Jesus loves you!
njmiller5 8 months ago
luv this song!
stingraycheerco 9 months ago
she's so pretty :)
mandalars93 9 months ago
Always moving and inspiring, may God continue to reach his creation through the beautiful ministry of the Gettys!
dominicsquibb23 9 months ago
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The preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that perish, but unto us which are "saved", it is the power of God
harmonno98 10 months ago
Oh my Jesus, how miserable I would be without You!!! Thank You for bearing all my sins on the Cross, all tho it wasn't my sins that held you to the Cross, it was your great love for me that held you to the Cross!! Thank You!!
"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Romans 5:8
188metalhead881 10 months ago 2
Now that is a profound response.
Hard to give a rational answer for a god who is pleased with human blood isn't it.
Why do you presume that I have not read the Bible just because I don't believe in it?
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
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For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those who are being saved it is the power of God.
pianoquizzer 11 months ago
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pianoquizzer 11 months ago
@SamWiseGingy, when someone puts faith in science and human hands for medical care, one gets a misguided view that everything can be solved with human ingenuity. However, the result of this thinking is one man trying to find the solution to a problem and gets a bill called health care that is transforming this nation to a tyranny.
pianoquizzer 11 months ago
@pianoquizzer
Well dude, the next time you are have a medical need I suggest you seek out a faith healer.
In so doing you will improve the gene pool by helping to remove yourself from it.
Once again faith feels threatened by science. Indeed faith should threatened by knowledge. Science is built on reason and faith is built on superstitious none sense.
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Science is a gift from God. Faith is not threatened by science, we use science to help benefit us. Plus you don't even know what the song is talking about. You assume that Christians believe in voo-doo magic to heal us we don't seek "faith healers". What we do believe is that God will take care of us and provides resources such as medical care to keep us healthy.
pianoquizzer 11 months ago
@pianoquizzer
Science is the work of humanity. Your god had nothing to do with it. Beliefs in god/gods are an interference to science and always have been. The more religious a culture is the less rational a culture is.
That is why religious institutions, especially the church has advocated against science for the past twenty centuries. If you read a little history you would know as much.
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Plus, the song talks about how we are saved from our sins because of Christ's death as our perfect sacrifice. Not a blood offering for healing of sickness. The least you can do is listen to the song.
pianoquizzer 11 months ago
@pianoquizzer
At least you could have listened to the scripture she read. "with his stripes we are healed"
No the blood of Jesus doesn't save you from your sins it saves you from a vindictive god who is angry at you because of your sin. There is a big difference. This blood appeases the wrath of your god. Doesn't that sound like a primitive mythology to you?
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
Comment removed
pianoquizzer 11 months ago
Wounds don't heal. Medical care heals. Medical care based on science. Blood sacrifices and human sacrifices are ancient myths and avail nothing. The cures to humanity's ills will come by humanity's hands or they will not come at all.
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Even if your naturalistic assumptions are correct, how many martyrs have purchased your freedom to say what you wish? How many have died to heal the curse of tyranny? In the same vein Christ has purchased freedom from the curse and tyranny of sin! He was pierced for our transgression, and crushed for our iniquities and by His wounds we are healed. (Isaiah 53 ; 700 years before Christ.)
Templarkommando 11 months ago
@Templarkommando
And who did Jesus purchase my freedom from?
Your god that's who.
A god that is pleased by the death of his son and satisfied by his blood.
Can you think of a circumstance that you be satisfied by your child's blood.
The whole idea of blood sacrifice in nothing but primitive superstition. Period.
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
@SamWiseGingy I specifically stated that our freedom was purchased from sin. So, no. We sold ourselves into bondage to sin, not God. Does evil deserve to be punished? Of course it does! For, the wages of sin is death! So, Christ took the punishment we deserved upon himself and paid the debt for our sin.
The age of a belief is an illegitimate argument. The Bible says that murder is evil, and is written in the same Torah that prescribes blood sacrifice. Is not murdering primitive superstition?
Templarkommando 11 months ago
@Templarkommando
"Our freedom was purchased from sin," Please tell me what kind of entity this "sin" is that can transact business using the currency of blood.
All you have ancient mythology with magic blood, and holy books.
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Before commenting about what the Bible says, read it for yourself so you can take it in context.
Plus our freedom is not a business transaction, it is a gift from God by his grace. I don't even deserve to go to heaven, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
pianoquizzer 11 months ago
@pianoquizzer
You believe that a human blood sacrifice appeased an angry god, and you call that love and justice. I call it ancient superstition.
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
@SamWiseGingy If you think that this country should be without religion then you should move to China, but we live in America and I have a right to believe whatever I want. And before you say what I believe, I encourage you to read the Bible so you can know what I truly believe. Until then I pray that God will have mercy on your soul, because I am done throwing my pearl unto swine. I am finished with this conversation.
pianoquizzer 11 months ago
@pianoquizzer Now that is a profound response.
Hard to give a rational answer for a god who is pleased with human blood isn't it.
Why do you presume that I have not read the Bible just because I don't believe in it?
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Do evil deeds deserve to be punished? Of course they do! We deserve to pay the price for our sin, but Christ has taken that punishment upon himself, which is what is meant when Isaiah says that "by his wounds we are healed."
Once again, the age of my source has nothing to do with its truth or falsity. If that were the case we would have to discount atomic theory because Democritus conceived of it 400 years before Christianity. So, all you have is ancient books too.
Templarkommando 11 months ago
@Templarkommando
"Do evil deeds deserve to be punished?"
Some of them I suppose. The problem with your god is punishes sins by killing people. If you did something evil against me I may forgive you and I may not but I don't think killing my son would help any thing. I don't know about you but the idea of human blood sacrifices sounds pretty counter productive and primitive to me especially when most of the these sins are fairly trivial.
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
First of all, God is perfect and holy, and cannot accept even trivial sins.
And you say he sent Jesus to die almost as if that is a bad thing. Let me tell you: it is a wonderful thing. And Jesus's death is significant because Jesus lived a perfect and holy life. He was sent to die for us. His perfect blood washed away our sins, and he took them upon himself. Do you know what grace means? Jesus is grace incarnate. God could've forgotten about us. But instead he sent Christ.
inchristalone05 10 months ago
@inchristalone05
You are just repeating dogma and you aren't thinking about what you are saying. Your god killed a human as a sacrifice for sins. A human sacrifice for sins. Blood sacrifice for sins. God's idea.
Doesn't all of that sound like it was out of a very primitive age with a primitive god?
If you did something to me I may or may not forgive you but I'm not going to kill anyone, except perhaps you if your crime against me was serious enough.
SamWiseGingy 10 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
Actually, I did think A LOT about what I said.
And God did not kill a human as a sacrifice for our sins. Jesus was fully God and fully man. And it wasn't like God was just like, "Hey, Jesus, I'm gonna kill you." Jesus is eternal, and existed before coming to earth clothed in manhood. He came knowing exactly what He was going to do one day. He did it willingly. God didn't kill a random human. Jesus knew why He was here.
You are trampling over the cross without even caring.
inchristalone05 10 months ago
@inchristalone05
"fully man" and if Jesus was not killed then he was raised from the dead.
So make up your mind. Either you are defending Christianity or you aren't.
If you deny either that Jesus died or was human then you are denying Christianity.
"Behold the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world."
If that is not describing a sacrifice then the words in the Bible have no meaning.
So you believe in god who is satisfied with human sacrifice. How do you feel about that?
SamWiseGingy 10 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
Without a doubt, I am defending Christianity. I did not deny that Jesus was killed. He indeed was. And He indeed rose from the dead.
And I said that Jesus was both God AND man. You deny it simply because it is something you cannot understand. And I am not saying that I fully understand either, but I do believe it.
So God wasn't JUST satisfied with a human sacrifice. He was satisfied with the sacrifice of God as man.
inchristalone05 10 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
John 12:27
"Now my heart is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour." -Jesus
inchristalone05 10 months ago
@inchristalone05
So which is it. Was Jesus a human sacrifice or not?
SamWiseGingy 10 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
Yes and no.
Jesus was fully man AND fully God.
It was a human sacrifice because Jesus was a man; but it wasn't primitive or savage like you make it out to be.
inchristalone05 10 months ago
@inchristalone05
No it was one of those modern reasonable human sacrifices. Do go on.
SamWiseGingy 10 months ago
@SamWiseGingy --Hi Sam, Maybe I can provide a bit of clarification.
1. The Lord Jesus Christ is God the Son. The "Second Person of the Trinity." Co-creator, co-ruler of the universe. No decision about anything was made without His making it in complete agreement with the Father and the Spirit.
2. The sin of Lucifer and all the fallen angels (now demons), the sin of Adam & Eve, and the sin worthy of the death penalty that each of us commits is the same--treason.
lexieforbes 9 months ago
We question whether our Creator has any right to be our Sovereign, and we decide He does not.
3. No Sovereign allows rebellious traitors to remain within the comfort and protection of the realm, but rather exiles or executes them. Our decision to commit treason put us in this horrible position. Actions have consequences.
4. But God didn't want to leave us under the condemnation we so justly deserved. He decided to take our death penalty on Himself. Jesus came, lived, died, and rose again.
lexieforbes 9 months ago
5. So it's not really a "human sacrifice" or a "blood sacrifice" in the sense you indicate. It was, rather, a substitutionary death "the just for the unjust...to bring us to God."
6. "God demonstrates His love for us in this: while we were still sinners (treasonous rebels) Christ died for us."
7. The love of God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is hardly as barbaric and bloodthirsty as you seem to believe, but rather dedicated and determined to meet our extreme need of rescue.
lexieforbes 9 months ago
@lexieforbes
5. According to your revelation Jesus was human, Jesus was a sacrifice. Jesus pleased your god. Therefore your god was pleased with a human sacrifice. Unless of course you want to deny your revelation.
6. I know lots of people who have done me wrong but I don't plan on killing any of my kids over it. Nor do I plan on killing any of their kids. If you want to believe it's rational to kill kids because someone offended you then I question your rationality.
SamWiseGingy 9 months ago
@lexieforbes
7. Human sacrifice and the gods who demanded them are the very definition of barbaric and blood thirsty. Killing someone may protect you from someone who seeks to do you harm but it never heals anyone or saves anyone, unless a vengeful god is one demanding blood on your behalf.
SamWiseGingy 9 months ago
@SamWiseGingy --Hi Sam, It appears that you like to promote your theory, but that you don't much like to listen. That's fine. When you create ex nihilo, you may certainly make your own rules.
I just don't understand why you seem to be so angry at a God you don't even believe exists...that seems like the ultimate irrationality to me.
lexieforbes 9 months ago
@lexieforbes
Let's see you believe in angels, devils, Noah's ark, talking snakes, magic trees, blood sacrifices, holy books, talking donkeys, resurrections, a new heaven and a new earth, walking on water and I'm the irrational one.
Rich indeed.
Even if you believe natural processes could not have created what we know to be the universe then why do you suppose that your god created the universe and not Zeus or some other deity?
SamWiseGingy 9 months ago
@lexieforbes I like to listen, I just don't like to agree with ideas that have no appeal to reason.
Your main reason for me to agree is that I'll go to hell if I don't.
That's terrorism.
SamWiseGingy 9 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
Hi again. I haven't used this channel in ages, so that's why it took me so long.
Anyway, what you keep missing when you say, "Your God was satisfied with human sacrifice. How do you feel about that?" is the fact that Jesus was God as well as man. He just covered his glory in humanity. Have you ever heard of the concept of the trinity??? I don't mean that condescendingly, I'm just wondering.
inchristalone05 8 months ago
@inchristalone05
Even if Jesus was also god that wouldn't change the fact that he was human. Hebrews 2
The trinity is irrational and has no appeal to reason and the only reason you believe in it is because it is a necessary part of the rationalization of your faith.
SamWiseGingy 8 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
You don't have to believe in my faith, but at least know you're insulting a 13-year-old girl. You keep repeating that my faith is irrational and doesn't appeal to reason.
You know what really doesn't appeal to reason? The fact that the whole world was created out of nothing! And that we evolved from monkeys! That is irrational. People call our religion a fairytale. THAT is a fairytale.
inchristalone05 8 months ago
@inchristalone05 Actually the evidence it that we evolved from apes not monkeys.
Who is saying the whole world was created out of nothing?
What is your evidence for any life after death, heaven and hell?
You have no reason for your religion/faith so you terrorize your own children so that they will believe the way you do.
SamWiseGingy 8 months ago
Comment removed
taliagracemusic 8 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
Who cares? Monkeys and apes are from the same family. I made a mistake. I don't spend much time studying HERESY!
And scientists did, the minute they decided that the big bang theory was true. Nothing, nothing, nothing, BANG! World created.
The BIBLE. God does not lie. Okay?
And the reason I believe in my faith is because it brings me joy, peace, and hope. I share that with you, and you get volatile! Because you know you're wrong! You KNOW in your heart that there is a God.
inchristalone05 8 months ago
@inchristalone05
Those scientists just don't know Jesus and the Bible do they. If they did they wouldn't spend all that time thinking and researching. Those stupid idiots.
SamWiseGingy 8 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
I never said scientists were stupid. And it's a good thing to research. What I'm saying is dumb and wrong is that they replace God with science. Scientists are, most of them, geniuses as far as IQ goes.
inchristalone05 8 months ago 2
@inchristalone05
If you think scientists are smart then why do you reject their findings?
SamWiseGingy 8 months ago
@inchristalone05 just goes to show you that IQ isn't everything.
zegron 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
And just so you know, I don't have any kids to terrorize. I'M THIRTEEN! AND MY PARENTS DON'T FORCE ME INTO CHRISTIANITY! God had set me aside from the foundations of the earth to be called one of His?
Why don't you believe in God, Sam? Just a basic question. Why?
inchristalone05 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@inchristalone05
"God had set me aside from the foundations of the earth to be called one of His?"
Well aren't you special.
SamWiseGingy 8 months ago
@SamWiseGingy the evidence is in the bible if there was no god no heaven no hell what is the point of liFe. life would be pointless. Gen 1:1 in the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth". this makes sense the bang theory does not. place a stick of dynomite in an open field when it explodes is there a barn? no! ther is crater in the ground. Just think about it and you will find that creation By GOD is the only logical explanation.
loveICBCamp 7 months ago
@loveICBCamp You have a dependence on a nonexistent invisible being and you think everyone else is as dependent as you are, or at least ought to be. Your pastor did that to you because the more you need god the more you need the Church.
There is nothing logical about heaven, hell, angels, demons, and all of that stuff. Use your reason and your courage.
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Your reasons, logic and intelligence don't coincide our Faith (That's why it is called faith). I'm sorry to tell you that. You won't understand these spiritual things unless you willingly drop your logical reasoning. That's all. So if you want to call us "fools, stupid and idiots", then fine. It is okay for me to be a fool, believing in a one true God, experiencing great joy, love and peace than to be a genius not experiencing true inner love, joy and peace. We love you in Christ.
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14
You said: "I'm sorry to tell you that. You won't understand these spiritual things unless you willingly drop your logical reasoning. "
My response:
That' the point. Once you have dropped your "logical reasoning" you will be anything! Angels, demons, heaven, hell, holy books, holy men, and any thing else. So you have no way of judging the truth and social implications of your faith.
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
God--the God of the Bible, not the freakish caricature you rail against--has created each of us with free will. So you may choose a life without Him, and He will let you. If He won't force you to change your mind, I know I certainly can't. However, He's commissioned believers to warn you that the eternal results will be awful for you. He is light--hell is eternal darkness. He is the Comforter--hell is eternity with no comfort. He is the Everlasting Father--hell is eternity with no relationship.
lexieforbes 9 months ago
He is the Mighty God--hell is eternity with no one to come to your rescue. He is the Prince of Peace--hell is eternity with continual distress. He is the Way--hell is being eternally lost. He is the Truth--hell is eternally being at the mercy of lies and misunderstanding. He is the Life--hell is the eternal forfeiture of your life's purpose. God is love--hell is an eternity of nobody caring for you at all.
You can rage all you want, but ultimately you will get what you desire.
lexieforbes 9 months ago
@lexieforbes
So you agree that a god that would want a human sacrifice is not worthy of worship. Do we agree on that?
SamWiseGingy 9 months ago
@lexieforbes
So will punish me for being convinced of his existence or the validity of his revelation rather than provide evidence.
Okay, so be it.
If your god is pleased to have me tortured for eternity because I refuse to believe ideas with no appeal to reason then I don't want anything to do with your god.
You speak like a person who believes before you are afraid not to. That is why you need to use fear to convince me.
SamWiseGingy 9 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Hi, Sam--I am stating propositional truth, and I am aware of that. In my opinion, you are not really looking for "an appeal to reason," and in fact, may be incapable of doing anything more than repeating your odd little talking points. You've said the same thing over and over again. It doesn't even seem original, as I've heard these identical phrases from others. You're just parroting things you've heard elsewhere, thinking you sound smart because you reject the Bible.
lexieforbes 9 months ago
It is actually you who have no evidence for your opinion. C.S. Lewis, an honest man with a real intellect, pointed out one of the main problems with your materialistic worldview when he said, "If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning; just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning." Materialism can never answer the question of right vs. wrong.
lexieforbes 9 months ago 2
Yet you, as a self-avowed materialist, can't leave the issue of "right and wrong" alone. You are impelled to cruise YouTube, looking for Christians to badger with your nonsensical assertions about a God you don't even believe in. What's the point? Why don't you get a productive hobby?
lexieforbes 9 months ago 2
Incidentally, if you believe an eternity without God to be "torture," maybe you should look into His provision of salvation more seriously. Just sayin'...
lexieforbes 9 months ago
@lexieforbes
1. Your revelation says so but you have no evidence.
2. No I wasn't a traitor before I was born. I have no reason to believe in angels, much less fallen angels. What is your evidence for angels? Have you ever seen one?
3. Your god is angry at me and must do exactly as you say or bad things will happen to me.
Do you have any evidence of this? besides your revelation.
4. That's what your revelation says, but again do have any evidence for this fanciful tale?
SamWiseGingy 9 months ago
@SamWiseGingy The wages of sin is death. (Romans 6:23) Anything that is not perfect is deserving of death. What's hilarious is that you are overlooking the fact that Isa 53:5 is written 700 years before Jesus ever shows up on the scene. It's a prophetic passage with clear intention. Furthermore, primitiveness isn't a reason to discard something as factual and I seriously doubt that paying the sin-debt for all humanity is counter-productive.
Templarkommando 10 months ago
@SamWiseGingy You said "So you have no way of judging the truth". Okay. That's the word we are trying to be cleared. The word "truth". In general, we don't know the "Truth" for now. This time, you have your own truth, I have my own truth. We can have different truths. You can point to me that your ideology is the truth. I, in return, could point that the Bible is the truth. So calling atheistic things is the one and only Truth, is preposterous.
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14
No you can't have your own truths. You can have your opinion about what's true. There either is or isn't a supreme being that created the universe. There either is or isn't a sun. It is either true or false that angels and demons exist.
Your holy book is either the product of some divine intervention of the being you call God or it just a human invention.
The idea that each can have their own truth is patent nonsense.
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy So if your "opinion about what's true" is your term, then so be it. Everyone else is entitled to make their opinion about what is true. You can't force us to suddenly believe to your ideologies by merely expounding your misinterpretations about the scriptures or the Bible. We Christians are trying to help or to elucidate about your misunderstandings of the Bible. If you are considering to suddenly drop our faith by your ideologies, sorry to tell you, you are wasting your time here.
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14
Those whose opinion of what's true happened to match the truth would be "right" and those whose opinion of what's true would be "wrong".
It is self evident that it is better to be right than wrong, that truth appeals to reason, and that reason appeals to truth.
It is also apparent that science is a better method for discovering truth as far as the physical universe is concerned.
Christian methods of inquiry have not done so well in understanding the physical universe.
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy "truth appeals reason. . . science is a better method for discovering truth". Here again, the word "Truth". This conversation has begun to circle. "as far as physical universe is concerned". We are believing in a triune God, not because we are pursuing more logical explanation to this complex physical universe. It is beyond human logic and limitation. If you want "logic", here's the thing: "It is more logical to believe we are created than to believe we came from absolute nothing."
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14
Your just making up stuff that makes you feel better. That's all. Your beliefs have basis in fact so you are rationalizing away the importance of fact and reason.
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy As long as I can corroborate my belief, of course, based on the facts, I will continue to believe it. As I see you treat conversation, you are not answering back my argument. You blurt out another argument. You're making yourself pointless. Isn't that making up stuff that will make you better? I digress. Simple question SamWiseGingy, do you agree that there is a good and bad? Why only humans do have good and bad? Please answer this.
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14
By what "facts" do you corroborate your belief?
Humans have social instincts, just like every other social animal. We know the difference between our interests and the interests of our community. We known what behaviors are likely to harm community and what behaviors are likely to enhance community.
Your moral guide, the Bible condoned slavery. So much for a divinely revealed moral order.
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy What "facts"? Here are some secular facts: Bible is very accurate in terms of geography. Since the time of Noah in Ur to Apostles in Jerusalem to Rome. Another, not only the Bible has the records of King David, and Jesus Christ and many prophets. There are accredited Scholars and Historians recorded Jesus existence. Search it for yourself.
I am not saying socials. I am saying morals. Provide me proof that animals have morals.
Condoned slavery? Please read the New testament.
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14
Social instincts = morals, and humans had them all along.
Condoned slavery, Colossians 4: 1 Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven. There are a several similar verses. When Paul gives instructions to masters on how to treat slaves rather than instructing them to free slaves that's condoning slavery.
Why do you presume that I have not read the NT?
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy I have no point of elaborating this argument since, you do not understand about socials and morals.
Here, Paul didn't condemn nor condone earthly slavery. Clearly, there is no wrong about slavery. Unless, their masters were just and fair. In fact, we Christians are slave to our Master in Heaven, which is Christ. The word slavery has been deteriorated by the world. Slave means, possession but not in full control. Slave, in our modern times,can be manservant or maidservant.
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy I presumed that you have not read the New Testament, because, if you have read it, you already understand it. Bible shouldn't be read bits by bits and most of all, superficially. For instance, Matthew 5: 27 - 30. When I read the Bible, I am asking that the Lord that He give me wisdom and guidance so that I can understand these things. It never fails.
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14
No, just like every other believer you sift through and find what you like and ignore the rest. Whatever doesn't fit your preconceived notion is just ignored.
I notice you are avoiding the issue of slavery in the NT. Typical.
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Honestly, you made me laugh at this one. You want an explanation, I gave you an explanation. Say, what am I avoiding here?
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14
You assert that the Bible is a good moral guide even though it sanctions slavery. That's one of many absurdities in Christianity.
How reasonable is to believe that dead people will rise to life and live forever? How reasonable is it to believe that angels, devils and any of that kind of stuff nothing more than myth? Reasonable people don't believe in absurdities.
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy See. Now I can't,in any way,assert you are a reasonable person.You didn't answer what am I "avoiding".I just explained to you slavery.What's your problem?What I see here, you are keeping your mind closed,just repeating and repeating the same context. In fact, We don't have the lost here.We are Christians,does that fact make you counterproductive? Then why spread atheism? Why debunk other's belief if that, obviously,can't affect your life or your belief nor can't do anything to you?
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14
Where did you explain slavery?
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14 Because you unreasonable people vote. When people who believe in angels, demons, heaven, hell, messiahs who are coming any day, and who happen to be science haters vote that has very dire consequences for society.
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy Slavery? Please read my previous comments here. Now, you blurted out about voting, which I can't find reasonable enough to stop to believe to God. Dire consequence? Please, provide that there is a very efficient godless society, to date.I have no intention anymore to continue this conversation. Sorry for the harsh words I've said to you. Say whatever you want to say here. But please, do open your heart. Mind can't work with these things.Re-read the Bible with heart open. God bless.
johnzeusleopard14 7 months ago
@johnzeusleopard14
See you have no evidence or reason for your beliefs. Thanks for the conversation.
SamWiseGingy 7 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
why place so many people in such a small box?i go to a christian university and have a professor who teaches creation studies.he's a Ph.D in Neuroscience and his research focus is Alzheimers. he has had over a dozen papers published in science mags. his research is funded by the national institution of health, the largest organization that funds biomedical research in the world. he IS a Christian and he IS a scientist. please think before you freak out and make blanket statements.
snoboard4yahweh 6 months ago
@snoboard4yahweh Let's see you know a person that has lots of academic accomplishments who is also a creationist. Perhaps you can tell us his name. Better yet tell us what he has written on the subject. Maybe you could make a video explaining his ideas. Has your expert written on the existence of angels, demons and the resurrection of the dead?
SamWiseGingy 6 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
sure thing: David DeWitt, PhD. youtube isnt letting me post the link, but if you google his name and "biochemistry" you should be able to find him. he is a prof at liberty university.
i dont make videos since im not photogenic and dont have a camera anyway. ;)
part of being a Christian is to have an answer for everything. i won't pretend to and im sure you are set on your beliefs so whatever you read you will find other things to want to know about. no one person can tell you.
snoboard4yahweh 6 months ago
@SamWiseGingy
(i ran out of characters)
no one person can tell you, but i encourage you to seek the answers, not just the ones you are looking for or the ones that fit your worldview. keep asking, and looking, and dont be lazy and bias in your research.
cheers!
snoboard4yahweh 6 months ago 2
@SamWiseGingy
also, im an aeronautics major (also a science) so i wont be of much help to you personally. i just wanted to point out that not ALL Christians hate or disrespect science...only some of them, and usually the ones who grew up wanting to be happy in what they were spoon-fed by their churches and parents. intelligent Christians usually like science and education and appreciate it.
snoboard4yahweh 6 months ago 2
@snoboard4yahweh
This is what I am talking about: Evolution and Really Funny Things, by John Piper. Piper is talking about one of most important scientific ideas in the last 200 years.
SamWiseGingy 6 months ago
@Templarkommando
"Once again, the age of my source has nothing to do with its truth or falsity."
Good point. Then must have some modern research for the premise that "by his wounds we are healed."
There is plenty of good data on atomic chain reactions.
Old books are highly dubious when they make scientific claims. That is why scientific text books are under constant revision.
I don't regard Democritus as an authority on anything, but don't you wish Moses had said something about atoms?
SamWiseGingy 11 months ago