Jehovahs Witnesses- Jesus is God according to Isaiah

[krononomikon]

Isaiah 9:7, "Of the increase of his government(on His shoulders) and peace(prince of) there shall be no end, on the throne(mighty god) of David, and on his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice(wonderful counselor) from now on even for ever(everlasting father). The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

I put in parentheses what the previous verse was referring to - it has nothing to do with being God Most High or specific attributes of His Own Person.

[TheGenuineChristian]

Horrible video. Here's the rebuttal: /watch?v=CqZJ6IYSkLE

Bye.

[krononomikon]

@TheGenuineChristian that's true, and it doesn't even have to exclude Jesus from being titled with the whole name for Him not to be God Most High.

Mighty dead men are called ele gibbowrim (mighty gods) in Ezekiel 32:21, but it's usually rendered something like "mighty rulers".

All of the attributes of God's coming kingdom are described in Isaiah 9:7, and it neither forces Jesus to be God Most High, nor does it mean that the one called those things is even God Most High.

[TheGenuineChristian]

@krononomikon Elei gibborim to be exact. Putting all bias aside, el gibbor in Isaiah 9:6 can be translated as mighty (el) hero (gibbor).

[krononomikon]

@TheGenuineChristian indeed!

[pbar1000]

@TheGenuineChristian You never put your bias aside. You are a troll. You follow Christians around on YouTube and behave as a fool. Where is the love? Show us how you are a genuine person rather than a stalker. Your name even shows egotistical selfish agenda. You know we are only trying to show JW's the truth in love and trying to save you from Hell. You don't truly believe the Bible (The Message of Christ) do you? You call God a liar and say there are two Gods, Jesus and Jehovah. Awake.

[Haukman66]

@TheGenuineChristian Are you kidding me? You list a video(made by YOU), supposedly refuting MY video, and YOUR video, doesnt even address one point that I pointed out in my video! Also, you used bogus references. " Professor Mordechai ben Tziyyon" ???? Seriously? Has anyone ever heard of this guy? If he is a professor, why is there NOTHING to be found on him? This is odd. Answer the points I brought up in MY video, and maybe we can talk. Thank you.

[WCOFTheology]

Great video, only those following their father the devil would try to denigrate Christ like they do :(

[Haukman66]

@WCOFTheology Amen bro. I have been trying to show them, but as you can see, by the comments here, and on my other video, they find a way to argue away anything! It reminds me of Luke 16 where Abraham tells the rich man, even if a man rises from the dead, they will not believe. So true!

[chanses2]

The Watchtower Society tell their subordinates that the Bible-translations we read are wrongly translated, which is the other way around, actually. The WTS make one of the biggest fumble in his history by their bad knowledge in koine Greek and Hebrew. The verses are just the ones that takes up the issue with Jesus divine nature. Jesus existed in the past eternity, infinite in nature, as he is one with God, and God created through his word, Jesus Christ, thus, Jesus was never created.

[Haukman66]

@chanses2 Yes, this is something, that I wonder how they get away with. Seriously. Are people so blind? Apparently.

[chanses2]

@Haukman66 It's the indoctrination and control the WS holds on its members, by telling: everybody else is wrong, and we are right, and if you leave our church, you will be excluded (or not be saved - as the Mormons are taught in their pagan religion. It's the same with the bulk of humanity, indoctrinated that life is the way you are brought up in, while the spiritual world is more reality than this - soon-to-end world. The eternity is what waits, the timeless life, a wonderful neverlasting life.

[chanses2]

@Haukman66 The members are kept in the darkness by method of control. Another thing. The WTS aso changed the Greek words in their awfully bad translation to suit their man-made doctrin. Gospel doctrins keep harmony with the Greek texts, and one really have to be very good in Greek to translate perfectly. Did you know that there is a big issue with for example Hebrew 11:1 in every translation out there, and moreover?

[shy52002]

@chanses2

and also dont forget they also think they also know the best,rest of the world is a fool,lol

[chanses2]

@shy52002 I would call it "MIND CONTROL". There are some things that telltale typical falsehood, and that is one, making that claim you wrote, and not letting its members do their own research - by telling how false the outside world is, as if history and Greek language and grammar were wrong everywhere except in their own "Church". What a baloney and wackiness believing in such bull.....

[irishg1759]

Execellent video brother! I truly believe that whoever the Father is drawing, He will lead them to this one!

[Haukman66]

@irishg1759 Thanks bro!

[MrNinamarie]

Again, Haukman66 provides the details. Excellent. Of course Jesus is God. He is God Incarnate (Matt. 1:23), He is eternal (Isa. 9:6), He has devine names, He claimed equality with God (Jn.14:9, 10:30), He is omnipresent (Matt. 18:20, 28:20), He is omnipotent (Matt. 28:18), He is omniscient (Rev. 2:23), He has creative powers (Jn.1:1-3, Col. 1:16), He has powers over the elements of nature. He receives worship, forgives sin and has power over His own life and death. Only God can do these things.

[Haukman66]

@MrNinamarie Amen brother. Great points there. Also, 1Timothy 3:16 tells us clearly, God was manifested in the flesh! How do they get around these texts? It is beyond me. God bless.

[anissueofursincerity]

"If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" (John 14) Yet the

son is not the Father and the Father is not the Son, according to trinitarian doctrine.

You have made a modalist (one-ness) argument

[Haukman66]

@anissueofursincerity Nope, I never said the Father was the Son! Maybe you didnt watch the video? I dont know, but I never said that. The Father and the Son are two separate persons, sharing the divine essence. The are, along with the Holy Spirit, 3 separte persons, but one God!

[anissueofursincerity]

@Haukman66

The statement I posted encompasses that. U dint read it carefully.

[Haukman66]

@anissueofursincerity I read it plenty careful to see what you were spewing. As I said in the video, Jesus is God, according to the bible. The Father is also God. No problem there. Maybe you should try and just come out with what you are trying to pass off here?

[anissueofursincerity]

@Haukman66 You are in denial. Your citation of Isaiah doesn't provide an argument for any of that.

[Haukman66]

@anissueofursincerity Please expound on your comments, and show me how I dont have an argument. Please spare your snide remarks, unless you can back up what you are saying.

[anissueofursincerity]

@Haukman66

I did that already.

[DIVINESOTERIOLOGY]

Jesus forgave sins, which only God had the authority to do (Mk 2:5-11, Lk 5:20-24)

[Haukman66]

@DIVINESOTERIOLOGY Another good point bro. Thanks for sharing.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DIVINESOTERIOLOGY

“Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.And with that he breathed on them and said, Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” John 20

[DIVINESOTERIOLOGY]

@anissueofursincerity I am not understanding your use of the verse.

[DIVINESOTERIOLOGY]

@anissueofursincerity Oh so you are saying you have the authority to give people eternal salvation by forgiving their sins? There is one mediator between the Father God, and man. Jesus gave them the Holy Spirit, who but God has that power? Also Jesus gave them authority, commissioned them. They did not have the power prior, it was given to them by God, since only God had the authority to do so.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DIVINESOTERIOLOGY

I agree with you. Their authority was given to them by Jesus.

And, I believe what authority Jesus had was given to him by the Father.

[krononomikon]

@DIVINESOTERIOLOGY Actually, Jesus said He would pray to the Father, and the Father would therefore send the Holy Spirit in His name, to be more precise

-John 14:16

[msm1876]

Very good! Another clincher in Isaih 9:6 is the title "Everlasting Father," which is a more literal translation of the Hebrew. If you're a Father of Something in Judaism, you are a posessor of it. Creatures do not posess eternity...they enter into it!

[Haukman66]

@msm1876 Amen, I was actually thinking of putting that point in the video, but thought I might add it in another one later. Thanks for your input brother. God bless.