hewitt is a pretentious twat! he says at the end that god has a influence on people lives despite all efforts to irradiate him. people only still believe in his because they are still indoctrinated into believing in him. if no-one ever mentioned god to him his entire life he would die an atheist, if god were real we would all be born theists. but were not,
My wish: face a person of absolute wit and intelligence and argue out all the ignorance that exists inside of me. School obviously didn't offer this for me.
"The reason God continues to involve himself in people's lives, despite the best effort of utopians, is because he is real, he affects them, and he has directed their lives" It's a tough call. Is this guy Hugh on some kind of hallucinogenic drug? Most likely he's just religious. But it's hard to tell the two apart. It's 2012, quite some time after the Enlightenment. It's so sad that irrationality and religion is still so prevalent in America.
o all christians......If you truley follow the word of the bible, how come we never hear of people being slain for working the sabbath or hear of kids being taken to the edge of town and stoned for disrepecting mummy or daddy?? How come all christians are not found killing homosexuals??? How come most churches through out the u.s.a and europe are almost empty???? HOW COME CHRISTIANS CHERRY PICK AND TRULEY DONT FOLLOW ALL OF THE BIBLE!!!!!!!
Nice job Hugh. Way to use the same old strategy that every christian uses. If I come across as degrating and smart ass I will look better in a debate. Only to those you are trying to appeal to. So I guess it's mission accomplished for you. And nice closing argument. I think Na Na Na Boo Boo. Stick your head in doo doo would have been equally as mature.
That wasn't an ad hominem attack, and he wasn't conceding the debate. Hugh was simply pointing out the fact that Harris' arguments aren't completely novel and original. The philosophical and theological issues he addresses have been addressed within religious communities for thousands of years, and the way he presents his arguments suggests an almost complete ignorance of that fact. Hugh was simply attempting to reiterate his main criticism of Harris' position in a short amount of time.
@kendallburks [Harris' arguments aren't completely novel and original]
Which argument? That we should not trust the veracity of the scriptures, we should not trust the veracity of miracle claims, we should not trust people when they have revelations about how to behave because this leads to lunacy? Yeah, that´s pretty old, maybe as old as any religion, and of course Harris knows this. The problem is, people don´t get it, that´s the reason why you need to say it again and again.
@lfzadra Yes, those are good examples of issues that have been discussed extensively within religious communities. The point is, Harris doesn't argue with the kind of sophistication that suggests that he is aware of the fact that for each of of his arguments, there are at least a dozen counter-arguments from thousands of years of theological and philosophical history. Harris presents his position as a truism that only fools would reject. You seem to demonstrate the same habit as well.
@kendallburks There can´t be thousands of years of counter-arguments because the capacity for intentional annihilation of the human race by a small lunatic group is new. If there´s a chance for it to happen, the apocalyptic nature of some religions (carefully preserved as a dormant virus in the scriptures of innocent believers) is the best candidate to pave the way. The irony here is that when Harris says that you are part of the problem by not allowing him to say this, you think he is a fool.
@lfzadra Intentional annihilation of the human race by religious fanatics was not an issue you mentioned (explicitly), and while Harris does talk about that, it's certainly not his main argument against religion. All the other criticisms you mentioned, including the relative trustworthiness of scripture, revelation and miracle claims, are issues that do have an extensive intellectual history. And I would never deny Harris the right to criticize religion, but I am certainly free to criticize him.
@kendallburks [it's certainly not his main argument] If religion does not have some collateral and harmful effects, some of them entirely new given our current and growing capacity for total annihilation, what´s the point of neo-atheism then? I don´t see people writing books about Elvis worshippers being a possible threat to humanity.
@ClumsyRoot No I have not read his book, but I have read many articles and interviews written by him, as well as read/heard many debates of him with many different people. For an extensive critique I would need to read his book, but as it is I have certainly heard the majority of his arguments. He is one of the most articulate and clear of the new atheists, but his arguments are ultimately less convincing than say, those of Christopher Hitchens.
I too appreciate Harris' eloquence and lucidity, although I feel he is sometimes guilty of oversimplifying complex issues in order to drive home a point.
Have you watched his debate with William Lane Craig?
Harris isn't try to "prove" anything; he simply wants to show that science can inform us as to which behaviors are more likely to increase human well-being.
@ClumsyRoot I disagree. I think that Harris is trying to prove that religion is a dangerous force in the world, that belief in unprovable assertions cannot safely be used as a basis for morality, and I think he is succeeding.
@WarmongerWW3 I think you mean "dogmatic," not "religious." Anyhow, I know what you mean; Sam is clearly trying to evince a rational basis for morality, and thinks certain moral propositions, such as the evil of torturing a child, are obviously evil, and has constructed his moral framework carefully on a basis that preserves our moral intuition but enthrones rationality.
The mad man can find his own beliefs in scriptures is what Sam said. Very true. But does that mean we should do away with religion because its evil? I lol at you Sam, I lol.
No. Its not all evil. Religion does a ton of good. Thats like saying science is evil because it led to nuclear bombs, so lets get rid of it. I continue to lol at Sam.
@fcmilsweeper9 I have to say I'm laughing at you. Can you even see what you're writing here? You're comparing "religion", and I assume you include the Abrahamic religions in that. which all have scriptures calling for the believers to murder others for various reasons and an idea of reality in which God sometimes calls on people to brutally murder and enslave their neighbors, for example in Numbers 31.
@fcmilsweeper9 Science on the other hand, is merely a method if inquiry. It does not mandate any action, nor is it an entity making commands. If you can not see a moral difference between divine commands calling for murder in religions and someone using a product of our understanding of nature to kill someone, Say by jamming a spoon("A product of Science!") in someone's eye, you're quite simply a moron.
@fcmilsweeper9 To say that "Religion does a ton of good" is also a meaningless statement. Please name an action that is beneficial to humanity that can only arise due to belief in religion, or a concrete advantage to believing things for no reason what so ever. Even if you were to make claims such as "Christians give more to help the poor when they're afraid of Hell", there are still secular alternatives, such as public flogging of people who don't pay a poor tax.
@fcmilsweeper9 The truth is that the big religions contain some really divisive and downright dangerous commands that you in no way have to be insane to take seriously if you actually believe the religion is true. At the same time, religion provides no benefit that can not be had by secular means and is faith based and therefore undermines good epistemic practices. This makes religion a neutral to negative influence on humanity.
I have watched a lot of videos of debates about religion and so forth, and when i say a lot i mean a lot, like thousands and thousands. And i truly have to say i have never ever seen such a bad argument as this man is making, Sam utterly destroyed everything he said while Hewitt refused to make up an answer with just a tiny trace of intelligence. "You are asking the wrong questions", "you are not that smart", what a fucking idiot. He just made a fool out of himself, it's not even funny to watch.
Hewitt's problem seems to be that he assumes the truth of his beliefs during the entire discussion, so he never actually steps back to try to prove them or even glance at them critically before calling Sam an idiot for thinking otherwise.
Hugh what a horrendous cop out and use of ad hominem: "sam your not that smart".... what I saw here was a desperation. He knew he was getting KILLED in the debate. The bible has a lot of ugly stuff in it and you could spend an eternity (i guess is hell) pointing out the hypocrisy of those who cherry pick it
And christianity isn't original either, lots of it was stolen from cultures that Are and were older than creationists believe the world is old. Tell me theists, why aren't we polytheists anymore? Why do we not believe in Zues, Aphrodite, or Hera anymore? they were all gods, they were above the clouds, on the mountain tops....now that we have explored them they were not there, but you moved the goal posts again and put your fingers in your ears when listening to reason.
Hewitt is an idiot - he ends the conversation with "Because religion has been on the planet for so long that it proves there is a god" Humans have been on the Earth for over 100,000 years... of which religion maybe 6000 on the high side. Why are the religious so damn irrational??
Hugh Hewitt had absolutely nothing to say in response to Sam Harris' last points, he really just resorted to insults and trying to reaffirm his own beliefs to try to make it look like he got a final jab in there.
"Sam talks about the god of the old testament and how he is really perverse and evil (...). And it does not look forward to the reformation of what happened under Jeus and how people are called not to impose their beliefs on others but to love them." It baffles me how anyone can say something like that and not see how obviously man-made the story is.
So we have this eternal being that created universe and in the first half of our existence it was malicious and evil but then it changed on us.
Talking to a christian is like talking to a fish. There is nothing there but glassy eyes. They open there mouth and down the rabbit hole we go. Delusion has griped it's claws to deep for reason to release them. They want to be Wonderland.
My take on this debate. Sam uses concrete examples and irrefutable logic. In the end, Hugh pulls out the 'God is real' card. NO. He may be real to YOU, but you can't show me the dragon in your garage. If you were to pray your hardest and say 'Lord I offer my destruction as proof you exists. Zap me with a bolt of lightning right now. This would be followed a 'nothing continued to happen' event. If you went playing golf next week in the rain and a lightning rod,It would be an 'In God's time' thing
"we don't jail people for being stupid" and "you're not that smart" ....sounds like they both threw out a similar insult to each other, just went about it differently.
@q4t5p6h I think I meant Hugh was saying that Sam's book was an invitation to persecute religious people which is incorrect IMO and Sam's it seems, and that faith is being persecuted like he sees people like Sam as a threat and Sam made a point with his remark, it had a purpose.
You're not that smart, I've heard this before, had no point in the argument, which is not even a legitamite argument.
I love that Hewitt says that faith is under attack and there's nothing in conversation keeping religion protected from criticism. Then he quotes Sam's book, which points out reasonable problems with Christianity and criticizes him for pointing out those problems.
Why do Christian sometimes resort to name calling or insults( your not that smart ooh let me think// he's a neurologist for Christ sake) instead of just responding to the question or statement/ there's are a lot places in the new testament about obeying all commands new and old and it does refer negatively to gays just keep leaving in your make believe world christians do not possess any objectivism............
I like how Hewitt bites his tongue when Sam relates the bible's missive on the killing of homosexuals. Hewitt's mind: "But of course they should be killed. Dammit I can't say that out loud!"
these comments are pointless ............ RELIGION IS THE LACK OF RATIONALITY.... and it has lasted century after century which makes religion the most evil thing ever concocted
I'd be willing to bet that Harris is a hell of a lot smarter than Hewitt. Oh, and God doesn't inject himself into people's lives...because there is no God.
It's funny, Lee Strobel is a creationist, but you wouldn't be able to guess it. There appeared to be no bias, except he asked Sam more questions, but then again Sam is defending the minority position.
I like how Hewitt didn't say that Harris was wrong on his assessment of anti semitism. He just says that it would induce hatred for christianity for simply saying it. So it's techjnically true, but don't say it because folks will hate us if you do.
Study the expressions on each man's face. One is anxious, well-read, and eager to tackle what he views to be a large problem. The other sits back, hands clasped, with a smug half-smile on his face that screams "Whatever you say, I'm not really listening". You tell me which one seems more rational and well-intentioned.
@MaggotsRise I was actually impressed with how placid Harris is. He has a balance that only someone whose ideas are secure can enjoy in a debate. Indeed, if Harris' ideas *were* to be effectively challenged, he'd surely accept any superior idea.
3:45 you catch Sam Harris not only contradicting himself by purposely deceiving this audience, but by misrepresenting the text: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law UNTIL EVERYTHING IS ACCOMPLISHED." Matthew 5:17-19
What a fucking douche bag, "you're not that smart?" Nice job q-tip. Maybe next time stick to your fucking circle-jerk, failing ratings conservative radio program where the only intellectual challenge to your bullshit myopic nonsense is your own ineptitude.
the right way to win an argument? not sure, but it certainly doesn't involve personally insulting you're opponent by calling them "not smart". Sam Harris 1, High Hewitt 0.
@llkdll What Hugh should have said is that Sam is not original in his arguments. These arguments have been going on for a long time and will continue until the end of history.
@llkdll It's actually even worse than just saying "You're not that smart" He also ends his argument by just blindly saying "God is real and we need to follow him, end of story."
Wow, Hewie's condescension at the end made him look about this small *proceeds to place thumb and forefinger a centimeter apart*. What a douche.
"God is real, he has directed their lives". So all actions are pre-aware to God, so all the so called "atheist" motivated atrocities were directed by (if not impeded by) God. Evil exists in the world, but God has given that lovely get-out clause "free will" as a way of not interfereing when an evil mass murdering fuckhead gets to work. Clever c*nt.
As if he ended with "your not that smart" well from what I heard he is a hell of a lot smarter then you you old fart maybe Sam should have called him a nazi to make it fair but no he doesn't need to stoop that low. Typical religious apologists refusing to accept that its scripture and religion that's the main factor in all of this but if they did that then it would mean have to challenge their own hypocrisy and ignorance
@TheXman300 But I wish he would have at least answered some of his main challenges, such as the answer(s) to the question of (what causes) evil. Or whether Hewitt has the best explanation of evil (assuming it's defined properly at all). Or the old canard about atheism causing the Holocaust and gulags, etc. (Btw the way Hewitt, Hitler is not admired "on the left" but from extreme rightwing authoritarians and racists).
The biggest claim that Christians have in their arsenal is that Jesus loved everyone so much that he sacrificed himself? But my statement is Jesus did this knowing he would be resurrected. I'd shoot myself in the head if I knew 5 mins later I'd be walking around again. To me that's not impressive or a sacrifice. In fact it's insulting to us with such trickery of false sacrifice.
@ThePublicIsInsane I think what impresses people is not just the belief in his death, but the belief that he suffered intensely in a horrific way to benefit every single human soul. Hence, why so many loved the movie The Passion of the Christ, which focused so much his torture, rather than his larger life or message.
Sam's grin at the end is priceless. He was trying to hold his composure I think. That's exactly what he wanted to happen because Hewitt completely discredits himself by attacking at the end when he lost the argument.
The problem with these holy rollers is that we know they're deluded so how can we take them seriously. As soon as they open their mouths they sound like madmen. Invisible sky daddy's? Rising from the dead, Walking on water? Bat Schitt Crazy!
Hugh Hewitt made a very revealing statement: "...reformations in faith are important, and they need to be linked with reformations in government...". There you have it. I'm sure Hewitt thinks of himself as a "moderate"--but if he and others who believe as he does had their way, we would be a Christian theocracy. This is why we atheists must speak out and oppose. We cannot remain silent and just let them have their way.
"God" isn't persistent because he's real, Christianity is still around because too many people people have a LOT to lose if it goes away. Religion is a multi million dollar business.
...So who cares? Let em drown in their own self-masturbatory sanctimonious. People who make it their primarary mission to crusade against faith are WASTING THEIR LIVES.
Don't we have VASTLY more important things to be doing?
Harris is right about Islamic Jihadists though. I fought them. Thier insane Death Cult DESERVES to be eradicated. It is what they crave. Truly.
@FrmMyColdDeadFingers The point is that religion halts progress in many ways and is a pressing issue in America. America is in an age of anti intellectualism. Are you telling me that religion isn't a factor?
Religion teaches people from a very young age to believe in authority and tradition and abandon our natural skepticism.
This is a very bad thing that has far reaching consequences in our society.
For all of you thinking you can run cognitive circles around this 'mental midget', by all means, call into his radio show & debate him. Prove your intellectual superiority. Be sure to post your results here on YouTube as a respnse to this video. Ha! Trust me, YOU aren't that smart.
As an agnostic, I have to ask, why do real thinkers like Hewitt feel the need to respond to those attacking religion? Thier attacks don't really undermine your faith, right? S
@FrmMyColdDeadFingers yes they do! When they are alone, counting the money they sustract from the brainwashed sheeps, they might think of his followers;" how fukng stupid is these ppl',im getting rich just by supporting this stupid bronze age tale and THEY BELIEVE IT"
I agree that Hewitt's last statement was ad homonym & unnecessary, but he is HARDLY an idiot. All of you so contemptuously calling him 'stupid' would be OBLITERATED by him in a real debate.
I don't agree with his views on religion (nor the views of Harris) but Hewitt will absolutely wipe the floor with any Statist/Collectivist in a debate on taxes, spending, the private sector economy, the regulatory & welfare states, individual liberty, personal responsibility, the rule of law, or any number
@FrmMyColdDeadFingers He's still an idiot with regards to religion. He thinks morality comes form the Bible and says the same things every other religious person says when confronted with the horrible things their religion is used to justify: Well the true version of my religion doesn't say that, or that's not my god.
Hiding from the real issue of them believing in a god on less evidence than they would believe anything else.
For those of us who can't be bothered to take place in this tiresome debate over if there is a god or not, we thank Harris for taking the time to debate these mental infants.
Pathetic argument from Hugh Hewitt. Desperation and name calling. Notice how calm and reserved Sam Harris always is in conversation, logic is on his side
The God of the Old Testament speaks to Abrahams and says "Take you son Isaac where I tell you and cut his guts out" (I paraphrase) then later, after stopping the sacrifice, says "I know you really love me because you were willing to kill your only son."
I had the exact same thought. Nice argument. Harris may not be "that" smart (though I certainly think he is), but he is apparently smarter that Hugh Hewitt.
Sam still crushes these two dim-wits despite them trying to twist words around and play word games. Hugh Hewitt does not know how to debate, what a miss-informed buffoon!
I really hope the future has less people like Hugh Hewitt and more like Sam Harris. I hope I live long enough to see just the beginning of a time when people use reason and logic instead of 1st century mythology.
Shame on us for brain washing our children into becoming a man like Hugh. Although it doesn’t really seem like it now, we ARE strong enough to stand up against religious dogma and ignorance.
hewitt is a pretentious twat! he says at the end that god has a influence on people lives despite all efforts to irradiate him. people only still believe in his because they are still indoctrinated into believing in him. if no-one ever mentioned god to him his entire life he would die an atheist, if god were real we would all be born theists. but were not,
T4terrible 1 week ago
Hewitt's final argument?! "Sam, your not that smart". REALLY?? Talk about an ad hominem attack.
blaisingm 1 week ago
My wish: face a person of absolute wit and intelligence and argue out all the ignorance that exists inside of me. School obviously didn't offer this for me.
1ePoo 1 week ago
Hewitt is an intellectually bankrupt moron not worth the skin off Harris' knuckles
mattyisagod 2 weeks ago
Actually, Mr. Hewitt, Sam IS "that" smart. YOU, on the other hand, are batshit stupid.
xephyr1000 2 weeks ago 2
Christianity and Islam are both DEATH CULTS
xephyr1000 2 weeks ago
who the hell is Hugh Hewitt, and why is someone as stupid as he on my computer?
funcpl2741054 2 weeks ago
"The reason God continues to involve himself in people's lives, despite the best effort of utopians, is because he is real, he affects them, and he has directed their lives" It's a tough call. Is this guy Hugh on some kind of hallucinogenic drug? Most likely he's just religious. But it's hard to tell the two apart. It's 2012, quite some time after the Enlightenment. It's so sad that irrationality and religion is still so prevalent in America.
0debug 2 weeks ago
o all christians......If you truley follow the word of the bible, how come we never hear of people being slain for working the sabbath or hear of kids being taken to the edge of town and stoned for disrepecting mummy or daddy?? How come all christians are not found killing homosexuals??? How come most churches through out the u.s.a and europe are almost empty???? HOW COME CHRISTIANS CHERRY PICK AND TRULEY DONT FOLLOW ALL OF THE BIBLE!!!!!!!
stonewall1888 3 weeks ago 2
@stonewall1888 Thank you for your comment. They really do cherry pick out of the bible what feels good to them and leave the rest.
sciencevsreligion01 2 weeks ago
Nice job Hugh. Way to use the same old strategy that every christian uses. If I come across as degrating and smart ass I will look better in a debate. Only to those you are trying to appeal to. So I guess it's mission accomplished for you. And nice closing argument. I think Na Na Na Boo Boo. Stick your head in doo doo would have been equally as mature.
daviduous 1 month ago
"Rhetorical jihad"? LOL!
Sticks and stones, Hugh. Sticks and stones.
ClumsyRoot 1 month ago 2
there r no moderates if u believe in religion , beliefs in religion is extreme
loly1969 1 month ago
LMAO, lee strobel hears hewitt's vacuous nonsense at the end and just goes, "okay."
footosaur76 1 month ago
@footosaur76
I love how Hugh smugly dismisses many of Sam's points without actually explaining why. Such is the arrogance of faith.
ClumsyRoot 1 month ago
That wasn't an ad hominem attack, and he wasn't conceding the debate. Hugh was simply pointing out the fact that Harris' arguments aren't completely novel and original. The philosophical and theological issues he addresses have been addressed within religious communities for thousands of years, and the way he presents his arguments suggests an almost complete ignorance of that fact. Hugh was simply attempting to reiterate his main criticism of Harris' position in a short amount of time.
kendallburks 1 month ago
@kendallburks [Harris' arguments aren't completely novel and original]
Which argument? That we should not trust the veracity of the scriptures, we should not trust the veracity of miracle claims, we should not trust people when they have revelations about how to behave because this leads to lunacy? Yeah, that´s pretty old, maybe as old as any religion, and of course Harris knows this. The problem is, people don´t get it, that´s the reason why you need to say it again and again.
lfzadra 1 month ago
@lfzadra Yes, those are good examples of issues that have been discussed extensively within religious communities. The point is, Harris doesn't argue with the kind of sophistication that suggests that he is aware of the fact that for each of of his arguments, there are at least a dozen counter-arguments from thousands of years of theological and philosophical history. Harris presents his position as a truism that only fools would reject. You seem to demonstrate the same habit as well.
kendallburks 1 month ago
@kendallburks There can´t be thousands of years of counter-arguments because the capacity for intentional annihilation of the human race by a small lunatic group is new. If there´s a chance for it to happen, the apocalyptic nature of some religions (carefully preserved as a dormant virus in the scriptures of innocent believers) is the best candidate to pave the way. The irony here is that when Harris says that you are part of the problem by not allowing him to say this, you think he is a fool.
lfzadra 1 month ago
@lfzadra Intentional annihilation of the human race by religious fanatics was not an issue you mentioned (explicitly), and while Harris does talk about that, it's certainly not his main argument against religion. All the other criticisms you mentioned, including the relative trustworthiness of scripture, revelation and miracle claims, are issues that do have an extensive intellectual history. And I would never deny Harris the right to criticize religion, but I am certainly free to criticize him.
kendallburks 1 month ago
@kendallburks [it's certainly not his main argument] If religion does not have some collateral and harmful effects, some of them entirely new given our current and growing capacity for total annihilation, what´s the point of neo-atheism then? I don´t see people writing books about Elvis worshippers being a possible threat to humanity.
[I am certainly free to criticize him] Fair.
lfzadra 1 month ago
@kendallburks Where would one start reading up on these thousands of years of argument, in a context which is relevant today?
malignor 1 month ago
@malignor try any 1000 level philosophy of religion course.
kendallburks 1 month ago
@kendallburks
Did you actually read his book? Or are you basing your analysis on this one interview?
ClumsyRoot 1 month ago
@ClumsyRoot No I have not read his book, but I have read many articles and interviews written by him, as well as read/heard many debates of him with many different people. For an extensive critique I would need to read his book, but as it is I have certainly heard the majority of his arguments. He is one of the most articulate and clear of the new atheists, but his arguments are ultimately less convincing than say, those of Christopher Hitchens.
kendallburks 1 month ago
@kendallburks
Fair enough.
I too appreciate Harris' eloquence and lucidity, although I feel he is sometimes guilty of oversimplifying complex issues in order to drive home a point.
Have you watched his debate with William Lane Craig?
ClumsyRoot 1 month ago
@ClumsyRoot No, but it would be interesting to see how those two interact. Thanks for the suggestion.
kendallburks 1 month ago
@ClumsyRoot I watched... and he did not prove that morality has objective value. He seems to be very religious when it comes to moral values.
WarmongerWW3 4 weeks ago
@WarmongerWW3
Harris isn't try to "prove" anything; he simply wants to show that science can inform us as to which behaviors are more likely to increase human well-being.
ClumsyRoot 4 weeks ago
@ClumsyRoot I disagree. I think that Harris is trying to prove that religion is a dangerous force in the world, that belief in unprovable assertions cannot safely be used as a basis for morality, and I think he is succeeding.
wealthychef 2 weeks ago
@wealthychef
I stand corrected.
ClumsyRoot 2 weeks ago
@WarmongerWW3 I think you mean "dogmatic," not "religious." Anyhow, I know what you mean; Sam is clearly trying to evince a rational basis for morality, and thinks certain moral propositions, such as the evil of torturing a child, are obviously evil, and has constructed his moral framework carefully on a basis that preserves our moral intuition but enthrones rationality.
wealthychef 2 weeks ago
not that smart?? Im here saying to myself, Hewitt, are you that dumb? lol
CMVMic 2 months ago 12
@CMVMic it means he conceded the debate
gotherealex 1 month ago
haha! funny last poke by hewitt. total ad hom.
Oblivionic 2 months ago
Hugh Hewitt needs to stfu and get over his childish views of the morality and the bible.
truckcompany 2 months ago
These videos seem cut.......is there a link to an unedited version?
ncastle4 3 months ago in playlist More videos from atheist411
The mad man can find his own beliefs in scriptures is what Sam said. Very true. But does that mean we should do away with religion because its evil? I lol at you Sam, I lol.
fcmilsweeper9 3 months ago
@fcmilsweeper9 Well, if you already concede that religion is evil, why wouldn't you try to get rid of it ?
sooperfukker 2 months ago
@sooperfukker
No. Its not all evil. Religion does a ton of good. Thats like saying science is evil because it led to nuclear bombs, so lets get rid of it. I continue to lol at Sam.
fcmilsweeper9 2 months ago
@fcmilsweeper9 What good does religion do ???
sooperfukker 2 months ago
@fcmilsweeper9 I have to say I'm laughing at you. Can you even see what you're writing here? You're comparing "religion", and I assume you include the Abrahamic religions in that. which all have scriptures calling for the believers to murder others for various reasons and an idea of reality in which God sometimes calls on people to brutally murder and enslave their neighbors, for example in Numbers 31.
Gnomefro 2 months ago
@fcmilsweeper9 Science on the other hand, is merely a method if inquiry. It does not mandate any action, nor is it an entity making commands. If you can not see a moral difference between divine commands calling for murder in religions and someone using a product of our understanding of nature to kill someone, Say by jamming a spoon("A product of Science!") in someone's eye, you're quite simply a moron.
Gnomefro 2 months ago
@fcmilsweeper9 To say that "Religion does a ton of good" is also a meaningless statement. Please name an action that is beneficial to humanity that can only arise due to belief in religion, or a concrete advantage to believing things for no reason what so ever. Even if you were to make claims such as "Christians give more to help the poor when they're afraid of Hell", there are still secular alternatives, such as public flogging of people who don't pay a poor tax.
Gnomefro 2 months ago
@fcmilsweeper9 The truth is that the big religions contain some really divisive and downright dangerous commands that you in no way have to be insane to take seriously if you actually believe the religion is true. At the same time, religion provides no benefit that can not be had by secular means and is faith based and therefore undermines good epistemic practices. This makes religion a neutral to negative influence on humanity.
Gnomefro 2 months ago
WOW Hewitt said nothing after Harris' point on passive religious moderates being a part of the problem of religious radicals.
RussianAssassin21 3 months ago
"I read your book very carefully".
The same way Hewitt listened to Sam in this debate.
The same way Hewitt apparently read his bible.
SoundzRite 3 months ago 23
@SoundzRite ha, my thoughts exactly/
hockey91ninjawarrior 3 months ago
I have watched a lot of videos of debates about religion and so forth, and when i say a lot i mean a lot, like thousands and thousands. And i truly have to say i have never ever seen such a bad argument as this man is making, Sam utterly destroyed everything he said while Hewitt refused to make up an answer with just a tiny trace of intelligence. "You are asking the wrong questions", "you are not that smart", what a fucking idiot. He just made a fool out of himself, it's not even funny to watch.
Balalaika74 3 months ago 4
lol his last argument to sam's final statement. "because god is real..." oh man, you know he lost bad when he brought daddy into this.
iPriestHolmes 3 months ago 3
Hugh Hewitt- braindead no namer
Sam Harris- a respected neuroscientist and intellectual worldwide
and his the one thats 'not smart'.....
raizin8 3 months ago
lol @ Hewitt's argument being reduced to nothingness.
ushireborn 3 months ago
Hewitt's problem seems to be that he assumes the truth of his beliefs during the entire discussion, so he never actually steps back to try to prove them or even glance at them critically before calling Sam an idiot for thinking otherwise.
johnjsal 3 months ago
You've got to agree with the smarmy fuck, this is a rhetorical jihad...
blakelivingston1987 3 months ago
who the hell is Hugh Hewitt?.....seriously, what a dim bulb he is.
funcpl2741054 3 months ago
Hugh what a horrendous cop out and use of ad hominem: "sam your not that smart".... what I saw here was a desperation. He knew he was getting KILLED in the debate. The bible has a lot of ugly stuff in it and you could spend an eternity (i guess is hell) pointing out the hypocrisy of those who cherry pick it
Johnf85 4 months ago
And christianity isn't original either, lots of it was stolen from cultures that Are and were older than creationists believe the world is old. Tell me theists, why aren't we polytheists anymore? Why do we not believe in Zues, Aphrodite, or Hera anymore? they were all gods, they were above the clouds, on the mountain tops....now that we have explored them they were not there, but you moved the goal posts again and put your fingers in your ears when listening to reason.
Antimidation 4 months ago
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Antimidation 4 months ago
Don't you love when Harris uses the Bible more then Hugh?
Ariancaldon 4 months ago
As soon as he said faith was becoming persecuted, marginalized, and beleaguered we knew what kind of dissembler we were listening to.
mammers11 4 months ago
"Religion can Justify Anything, Even that Which is Contrary".
mdgreg 4 months ago
Its sad that people like sam have to argue for rationality
intimidator001 4 months ago
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intimidator001 4 months ago
RAGE
brockjarrett789 4 months ago
Hewitt resorts to ad hominem attacks in the face of Sam's pure reason, typical.
ZachRose88 4 months ago
Hewitt is an idiot - he ends the conversation with "Because religion has been on the planet for so long that it proves there is a god" Humans have been on the Earth for over 100,000 years... of which religion maybe 6000 on the high side. Why are the religious so damn irrational??
archdtaylor 4 months ago
Once again the poor persecuted christer complains about being criticized. Oh, those poor, tax-exempt LYING, MOTHERFUCKING SHITHEADS!!
hznfrst 4 months ago
Hugh hewitt isnt that smart.
Fucking stupid christian shit kicker.
kirkelie666 4 months ago
What a delusional idiot! This Hugh Hewitt character.
ahmedhusseinny 4 months ago
Hewitt is a Idiot and blined by his faith.
DementedScrew 4 months ago
"You're not that smart, Sam. God is real." What an intelligent rebuttal.
peteagassi 4 months ago 2
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peteagassi 4 months ago
Harris destroyed Hewitt in this debate
Endymos 5 months ago 2
Hugh Hewitt should be embarrassed...
Po0nundadnin 5 months ago
Hugh Hewitt had absolutely nothing to say in response to Sam Harris' last points, he really just resorted to insults and trying to reaffirm his own beliefs to try to make it look like he got a final jab in there.
wageofsins 5 months ago in playlist interesting videos
"Sam talks about the god of the old testament and how he is really perverse and evil (...). And it does not look forward to the reformation of what happened under Jeus and how people are called not to impose their beliefs on others but to love them." It baffles me how anyone can say something like that and not see how obviously man-made the story is.
So we have this eternal being that created universe and in the first half of our existence it was malicious and evil but then it changed on us.
Pawlit360 5 months ago
"Hey I've got white hair, and I say you're not that smart sonny."
baigandine 5 months ago
So many ad hominem attacks.
butlerlog 5 months ago
Talking to a christian is like talking to a fish. There is nothing there but glassy eyes. They open there mouth and down the rabbit hole we go. Delusion has griped it's claws to deep for reason to release them. They want to be Wonderland.
scotttebben 5 months ago
My take on this debate. Sam uses concrete examples and irrefutable logic. In the end, Hugh pulls out the 'God is real' card. NO. He may be real to YOU, but you can't show me the dragon in your garage. If you were to pray your hardest and say 'Lord I offer my destruction as proof you exists. Zap me with a bolt of lightning right now. This would be followed a 'nothing continued to happen' event. If you went playing golf next week in the rain and a lightning rod,It would be an 'In God's time' thing
worktosser 5 months ago
"we don't jail people for being stupid" and "you're not that smart" ....sounds like they both threw out a similar insult to each other, just went about it differently.
q4t5p6h 6 months ago 2
@q4t5p6h one of them had a point
shanyin1234 5 months ago
@shanyin1234 What do you mean?
q4t5p6h 4 months ago
@q4t5p6h I think I meant Hugh was saying that Sam's book was an invitation to persecute religious people which is incorrect IMO and Sam's it seems, and that faith is being persecuted like he sees people like Sam as a threat and Sam made a point with his remark, it had a purpose.
You're not that smart, I've heard this before, had no point in the argument, which is not even a legitamite argument.
shanyin1234 4 months ago
I've had a religious law professor. They fucking suck.
kickmeout1 6 months ago 2
I love that Hewitt says that faith is under attack and there's nothing in conversation keeping religion protected from criticism. Then he quotes Sam's book, which points out reasonable problems with Christianity and criticizes him for pointing out those problems.
Iamthedoorwaymusic 6 months ago 2
the last line from Hewitt was him atemting defeat. "Your not that smart"? This guy is a joke.
shortstuff91195 6 months ago
Hewitt has an air-tight argument: Sam's not that smart and God is real... how did I not see that?
Allallt 6 months ago
"We don't jail people for being stupid" -- did sam harris just pull a hitchslap
supahsekzy 6 months ago 41
Why do Christian sometimes resort to name calling or insults( your not that smart ooh let me think// he's a neurologist for Christ sake) instead of just responding to the question or statement/ there's are a lot places in the new testament about obeying all commands new and old and it does refer negatively to gays just keep leaving in your make believe world christians do not possess any objectivism............
heathsawyer 6 months ago
I like how Hewitt bites his tongue when Sam relates the bible's missive on the killing of homosexuals. Hewitt's mind: "But of course they should be killed. Dammit I can't say that out loud!"
fdasherv 6 months ago 2
@fdasherv hahhahhahahah
nuitaridark 6 months ago
"god is real" ....
btw nazi germany was a christian nation.
killing the jews is good (in certain circumstances) says the bible, and hitler found the right passages to light the jewhatred.
Hewitt is a fanatic talking about just wars and such.
Just as hitler , bush looked for passages and justifications to go to war.
anywayz lets stop trolling
gogo SAM.
lou123654 7 months ago
these comments are pointless ............ RELIGION IS THE LACK OF RATIONALITY.... and it has lasted century after century which makes religion the most evil thing ever concocted
sllimthg 7 months ago
v@xchampx very important "until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, ...
philosageify 7 months ago
3:45
Sam Harris completely destroys Hugh Hewitt haha.
ThrashEagle 7 months ago
I'd be willing to bet that Harris is a hell of a lot smarter than Hewitt. Oh, and God doesn't inject himself into people's lives...because there is no God.
jojogonzo 7 months ago
I'd be willing to bet that Harris is a hell of a lot smarter than Hewitt.
jojogonzo 7 months ago
It's funny, Lee Strobel is a creationist, but you wouldn't be able to guess it. There appeared to be no bias, except he asked Sam more questions, but then again Sam is defending the minority position.
TheBiddleMan 7 months ago 3
I like how Hewitt didn't say that Harris was wrong on his assessment of anti semitism. He just says that it would induce hatred for christianity for simply saying it. So it's techjnically true, but don't say it because folks will hate us if you do.
DaHonestAbe 7 months ago
Study the expressions on each man's face. One is anxious, well-read, and eager to tackle what he views to be a large problem. The other sits back, hands clasped, with a smug half-smile on his face that screams "Whatever you say, I'm not really listening". You tell me which one seems more rational and well-intentioned.
MaggotsRise 7 months ago 2
@MaggotsRise I was actually impressed with how placid Harris is. He has a balance that only someone whose ideas are secure can enjoy in a debate. Indeed, if Harris' ideas *were* to be effectively challenged, he'd surely accept any superior idea.
ZackFlapjack 7 months ago
Sam harris has the best poker face ever.
Sativameister 7 months ago 2
Sam The hitlarian wants to play God. I say as an atheist he truly believes in his hitlarian utopia and that is why he is wrong and he knows it.
TheShockmister 7 months ago
I don't like the way hewitt ended it. He could have refuted Sam Harris, but instead he decided to pull and ad hominem. EHHH!
xchampx 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
3:45 you catch Sam Harris not only contradicting himself by purposely deceiving this audience, but by misrepresenting the text: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law UNTIL EVERYTHING IS ACCOMPLISHED." Matthew 5:17-19
That being the finished work on the cross.
xchampx 8 months ago 2
@xchampx last time I checked the earth hadn't disappeared wouldn't that mean that its still in effect which was the point.
philosageify 7 months ago
@philosageify I see what you are saying, but that is not what he mean.
"For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ" John 1:17
"When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." John 19:30
Jesus was specifically talking about his mission here on earth.
xchampx 7 months ago
What a fucking douche bag, "you're not that smart?" Nice job q-tip. Maybe next time stick to your fucking circle-jerk, failing ratings conservative radio program where the only intellectual challenge to your bullshit myopic nonsense is your own ineptitude.
Epidemechanical 8 months ago
the right way to win an argument? not sure, but it certainly doesn't involve personally insulting you're opponent by calling them "not smart". Sam Harris 1, High Hewitt 0.
llkdll 8 months ago 53
@llkdll Or calling your opponent irrational? +6 Hugh, 6-1. Hugh Hewitt.
fillini13 6 months ago
@llkdll What Hugh should have said is that Sam is not original in his arguments. These arguments have been going on for a long time and will continue until the end of history.
jgoltz37 5 months ago
@jgoltz37 high fuckin five
shanyin1234 5 months ago
@llkdll It's actually even worse than just saying "You're not that smart" He also ends his argument by just blindly saying "God is real and we need to follow him, end of story."
JarethGT 4 months ago 2
Wow, Hewie's condescension at the end made him look about this small *proceeds to place thumb and forefinger a centimeter apart*. What a douche.
"God is real, he has directed their lives". So all actions are pre-aware to God, so all the so called "atheist" motivated atrocities were directed by (if not impeded by) God. Evil exists in the world, but God has given that lovely get-out clause "free will" as a way of not interfereing when an evil mass murdering fuckhead gets to work. Clever c*nt.
a7xdude87 8 months ago
Hugh Hewitt. The Greatest Toupée Salesman of his generation!!!
Grimpus1972 8 months ago
As if he ended with "your not that smart" well from what I heard he is a hell of a lot smarter then you you old fart maybe Sam should have called him a nazi to make it fair but no he doesn't need to stoop that low. Typical religious apologists refusing to accept that its scripture and religion that's the main factor in all of this but if they did that then it would mean have to challenge their own hypocrisy and ignorance
TheXman300 8 months ago
@TheXman300 But I wish he would have at least answered some of his main challenges, such as the answer(s) to the question of (what causes) evil. Or whether Hewitt has the best explanation of evil (assuming it's defined properly at all). Or the old canard about atheism causing the Holocaust and gulags, etc. (Btw the way Hewitt, Hitler is not admired "on the left" but from extreme rightwing authoritarians and racists).
gyniest 8 months ago
The biggest claim that Christians have in their arsenal is that Jesus loved everyone so much that he sacrificed himself? But my statement is Jesus did this knowing he would be resurrected. I'd shoot myself in the head if I knew 5 mins later I'd be walking around again. To me that's not impressive or a sacrifice. In fact it's insulting to us with such trickery of false sacrifice.
ThePublicIsInsane 8 months ago 2
@ThePublicIsInsane I think what impresses people is not just the belief in his death, but the belief that he suffered intensely in a horrific way to benefit every single human soul. Hence, why so many loved the movie The Passion of the Christ, which focused so much his torture, rather than his larger life or message.
gyniest 8 months ago
hewitt's sinful pride wouldnt let sam beat him unless he angrily insults him at end of this charade, i mean debate.
TheeMikeHoncho 8 months ago
193 likes so far and 2 dislikes tells me Mr Hugh "fucking idiot" Hewitt lost this battle.
funknotik 8 months ago
notice how Sam is cut off at 2:30 after making a perfectly valid point that Strobel or Hewwit couldn't answer...
JohnGolbunny 8 months ago
Typical christian. When their arguments are flopping, they resort to ad-hominen attacks.
Campineiroamericano 8 months ago
they kept cutting off Sam....this is biased christian bullshit
arcanix333 9 months ago 2
Sam's grin at the end is priceless. He was trying to hold his composure I think. That's exactly what he wanted to happen because Hewitt completely discredits himself by attacking at the end when he lost the argument.
driekone 9 months ago
The problem with these holy rollers is that we know they're deluded so how can we take them seriously. As soon as they open their mouths they sound like madmen. Invisible sky daddy's? Rising from the dead, Walking on water? Bat Schitt Crazy!
QueOraSi 9 months ago
*rolleyes*
twooffour 9 months ago
Lee Strobel actually seemed uncannily fair as a host/moderator...
reb3331 9 months ago
"We do not jail people for being stupid." - brilliant!
Nygaard2 9 months ago
Hugh keeps repeated that "he has read Sam's book" and read it carefully, yet, his opinions reflect that:
1) he actually did not
2) did, but didn't understand what he was reading
3) skimmed it
4) skimmed it while importing his own ideas of what was being said
5) is lying
belodeau 9 months ago 4
Hugh keeps dodging Sam's points.
D3ltra 9 months ago 2
Hugh Hewitt made a very revealing statement: "...reformations in faith are important, and they need to be linked with reformations in government...". There you have it. I'm sure Hewitt thinks of himself as a "moderate"--but if he and others who believe as he does had their way, we would be a Christian theocracy. This is why we atheists must speak out and oppose. We cannot remain silent and just let them have their way.
DandAinTac 9 months ago
Yep you know someone has run the tank very very empty when they resort to insults.
Sam is spot on the mark every time.
Wrahns 9 months ago 4
Typical christian response: "Well you're just stupid and close minded!". Thats pretty much what Hewitt said to Sam and its a pitiful response
kwith 9 months ago
its like talking to a brick wall.....
jacobpaprotskiy 9 months ago 2
"God" isn't persistent because he's real, Christianity is still around because too many people people have a LOT to lose if it goes away. Religion is a multi million dollar business.
s8ntmark 9 months ago 2
Hugh is a huge classless asshole.
mrdalerod1 10 months ago
His frustration at Sam being smart really coming through at the end there.
lanceawatt 10 months ago
That was the lamest Christian apologist I've ever heard!
You're wrong about God existing because God exists, nyah nyah nyah . . .
So sad.
mdiem 10 months ago
...So who cares? Let em drown in their own self-masturbatory sanctimonious. People who make it their primarary mission to crusade against faith are WASTING THEIR LIVES.
Don't we have VASTLY more important things to be doing?
Harris is right about Islamic Jihadists though. I fought them. Thier insane Death Cult DESERVES to be eradicated. It is what they crave. Truly.
FrmMyColdDeadFingers 10 months ago
@FrmMyColdDeadFingers The point is that religion halts progress in many ways and is a pressing issue in America. America is in an age of anti intellectualism. Are you telling me that religion isn't a factor?
Religion teaches people from a very young age to believe in authority and tradition and abandon our natural skepticism.
This is a very bad thing that has far reaching consequences in our society.
jmvasquez 10 months ago
... of crucial issues facing America.
For all of you thinking you can run cognitive circles around this 'mental midget', by all means, call into his radio show & debate him. Prove your intellectual superiority. Be sure to post your results here on YouTube as a respnse to this video. Ha! Trust me, YOU aren't that smart.
As an agnostic, I have to ask, why do real thinkers like Hewitt feel the need to respond to those attacking religion? Thier attacks don't really undermine your faith, right? S
FrmMyColdDeadFingers 10 months ago
@FrmMyColdDeadFingers yes they do! When they are alone, counting the money they sustract from the brainwashed sheeps, they might think of his followers;" how fukng stupid is these ppl',im getting rich just by supporting this stupid bronze age tale and THEY BELIEVE IT"
nikur 10 months ago
I agree that Hewitt's last statement was ad homonym & unnecessary, but he is HARDLY an idiot. All of you so contemptuously calling him 'stupid' would be OBLITERATED by him in a real debate.
I don't agree with his views on religion (nor the views of Harris) but Hewitt will absolutely wipe the floor with any Statist/Collectivist in a debate on taxes, spending, the private sector economy, the regulatory & welfare states, individual liberty, personal responsibility, the rule of law, or any number
FrmMyColdDeadFingers 10 months ago
@FrmMyColdDeadFingers He's still an idiot with regards to religion. He thinks morality comes form the Bible and says the same things every other religious person says when confronted with the horrible things their religion is used to justify: Well the true version of my religion doesn't say that, or that's not my god.
Hiding from the real issue of them believing in a god on less evidence than they would believe anything else.
jmvasquez 10 months ago
@FrmMyColdDeadFingers And Sam can beat him on any topic of religion or science. Problem?
Kosiguru 7 months ago
Sam Harris: PhD in Neuroscience from UCLA, and he has to deal with some moron saying "You're not that smart."
hobokombat 10 months ago
For those of us who can't be bothered to take place in this tiresome debate over if there is a god or not, we thank Harris for taking the time to debate these mental infants.
ANYONEMusiC 10 months ago
Pathetic argument from Hugh Hewitt. Desperation and name calling. Notice how calm and reserved Sam Harris always is in conversation, logic is on his side
FactNotFaith 10 months ago
"You're not that smart." Resorting to that kind of comment shows obvious desperation in a losing argument.
corychivers 10 months ago 3
We do not jail people for being STUPID. Hahahahahahaha
michgarv 10 months ago
i love how Sam never gets mad. Just like Barrack Obama never gets mad. And both of them never interrupt when they have been interrupted.
michgarv 10 months ago
4:40 anecdotes are not evidence. How can people be so gullible?
gotitans999 10 months ago
I appreciate Sam Harris' calm reasonable approach. In the end, the other guy basically attacks him. Typical religion....
womanlybassplayer 10 months ago
What was God doing "in peoples lives" during the earthquake in Japan?
examinfo 10 months ago
The God of the Old Testament speaks to Abrahams and says "Take you son Isaac where I tell you and cut his guts out" (I paraphrase) then later, after stopping the sacrifice, says "I know you really love me because you were willing to kill your only son."
Folks, that's sadistic insanity.
bramachari 10 months ago 3
The bottom line is that if Christians really were "in with God," the God who created the Universe, not much would bother them.
But they are among the most easily upset pussies you'll ever meet, and they often run to the protection of The State.
They demonstrate no great gifts or talents that would make them stand out in any good way from other religious groups.
The path of Hinduism is wonderfully superior to the burden of bizarre Christian ideas, especially their apocalyptic visions.
bramachari 10 months ago
"You're not that smart!" is not a good argument. Sorry.
ltmaniac 10 months ago 2
LOL, Hugh must have known he got destroyed when he resorted to telling Sam that he wasn't smart....LOL....Fuck you Hugh, and fuck your stupid beliefs
tubiejonny 10 months ago 3
@tubiejonny
I had the exact same thought. Nice argument. Harris may not be "that" smart (though I certainly think he is), but he is apparently smarter that Hugh Hewitt.
TheSinisterKitty 10 months ago 2
hahahaha. Hugh is a such a joke. That was embarrassing. And remember, we cannot forget to make sure we refer to one of the gods as "He". HAH.
JBeezie428 10 months ago
"Shit, he just used quotes from my own holy book against me...I know, I'll call him stupid...yeah...now look who's stupid, Mr. Harris."
Damarcast 10 months ago 3
lol jefferson was by no means a christian
maxfedor1 11 months ago 3
Sam still crushes these two dim-wits despite them trying to twist words around and play word games. Hugh Hewitt does not know how to debate, what a miss-informed buffoon!
drbrandovalentine 11 months ago
Sam Harris is smarter than god, that is if there is one
slap2tap2 11 months ago
"rhetorical jihad" hahahahahhahaha.
Thanks, brainiac. I needed that.
Ematched 11 months ago
I really hope the future has less people like Hugh Hewitt and more like Sam Harris. I hope I live long enough to see just the beginning of a time when people use reason and logic instead of 1st century mythology.
Shame on us for brain washing our children into becoming a man like Hugh. Although it doesn’t really seem like it now, we ARE strong enough to stand up against religious dogma and ignorance.
northoforacle 11 months ago
@northoforacle Well said, sir.
nothingnesswithouten 10 months ago
He finishes with an ad hominem. Funny and quite shocking from a trial lawyer.
nomadtrash88 11 months ago
@nomadtrash88 This is exactly what I was thinking lewl
ShinobiBoiX 11 months ago
That was a really solid counterargument. He got told and retreated to trying to call Sam Harris stupid. Well done. Bloody brilliant job.
LojiQaen 11 months ago
BONER
kayshard 11 months ago
I think Harris is that smart :) Hewitt is so pathetic at the end.
Territomauvais 11 months ago