General Vlassov anti-Stalinist Axis partner (Nov 1944)

[chickenwretch]

700,000 Russians fought along with the Germans not because they were Nazis, but because they saw in Stalin the betrayal of the Russian people. Vlasov, greatest hero and patriot of the war.

[notaire2]

Sehr seltener Bericht von General Vlassov. Danke fürs Hochladen!

[NormanLowell]

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[IanHunedoara8]

Vlasov was a capable Soviet commander who was captured after being encircled near Rhzev after the battles near Moscow, Dec 1941. Vlasov was well ware of Stalin's senseless destructive policies had destroyed the armed forces as well as the nation. But he wasn't aware of the other devil he had to dance with.

[vadimchang99]

why did vlasov chose to fight in the german army..was he forced to..in wiki..it stated that vlasov was hanged in moscow..i think most soviets think that vlasov betrayed russia

[IanHunedoara8]

Like many Soviet soldiers captured after 6/41 he was doomed form the outset. See movie StrafBat to see fate of captured officers who refused to join Vlasovtsy and later of fate of captured Vlasovist officer by Soviet.

[IustitiaPax]

@IanHunedoara8. Those who refused to join Vlassov had nothing to fear. They just remained in the prisoner camps for Soviet POWs in Germany, France, Poland, Latvia, Belarus. You forget, that many Soviet soldiers could also opt for forced labour on German farms etc. Millions from Ukraine were drafted, but many Russians volunteered to work in Germany in 1943.

[IanHunedoara8]

@IustitiaPax .5 million Soviet prisoners who refused to join Vlasovtsy died during captivity from various causes- starvation, exposure, execution, as guinea pigs for experiments, etc. Vlasovtsy ended up being so revolted by SS brutality that in the last weeks they were fighting Germans in Karawanken. Precious few Slavs "volunteered" for work in Reich

[IustitiaPax]

Nonsense. These are Soviet statistics. About 800,000 Soviet POWs died, especially in 1941, because the offensive forces of the Red Army at the border with Germany-Romania-Hungary were formed from millions, and the German Army never thought to make so many POWs. Many Slavs volunteered to work in the Reich: Slovakians, Bulgarians, Croats, even many Poles did so. You just do not want to believe this.

[IanHunedoara8]

@IustitiaPax Armija Krajowa was virtually annihilated by SS and Ukrainian Fascists at Warsaw by Dec 1944 and did not play a role in the fighting afterwards. Armija Ludowo fought in Pommern (Pomorze) There was never a "Protektorat" over Poland, unlike Czechia and Moravska. Direct Nazi control under "GeneralGouvernmemt" was an SS colony under Hans Frank.

[IustitiaPax]

Armija Krajowa was indeed weakened and almost destroyed. But Narodowe Siły Zbrojne (NSZ-AK) retreated into the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia in January 1945, with Nazi permission. I agree, that "Generalne Gubernatorstwo na okupowanych ziemiach polskich" was indeed more or less a colony. But many Polish collaborators, and Polish blue police. You Poles always forget or deny the complex sides. And the Soviet KGB invented "Generalplan Ost" propaganda lie.

[IanHunedoara8]

@IustitiaPax What Polish?? I'm a Greek of  ethnic Vlakh descent and student of WW2 history

[IustitiaPax]

The ROA in the Karawanken and in the Czech Protectorate wanted to justify themselves, in the face of coming Soviet reprisals, to gain Allied status with western Allies, like the ZB Armia Krajowa forces of Polish resistance (who in Febr 1945 had allied with Nazis and receded into Protektorát). You also forget the millions of Ukrainian SS volunteers and volunteer workers from Galicia. You only believe Soviet, Anglo-American "anti-Fascist" propaganda. That is: you believe lies.

[IanHunedoara8]

@IustitiaPax Yes, the same "lies" that turned Von Staufenberg against Hitler after witnessing atrocities at the Eastern Front???

[IustitiaPax]

General von Stauffenberg saw mostly atrocities. In the senseless war at the Eastern front. He also witnessed all Soviet atrocities in 1941, when he still favoured the preventive strike against USSR. By 1944, however, he came to realize, that many noblemen were imprisoned by Gestapo in Germany, and of the totalitarian regime the Nazi leadership had established. In 1939-42, there was in Nazi Germany more freedom of speech and freedom of press, than in Germany or UK today (political correctness).

[IustitiaPax]

Von Stauffenberg's attempt would have meant nothing, as England, USA and Free French wanted the destruction of Germany, not just of Nazi dictatorship. It was a socio-economic war against German autarky and German independence in Europe, threatening Anglo-American hegemony and French domination of West Europe.

[ChoppedLiver44060]

Some questions: Did Vlassov say publicly in 1942 that russia was preparing to attack Germany in sept of 1941?

Also, Who captured Vlassov? Himmler stated that Fegelein did, however wikipedia disagrees. Does anyone know for sure?

[UFCMania98]

yes, that is true...there is plenty of evidence to support the claim that russia was going to attack Germany in sept of '41. first of all, look at the massive amounts of russian prisoners captured by the German army in the opening stages of operation barbarossa. and second of all stalin even gave orders for there to be an attack on Germany in the fall of '41. go on google and type in "stalin's secret war plans" and it's the first link on the first page

[ChoppedLiver44060]

Well I already thought stalin was being manipulative, taking advantage of the situation in the west... of course he wasn't the only dishonest person in the mix..

I understand that even FDR knew of the molitov-Ribbontrop pact and refused to have the polish govt. informed.

Dividing Poland was (for one reason) to stalin's advantage because it eliminated a buffer state and created a frontier with Germany. Stalin was also hoping to trigger the powder keg that was the 'danzig question'.

[ChoppedLiver44060]

After the failure of the Munich Agreement to keep the british satisfied, they were hell bent on war as well. The French had already given Poland a guarantee, which stalin knew about. The Nazi-soviet pact provided the means to trigger that war. I believe that stalin knew this, he wasn't a dummy, just an a-hole. The polish govt wasn't interested in talks, they were ready to rely on guarantees from France and Britian. In the end stalin got everything that he wanted.

[vadimchang99]

well..the german army did

[ChoppedLiver44060]

I've read an account where (then) colonel fegelein crossed enemy lines with a platoon of stugs to capture vlassov, but I'd like it verified if at all possible

[Russianpartiot]

Thx for material

[IustitiaPax]

Well, maybe, but antisemitism and the extermination policy against Jews was not only due to the 1933 Jewish boycott of German goods ("Judea declares war on Germany" articles etc.). The Germans erected the Lokot Autonomy and in Belarus there were Nazi Belarussian parties. I think Rosenberg favoured a Baltic German solution in Ukraine: German settlements among the Slavic population. It is imperialism, but not directly racism always. Hitler was himself more Alpine & Slavic than Germanic looking.

[IustitiaPax]

Well, of course. But Judaism (Talmud-Kabbalah Rabbinism created 5th century after Christ) is a religion more or less. Not an ideology as such. Erhard Milch had a Jewish wife. German soldiers were half-Jews often. See "Werner Goldberg", the "ideal Aryan" for Nazi propaganda. A half-Jew. Racism is foolish. Nazi racism was contradictory, but no less criminal of course. Hitler's father was probably begotten by the Jewish banker Frankenberger of Graz. My Messiah was Jew. And God.

[IustitiaPax]

You know, the historical problem is that contrary to the historical myths taught in Western schools on Nazism, the Nazi ideology was only clear about antisemitism, anti-Jewish hatred. And even that not always. And on national community it was clear, anti-capitalist, anti-marxist. But on racial affairs there were many differences. And Bulgaria and Slovakia were allies of the Nazis. Arthur Seyss-Inquart (Zajtich) was ethnic Czech who was leading Nazi in Holland 1940-1945.

[IustitiaPax]

It is indeed weird, how a part of Russian youths are in neo-Nazi groups, while others are in the Nashi group (Putin Kremlin Youth), also Russian-nationalist, but not Nazi. It is weird how often (quite Jewish) Marxist governments are followed by antisemitic, racist Nazi extremist ideologies. The same in Hungary 1930s, DDR after 1991, and now Russia after 1992 (USSR dissection). Typical. Rosenberg was pro-Russian, but Erich Koch and Himmler were anti-Slavic mostly.

[IustitiaPax]

And the Russians still on May 9 celebrate with Soviet symbols the "Victory of the Soviet Union against Fascism". Mussolini was a Marxist in the past, Horst Mahler was a RAF Marxist now NeoNazis. I can believe the KGB-FSB in Russia became less communist and more nationalist-Russian. But supporting Nazi Russian groups? The Russians still say they hate "Fascism". So? I think the problem is there, but exaggerated. The Russian government just does not think the Neo-Nazis are a threat yet.

[IustitiaPax]

Especially inside Russia. yesterday I watched a short documentary on GERMAN tv warning about Russian (neo-)Nazi groups who promoted hatred against all non-European looking inhabitants of e.g. Moscow and Wolgograd. Inside modern Germany, neo-Nazis are mostly set up by the secret service BND in order to neutralize the few real nazis. German tv said that in Russia, possibly the former KGB, now FSB, is "involved in supporting nazi groups". But why? Russian nationalism? The KGB was Marxist not?

[IustitiaPax]

Do you know that the "Legion Freies Arabien" (created in Iraq and occupied southern Egypy and southern Italian-Libya) had many Islamic black (negroid) persons as volunteers? That the Muslem Arab nationalist Waffen-SS volunteers were Semites in race more than Werner Goldberg (the pure Aryan but Half-Jewish Wehrmacht soldier)? Racism is madness and gravest error, resulting in genocide mostly. Our Lord Jesus Christ was truly of the tribe of Judah. Germans were saved by His Jewish blood.

[IustitiaPax]

Quite so. Himmler was a Buddhist, a believe in the Vedi of Hinduism, he hated his childhood Catholic Christianity, and he believed in a "pure race". He himself was rather Alpine racially, more than Germanic. The Nazis did not all view the entire Russian people as "subhumans". That is Allied propaganda. The Nazi propaganda only depicted Jews and the "Soviet Man" as "Untermensch". Quite Nietzsche'an concept in fact.

[IustitiaPax]

Well, had not Himmler's racism and the SS revenge policies after February 1943 destroyed sympathy among Russians, Belarussians and Ukrainians for the anti-Bolshevik "crusade" of the Axis and Hitler Germany, things would have been differently. But Hitler was racist himself too. Sometimes. He loved the Grand Mufti (a Semite in fact himself), but he despised Czechs. Weird. Nazi race madness and inconsistency. All conservative Wehrmacht wanted Slavic volunteers. But it was forbidden...

[IustitiaPax]

Very true. And Poland has partially German president Donald Tusk with some ethnic German speaking (but Catholic) ancestors from West Prussia. Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski. Bogislaw von Bonin. Well, Nazi ideology on race was not clear, but eclectic. Alfred Rosenberg considered all Slavs to be "Aryans" (another faked racist madness concept, but in fact linguistic and Indian). Ukrainians, Russians, Belarussians fought for Axis, and had their Nazi ethnic parties. With German Nazi support!

[IustitiaPax]

Again, just look at Wehrmacht commanders Bogislaw von Bonin & Smilo Freiherr von Lüttwitz, or Otto Skorzeny. All Slavic names.

[IustitiaPax]

Racism is always nonsense. Antisemitism is also madness. Yet it is a failure to reduce the political history of the NS-German Reich to racism and social-darwinist ideologies. The Nazis were brutal of course, but I do not think they purposely murdered Ukrainians and Russians at all. And the common German soldier did not of course. Well, the Eastern Front in Soviet Russia was hell. On both sides, and the partisan fightings etc. and Nazi revenge.

[Hells74]

Germans (Fascists) were stupid.

They should of liberated the lands in the east from the communist.

The Germans instead wanted to build this crazy empire.

[IustitiaPax]

Of course the Russian white emigrés did not live through the battles and devastation of the 1944 eastern fronts of course. But it is true that Germany was not per se anti-Russian in ethnicity. And even Nazis knew many Germans had Russian ancestors, and that Germans were 1/3 Slavs to their blood. Only Lower Saxony, Westphalia and Schleswig were "really Germanic".

[IustitiaPax]

That is true, because Poles and Kashubians are partly also mixed with ethnic German who were polonized, and like Ukrainians and Muscovite Russians, have also Viking and Gothic blood from earlier settlements. Slavs are Indo-Europeans. The Austrians and Bavarians have more Alpine race blood, from Old European tribes from Roman times and from Kelts and Romans. Race madness is always madness. Nazi and Pan-Slavism.

[IustitiaPax]

Not only General Vlassov had a Russian pro-Hitler army, but also the Russian Corps in Nedic' Serbia, and the Borislav Kaminski Brigade in Belarus and Smolensk. Do not forget this. It is very sad that the racism and anti-Slavism inside the SS destroyed and alienated so many anti-communist allies, also in Ukraine. The German Wehrmacht was less political, less racist, less antisemitic. They initially gained many Slavic allies.

[daltonagre]

General Vlassov surredered to the americans.Then, they sent he to the Soviet Union.He was hanged in 1946.

[IustitiaPax]

Nice how Roosevelt and his ilk, who would in 1955 be finally assembled and condemned as Communist spies, in 1945 betrayed anti-Communists. Eisenhower was better: he respected Latvian and Estonian Legionaires, who had combatted Bolshevism.

[AAFKaban]

Sieg heil for general Vlasov!!! True Russian hero!!

[ca742]

Власов до плена бил фашистов, а как отведал лагеря то кишка не выдержала и решил стать борцом с большевизмом, благо освободили и кормили хорошо. Он не патриот  а обыкновенный предатель, которого фрицы возвели в ранг главного в РОА. Получил по заслугам!

[Komissar1945]

Real Russian patriots were fighting against Nazi Germans, as their ancestors 700 years before, when German knights tried to invade Russia, and we'll do it again and again.

[beepeelow]

Don't be fooled, the Germans meant to wipe out the Russian race and use their land for living space. Communism aside, this was the great fight for survival of the Russian people. General Vlassov was indeed a traitor. He switched from a Red Army uniform to a German one - and fought the people he once led. Any nation would kill such a character.

[14Sebastian88]

The god old times German and Russian patriots united against the true enemy of Europe Jewish-Bolshevism. NS Victory-Europe's Freedom

[PlantNr30]

When somebody turns to hostiles' site and gave military swear to A. Hitler - that is definitely called a treason. And looking to "search for freedom" - this sh*t is right for such betrayers in all wars

[CrispinRobles]

There's no doubt that Vlassov was a hero and a martyr. He was handed over to the Bolsheviks by the allies, and the commies killed him.

[TrueCommunist]

Instead they shot him!

Humane bastard!

Cause of him, I would gladly forget about being a communist a day!