Ah, the wacko dream of going into the womens bathroom without being harassed is becoming a reality for thousands of male sickos. I'll bet you there will be a certain pair of feet in some stalls for hours on end.
This is a sad decision by our political pundits. This decision has has opened a door that should stay shut! Now we will have Men! dressing as women using our public restrooms. Exposing themselves to women and children, and possible rape. Anything goes now, nothing surprises me anymore. The Sickness of our society has gone over board. Exposes alot about our medical field and how wrong they are to say these people are normal.
I live in Montgomery County, MD and I 100% support the transgender law.
The US Constitution states:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
So, if you deny any group rights, you are not only a bigot but unconstitutional. Stop trying to mix religion and politics! This is the USA, like it or leave!
These sort of laws open the door for all kinds of weirdos to claim discrimination. What about people who believe they are cats trapped in human form? Should businesses and govt offices should be forced by law to put litterboxes in all restrooms for catpeople to feel comfortable? A law stating catpeople can't be turned down for employment on the basis of "species self-identification"? In the workplace catpeople should be guaranteed by law a quiet area where they can lick themselves clean?
It's been more than ten years since I have visited a mall, airport or modern public facility that has not had one or more private use restrooms. The blue and white international symbol over the door shows that it is for use by varied genders. If anything, this is the sort of bathroom that should be promoted for transgender, etc. use. Hello, it's just common sense.
Good intentions perhaps, but this law was rewritten to address problems of a select few and there's nothing to prevent a Joe or Jane Pervert from dressing in a gender d'jour to visit their chosen restroom. You can argue that molesters would be subject to prosecution, but why would you want to even expose anyone (especially children) to the increased risk?
Hmm, seems Ms. Beyer is a little touchy about this subject, perhaps this is a personal issue for (him/her?). Seems like harassment to me. If you accuse people of illegal actions when you know that to be untrue, you are deliberately trying to intimidate them, and yes, that's harassment.
Of course you do'nt see it because as a good little liberal harrasement only occurs when you guys do petitions. Ohh and by the way as far as Human Rights Campaign, GLAAD, PFLAG, GLSEN, getting paid by tax payers they do, only the money comes under the guise of health subsidies for HIV Out reaches like the Gay Men's Health Crisis in NYC, and the many Gay Centers that pop up in every state. It is true that members support them but they get a cut from Uncle Sam every year!
Hmm, she tells them they will have to leave and anything they are doing will not count - nah, she's just being a nice helpful lady....NOT! Open your eyes.
She/He is lying to them and attempting to trick them from exercising their rights as merican citizens. It just goes to show that people like her/him demand that normal people not only tolerate them, but accept them as normal, while at the same time refusng to acknowledge that we have a right to speak the truth and to help others to see the truth.
Every ten minutes a child is born, 1/2500, in which the doctor cannot determine the sex, or gender. These children are Intersex; they are born into a life of not male or female. Likewise in similar fashion the Transsexual is identified with a Bioneurological congenital condition they too are locked into something not quite so clearly defined as male, or female.
Genital deformity is not the same as having an inter-sex chromosome--which does not exist? "The Boy Who was Raised as a Girl" shows how compelling chromosomes are regardless of physccal appearance. Agreed, mental state is much more arguable but GID is classified as a treatable disorder.
The best Transsexuals and Intersex can do is live as close to what we seem to believe we are. That may preclude the wants, and often ignorant and bigoted beliefs of others. In what case do we ignore this issue and abandon the children who now cannot hide?
How can anyone continue in hate and prejudice so as to deny simple equality and justice? It is either time for change and understanding, or simply wheedle out the transgender element as inhuman and adopt the final solution as Hitler visualized? Not an easy thing to resolve, but one that is present and will not go away.
Taking a stand against a bunch of hatemongering, bigoted bullies determined to marginalize and vilify people who's only crime is being different does not qualify as intolerance or in itself bullying. It never has. Though it's easy to see how you'd say that because people who don't resist are easier to bulldoze. I don't know what is more repugnant - the ignorance of the "moral" or the way bullies always say they are the victims.
obviously someone has blocked me from making any but the most innocuous statements here. I can't even post web sites which support what I have written.
Still waiting for you to answer why your creater, if it was meant to be give us both body parts and a different phys and psycological structure so we can choose what we want to be. I have given you more than a week. Where is your answer? I get a thumbs down from someone, but of course, no answer as to why!!
So, if a guy goes into a ladies rest room, and he thinks of himself as a woman, dresses like a woman, and acts like a woman, goes into a booth and shuts the door where he can't see out and nobody can see in except for feet - how does that hurt anyone or traumatize children? How does anyone even know about it?
If ANYBODY goes into a rest room and starts to sexually molest anyone else, that's illegal and would continue to be so, right?
Yeah! What are people thinking is going on in ladies rooms anyway? Seems a bit hysterical raving to me.
I don't see any slippery slope here. Even in an anonymous space like this no one is getting very detailed about what injury is suffered by these children. In contrast, repealling the law would cause well-known injury to the TG community.
Perhaps, seeing this, they passed the law in the first place.
How did Rickman just happen to be at that club hanging around the lobby on the day of the incident when her club is in Bethesda? How did she just happen to have a prepared statement for the press when they showed up? How did the alleged transgender person manage to slip away without anyone stoping that person. The management has said that they were notified that something was happening but the person disappeared before they could do anything.
Ok, I have had it with these lies being repeated. I was NOT, repeat NOT at Rio Sport and Health the day some guy walked into the ladies room. The media was called by the lady who was present in the ladies room (Mary Ann Andre) the evening it happened. We got another call from a different lady telling us about it. We called the media. We found out the media was running a story the NEXT day, and of course went over to the club because we wanted them to talk about the petition drive.
Since I was not there, I can substantiate your claim. However, it has been reported that club personnel identified Theresa Rickman as the activist who was in the lobby when the event happened. That has been reported in several web areas with the name of the club personnel who reported you present.
This is Theresa and I was not there the day it happened. That rumour was started by Jim Kennedy of teach the facts, who was not there the day it happened. I was there the day after it happened, again, because we had gotten a call back from the robo calls indicating that a man had gone in the ladies room. the day before. Or you can call the gym and ask them. But please stop repeating information which is incorrect.
You are intent about holding Dana Beyers feet over the fire in regards to the supermarket incident, but why aren't you intent on holding Theresa Rickman or Mary Ann Ondray (Andree) feet over the fire for the staged incident at the Rio Sports and Health Club. Yes it was a staged incident and Rickman is a member of CRG MD and likely Andree too.
Before you label someone "mentally ill" because they present facts and ask questions you should do a little reading of your own diatribes. You write from emotion not intelligence and knowledge. As the fictional character Jack Webb use to say "Just the facts.".
Actually, just the opposite. It is obvious you have no knowledge of the DSM IV TR at 302.85. You just make it up as you go along and infer everyone else ignorant. Maybe some are but they still have common sense. And at least they are neither self-deceived or liars.
Is there anyone posting here who was actually at this incident and can write about it objectively? So far all everyone here (myself included) has written about is their response to this short, one-sided clip which is all MD CRG wants us to see. Has anyone seen the one-sided channel 7 pro-CRG clip on this incident? Or even read any of the contoversy about this incident on other web sites? Has anyone even spoken to Ms Beyer or the assemblywoman she works for to hear the other side of this story?
Can the MD CRG please post the rest of this clip. The part that begins with a man saying "Oh, by the way..."? And can someone please explain when someone speaks what they know to be true is a "lie" and how anyone with commonsense can construe this as harassment?
It is unfortunate that transgenderism is thought to be a type of lifestyle rather than a true mismatch of biological and mental gender identity. What is even weirder is the perception that men adopting the appearance and behavior of ordinary women is thought to be perverse. Is that some sort of misogyny? Are people upset about women appearing as men? I don't think so.
It certainly is a condition and can 'happen' to any loved one. Compassion is called for, not condemnation.
You are right. Compassion is called for...not militant legislation classifying a mental disorder as a civil right.
Whether or not travestitism and related conditions are perverse is not the point. The fact the the behavior is both abnormal and aberrant is a fact.
Pedophilia is also a disorder and they claim they are also born that way--should we also legislate that they have a civil right to have sex with minors?
I gather that, by comparing it to pedophilia, you think transgenderism is associated with criminal behavior. Perhaps that is a common misperception and explains why some people are down on trannies. What kind of crimes are we talking about here? Using public restrooms?
Teaching that it is ok for young kids to dress and act against their sex. Being female or male is more than physical, but a mental issue. If parents raised their kids right, this whole thing would never be a isssue. The other thing, is trying to get tax payers to pay for their lifestyle and changing the fabric of society to accomidate them.
I am not aware of a single taxpayer expense that is expressly for transgendered individuals. Do tell, I am curious.
The fabric of society accommodates quite a lot of exceptions to the 'norm' and benefits enormously from doing so. The Americans With Disabilities Act comes to mind. Perhaps that law is disagreeable to you as well. Just hope that you do not beome disabled.
Whoever said tax money goes to transgendered is absolutely retarded. No money goes to the transgendered. None. But then, a lot of tax money goes to churches by means of tax exempt status. The very same churches that oppress and spread bigotry against lesbian, gay, and transgendered people.
How much in taxes does Human Rights Campaign, GLAAD, GLAD, PFLAG, ACLU, GLSEN, Equality Maryland, Gay Task Force, ACT-UP, etc. etc. pay? The answer is zero. They are all nonprofits like churches.
On the other hand, churches build schools, run day care centers, provide humantarian relief of all types, run shelters for homeless and abused women, and so on.
LGBT organizations do one thing and one thing only: promote LGBT interests.
So who is more deserving of the nonprofit tax status?
I gather that you want to play word games rather than answer the question. Transgenderism and pedophilia are both mental disorders. Both groups try to justify rights to the aberrant behavior by claiming they were born that way--an irrelevant argument.
I don't seek to play word games. Nor do I recall you presenting a question. What was your question?
In regards to GID and pedophilia both being mental disorders,just because they are listed in the same manual does not mean there is a correlation between the two. The only association they share is that the APA lists both as disorders. How can you related violence towards children with GID?
Being mentally ill does not generate a right that infringes upon everyone elses rights.
Likewise, claiming rights as amelioration for self-programed minority victim status.
Demand elevators have windows for claustrophobics. Demand elevators never have glass for acrophobics?
And BTW, there is a high correlation between various sexual disorders which is why they are not just in the same manual but same category of psychopathology.
whooo boy! that last statement of yours on the DSM is a doozy! Since when does the right to the same civil rights as other citizens infringe on the rights of others.
As for the correlation between the various "sexual" disorders, is that they are sexual. Pedophilia is a sexual disorder and GID is thought to be sexual so they are lumped in the same category. Any other correlation is pure speculation. Now will you tell me you know different because you work in the psychology field?
First off, read the DSM-4 to find out what it really say about the issue. Don't take someone else's word on it. Secondly if you can't understand it, ask an expert who deals with transgender folks.
Pedophilia is more than a disorder, it is a crime. It victimizes children. Truely dispicable!
Just because two things are listed together in a book doesn't mean that they are related or should even be considered in the same manner.
The fact is, either you are pretending to have read DSM but ignorant and relying upon what someone else has told you is in it OR totalling distorting the DSM IV.
One can tell by the anti-transgender comments here that the vast majority of these commenters have no idea what they are speaking out against. The ignorance of the subject speaks volumes (or is it volumns?) However, if just one person's mind can be opened in regards to the subject, it's worth it to counter their bigoted misconceptions.
And I am reminded of one of the key foundations of propaganda:
"The propagandists will not accuse the enemy of just any misdeed; he will accuse him of the very intention he himself has." Jacques Ellul, Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Minds.
Of course it's everyone else who is hateful, bigoted, and ignorant that you must educate.
No one said or intimidated that everyone else is hateful, bigoted and ignorant. Heaven knows I've proved my ignorance on one thing here. However, the issue here isn't just about the "bathroom" issue, it's about denying equality in life under the law to an entire group of people if the law is repealed on referendum. The "bathroom" issue could be resolved by making an amendment to the law exempting certain facilities like lockerroom and certain organizations like religious ones.
The public accommodation issue was explained. The CRG didn't like the answer. So their answer is to attempt to repeal the bill. So the issue now is the denial of equal civil rights to transgender folks. If it is all about the public accommodation issue why doesn't CRG work to get that section amended or repealed instead of the entire bill? Why are they intent on destroying a bill to guarantee equal civil rights to transgender folks
These people are sick. Ever notice they always bring up pedophila? It's always the fundies pushing it because it's always on their minds as their priests fondle some kid in the backroom.
jppen, this statement tells us much about you. I speaks of your intolerance, hatred and bigotry of and towards transgender people. By your own use of the word "it" you show that you don't even believe trangender folks are human. It's sad when someone has so little, if any, regard for human life.
I have hate for people that defey what their creater gave them. Your just pissed because there are people out there that do not have the "anything goes" attitude. I suppose next if a person wants to have sex with animals, you would support that. People can do what they want with their own bodies. But as a tax payer, I will not support transgender bathrooms, any such law supporting that lifestyle and the teaching of that corruption to young children.
"..defy what their creator gave them."? How can you be so very sure that the creator didn't allow this to happen, for people to be born with gid as well as being born hermaphrodites, pseudo-hermaphrodites or with Klinefelter's or Turner's or other chromosomal and mental syndromes related to physical sex and gender.
To which lifestyle are you referring? I don'tknow a gay man, lesbian or transgender person who lives a lifestyle which is different from the average citizen.
"..defy what their creator gave them."? How can you be so very sure that the creator didn't allow this to happen, for people to be born with gid as well as being born hermaphrodites, pseudo-hermaphrodites or with Klinefelter's or Turner's or other chromosomal and mental syndromes related to physical sex and gender.
To which lifestyle are you referring? I don'tknow a gay man, lesbian or transgender person who lives a lifestyle which is different from the average citizen.
Ok. Tell me. If we were meant to be whatever we wanted, why do we not have both body parts so we can choose what we want to be?? Or is your creater a bigot and a hater and not diverse enough?
To which lifestyle are you referring? I don't know a gay male, lesbian, bisexual or transgender person who lives a lifestyle different from the average citizen. If you are referring to the stereotypical "licentious" lifestyle some attribute to these folks,then I suggest you take a visit to one of the "Spring Break" events or to your local nightclubs or check out the local swingers scene. It's a small group of heteros and gays not the majority who practice a licentious lifestyle.
This is another example of prefered speech and prefferd special interest groups using the State to dictate social mores.Thanks to PFOX and Citizens for Responsible Government for fighting back! You guys won and that is why they hate you!
Wrong! This is nothing about prefered speech or Prefered special interests groups using the state to dictate social mores. It's about respect for all humans and equal civil rights under the law. CRG hasn't won anything and when the truth wills out they will have egg all over their faces. I don't hate the CRG folks. I just don't understand why they want to deny equal rights to a home, a job, a life without fear and respect to other human beings.
What is our nation coming to? Berkeley disrespected our Marines, Montgomery County, Md wanting unisex showers, and a president who refuses to protect our borders! This is lunacy. It is nice to see Maryland Citizens for a Responsible Government taking a stand for sanity. Go guys!!!
In one respect, you are correct. With all the bigger problems in this country this entire matter doesn't even amount to a spit in the ocean. Instead of trying to work to resolve the war, poverty, terrorism and other larger problems, these folks in Montgomery County are worried about who's using the stall next to them in the bathroom. Don't worry, they are probably having the same bodily functions as you are. Then they are just interested in getting cleaned up and out of there.
Back in the 70's I visited communes that had group nudity as well as using the same toilets. That is okay if that is what you want. It is immoral to force it on other people's children. Those folks in Montgomery County are 110% right to be concerned as they are responsibile for determining what their minor children are exposed to. Those parents are being terrorised by idiots who are trying to force their morals or lack thereof on their children.
I agree. There are several videos showing the gay and trans community teaching young children, against the parents wishes that it is ok to be weird. Why do they do that? Simple, to corrupt the minds of children so when they grow up they will vote for the sickos cause!!
Teaching children about diversity is not wrong. Nature is by it's very existence diverse and so is human nature. Teaching children tolerance and love of others no matter how different they are is the right thing to do. Teaching children that all human beings are deserving of the same divine given rights to life, liberty and happiness is not subversive teachings. Parents should be teaching these things at home.
Thank you for you misconceptions and ideas. You are entitled to them.
So promoting diversity and equal right for all citizens is a "sicko cause" and corrupts children. Your agenda is quite clear, it's okay to teach children that they should discriminate against others just because they are different and don't fit your vision of how things should be. The words you use here inflame bigotry, hatred which can lead to violence against others. Is this what you would teach children?
Well I would teach morals. I would teach what my creator gave me and why. I would teach why it is wrong to defy what we are. I suppose you would want murders and rapist to have these same rights because they are different, they are born that way, and they are just expressing themselves. If you do not accept that, YOU are a bigot and hater!!
Since you admit there are much bigger problems in this country, then why is imposing transsexuality and trangenderism on others--both classified as mental disorders--your #1 priority?
No one is imposing transsexuality and trangenderism on others. No one is being told they have to crossdress or have SRS. The issue is equal treatment under the law, another prority for this country.
AS for being classified as mental disorders, have you even read the DSM-4. If you did, you would find that they are not mental disorders, but being the subject of ridicule, scorn, abandonment, hatred and violence leads to other problems which can lead to mental conditions.
A transexual activist marches over to a group of conservatives and says "Any petitions gatherd are illegal and you are being asked to leave!!!! Only a liberal could not see any intimidation here. This was nothing more than the left bullying people they disagree with! The left has a history of video taping conservatives also
and now that we are doing it to them it's out of context...baloney!! The petition was to keep men dresses as womn out of female bathrooms!
An activist informs a group that they are violating the law and the group sees that as harassment. Hmmm, on a larger scale does anyone not see that CRG is harrassing transgender people in general and endangering their lives and livelihood by denying them equality. The bathroom issues is a smokescreen. The CRG's real purpose is to deny equality to transgender people, deny them jobs and homes so the CRG folks can practice their brand of hatred and bigoty against the transgendered
Transgendered or whatever they are have problems. The american people do not want to pay for people who are confussed on what they are. If these weirdos want rights, form their own groups and have these sick people pay for each other!
Transgender folks are not confused,weirdos or sick people. They are just plain folks trying to make a living and enjoy life. The problems they have are folks like yourself who want to deny them their divine-given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Denying folks respect, courtesy, and equality under the law is discrimination. Bigots who discriminate agains others are the ones with problems.
Except that they were not violating any law. Another lie...this time by you. Deny equality? For what. Your vitriol is typical of the many hatemongers in the LGBT community who project their own hatred onto others. You comments suggest you are mentally ill.
that's what I'm trying to find out. Was there an e-mail sent out or not. CRG says no, Dana Beyer says yes. Another "he said,she said" scenerio. If such an e-mail existed has it a copy of it been presented as evidence.
As for hatred, I have none. I don't hate the CRG. I just can't understand why they are trying to repeal the entire law and deny equality to transgender folks. An attempt to change the law, I can understand but not full repeal.
Fair enough but one cannot prove there was not an email. Since Beyer claims and email, then Beyer should have it. 2nd, Clipboarders could be asked to leave private property, another Beyer claim totally unsubstantiated, but even that would not make the signatures illegal...another Beyer claim which is just false on its face.
Lastly, Beyer claimed the petition drive had been shut down at many stores, totally unsubstantiated by any other source.
I concede that Ms. Beyer's claim that the signatures would be illegal or disallowed is totally false. I don't see how they could be illegal. In regards to the clipboarders being asked to leave private property she obviously had been led to believe that would be the case. Or as you suggest she made it up. But since no one has asked her about it and she has not explained, make what you will of it. If no one asked them to leave, her statement was proven false. Can't argue with that.
What is interesting is what was cut out of this clip. What happened when this person left the petition gathers that the CRG did not show in the clip. This clip shows no harrassment, it's merely informing folks that they may be in the wrong. As for the CRG, who can believe in a group that staged a cross-dressed male in a women's lockerroom incident so that they could express "righteous" indignation? Hopefully, the press will expose the CRG's duplicity and conspiry.
First off Dana Beyer is an aide to an elected official not an elected official. Yes, she does serve on a steering committee for H. Clinton. As for lying, I don't know that Ms. Beyer was lying or not. What I do know is that the CRG's campaign is built on outright lies, deceit and misinformation. They have never done anything but try to get this legislation defeated because of their bigotry.
Also, I noticed that neither responder refuted what I wrote nor even tried to do so.
What's to respond to? You just classify anything you don't want to believe is a lie. Facts don't matter...you just spew allegations against CRG and hurl stupid insults because you have nothing else to offer.
Facts, to which facts are you referring. As far as I am concerned, neither side has presented any facts to support what happened in this incident. Do some research into the alleged locker room incident the CRG uses to push their agenda. The woman in the locker room is a member of CRG, this was not the gym she goes to, the "man" who entered the locker room was a member of the club involved but never identified, incident happened when there was only one woman in the locker room. All coincidences?
Montgomery County, Maryland, has broken biological barriers that separate male and female facilities. No longer will women and girls be able to feel safe in bathrooms, locker rooms, public pools, malls, stores, health clubs, restaurants and other public place, since Bill 23-07 was signed into law. It would allow males claiming to feel female to share all these facilities. Maryland Citizens filed a referendum to prevent it, and had to gather signatures on petitions to place before the voters.
Thirteen states and over 90 communities across the U.S. representing a good 2/3rds of the population have similar laws. Some of these date back to the 70s. There has never been an issue involving the use of bathrooms. The one incident that is recorded happened in Montgomery County recently. An incident instigated and carried out by members of CRG. The truth will eventually come out. Hopefully before the CRG can do more damage.
I agree with you. Men will also not feel safe with women dressed like men in public bathrooms. The people that have morals that want to fight this are called bigots and haters. The human race is the only being that goes against its own nature. These people exsists because parents simply, fail to be parents.
To what morals are you referring? Moral people don't deny equal rights to others just because they don't like them or the way they present themselves in public. That's what will happen if this reaches the voting stage and the referrendum is passed. As for going against nature, many things happen inutero that are unexplained and it is all part of nature. To blame it on parents is too simplistic. Do you believe that born hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites go against nature?
Ahhh....Dana.......The MAN of the hour. Why does he insist on passing himself off as a woman???? But then Buchy likes that kind of thing. Right????
Anyway, ladies, your vote is your weapon. Use it.
JNSP60 3 years ago
Ah, the wacko dream of going into the womens bathroom without being harassed is becoming a reality for thousands of male sickos. I'll bet you there will be a certain pair of feet in some stalls for hours on end.
marklang 3 years ago
@marklang: Ah, the haters are losing time and time again. =)
Death2Evil 5 days ago
This is a sad decision by our political pundits. This decision has has opened a door that should stay shut! Now we will have Men! dressing as women using our public restrooms. Exposing themselves to women and children, and possible rape. Anything goes now, nothing surprises me anymore. The Sickness of our society has gone over board. Exposes alot about our medical field and how wrong they are to say these people are normal.
gpumpkin626 3 years ago
It says all men are created equal, not all men are created women.
As for the USA love it or leave it remark -- why so militant?
doesitmattertoday 3 years ago
I live in Montgomery County, MD and I 100% support the transgender law.
The US Constitution states:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
So, if you deny any group rights, you are not only a bigot but unconstitutional. Stop trying to mix religion and politics! This is the USA, like it or leave!
dr2746a 3 years ago
These sort of laws open the door for all kinds of weirdos to claim discrimination. What about people who believe they are cats trapped in human form? Should businesses and govt offices should be forced by law to put litterboxes in all restrooms for catpeople to feel comfortable? A law stating catpeople can't be turned down for employment on the basis of "species self-identification"? In the workplace catpeople should be guaranteed by law a quiet area where they can lick themselves clean?
unusualartvideos 3 years ago
It's been more than ten years since I have visited a mall, airport or modern public facility that has not had one or more private use restrooms. The blue and white international symbol over the door shows that it is for use by varied genders. If anything, this is the sort of bathroom that should be promoted for transgender, etc. use. Hello, it's just common sense.
tripodsally 4 years ago
Good intentions perhaps, but this law was rewritten to address problems of a select few and there's nothing to prevent a Joe or Jane Pervert from dressing in a gender d'jour to visit their chosen restroom. You can argue that molesters would be subject to prosecution, but why would you want to even expose anyone (especially children) to the increased risk?
prettyproust 4 years ago
As if such criminals have been waiting around for the cover of law!
forever2btold 4 years ago
Hmm, seems Ms. Beyer is a little touchy about this subject, perhaps this is a personal issue for (him/her?). Seems like harassment to me. If you accuse people of illegal actions when you know that to be untrue, you are deliberately trying to intimidate them, and yes, that's harassment.
tripodsally 4 years ago
Of course you do'nt see it because as a good little liberal harrasement only occurs when you guys do petitions. Ohh and by the way as far as Human Rights Campaign, GLAAD, PFLAG, GLSEN, getting paid by tax payers they do, only the money comes under the guise of health subsidies for HIV Out reaches like the Gay Men's Health Crisis in NYC, and the many Gay Centers that pop up in every state. It is true that members support them but they get a cut from Uncle Sam every year!
exgaybloggers 4 years ago
I don't get it. What's the harassment? She seemed very polite to me.
DrewCourtney 4 years ago
Hmm, she tells them they will have to leave and anything they are doing will not count - nah, she's just being a nice helpful lady....NOT! Open your eyes.
AmericanMale1st 4 years ago 2
She/He is lying to them and attempting to trick them from exercising their rights as merican citizens. It just goes to show that people like her/him demand that normal people not only tolerate them, but accept them as normal, while at the same time refusng to acknowledge that we have a right to speak the truth and to help others to see the truth.
catholicmilitant 4 years ago
Go Dr. Beyer! Standing up for a voiceless people with a horrendous rate of death at the hands of bigots!
cailleanmc 4 years ago
"At the hands of bigots?" Just inflammatory and totally ignorant statement.
per619 4 years ago
Every ten minutes a child is born, 1/2500, in which the doctor cannot determine the sex, or gender. These children are Intersex; they are born into a life of not male or female. Likewise in similar fashion the Transsexual is identified with a Bioneurological congenital condition they too are locked into something not quite so clearly defined as male, or female.
stellewriter 4 years ago 2
Genital deformity is not the same as having an inter-sex chromosome--which does not exist? "The Boy Who was Raised as a Girl" shows how compelling chromosomes are regardless of physccal appearance. Agreed, mental state is much more arguable but GID is classified as a treatable disorder.
per619 4 years ago
I was referring not to genitals specifically, but other bio and endocrine anomaly.
stellewriter 4 years ago
I was not referring to genitals specificaly, rather other bio and endocrine anomaly.
stellewriter 4 years ago
The best Transsexuals and Intersex can do is live as close to what we seem to believe we are. That may preclude the wants, and often ignorant and bigoted beliefs of others. In what case do we ignore this issue and abandon the children who now cannot hide?
stellewriter 4 years ago
How can anyone continue in hate and prejudice so as to deny simple equality and justice? It is either time for change and understanding, or simply wheedle out the transgender element as inhuman and adopt the final solution as Hitler visualized? Not an easy thing to resolve, but one that is present and will not go away.
stellewriter 4 years ago
Taking a stand against a bunch of hatemongering, bigoted bullies determined to marginalize and vilify people who's only crime is being different does not qualify as intolerance or in itself bullying. It never has. Though it's easy to see how you'd say that because people who don't resist are easier to bulldoze. I don't know what is more repugnant - the ignorance of the "moral" or the way bullies always say they are the victims.
vaasnaad 4 years ago
I'd like to see the whole video so that I can judge the context for myself before making any comment either way.
oopster74 4 years ago
I tried to send two web address which support what I have written here and much more. But for some reason they won't post.
stormismissy 4 years ago
obviously someone has blocked me from making any but the most innocuous statements here. I can't even post web sites which support what I have written.
stormismissy 4 years ago
Has youtube stopped receiving comments about this or is it just me?
stormismissy 4 years ago
Are comments to this site now blocked or is it just me?
stormismissy 4 years ago
Still waiting for you to answer why your creater, if it was meant to be give us both body parts and a different phys and psycological structure so we can choose what we want to be. I have given you more than a week. Where is your answer? I get a thumbs down from someone, but of course, no answer as to why!!
jpppen 4 years ago
So, if a guy goes into a ladies rest room, and he thinks of himself as a woman, dresses like a woman, and acts like a woman, goes into a booth and shuts the door where he can't see out and nobody can see in except for feet - how does that hurt anyone or traumatize children? How does anyone even know about it?
If ANYBODY goes into a rest room and starts to sexually molest anyone else, that's illegal and would continue to be so, right?
So, what's the problem?
wmlbrown 4 years ago 3
Yeah! What are people thinking is going on in ladies rooms anyway? Seems a bit hysterical raving to me.
I don't see any slippery slope here. Even in an anonymous space like this no one is getting very detailed about what injury is suffered by these children. In contrast, repealling the law would cause well-known injury to the TG community.
Perhaps, seeing this, they passed the law in the first place.
MsTyrie 4 years ago
Per619,
How did Rickman just happen to be at that club hanging around the lobby on the day of the incident when her club is in Bethesda? How did she just happen to have a prepared statement for the press when they showed up? How did the alleged transgender person manage to slip away without anyone stoping that person. The management has said that they were notified that something was happening but the person disappeared before they could do anything.
stormismissy 4 years ago
Ok, I have had it with these lies being repeated. I was NOT, repeat NOT at Rio Sport and Health the day some guy walked into the ladies room. The media was called by the lady who was present in the ladies room (Mary Ann Andre) the evening it happened. We got another call from a different lady telling us about it. We called the media. We found out the media was running a story the NEXT day, and of course went over to the club because we wanted them to talk about the petition drive.
mdcrg 4 years ago
Since I was not there, I can substantiate your claim. However, it has been reported that club personnel identified Theresa Rickman as the activist who was in the lobby when the event happened. That has been reported in several web areas with the name of the club personnel who reported you present.
stormismissy 4 years ago
This is Theresa and I was not there the day it happened. That rumour was started by Jim Kennedy of teach the facts, who was not there the day it happened. I was there the day after it happened, again, because we had gotten a call back from the robo calls indicating that a man had gone in the ladies room. the day before. Or you can call the gym and ask them. But please stop repeating information which is incorrect.
mdcrg 4 years ago
Per619,
You are intent about holding Dana Beyers feet over the fire in regards to the supermarket incident, but why aren't you intent on holding Theresa Rickman or Mary Ann Ondray (Andree) feet over the fire for the staged incident at the Rio Sports and Health Club. Yes it was a staged incident and Rickman is a member of CRG MD and likely Andree too.
stormismissy 4 years ago
Per619
Before you label someone "mentally ill" because they present facts and ask questions you should do a little reading of your own diatribes. You write from emotion not intelligence and knowledge. As the fictional character Jack Webb use to say "Just the facts.".
stormismissy 4 years ago
Actually, just the opposite. It is obvious you have no knowledge of the DSM IV TR at 302.85. You just make it up as you go along and infer everyone else ignorant. Maybe some are but they still have common sense. And at least they are neither self-deceived or liars.
per619 4 years ago
Is there anyone posting here who was actually at this incident and can write about it objectively? So far all everyone here (myself included) has written about is their response to this short, one-sided clip which is all MD CRG wants us to see. Has anyone seen the one-sided channel 7 pro-CRG clip on this incident? Or even read any of the contoversy about this incident on other web sites? Has anyone even spoken to Ms Beyer or the assemblywoman she works for to hear the other side of this story?
stormismissy 4 years ago
Can the MD CRG please post the rest of this clip. The part that begins with a man saying "Oh, by the way..."? And can someone please explain when someone speaks what they know to be true is a "lie" and how anyone with commonsense can construe this as harassment?
stormismissy 4 years ago
It is unfortunate that transgenderism is thought to be a type of lifestyle rather than a true mismatch of biological and mental gender identity. What is even weirder is the perception that men adopting the appearance and behavior of ordinary women is thought to be perverse. Is that some sort of misogyny? Are people upset about women appearing as men? I don't think so.
It certainly is a condition and can 'happen' to any loved one. Compassion is called for, not condemnation.
MsTyrie 4 years ago 2
You are right. Compassion is called for...not militant legislation classifying a mental disorder as a civil right.
Whether or not travestitism and related conditions are perverse is not the point. The fact the the behavior is both abnormal and aberrant is a fact.
Pedophilia is also a disorder and they claim they are also born that way--should we also legislate that they have a civil right to have sex with minors?
per619 4 years ago
I gather that, by comparing it to pedophilia, you think transgenderism is associated with criminal behavior. Perhaps that is a common misperception and explains why some people are down on trannies. What kind of crimes are we talking about here? Using public restrooms?
MsTyrie 4 years ago
Teaching that it is ok for young kids to dress and act against their sex. Being female or male is more than physical, but a mental issue. If parents raised their kids right, this whole thing would never be a isssue. The other thing, is trying to get tax payers to pay for their lifestyle and changing the fabric of society to accomidate them.
jpppen 4 years ago
I am not aware of a single taxpayer expense that is expressly for transgendered individuals. Do tell, I am curious.
The fabric of society accommodates quite a lot of exceptions to the 'norm' and benefits enormously from doing so. The Americans With Disabilities Act comes to mind. Perhaps that law is disagreeable to you as well. Just hope that you do not beome disabled.
MsTyrie 4 years ago
Whoever said tax money goes to transgendered is absolutely retarded. No money goes to the transgendered. None. But then, a lot of tax money goes to churches by means of tax exempt status. The very same churches that oppress and spread bigotry against lesbian, gay, and transgendered people.
hodyx999 4 years ago
How much in taxes does Human Rights Campaign, GLAAD, GLAD, PFLAG, ACLU, GLSEN, Equality Maryland, Gay Task Force, ACT-UP, etc. etc. pay? The answer is zero. They are all nonprofits like churches.
On the other hand, churches build schools, run day care centers, provide humantarian relief of all types, run shelters for homeless and abused women, and so on.
LGBT organizations do one thing and one thing only: promote LGBT interests.
So who is more deserving of the nonprofit tax status?
per619 4 years ago
you also forgot that the LGBT organizations promote child pedophiliac organizations like NAMBLA to also have a voice.
We need to save our communities, our nation and our children from these sodomites!
otherwise we fail as a nation and then enter national captivity like ancient israel
PzCzGz 4 years ago
I gather that you want to play word games rather than answer the question. Transgenderism and pedophilia are both mental disorders. Both groups try to justify rights to the aberrant behavior by claiming they were born that way--an irrelevant argument.
per619 4 years ago
I don't seek to play word games. Nor do I recall you presenting a question. What was your question?
In regards to GID and pedophilia both being mental disorders,just because they are listed in the same manual does not mean there is a correlation between the two. The only association they share is that the APA lists both as disorders. How can you related violence towards children with GID?
...to be continued
stormismissy 4 years ago
Being mentally ill does not generate a right that infringes upon everyone elses rights.
Likewise, claiming rights as amelioration for self-programed minority victim status.
Demand elevators have windows for claustrophobics. Demand elevators never have glass for acrophobics?
And BTW, there is a high correlation between various sexual disorders which is why they are not just in the same manual but same category of psychopathology.
per619 4 years ago
whooo boy! that last statement of yours on the DSM is a doozy! Since when does the right to the same civil rights as other citizens infringe on the rights of others.
As for the correlation between the various "sexual" disorders, is that they are sexual. Pedophilia is a sexual disorder and GID is thought to be sexual so they are lumped in the same category. Any other correlation is pure speculation. Now will you tell me you know different because you work in the psychology field?
stormismissy 4 years ago
Correct.
per619 4 years ago
First off, read the DSM-4 to find out what it really say about the issue. Don't take someone else's word on it. Secondly if you can't understand it, ask an expert who deals with transgender folks.
Pedophilia is more than a disorder, it is a crime. It victimizes children. Truely dispicable!
Just because two things are listed together in a book doesn't mean that they are related or should even be considered in the same manner.
stormismissy 4 years ago
The fact is, either you are pretending to have read DSM but ignorant and relying upon what someone else has told you is in it OR totalling distorting the DSM IV.
per619 4 years ago
Ms Tyrie,
One can tell by the anti-transgender comments here that the vast majority of these commenters have no idea what they are speaking out against. The ignorance of the subject speaks volumes (or is it volumns?) However, if just one person's mind can be opened in regards to the subject, it's worth it to counter their bigoted misconceptions.
stormismissy 4 years ago 2
I am reminded of the old adage: "Sunlight is the best disinfectant". Shine on, girl!
MsTyrie 4 years ago
And I am reminded of one of the key foundations of propaganda:
"The propagandists will not accuse the enemy of just any misdeed; he will accuse him of the very intention he himself has." Jacques Ellul, Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Minds.
Of course it's everyone else who is hateful, bigoted, and ignorant that you must educate.
per619 4 years ago
per619,
No one said or intimidated that everyone else is hateful, bigoted and ignorant. Heaven knows I've proved my ignorance on one thing here. However, the issue here isn't just about the "bathroom" issue, it's about denying equality in life under the law to an entire group of people if the law is repealed on referendum. The "bathroom" issue could be resolved by making an amendment to the law exempting certain facilities like lockerroom and certain organizations like religious ones.
stormismissy 4 years ago
"CRG's campaign is built on outright lies, deceit and misinformation...their bigotry."
"One can tell by the anti-transgender comments...The ignorance of the subject speaks volumes (or is it volumns?)"
In yr own words, those who disagree are liars, ignorant, 'anti-trans', and/or bigots.
The public accomadation issue "is" the issue. Everyone else has rights too.
per619 4 years ago
The public accommodation issue was explained. The CRG didn't like the answer. So their answer is to attempt to repeal the bill. So the issue now is the denial of equal civil rights to transgender folks. If it is all about the public accommodation issue why doesn't CRG work to get that section amended or repealed instead of the entire bill? Why are they intent on destroying a bill to guarantee equal civil rights to transgender folks
stormismissy 4 years ago
These people are sick. Ever notice they always bring up pedophila? It's always the fundies pushing it because it's always on their minds as their priests fondle some kid in the backroom.
hodyx999 4 years ago
When a man dresses like a women, IT has problems!!
jpppen 4 years ago
jppen, this statement tells us much about you. I speaks of your intolerance, hatred and bigotry of and towards transgender people. By your own use of the word "it" you show that you don't even believe trangender folks are human. It's sad when someone has so little, if any, regard for human life.
stormismissy 4 years ago
I have hate for people that defey what their creater gave them. Your just pissed because there are people out there that do not have the "anything goes" attitude. I suppose next if a person wants to have sex with animals, you would support that. People can do what they want with their own bodies. But as a tax payer, I will not support transgender bathrooms, any such law supporting that lifestyle and the teaching of that corruption to young children.
jpppen 4 years ago
jppen,
"..defy what their creator gave them."? How can you be so very sure that the creator didn't allow this to happen, for people to be born with gid as well as being born hermaphrodites, pseudo-hermaphrodites or with Klinefelter's or Turner's or other chromosomal and mental syndromes related to physical sex and gender.
To which lifestyle are you referring? I don'tknow a gay man, lesbian or transgender person who lives a lifestyle which is different from the average citizen.
stormismissy 4 years ago
jppen,
"..defy what their creator gave them."? How can you be so very sure that the creator didn't allow this to happen, for people to be born with gid as well as being born hermaphrodites, pseudo-hermaphrodites or with Klinefelter's or Turner's or other chromosomal and mental syndromes related to physical sex and gender.
To which lifestyle are you referring? I don'tknow a gay man, lesbian or transgender person who lives a lifestyle which is different from the average citizen.
stormismissy 4 years ago
Ok. Tell me. If we were meant to be whatever we wanted, why do we not have both body parts so we can choose what we want to be?? Or is your creater a bigot and a hater and not diverse enough?
jpppen 4 years ago
jppen,
To which lifestyle are you referring? I don't know a gay male, lesbian, bisexual or transgender person who lives a lifestyle different from the average citizen. If you are referring to the stereotypical "licentious" lifestyle some attribute to these folks,then I suggest you take a visit to one of the "Spring Break" events or to your local nightclubs or check out the local swingers scene. It's a small group of heteros and gays not the majority who practice a licentious lifestyle.
stormismissy 4 years ago
This is another example of prefered speech and prefferd special interest groups using the State to dictate social mores.Thanks to PFOX and Citizens for Responsible Government for fighting back! You guys won and that is why they hate you!
exgaybloggers 4 years ago
Wrong! This is nothing about prefered speech or Prefered special interests groups using the state to dictate social mores. It's about respect for all humans and equal civil rights under the law. CRG hasn't won anything and when the truth wills out they will have egg all over their faces. I don't hate the CRG folks. I just don't understand why they want to deny equal rights to a home, a job, a life without fear and respect to other human beings.
stormismissy 4 years ago
What is our nation coming to? Berkeley disrespected our Marines, Montgomery County, Md wanting unisex showers, and a president who refuses to protect our borders! This is lunacy. It is nice to see Maryland Citizens for a Responsible Government taking a stand for sanity. Go guys!!!
raccoonbrat 4 years ago
In one respect, you are correct. With all the bigger problems in this country this entire matter doesn't even amount to a spit in the ocean. Instead of trying to work to resolve the war, poverty, terrorism and other larger problems, these folks in Montgomery County are worried about who's using the stall next to them in the bathroom. Don't worry, they are probably having the same bodily functions as you are. Then they are just interested in getting cleaned up and out of there.
stormismissy 4 years ago
Back in the 70's I visited communes that had group nudity as well as using the same toilets. That is okay if that is what you want. It is immoral to force it on other people's children. Those folks in Montgomery County are 110% right to be concerned as they are responsibile for determining what their minor children are exposed to. Those parents are being terrorised by idiots who are trying to force their morals or lack thereof on their children.
raccoonbrat 4 years ago
I agree. There are several videos showing the gay and trans community teaching young children, against the parents wishes that it is ok to be weird. Why do they do that? Simple, to corrupt the minds of children so when they grow up they will vote for the sickos cause!!
jpppen 4 years ago
jppen,
Teaching children about diversity is not wrong. Nature is by it's very existence diverse and so is human nature. Teaching children tolerance and love of others no matter how different they are is the right thing to do. Teaching children that all human beings are deserving of the same divine given rights to life, liberty and happiness is not subversive teachings. Parents should be teaching these things at home.
stormismissy 4 years ago
jppen,
Thank you for you misconceptions and ideas. You are entitled to them.
So promoting diversity and equal right for all citizens is a "sicko cause" and corrupts children. Your agenda is quite clear, it's okay to teach children that they should discriminate against others just because they are different and don't fit your vision of how things should be. The words you use here inflame bigotry, hatred which can lead to violence against others. Is this what you would teach children?
stormismissy 4 years ago
Well I would teach morals. I would teach what my creator gave me and why. I would teach why it is wrong to defy what we are. I suppose you would want murders and rapist to have these same rights because they are different, they are born that way, and they are just expressing themselves. If you do not accept that, YOU are a bigot and hater!!
jpppen 4 years ago
Since you admit there are much bigger problems in this country, then why is imposing transsexuality and trangenderism on others--both classified as mental disorders--your #1 priority?
per619 4 years ago
No one is imposing transsexuality and trangenderism on others. No one is being told they have to crossdress or have SRS. The issue is equal treatment under the law, another prority for this country.
AS for being classified as mental disorders, have you even read the DSM-4. If you did, you would find that they are not mental disorders, but being the subject of ridicule, scorn, abandonment, hatred and violence leads to other problems which can lead to mental conditions.
stormismissy 4 years ago
A transexual activist marches over to a group of conservatives and says "Any petitions gatherd are illegal and you are being asked to leave!!!! Only a liberal could not see any intimidation here. This was nothing more than the left bullying people they disagree with! The left has a history of video taping conservatives also
and now that we are doing it to them it's out of context...baloney!! The petition was to keep men dresses as womn out of female bathrooms!
Good job guys
exgaybloggers 4 years ago
An activist informs a group that they are violating the law and the group sees that as harassment. Hmmm, on a larger scale does anyone not see that CRG is harrassing transgender people in general and endangering their lives and livelihood by denying them equality. The bathroom issues is a smokescreen. The CRG's real purpose is to deny equality to transgender people, deny them jobs and homes so the CRG folks can practice their brand of hatred and bigoty against the transgendered
stormismissy 4 years ago
Transgendered or whatever they are have problems. The american people do not want to pay for people who are confussed on what they are. If these weirdos want rights, form their own groups and have these sick people pay for each other!
jpppen 4 years ago
jppen,
Transgender folks are not confused,weirdos or sick people. They are just plain folks trying to make a living and enjoy life. The problems they have are folks like yourself who want to deny them their divine-given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Denying folks respect, courtesy, and equality under the law is discrimination. Bigots who discriminate agains others are the ones with problems.
stormismissy 4 years ago 2
Except that they were not violating any law. Another lie...this time by you. Deny equality? For what. Your vitriol is typical of the many hatemongers in the LGBT community who project their own hatred onto others. You comments suggest you are mentally ill.
per619 4 years ago
Per619,
that's what I'm trying to find out. Was there an e-mail sent out or not. CRG says no, Dana Beyer says yes. Another "he said,she said" scenerio. If such an e-mail existed has it a copy of it been presented as evidence.
As for hatred, I have none. I don't hate the CRG. I just can't understand why they are trying to repeal the entire law and deny equality to transgender folks. An attempt to change the law, I can understand but not full repeal.
stormismissy 4 years ago
Fair enough but one cannot prove there was not an email. Since Beyer claims and email, then Beyer should have it. 2nd, Clipboarders could be asked to leave private property, another Beyer claim totally unsubstantiated, but even that would not make the signatures illegal...another Beyer claim which is just false on its face.
Lastly, Beyer claimed the petition drive had been shut down at many stores, totally unsubstantiated by any other source.
per619 4 years ago
per619
I concede that Ms. Beyer's claim that the signatures would be illegal or disallowed is totally false. I don't see how they could be illegal. In regards to the clipboarders being asked to leave private property she obviously had been led to believe that would be the case. Or as you suggest she made it up. But since no one has asked her about it and she has not explained, make what you will of it. If no one asked them to leave, her statement was proven false. Can't argue with that.
stormismissy 4 years ago
What is interesting is what was cut out of this clip. What happened when this person left the petition gathers that the CRG did not show in the clip. This clip shows no harrassment, it's merely informing folks that they may be in the wrong. As for the CRG, who can believe in a group that staged a cross-dressed male in a women's lockerroom incident so that they could express "righteous" indignation? Hopefully, the press will expose the CRG's duplicity and conspiry.
stormismissy 4 years ago
Duplicity and conspiracy? The statement made by Dana Beyer was an outright lie by an elected official and representative of Hillary.
per619 4 years ago
The statement made by Dana Beyer, an elected official and representative of Hillary was an outright lie.
per619 4 years ago
First off Dana Beyer is an aide to an elected official not an elected official. Yes, she does serve on a steering committee for H. Clinton. As for lying, I don't know that Ms. Beyer was lying or not. What I do know is that the CRG's campaign is built on outright lies, deceit and misinformation. They have never done anything but try to get this legislation defeated because of their bigotry.
Also, I noticed that neither responder refuted what I wrote nor even tried to do so.
stormismissy 4 years ago
What's to respond to? You just classify anything you don't want to believe is a lie. Facts don't matter...you just spew allegations against CRG and hurl stupid insults because you have nothing else to offer.
per619 4 years ago
Facts, to which facts are you referring. As far as I am concerned, neither side has presented any facts to support what happened in this incident. Do some research into the alleged locker room incident the CRG uses to push their agenda. The woman in the locker room is a member of CRG, this was not the gym she goes to, the "man" who entered the locker room was a member of the club involved but never identified, incident happened when there was only one woman in the locker room. All coincidences?
stormismissy 4 years ago
Montgomery County, Maryland, has broken biological barriers that separate male and female facilities. No longer will women and girls be able to feel safe in bathrooms, locker rooms, public pools, malls, stores, health clubs, restaurants and other public place, since Bill 23-07 was signed into law. It would allow males claiming to feel female to share all these facilities. Maryland Citizens filed a referendum to prevent it, and had to gather signatures on petitions to place before the voters.
jcrc123 4 years ago
Thirteen states and over 90 communities across the U.S. representing a good 2/3rds of the population have similar laws. Some of these date back to the 70s. There has never been an issue involving the use of bathrooms. The one incident that is recorded happened in Montgomery County recently. An incident instigated and carried out by members of CRG. The truth will eventually come out. Hopefully before the CRG can do more damage.
stormismissy 4 years ago
I agree with you. Men will also not feel safe with women dressed like men in public bathrooms. The people that have morals that want to fight this are called bigots and haters. The human race is the only being that goes against its own nature. These people exsists because parents simply, fail to be parents.
jpppen 4 years ago
jppen,
To what morals are you referring? Moral people don't deny equal rights to others just because they don't like them or the way they present themselves in public. That's what will happen if this reaches the voting stage and the referrendum is passed. As for going against nature, many things happen inutero that are unexplained and it is all part of nature. To blame it on parents is too simplistic. Do you believe that born hermaphrodites and pseudo-hermaphrodites go against nature?
stormismissy 4 years ago
Can somone explain what the petition was referring to ?? I missed the last few seconds of the clip on the news...
wayyonder 4 years ago
this video is on the news
CBearsfreak11 4 years ago