GOD HAS SPOKEN AGAIN, JUST LIKE WHEN JESUS AND MOHAMMED RECEIVED A MESSAGE FROM GOD, NOW A HUMBLE MAN HAS AGAIN BEEN PREPARED TO DELIVER A GREAT MESSAGE, FOR IT IS GREATLY NEEDED.
A NEW YOUTUBE VIDEO CALLED "The Two Big Lies In The New Testament". blows the "virgin birth" of Jesus out of the water, and... uncoveres a major corruption in the NT.
The non-Christian debater is an idiot. Why are so many gospels, epistles, & prophetic letters preserved? Because it's copied every decade for each century between then & now.
So we have proof of Josephus in Palestine writing literary things & many examples of non-literary things written in Greek from that time frame.
Do you know how many non-literary things were lost due to never being copied?
Do you know how much was lost in wars & burning of buildings?
Notice how Ehrman said we have no evidence in the ancient world how people used secertaries. Yet he states Jospehus who was a 1st century historian needed help when writing in greek, because his greek was not good. We have jospehus letters in greek, showing a secerrary. Richard Bauckham Phd Cambridge used papias who stated mark was peters interpreter and exposition. Papias was an ancient writer, so this again shows interpreters.
if you actually look into ancient history, sumeria, inca, india you will find Gods in the plural. The bible has ben convoulted...but if you seek you will find truth. After 25 years of research and study I have to admit the bible being convoluted makes it that much more fun and interesting to decipher. It is a game a game of hide and seek.
Matthew 7:7Ask, and you will receive; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you. The truth is in the bible, mixed with deception.
@JamesCGI just by you stating that you may have no idea what I'm arguing. I'm referring to classical logic and accounting for why we should be logical, not the mere fact that logic is useful to us. So sorry, but I have no idea why you brought up your statement to my statement about God.
What is WRONG with the stupid christians ? are they really just plain STUPID or do they think it is a game they must win ?
The BIBLE is FAKE and FAKE and FAKE ...Dr Ehrman is not the first scholar to say it nor will he be the last one ..you christians can't hide the truth any more..your fake religion is EXPOSED ..idiots .
@abooreen The only religion that is exposed is muhammads islam and his forged quran.
The only holy book on the planet that contains over a hundred fulfilled prophecies is the holy Bible and God has preserved those prophecies. Ur quran is a load of incoherent plagiarized nonsense
THis is all christians are good at " bitch " , when ur faith is exposed you attack islam immediately ..how the fuck do you know m a muslim ...did fox news tell you ..well guess what bitch , i am a fucking atheist and ur christianity stinks , its a fucking lie..a real big lie..u think some preacher will tell u the truth when they feed off this lie ..it is a multi billion dollar a year business.....keep up the donations boy n jesus might jus save u ..idiots
@abooreen - What is sad is.... Since modern Christians have asserted, with such great fever, that Christ does in fact exist.
Even with the evidence (if they allow themselves to read it), will not and can not face the fact. That being, they have been kidding themselves all these years. And, knowing it. Having the faith that god will eventually reveal its self to them.
@Rocketryman, What think you of 2 witnesses called an olive tree (Jews) & lamp stand (church - Christians) likely being killed by a third group in Jerusalem who will rejoice after killing them just as they did the day of 9-11, but this time the whole world will send gifts to every where else in the whole world within 3-1/2 days & watch it together on the internet & T.V., I presume.
Do you think it's impossible for Muslims to kill in Jerusalem?
@abooreen - What is sad is.... Since modern Christians have asserted, with such great fever, that Christ does in fact exist.
Even with the evidence (if they allow themselves to read it), will not and can not face the fact. That being, they have been kidding themselves all these years. And, knowing it. Having the faith that god will eventually reveal its self to them.
@abooreen, What is wrong is that Islam begins with the premise that Yahweh can't preserve words because He is too weak & so Allah must stoop to a pedophile to write a Quran that contains abrogation against itself because it must be about hate because Muhammed must please the Sabeans in Ethiopia & take away the praise to Jews & Christians, but not the Sabeans.
The Sabeans are assholes according to Job 1:15 & so is the pedophile Muhammed. The Quran with hate for God's people also sucks.
WHY ARE YOU attacking islam now , jus so u know i am no muslim ...but christianity and your astroid pilot are fake..really fake, i know it hurts, i am sure it hurts to find out the whole thing is a lie ..just be a man and take it..stop being a pussy..the bible is a corrupt book, many,many,many religious and non religious figures fucked with it and altered its contents..if you don't like it then too bad ..keep worshiping and donating ... llol idiots
U are so correct. It is one of the biggest deceptions ever devised, & it actually started with Judaism. Any decent degree of study via the Ugaritic Texts will allow the reader to see that early Judaism was polytheistic! It was rewritten by the Hebrew priests around the 7th century. This is when Yahweh was actually adopted & used to replace the gods the Jews had been worshiping. This has been found in the dead Sea Scrolls, not just the Ugaritic Texts.It was the birth of monotheism & lies
@solaphyde ..."the true and genuine reading has been corrupted by ignorant scribes, which we see happen every day, or altered by scribes who are half-taught and half-asleep." All these manuscripts were COPIES.
@ilikemike2436 Ehrman can't prove the reading was corrupted, he only asserts it based on a few variants. And that's an entirely different thing than saying the "meaning" has been corrupted. His arguments for variants causing different types of theology is easily refuted, hence he uses the comma johanneum as part of his argument, which is ridiculous.
@solaphyde Since the only way to salvation, according to you, is through Jesus; what are Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist and Sikhs to do? No salvation for them right? Sounds like you have a lot of converting to do?
Which version of the bible will your God be referring to on the Judgement Day? What will your God do with The Qua ran, The book of Mormon, The Gita, The New World Translation, etc?
@ilikemike2436 God ultimately converts people. His people just share the gospel which God uses to convert them. Jesus can save anyone at anytime. Jesus said he was the truth, and John 1:1 explains how only God can account for truth, thus anything belief contrary to the truth is by definition a lie.
The Quran came 600 years later. The book of Mormon came 1800 years later. The WTS contradicts the Bible. Only the Bible gives the Trinity, so that one wins.
@solaphyde You don't know the mind or intentions of God and if you think you do based on the bible, then you know even less. Unless you can produce the original words of scripture, and you can't, you lose. There is no doubt about that. You can keep parroting and believing in someone elses platitudes until the judgement day and it all amounts to less than zero because you, nor your master Mike Brown has the original writings.
@ilikemike2436 Your standard, along with Ehrman's, for having to have the originals (which we wouldn't even know they were original if we had them) is clearly hyper-skepticism, and takes us back into the dark ages when it comes to trusting any ancient texts. You're fulfilling Rom 1:18-20 though with that silly behavior.
@solaphyde That is the summit you can't scale, the fact that you can't accept. You are being willfully ignorant. How does it feel to be so weak-minded, inept and mislead? The only thing worse than your argument is you and you misleading others.
@solaphyde If God is not responsible for any of these bibles what makes you so certain that he inspired them? It would have been no more difficult for God to preserve the original writings than it was for him to inspire them in the first place. If God didn't preserve the original words then he didn't inspire them either.
God is under no obligation to judge humanity based on books created by human beings.
@ilikemike2436 No, I believe "reem" can mean a one horned animal, but the specific animal it's referring to is probably unknown. Again, not paying attention.
Read Michael Brown's book on answering Jewish objections (the one about NT objections). He answers the issue about Jeconiah. Again, I wont spoon feed you, just because you're lazy.
@ilikemike2436 Rom 3-5 is the most didactic in all of Scripture about justification. Rom 3:19-21 necessarily implies we're justified apart from the moral law. You don't get to trump quote other passages, otherwise you'd be inconsistent in how you read other literature, if you only read the bible this way. Many passages are "descriptive" of salvation. Rom 2:6,13 in context are showing how one demonstrates justification.
You've heard of an applaud of fools. I now think there is what's called "a youtube thumbs up of fools". It blows my mind how people can blindly assume that Ehrman is somehow "neutral" or an unbiased historian when it comes to the NT text. He does debates about theology and writes books about theology. He's influenced by his own theological predispositions. He's not magically "neutral" like every one dreams of.
@mythicalhell Don't be fooled with his cute one liners. Erhman does have an axe to grind, he just does so under the cloak of "naturlistic" historiagraphy. He chooses to interpret history through a naturalistic lens, as opposed to one where God is sovereign over history. He does history almost at times in an anti-theology way. Read the titles of many of his books as proof. :)
@solaphyde you said, "He chooses to interpret history through a naturalistic lens, as opposed to one where God is sovereign over history." What??!! Are you saying he should be putting on glasses which see your God as sovereign? You kidding, right? That's like me saying Apologist WLC has an axe to grind and does so through a theistic lens, as opposed to one where God is nothing more than a claim. In other words Bard Erhman, an agnostic, should NOT see your God as sovereign.
@mythicalhell God being sovereign over history is exactly right. You're an unbeliever and so is Ehrman so I don't expect you to agree. It's a fulfillment of Scripture that you don't agree, Rom 1:18-20. Jesus being the promised Messiah, dying, rising, and Christianity spreading the way it did is better accounted for by God's sovereignty, not naturalism. If naturalism were correct, Christianity would have never spread in the first place. No one would have cared about a crucifixion.
@solaphyde You clearly are a SIMPLETON if you make extraordinary claims without providing a stitch of empirical evidence to support your claims. I could say the exactly things you do but replace your god with santa clause or Allah or Budha(sp) etc. You are only stating your "OPINION" in these comments. People like you aren't worth wasting time with. Show some evidence supporting your claims or we're done.
@mythicalhell No, you're being a simpleton assuming I'm a simpleton. The fact that you're a moral creature and use the laws of logic is an extraordinary thing. You're proof of God everytime you reply on here and agree that murder is really always wrong. Allah and Santa aren't said to be eternal, those fail to 1. compare to God as defined in the Bible, and 2. can't account for real morality. Nice try. Evidence doesn't account for itself.
An explosive YouTube video has just been posted called "The New Testament On Trial - 2012" After watching this short video, I will no longer trust anything written in the New Testament again. Christianity ppears to have been based on a lies from the NT, which is now proven to be contridictory to the Old Testament..
@mythicalhell Write this down, "consistency is a sign of truth". Ehrman is being inconsistent when he only tries to "pick on" the Bible, because to be consistent he'd have to make the same arguments about the Quran and every writing from antiquity. Does he do so? Gee, not at all. Hmmm. I wonder why? Could it be a fulfillment of Rom 1:18-20? Sure!
@solaphyde When asked why he doesn't "pick on the quran" Erhman said and I quote, "because I value my life too much." Do some research on Dr. Erhman instead of making unfounded attacks on him.
@arcz10 Faith is a vice not a virtue. Deep down you know that I'm right. For example: Who's the smarter person in this situation? A preacher says to 2 people, hey, guys, put your skates on and come out onto the ice with me. One person ignores a sign that says "thin ice" and goes out to meet the preacher on the ice, he goes out by "faith". The other guy refuses to go out until they get "evidence" from the local fire department that the ice is safe to skate on. Who's wiser of the two guys?
At 1:00 (hr) into the program, where they discuss the Marcionites, Darell should just say they either were confused, inconsistent, or trying to be deceptive with Paul's writings. ie. in terms of the "letter killing yet the Spirit giving life", Paul also writes in Rom 7 that the law is good and true, thus kills by finding evil in us.
On the flip side, it's far-fetched for Ehrman to act like the Marcianites could naturally come to their conclusions of Paul w/ a cursory reading.
Theology is not history, that is a distinction that must be made. Mr. Bock makes many points which make me doubt Ehrman, but in the last third of this show he seems to be using Theology instead of History, letting Faith get in the way.
Each of the 'One True Faiths' (a miracle! each is the only true one, yet there are three!) must be layed open to Critical Scholarship, this would be very healthy for democracy and keep the minds of future generations sane and open.
I found it interesting that Erhman when you look it up is a Jewish German name, Did Judas Iscariot have any offspring for this man to come down from. He seems like the familiar description of Judas in the Bible. I know that Islam is using his discredition information to promote the Koran. He must be getting high royalties from them on the side. Very suspicious man, devil has a way of picking them.
@TheLionessjudah ah ha found you here. so you're an anti Anti-Semite too, huh. Since you've taken the time to research Ehrman maybe you know that he was raised an Evangelical Christian, as I assume you are.
@ilikemike2436 Raised, I think you may be aiming too high on the scale. Judas was a Jew, and the similarity is too close for comfort that is why the remark was made. I don't take the word of a man who sells his soul for money, maybe that is your kind, but my aim is much higher. And since you know so much about him then you must also know Islam well pads him. Evangelical christian you think? What are you?
@TheLionessjudah How the hell would you know who pays him? Are you his accountant? Who pays you to post lies about him? The KKK and The Aryan Nation?
The reason you made the comment is because, in your own ignorant, low class uninformed way, you are trying to imply that the reason he is questioning the bible is because he is really Jewish. Which makes you a liar and an anti-Semite. I bet you're a homophobe, tea bagger and birther too.
@TheLionessjudah The woman taken in adultery. This story is only found in John. Where is the man she was caught with? Both are to be stoned Leviticus 20:10.
1. Not found in the oldest and best manuscripts in the Gospel of John.
2. The writing style is different
3. If not originally part of John Should it be a part of the bible?
@ilikemike2436 You know given the content of that story, there must be a reason for the nondisclosure. One day when this earth is rolled up like a scroll as the Word says, and man's Faith has been accounted for with rewards and a crown, because we really are marching to the beat of God's drum, so to speak, all those mysteries that have been in the minds of men will be revealed. Till then, really for how long do we live, and what is the certainty. The Bible is our Survival manual to hold on to.
@TheLionessjudah Not an answer. The reason is because it's not original to the Gospel of John. Read the footnote attached to the verse in any modern bible. Does Les what's-his-name preach about that?!
You don't have a problem with the bible? So you believe in Unicorns?
@ilikemike2436 If this story did happen, the Pharisees were trying to trick Jesus, thus may have pretended to want to sleep with her themselves and then take her, kind of like a cop pretending to be a prostitute at a truck stop. Also, many scholars want to take that verse out. Many Bibles have footnotes that it's an interpolation, and probably only stays in becuase of "tradition!" Also, the Latin Vulgate, over 1,000 years prior to the KJV interpreted 'reem' as rhino, not unicorn.
@solaphyde From a narrative point of view it's incomplete. She is accused of adultery but there is no mention of the man?! A lot of ifs and speculation on your part. The only way to know for certain is to read the original writings which of course we don't have. If it was not original to the gospel then maybe it should be removed. I'm sure that would also include a lot of other passages in the bible as well.
@ilikemike2436 Speculation on my part? And you're not speculating? Nice double standard. Many scholars would have NOT problem taking it out and view the passage as a CLEAR interpolation! How does this mean I'm "speculating"? Are you nuts? If you're going to try to sound smart and quote Ehrman's "we don't know the original" polemic, then be consistent and realize that would lead us into the dark ages with our understanding of historical documents. Nice try.
@solaphyde Unicorn? Could this be an error in translation? The author meant reem or rhino but wrote unicorn instead? There are several references to unicorns in the KJV bible. Are you suggesting the authors, whoever they were, wrote about animals they didn't believe existed? If the author meant rhino then they should have written rhino. How would you know that the authors actually meant unicorn and not rhino? What about Cockatrices, Satyrs, Dragons and other mythical animals in the bible?
@ilikemike2436 The Latin mean rhino. They may have been translating thier verses from the LXX, where the Greek word might indicate an animal with one horn. 1. the original meaning of "reem" is unknown, and 2. It might have been the LXX that that guessed, but wasn't sure how to translate "reem". My point was that the Latin, which came thousands of years earlier, says "rhino". Dragons are in apocalyptical language I believe. So you know Hebrew better than the ancient translators?
@solaphyde 'May have been translating?' 'Might indicate?' 'Might have been?' 'I believe?' Speculation?? You need to read and understand your own words. Whether you like it or not; we don't have the originals unless you know where they are. Since you're such as smart ass, polemic, know-it-all why don't you produce the original manuscripts in greek and hebrew and tells us what they say. continue...
@solaphyde If you have an knowledge of textual criticism then you would know Ehrman is not the only scholar who says we don't have the original writings.
What difference does it matter whether they are Apocrypha text or not? The point was, is that mythological animals that do not exist are in the bible. Got it?!
@ilikemike2436 I'm not claiming to be a scholar. My point was that unless you know the original Hebrew meaning of "reem" you have no convincing argument.
It makes a huge difference because it uses figurative language, i.e. when Daniel translates what a dragon is it's not literally puff the magic dragon but represents kingdoms, etc.
I understand textual criticism, but what you're not understanding it Ehrman criticism. Many agree with him, but don't come to his radical conclusions
@solaphyde How in the hell do you turn your nose up at someone else's scholarly work and call it radical when you're not a scholar?! Are you a scholar groupie? The "radical" conclusion that I agree with is that there are no original writings to any parts of the bible. There are no copies of the originals. Do you disagree? If so, produce YOUR EVIDENCE. Apparently you don't know the same things I don't know. continue...
@solaphyde You would agree that there are apocryphal writings in the bible? Someone had better tell the Evangelicals because they believe it's a book of historical facts. What is your scholarly background in apocryphal writings?
You are implying that because the writing is figurative and apocryphal means the authors are writing about mythical animals because they couldn't think of a real animal so they made one up to prove their theology? And you call Ehrman radical?!
@solaphyde Hey Mr. Smart Ass, Polemic know-it-all, Since you're such a scholar groupie why don't you produce your scholarly research showing that translators of the Latin and Greek manuscripts believed that Unicorns were really rhinos.
@ilikemike2436 haha, you're mad. :D Are you reading? I said translators of the Greek probably thought that. The Latin says 'rhino', which came over a thousand years prior to the King Jimmy. You'll have to get better anti-Christ polemics now, and start all over on your quest to having supposed intellectual reasons to refute the Bible. Sorry. Does that then make you an Ehrman groupie for trying to stand on his branch?
@solaphyde Not an answer. You can't answer any questions. So now you know what the translators were thinking? It's official you're a groupie and a coward. Maybe they were thinking how much they can get paid off sheep like you. Where is your polemic, intellectual proof to support the bible? You attempt to translate the translators when you are apparently just as incompetent of translating as the translators. continue...
@solaphyde Where is your scholarly research for your translating assertions? Oh, that's right, you don't have any because you know what the translators were thinking.
Tell me what the translators were thinking when they translated Ezekiel 4:12. God ordered Ezekiel to make and eat bread with human dung. Or Ezekiel 29:19-20. Ezekiel predicted that Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon will conquer Egypt. Never happened; did it? Go ahead, make something up.
@ilikemike2436 There are answers for these things. No matter what someone says it wont matter because you're predisposed to polemics of the Scripture, EVEN when clarifications are given of supposed contradictions. That behavior is actually a fulfillment of Scripture in that people will be anti-Christ. I see it all the time. It's nothing new.
@ilikemike2436 No, I don't even know him. He's just someone who came along and realized how bad your arguments are. Yes, in case you're wondering, it really is that obvious.
@solaphyde You didn't answer any of my questions or show any scholarly proof because you can't, can you? You believe in a book with mythical animals and you make up some nonsense about the translators meaning something other than what they wrote. This is the book your faith is based on and the only evidence that you can produce is some shit about what the translators probably thought and meant? continue...
@ilikemike2436 Translators thousands of years after the original translated it as unicorn. They didn't even know Hebrew. And now you just love to come along and try to use this as an amazing cherished polemic against the Bible. It's clear what your motives are.
What?...'there are answers to these things.'??? That's your answer? If you were twice as smart you still wouldn't be smart enough to be retarded. Surely, you know what the translators were thinking, don't you? Evidently, you're use to spouting nonsense unchallenged. I'm interested in exposing you as someone who pulls muck from your ass trying to pass it off as legitimate and scholarly.
@ilikemike2436 So when you assume that we must go by interpretations that are a thousands years later by people who don't know the original Hebrew isn't somehow pulling muck from your own ass and trying to pass it off as legitimate and scholarly? This is called talking out of both sides of your mouth. Or to use your example, both sides of your ass. :D There's lots of ideas on the web about Egypt and Ekeziel 29.Let me know which site is most cogent, and I'll let you know if I agree
@solaphyde By the way which book is God inspired? KJV with the apocrypha, without the apocrypha, The New King James, The 21st Century King James, The Quran, The Book of Mormon, The Bhagavad Gita, etc, and how do you know that?
With proof like yours it's no wonder you believe everything in the bible.
Religion requires sheep not proof. That's why you can't produce any.
@ilikemike2436 You're clearly not interested in having an honest and respectful dialogue on the subject. If you were, you'd already know the answers to these things because Christians have been explaining their position on these things for centuries. Even the dead Hitchens could pull this off better than you. Without God you can't account for proof. Nice try.
@solaphyde If the meaning of "reem " has been lost, according to you - again, then how in the hell do you know that it doesn't mean unicorn or that it 'probable', 'maybe', 'I think', means rhino? What fulfillment of Scripture does this verse represent? Matthew 26:52-56. Jesus says 'that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.' There is no such prophecy in the Old Testament.
@ilikemike2436 I never said it was lost. Are you even paying attention? I think you're having an anti-Christ seizure which is making you spew out all kinds of random things. Lexicons interpret it as being a one horned animal, but we don't know exactly what animal it was referring to. In Mat 26:24 he's speaking of what must be fulfilled, namely his crucifixion which is about to take place, Psalm 22, and Isiah 53.
Why should I care who you agree with? What does your opinion matter to me? Why don't you show some creativity and make something up. You want me to tell you which web site and ideals you should use in order to answer the questions? You need to go to another web site, read somebody else's opinion, decide if you agree and then claim it as your own opinion?
@ilikemike2436 You're perverting the concept of "creativity". When it comes to interpreting something historically and in context we don't get to be so creative that we make up off the wall things. There are plenty of websites that address the issue of Egypt. My point is, and you're not very bright in not noticing it yet, is that I wont spoon feed you. Look it up and tell me why they're wrong.
@solaphyde It's not being lazy and now it's quite clear that you're sucking off the Mike Brown tit. You have no thought or opinion of your own except for Brown's. You're obviously in some kind of master, servant, groupie thing with Brown. What I have been trying to impress upon you, and either you are to dimwitted or defiant to understand,
It is amazing how christians love the demonic tale of a god telling a man to burn his son as he is jealous and needs to know if Abram loves the son more.Gen22.Even though god forbid killing in Gen9,even though god hates burning children and instructs us not to do this or learn to do it,HE ORDERS ABRAM TO BURN SON.
This is evil.Doesn't god know the intent of the heart?James1 said god will NOT tempt with evil.Christians love washing in blood and pretend to drink blood..wicked stuff
I'm evil...for exposing evil?YWHW tells a man to BURN his second son and he is not evil?The one exposing this celebrated christian demonic activity is the 1 that is evil instead?
America will 1 day consider christianity a terrorist cult.sking a man to burn his son is wicked by all moral standards.Is not your insecure god omniscent?Why would he need an evil test to sooth his insecure jealousy?
Your defense of YWHW is like a pedophile saying he wanted to teach something. l8<o
@solaphyde Your lesson ends here so pay attention. The KJV is a medieval bible produced in 1611. God didn't produce any of the bibles. He is not responsible for any of the changes, inconsistencies, contradictions and footnotes. Nor is he responsible for the spelling errors, mistakes, skipped words, skipped sentences and marginal notes found in the ancient and all the medieval manuscripts. Reference Mill's apparatus written in 1707.
@ilikemike2436 is that all of the bibles are full of mistakes, contradictions, footnotes, translation errors and other absurdities that can't be easily explained or understood. I don't need to look up or explain anything in your bible. It's your belief; you do it. All of your made up, meaningless platitudes are just as unintelligible as the verses you struggle so incompletely to explain. People read and interpret the bible anyway they want to, just like you do!
@ilikemike2436 If you reject any of the current good translations of the Bible as being reliable then to be consistent you have to do the same with all other ancient writings from antiquity. Have fun!
@solaphyde Not only can you not produce any evidence for any of your beliefs, or make up anything to support what you believe, now you want me to show you where to find your theological beliefs?
Should I change your diaper and wipe your ass for you too? I have a better idea.
Since you have no evidence, why don't you just produce the original writings to any parts of the bible that way you won't have to interpret all these different manuscripts. Can you do that? Yes or No!
@ilikemike2436 You're not paying attention. I never said you were to find theological beliefs, but am saying you can find interpretations. It's clear that you don't want to because then you have to find different anti-Christ polemics and start all over. You're the one wanting ME to wipe your ass and spoon feed you. Sorry, it wont happen. There's a thing called the internet. Don't be lazy.
I gave evidence of God already. You're still not paying attention. Go back and re-read.
haha Nice book. The underlining, no so cleverly hiding point is that the Jews religion is wrong. To prove that he debates with an "imaginary" Jew who ask absurd questions so Brown can refute it or if Jews are upset about the Holocaust it's because they haven't found Jesus. Did you also enjoy, Why the Jews Rejected Jesus or Twenty-Six Reasons Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus. No thanks, you can keep your the stealth anti antisemitism.
@solaphyde Did Jesus misquote Isaiah? Luke 4:16-19. Isaiah 61:1-2. Isaiah was talking about his present condition and not about a prophet or messiah in the future. Go ahead, let's hear one of your bullshit platitudes for this. Make something up, I dare you.
What real creatures were the translators referring to when they wrote about, Cockatrices, Satyrs, Fiery flying serpents and a sea demon named Rahab?
@ilikemike2436 With Luke 4:16-19. Isaiah 61:1-2, there's many examples of this type of things taking place. 1. The apostles, or Jesus, will often quote from the LXX not the Hebrew, since that's what many Jews at that time used. 2. Christians believe that the apostles and Jesus interpret the OT texts and give us a fuller understanding of them, They have an immediate context in the OT, but sometimes the meaning is more fulfilled in a spiritual way in the NT. This is nothing new.
@solaphyde You have less than zero creditability in your so called, completely made up, translation assertions. You are too incompetent and gutless to produce any evidence. Not only can't you produce evidence but you turn any question you can't answer into an anti Christian crusade, which just shows again your true cowardice and lack of any moral character.
You're proving God's existence with this statement. You agree that sin is a problem in this world by rightly acknowledging the reality of moral failure. Jesus Christ is the only sinner's savior and calls all sinner to repent and believe in him as Lord.
@solaphyde By the way, which translator are you referring to? Give me a name or do you just lump them all together? You're one load your mom should have swallowed.
@ilikemike2436 "By the way, which translator are you referring to? Give me a name or do you just lump them all together? You're one load your mom should have swallowed."
I'm referring to the King Jimmy translators, which are a number of people, yet notably Erasmus. It wouldn't matter if my mom swallowed it silly. Acts 17 teaches that God determines the times and places were born. God is sovereign over even our sex! Silly head. Nice try.
He is evaluating Peter on the basis of his early life, in 33 C.E. when Jesus first found him. The fact that 1 Peter was written 30 years later, means we cannot assume that Peter is the same man. Imagine if we said Ehrman cannot have written his books because he grew up in Lawrence, Kansas, and attended Lawrence High School, where he was on the state champion debate team in 1973. The person who wrote Misquoting Jesus was a well trained scholar. We are leaving out 37 years of Bart's life.
As an American listening to this the fact that this is on a Christian radio station blows my mind. You have to look to NPR for this kind of open discussion in the US.
Speaking from an observers point of view Erhman comes across as competent, educated and very knowledgeable whereas the Christian debater comes across as slippery, insecure and evasive.
Pardon me for jumping in here but I just wanted to comment on what you said here about the Christian debater coming across as "slippery,, insecure, and evasive."
I have seen similar behavior from most Christian Apologists and debaters. I've debated quite a few lay people, such as myself, and have found the same thing. In fact, I'd go a bit further and say that I find a number of "defenders" especially apologists & Creationists as dishonest & deceptive. Do you agree with this?
@Cootabux I think most of them know that it's fabricated but they have a very lavish lifestyle from it that's why they get aggressive and insecure when they come up against someone who knows what they are talking about. Lets face it Christians cant handle people who have got a brain and can answer them back. Someone else will have a different view but on the whole I find fundamentalist Christians to be the most unpleasant people around, they are arrogant and extremely cold hearted in general.
It is funny, because Ehrman tells us the majority of people in first century Palestine, could not read or write any language. Yet admits we have this plethora of letters written that are clearly forgeries by nonChristians or Apostles. It would seem pretty stupid for a man to plageurize Peter or another Apostle in the first century, if Peter was illiterate. Seems like there was a lot of literate people amongst and illiterate population...
Jewish culture throughout history, has shown that Jewish parents teach their children to read and write hebrew. From the destruction of the 1st temple to the present day. We see hebrew captives and slaves put into positions of administration, due to their ability to write a language and in many cases multiple languages. Ehrman would have us believe this practice was put on hold during the first century. I simply do not buy into the main underlying premise of his argument.
I believe people in the past argued over whether or not resurrection & rapture had occurred.
What is amazing is read Revelation 11:8-12 there are 2 witnesses in Jerusalem to the same God (Jews & Christians) & a third group that hates both these 2 witnesses who love the fact that they have finally slaughtered them. Yet they are forced to watch both the Christian & Jew resurrect & raptured before their very eyes.
Truly powerfully predictive. Paul was right it hasn't happened yet.
@sfyr, Don't know your book, but mine is Torah with gospels & epistles saying basically that Torah was fulfilled & revealed in the person of Jesus Christ.
Don't know where your religion came from, but mine came from system of blood sacrifice to show faith in the blood which upon going from various peoples became centralized at a temple in Jerusalem which was built by Solomon.
"Here oh Israel the Lord thy God is One." This one is born out in Isaiah 9:6 & called Almighty God & everlasting Father.
@mythicalhell, People asked Paul if resurrection & rapture had occurred & whether dead miss out on God's kingdom. Apostle John hadn't written Revelation 11:8-15, so Paul had to deal with this question saying, "I would not have you ignorant the dead in Christ rise first & then we also will be caught up in the air." - 1 Thess 4:16
Apostle John in Revelation 11:8-15 points out none will miss it as whole world will look at 1 city (Jerusalem - T.V. & internet) & rejoice over dead bodies.
@ABAisSCIENCE Ok, just wanted to make sure you weren't quoting one of the forged letters of Paul. 1st Thess is deemed as an original letter from Paul. HOWEVER, your claim that the Apostle John wrote revelations is not verifiable. Fact is scholars readily admit that they do not know who wrote Rev. They do believe the author's name is John but that it's all but certain that he was NOT the apostle John but he is rather an UNKNOWN JOHN. In a nut shell Rev is of no value.
@mythicalhell, Good luck with thinking Revelations is of "no value." When Revelation 11:8-10 happens such that all the Jews & Christians are dead in Jerusalem & Muslims rejoice about it along with all the other lovers of Palestine where people train their three year old children to call Jews pigs & dogs (typical Islamic thinking) there is only 3-1/2 more days until you are the "left behind." Read Revelation 11:11-15 to see what I mean. Don't be ignorant (like a Muslim rejoicing).
@ABAisSCIENCE You said, "there is only 3-1/2 more days until you are the "left behind." Read Revelation 11:11-15" What are you going to say four days from now when you're still commenting on you tube? I know what you'll do. You like most xtians will justify(move the goal posts)what went wrong and you'll set another date for the rapture. SIGH.... NUTJOB
@mythicalhell, There are only 3-1/2 days to choose heaven when you see all the Jews of Jerusalem as dead corpses and all the Christians of Jerusalem as dead corpses. When you see the Muslims rejoicing over their dead bodies the count down for your avoidance of punishment begins.
@ABAisSCIENCE Seriously, KEEP YOUR CULT and its utter BS for yourself. There is NO rapture. I know your you have been duped but I really do not feel the least bit sorry for you. Here is a quote, "In 1997, in an issue of my publication The Reformer, I issued a challenge to anyone who could document any evidence that the “Rapture” dogma, as publicized today, was taught by any “church leader” or “church father” prior to 255 years ago. No one came forward. It is now 2007. I’m still waiting. CONT:
Continued here: Ok, I challenge you to find ANY evidence that the rapture was taught by any church leader prior to 255 years ago. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN OPINION or threats that cannot be proven to be true. I'm only interested in actual "evidence"
@mythicalhell, You think Rev 11:8-15 about a resurrection & rapture is unsupported elsewhere!
Genesis 49:10 "The scepter shall not depart from Judah (Jesus is King of Judah) nor a lawgiver from between his feet (Bible will rule their paths) until shiloh come (death or peace is delivered by Muslims or Islam - Rev. 11:8-10) & unto him (Jesus = eternal scepter) shall be the gathering of the people be (Rev. 11:11-12).
Also, see 1 Thess. 4:16-17 don't act cocky. Dumb people do so
@ABAisSCIENCE You believe what you want silly little man I've learned that it's fruitless arguing with fundies and evangelical christians-it's pointless.
@mythicalhell, What are you stupid? You say a ressurection and rapture weren't taught prior to 255 years ago. You are a fool. Revelation 11:8-15 is about a Resurrection & Rapture. 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is about a Resurrection & Rapture.
@ABAisSCIENCE I never said, " a ressurection and rapture weren't taught prior to 255 years ago." so stop being intellectually dishonest LIAR as it looks poorly on you. That statement was a QUOTE if you would have looked. I took the quote and made it into a challenge for you. I noticed that the best you could do though is name call in response. INTERESTING. I'm done with you as it's painfully obvious that you're pushing your religious agenda and anyone not agreeing with it is a fool. ROFL
@ABAisSCIENCE Before you call others stupid, know that the resurrection myth was borrowed from older religions. "The New Testament story of the resurrection of Jesus should never be taken as historical fact because it is of the genré of literature that takes an obscure leader and makes him worthy of devotion by his disciples, regardless of the actual historical events of his life. TNT writers are using a common religious "resurrection" theme in their religious myths about Jesus.
@MsElise2009, Resurrection is in Genesis 49:10 for as shiloh (death) comes to God's people it is then that the eternal scepter gathers His people. It is better explained in Revelation 11:8-15. Genesis is old considering Jewish jewelry dated to 800 B.C. quotes Deuteronomy. Can you mention a resurrection attributed to an actual person who died for claiming all authority like Jesus did in Mark 14:62?
Reason for an actual person is because this person is God according to below & predicted by people before flood.
Genesis 5 is about Jesus' resurrection or God as opposed to just His people. "Adam (Man) Seth (appointed) Enoch (fatal injury), Cainan (the only man of the Lord). Mahalalel (Praise God), Jared (he shall descend) Enoch (teaching) Methuselah (his death shall bring communion with the Lifted High). Lamech (For the despairing) Noah (this same shall be Comforter)."
@ABAisSCIENCE The problem is I don't view the Bible as a history book so no use quoting it as 'proof' of anything. There are myths older than 800 BC where the god resurrected (on the third day even) and 'went to heaven' As for an 'actual person', there's no proof that Jesus even excisted, never mind resurrected. If he did excist, we have no idea what he was about or did or did not say.
@MsElise2009, I am talking about dating of documents talking about resurrection and rapture to 800 B.C.
Do you care to date the document you quote that mentions something after three days? I'd love to know when it is dated to and look into its authenticity. I love cocky people. Lets see if you can stand up to scrutiny.
@ABAisSCIENCE "Jesus and the Bible stand up to scrutiny." No they don't. Me cocky? I'm just pointing out what others have found. There are plenty of scholars who see the uncanny similarities to Jesus and numerous deity myths of ancient times. Many books have been written about it. Do a search, it's not hard to find. (born of a virgin, resurrection, 12 diciples, the list goes on) There are even videos here on youtube.
@MsElise2009, you are joking right? You are funny with the line about numerous deity myths. Uncanny similarities have not been shown to predate the Bible by carbon dating of the materials. Rather they show additions to ancient myths made afterwards. Look at "Challenge #4: Christianity's Beliefs about Jesus were copied from Pagan Religions" in the book "The Case for the Real Jeesus" by Lee Strobel.
The Bible stands up to scrutiny. Other books don't.
@MsElise2009, look at Revelation 11:8-15 with two witnesses to the same God known as an olive tree (Israel or Jews) and a lamp stand (the church or Christians) and ask yourself if their is a third group in Jerusalem wanting them dead.
But then look at Genesis 49:10 and ask yourself if the scepter gathers dead bodies (in shiloh) or if he would resurrect and then rapture them to him. Little girl you are about to witness this prediction from over three thousand years ago.
@ABAisSCIENCE Umm... Hey you better look at that passage again bud. Go back to verse 4-7 Vs 6 tells you who these two men are without a shadow of a doubt in any Jew/Christian mind that knows old testament. Elijah represents the prophets 1Kings17:1;Lu4:25-27 he had power to shut off the rain.Then Moses which represents the Law. Check out Du 8:19-20 Look hes testifying against the Nation if they do not obey Gods Law. Rev11:7 Hence 70AD was game over. Man I love Gods word.
@Aneocs, The two witnesses are an olive tree (Israel - Jews) and a lamp stand (church - Christians).
Elijah is indeed a Jew so indeed he fulfills some of the miracles ascribed to the two witnesses. The Muslim is the one rejoicing over the death of the two witnesses in Jerusalem, but when you see it on the internet and T.V. then know there are only 3-1/2 days left till the resurrection and rapture per Revelation 11:8-15.
@MsElise2009 Your write others claim to have some powers but the bible has eye witnesses to the events. 2Thes1:5-10 You have one life to obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Its your choice to deny it if you so will. None the less you will be judged by it as everyone in this world will be. Myths do not count for eye witness accounts. You really need to read book of Acts check out Acts 1
GOD HAS SPOKEN AGAIN, JUST LIKE WHEN JESUS AND MOHAMMED RECEIVED A MESSAGE FROM GOD, NOW A HUMBLE MAN HAS AGAIN BEEN PREPARED TO DELIVER A GREAT MESSAGE, FOR IT IS GREATLY NEEDED.
NEWMESSAGE(.ORG)
worldwiderelease 1 week ago
@worldwiderelease TROLL
mythicalhell 1 week ago
@mythicalhell This is serious. Look without judgement.
Jesus was hardly recognized in his time.
worldwiderelease 1 week ago
A NEW YOUTUBE VIDEO CALLED "The Two Big Lies In The New Testament". blows the "virgin birth" of Jesus out of the water, and... uncoveres a major corruption in the NT.
bobbywgoodwin 1 week ago
@worldwiderelease Stop trolling please.
mythicalhell 1 week ago
If you want to have an argument about Ehrman, you could, at least, have the integrity to have him there to speak for himself.
AMATEURS!
harpo103 2 weeks ago
The non-Christian debater is an idiot. Why are so many gospels, epistles, & prophetic letters preserved? Because it's copied every decade for each century between then & now.
So we have proof of Josephus in Palestine writing literary things & many examples of non-literary things written in Greek from that time frame.
Do you know how many non-literary things were lost due to never being copied?
Do you know how much was lost in wars & burning of buildings?
People don't copy everything out there.
ABAisSCIENCE 3 weeks ago
Notice how Ehrman said we have no evidence in the ancient world how people used secertaries. Yet he states Jospehus who was a 1st century historian needed help when writing in greek, because his greek was not good. We have jospehus letters in greek, showing a secerrary. Richard Bauckham Phd Cambridge used papias who stated mark was peters interpreter and exposition. Papias was an ancient writer, so this again shows interpreters.
adamhardie111189 1 month ago
Rare finds in England- a practicing Christian,
arcz10 1 month ago
if you actually look into ancient history, sumeria, inca, india you will find Gods in the plural. The bible has ben convoulted...but if you seek you will find truth. After 25 years of research and study I have to admit the bible being convoluted makes it that much more fun and interesting to decipher. It is a game a game of hide and seek.
Matthew 7:7Ask, and you will receive; seek, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened to you. The truth is in the bible, mixed with deception.
b0bkat 1 month ago
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JamesCGI 1 month ago
@JamesCGI just by you stating that you may have no idea what I'm arguing. I'm referring to classical logic and accounting for why we should be logical, not the mere fact that logic is useful to us. So sorry, but I have no idea why you brought up your statement to my statement about God.
solaphyde 1 month ago
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JamesCGI 1 month ago
What is WRONG with the stupid christians ? are they really just plain STUPID or do they think it is a game they must win ?
The BIBLE is FAKE and FAKE and FAKE ...Dr Ehrman is not the first scholar to say it nor will he be the last one ..you christians can't hide the truth any more..your fake religion is EXPOSED ..idiots .
abooreen 1 month ago 9
@abooreen Good job. Well summarized.
notionSlave 1 month ago
@abooreen
ahahhahaha okay kid :)
MrLuisylupe 1 month ago
@abooreen The only religion that is exposed is muhammads islam and his forged quran.
The only holy book on the planet that contains over a hundred fulfilled prophecies is the holy Bible and God has preserved those prophecies. Ur quran is a load of incoherent plagiarized nonsense
OneBibleOneGod 4 weeks ago
@OneBibleOneGod
THis is all christians are good at " bitch " , when ur faith is exposed you attack islam immediately ..how the fuck do you know m a muslim ...did fox news tell you ..well guess what bitch , i am a fucking atheist and ur christianity stinks , its a fucking lie..a real big lie..u think some preacher will tell u the truth when they feed off this lie ..it is a multi billion dollar a year business.....keep up the donations boy n jesus might jus save u ..idiots
abooreen 2 days ago
@abooreen - What is sad is.... Since modern Christians have asserted, with such great fever, that Christ does in fact exist.
Even with the evidence (if they allow themselves to read it), will not and can not face the fact. That being, they have been kidding themselves all these years. And, knowing it. Having the faith that god will eventually reveal its self to them.
Pride is such a volatile fuel to the ignorant.
Rocketryman 3 weeks ago
@Rocketryman, What think you of 2 witnesses called an olive tree (Jews) & lamp stand (church - Christians) likely being killed by a third group in Jerusalem who will rejoice after killing them just as they did the day of 9-11, but this time the whole world will send gifts to every where else in the whole world within 3-1/2 days & watch it together on the internet & T.V., I presume.
Do you think it's impossible for Muslims to kill in Jerusalem?
Read about it in Revelation 11:8-15.
ABAisSCIENCE 3 weeks ago
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@ABAisSCIENCE "Do you think it's impossible for Muslims to kill in Jerusalem?"
Not at all. And not because of some divine intervention. Or "vision".
I can plug your delusion into any time in history. I can even call the world flat.
What you are is a conspiracy theorist.
Chasing after (and embracing) dogmatic, medieval ignorance.
Rocketryman 3 weeks ago
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@abooreen - What is sad is.... Since modern Christians have asserted, with such great fever, that Christ does in fact exist.
Even with the evidence (if they allow themselves to read it), will not and can not face the fact. That being, they have been kidding themselves all these years. And, knowing it. Having the faith that god will eventually reveal its self to them.
Pride is such a volatile fuel to the ignorant.
Rocketryman 3 weeks ago
@abooreen, What is wrong is that Islam begins with the premise that Yahweh can't preserve words because He is too weak & so Allah must stoop to a pedophile to write a Quran that contains abrogation against itself because it must be about hate because Muhammed must please the Sabeans in Ethiopia & take away the praise to Jews & Christians, but not the Sabeans.
The Sabeans are assholes according to Job 1:15 & so is the pedophile Muhammed. The Quran with hate for God's people also sucks.
ABAisSCIENCE 3 weeks ago
@ABAisSCIENCE
WHY ARE YOU attacking islam now , jus so u know i am no muslim ...but christianity and your astroid pilot are fake..really fake, i know it hurts, i am sure it hurts to find out the whole thing is a lie ..just be a man and take it..stop being a pussy..the bible is a corrupt book, many,many,many religious and non religious figures fucked with it and altered its contents..if you don't like it then too bad ..keep worshiping and donating ... llol idiots
abooreen 2 days ago
abooreen
U are so correct. It is one of the biggest deceptions ever devised, & it actually started with Judaism. Any decent degree of study via the Ugaritic Texts will allow the reader to see that early Judaism was polytheistic! It was rewritten by the Hebrew priests around the 7th century. This is when Yahweh was actually adopted & used to replace the gods the Jews had been worshiping. This has been found in the dead Sea Scrolls, not just the Ugaritic Texts.It was the birth of monotheism & lies
Cootabux 3 weeks ago
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corkystorky 2 days ago
I admire Ehrman's clear thinking. It's flawless.
derhammerman 2 months ago
@solaphyde ..."the true and genuine reading has been corrupted by ignorant scribes, which we see happen every day, or altered by scribes who are half-taught and half-asleep." All these manuscripts were COPIES.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 Ehrman can't prove the reading was corrupted, he only asserts it based on a few variants. And that's an entirely different thing than saying the "meaning" has been corrupted. His arguments for variants causing different types of theology is easily refuted, hence he uses the comma johanneum as part of his argument, which is ridiculous.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde Since the only way to salvation, according to you, is through Jesus; what are Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist and Sikhs to do? No salvation for them right? Sounds like you have a lot of converting to do?
Which version of the bible will your God be referring to on the Judgement Day? What will your God do with The Qua ran, The book of Mormon, The Gita, The New World Translation, etc?
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 God ultimately converts people. His people just share the gospel which God uses to convert them. Jesus can save anyone at anytime. Jesus said he was the truth, and John 1:1 explains how only God can account for truth, thus anything belief contrary to the truth is by definition a lie.
The Quran came 600 years later. The book of Mormon came 1800 years later. The WTS contradicts the Bible. Only the Bible gives the Trinity, so that one wins.
solaphyde 2 months ago
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ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@solaphyde You don't know the mind or intentions of God and if you think you do based on the bible, then you know even less. Unless you can produce the original words of scripture, and you can't, you lose. There is no doubt about that. You can keep parroting and believing in someone elses platitudes until the judgement day and it all amounts to less than zero because you, nor your master Mike Brown has the original writings.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 Your standard, along with Ehrman's, for having to have the originals (which we wouldn't even know they were original if we had them) is clearly hyper-skepticism, and takes us back into the dark ages when it comes to trusting any ancient texts. You're fulfilling Rom 1:18-20 though with that silly behavior.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde That is the summit you can't scale, the fact that you can't accept. You are being willfully ignorant. How does it feel to be so weak-minded, inept and mislead? The only thing worse than your argument is you and you misleading others.
THE END.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
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@solaphyde If God is not responsible for any of these bibles what makes you so certain that he inspired them? It would have been no more difficult for God to preserve the original writings than it was for him to inspire them in the first place. If God didn't preserve the original words then he didn't inspire them either.
God is under no obligation to judge humanity based on books created by human beings.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
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ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@solaphyde Sorry, you said the meaning of the word "reem"is unknown. Same difference, dingleberry.
Did Jeconiah sire any sons?
No, The Lord cursed Jeconiah to be childless.
Jeremiah 22:28-30
Yes, "...Jeconiah begat Shealtiel"
Matthew 1:12
NOTE: Shealtiel is an ancestor of Jesus.
Salvation is based on works only! Jeremiah 17:10, Ezekiel 18:27, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 19:17, Romans 2:6, Romans 2:13, James 2:14, Revelation 22:14.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 No, I believe "reem" can mean a one horned animal, but the specific animal it's referring to is probably unknown. Again, not paying attention.
Read Michael Brown's book on answering Jewish objections (the one about NT objections). He answers the issue about Jeconiah. Again, I wont spoon feed you, just because you're lazy.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 Rom 3-5 is the most didactic in all of Scripture about justification. Rom 3:19-21 necessarily implies we're justified apart from the moral law. You don't get to trump quote other passages, otherwise you'd be inconsistent in how you read other literature, if you only read the bible this way. Many passages are "descriptive" of salvation. Rom 2:6,13 in context are showing how one demonstrates justification.
solaphyde 2 months ago
You've heard of an applaud of fools. I now think there is what's called "a youtube thumbs up of fools". It blows my mind how people can blindly assume that Ehrman is somehow "neutral" or an unbiased historian when it comes to the NT text. He does debates about theology and writes books about theology. He's influenced by his own theological predispositions. He's not magically "neutral" like every one dreams of.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde I wipe my ass with your so-called neutral debate. Jesus thinks you're a dumbass!
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
solaphyde wins debate!! @ilikemike2436 is an idiot!!
kylep40 2 months ago
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ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@kylep40 You’re so stupid, you got hit by a parked car!
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
Bart Ehrman wins debate !!!
kylep40 2 months ago
Bart Erhman doesn't have an axe to grind. Bart is a historian and his JOB is to present information with EVIDENCE and NOT theology like Bock.
mythicalhell 2 months ago 4
@mythicalhell Don't be fooled with his cute one liners. Erhman does have an axe to grind, he just does so under the cloak of "naturlistic" historiagraphy. He chooses to interpret history through a naturalistic lens, as opposed to one where God is sovereign over history. He does history almost at times in an anti-theology way. Read the titles of many of his books as proof. :)
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde you said, "He chooses to interpret history through a naturalistic lens, as opposed to one where God is sovereign over history." What??!! Are you saying he should be putting on glasses which see your God as sovereign? You kidding, right? That's like me saying Apologist WLC has an axe to grind and does so through a theistic lens, as opposed to one where God is nothing more than a claim. In other words Bard Erhman, an agnostic, should NOT see your God as sovereign.
mythicalhell 1 month ago
@mythicalhell God being sovereign over history is exactly right. You're an unbeliever and so is Ehrman so I don't expect you to agree. It's a fulfillment of Scripture that you don't agree, Rom 1:18-20. Jesus being the promised Messiah, dying, rising, and Christianity spreading the way it did is better accounted for by God's sovereignty, not naturalism. If naturalism were correct, Christianity would have never spread in the first place. No one would have cared about a crucifixion.
solaphyde 1 week ago
@solaphyde You clearly are a SIMPLETON if you make extraordinary claims without providing a stitch of empirical evidence to support your claims. I could say the exactly things you do but replace your god with santa clause or Allah or Budha(sp) etc. You are only stating your "OPINION" in these comments. People like you aren't worth wasting time with. Show some evidence supporting your claims or we're done.
mythicalhell 1 week ago
@mythicalhell No, you're being a simpleton assuming I'm a simpleton. The fact that you're a moral creature and use the laws of logic is an extraordinary thing. You're proof of God everytime you reply on here and agree that murder is really always wrong. Allah and Santa aren't said to be eternal, those fail to 1. compare to God as defined in the Bible, and 2. can't account for real morality. Nice try. Evidence doesn't account for itself.
solaphyde 1 week ago
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An explosive YouTube video has just been posted called "The New Testament On Trial - 2012" After watching this short video, I will no longer trust anything written in the New Testament again. Christianity ppears to have been based on a lies from the NT, which is now proven to be contridictory to the Old Testament..
bobbywgoodwin 4 days ago
@mythicalhell Write this down, "consistency is a sign of truth". Ehrman is being inconsistent when he only tries to "pick on" the Bible, because to be consistent he'd have to make the same arguments about the Quran and every writing from antiquity. Does he do so? Gee, not at all. Hmmm. I wonder why? Could it be a fulfillment of Rom 1:18-20? Sure!
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde Stop being stupid! Ehrman focuses on the NT and not the Quran, WHY? Because his expertise is the NT. It's no fulfillment of anything!
mythicalhell 2 months ago
@solaphyde When asked why he doesn't "pick on the quran" Erhman said and I quote, "because I value my life too much." Do some research on Dr. Erhman instead of making unfounded attacks on him.
mythicalhell 1 month ago
@mythicalhell you got that backward
arcz10 1 month ago
@arcz10 that's your profound response? What evidence can you share to prove that "I have it backwards", because you say so? LOL
mythicalhell 1 month ago
@mythicalhell would you swap me £1 for £3? its like the trinity you know - all about faith
arcz10 1 month ago
@arcz10 Faith is a vice not a virtue. Deep down you know that I'm right. For example: Who's the smarter person in this situation? A preacher says to 2 people, hey, guys, put your skates on and come out onto the ice with me. One person ignores a sign that says "thin ice" and goes out to meet the preacher on the ice, he goes out by "faith". The other guy refuses to go out until they get "evidence" from the local fire department that the ice is safe to skate on. Who's wiser of the two guys?
mythicalhell 1 month ago
At 1:00 (hr) into the program, where they discuss the Marcionites, Darell should just say they either were confused, inconsistent, or trying to be deceptive with Paul's writings. ie. in terms of the "letter killing yet the Spirit giving life", Paul also writes in Rom 7 that the law is good and true, thus kills by finding evil in us.
On the flip side, it's far-fetched for Ehrman to act like the Marcianites could naturally come to their conclusions of Paul w/ a cursory reading.
solaphyde 3 months ago
Theology is not history, that is a distinction that must be made. Mr. Bock makes many points which make me doubt Ehrman, but in the last third of this show he seems to be using Theology instead of History, letting Faith get in the way.
Each of the 'One True Faiths' (a miracle! each is the only true one, yet there are three!) must be layed open to Critical Scholarship, this would be very healthy for democracy and keep the minds of future generations sane and open.
MushroomedAnymore 3 months ago
I found it interesting that Erhman when you look it up is a Jewish German name, Did Judas Iscariot have any offspring for this man to come down from. He seems like the familiar description of Judas in the Bible. I know that Islam is using his discredition information to promote the Koran. He must be getting high royalties from them on the side. Very suspicious man, devil has a way of picking them.
TheLionessjudah 3 months ago
@TheLionessjudah ah ha found you here. so you're an anti Anti-Semite too, huh. Since you've taken the time to research Ehrman maybe you know that he was raised an Evangelical Christian, as I assume you are.
ilikemike2436 3 months ago
@ilikemike2436 Raised, I think you may be aiming too high on the scale. Judas was a Jew, and the similarity is too close for comfort that is why the remark was made. I don't take the word of a man who sells his soul for money, maybe that is your kind, but my aim is much higher. And since you know so much about him then you must also know Islam well pads him. Evangelical christian you think? What are you?
TheLionessjudah 3 months ago
@TheLionessjudah How the hell would you know who pays him? Are you his accountant? Who pays you to post lies about him? The KKK and The Aryan Nation?
The reason you made the comment is because, in your own ignorant, low class uninformed way, you are trying to imply that the reason he is questioning the bible is because he is really Jewish. Which makes you a liar and an anti-Semite. I bet you're a homophobe, tea bagger and birther too.
ilikemike2436 3 months ago
@TheLionessjudah I study the bible from a historical, textual criticism point of view. That's who I am.
ilikemike2436 3 months ago
@TheLionessjudah What did the women see at the tomb of Jesus? Why the differences??
Matt 28:5 – an angel?
Mark 16:5 – a young man?
Luke 24: - two men
John 20:1 Or nothing or no one
ilikemike2436 3 months ago
@TheLionessjudah The woman taken in adultery. This story is only found in John. Where is the man she was caught with? Both are to be stoned Leviticus 20:10.
1. Not found in the oldest and best manuscripts in the Gospel of John.
2. The writing style is different
3. If not originally part of John Should it be a part of the bible?
ilikemike2436 3 months ago
@ilikemike2436 You know given the content of that story, there must be a reason for the nondisclosure. One day when this earth is rolled up like a scroll as the Word says, and man's Faith has been accounted for with rewards and a crown, because we really are marching to the beat of God's drum, so to speak, all those mysteries that have been in the minds of men will be revealed. Till then, really for how long do we live, and what is the certainty. The Bible is our Survival manual to hold on to.
TheLionessjudah 3 months ago
@TheLionessjudah Not an answer. The reason is because it's not original to the Gospel of John. Read the footnote attached to the verse in any modern bible. Does Les what's-his-name preach about that?!
You don't have a problem with the bible? So you believe in Unicorns?
Numbers 23:22
God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
Job 39:9
Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
ilikemike2436 3 months ago
@TheLionessjudah Do a Google search on Mark 16:8 and tell me the original ending of the Gospel according to Mark.
1. The verses are absent from the oldest and best manuscripts of Mark’s Gospels.
2. Different writing style found elsewhere in Mark.
3. The transitions between this passage and the one preceding it is hard to understand.
a. Example: Mary Magdalene is introduced in verse 9 as if she had not been mentioned yet although she is discussed in the preceding verses.
ilikemike2436 3 months ago
@ilikemike2436 If this story did happen, the Pharisees were trying to trick Jesus, thus may have pretended to want to sleep with her themselves and then take her, kind of like a cop pretending to be a prostitute at a truck stop. Also, many scholars want to take that verse out. Many Bibles have footnotes that it's an interpolation, and probably only stays in becuase of "tradition!" Also, the Latin Vulgate, over 1,000 years prior to the KJV interpreted 'reem' as rhino, not unicorn.
solaphyde 3 months ago
@solaphyde From a narrative point of view it's incomplete. She is accused of adultery but there is no mention of the man?! A lot of ifs and speculation on your part. The only way to know for certain is to read the original writings which of course we don't have. If it was not original to the gospel then maybe it should be removed. I'm sure that would also include a lot of other passages in the bible as well.
ilikemike2436 3 months ago
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solaphyde 3 months ago
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@ilikemike2436 Speculation on my part? And you're not speculating? Nice double standard. Many scholars would have NOT problem taking it out and view the passage as a CLEAR interpolation! How does this mean I'm "speculating"? Are you nuts? If you're going to try to sound smart and quote Ehrman's "we don't know the original" polemic, then be consistent and realize that would lead us into the dark ages with our understanding of historical documents. Nice try.
solaphyde 3 months ago
@solaphyde Unicorn? Could this be an error in translation? The author meant reem or rhino but wrote unicorn instead? There are several references to unicorns in the KJV bible. Are you suggesting the authors, whoever they were, wrote about animals they didn't believe existed? If the author meant rhino then they should have written rhino. How would you know that the authors actually meant unicorn and not rhino? What about Cockatrices, Satyrs, Dragons and other mythical animals in the bible?
ilikemike2436 3 months ago
@ilikemike2436 The Latin mean rhino. They may have been translating thier verses from the LXX, where the Greek word might indicate an animal with one horn. 1. the original meaning of "reem" is unknown, and 2. It might have been the LXX that that guessed, but wasn't sure how to translate "reem". My point was that the Latin, which came thousands of years earlier, says "rhino". Dragons are in apocalyptical language I believe. So you know Hebrew better than the ancient translators?
solaphyde 3 months ago
@solaphyde 'May have been translating?' 'Might indicate?' 'Might have been?' 'I believe?' Speculation?? You need to read and understand your own words. Whether you like it or not; we don't have the originals unless you know where they are. Since you're such as smart ass, polemic, know-it-all why don't you produce the original manuscripts in greek and hebrew and tells us what they say. continue...
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@solaphyde If you have an knowledge of textual criticism then you would know Ehrman is not the only scholar who says we don't have the original writings.
What difference does it matter whether they are Apocrypha text or not? The point was, is that mythological animals that do not exist are in the bible. Got it?!
Are you a scholar in Greek and Latin?
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 I'm not claiming to be a scholar. My point was that unless you know the original Hebrew meaning of "reem" you have no convincing argument.
It makes a huge difference because it uses figurative language, i.e. when Daniel translates what a dragon is it's not literally puff the magic dragon but represents kingdoms, etc.
I understand textual criticism, but what you're not understanding it Ehrman criticism. Many agree with him, but don't come to his radical conclusions
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde How in the hell do you turn your nose up at someone else's scholarly work and call it radical when you're not a scholar?! Are you a scholar groupie? The "radical" conclusion that I agree with is that there are no original writings to any parts of the bible. There are no copies of the originals. Do you disagree? If so, produce YOUR EVIDENCE. Apparently you don't know the same things I don't know. continue...
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@solaphyde You would agree that there are apocryphal writings in the bible? Someone had better tell the Evangelicals because they believe it's a book of historical facts. What is your scholarly background in apocryphal writings?
You are implying that because the writing is figurative and apocryphal means the authors are writing about mythical animals because they couldn't think of a real animal so they made one up to prove their theology? And you call Ehrman radical?!
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@solaphyde Hey Mr. Smart Ass, Polemic know-it-all, Since you're such a scholar groupie why don't you produce your scholarly research showing that translators of the Latin and Greek manuscripts believed that Unicorns were really rhinos.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 haha, you're mad. :D Are you reading? I said translators of the Greek probably thought that. The Latin says 'rhino', which came over a thousand years prior to the King Jimmy. You'll have to get better anti-Christ polemics now, and start all over on your quest to having supposed intellectual reasons to refute the Bible. Sorry. Does that then make you an Ehrman groupie for trying to stand on his branch?
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde Not an answer. You can't answer any questions. So now you know what the translators were thinking? It's official you're a groupie and a coward. Maybe they were thinking how much they can get paid off sheep like you. Where is your polemic, intellectual proof to support the bible? You attempt to translate the translators when you are apparently just as incompetent of translating as the translators. continue...
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@solaphyde Where is your scholarly research for your translating assertions? Oh, that's right, you don't have any because you know what the translators were thinking.
Tell me what the translators were thinking when they translated Ezekiel 4:12. God ordered Ezekiel to make and eat bread with human dung. Or Ezekiel 29:19-20. Ezekiel predicted that Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon will conquer Egypt. Never happened; did it? Go ahead, make something up.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 There are answers for these things. No matter what someone says it wont matter because you're predisposed to polemics of the Scripture, EVEN when clarifications are given of supposed contradictions. That behavior is actually a fulfillment of Scripture in that people will be anti-Christ. I see it all the time. It's nothing new.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde -"No matter what someone says it wont matter because you're predisposed to polemics of the Scripture, "
WELL SAID !!
shieldsff 2 months ago
@shieldsff Who are you his groupie? By the way, those aren't his words he's just repeating somebody else's.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 No, I don't even know him. He's just someone who came along and realized how bad your arguments are. Yes, in case you're wondering, it really is that obvious.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde You didn't answer any of my questions or show any scholarly proof because you can't, can you? You believe in a book with mythical animals and you make up some nonsense about the translators meaning something other than what they wrote. This is the book your faith is based on and the only evidence that you can produce is some shit about what the translators probably thought and meant? continue...
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 Translators thousands of years after the original translated it as unicorn. They didn't even know Hebrew. And now you just love to come along and try to use this as an amazing cherished polemic against the Bible. It's clear what your motives are.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde Still not an answer, you can't answer.
What?...'there are answers to these things.'??? That's your answer? If you were twice as smart you still wouldn't be smart enough to be retarded. Surely, you know what the translators were thinking, don't you? Evidently, you're use to spouting nonsense unchallenged. I'm interested in exposing you as someone who pulls muck from your ass trying to pass it off as legitimate and scholarly.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 So when you assume that we must go by interpretations that are a thousands years later by people who don't know the original Hebrew isn't somehow pulling muck from your own ass and trying to pass it off as legitimate and scholarly? This is called talking out of both sides of your mouth. Or to use your example, both sides of your ass. :D There's lots of ideas on the web about Egypt and Ekeziel 29.Let me know which site is most cogent, and I'll let you know if I agree
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde By the way which book is God inspired? KJV with the apocrypha, without the apocrypha, The New King James, The 21st Century King James, The Quran, The Book of Mormon, The Bhagavad Gita, etc, and how do you know that?
With proof like yours it's no wonder you believe everything in the bible.
Religion requires sheep not proof. That's why you can't produce any.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 You're clearly not interested in having an honest and respectful dialogue on the subject. If you were, you'd already know the answers to these things because Christians have been explaining their position on these things for centuries. Even the dead Hitchens could pull this off better than you. Without God you can't account for proof. Nice try.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde If the meaning of "reem " has been lost, according to you - again, then how in the hell do you know that it doesn't mean unicorn or that it 'probable', 'maybe', 'I think', means rhino? What fulfillment of Scripture does this verse represent? Matthew 26:52-56. Jesus says 'that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.' There is no such prophecy in the Old Testament.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 I never said it was lost. Are you even paying attention? I think you're having an anti-Christ seizure which is making you spew out all kinds of random things. Lexicons interpret it as being a one horned animal, but we don't know exactly what animal it was referring to. In Mat 26:24 he's speaking of what must be fulfilled, namely his crucifixion which is about to take place, Psalm 22, and Isiah 53.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde Non answer #4.
Are your parents siblings?
Why should I care who you agree with? What does your opinion matter to me? Why don't you show some creativity and make something up. You want me to tell you which web site and ideals you should use in order to answer the questions? You need to go to another web site, read somebody else's opinion, decide if you agree and then claim it as your own opinion?
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 You're perverting the concept of "creativity". When it comes to interpreting something historically and in context we don't get to be so creative that we make up off the wall things. There are plenty of websites that address the issue of Egypt. My point is, and you're not very bright in not noticing it yet, is that I wont spoon feed you. Look it up and tell me why they're wrong.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde It's not being lazy and now it's quite clear that you're sucking off the Mike Brown tit. You have no thought or opinion of your own except for Brown's. You're obviously in some kind of master, servant, groupie thing with Brown. What I have been trying to impress upon you, and either you are to dimwitted or defiant to understand,
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 Many have said what Brown has said. He just does a good job of explaining it in a thorough way.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde
It is amazing how christians love the demonic tale of a god telling a man to burn his son as he is jealous and needs to know if Abram loves the son more.Gen22.Even though god forbid killing in Gen9,even though god hates burning children and instructs us not to do this or learn to do it,HE ORDERS ABRAM TO BURN SON.
This is evil.Doesn't god know the intent of the heart?James1 said god will NOT tempt with evil.Christians love washing in blood and pretend to drink blood..wicked stuff
thedagonjones 1 month ago
@thedagonjones Did God let Abraham finish it? Don't you think that God did it to teach us(doesn't include you) something? You are evil.
1sl4mSh1t 1 month ago
@1sl4mSh1t
I'm evil...for exposing evil?YWHW tells a man to BURN his second son and he is not evil?The one exposing this celebrated christian demonic activity is the 1 that is evil instead?
America will 1 day consider christianity a terrorist cult.sking a man to burn his son is wicked by all moral standards.Is not your insecure god omniscent?Why would he need an evil test to sooth his insecure jealousy?
Your defense of YWHW is like a pedophile saying he wanted to teach something. l8<o
thedagonjones 1 month ago
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@solaphyde Your lesson ends here so pay attention. The KJV is a medieval bible produced in 1611. God didn't produce any of the bibles. He is not responsible for any of the changes, inconsistencies, contradictions and footnotes. Nor is he responsible for the spelling errors, mistakes, skipped words, skipped sentences and marginal notes found in the ancient and all the medieval manuscripts. Reference Mill's apparatus written in 1707.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 is that all of the bibles are full of mistakes, contradictions, footnotes, translation errors and other absurdities that can't be easily explained or understood. I don't need to look up or explain anything in your bible. It's your belief; you do it. All of your made up, meaningless platitudes are just as unintelligible as the verses you struggle so incompletely to explain. People read and interpret the bible anyway they want to, just like you do!
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 If you reject any of the current good translations of the Bible as being reliable then to be consistent you have to do the same with all other ancient writings from antiquity. Have fun!
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde Not only can you not produce any evidence for any of your beliefs, or make up anything to support what you believe, now you want me to show you where to find your theological beliefs?
Should I change your diaper and wipe your ass for you too? I have a better idea.
Since you have no evidence, why don't you just produce the original writings to any parts of the bible that way you won't have to interpret all these different manuscripts. Can you do that? Yes or No!
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 You're not paying attention. I never said you were to find theological beliefs, but am saying you can find interpretations. It's clear that you don't want to because then you have to find different anti-Christ polemics and start all over. You're the one wanting ME to wipe your ass and spoon feed you. Sorry, it wont happen. There's a thing called the internet. Don't be lazy.
I gave evidence of God already. You're still not paying attention. Go back and re-read.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde So, you're a Mike Brown groupie?
haha Nice book. The underlining, no so cleverly hiding point is that the Jews religion is wrong. To prove that he debates with an "imaginary" Jew who ask absurd questions so Brown can refute it or if Jews are upset about the Holocaust it's because they haven't found Jesus. Did you also enjoy, Why the Jews Rejected Jesus or Twenty-Six Reasons Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus. No thanks, you can keep your the stealth anti antisemitism.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 You haven't pointed out where and why Brown is wrong on his interpretations. Nice ad-homs though!
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde Did Jesus misquote Isaiah? Luke 4:16-19. Isaiah 61:1-2. Isaiah was talking about his present condition and not about a prophet or messiah in the future. Go ahead, let's hear one of your bullshit platitudes for this. Make something up, I dare you.
What real creatures were the translators referring to when they wrote about, Cockatrices, Satyrs, Fiery flying serpents and a sea demon named Rahab?
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 With Luke 4:16-19. Isaiah 61:1-2, there's many examples of this type of things taking place. 1. The apostles, or Jesus, will often quote from the LXX not the Hebrew, since that's what many Jews at that time used. 2. Christians believe that the apostles and Jesus interpret the OT texts and give us a fuller understanding of them, They have an immediate context in the OT, but sometimes the meaning is more fulfilled in a spiritual way in the NT. This is nothing new.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde You have less than zero creditability in your so called, completely made up, translation assertions. You are too incompetent and gutless to produce any evidence. Not only can't you produce evidence but you turn any question you can't answer into an anti Christian crusade, which just shows again your true cowardice and lack of any moral character.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
@ilikemike2436 "lack of any moral character."
You're proving God's existence with this statement. You agree that sin is a problem in this world by rightly acknowledging the reality of moral failure. Jesus Christ is the only sinner's savior and calls all sinner to repent and believe in him as Lord.
solaphyde 2 months ago
@solaphyde By the way, which translator are you referring to? Give me a name or do you just lump them all together? You're one load your mom should have swallowed.
ilikemike2436 2 months ago
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@ilikemike2436 "By the way, which translator are you referring to? Give me a name or do you just lump them all together? You're one load your mom should have swallowed."
I'm referring to the King Jimmy translators, which are a number of people, yet notably Erasmus. It wouldn't matter if my mom swallowed it silly. Acts 17 teaches that God determines the times and places were born. God is sovereign over even our sex! Silly head. Nice try.
solaphyde 2 months ago
I believe in Jesus just not The Bible,the Koran or the Torah.I believe in God too and Gods Spirit.
JustForBrieLarson 3 months ago
He is evaluating Peter on the basis of his early life, in 33 C.E. when Jesus first found him. The fact that 1 Peter was written 30 years later, means we cannot assume that Peter is the same man. Imagine if we said Ehrman cannot have written his books because he grew up in Lawrence, Kansas, and attended Lawrence High School, where he was on the state champion debate team in 1973. The person who wrote Misquoting Jesus was a well trained scholar. We are leaving out 37 years of Bart's life.
BibleTranslation 3 months ago
As an American listening to this the fact that this is on a Christian radio station blows my mind. You have to look to NPR for this kind of open discussion in the US.
smithjustinn 4 months ago
Speaking from an observers point of view Erhman comes across as competent, educated and very knowledgeable whereas the Christian debater comes across as slippery, insecure and evasive.
TheAmethystScorpion 4 months ago
TheAmethystScorpion
Pardon me for jumping in here but I just wanted to comment on what you said here about the Christian debater coming across as "slippery,, insecure, and evasive."
I have seen similar behavior from most Christian Apologists and debaters. I've debated quite a few lay people, such as myself, and have found the same thing. In fact, I'd go a bit further and say that I find a number of "defenders" especially apologists & Creationists as dishonest & deceptive. Do you agree with this?
Cootabux 4 months ago
@Cootabux I think most of them know that it's fabricated but they have a very lavish lifestyle from it that's why they get aggressive and insecure when they come up against someone who knows what they are talking about. Lets face it Christians cant handle people who have got a brain and can answer them back. Someone else will have a different view but on the whole I find fundamentalist Christians to be the most unpleasant people around, they are arrogant and extremely cold hearted in general.
TheAmethystScorpion 4 months ago
It is funny, because Ehrman tells us the majority of people in first century Palestine, could not read or write any language. Yet admits we have this plethora of letters written that are clearly forgeries by nonChristians or Apostles. It would seem pretty stupid for a man to plageurize Peter or another Apostle in the first century, if Peter was illiterate. Seems like there was a lot of literate people amongst and illiterate population...
Complaintdesk 4 months ago
Jewish culture throughout history, has shown that Jewish parents teach their children to read and write hebrew. From the destruction of the 1st temple to the present day. We see hebrew captives and slaves put into positions of administration, due to their ability to write a language and in many cases multiple languages. Ehrman would have us believe this practice was put on hold during the first century. I simply do not buy into the main underlying premise of his argument.
Complaintdesk 4 months ago
I believe people in the past argued over whether or not resurrection & rapture had occurred.
What is amazing is read Revelation 11:8-12 there are 2 witnesses in Jerusalem to the same God (Jews & Christians) & a third group that hates both these 2 witnesses who love the fact that they have finally slaughtered them. Yet they are forced to watch both the Christian & Jew resurrect & raptured before their very eyes.
Truly powerfully predictive. Paul was right it hasn't happened yet.
ABAisSCIENCE 4 months ago
@ABAisSCIENCE
"..2 witnesses in Jerusalem to the same God (Jews & Christians).."!!!
Same god!!!!!.. Jews reject Jesus as god...
They're unitarians, like Muslims, NOT trinitarians...
sfyr 4 months ago
@sfyr, Don't know your book, but mine is Torah with gospels & epistles saying basically that Torah was fulfilled & revealed in the person of Jesus Christ.
Don't know where your religion came from, but mine came from system of blood sacrifice to show faith in the blood which upon going from various peoples became centralized at a temple in Jerusalem which was built by Solomon.
"Here oh Israel the Lord thy God is One." This one is born out in Isaiah 9:6 & called Almighty God & everlasting Father.
ABAisSCIENCE 4 months ago
@ABAisSCIENCE
I talking about the Jews... Jews reject Jesus as god.. It's a FACT...
"..saying basically that Torah was fulfilled.."!!!
They don't beleive in that either.. Jews have different interpretations of the Torah...
sfyr 4 months ago
@ABAisSCIENCE You said, "Paul was right it hasn't happened yet." where specifically does he say that?
mythicalhell 1 month ago
@mythicalhell, People asked Paul if resurrection & rapture had occurred & whether dead miss out on God's kingdom. Apostle John hadn't written Revelation 11:8-15, so Paul had to deal with this question saying, "I would not have you ignorant the dead in Christ rise first & then we also will be caught up in the air." - 1 Thess 4:16
Apostle John in Revelation 11:8-15 points out none will miss it as whole world will look at 1 city (Jerusalem - T.V. & internet) & rejoice over dead bodies.
ABAisSCIENCE 1 month ago
@ABAisSCIENCE Ok, just wanted to make sure you weren't quoting one of the forged letters of Paul. 1st Thess is deemed as an original letter from Paul. HOWEVER, your claim that the Apostle John wrote revelations is not verifiable. Fact is scholars readily admit that they do not know who wrote Rev. They do believe the author's name is John but that it's all but certain that he was NOT the apostle John but he is rather an UNKNOWN JOHN. In a nut shell Rev is of no value.
mythicalhell 1 month ago
@mythicalhell, Good luck with thinking Revelations is of "no value." When Revelation 11:8-10 happens such that all the Jews & Christians are dead in Jerusalem & Muslims rejoice about it along with all the other lovers of Palestine where people train their three year old children to call Jews pigs & dogs (typical Islamic thinking) there is only 3-1/2 more days until you are the "left behind." Read Revelation 11:11-15 to see what I mean. Don't be ignorant (like a Muslim rejoicing).
ABAisSCIENCE 1 month ago
@ABAisSCIENCE You said, "there is only 3-1/2 more days until you are the "left behind." Read Revelation 11:11-15" What are you going to say four days from now when you're still commenting on you tube? I know what you'll do. You like most xtians will justify(move the goal posts)what went wrong and you'll set another date for the rapture. SIGH.... NUTJOB
mythicalhell 1 month ago
@mythicalhell, There are only 3-1/2 days to choose heaven when you see all the Jews of Jerusalem as dead corpses and all the Christians of Jerusalem as dead corpses. When you see the Muslims rejoicing over their dead bodies the count down for your avoidance of punishment begins.
ABAisSCIENCE 1 month ago
@ABAisSCIENCE Seriously, KEEP YOUR CULT and its utter BS for yourself. There is NO rapture. I know your you have been duped but I really do not feel the least bit sorry for you. Here is a quote, "In 1997, in an issue of my publication The Reformer, I issued a challenge to anyone who could document any evidence that the “Rapture” dogma, as publicized today, was taught by any “church leader” or “church father” prior to 255 years ago. No one came forward. It is now 2007. I’m still waiting. CONT:
mythicalhell 1 month ago
Continued here: Ok, I challenge you to find ANY evidence that the rapture was taught by any church leader prior to 255 years ago. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN OPINION or threats that cannot be proven to be true. I'm only interested in actual "evidence"
mythicalhell 1 month ago
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ABAisSCIENCE 1 month ago
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@mythicalhell, You think Rev 11:8-15 about a resurrection & rapture is unsupported elsewhere!
Genesis 49:10 "The scepter shall not depart from Judah (Jesus is King of Judah) nor a lawgiver from between his feet (Bible will rule their paths) until shiloh come (death or peace is delivered by Muslims or Islam - Rev. 11:8-10) & unto him (Jesus = eternal scepter) shall be the gathering of the people be (Rev. 11:11-12).
Also, see 1 Thess. 4:16-17 don't act cocky. Dumb people do so
ABAisSCIENCE 1 month ago
@ABAisSCIENCE You believe what you want silly little man I've learned that it's fruitless arguing with fundies and evangelical christians-it's pointless.
mythicalhell 1 month ago
@mythicalhell, You asked. I gave. Again from anyone who mocks the Bible, nothing of substance.
No surprise to me.
ABAisSCIENCE 1 month ago
@ABAisSCIENCE I challenge you to find ANY evidence that the rapture was taught by any church leader prior to 255 years ago.
mythicalhell 1 month ago
@mythicalhell, What are you stupid? You say a ressurection and rapture weren't taught prior to 255 years ago. You are a fool. Revelation 11:8-15 is about a Resurrection & Rapture. 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is about a Resurrection & Rapture.
You are a bore; your so stupid.
ABAisSCIENCE 1 month ago
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@ABAisSCIENCE I never said, " a ressurection and rapture weren't taught prior to 255 years ago." so stop being intellectually dishonest LIAR as it looks poorly on you. That statement was a QUOTE if you would have looked. I took the quote and made it into a challenge for you. I noticed that the best you could do though is name call in response. INTERESTING. I'm done with you as it's painfully obvious that you're pushing your religious agenda and anyone not agreeing with it is a fool. ROFL
mythicalhell 1 month ago
@ABAisSCIENCE Before you call others stupid, know that the resurrection myth was borrowed from older religions. "The New Testament story of the resurrection of Jesus should never be taken as historical fact because it is of the genré of literature that takes an obscure leader and makes him worthy of devotion by his disciples, regardless of the actual historical events of his life. TNT writers are using a common religious "resurrection" theme in their religious myths about Jesus.
MsElise2009 3 weeks ago
@MsElise2009, Resurrection is in Genesis 49:10 for as shiloh (death) comes to God's people it is then that the eternal scepter gathers His people. It is better explained in Revelation 11:8-15. Genesis is old considering Jewish jewelry dated to 800 B.C. quotes Deuteronomy. Can you mention a resurrection attributed to an actual person who died for claiming all authority like Jesus did in Mark 14:62?
PART TWO NEXT
ABAisSCIENCE 3 weeks ago
PART TWO:
Reason for an actual person is because this person is God according to below & predicted by people before flood.
Genesis 5 is about Jesus' resurrection or God as opposed to just His people. "Adam (Man) Seth (appointed) Enoch (fatal injury), Cainan (the only man of the Lord). Mahalalel (Praise God), Jared (he shall descend) Enoch (teaching) Methuselah (his death shall bring communion with the Lifted High). Lamech (For the despairing) Noah (this same shall be Comforter)."
ABAisSCIENCE 3 weeks ago
@ABAisSCIENCE The problem is I don't view the Bible as a history book so no use quoting it as 'proof' of anything. There are myths older than 800 BC where the god resurrected (on the third day even) and 'went to heaven' As for an 'actual person', there's no proof that Jesus even excisted, never mind resurrected. If he did excist, we have no idea what he was about or did or did not say.
MsElise2009 3 weeks ago
@MsElise2009, I am talking about dating of documents talking about resurrection and rapture to 800 B.C.
Do you care to date the document you quote that mentions something after three days? I'd love to know when it is dated to and look into its authenticity. I love cocky people. Lets see if you can stand up to scrutiny.
Jesus and the Bible stand up to scrutiny.
ABAisSCIENCE 3 weeks ago
@ABAisSCIENCE The Rupture is a farce!
harpo103 2 weeks ago
@ABAisSCIENCE "Jesus and the Bible stand up to scrutiny." No they don't. Me cocky? I'm just pointing out what others have found. There are plenty of scholars who see the uncanny similarities to Jesus and numerous deity myths of ancient times. Many books have been written about it. Do a search, it's not hard to find. (born of a virgin, resurrection, 12 diciples, the list goes on) There are even videos here on youtube.
MsElise2009 4 days ago
@MsElise2009, you are joking right? You are funny with the line about numerous deity myths. Uncanny similarities have not been shown to predate the Bible by carbon dating of the materials. Rather they show additions to ancient myths made afterwards. Look at "Challenge #4: Christianity's Beliefs about Jesus were copied from Pagan Religions" in the book "The Case for the Real Jeesus" by Lee Strobel.
The Bible stands up to scrutiny. Other books don't.
ABAisSCIENCE 4 days ago
@MsElise2009, look at Revelation 11:8-15 with two witnesses to the same God known as an olive tree (Israel or Jews) and a lamp stand (the church or Christians) and ask yourself if their is a third group in Jerusalem wanting them dead.
But then look at Genesis 49:10 and ask yourself if the scepter gathers dead bodies (in shiloh) or if he would resurrect and then rapture them to him. Little girl you are about to witness this prediction from over three thousand years ago.
ABAisSCIENCE 4 days ago
@ABAisSCIENCE Umm... Hey you better look at that passage again bud. Go back to verse 4-7 Vs 6 tells you who these two men are without a shadow of a doubt in any Jew/Christian mind that knows old testament. Elijah represents the prophets 1Kings17:1;Lu4:25-27 he had power to shut off the rain.Then Moses which represents the Law. Check out Du 8:19-20 Look hes testifying against the Nation if they do not obey Gods Law. Rev11:7 Hence 70AD was game over. Man I love Gods word.
Aneocs 18 hours ago
@Aneocs, The two witnesses are an olive tree (Israel - Jews) and a lamp stand (church - Christians).
Elijah is indeed a Jew so indeed he fulfills some of the miracles ascribed to the two witnesses. The Muslim is the one rejoicing over the death of the two witnesses in Jerusalem, but when you see it on the internet and T.V. then know there are only 3-1/2 days left till the resurrection and rapture per Revelation 11:8-15.
ABAisSCIENCE 18 hours ago
@MsElise2009, Find out why Barak Obama's grandpa was castrated by the British in a video I'll be putting up this weekend.
ReligionOfSacrifice 4 days ago
@MsElise2009 Your write others claim to have some powers but the bible has eye witnesses to the events. 2Thes1:5-10 You have one life to obey the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Its your choice to deny it if you so will. None the less you will be judged by it as everyone in this world will be. Myths do not count for eye witness accounts. You really need to read book of Acts check out Acts 1
Aneocs 18 hours ago