First Principles Debate #1: (Improved Audio!) Government's Proper Role

[KajiCarson]

This is great. A sober and reasoned debate between two civilized adults -- more of this is needed in the public sphere.

[SpellboundSolution]

Reason begins at 20:10.

[DireHippo]

I agree with Yaron's statements, for the most part. However, his argument for the civil war is quite incorrect. The initiation of the war and its continuation was not slavery. Slavery was used as an ex post facto justification. There's quite a bit of literature on the subject, including Lincoln's inauguration speech. Unfortunately, our schools (being massive federally controlled entities) have a pro-giant-centralized--all-con­trolling-government theme to them.

[natdavi]

@DireHippo what about the southern states outlawing abolitionist groups in violation of the 1st amendment?

[BkAlex]

At 32:00, Miles Rapoport makes the standard, but entirely false/dishonest/ignorant, Liberal argument that the Preamble to the US Constitution grants the power to government to provide for the "General Welfare." This is in direct contradiction to James Madison's (considered the father of the US Constitution) views in the Federalist Papers and elsewhere.

[blspro]

"Go an live in Somalia then! No government there!" And here you see the false alternative Hounds and others like him accept. Either you must accept govt initiation of force or you must accept gang warfare -ie no govt at all. A govt which is *limited* to the defense against the initiation of force? They blank it out and create their straw man of 'no govt.' in its place. And they engage in this blatant pretense because they can't win against the *actual* idea - as the debate clearly demonstrated.

[wildcatcoady]

if u buy that u deserve rights, then u buy in to the idea that someone has the right to grant them!!!!!!!!

[natdavi]

@wildcatcoady circular reasoning fail. You're arguing that right have to be granted by somebody b/c rights are granted by somebody. Rights are a description of human nature, ie it is right that people should be allowed to keep what they earn. You do not grant someone the right keep what belongs to him, you recognize that it is right and respect his right. The fact is that people can choose not to respect each other. You say rights are granted, but actually they're recognized and respected.

[vincentrand100]

Thanks for posting! OBJECTIVISM WINS!

[quintetdward]

I challenge the moderator's first assumption (stated at 27 seconds). Those who seek a government job (military and courts excepted) are not interested in the public good. They are haters of the good who find in government a means of getting even with their superiors- of making intelligence and ability suffer for the crime of being superior. The vast majority of them have traded independence for security and and they hate those of us who retained the sovereignty of our minds.

[TeaParty1776]

@MartyNMC61 You decide, by a rational standard.

[scepticsteve]

Braindead public education number 18 at the end really loves to hear himself talk, doesn't he?

[tothemax01]

damn, I'd hate to hear the original audio!

[kmackillop]

BTW, I have a job that is the result of a voluntary agreement.

Your comments (theHOUNDSofDOOM) make me want to vomit.

[kmackillop]

A right not to be exploited???? LOL!! Why would you possibly think you have such a right. And why would you WANT it????

[wildcatcoady]

the only "right " you have, is the "right" to return to the jungle!!

[TeaParty1776]

@wildcatcoady Since a right is a condition for individual survival in society, the denial of rights is the denial of individual survival in society. The history of collectivism is the bloody, concrete proof of that.

[wildcatcoady]

@TeaParty1776  wtf is collectivism??? gatherers? as opposed to hunters????

[natdavi]

@wildcatcoady Collectivism is the believe that the basic unit of a society is a collection of people (which is called a collective) as opposed to individual persons. There are many forms of collectivism:

society based on family is tribalism, based on community is communism, based on society is socialism, based on a state is statism, based on race is racism, based on class is classism (or Marxism for its founder). All of these forms of collectivism are against individualism.

[DavidsIllustrations]

@TeaParty1776 an incredible summation

[scruncherg]

For that matter you have the right to grow your own food, if you do not like it, vote with your dollars

[scruncherg]

exploitation is not exclusive to capitalism, in fact I would say Stalin exploited the poor as well.

[theH0UNDSofD00M]

All that talk about the rights of the individual, what about my right of not being exploited, my right of getting an education even if my parents resources are bone dry , what about my right to ear decent food, not adulterated by whatever brings more short time profit to the corporation dealing in that respective commodity? I guess that gentleman conveniently forgets about all that. "The foolish reject what they see and not what they think; the wise reject what they think and not what they see"

[appraiserjv1]

@theH0UNDSofD00M you only have a right to life. you can not have a right if someone else is to provide it for you. what you want is a blank check drawn on my account.

[theH0UNDSofD00M]

shit, another 15 minutes to go...God help me, I hope it goes fast cuz I'm about to make same sort of anti-Semitic comment or something, never heard so much RUBBISH in my fucking life..WHAT A CHARLATAN!!!

[theH0UNDSofD00M]

Rand's tool argument on corporations being "forced" to hire lobbyists due to "strong" restrictive measures by the government, it's the same if I claimed that the Mafia only contracts lawyers because the police kept investigate them.

[appraiserjv1]

@theH0UNDSofD00M Yes, in the mafia's case they are suppling good free people demand. if there were no prohibition (on drugs and prostitution) no mafia would be necessary.

[theH0UNDSofD00M]

All corporations are extensions of individuals? But government's aren't?? Here the Rand tool argument really falls apart, as absolutely no one has a job that is a voluntarily agreement, like the despicable man claims.

[theH0UNDSofD00M]

Americas was only "absorbing" because there was a huge mass of land and constant demand for workers, obviously due to the shortage of the same workers. The Rand tool choose to ignore that fact. Plus, not even Marx argued that capitalism wasn't a improvement over feudalism, although today, if we follow the ARC advice we walk into serfdom again...kids and all, by the looks of it...bloody shocking seeing people say this sort of shit in public.

[theH0UNDSofD00M]

despicable man...what a horrible person, always sticking that finger at you and saying "that's it!" Yours this, yours that, your this, your that! Go an live in Somalia then! No government there!

[theH0UNDSofD00M]

Another great upload, Joe.

Thanks!