pretty soon christians are gonna act as catholics,, making people learned, so many things and go truh rituals,, that is not the way... salvation is personal, is like asking your your girlfriend to marry you , each does it own way,,, like this guy says is no the woords but the hart
and thats the big difference... you repented.... I was just wanting a "get out of Hell free" card. No repentance... just didnt like the idea of hell. If saying some words kept me from hell then I was all for it. But in my heart I still wanted my own way. And yes i was "sincere" i sincerely didnt want to go to hell... I just didnt sincerly want to follow God at that time in my life.
I said the words when I was 8 yrs old, but i did not become God's child till I was 37 yrs old, and realized that niether God nor His Love were in my heart... that I had not seen it, wasnt sure if it was real, but I didnt have it and i needed God and His love desperatly
Its the honest fervernt cry from the heart for Him that God hears... not the words themselves.
@preciousone1962 I was about that age too, but my pastor told me that my sins are keeping me from God, and if I wanted to be saved, I must repent and put my faith in Jesus. I did that and tried to live a Godly life, but I fell so much.
I know that I was born again that day, but didn't realize what a walk with Jesus meant. The churches I went to never taught me much of any thing, so I just went my own way for a while. But the Holy Spirit convicted me, and I came running back to Jesus.
For By Grace (Gods power to transform the heart) ye are saved Through Faith (your choice to believe and put your love,hope and trust in) and that not of yourselves (your own ability), Its is a gift of God ( mercy and love demonstrated through Christ death on the cross) not of works(no act, deed, way of man) lest any man should boast
@carpentersdaughter2 You see, men are dead in their sins, but the work of the Holy Spirit opens the eyes of men to see that they need God in their lives. The biggest problem Calvinist have is that they have been engrained to believe that free will doesn't exist.
Right from the Garden free will has been with us..free will is a gift too from God, and when we use that free will, we are not doing works when we finally see by the work of the Holy Spirit, that we need God. This is not works!!!
@carpentersdaughter2 Thats the problem! THERE IS NO GODLY SORROW! Its just some 4 or five step thing, most people saying that prayer don't realize how pitiful, hopeless, wicked protest and weak they are to a HOLY RIGHTEOUS GOD, but they say they deserve to go to Hell anyway... True repentance leads to True salvation, with evidence the person has Truly been saved, no four or five "things God wants you to know" is going to help them Truly realize this!
Paul Washer is not accusing the "sinners prayer" as being something that SURELY WITH NOT get you saved. No, he clearly states that THE GENUINES of that prayer, the way you can verify it was natural and real, and not some words, is that the man's life will be radically changed (the born-again experience). No preacher should call people to the sinners prayer, they have to let the Holy Spirit to drive themselvs alone to that prayer. A prayer has to be prayed, not spoken or repeated.
@fakirJ I thought this too of Paul Washer. I had him in my favorites, that is, until I heard him speak more. He is a hypercalvinist. He told this young man that NO ONE can come to Christ, that Christ has to choose them in order to be saved. That's when I deleted all my Washer videos.
@carpentersdaughter2 a 2 year old child holds on to someone's finger. that man starts spinning, can the child still hold on to his finger? but if the man grabs hold of that child's hand, starts spinning, has he not the power to still hold him while spinning? the same with being saved. -> John 1:12-13(nor of the will of man) ; John 6:44 ; Romans 9:16. This is the Scripture brother, I tell you what, Paul Washer is not the one you stand against, Scripture is that which you stand against.
anyways, don't get me wrong, i may seem harsh when i try explaining something... but in no way do i want this disscution to degenerate into a wrangle, so pardon my "style" if you find it offending sometimes, i don't mean it. the most important thing is that however, whenever, whereever you were saved, the genuines of that moment is that you continue in your walk with Jesus, and your life is totally changed.
@GodLovesUs100 The Father draws us by the Power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts men of sin, and shows the Light of Jesus Christ. Putting faith in Christ is not a work, but a gift that is given to us to be able to make our own choice.
Since there is free will to sin, there is free will to accept God's invitation to salvation.
@carpentersdaughter2 Your comment was so true until the last part.My friend, the Bible does not say we sin by our own free will.It says we are born in sin, slaves of sin, dead in sin, and it's all we've ever known.I don't choose to be a sinner, I am born one.
And Yes, God draws us and saves us by himself, it is a work of him.Salvation is a work of him and he draws whomever he wills.
I think you confuse will and free will.We're not robots but we certainly cannot see if we are blind.
@GodLovesUs100 So, what I hear you saying is that men are so evil that they don't want God, so God has to force Himself upon them to love Him against their will.
So, I see that you don't love God of your own will but out of programing that's been put into you by God, you now love him.
I can honestly say that what I hear you saying is that man can never love God on his own, so the only way that man can be saved is when God forces them against their will to love him.
@carpentersdaughter2 It's not force, it's called regeneration whereby God changes the heart of a wicked person..that does not mean he makes them into a robot.Their eyes are opened from their blindness so that they might see their need for him and he draws the sinners unto himself.Their love for them grows more and more as they get to know him.Now that they are converted and born again, they no longer are a slave to their sin but are free to follow hard after Christ.
@GodLovesUs100 Calvinism teaches that man is so wicked that he does not seek God. That man is dead and dead men can't make choices.
You can't have it both ways....if man is so wicked that he will not make a choice for God, there is no other choice from God but to force that person to believe...like I said you can't have it both ways.
Yes, it is regeneration, and it's from the Holy Spirit, but there is nothing in scripture that free will doesn't exist.
@carpentersdaughter2 Yes, cause that is what the Bible teaches.And like I said, it's not force, it is regeneration and after one is regenerated, they no longer are dead in sin but see their need for Christ...they don't come to him grudgingly like some kind of slave, not really wanting to obey but their hearts are literally changed to want him! That is the miracle here!
@GodLovesUs100 Here's what you don't see...Calvinism teaches that men hate God, and men don't want God. The only way man can love God is to be taken against his will, which you've already said that he hates God, and forces him.
Now call it what you will but regeneration is not what it is, especially if you are going to hold on to the teaching that man hates God so much and that he doesn't want to have anything to do with God. You can't call it anything else, it's being forced to love God.
@carpentersdaughter2 Not taking him against his will, no one becomes a Christian by still hating God,HE REGENERATES THEIR HEARTS AND BRINGS THEM BACK TO LIFE so the person then sees his need for God and is CHANGED FROM HIS FORMER DEAD STATE.
it is regeneration, yes man is naturally not good and does not seek God(the Bible says that) and so it takes a work of the Spirit to change, regenerate their hearts that they not only see the need of God, but they want him.
@carpentersdaughter2 we cannot want God if we are spiritually dead....so it is a miracle and a work of God when he takes a sinner, opens their eyes, changes their heart, draws them unto himself, and saves them..not because of anything they've done but because God is rich in mercy and in grace
@GodLovesUs100 Let me ask you this...How can it be a miracle if God forces man to love Him? Where is the miracle in that? Since man is so evil that he hates God and doesn't want to have anything to do with Him, the only way to be saved is by force feeding the man against his will to love Him.
@carpentersdaughter2 And there is a great miracle in God taking a desperately wicked heart of stone and replacing it with a heart of flesh.
Besides, since when is it okay to dismiss a doctrine so clear in scripture because it does not fit our criteria and/or understanding? May the Lord bless and lead you to see...I suggest you would pray about this.
@GodLovesUs100 The doctrine of Calvinism is what's bad. Yes, we are saved by Grace alone, and having free will to choose God after being convicted by the Holy Spirit is not a work for salvation.
I have spoken to many Calvinists and I took on a deep study of Calvinism, and it's so easy to see that God gave man a free will...we see this throughout the whole bible. Calvinism is not scriptural. Not to the degree that Calvinism teaches.
man is wicked, Yes. Like I said, if man is so wicked that he will never want God, then according to Calvinism, God forces man to love him.....
But you have to look at this too....if man doesn't desire to know God, then why are there so many religions where men want to know God? I see regeneration from people in the Mormon church. They have a strong love for Jesus, even though it is the wrong Jesus...
@carpentersdaughter2 Read Romans 3, it claims no one does good and seeks after God, no one understands, all have become worthless, and there is no fear of God before their eyes.How then, if no one seeks God, does a Christian seek him in order to be saved?God first has sought after them.Read also Romans 9, God says he has mercy ON WHOM HE WILLS and hardens WHOM HE WILLS.
@GodLovesUs100 The Holy Spirit convicts men of their sins, and shows them that their own sin is keeping them from God. It is not a work, when the Holy Spirit opens the eyes of a person and they make that choice to believe or not to believe.
There is no mercy when God forces a person to believe. Since you say man can not come to God because he has no free will, then the only other alternative is to be forced....that's not grace, that's being forced feed against the will of that person.
@carpentersdaughter2 The holy Spirit sure does convict, amen.And God sure does draw the once dead in sin sinner unto himself and turns their heart to come.And then God saves.It's a work of his.There is mercy on him saving a person considering he is not obligated to and we certainly do not deserve salvation.Again, are you going to reject what scripture clearly teaches b/c it does not fit your criteria.Make no mistake, NO ONE SEEKS AFTER GOD IN THEIR CARNAL STATE.
@GodLovesUs100 I don't reject Christ, I reject the teachings of John Calvin, just as I reject the teachings of Joseph Smith. I have Mormons tell me all the time that I am rejecting the truth. It doesn't matter that at one point in my life I was a Mormon. I know their teachings, and when studying the bible, I see how horriffic that church is. yet these men and women tell me I am rejecting scripture, just as you have.
No sir, it's the teachings I reject, not the Bible.
@carpentersdaughter2 You reject what the Bible teaches if you reject that no one seeks after God.It is clearly state in there.Would you like for me to quote the direct quote to you?Election is also clearly evident.This is not about John Calvin, these truths have long existed before he was ever born, he just reaffirmed them.Would you like for me to send you links showing that the early church believed this as well and refuted Armenian concepts?
@GodLovesUs100 I never said no one seeks after God, that is what you think I Beleive. I do beleive that. You talk like a cultist, with your elite doctrines, and you can't see it, just as the Mormons can't see the lies of Joseph Smith.
I am NOT an Armenian either. I am a Born Again Christian in Jesus Christ.
I reject John Calvins interperation. Anytime anyone believes a mans interperation of the bible, it is called a cult, and Calvinism is a cult all of it's own.
@carpentersdaughter2 Yet many end up believing by his grace.Calvinism or not, predestination is clear in the Bible.No doubt people love the gods they create in their minds, but if someone where to preach the God of the Bible to them, they would not love him in their dead state.No one seeks after the true Living God, idols sure, but not a Holy God.
Besides, why are you flat out denying what the Bible says?
read Romans 3,IT SAYS NO ONE SEEKS AFTER GOD!! That's not my opinion, it's scripture
@GodLovesUs100 Why not read Romans 8 and you will see there how Paul states that because God FOREKNEW, He predestined us. Based on God's foreknowledge, God predestined us to be His children.
A better understanding of predestination comes from reading Romans 8 first. Otherwise the whole concept of Calvinism is based only on Romans 9...context, context, and context.
@carpentersdaughter2 Yes, he foreknew as in knew us before hand.Remember what he said to Jeremiah the prophet? "BEFORE I formed you in the womb, I KNEW you" Look at Romans 11:2, the word "foreknew" is used there and yet not in context of him knowing Israel would choose him...neither is that the context is Romans 8.
Romans 8 is a great chapter to point out election, so is Romans 9, John 6, John 10, ect. It's not based on one scripture alone.may the Lord give you understanding.
@GodLovesUs100 The Holy Spirit has already given me understanding. you know the Mormons take that verse in Romans to mean that we were in Heaven before we came to earth...I reject that notion too as it is false.
Foreknew that some would put their faith in Christ, and it is NOT WORKS when God gave us the ability to choose.
You just can't see how you make God out to be. He doesn't force Himself upon men, what the Holy Spirit does is open the eyes of men to see and Beleive or reject Him.
@carpentersdaughter2 Anyways, I do not wish to get into a fight with you, so I am stopping here.May the Lord Jesus Christ shed his grace upon you and keep you for his own glory.
@carpentersdaughter2 by the way, here are some scriptures to leave you off with:
"even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love"Ephesians 1:4
"And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”John 6:65
"he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, bu taccording to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit," Ti 3:5
@carpentersdaughter2 "At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that YOU HAVE HIDDEN things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will"Matthew 11:25-26
"But what is God’s reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. " Romans 11:4-5
@GodLovesUs100 Don't have a problem with those scriptures, I totally believe what they say. I reject Calvins interperation of them. John Calvin who murdered hundreds of souls for not believing in his doctrine shows quite cleary that this man had the mindset of a cult leader.
Stop promoting the works of John Calvin, who murdered hundreds of people for not believing his teachings.
@carpentersdaughter2 "....But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then?Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened," Romans 11:6-7
@GodLovesUs100 There is no grace in this at all. What if I came and kidnapped you, and told you, now, you are going to love me, and I give you a shot of love potion into your arm..then you will love me...not because you want to love me but because I forced you to love me. You did not come to me by your own free will, and you didn't love me on your own free will..the only reason you love me is because I made you love me.
@carpentersdaughter2 It is grace.This has nothing to do with the kidnapping scenario..If you kidnapped me and tried to maintain a loving relationship with me even though I did not want to, that would be something like force.That is NOT the same as God changing someone's heart so that they would want to come to him and whoever comes to him, he will in no likewise cast out.it is truly being made new and renewed, awakened to the truth and lead to repentance and faith by grace.
@GodLovesUs100 What you say about God not forcing us is true, but what you can't see that Calvinism teaches that men are so wicked that they don't want God. Now if men are so wicked that they don't want God, and the only way to save them is to force them against their will to love Him. This is what you can't comprehend.
You can't have it both ways. Calvinism says men will not come to God, so the only way, according to calvinism would be to force them.
I have no problem with the sinner's prayer if it is in the Spirit, ie done under conviction prduced by encounter with the Holy Spirit of Christ.
If it is not it is merely anothr mantra. But the same goes for Wsher's endless ranting about repentance. if a person "repents" but not under the Spirits leading it too ismeaningless
Washer is a hate filled legalistic bigot who thinks feeling guilty is the same as coming under conviction. it is not, that is why his screaming is counterproductive
@Strefanash The problem with Paul Washer is that he's a hypercalvinist. His belief is that if you ask Christ into your life and you are sincer, you still aren't saved. Unless one is chosen by God, one can repent till hell freezes over and they still wouln't be saved.
There's no room for free will in the Calvinist world.
We are either robots who have flesh or we are human beings with a free will to resond to God's love. Washer does not beleive anyone can respont on their own.
One other thing; A hyper-calvinist claim you made in the comment section is someone who doesn't believe they need to preach the Gospel because God has already made His choice. Please don't throw that term around at someone who believes in the doctrine of sovereign grace and still preaches the Gospel on the streets as well as the pulpit, especially since so many professing Christians do not.
@MustardSeedish I heard in another video Paul Washer telling a young man that no one can come to Christ, no one, he has to be chosen by God in order to be saved. This is hypercalvinism. I was very disappointed when I heard him say this as I had so many of his videos. There's soverign grace and then there's the hypercalvinist view that God chooses some for hell and some for salvation for HIs glory.
To throw out the sinners prayer as Washer does is throwing any chance of someone accepting Jesus
@carpentersdaughter There are too many verses to list but the main one that comes to my mind is "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren" Rom 8:29 I think you need to do more research biblically and look up what hyper-Calvinism. He preaches the Gospel as a ministry thus nullifies him as a hyper Calvinist. Calvinist yes; hyper one no.
@MustardSeedish God knew who would come to Him because of His Foreknowledge. Now even hypercalvinist believe that the gospel has to be preached to reach those who were chosen by God.
even calvinist don't believe that man has free will to come to God, even after the Holy Spirit convicts men.
We are ordained because of God's foreknowledge and this is where the Calvinist disagrees with.
And every single one of them told me that God chooses men for salvation, NOT that men get convicted of their sins and repent and put their faith in Jesus, no, it's God chooses them.
they do not believe in free will. There are many holes to this belief and causes men to be robots for God, rather then being convicted and repenting. If that's the case, then those who are chosen are nothing more then fleshy robots who obey because they've been chosen.
@carpentersdaughter2 I'm not going to defend a doctrine and that is really not the issue. If you do a search on YT "Calvinism is not the Issue" (I think that's what it's called), it is a short excerpt of how he feels about Calvinism. I think you need to give this guy a break. He is doing a good work, much like my "free will" brothers Ravenhill and Wesley.
@MustardSeedish Either he has changed his views or this video you speak of is before he became a hypercalvinist. All I know is what I watched him say to a young man that we don't have free will, that God picks some for salvation while allowing others to go to hell. I've talked to other Calvinist who've seen this video and totally agree that this is just plain calvinism, not even hypercalvinism.
If he's changed his views then I need to know about it, otherwise, the video stays up.
@carpentersdaughter2 No doubt he is a Calvinist, but he does not make that his mission. I'm pretty sure I've seen the video you’re referring to, and what he said is not hyper-Calvinism. I think you need to do more research of the term because it is falsely accusing your brother. Hyper-Calvinist denies the need to preach the Gospel and heresy.
BTW, the video you saw was after, because when he was talking to the young man at "Deeper" Conference 10/08 and the 10 Indictments was 11/08.
@MustardSeedish I went to his site to see if anything has changed and it hasn't. I watched that video and it's not long enough to make any decision. I tried looking for that video on his site so I could hear the whole thing, but in that little time allowed, he doesn't speak against Calvinism.
ELECTION. Election is God's eternal choice of some persons unto everlasting life-- not because of foreseen merit in them, but of his mere mercy in Christ-- in consequence of which choice they are called, justified and glorified.
this is calvinism to the core, that man can not repent and come to Christ even with the work of the Holy Spirit. Men are chosen, and that's how they get saved, not that the Holy Spirit convicts a man and then he repents and places faith in Jesus.
@carpentersdaughter2 I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding sister. There are a lot of jerks here on YT that are misrepresenting the doctrine. I wish people would just get to the issue of regeneration and I think that is what PW's message is all about regardless of his doctrine. There is another quick video if you type "Are you a calvinist? Paul Washer" God bless you.
@carpentersdaughter2 The video is called Ten Indictments {A Historical 21st Century Message}. It's long, but I encourge you to try and listen without any preconceived philosophies, I think as a Christian who should be very concerned about the state of our Laodicea culture may find it very enlightening.
@carpentersdaughter2 A true Calvinist will believe in what Calvin taught which is the famous TULIP acronym. I would recommend you Google Calvinism and then hyper Calvinism.
Dear Sister, The sinner's prayer, if is done as a method of salvation rather than a result of salvation, is no more man made than the infant baptism of Rome. I respect Washer's plea for all of us to examine this method that has swept our land for the last 100 years and deluted millions of people into thinking they are saved and possibly never open to a true Gospel because they no longer see a need for grace. Do I believe everyone who said the prayer is not saved, no; and neither does PW.
Good point. I would have to say you were more than gracious in your video. To every clown monkey who came up with this idea, let me say this. How many will be saved who have NOT repented and called on the Name of Jesus for forgiveness and Salvation. Let me help. ZERO, NONE, ZIP, NADA, not UNO. All who can not explain THE TRUTH without causing confusion is not sent from God, is not anointed to teach, so they had best shut up shutting up. Exalting men, not the best of ideas.
Please you have never proof your claim about the sinners prayer from scripture therefore your claim is a lie. its a man made method by devil. you cannot defend the devil because hell exist bro
What Paul Washer says is the truth........ receiving or inviting Jesus in the heart is a canality man made method.
The walk with our LORD is a personal intimacy relationship. It is a walk knowing each other intimately/a daily communion and love. It is a daily die to the flesh and submit to His Lordship every day.
@fijiization Limited atonement is from Satan himself. God has said and called men to repent. He made a way for all mankind, not just some. We are not robots who have been programed to love God, but because of the power of the Holy Spirit, we see our sins, and we repent because of what Jesus did for us.
Paul Washer is a hypercalvinist, which goes totally against scripture.
@carpentersdaughter2 where in the Scripture that Jesus says that or his disciples.The message was REPENT and BELIEVE for the Kingdom of GOD is at hand. We dont receive Jesus in our hearts but the HOLY SPIRIT dwells in us. If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and Believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. It doesnt says receive or invite Him in your heart. Make your election sure.
@fijiization Either you are a hypercalvinist like Paul Washer is, or you don't realize what this man teaches. He teaches that God picked and choosed who He would save, and allow all others to go to hell. This is so far against what the Bible teaches, and you either are a hypercalvinist yourself, or you just don't realzie what this man is.
@carpentersdaughter2 not all mankind will go to heaven. God have mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and he hardened whom he wants to hardened. He made Pharaoh for His glory to show His power. The road to heaven is narrow and the gate is narrow
@fijiization I'm really tired of talking to such ignorance as yourself. You worship Paul Washer, you believe his lies, and you defend him more then Jesus Christ.
@fijiization This all goes back to the garden. God gave Adam and Eve a choice. The choice to eat from the tree of knowledge. Paul Washer teaches that men don't have a choice when it comes to salvation. This is a lie from the pits of hell.
The bible is very clear that God calls men to repent, all men. this is consistent throughout the Bible, and Paul Washer teaches against the bible when it comes to salvation.
God does not say, I choose you for hell as Paul Washer teaches.
@fijiization I have to say, God didn't say He "made" Pharaoh to show His power. He said He raised up Pharaoh to show His power. In other words, Pharaoh was already a hardened man. God used his hard heart to show His glory to the world.
John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
My Bible commentary:
"Jesus' point was that just as the wind cannot be controlled or understood by human beings but its effects can be witnessed, so also it is with the Holy Spirit. He cannot be controlled or understood, but the proof of His work is apparent. Where the Spirit works, there is undeniable and unmistakable evidence."
Good video, anybody evagelizing should exhort people to repent of sin and place their trust in Christ after they proclaimed the gospel, not exort them to say a prayer. A person truly being drawn by the Holy Spirit will call upon God to have mercy on them.
The key word here is "repentance". The sinner prayer is not a "magical sentence" that someone says or repeats. But is a guide just like the prayer Jesus tought to his disciples.
We are saved by grace alone and it happens when we truly confess and repent of our sin (turning away and hating sin). Wether this happened at any given point in someone's life. This is the core of the message of Paul Washer. I believe he nailed it. Blessings to all!
I totally agree with you one hundred percent. Neither are these words meaningless if the person says these words when they mean it with a sorowful heart.
I use to like Paul Washer but when I heard him say that God chooses some men for hell, I had to say, that's it. I don't believe that one bit.
Prov 16:4, 9 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. . . A man's heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
....just sayin. Pray about it. There's more to God than most think.
These text boxes are too small to say what needs to be said. I will try to make this brief.
Not only have I prayed about it, but cried over it, begged God to show me if this is His truth. I studed like a Berean, and the more I prayed and studied, the more the Holy Spirit showed me that through the power of the Holy Spirit and the Light of Jesus Christ, that it is NOT works to make a choice to Believe in Jesus for salvaiton.
The Bible is extremely consistent in calling men to repent
to Repent and trust in Jesus Christ for salvation.
In Luke Chapter 10, a man tried to trick Jesus in how to get eternal life and Jesus asked him what he thought. The man told him to love the lord will all our heart, soul and mind...and Jesus said, you are right.
Now, if one is preprogrammed to believe as Calvinism teaches, then there woud be no need for Jesus to tell us Him or us that we must love God with all our heart, soul and mind.
And I have also prayed about it, diligently. You're looking at it all wrong. While some are ordained for salvation and others not, whenever I read a text that tells us to repent....it takes me back to the text that says "faith comes from hearing, hearing the word of God." We still must hear the word in order to believe, it is just that by the grace of God, we arewillingly and "irresistibly", able to respond to His commands, otherwise we would continue to walk in darkness and hate the light.
This is the way "I" see it....the way I have consolidated and compromised the many differing scriptures:
We do not know who are God's chosen, so we preach to everyone...in search of His sheep as if everyone can be saved. Because as it says in John, His sheep hear His voice. And so when they hear the word of God, it's like a light switch going off in their head and they can see the light from the darkness which they love. Without the regeneration of the HS, they cannot see the kingdom of God.
Well, it makes me so happy to hear that we have common ground on this matter.And really that's really matters most to me. I don't care if people are 5 point Calvinists or 5 point Armenians.If anyone can believe in those things which we agree upon:they are not far from the kingdom of God. People like Wesley, and Ravenhill (both Armenians) I can get along with and call my brother, because they know what they are (doctrine of total depravity) and they know who God is and they know how we are saved.
I say if a person doesn't see that their sins have seperated them from God, then they are not regenerated or Born Again.
I also believe that once a person is born again that they can't lose their salvation. We are bought with a price and there's nothing we can do to change that or walk away from.
I wouldn't call myself an Armenian because they believe a Believer can lose their salvation, and I am very passionette in that a true Believer doesn't lose or walk away from salvation.
And your right, Romans 9 doesn't disagree with John 3:16. Nothing in God's word disagrees. Would you like for me to give you a list of scripture that I believe supports the doctrine of grace/election? It's a long list.
The doctrine of Calvin isn't anything new. I could say it began with Christ and the apostle Paul...actually even as early as the OT. But after a few hundred years of this lost doctrine after Pentecost, Augustine was the first to bring it back...in the 4th or 5th century. Then Martin Luther also taught these things. And then after all of that...John Calvin, hundreds of years later.
If you can't love the God of Romans 9, then you can't love the God of John 3:16
That depents on what perspective you come from. I came out of the Mormon Church and they are adament that their church is the true church and Christ taught their doctrines from the beginning.
As far as Romans 9 goes, one has to understand the context of this chapter, and it doesn't disagree with John 3:16
@carpentersdaughter2 i understand you better now brother as your mormon background. maybe we need to ask the Holy Spirit to seach our hearts of some unclean baggage from our parts. Its spiritual you know.
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Linda, what incredible truth rightly divided. It is not in the words, but confession made by faith, believing through the blood of Jesus and His drawing by the Holy Spirit. Thank you for sharing this with the world. God bless you and know your ministry is from the heart of God.
I think people either demonize the sinners prayer or idolize it....both are wrong...God looks at the heart of the person...when a person comes to Christ, he come in prayer..and must repent and put his trust in Jesus....so there really is no sinners prayer worth any significance...all that matters is fruit.
I don't know what the sinners prayer consists of, but salvation is an act of God, a rebirth, a renewing and transformation of the mind. Yahweh looketh upon the heart. What God has cleansed, let no man call unclean. We do not know the wheat from the tares. I have fallen into the trap of debating semantics out of pride many times. If your words of prayer are not sincere they are worthless. If you are born again of the Spirit of God YOU WILL KNOW IT. Speak 2 him from the heart, eloquence not need
Jesus taught a couple of prayers, but I don't recall any being a sinners prayer.
I also don't recall the apostles or early church leaders doing it.
The sinners prayer is a trite little act to give confidence to the person trying to lead someone to Christ that they actually accomplished something. It is people looking for outward confirmation.
But we are told the only confirmation is the way in which people live.
I used to go out and street evangelize once a week with pastors and people from a small core area church. We'd come back and talk about what happened and record the names of people who accepted Christ and said the sinners prayer.
What a load of BS that was. These people were not saved because they confessed Christ after a 10 or 15 minute discussion followed by a prayer.
I agree with what you say about the street preaching and people saying a prayer, but here was my point in the video.
The words themselves are not evil, but what's wrong are pastors and others saying, all you have to do is say these words. There are thousands of true Christians who have said those words and are saved.
The trinity is not mentioned in scripture either, but we know that God is a triune God. The same here, when we come to Christ, we have to use words don't we?
Good job buddy, i completely agree. I'm glad you cleared that up because Paul Washer never said its evil, it can be dangerous if people don't explain the gospel right, but the "sinner's prayer" isn't completely bad.
Linda, as usual you present the truth in a simple, yet elegant fashion :)
I prayed the sinners prayer, but with my own words so to speak and I prayed from the heart accepting Jesus as my saviour and knowing with my whole heart that I am saved and believe in the gospel; that Jesus is God :)
I really enjoy Paul Washers sermons, but I am learning that he may be a Calvinist. I am not sure of this though, as I have to check this out.
But his sermons are very good and it makes a Christian really think about if they are committed to Christ or not. He talks about those who just say the words of the sinners prayer but have no fruit in their life to show they are really saved. Many pastors are saying just say these words and you will be saved. But it more then words, its the heart too.
Linda, Paul Washer is most definitely a Calvinist and comes from that theological perspective. Where God only loves some and rejects everyone else and no one can give their heart to the Lord, which Calvinist believe is works. I personally disagree with much he has to say because it is based so much on emotion and works in my opinion. We are saved through faith not how guilty we feel.
Linda, just because someone does not have fruit in their lives does not always mean they are not saved. Many come to faith in Christ but are never taught or discipled correctly. Paul even talked about those in the church he started in Corinth they acted like the world. He didnt accuse them of not being saved he started teaching them who they were in Christ. The Galatians aborted grace in their lives when they embraced legalism and Paul had to correct them.
I agree but we have so many fruit inspectors today who might not notice it and declare the person a sinner when in fact he is nothing more than an unlearned believer who no one has trained in the word of God.
Linda, if you visit "LaneCh" channel he is a hard core Calvinist and he knows for a fact PW is a Calvinist and if you ask him he could probaly point you to the videos he has that would prove the point. Dave Hunt has an excellent exspose on the dangers of Calvinism and theres another video circulating called Calve Islam or something like that which compares Calvinism and Isalm which both came on the scene historicaly at the same time, Very fascinating watch if you ask me.
You know, I've watched many good videos from LaneCh, but it just doesn't occur to me that some may be calvinist. It's a sad thing because if Calvinism is a true teaching, then how in the world can they know they have been chosen or not? There's no way for them to know, and I believe our salvation is an assurance that we can have while we are alive. I beleive it is a gross misunderstanding of predestination and election.
Calvinism has grown very popular of late and most Christians getting into it just have no clue how dangerous it is or the damage they will do to their faith.
I know it's not on how guilty we feel, but you do have to admit that if a person can go through life, do deliberate sins without conviction of the Holy Spirit, then chances are, there was never a birth to begin with.
Linda, I wouldn't disagree with that at all but I also understand that there are many believers who have never been taught how to overcome the flesh or win over sin. They try but fail because they never been taught, being convicted is one thing appropriating grace to live free of sin is another and sadly the church world teaches many times a discipline not based on grace but ones one of self determination. Add in legalism which will even complicate the process because the law activates sin.
Unfortunately there are way too many Christian churches that legalestic like you say. Unfortunately, there are many churches that don't teach the flock on how to use the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome sin too.
Like I say, in these matters, only God knows who is saved and who isn't.
Linda, I would agree. I have met people in unbiblical churches looking for God and not finding him. I could even say the same about Biblical churches too. But in all my years I have run into people that I believe are saved but just never taught correctly and they struggle with living for Christ. Babies need nuturing and love they don't grow up over night, none of us did.
silence, it is not difficult to know wither you are saved or not! The scriptures tell us we can have an assurance of salvation. Plus Jesus said he would never leave us and he didn't say he would leave if you sinned. God is faithful even when you are not, his faithfulness does not change according to our failures.
All repentance means is to change your mind, it is faith not works or keeping the law that saves us or maintains our salvation.
JuddGregg , no i dont question my salvation , dont misunderstand my question !!!!!!!
Gos is Faithful , He never leaves nor forsakes us , His Love is unconditional and unending , He does not want anyone to perish but have eternal life. I am saved.Jesus wants to save everybody.
What i meant is sinners prayer is not that evil , its a basic prayer expecting forgivness and deliverance from God.
Jesus Christ is dwelling in me , i am saved !!!!!!
silence, I made my comment based on waht you posted when you said, "know one can know for sure if they are saved" I noticed you have removed that comment but that is what I was addressing.
The big danger with the sinners prayer is the misuse of the salvation message by lukewarm Christians attempting to save people by telling them all they have to do is 'say this prayer' and you'll be saved.
They have no concept of a personal relationship with Christ and they have lost sight of genuine and continued repentance, discipline and reverence for God. They have abstract head knowledge of taking up their crosses and following Christ.
They know ABOUT Jesus but are married to the world.
Aus, you are expecting maturity from a baby Christian it doesn't work that way. Paul spoke about milk & meat, a baby isn't responsible when born it needs love, care and nurturing and then grows up to be mature and responsible adult. This is true for those who are newly born again, they need to be fed, encouraged and loved because they are going to make mistakes. Reverence, relationship etc is something we grow into. Just because some don't isn't that they were not saved just bad discipleship.
I agree with you about bad discipleship but the issue here is not one of being saved. It is about fast food 'Christianity' and quick 'converts' being lead into a worldly trap by worldly churches looking to fill the seats. The sinners prayer is not the problem but is a symptom.
A person who genuinely embraces Jesus will do all they can to develop a personal relationship with Him and they will be completely transformed not by a prayer but by the Holy Spirit.
.....continued from previous reply.... If their prayers are a result of that transformation, then that is wonderful but too many people put the cart before the horse. A prayer doesn't do the saving. It should be a response to salvation.
Aus, Rom 10 tells us whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. If that happens in a prayer fine but one believes first and then they are a new creation in Christ, no one is transformed before they are saved.
Aus, I agree in part but not completely there is plenty of scriptural evidence to support that if one isn't taught the word they won't grow up as they should in Christ. Babies need love and nurturing, Paul said you are not ready for meat you still need milk. Jesus gave the church ministry gifts to help us all mature in Christ the Holy Spirit works together with those gifts not independently of.
Actually the transforming takes place when the mind is renewed. Rom 12
No argument with you there. Calling on the name of the Lord is something that happens with heartfelt conviction and genuine repentance. It is powerful and complete and will totally transform one's life in every way.
The fruits of such salvation are clear. The new Christian will crave personal communion and fellowship with Jesus Christ and will seek Him through prayer, study, fellowship with others and every other aspect of their life.
A point to consider, is that Paul Washer and many if not all the opponents to the sinners prayer come from the Reformed or Calvinist persuasion they do not believe a person can give their heart and life to the Lord. They believe it is God and God alone who does the saving without any cooperation from man at all. In essence they believe God makes man born-again first so he can believe the gospel where the Bible does not teach that. The argument you are making is sound and Biblical!
Great message. I have prayed that prayer a bunch of times. Christians aren't perfect but they do have the promise of being perfected in Christ. The work which He has started, He will perform it until His return.
Rom 10:13 For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without preaching?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace and bring glad tidings of good things!"
I agree with you in this video. People say the sinners prayer is not biblical and as the prayer is not in the bible the concept is. I am very sick of these so called christians condeming things that dont apeal to them.
well it is in john chapter 3 Jesus tells us to be born again. Romans 10 says if call upon the name of the lord you will be saved. It also says if you confess with your mouth and believe with your heart . You see it is there and I am tired of people saying it is not. I bet most of the people that are down on the sinners prayer prayed one to get saved
I dont ever tell people to pray to ask Jesus into their heart but I ask if they want to pray to recieve Jesus as Lord and savior. You see It is in the bible to recieve him > It is in 1 or 2 corinthians I cant remember the exact adress.
Please read John chapter 3 again, the Lord Jesus does not tell us" to be born again", He says you "must be born again". He is not commanding, He is making a statement. The new birth is something that God does, there is nothing you can do to cause yourself to be born again. Just like physical birth, is was all up to your parents, so it is the same with spiritual birth, you cannot do anything to be born of God.
pretty soon christians are gonna act as catholics,, making people learned, so many things and go truh rituals,, that is not the way... salvation is personal, is like asking your your girlfriend to marry you , each does it own way,,, like this guy says is no the woords but the hart
albusai 2 weeks ago
and thats the big difference... you repented.... I was just wanting a "get out of Hell free" card. No repentance... just didnt like the idea of hell. If saying some words kept me from hell then I was all for it. But in my heart I still wanted my own way. And yes i was "sincere" i sincerely didnt want to go to hell... I just didnt sincerly want to follow God at that time in my life.
preciousone1962 1 year ago
@preciousone1962 I understand. I'm glad that you are walking with the Lord now.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
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preciousone1962 1 year ago
I said the words when I was 8 yrs old, but i did not become God's child till I was 37 yrs old, and realized that niether God nor His Love were in my heart... that I had not seen it, wasnt sure if it was real, but I didnt have it and i needed God and His love desperatly
Its the honest fervernt cry from the heart for Him that God hears... not the words themselves.
preciousone1962 1 year ago
@preciousone1962 I was about that age too, but my pastor told me that my sins are keeping me from God, and if I wanted to be saved, I must repent and put my faith in Jesus. I did that and tried to live a Godly life, but I fell so much.
I know that I was born again that day, but didn't realize what a walk with Jesus meant. The churches I went to never taught me much of any thing, so I just went my own way for a while. But the Holy Spirit convicted me, and I came running back to Jesus.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
For By Grace (Gods power to transform the heart) ye are saved Through Faith (your choice to believe and put your love,hope and trust in) and that not of yourselves (your own ability), Its is a gift of God ( mercy and love demonstrated through Christ death on the cross) not of works(no act, deed, way of man) lest any man should boast
preciousone1962 1 year ago
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preciousone1962 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 You see, men are dead in their sins, but the work of the Holy Spirit opens the eyes of men to see that they need God in their lives. The biggest problem Calvinist have is that they have been engrained to believe that free will doesn't exist.
Right from the Garden free will has been with us..free will is a gift too from God, and when we use that free will, we are not doing works when we finally see by the work of the Holy Spirit, that we need God. This is not works!!!
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
HOW MANY PEOPLE MUST YOU LIE TO? HOW MANY MUST SUFFER BECAUSE OF YOU AND YOUR LIES! ENOUGH!
Domodeath 1 year ago
@Domodeath
Acts 16:30-31 ...“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved...”
As you can see they inquired first. And Paul told them what to do. Now look at the order by which Paul states one do to be saved.
2 Corinthians 7:10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation...
This Godly sorrow comes from the work of the Holy Spirit which causes us to repent and Believe.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Thats the problem! THERE IS NO GODLY SORROW! Its just some 4 or five step thing, most people saying that prayer don't realize how pitiful, hopeless, wicked protest and weak they are to a HOLY RIGHTEOUS GOD, but they say they deserve to go to Hell anyway... True repentance leads to True salvation, with evidence the person has Truly been saved, no four or five "things God wants you to know" is going to help them Truly realize this!
Domodeath 1 year ago
Paul Washer is not accusing the "sinners prayer" as being something that SURELY WITH NOT get you saved. No, he clearly states that THE GENUINES of that prayer, the way you can verify it was natural and real, and not some words, is that the man's life will be radically changed (the born-again experience). No preacher should call people to the sinners prayer, they have to let the Holy Spirit to drive themselvs alone to that prayer. A prayer has to be prayed, not spoken or repeated.
fakirJ 1 year ago
@fakirJ I thought this too of Paul Washer. I had him in my favorites, that is, until I heard him speak more. He is a hypercalvinist. He told this young man that NO ONE can come to Christ, that Christ has to choose them in order to be saved. That's when I deleted all my Washer videos.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 a 2 year old child holds on to someone's finger. that man starts spinning, can the child still hold on to his finger? but if the man grabs hold of that child's hand, starts spinning, has he not the power to still hold him while spinning? the same with being saved. -> John 1:12-13(nor of the will of man) ; John 6:44 ; Romans 9:16. This is the Scripture brother, I tell you what, Paul Washer is not the one you stand against, Scripture is that which you stand against.
fakirJ 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 "This is the Scripture sister" * ^^ sorry
anyways, don't get me wrong, i may seem harsh when i try explaining something... but in no way do i want this disscution to degenerate into a wrangle, so pardon my "style" if you find it offending sometimes, i don't mean it. the most important thing is that however, whenever, whereever you were saved, the genuines of that moment is that you continue in your walk with Jesus, and your life is totally changed.
fakirJ 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 That's true though.
"And he said, “This is why I told you that NO ONE CAME COME TO ME unless it is granted him by the Father.”-Jesus Christ (John 6:65 )
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."John 6:44
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 The Father draws us by the Power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts men of sin, and shows the Light of Jesus Christ. Putting faith in Christ is not a work, but a gift that is given to us to be able to make our own choice.
Since there is free will to sin, there is free will to accept God's invitation to salvation.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Your comment was so true until the last part.My friend, the Bible does not say we sin by our own free will.It says we are born in sin, slaves of sin, dead in sin, and it's all we've ever known.I don't choose to be a sinner, I am born one.
And Yes, God draws us and saves us by himself, it is a work of him.Salvation is a work of him and he draws whomever he wills.
I think you confuse will and free will.We're not robots but we certainly cannot see if we are blind.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 So, what I hear you saying is that men are so evil that they don't want God, so God has to force Himself upon them to love Him against their will.
So, I see that you don't love God of your own will but out of programing that's been put into you by God, you now love him.
I can honestly say that what I hear you saying is that man can never love God on his own, so the only way that man can be saved is when God forces them against their will to love him.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 It's not force, it's called regeneration whereby God changes the heart of a wicked person..that does not mean he makes them into a robot.Their eyes are opened from their blindness so that they might see their need for him and he draws the sinners unto himself.Their love for them grows more and more as they get to know him.Now that they are converted and born again, they no longer are a slave to their sin but are free to follow hard after Christ.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 Calvinism teaches that man is so wicked that he does not seek God. That man is dead and dead men can't make choices.
You can't have it both ways....if man is so wicked that he will not make a choice for God, there is no other choice from God but to force that person to believe...like I said you can't have it both ways.
Yes, it is regeneration, and it's from the Holy Spirit, but there is nothing in scripture that free will doesn't exist.
A
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Yes, cause that is what the Bible teaches.And like I said, it's not force, it is regeneration and after one is regenerated, they no longer are dead in sin but see their need for Christ...they don't come to him grudgingly like some kind of slave, not really wanting to obey but their hearts are literally changed to want him! That is the miracle here!
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 Here's what you don't see...Calvinism teaches that men hate God, and men don't want God. The only way man can love God is to be taken against his will, which you've already said that he hates God, and forces him.
Now call it what you will but regeneration is not what it is, especially if you are going to hold on to the teaching that man hates God so much and that he doesn't want to have anything to do with God. You can't call it anything else, it's being forced to love God.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Not taking him against his will, no one becomes a Christian by still hating God,HE REGENERATES THEIR HEARTS AND BRINGS THEM BACK TO LIFE so the person then sees his need for God and is CHANGED FROM HIS FORMER DEAD STATE.
it is regeneration, yes man is naturally not good and does not seek God(the Bible says that) and so it takes a work of the Spirit to change, regenerate their hearts that they not only see the need of God, but they want him.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 If the person sees their need for God, then they must make a choice to beleive in God.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 we cannot want God if we are spiritually dead....so it is a miracle and a work of God when he takes a sinner, opens their eyes, changes their heart, draws them unto himself, and saves them..not because of anything they've done but because God is rich in mercy and in grace
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 Let me ask you this...How can it be a miracle if God forces man to love Him? Where is the miracle in that? Since man is so evil that he hates God and doesn't want to have anything to do with Him, the only way to be saved is by force feeding the man against his will to love Him.
I just don't see the miracle in this.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 And there is a great miracle in God taking a desperately wicked heart of stone and replacing it with a heart of flesh.
Besides, since when is it okay to dismiss a doctrine so clear in scripture because it does not fit our criteria and/or understanding? May the Lord bless and lead you to see...I suggest you would pray about this.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 The doctrine of Calvinism is what's bad. Yes, we are saved by Grace alone, and having free will to choose God after being convicted by the Holy Spirit is not a work for salvation.
I have spoken to many Calvinists and I took on a deep study of Calvinism, and it's so easy to see that God gave man a free will...we see this throughout the whole bible. Calvinism is not scriptural. Not to the degree that Calvinism teaches.
Grace yes, eternal security, yes,
continued
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
con't. 2
man is wicked, Yes. Like I said, if man is so wicked that he will never want God, then according to Calvinism, God forces man to love him.....
But you have to look at this too....if man doesn't desire to know God, then why are there so many religions where men want to know God? I see regeneration from people in the Mormon church. They have a strong love for Jesus, even though it is the wrong Jesus...
Men do seek God, false religions show this.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Read Romans 3, it claims no one does good and seeks after God, no one understands, all have become worthless, and there is no fear of God before their eyes.How then, if no one seeks God, does a Christian seek him in order to be saved?God first has sought after them.Read also Romans 9, God says he has mercy ON WHOM HE WILLS and hardens WHOM HE WILLS.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 The Holy Spirit convicts men of their sins, and shows them that their own sin is keeping them from God. It is not a work, when the Holy Spirit opens the eyes of a person and they make that choice to believe or not to believe.
There is no mercy when God forces a person to believe. Since you say man can not come to God because he has no free will, then the only other alternative is to be forced....that's not grace, that's being forced feed against the will of that person.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 The holy Spirit sure does convict, amen.And God sure does draw the once dead in sin sinner unto himself and turns their heart to come.And then God saves.It's a work of his.There is mercy on him saving a person considering he is not obligated to and we certainly do not deserve salvation.Again, are you going to reject what scripture clearly teaches b/c it does not fit your criteria.Make no mistake, NO ONE SEEKS AFTER GOD IN THEIR CARNAL STATE.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 I don't reject Christ, I reject the teachings of John Calvin, just as I reject the teachings of Joseph Smith. I have Mormons tell me all the time that I am rejecting the truth. It doesn't matter that at one point in my life I was a Mormon. I know their teachings, and when studying the bible, I see how horriffic that church is. yet these men and women tell me I am rejecting scripture, just as you have.
No sir, it's the teachings I reject, not the Bible.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 You reject what the Bible teaches if you reject that no one seeks after God.It is clearly state in there.Would you like for me to quote the direct quote to you?Election is also clearly evident.This is not about John Calvin, these truths have long existed before he was ever born, he just reaffirmed them.Would you like for me to send you links showing that the early church believed this as well and refuted Armenian concepts?
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 I never said no one seeks after God, that is what you think I Beleive. I do beleive that. You talk like a cultist, with your elite doctrines, and you can't see it, just as the Mormons can't see the lies of Joseph Smith.
I am NOT an Armenian either. I am a Born Again Christian in Jesus Christ.
I reject John Calvins interperation. Anytime anyone believes a mans interperation of the bible, it is called a cult, and Calvinism is a cult all of it's own.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Yet many end up believing by his grace.Calvinism or not, predestination is clear in the Bible.No doubt people love the gods they create in their minds, but if someone where to preach the God of the Bible to them, they would not love him in their dead state.No one seeks after the true Living God, idols sure, but not a Holy God.
Besides, why are you flat out denying what the Bible says?
read Romans 3,IT SAYS NO ONE SEEKS AFTER GOD!! That's not my opinion, it's scripture
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 Why not read Romans 8 and you will see there how Paul states that because God FOREKNEW, He predestined us. Based on God's foreknowledge, God predestined us to be His children.
A better understanding of predestination comes from reading Romans 8 first. Otherwise the whole concept of Calvinism is based only on Romans 9...context, context, and context.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Yes, he foreknew as in knew us before hand.Remember what he said to Jeremiah the prophet? "BEFORE I formed you in the womb, I KNEW you" Look at Romans 11:2, the word "foreknew" is used there and yet not in context of him knowing Israel would choose him...neither is that the context is Romans 8.
Romans 8 is a great chapter to point out election, so is Romans 9, John 6, John 10, ect. It's not based on one scripture alone.may the Lord give you understanding.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 The Holy Spirit has already given me understanding. you know the Mormons take that verse in Romans to mean that we were in Heaven before we came to earth...I reject that notion too as it is false.
Foreknew that some would put their faith in Christ, and it is NOT WORKS when God gave us the ability to choose.
You just can't see how you make God out to be. He doesn't force Himself upon men, what the Holy Spirit does is open the eyes of men to see and Beleive or reject Him.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Anyways, I do not wish to get into a fight with you, so I am stopping here.May the Lord Jesus Christ shed his grace upon you and keep you for his own glory.
Have a great day
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 by the way, here are some scriptures to leave you off with:
"even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love"Ephesians 1:4
"And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”John 6:65
"he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, bu taccording to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit," Ti 3:5
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 I totally agree with those scriptures, I just reject Calvin's interperation of them.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 "At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that YOU HAVE HIDDEN things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will"Matthew 11:25-26
"But what is God’s reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. " Romans 11:4-5
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 Don't have a problem with those scriptures, I totally believe what they say. I reject Calvins interperation of them. John Calvin who murdered hundreds of souls for not believing in his doctrine shows quite cleary that this man had the mindset of a cult leader.
Stop promoting the works of John Calvin, who murdered hundreds of people for not believing his teachings.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 "....But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then?Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened," Romans 11:6-7
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 Presdestination is explained in Romans 8, so yes, I believe what the Bible says about predestination, not Calvins interperation of it.
I NEVER DENIED ROMANS 3. So please stop acting like I have. It's Calvins interperation that I reject.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 There is no grace in this at all. What if I came and kidnapped you, and told you, now, you are going to love me, and I give you a shot of love potion into your arm..then you will love me...not because you want to love me but because I forced you to love me. You did not come to me by your own free will, and you didn't love me on your own free will..the only reason you love me is because I made you love me.
This is the bottom line of calvinism!!!!!
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 It is grace.This has nothing to do with the kidnapping scenario..If you kidnapped me and tried to maintain a loving relationship with me even though I did not want to, that would be something like force.That is NOT the same as God changing someone's heart so that they would want to come to him and whoever comes to him, he will in no likewise cast out.it is truly being made new and renewed, awakened to the truth and lead to repentance and faith by grace.
GodLovesUs100 1 year ago
@GodLovesUs100 What you say about God not forcing us is true, but what you can't see that Calvinism teaches that men are so wicked that they don't want God. Now if men are so wicked that they don't want God, and the only way to save them is to force them against their will to love Him. This is what you can't comprehend.
You can't have it both ways. Calvinism says men will not come to God, so the only way, according to calvinism would be to force them.
continued
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
I have no problem with the sinner's prayer if it is in the Spirit, ie done under conviction prduced by encounter with the Holy Spirit of Christ.
If it is not it is merely anothr mantra. But the same goes for Wsher's endless ranting about repentance. if a person "repents" but not under the Spirits leading it too ismeaningless
Washer is a hate filled legalistic bigot who thinks feeling guilty is the same as coming under conviction. it is not, that is why his screaming is counterproductive
Strefanash 1 year ago
@Strefanash The problem with Paul Washer is that he's a hypercalvinist. His belief is that if you ask Christ into your life and you are sincer, you still aren't saved. Unless one is chosen by God, one can repent till hell freezes over and they still wouln't be saved.
There's no room for free will in the Calvinist world.
We are either robots who have flesh or we are human beings with a free will to resond to God's love. Washer does not beleive anyone can respont on their own.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
One other thing; A hyper-calvinist claim you made in the comment section is someone who doesn't believe they need to preach the Gospel because God has already made His choice. Please don't throw that term around at someone who believes in the doctrine of sovereign grace and still preaches the Gospel on the streets as well as the pulpit, especially since so many professing Christians do not.
MustardSeedish 1 year ago
@MustardSeedish I heard in another video Paul Washer telling a young man that no one can come to Christ, no one, he has to be chosen by God in order to be saved. This is hypercalvinism. I was very disappointed when I heard him say this as I had so many of his videos. There's soverign grace and then there's the hypercalvinist view that God chooses some for hell and some for salvation for HIs glory.
To throw out the sinners prayer as Washer does is throwing any chance of someone accepting Jesus
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter There are too many verses to list but the main one that comes to my mind is "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren" Rom 8:29 I think you need to do more research biblically and look up what hyper-Calvinism. He preaches the Gospel as a ministry thus nullifies him as a hyper Calvinist. Calvinist yes; hyper one no.
MustardSeedish 1 year ago
@MustardSeedish God knew who would come to Him because of His Foreknowledge. Now even hypercalvinist believe that the gospel has to be preached to reach those who were chosen by God.
even calvinist don't believe that man has free will to come to God, even after the Holy Spirit convicts men.
We are ordained because of God's foreknowledge and this is where the Calvinist disagrees with.
I've talked to hundreds of Calvinist here on YT,
continued
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
con't. 2
And every single one of them told me that God chooses men for salvation, NOT that men get convicted of their sins and repent and put their faith in Jesus, no, it's God chooses them.
they do not believe in free will. There are many holes to this belief and causes men to be robots for God, rather then being convicted and repenting. If that's the case, then those who are chosen are nothing more then fleshy robots who obey because they've been chosen.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 I'm not going to defend a doctrine and that is really not the issue. If you do a search on YT "Calvinism is not the Issue" (I think that's what it's called), it is a short excerpt of how he feels about Calvinism. I think you need to give this guy a break. He is doing a good work, much like my "free will" brothers Ravenhill and Wesley.
MustardSeedish 1 year ago
@MustardSeedish Either he has changed his views or this video you speak of is before he became a hypercalvinist. All I know is what I watched him say to a young man that we don't have free will, that God picks some for salvation while allowing others to go to hell. I've talked to other Calvinist who've seen this video and totally agree that this is just plain calvinism, not even hypercalvinism.
If he's changed his views then I need to know about it, otherwise, the video stays up.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 No doubt he is a Calvinist, but he does not make that his mission. I'm pretty sure I've seen the video you’re referring to, and what he said is not hyper-Calvinism. I think you need to do more research of the term because it is falsely accusing your brother. Hyper-Calvinist denies the need to preach the Gospel and heresy.
BTW, the video you saw was after, because when he was talking to the young man at "Deeper" Conference 10/08 and the 10 Indictments was 11/08.
MustardSeedish 1 year ago
@MustardSeedish I went to his site to see if anything has changed and it hasn't. I watched that video and it's not long enough to make any decision. I tried looking for that video on his site so I could hear the whole thing, but in that little time allowed, he doesn't speak against Calvinism.
Here's his statement of faith on election:
continued
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
con't. 2
ELECTION. Election is God's eternal choice of some persons unto everlasting life-- not because of foreseen merit in them, but of his mere mercy in Christ-- in consequence of which choice they are called, justified and glorified.
this is calvinism to the core, that man can not repent and come to Christ even with the work of the Holy Spirit. Men are chosen, and that's how they get saved, not that the Holy Spirit convicts a man and then he repents and places faith in Jesus.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding sister. There are a lot of jerks here on YT that are misrepresenting the doctrine. I wish people would just get to the issue of regeneration and I think that is what PW's message is all about regardless of his doctrine. There is another quick video if you type "Are you a calvinist? Paul Washer" God bless you.
MustardSeedish 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 The video is called Ten Indictments {A Historical 21st Century Message}. It's long, but I encourge you to try and listen without any preconceived philosophies, I think as a Christian who should be very concerned about the state of our Laodicea culture may find it very enlightening.
MustardSeedish 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 A true Calvinist will believe in what Calvin taught which is the famous TULIP acronym. I would recommend you Google Calvinism and then hyper Calvinism.
MustardSeedish 1 year ago
Dear Sister, The sinner's prayer, if is done as a method of salvation rather than a result of salvation, is no more man made than the infant baptism of Rome. I respect Washer's plea for all of us to examine this method that has swept our land for the last 100 years and deluted millions of people into thinking they are saved and possibly never open to a true Gospel because they no longer see a need for grace. Do I believe everyone who said the prayer is not saved, no; and neither does PW.
MustardSeedish 1 year ago
Comment removed
MustardSeedish 1 year ago
Good point. I would have to say you were more than gracious in your video. To every clown monkey who came up with this idea, let me say this. How many will be saved who have NOT repented and called on the Name of Jesus for forgiveness and Salvation. Let me help. ZERO, NONE, ZIP, NADA, not UNO. All who can not explain THE TRUTH without causing confusion is not sent from God, is not anointed to teach, so they had best shut up shutting up. Exalting men, not the best of ideas.
ALittleBrother 1 year ago
Please you have never proof your claim about the sinners prayer from scripture therefore your claim is a lie. its a man made method by devil. you cannot defend the devil because hell exist bro
fijiization 1 year ago
@fijiization Please look at my name again, and don't call me bro again, please.
What is the sinners prayer? That one realizes that are a sinner before God., The sinner repents, and puts their faith in Jesus Christ.
You want to think that is from the devil? Just go ahead, but you don't have a clue what a Christian is.
You put more faith in Paul Washer then Jesus Christ. Why not just tithe to Paul Washer, since he seems to be your idol.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
What Paul Washer says is the truth........ receiving or inviting Jesus in the heart is a canality man made method.
The walk with our LORD is a personal intimacy relationship. It is a walk knowing each other intimately/a daily communion and love. It is a daily die to the flesh and submit to His Lordship every day.
fijiization 1 year ago
@fijiization Limited atonement is from Satan himself. God has said and called men to repent. He made a way for all mankind, not just some. We are not robots who have been programed to love God, but because of the power of the Holy Spirit, we see our sins, and we repent because of what Jesus did for us.
Paul Washer is a hypercalvinist, which goes totally against scripture.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
show your face devil
fijiization 1 year ago
@fijiization You're one sick puppy.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 where in the Scripture that Jesus says that or his disciples.The message was REPENT and BELIEVE for the Kingdom of GOD is at hand. We dont receive Jesus in our hearts but the HOLY SPIRIT dwells in us. If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and Believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. It doesnt says receive or invite Him in your heart. Make your election sure.
fijiization 1 year ago
@fijiization Either you are a hypercalvinist like Paul Washer is, or you don't realize what this man teaches. He teaches that God picked and choosed who He would save, and allow all others to go to hell. This is so far against what the Bible teaches, and you either are a hypercalvinist yourself, or you just don't realzie what this man is.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 not all mankind will go to heaven. God have mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and he hardened whom he wants to hardened. He made Pharaoh for His glory to show His power. The road to heaven is narrow and the gate is narrow
fijiization 1 year ago
@fijiization I'm really tired of talking to such ignorance as yourself. You worship Paul Washer, you believe his lies, and you defend him more then Jesus Christ.
How sad.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@fijiization This all goes back to the garden. God gave Adam and Eve a choice. The choice to eat from the tree of knowledge. Paul Washer teaches that men don't have a choice when it comes to salvation. This is a lie from the pits of hell.
The bible is very clear that God calls men to repent, all men. this is consistent throughout the Bible, and Paul Washer teaches against the bible when it comes to salvation.
God does not say, I choose you for hell as Paul Washer teaches.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@fijiization I have to say, God didn't say He "made" Pharaoh to show His power. He said He raised up Pharaoh to show His power. In other words, Pharaoh was already a hardened man. God used his hard heart to show His glory to the world.
theofficenetmusician 1 year ago
John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
My Bible commentary:
"Jesus' point was that just as the wind cannot be controlled or understood by human beings but its effects can be witnessed, so also it is with the Holy Spirit. He cannot be controlled or understood, but the proof of His work is apparent. Where the Spirit works, there is undeniable and unmistakable evidence."
crem004 2 years ago
I have no arguement on what you say here. I agree.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Good video, anybody evagelizing should exhort people to repent of sin and place their trust in Christ after they proclaimed the gospel, not exort them to say a prayer. A person truly being drawn by the Holy Spirit will call upon God to have mercy on them.
qptqpt 2 years ago
Amen.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
The key word here is "repentance". The sinner prayer is not a "magical sentence" that someone says or repeats. But is a guide just like the prayer Jesus tought to his disciples.
We are saved by grace alone and it happens when we truly confess and repent of our sin (turning away and hating sin). Wether this happened at any given point in someone's life. This is the core of the message of Paul Washer. I believe he nailed it. Blessings to all!
onairproductions 2 years ago
I totally agree with you one hundred percent. Neither are these words meaningless if the person says these words when they mean it with a sorowful heart.
I use to like Paul Washer but when I heard him say that God chooses some men for hell, I had to say, that's it. I don't believe that one bit.
God bless
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Prov 16:4, 9 The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom. . . A man's heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
....just sayin. Pray about it. There's more to God than most think.
crem004 2 years ago
These text boxes are too small to say what needs to be said. I will try to make this brief.
Not only have I prayed about it, but cried over it, begged God to show me if this is His truth. I studed like a Berean, and the more I prayed and studied, the more the Holy Spirit showed me that through the power of the Holy Spirit and the Light of Jesus Christ, that it is NOT works to make a choice to Believe in Jesus for salvaiton.
The Bible is extremely consistent in calling men to repent
cont.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
cont. 2
to Repent and trust in Jesus Christ for salvation.
In Luke Chapter 10, a man tried to trick Jesus in how to get eternal life and Jesus asked him what he thought. The man told him to love the lord will all our heart, soul and mind...and Jesus said, you are right.
Now, if one is preprogrammed to believe as Calvinism teaches, then there woud be no need for Jesus to tell us Him or us that we must love God with all our heart, soul and mind.
continued.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
continued 3
There are way too many scriptures thoughout the Bible that calls men to repent and believe.
Each of us has a choice, and this choice is not works, but another gift that God has given to man so he can either believe or reject God.
I know you don't see it that way, but I will say to you asyou did to me....pray about it, and also study God's word.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
And I have also prayed about it, diligently. You're looking at it all wrong. While some are ordained for salvation and others not, whenever I read a text that tells us to repent....it takes me back to the text that says "faith comes from hearing, hearing the word of God." We still must hear the word in order to believe, it is just that by the grace of God, we arewillingly and "irresistibly", able to respond to His commands, otherwise we would continue to walk in darkness and hate the light.
crem004 2 years ago
cont 2
We have a heart of stone that will not respond to God's word and God's call. There's a modern day saying: You must believe to be born-again.
Many years ago they taught: You must be born-again to believe.
Read Ezekiel 36:22-29 and notice all of the "I will" proclamations. This is such a glorious text...it is the foundation of regeneration.
crem004 2 years ago
There is NO scripture that says we are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO depraved that we cannot repsond to God's call.
Yes, we are depraved, but God has given us the free gift of Choice.
Now the twisting of the words born again have been twisted to it's own destruction.
A Believer in regenerated after the Holy Spirit enters them.
You are nothing but a robot with programming and there is no scriptural proof for that.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
/watch?v=fqSOFpP-Tq4&feature=related
This YT video, given by John Piper, teaches the doctrine of total depravity well. Please, take a look.
crem004 2 years ago
This is the way "I" see it....the way I have consolidated and compromised the many differing scriptures:
We do not know who are God's chosen, so we preach to everyone...in search of His sheep as if everyone can be saved. Because as it says in John, His sheep hear His voice. And so when they hear the word of God, it's like a light switch going off in their head and they can see the light from the darkness which they love. Without the regeneration of the HS, they cannot see the kingdom of God.
crem004 2 years ago
I agree that without the Holy Spirit a man can not see what Christ has done, or see that his own sins are keeping him from God.
But there is no scripture that says God says, hey you, you are going to hell because I choose not to choose you.
Yes, Jesus knows His sheep, and He knew before the foundation of this earth who would respond and who wouldn't.
Otherwise, you are nothing more then a computer that's been programmed into loving God.
continued.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
continued 2
you don't love God because He saved you from your sins, you love God because He programmed you to love him.
Where is the glory in that a creator programms His creation to love him, while not programming others to love hin?
You want me to believe as you, that God will infuse some to love and others to hell.
I have studied this and there is no scriptural ground for such a teaching.
.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Well, it makes me so happy to hear that we have common ground on this matter.And really that's really matters most to me. I don't care if people are 5 point Calvinists or 5 point Armenians.If anyone can believe in those things which we agree upon:they are not far from the kingdom of God. People like Wesley, and Ravenhill (both Armenians) I can get along with and call my brother, because they know what they are (doctrine of total depravity) and they know who God is and they know how we are saved.
crem004 2 years ago
I say if a person doesn't see that their sins have seperated them from God, then they are not regenerated or Born Again.
I also believe that once a person is born again that they can't lose their salvation. We are bought with a price and there's nothing we can do to change that or walk away from.
I wouldn't call myself an Armenian because they believe a Believer can lose their salvation, and I am very passionette in that a true Believer doesn't lose or walk away from salvation.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
I agree. He who began a good work will finish it.
And your right, Romans 9 doesn't disagree with John 3:16. Nothing in God's word disagrees. Would you like for me to give you a list of scripture that I believe supports the doctrine of grace/election? It's a long list.
crem004 2 years ago
You say I am looking at it all wrong, but the problem here is, I won't look at it through calvinist eyes.
I won't buy into this new doctrine from Calvin.
I am saved by God's grace, and don't try to take that away.
You know I know Satan tries to take away the joy of salvation and Calvinism comes to steal that away from people.
No one can come to God unless the HOly Soirit convicts them of sin and reveals to them what Christ has done.
I responded to God's call, and that's not works
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
The doctrine of Calvin isn't anything new. I could say it began with Christ and the apostle Paul...actually even as early as the OT. But after a few hundred years of this lost doctrine after Pentecost, Augustine was the first to bring it back...in the 4th or 5th century. Then Martin Luther also taught these things. And then after all of that...John Calvin, hundreds of years later.
If you can't love the God of Romans 9, then you can't love the God of John 3:16
crem004 2 years ago
***Romans 9 AND Ephesians 1 actually
crem004 2 years ago
That depents on what perspective you come from. I came out of the Mormon Church and they are adament that their church is the true church and Christ taught their doctrines from the beginning.
As far as Romans 9 goes, one has to understand the context of this chapter, and it doesn't disagree with John 3:16
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
@carpentersdaughter2 you sound confuse please just ask the Holy Spirit because He is the spirit of Truth. Go before God and ask for help
fijiization 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 i understand you better now brother as your mormon background. maybe we need to ask the Holy Spirit to seach our hearts of some unclean baggage from our parts. Its spiritual you know.
fijiization 1 year ago
While not a formula, it would be hard to categorize the SP as evil. Is it in the Bible? No...well, not exactly...Psalm 51 is pretty durn close!
catholicexodus 2 years ago
Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
KJV
JimQualls 2 years ago
5 stars :)
daughterofMostHigh 2 years ago
Thank you and God bless.
Linda
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Linda, what incredible truth rightly divided. It is not in the words, but confession made by faith, believing through the blood of Jesus and His drawing by the Holy Spirit. Thank you for sharing this with the world. God bless you and know your ministry is from the heart of God.
Your Sister in Christ,
Linda
soundingjoy1 2 years ago
Thank you Linda for your kind words. I pray that every video will come from my heart by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
God bless you my friend,
Linda
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
My father-in-law was dying. he was an alcoholic and had done many bad things. when we visited him he had just come out of a drug induced coma.
He confessed everything he had done against us and asked our forgiveness. We told him that he had been forgiven long ago.
He said but they are still there. I said what. He said his sins were still on him like a burden.
We prayed the sinners prayer, and the burden was gone. He died in peace.
daphdong 2 years ago
Praise God!
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Praise Jesus Christ! I pray that God Bless you and your family!
SaintJohn86 2 years ago
I think people either demonize the sinners prayer or idolize it....both are wrong...God looks at the heart of the person...when a person comes to Christ, he come in prayer..and must repent and put his trust in Jesus....so there really is no sinners prayer worth any significance...all that matters is fruit.
GoodNews4You 2 years ago
i am sure there are people who genuinely said a prayer to accept Jesus ...and went on to become born again....
and so are people who say it like a mantra and are still not saved....
I think it should not be given much importance
GoodNews4You 2 years ago
I don't know what the sinners prayer consists of, but salvation is an act of God, a rebirth, a renewing and transformation of the mind. Yahweh looketh upon the heart. What God has cleansed, let no man call unclean. We do not know the wheat from the tares. I have fallen into the trap of debating semantics out of pride many times. If your words of prayer are not sincere they are worthless. If you are born again of the Spirit of God YOU WILL KNOW IT. Speak 2 him from the heart, eloquence not need
ATLANTABURNING 2 years ago
Jesus taught a couple of prayers, but I don't recall any being a sinners prayer.
I also don't recall the apostles or early church leaders doing it.
The sinners prayer is a trite little act to give confidence to the person trying to lead someone to Christ that they actually accomplished something. It is people looking for outward confirmation.
But we are told the only confirmation is the way in which people live.
con't
TrustinJC 2 years ago
pt 2
I used to go out and street evangelize once a week with pastors and people from a small core area church. We'd come back and talk about what happened and record the names of people who accepted Christ and said the sinners prayer.
What a load of BS that was. These people were not saved because they confessed Christ after a 10 or 15 minute discussion followed by a prayer.
TrustinJC 2 years ago
I agree with what you say about the street preaching and people saying a prayer, but here was my point in the video.
The words themselves are not evil, but what's wrong are pastors and others saying, all you have to do is say these words. There are thousands of true Christians who have said those words and are saved.
The trinity is not mentioned in scripture either, but we know that God is a triune God. The same here, when we come to Christ, we have to use words don't we?
continued...
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
continued...2
Didn't you confess your sins and tell Jesus you believe in Him? That's a sinners prayer....
The problem is the people who abuse and lead people to think they are saved when they aren't.
The words themselves should not be condemned...this was my point..
God bless,
Linda
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Good job buddy, i completely agree. I'm glad you cleared that up because Paul Washer never said its evil, it can be dangerous if people don't explain the gospel right, but the "sinner's prayer" isn't completely bad.
daltonward 2 years ago
lol @ the title
JermarParker 2 years ago
I believe that it was God who lead me to salvation, by His prompting and wooing :)
CDNHoneybee 2 years ago
Linda, as usual you present the truth in a simple, yet elegant fashion :)
I prayed the sinners prayer, but with my own words so to speak and I prayed from the heart accepting Jesus as my saviour and knowing with my whole heart that I am saved and believe in the gospel; that Jesus is God :)
CDNHoneybee 2 years ago
Thank you for the info. I'll check out some of his sermons.
tdoggyfizz 2 years ago
I have heard a lot about Paul Washer recently, but I don't know who he is and I am unfamiliar with his ministry.
tdoggyfizz 2 years ago
I really enjoy Paul Washers sermons, but I am learning that he may be a Calvinist. I am not sure of this though, as I have to check this out.
But his sermons are very good and it makes a Christian really think about if they are committed to Christ or not. He talks about those who just say the words of the sinners prayer but have no fruit in their life to show they are really saved. Many pastors are saying just say these words and you will be saved. But it more then words, its the heart too.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Linda, Paul Washer is most definitely a Calvinist and comes from that theological perspective. Where God only loves some and rejects everyone else and no one can give their heart to the Lord, which Calvinist believe is works. I personally disagree with much he has to say because it is based so much on emotion and works in my opinion. We are saved through faith not how guilty we feel.
JuddGregg 2 years ago
Linda, just because someone does not have fruit in their lives does not always mean they are not saved. Many come to faith in Christ but are never taught or discipled correctly. Paul even talked about those in the church he started in Corinth they acted like the world. He didnt accuse them of not being saved he started teaching them who they were in Christ. The Galatians aborted grace in their lives when they embraced legalism and Paul had to correct them.
JuddGregg 2 years ago
Agreed with that, but even for an immature Believer, there will be even a little bit of fruit. It may not be much but it's there.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
I agree but we have so many fruit inspectors today who might not notice it and declare the person a sinner when in fact he is nothing more than an unlearned believer who no one has trained in the word of God.
JuddGregg 2 years ago
Linda, if you visit "LaneCh" channel he is a hard core Calvinist and he knows for a fact PW is a Calvinist and if you ask him he could probaly point you to the videos he has that would prove the point. Dave Hunt has an excellent exspose on the dangers of Calvinism and theres another video circulating called Calve Islam or something like that which compares Calvinism and Isalm which both came on the scene historicaly at the same time, Very fascinating watch if you ask me.
JuddGregg 2 years ago
You know, I've watched many good videos from LaneCh, but it just doesn't occur to me that some may be calvinist. It's a sad thing because if Calvinism is a true teaching, then how in the world can they know they have been chosen or not? There's no way for them to know, and I believe our salvation is an assurance that we can have while we are alive. I beleive it is a gross misunderstanding of predestination and election.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Linda I couldn't agree more very well said.
Calvinism has grown very popular of late and most Christians getting into it just have no clue how dangerous it is or the damage they will do to their faith.
JuddGregg 2 years ago
I know it's not on how guilty we feel, but you do have to admit that if a person can go through life, do deliberate sins without conviction of the Holy Spirit, then chances are, there was never a birth to begin with.
But only God knows who saved and who isn't.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Linda, I wouldn't disagree with that at all but I also understand that there are many believers who have never been taught how to overcome the flesh or win over sin. They try but fail because they never been taught, being convicted is one thing appropriating grace to live free of sin is another and sadly the church world teaches many times a discipline not based on grace but ones one of self determination. Add in legalism which will even complicate the process because the law activates sin.
JuddGregg 2 years ago
Unfortunately there are way too many Christian churches that legalestic like you say. Unfortunately, there are many churches that don't teach the flock on how to use the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome sin too.
Like I say, in these matters, only God knows who is saved and who isn't.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Linda, I would agree. I have met people in unbiblical churches looking for God and not finding him. I could even say the same about Biblical churches too. But in all my years I have run into people that I believe are saved but just never taught correctly and they struggle with living for Christ. Babies need nuturing and love they don't grow up over night, none of us did.
JuddGregg 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
silencemz 2 years ago
silence, it is not difficult to know wither you are saved or not! The scriptures tell us we can have an assurance of salvation. Plus Jesus said he would never leave us and he didn't say he would leave if you sinned. God is faithful even when you are not, his faithfulness does not change according to our failures.
All repentance means is to change your mind, it is faith not works or keeping the law that saves us or maintains our salvation.
No wonder you question your salvation.
JuddGregg 2 years ago
JuddGregg , no i dont question my salvation , dont misunderstand my question !!!!!!!
Gos is Faithful , He never leaves nor forsakes us , His Love is unconditional and unending , He does not want anyone to perish but have eternal life. I am saved.Jesus wants to save everybody.
What i meant is sinners prayer is not that evil , its a basic prayer expecting forgivness and deliverance from God.
Jesus Christ is dwelling in me , i am saved !!!!!!
silencemz 2 years ago
silence, I made my comment based on waht you posted when you said, "know one can know for sure if they are saved" I noticed you have removed that comment but that is what I was addressing.
JuddGregg 2 years ago
The big danger with the sinners prayer is the misuse of the salvation message by lukewarm Christians attempting to save people by telling them all they have to do is 'say this prayer' and you'll be saved.
They have no concept of a personal relationship with Christ and they have lost sight of genuine and continued repentance, discipline and reverence for God. They have abstract head knowledge of taking up their crosses and following Christ.
They know ABOUT Jesus but are married to the world.
AusDisciple 2 years ago 6
Aus, you are expecting maturity from a baby Christian it doesn't work that way. Paul spoke about milk & meat, a baby isn't responsible when born it needs love, care and nurturing and then grows up to be mature and responsible adult. This is true for those who are newly born again, they need to be fed, encouraged and loved because they are going to make mistakes. Reverence, relationship etc is something we grow into. Just because some don't isn't that they were not saved just bad discipleship.
JuddGregg 2 years ago
JuddGregg,
I agree with you about bad discipleship but the issue here is not one of being saved. It is about fast food 'Christianity' and quick 'converts' being lead into a worldly trap by worldly churches looking to fill the seats. The sinners prayer is not the problem but is a symptom.
A person who genuinely embraces Jesus will do all they can to develop a personal relationship with Him and they will be completely transformed not by a prayer but by the Holy Spirit.
AusDisciple 2 years ago
.....continued from previous reply.... If their prayers are a result of that transformation, then that is wonderful but too many people put the cart before the horse. A prayer doesn't do the saving. It should be a response to salvation.
AusDisciple 2 years ago
Aus, Rom 10 tells us whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. If that happens in a prayer fine but one believes first and then they are a new creation in Christ, no one is transformed before they are saved.
JuddGregg 2 years ago
Aus, I agree in part but not completely there is plenty of scriptural evidence to support that if one isn't taught the word they won't grow up as they should in Christ. Babies need love and nurturing, Paul said you are not ready for meat you still need milk. Jesus gave the church ministry gifts to help us all mature in Christ the Holy Spirit works together with those gifts not independently of.
Actually the transforming takes place when the mind is renewed. Rom 12
JuddGregg 2 years ago
Judd,
No argument with you there. Calling on the name of the Lord is something that happens with heartfelt conviction and genuine repentance. It is powerful and complete and will totally transform one's life in every way.
The fruits of such salvation are clear. The new Christian will crave personal communion and fellowship with Jesus Christ and will seek Him through prayer, study, fellowship with others and every other aspect of their life.
AusDisciple 2 years ago
A point to consider, is that Paul Washer and many if not all the opponents to the sinners prayer come from the Reformed or Calvinist persuasion they do not believe a person can give their heart and life to the Lord. They believe it is God and God alone who does the saving without any cooperation from man at all. In essence they believe God makes man born-again first so he can believe the gospel where the Bible does not teach that. The argument you are making is sound and Biblical!
JuddGregg 2 years ago
Right on JuddGregg!
mikevoter 2 years ago
Great message. I have prayed that prayer a bunch of times. Christians aren't perfect but they do have the promise of being perfected in Christ. The work which He has started, He will perform it until His return.
morning2004 2 years ago
Anen, yes, faith is even a gift from God, and he will perfect our faith until Jesus comes back or we are called home. Either way.
God bless,
Linda
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Rom 10:13 For everyone, "whoever shall call on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without preaching?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace and bring glad tidings of good things!"
EsteemHisWord 2 years ago
Amen, scripture says it all.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Yes
youratm 2 years ago
The sinners prayer is not evil, but those pastors who abuse the concept of asking God for forgiveness and to trust in Christ.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
I agree with you in this video. People say the sinners prayer is not biblical and as the prayer is not in the bible the concept is. I am very sick of these so called christians condeming things that dont apeal to them.
SuperGoldtop 2 years ago
Where is the concept? I am interested to know,
God bless
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
well it is in john chapter 3 Jesus tells us to be born again. Romans 10 says if call upon the name of the lord you will be saved. It also says if you confess with your mouth and believe with your heart . You see it is there and I am tired of people saying it is not. I bet most of the people that are down on the sinners prayer prayed one to get saved
SuperGoldtop 2 years ago
I don't agree calling upon the name of the Lord equates to asking Jesus into your heart.
""The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!""
(Mark 1:15)
We really don't see Him ever saying "The time has come, the kingdom of God is at hand.... who would like to ask me into their heart?"
It's always repent and believe.
God bless!!!!
SalvationEternity777 2 years ago
I dont ever tell people to pray to ask Jesus into their heart but I ask if they want to pray to recieve Jesus as Lord and savior. You see It is in the bible to recieve him > It is in 1 or 2 corinthians I cant remember the exact adress.
SuperGoldtop 2 years ago
Yeah, sure ya do! I know you do. Come admit it. Come Clean. You soul winning Dude.
Everyone, if you want to make Jesus your friend and you want to feel nice warm fuzzies.
Come now, let's pray Jesus into our hearts . Yum! I get warm fuzzies as I text !None of the repentance of sin stuff.
And...............................
Danny
simplydannygirl 2 years ago
Please read John chapter 3 again, the Lord Jesus does not tell us" to be born again", He says you "must be born again". He is not commanding, He is making a statement. The new birth is something that God does, there is nothing you can do to cause yourself to be born again. Just like physical birth, is was all up to your parents, so it is the same with spiritual birth, you cannot do anything to be born of God.
qptqpt 2 years ago