See thats one thing that relates to mormonism. The mormons say there is many gods but there has to be a god to make a god which doesnt make sense and thats why this video does make sense :)
@RicenCoal Because art is in its very nature a creation. God is without beginning. He exist in the form of Spirit. He doesn't have a physical human body with members because that which possesses these is of things fashioned.
To expand on your analogy: as you're walking along the infinite line of dominos there are three (or more) men each with their own opnion about the true nature of the dominos, each insisting that their ideas are the one true ideas. How can you know which of these men has the correct idea, if any? How can they possibly know?
@BggProductions Umm I'm not sure you listened to what he was getting at with the dominoes. He was saying that an actual infinity cannot exist... that time could not have gone back infinitely, but had a beginning.
@steveoho I did listen. I'm not sure you understood my meaning: none of us mere mortals can fully comprehend the Infinite, yet there are people who claim to know the Truth about it and claim that their way is the only way, that all differing beliefs are wrong.
@BggProductions I understand what you're saying... especially with our limited knowledge/ability to understand. However, to counter that I would say that the only way for us to know the Infinite (aka God) is for us to observe what the infinite does or what the Infinite reaveals. Christianity maintains that God has interacted with us for a long time and even entered into history that we might glimpse of God. I recommend the book of John... you'll be astounded by what it reveals
@steveoho I have read the gospels but see no reason to accept, as I take it that you do, that any of them were revealed to Man by a divine creator. Can you demonstrate how this is so?
@BggProductions I'd first point out Jesus existed in real history and his actions among real people who were able to verify/denounce what was written afterward. I see the best explanation for the miracles that people saw being that God interacted supernaturally with our world (I believe that nothing happens without his say so, but these actions/miracles defy our understanding of what is possible). The fulfillment of so many prophecies in Jesus only adds to his message.
@steveoho I don't deny that the character of Jesus was based on an actual man but cannot accept that the translations of translations of ancient mysticism accurately depict the life and actions of this man. As for fulfilling prophecies, the authors shot themselves in the foot there; if they hadn't tried to retcon Jesus' life to fit in with prophecy then the bible would have a few less plot holes.
@BggProductions I'm not sure what you mean by translations of translations. Generally speaking the majority of today's translations come directly from the original language.
As to retcon... that this gospel (which can be shown to hold continuity back to when they were written) was accepted among a people who would have been hostile to it speaks volumes of its validity/veracity. The apostles were all reported to have suffered and died carrying this message (which they believed)
@steveoho It means that all the varying modern bibles bear little resemblance to the texts that primitive hebrews adhered to (and even less to the myths of other cultures which they plagiarised).
Since when did persecution prove validity? I could make up any old nonsense & be persecuted for it, would that 'speak volumes' about the veracity of my claims?
@BggProductions Check out the Case for Christ. Then, do some research... any significant claim of these stories is either made up or was added to the tradition after Christ.
Try faking it - I'd be fairly convinced if you persisted in what you knew to be a delusion under torture, constant ridicule and death. More convincing would be if numerous people separated by distance proclaimed the same message under the same pressure and did not relent unto death... like ALL the apostles
@steveoho I will check that out, thanks, though I will view it without wearing the blinkers of faith.
Really? If I persisted in something I knew to be false even under torture then you would be 'fairly convinced' of my baseless claims? You have just demonstrated the gullibility of theists, thank you. And if numerous gullible people accepted my nonsense that would somehow make my inventions more convincing? This is how religions are founded.
@BggProductions Its more that I'm even more convinced that you couldn't persist in something you knew to be false when there was no benefit to you (unlike Muhammad or Joseph Smith). I'd also be surprised if you could come up with a story that fits prophecy well. Christ fulfilled a couple hundred including many he had no control over (such as birth) and some that are incredible (the miracles, his death, it was even prophesied that no bones would be broken). Hard act to follow
@israelsocratus The problem with saying "before" with the big bang is that time and space did not exist before that point. All the rest is just supposition.
To say god exits outside of space is meaningless, for outside has meaning only within space. To say god exist before, or after time is meaningless, for before and after have meaning only within time. Only within time can cause be distinguished from effect. If time originated with the Universe then the Universe can have no cause. Nature itself makes a fine God. If your god the artest needs no father, why does God the Art need an artest?
@RicenCoal Yes, it has meaning because we are within time, space, matter. That God is not constrained to time, space or matter is what he was saying. I'm not sure what you're saying at the end. If a clockmaker makes a clock and someone comes along and says hmm the clock seems to be running just fine and does not need to have been created by a clockmaker... that would seem absurd.
@steveoho It is absurd to say the clock needs no clockmaker, but no more absurd than saying a clockmaker needs no father. This is the point. A god which is Art is no less likely than a god that is artist. We being artist wish for a god like us, but that does not make it so. The point is Nature makes a fine god and Nature is here for all to see.
What does it mean to not be constrained by space or time? Where is god if not in space; when is god if not in time?
@brianhar100 Yes there is a first domino. Time/the universe began at some point. Its the first point in the cosmological argument. The second is that everything that begins has a cause. The third goes something like the cause must then be neither physical nor time-bound.
@steveoho Time may have beginning, but it can have no cause distinguishable from itself. Causes come before effects, nothing comes before time because without time there can be no before. Tell me how may you distinguish cause and effect without time? When two asteroids collide which is acting, which reacting? The very concept of cause and effect lose meaning outside the context of time; one becomes indistinguishable from the other.
@ChristianWarriorUSA So what you are saying is that even if God does not exist. You would keep believing anyway. Theology,and mythology. Please tell me the difference?
@brianhar100 No, I'm not. Mr. Slick here is answering a question about Christian Theology, with his information on Christian Theology. The question isn't "Does God exist," as said by the title, but rather "Where did God come from," which, if anything, implies God's existence. However, if this implication is not meant to be made, the question has nothing to do with God's existence, but the nature of His creation.
See, this is what Im so confused on... I always wonder who created God and who is God's mother and father??? ... Its a tough question and so hard to understand.
How about let's eliminate the omnipotent being and replace the word 'heaven' with the word 'multi-verse' and use logic and scientific reasoning! You might think the multi-verse is a radical notion but not anymore with the modern science of quantum mechanics. What is the QM source? The Big Bang! What caused the 'bang'? A collision or quantum mechanical fluctuation of parallel universes. This is still physics. It is an extension of our physics which eliminates fairy tales.
@FallofDarkness55 The multiverse makes everything too complex and thus improbable. It would suggest that there were universes which were far far more complex than our own.
@ThomasWinkworth And it's more reasonable. So what if other universes are more complex than ours? That's like saying complex exoplanets could not exist because they are more complex than the Earth! QM suggests parallel universes and you fail!
@FallofDarkness55 It's more reasonable? It's not even close to being more reasonable, there is absolutely no empirical evidence for it. It only exists inside the imagination. The multiverse doesn't solve the problem of complexity, only pushes the question back futher.
@ThomasWinkworth " It only exists inside the imagination. The multiverse doesn't solve the problem of complexity, only pushes the question back futher."<-LOL! Same with your god stupid ass! Your argument is flawed and even if this theory is wrong it doesn't mean that your god must exist. There could be other explanations!
You just used the Bible "I am the Alpha and the Omega" to prove your statement that 'there never was a point that he didn't exist'. This is a circular argument, you stated that 'Atheists will forever continue to argue in circles'. How is it that you failed to identify circular reasoning in your own post.
Its logically necessary to have a personal uncaused cause? No! Its only logically necessary to say we don't know. We cannot comprehend the paradox of 'before time' or 'outside space'. 'God' is a metaphor.
We create metaphors like this from our human experience of life and project it out onto the universe in the form of myths but expecting these myths to be literal and objective is the laziest and most shallow thing we can ever do. Its an insult to our consciousness.
@Hufflewaffle Yes it is. Time is a function of matter, time exist when matter exist. God lives outside of space and time, so he can be an uncaused cause. And how do you know God is a metaphor, to presuppose God is not real, just because we make up stuff all the time and he must be one of those metaphors is not necessarily logical.
@Hufflewaffle I don't need to, you need to demonstrate to me how God is a metaphor, just because we can think of such things does not mean he is not real. God is based on conclusions we draw from the Bible, a historical documents with real Eyewitness accounts who saw Jesus (who was God in flesh) perform miracles, rise from the dead, and ascended to Heaven, that is where we get the conclusion for God.
@meeene4 The existence of an objective, literal 'thing' outside the boundaries of literal existence is a paradox. The 'uncaused cause', 'outside space', 'before time' can only be comprehended through metaphor. It cannot be pointed to, seen, heard, felt, understood or rendered in any other way.
All our attempts to render these concepts, exist only within in the languages of Art and Myth. Art and Myth ignite our imagination, energize our senses and allow us to live fulfilling, meaningful lives.
Literal historical facts may allow us to improve our lives outwardly but they do nothing to make our lives more fulfilling. Discovering facts about the tree does not make its fruit any more nourishing.
@Hufflewaffle 1. What do you mean by God is a literal thing? so i cannot comment on your myth assertion 2. We are not trying to find ways to make life more fulfilling we are trying to find Truth, If Jesus did what he did and was who he said he was, you would have to prove that not to be true to show that God does not exist.
@meeene4 I never said God does not exist. I said He is not literal. He exists metaphorically in the same way Love exists metaphorically. In the christian myth God is made manifest through Christ - By following his example of sacrifice and compassion we ALL have the potential to be 'anointed' (healed) Most myths have important, deep human messages at their core if you care to study them properly without bias. What is the point of a logical truth if it doesn't fulfill our lives?
@Hufflewaffle Once again, The bible and Christianity is not a Myth, it is a real historical document based on Jesus, who was God in Flesh, who did miracles and was seen by many eyewitnesses to ascend in heaven, so we conclude that what Jesus said, " "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14"6, we conclude Jesus told the truth, and our faith lies that Jesus died for our sins.
@meeene4 I can't think of anything to write except to say the bible, christianity and religion in general reach far deeper into the human psyche (or 'soul' if you prefer) than you imply. Matt Slick should really be ashamed of himself. Human beings grew out of these silly shallow notions centuries ago.
meeene, I am really sorry you have adopted these views. I hope, if you are truly interested in religion and belief, that eventually you find the courage to study them properly.
@Hufflewaffle Excuse me? I think you should study Religion. I did not adopt these views out of imagination and all these other things you claim. And FYI, Christianity is not a notion, it was based on who Jesus was, who was God in flesh and all those eye witnesses which i will not repeat, and you have not given me any reason to believe otherwise, all you have asserted was subjective opinion.
@Hufflewaffle And may i say, you cannot say that Christianity is not worth believing in because they believed it all in another age long ago, that is a genetic fallacy, you cannot commit those errors and expect me to take you seriously.
@meeene4 I said human beings grew out of shallow notions of christianity centuries ago. I didn't say its not worth believing. Christianity is not just a branch of history. What would be the point of that? Truth? So does this mean WITHOUT historical or scientific 'truth' you wouldn't believe in the bible at ALL? Ask yourself, what does the bible (character, narratives, poetry, form) say about YOUR life? YOU are a player in all of this, like it or not - 'Truth' is an abstract concept; YOU are not.
@Hufflewaffle On what basis do you have the right to call them shallow notions? I was saying that i draw conclusions from evidence, God found me before i knew about the evidence anyway, the day i first prayed, i felt his presence. I see we are at an impasse, if all your going to do is now make emotional accusations about me and the Bible then i have no reason to continue this further.
I have a theory of chain reaction big bangs. Maybe the Big Bang was a reaction from a different Big Bang. It's kind of like a domino effect. You may find it difficult to think in that manner because of the fact that the first domino that you would never get to have to had started. There's a paradoxical notion that if matter was eternal, then it could have modifications within that eternal. I don't call it finite to conditions.
You're right to say that there can't be a first or a second or a third if there's an infinite line of dominoes... But this is only because "second" and "third" are defined relative to the first. That doesn't mean there's a contradiction to say the universe always existed... there's only a contradiction in saying that this is the 1902901092019th second of the universe.... or that you could ever locate such a point. That would defy the meaning of infinity.
If dominoes are the univers then God set them up and pushed the 1st 1 down. Eventually the last will fall and the world will end. But God will create a new 1.
Your argument seems to be a fallacy of special pleading. If your god can exist eternally, why can't the universe? Also, if god exists outside of time, how did he create or cause anything? Causal actions demand time and time is defined as the measure of changes in something; something of a causal nature. To "cause" something must change, therefore exist in time.
Yes you can have an infinite number of dominoes, if such is posited. The need for a first one is just an imposition you project into a scenario which obviously contains no first domino. Then you pretend the conditions of your first scenario apply to the second.
If you replace "domino infinity" with "god infinity" you do nothing clever; all you do is switch terms and pretend to explain something.
Our number system starts at zero and goes to infinity.
@XXY4LIFE2. The universe has no cause or no end, only just endless cycles, and the big bang is the beginning of the cycles, and the big crunch is the end of the cycle, but once the universe get to the singularity, recreates the entire process to where it can recreate the cycle of the universe. This is a speculation, and there is noting that says the universe needs a cause, only that the universe has a singularity,which is when the universe become a single energy source again.
Here is a speculation, on the 'cause' of the universe. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, and the same energy has existed since the beginning, which is the universe itself, and 'God,' if it does exist, would have arose out of this energy to create the laws, or to arrange, the order in the universe, but the energy existed before 'God,' and thus, due to entropy, the universe has a cyclic function of the universe to enable the energy to recycle, to enable the universe to exist forever.
@XXY4LIFE2.We do not know where the universe came from, and until there is a scientific explanation, or some valid empirical claim, the cause is unknown. God is not testable, and it cannot be an explanation, and if the claim is not testable, its not valid. Any theory presented to the cause of the universe, must be falsifiable, and within the laws of scientific investigation, as that is the only methodology to verify such a claim being the 'cause' of the universe.
It is no more logical to say that "God has always been" than it is to say that it is impossible for an infinitely expanding/contracting universe to explain our existence. Neither can proven. Both rely, not on logic, but on faith alone.
It's up to each individual to decide which he or she will put faith in. I believe in God, but I nor anyone can prove His existence. And that's fine with me.
God came from primitive people using it as a solution to where everything came from. God was first everything, then God become something in creation, to the human form of God, we exist in today. Next, God will go back to the universe, or some cosmic force,as the 'cause' of the universe. There is almost no single person that agrees on the same definition of God, so its difficult to confirm the present definition of God.
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ndrummer99 5 days ago
See thats one thing that relates to mormonism. The mormons say there is many gods but there has to be a god to make a god which doesnt make sense and thats why this video does make sense :)
mizmiller2081 1 month ago
@mizmiller2081 Nature itself makes a fine God. If your god the artest needs no father, why does God the Art need an artest?
RicenCoal 1 month ago
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ndrummer99 5 days ago
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@RicenCoal Because art is in its very nature a creation. God is without beginning. He exist in the form of Spirit. He doesn't have a physical human body with members because that which possesses these is of things fashioned.
ndrummer99 5 days ago
To expand on your analogy: as you're walking along the infinite line of dominos there are three (or more) men each with their own opnion about the true nature of the dominos, each insisting that their ideas are the one true ideas. How can you know which of these men has the correct idea, if any? How can they possibly know?
They don't.
BggProductions 2 months ago
@BggProductions Umm I'm not sure you listened to what he was getting at with the dominoes. He was saying that an actual infinity cannot exist... that time could not have gone back infinitely, but had a beginning.
steveoho 2 months ago
@steveoho I did listen. I'm not sure you understood my meaning: none of us mere mortals can fully comprehend the Infinite, yet there are people who claim to know the Truth about it and claim that their way is the only way, that all differing beliefs are wrong.
Do you not see how ridiculous these claims are?
BggProductions 2 months ago
@BggProductions I understand what you're saying... especially with our limited knowledge/ability to understand. However, to counter that I would say that the only way for us to know the Infinite (aka God) is for us to observe what the infinite does or what the Infinite reaveals. Christianity maintains that God has interacted with us for a long time and even entered into history that we might glimpse of God. I recommend the book of John... you'll be astounded by what it reveals
steveoho 2 months ago
@steveoho I have read the gospels but see no reason to accept, as I take it that you do, that any of them were revealed to Man by a divine creator. Can you demonstrate how this is so?
BggProductions 2 months ago
@BggProductions I'd first point out Jesus existed in real history and his actions among real people who were able to verify/denounce what was written afterward. I see the best explanation for the miracles that people saw being that God interacted supernaturally with our world (I believe that nothing happens without his say so, but these actions/miracles defy our understanding of what is possible). The fulfillment of so many prophecies in Jesus only adds to his message.
steveoho 2 months ago
@steveoho I don't deny that the character of Jesus was based on an actual man but cannot accept that the translations of translations of ancient mysticism accurately depict the life and actions of this man. As for fulfilling prophecies, the authors shot themselves in the foot there; if they hadn't tried to retcon Jesus' life to fit in with prophecy then the bible would have a few less plot holes.
BggProductions 2 months ago
@BggProductions I'm not sure what you mean by translations of translations. Generally speaking the majority of today's translations come directly from the original language.
As to retcon... that this gospel (which can be shown to hold continuity back to when they were written) was accepted among a people who would have been hostile to it speaks volumes of its validity/veracity. The apostles were all reported to have suffered and died carrying this message (which they believed)
steveoho 2 months ago
@steveoho It means that all the varying modern bibles bear little resemblance to the texts that primitive hebrews adhered to (and even less to the myths of other cultures which they plagiarised).
Since when did persecution prove validity? I could make up any old nonsense & be persecuted for it, would that 'speak volumes' about the veracity of my claims?
BggProductions 2 months ago
@BggProductions Check out the Case for Christ. Then, do some research... any significant claim of these stories is either made up or was added to the tradition after Christ.
Try faking it - I'd be fairly convinced if you persisted in what you knew to be a delusion under torture, constant ridicule and death. More convincing would be if numerous people separated by distance proclaimed the same message under the same pressure and did not relent unto death... like ALL the apostles
steveoho 2 months ago
@steveoho I will check that out, thanks, though I will view it without wearing the blinkers of faith.
Really? If I persisted in something I knew to be false even under torture then you would be 'fairly convinced' of my baseless claims? You have just demonstrated the gullibility of theists, thank you. And if numerous gullible people accepted my nonsense that would somehow make my inventions more convincing? This is how religions are founded.
BggProductions 2 months ago
@BggProductions Its more that I'm even more convinced that you couldn't persist in something you knew to be false when there was no benefit to you (unlike Muhammad or Joseph Smith). I'd also be surprised if you could come up with a story that fits prophecy well. Christ fulfilled a couple hundred including many he had no control over (such as birth) and some that are incredible (the miracles, his death, it was even prophesied that no bones would be broken). Hard act to follow
steveoho 2 months ago
Where did Existence come from?
Now we have three ( 3) sources of the Universe:
big bang , vacuum and God
Which of them is correct ?
=.
About God I don’t want to debate
But I have question: What was before: egg or chicken?
Oh, I know this question is very old and doesn’t have answer
Therefore I will ask a simpler question: What was before: ‘big bang’ or vacuum?
israelsocratus 4 months ago
@israelsocratus From what I understand of science... nothing was before the big bang... not time, not space, and not matter.
steveoho 2 months ago
@steveoho
Exactly. Before the big bang was Nothing, Vacuum: T=0K
Vacuum is not an empty space, but there ‘ virtual particles’
exist with negative energy – E=Mc^2
And somehow, the energy is extracted from the vacuum and
turned into real particles. We don’t know that virtual particles
are and we don’t know the real mechanism of their changing
Therefore I say: The secret of God and Existence is hidden in the ‘ Theory of Vacuum and Light Quanta ‘
israelsocratus 2 months ago
@israelsocratus The problem with saying "before" with the big bang is that time and space did not exist before that point. All the rest is just supposition.
steveoho 2 months ago
To say god exits outside of space is meaningless, for outside has meaning only within space. To say god exist before, or after time is meaningless, for before and after have meaning only within time. Only within time can cause be distinguished from effect. If time originated with the Universe then the Universe can have no cause. Nature itself makes a fine God. If your god the artest needs no father, why does God the Art need an artest?
RicenCoal 4 months ago
@RicenCoal Yes, it has meaning because we are within time, space, matter. That God is not constrained to time, space or matter is what he was saying. I'm not sure what you're saying at the end. If a clockmaker makes a clock and someone comes along and says hmm the clock seems to be running just fine and does not need to have been created by a clockmaker... that would seem absurd.
steveoho 2 months ago
@steveoho It is absurd to say the clock needs no clockmaker, but no more absurd than saying a clockmaker needs no father. This is the point. A god which is Art is no less likely than a god that is artist. We being artist wish for a god like us, but that does not make it so. The point is Nature makes a fine god and Nature is here for all to see.
What does it mean to not be constrained by space or time? Where is god if not in space; when is god if not in time?
I offer god is not.
RicenCoal 1 month ago
there has to be a first domino or they wouldnt be falling
brianhar100 8 months ago
@brianhar100 Yes there is a first domino. Time/the universe began at some point. Its the first point in the cosmological argument. The second is that everything that begins has a cause. The third goes something like the cause must then be neither physical nor time-bound.
steveoho 2 months ago
@steveoho Time may have beginning, but it can have no cause distinguishable from itself. Causes come before effects, nothing comes before time because without time there can be no before. Tell me how may you distinguish cause and effect without time? When two asteroids collide which is acting, which reacting? The very concept of cause and effect lose meaning outside the context of time; one becomes indistinguishable from the other.
RicenCoal 1 month ago
this answers nothing because there is no god
brianhar100 8 months ago
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@brianhar100 Where is your proof?
smurfboywv 8 months ago
@brianhar100 Whether He exists or not is, in this regard, irrelevant. It is a question of Christian Theology.
ChristianWarriorUSA 6 months ago
@ChristianWarriorUSA So what you are saying is that even if God does not exist. You would keep believing anyway. Theology,and mythology. Please tell me the difference?
brianhar100 6 months ago
@brianhar100 No, I'm not. Mr. Slick here is answering a question about Christian Theology, with his information on Christian Theology. The question isn't "Does God exist," as said by the title, but rather "Where did God come from," which, if anything, implies God's existence. However, if this implication is not meant to be made, the question has nothing to do with God's existence, but the nature of His creation.
ChristianWarriorUSA 5 months ago
See, this is what Im so confused on... I always wonder who created God and who is God's mother and father??? ... Its a tough question and so hard to understand.
Mr517519 8 months ago
That was eloquently explained.
ANOTHERHOLEINYOHEAD 9 months ago
How about let's eliminate the omnipotent being and replace the word 'heaven' with the word 'multi-verse' and use logic and scientific reasoning! You might think the multi-verse is a radical notion but not anymore with the modern science of quantum mechanics. What is the QM source? The Big Bang! What caused the 'bang'? A collision or quantum mechanical fluctuation of parallel universes. This is still physics. It is an extension of our physics which eliminates fairy tales.
FallofDarkness55 9 months ago
@FallofDarkness55 The multiverse makes everything too complex and thus improbable. It would suggest that there were universes which were far far more complex than our own.
ThomasWinkworth 9 months ago
@ThomasWinkworth And it's more reasonable. So what if other universes are more complex than ours? That's like saying complex exoplanets could not exist because they are more complex than the Earth! QM suggests parallel universes and you fail!
FallofDarkness55 9 months ago
@FallofDarkness55 It's more reasonable? It's not even close to being more reasonable, there is absolutely no empirical evidence for it. It only exists inside the imagination. The multiverse doesn't solve the problem of complexity, only pushes the question back futher.
ThomasWinkworth 9 months ago
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@ThomasWinkworth " It only exists inside the imagination. The multiverse doesn't solve the problem of complexity, only pushes the question back futher."<-LOL! Same with your god stupid ass! Your argument is flawed and even if this theory is wrong it doesn't mean that your god must exist. There could be other explanations!
FallofDarkness55 9 months ago
fuck this
SoundsLikePurple 11 months ago
God came from nowhere. He always WAS!!
eric777100763 1 year ago 2
God already gave this answer.
simply put "I am the "Alpha and the Omega"
He is the beginning and the end to everything.
There never was a point that he didn't exist,and there never will be.Trying to understand God with Human logic is doomed to failure from the start.
and thats' why Atheists will forever continue to argue in circles when trying to disprove his existence.
gtw1983 1 year ago
@gtw1983
You just used the Bible "I am the Alpha and the Omega" to prove your statement that 'there never was a point that he didn't exist'. This is a circular argument, you stated that 'Atheists will forever continue to argue in circles'. How is it that you failed to identify circular reasoning in your own post.
thealchemist1111 1 year ago
Time is not necessarily dependent on matter, it would be fairer to say that Time is dependent on Space.
TGGeko 1 year ago
Its logically necessary to have a personal uncaused cause? No! Its only logically necessary to say we don't know. We cannot comprehend the paradox of 'before time' or 'outside space'. 'God' is a metaphor.
We create metaphors like this from our human experience of life and project it out onto the universe in the form of myths but expecting these myths to be literal and objective is the laziest and most shallow thing we can ever do. Its an insult to our consciousness.
Hufflewaffle 1 year ago
@Hufflewaffle Yes it is. Time is a function of matter, time exist when matter exist. God lives outside of space and time, so he can be an uncaused cause. And how do you know God is a metaphor, to presuppose God is not real, just because we make up stuff all the time and he must be one of those metaphors is not necessarily logical.
meeene4 1 year ago
@meeene4 God is not literal but this doesn't mean he can't be metaphorically real.
Otherwise, please explain what you mean by "outside space and time"?
Hufflewaffle 1 year ago
@Hufflewaffle I don't need to, you need to demonstrate to me how God is a metaphor, just because we can think of such things does not mean he is not real. God is based on conclusions we draw from the Bible, a historical documents with real Eyewitness accounts who saw Jesus (who was God in flesh) perform miracles, rise from the dead, and ascended to Heaven, that is where we get the conclusion for God.
meeene4 1 year ago
@meeene4 The existence of an objective, literal 'thing' outside the boundaries of literal existence is a paradox. The 'uncaused cause', 'outside space', 'before time' can only be comprehended through metaphor. It cannot be pointed to, seen, heard, felt, understood or rendered in any other way.
All our attempts to render these concepts, exist only within in the languages of Art and Myth. Art and Myth ignite our imagination, energize our senses and allow us to live fulfilling, meaningful lives.
Hufflewaffle 1 year ago
@Hufflewaffle cont'd
Literal historical facts may allow us to improve our lives outwardly but they do nothing to make our lives more fulfilling. Discovering facts about the tree does not make its fruit any more nourishing.
Hufflewaffle 1 year ago
@Hufflewaffle 1. What do you mean by God is a literal thing? so i cannot comment on your myth assertion 2. We are not trying to find ways to make life more fulfilling we are trying to find Truth, If Jesus did what he did and was who he said he was, you would have to prove that not to be true to show that God does not exist.
meeene4 1 year ago
@meeene4 I never said God does not exist. I said He is not literal. He exists metaphorically in the same way Love exists metaphorically. In the christian myth God is made manifest through Christ - By following his example of sacrifice and compassion we ALL have the potential to be 'anointed' (healed) Most myths have important, deep human messages at their core if you care to study them properly without bias. What is the point of a logical truth if it doesn't fulfill our lives?
Hufflewaffle 1 year ago
@Hufflewaffle Once again, The bible and Christianity is not a Myth, it is a real historical document based on Jesus, who was God in Flesh, who did miracles and was seen by many eyewitnesses to ascend in heaven, so we conclude that what Jesus said, " "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14"6, we conclude Jesus told the truth, and our faith lies that Jesus died for our sins.
meeene4 1 year ago
@meeene4 I can't think of anything to write except to say the bible, christianity and religion in general reach far deeper into the human psyche (or 'soul' if you prefer) than you imply. Matt Slick should really be ashamed of himself. Human beings grew out of these silly shallow notions centuries ago.
meeene, I am really sorry you have adopted these views. I hope, if you are truly interested in religion and belief, that eventually you find the courage to study them properly.
Hufflewaffle 1 year ago
@Hufflewaffle Excuse me? I think you should study Religion. I did not adopt these views out of imagination and all these other things you claim. And FYI, Christianity is not a notion, it was based on who Jesus was, who was God in flesh and all those eye witnesses which i will not repeat, and you have not given me any reason to believe otherwise, all you have asserted was subjective opinion.
meeene4 1 year ago
@Hufflewaffle And may i say, you cannot say that Christianity is not worth believing in because they believed it all in another age long ago, that is a genetic fallacy, you cannot commit those errors and expect me to take you seriously.
meeene4 1 year ago
@meeene4 I said human beings grew out of shallow notions of christianity centuries ago. I didn't say its not worth believing. Christianity is not just a branch of history. What would be the point of that? Truth? So does this mean WITHOUT historical or scientific 'truth' you wouldn't believe in the bible at ALL? Ask yourself, what does the bible (character, narratives, poetry, form) say about YOUR life? YOU are a player in all of this, like it or not - 'Truth' is an abstract concept; YOU are not.
Hufflewaffle 1 year ago
@Hufflewaffle On what basis do you have the right to call them shallow notions? I was saying that i draw conclusions from evidence, God found me before i knew about the evidence anyway, the day i first prayed, i felt his presence. I see we are at an impasse, if all your going to do is now make emotional accusations about me and the Bible then i have no reason to continue this further.
meeene4 1 year ago
I have a theory of chain reaction big bangs. Maybe the Big Bang was a reaction from a different Big Bang. It's kind of like a domino effect. You may find it difficult to think in that manner because of the fact that the first domino that you would never get to have to had started. There's a paradoxical notion that if matter was eternal, then it could have modifications within that eternal. I don't call it finite to conditions.
ROARfatassROAR 1 year ago
God's movement would be what defines time. The movement for creation disproves that God's a necessity.
DrSeussMinotaur 1 year ago
I'm a Muslim but I like you analysis, Quran says the same. Good work.
helasmoh 1 year ago
You're right to say that there can't be a first or a second or a third if there's an infinite line of dominoes... But this is only because "second" and "third" are defined relative to the first. That doesn't mean there's a contradiction to say the universe always existed... there's only a contradiction in saying that this is the 1902901092019th second of the universe.... or that you could ever locate such a point. That would defy the meaning of infinity.
mrbluesky323 1 year ago
If dominoes are the univers then God set them up and pushed the 1st 1 down. Eventually the last will fall and the world will end. But God will create a new 1.
44SCB 1 year ago
Your argument seems to be a fallacy of special pleading. If your god can exist eternally, why can't the universe? Also, if god exists outside of time, how did he create or cause anything? Causal actions demand time and time is defined as the measure of changes in something; something of a causal nature. To "cause" something must change, therefore exist in time.
HaveFaithInScience 1 year ago
Yes you can have an infinite number of dominoes, if such is posited. The need for a first one is just an imposition you project into a scenario which obviously contains no first domino. Then you pretend the conditions of your first scenario apply to the second.
If you replace "domino infinity" with "god infinity" you do nothing clever; all you do is switch terms and pretend to explain something.
Our number system starts at zero and goes to infinity.
Your logic says what?
chilimaan 1 year ago
Awesome.
floodtube1 1 year ago
@XXY4LIFE2. The universe has no cause or no end, only just endless cycles, and the big bang is the beginning of the cycles, and the big crunch is the end of the cycle, but once the universe get to the singularity, recreates the entire process to where it can recreate the cycle of the universe. This is a speculation, and there is noting that says the universe needs a cause, only that the universe has a singularity,which is when the universe become a single energy source again.
KevZen2000 1 year ago
Here is a speculation, on the 'cause' of the universe. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, and the same energy has existed since the beginning, which is the universe itself, and 'God,' if it does exist, would have arose out of this energy to create the laws, or to arrange, the order in the universe, but the energy existed before 'God,' and thus, due to entropy, the universe has a cyclic function of the universe to enable the energy to recycle, to enable the universe to exist forever.
KevZen2000 1 year ago
@XXY4LIFE2.We do not know where the universe came from, and until there is a scientific explanation, or some valid empirical claim, the cause is unknown. God is not testable, and it cannot be an explanation, and if the claim is not testable, its not valid. Any theory presented to the cause of the universe, must be falsifiable, and within the laws of scientific investigation, as that is the only methodology to verify such a claim being the 'cause' of the universe.
KevZen2000 1 year ago
It is no more logical to say that "God has always been" than it is to say that it is impossible for an infinitely expanding/contracting universe to explain our existence. Neither can proven. Both rely, not on logic, but on faith alone.
It's up to each individual to decide which he or she will put faith in. I believe in God, but I nor anyone can prove His existence. And that's fine with me.
That's my stance, anyway.
FreeAtLast1914 1 year ago
Good Job Matt! Glad to see that you are back doing vids!
r8escjohn 1 year ago
Yes but should we stop at god in particular? Do we have any reason to arbitrarily stop at the god of the bible?
Landofjello 1 year ago
Quoting Douglas Adams regarding the Babel fish "..and God disappeared in a puff of logic."
Thankyou for providing yet another good example.
If this wasn't your intent, I'm sorry I gleaned such.
If it was, thanks for your satire. It was very well done.
P.S. Even if it wasn't, thanks.
naganokumas 1 year ago
i like your video
blacksuperbeast 1 year ago
God came from primitive people using it as a solution to where everything came from. God was first everything, then God become something in creation, to the human form of God, we exist in today. Next, God will go back to the universe, or some cosmic force,as the 'cause' of the universe. There is almost no single person that agrees on the same definition of God, so its difficult to confirm the present definition of God.
KevZen2000 1 year ago