Unfortunately, Sola Scriptura or Bible alone is nowhere to be found in the Bible! If this were to be true, according to Sola Scriptura, then this statement would have to appear somewhere in the Bible in one form or another implicit or explicit. In fact it is anti-Biblical!
people keep saying that protestants have "churches" like were all seperated. I am non-denominational, and my work colleage is a Babtist. We call eachother Brother and talk about God with excitement and agreement all the time. Same with others in other "denominations". As long as the essential doctrines are agreed on, we are brothers in Christ. I think that many Orthodox misunderstand what we believe and how we actually get along. Just an observation. I find Orthodoxy interesting.
@bob47able: Myrrh-streaming Icons, Weeping ICONS, even prayer books that STREAM MYRRH, the miracle -working foot print of the Mother of God in Saharna, the shroud of the theotokos with the miraclous icon of CHRIST..the cross which the communists could not destroy...etc..
@bob47able People for whom doctors clearly stated they could never have children got children. They took miraculous grapes from Hilandar monastery on Athos (Greece). Of course, with prayer, lent and faith in Christ.
There are hundreds of cases confirmed there.
Orthodox miracles are always for salvation and good of people. Contrary to the miracles and wonders of this world, fancy nuclear bombs, poisons, and big words.
All of you who are arguing against protestants?Where is your biblical backing?Talk is cheap.The holy spirit has answers though,For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many,are one body,so also is Christ.For in fact the body is not one member but many. If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased.
@adamantis4657 Hello Brother, forgive this sinner, but please be care in making statements as to who God will extend Grace and who he wont. That is very dangerous ground and frankly, it makes you sound like a Bible thumping Southern Babtist, not an Orthodox Christian. I agree with everything else you say. As a convert myself, you need to understand how deeply Protestants are indoctrinated into Latin/Roman theology, and reach out with love. Those who wish to seek, as I, will find.
in regaurds to Item number 4. I'm an orthodox Christian, that is not what the orthodox believe. There is no cause for anger or hatred in religion. Be firm in the statements of your belief but please remember the point of this is Love. Not peace, or being nice. But love. For the same reason you punish your children, love. Many will follow christ who are not a Member of the Holy Orthodox Faith.
Lord Jesus Christ son of God, Have mercy on me a sinner.
@adamantis4657 I strongly disagree with you. I have seen God move Awesomely in churches you would call "protestant". I have talked to missionarys that have prayed over the blind and the blind (from birth) could see! The whole village came to Christ because of this miracle from God. So you are saying that because its not Orthodox, they arnt really saved?? I'm sorry, I think that is a flawed view point.
1.) The Holy Bible (biblical backing) - IS A BOOK OF THE CHURCH - the Holy Church established its CANON and not the SECTS. The Holy Fathers have collected the Scriptures and they "CREATED" the Bible through the enlightment of the Holy Spirit.
2.) Those same Fathers have SET ALL PROTESTANTS UNDER ANATHEMA.
3.) Read the BIBLE: The Bible is NOT FOR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION as St. Peter says in one his letters!
@adamantis4657 The earliest canon I see was in 170 AD the earliest ANATHEMA on record was in 306 at the council of Elvira. more than a hundred years afer. So I would disagree that it was the same Fathers that set all protestants under this excommunication. Just an observation, I could be wrong. from your other posts I have observed, I believe you misunderstand protestants. I am curious about Orthodoxy, not here to pick a fight. I do not belong to a "Denomination".
@adamantis4657 could this be considered iconography in a more modern sense. This is a video of a man who belongs to a protestant church who worships God in his art. only 2 min long but powerful. I hope you watch it. I think you will like it.
Holy Iconography dates back to the Holy Apostles and Christ. Holy Icons are painted according to the Holy Canons of the Church and through prayer and fasting. No one is allowed to paint or express his personal feelings. Icons are like Archetypes - those Archetypes do not change. Christ is always painted the same way as 2000 years ago. The same with the Mother of God or the Saints.
@believerintheword: So Iconography is not a subjective expression of the painter but a part of the Holy Tradition of the church. The painter is only like a medium and not an artist. Icons are windows to heaven. Holy Iconography is a also a witness of the Incarnation of christ because since that time God has become "visible" - when we see an Icon of Christ we wee God in human form.
@adamantis4657 thnks, I understand it alot more now. But I think it is a bit of an overreaction to say we are cursed because we dont hold to it. I mean, you think we NEED it?? Are you saying its necessary for salvation? I do understand your point, I really find that it is not necessary for salvation though.
The Holy Fathrers and the Holy Church has set all under ANATHEMA that does not Honor the Holy Icons. To be under Anathema means to be cursed from God. To be outside the Church. this is very dangerous.
It is not about what I think or what u think...it is about the Holy Dogmas of Christ.
Everyone who do not accpet the Holy Icons - he does not accept the incarnation of Christ - because they belong together!
@adamantis4657 I understand, I just think that is foolish. I am not in any Danger by the Catholic church weather it be Orthodox or Rome. You can say I'm cursed or under anathema all day but does that make it true? The deeper I study these "extra" traditions and requirements. The more I see man made religion, paganism, and power egos throughout history. I have read countless story after story about men being burned, tortured, etc . for disagreeing with the "true" church.
@adamantis4657 (cont.) example: The pope is supposed to be the "vicar " or Christ right?? lets look at an early pope. Damsus I, 366-384: woman and chil. bought and sold as sex slaves to increase funding for church. tortured and burned people alive for disagreement, stealing of property, murdered 44 bishops and was the 1st to put in place papal supreamacy. I'm sure you know of many incidents like this. This is the fruit I see even in early catholicism. scripture speaks againsed you here.
@believerintheword 1. Orthodoxy has never accepted papal supremacy. Papal supremacy never existed in the early Church. 2. Your accusation against Damasus I is grossly distorted and outright false. He was accused of adultery at one point, but was cleared innocent by 44 bishops. He never murdered 44 bishops. This leads me to think you are reading into some sort of super Anti-Catholic material. I don't know what nonsense you are reading but WOW that accusation was ridiculously false.
@believerintheword I think what adamantis4657 was trying to say is that rejection of Holy Iconography is very dangerous, because it, in turn, makes one reject the Incarnation, which critical belief needed to be considered Christian. It is therefore dangerously heretical to reject Holy Iconography. I'm glad you are interested in learning about Orthodoxy. I am a convert by the way. Watch the videos by this man who goes by the name on youtube "davidpwithun." He's an amazing historian. God bless!!
Dude, there's no doubt tht worshiping anyone other that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (a.k.a. God) is something wrong. I still can't believe that there are still people who claim that you have to go through a whole process before you can even present yourself before God. Jesus opened the way to the Father for us and doing some ritual over and ver again won;t help with anything. You know God through Jesus, you live life through Jesus, you act under the truth of Jesus; Christian life.
@adamantis4657 Since we're talking about the Bible, and you asked me to speak from it, worship is giving thanks to God for everything that he has done, does and will do for us, it mean to be happy that he loves us and helps us and exclaim it in any way as long as it doesn't creat discontent in our brothers' and sisters' hearts and minds. Adoration is loving God with your all, mind, body and soul, and to give your best to present a spiritual gif before Him in thanks.
@bazzvy Veneration and honoration I haven't found to be mentioned in the Bible, other that the honor is God's as He is Creator, Builder, Pastor a.s.o. Because of this He deserves all our respect, all our thanksgiving, all of us. Plain and simply, as I see it, honoration, worship and adoration all make up our spiritual gift towards God. Just as Paul said: we are to be living sacrifices (offerings) for God Read it like this: Rom. 12:1 so that 1 Thes. 5:23 John 3:16. That is the true worship.
@bazzvy: ADORATION IS ONLY DUE TO GOD but veneration, honoration etc....is due to many things my decepted protestant friend!
U said; U don't know about honoration and veneration in the BIBLE? Well do u not even know the commandments? How said:
HONOR YOUR PARENTS!
Can u remember for example, here God ordered to HONOR YOUR PARENTS but u could not find any passage in the Bible - wow u must really know the Bible! LOL
None of the apostles wanted to be sanctified, not to mention adored, worshiped, venerated or honorated. They kept repeating this to people, but it seems that not even now have they understood. e.g. Peter & Cornelius in Acts 10:25,26, Paul & Apollos in 1 Cor. 1:12, 3:4-6. Say what you want but I'm pretty sure that they wanted to say "WORSHIP GOD, NOT US! WE ARE SERVANTS! HE DESERVES THE GLORY, THE HONOR, THE WORSHIP! NOT US! HIM! PICK HIM!"
@adamantis4657 Dude, argue with me all you like but I'll bet you can't find honoration from term-to-term translation of my ROMANIAN Bible!! Orthodox book? Think again: it's made of two parts, and at the time it wasn't the Orthodox Church, but the Bizantine Church. Remember 1054? Look, the fact is that we can argue all you want, but from what you said two comments above is basically the same thing but with different names. What? I can't honor God? I can't make God proud? I apologise for my words.
The Holy ORTHODOX CHURCH WAS FOUNDED BY CHRIST at PENTECOST and the Holy BIBLE WAS CREATED BY THAT CHURCH. So the Holy Bible is a book of the Church.
Go and study the history of the Church. Go and study how the CANON of the Church was "created". The Church has established its CANON and no one else.
When u read the letter of St. Peter u will see that EVERY KIND OF PRIVATED INTERPRETATION IS FORBIDDEN striclty. ONLY THE CHURCH HAS THE KEY OF ITS INTERPRETATION
@adamantis4657 You know, you really should check that we're on the same level. You're talking about the Orthodox Church as the Church of Christ, which is correct as orthodox means rightous believer (term-to-term translation from roumanian) BUT I thought you were talking about the Orthodox Church as we are thought in my country (google romanian orthdoxism). And talking about only the Church has the key of its interpretaion, I hope you're not talking about the Pope. PLEASE SAY NOT THE POPE!
@adamantis4657 Oh, and about the canon, please check that the canon known tday as the Holy Bible is one of many, if I'm not mistaken the last made by the first Church. There have been many canons throughout the ages, so don't tell me that the fathers of the Church didn't put it together. I agree, it was assembled with God's will, else they would'nt have ever finished ith the canons. And yes, the bible is inspired by God, but have you read some "gospels"? Some divine inspiration that was..
@bazzvy: THE CANON OF THE BIBLE was established the Holy CHURCH through the Holy Fathers - like St. Athanasios the great.
There were many christian "GOSPELS" and writings. The Pastor of Hermas for example - some have thought it belongs to the Holy Bible. Some also have included other letters.....
Some have rejected the Revelation of John...
IT WAS THE CHURCH WHO ESTABLISHED THE CANON and not a protestant sect!
@adamantis4657 See, you keep giving credit to the Church for the canon, not God. Remember the Apostles? " If it hadn't been you, there would've been others" Anyway, you seem really pent up about the protestants. I wonder how you feel about the budists, catholics, hidus, non-God worshiping religious members, you know... the people you're supposed to love as yourself and HELP get enlightened? If you are so reticent towards me, a 17 year old Christian, I wonder how you're able to love anyone :(
Christ founded ONE CHURCH and not many different. THERE IS ONE GOD - ONE FAITH - ONE CHURCH. That is how it is.
The BIBLE WAS CREATED BY THE CHURCH and not by SECTS or different denominations - THAT IS A FACT.
The Holy Apostles warned that the Holy Bible is not for privated interpretation because they have known that not all would understand it correctly. That is the reason why there are so many different CHRISTIAN SECTS today.
@adamantis4657 See, you keep giving credit to the Church for the canon, not God. Remember the Apostles? " If it hadn't been you, there would've been others" Anyway, you seem really pent up about the protestants. I wonder how you feel about the budists, catholics, hidus, non-God worshiping religious members, you know... the people you're supposed to love as yourself and HELP get enlightened? If you are so reticent towards me, a 17 year old Christian, I wonder how you're able to love anyone :(
@adamantis4657 Anyway, I said I'm done arguing. God will reveal all when it is the right time. May we all be enlightened until then. And please don't say that you already are, you know what the bible says about that :) Cheers! Be blessed!
@bazzvy: YES, I AM ENLIGHTEND by the Holy CHURCH. It is the absolute TRUTH. There are not different christian "churches" or denominations. THERE IS ONLY ONE all others are HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS and SECTS.
U see from yourself u have NO CLUE about the Holy Bible or the history of the CHURCH
@bazzvy: YES, I AM ENLIGHTEND by the Holy CHURCH. It is the absolute TRUTH. There are not different christian "churches" or denominations. THERE IS ONLY ONE all others are HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS and SECTS.
U see from yourself u have NO CLUE about the Holy Bible or the history of the CHURCH
@bazzvy: And every SECT has its own interpretation. Thousends of different SECTS - that is the outcome of "private" interpretation. St. Peter speaks also about the "dark" passages in the Bible etc..
We need the Holy Fathers for the correct interpretation - without them it is hard to understand it. Much grace is needed to understand the Mysteries of God.
The Bible is a book of the Holy Fathers!
Protestantism is deception from its very beginning: LUTHER a cursed man, ....
@bazzvy: Your whole understanding of the Bible is rooted in PROTESTANTISM. U don't really know the Bible. Those protestants ALWAYS repeat the same nonsense. It is like someone has brainwashed them.
Go and study the history of the CHURCH and the BIBLE.
ADORATION as I told u is only DUE TO GOD - the only ONE TRUE GOD = THE HOLY TRINITY.
But even in the Old TESTAMENT the Israelits honored the prophets, they venerated the TEMPLE, they venerated the ARC, the THORA, etc...
@bazzvy: They even PROSTRATED BEFORE THE PROPHETS, the ANGELS etc...God even punished those who did not HONOR THEM. Read the life of the great Prophet Eliaja
They even DANCED BEFORE THE ARC as sign of VENERATION - DAVID FOR EXAMPLE.
Also in the New Testament. Go and read the ACTS of the Apostles.
@adamantis4657 I'm gonna be the "bigger" man and apologise, so you dont have to (because you probably won't). I don't wish to fight. May the Lord shed light upon you! Be blessed, brother/sister!
@bazzvy: It is funny how u quote the Bible and even don't know the "basics" - because the 10 commandments belong to the "basics".
When u read your Bible carefully (which is an orthodox book and not that of protestants) u will see that the Apostles and Saints are honored there. There are many things HONORED in the Bible.
This whole unbiblical nonsense u are posting here comes from protestant deception which are SECTS and HERETICS and are condamned by the Holy Church.
@adamantis4657 It is funny how you seem to haven't read the book of Hebrews. Paul cearly states that the Law (or the ten comandments) are not for the holy, but for the sinners. Paul regrets havin read the Law Romans 7:7 but recognises its' need Romans 7:12-14 but he says that we are no longer in debt towards the Law. We respond not to the Law but to Christ Galatians 3:24 Also, he says that Jesus is above the Law, that the Law is no longer necessary for those who live udner Christ Ephesians 2:15
@jacmia: LOL CHRISTIANITY = PURE LOVE CHRISTIANITY = PRUDENCE CHRISTIANITY = DIVINE CHRISTIANITY = THERE IS NO OTHER RELIGION MORE BEAUTIFUL CHRISTIANITY = THE HEALING OF ALL SOCIETY CHRISTIANITY = SALVATION OF THE WHOLE COSMOS CHRISTIANITY = HUMILITY CHRISTIANITY = UNION WITH GOD CHRISTIANITY = TRUTH CHRISTIANITY = MYSTICAL CHRISTIANITY = MYSTERY OF MYSTERIES CHRISTIANITY = THE CHOSEN ONES CHRISTIANITY = THE DESTRUCTION OF ALL THAT IS EVIL +++
@adamantis4657 hmmmm since it has caused the most wars, murders and hate bewteen people ! oh wait ... you're right that doesn't matter ! so long as you believe in God it's ok to kill unrelentlessly ....
Christianity set us back 1500 years .... if it were up to Christians we wold still believe the eart was flat, earthquakes are the wrath of God and the stars are portholes that the angels use to spy on us
@jacmia: Hmmm - really! Wow u must be very educated ha? Because when I look to history - I can see that most WARS were caused by ATHEISTS!
Flat earth has nothing to do with christianity because the Holy Fahters and also ancient philophers have known that the earth must be round like an egg. Go and study the great Fathers of the christian faith and u will see.
Only the roman church quarrelled on such topics - which is not the the "topic" of the church!
@adamantis4657 Most modern day wars were created by Atheists ? what University taught you that ? The church held for years that the Earth was flat and then that the Sun spun around the Earth ... remember Galileo ? you need to get better informed and not believe something just because the church said so !
@jacmia: WOW - after so much time u have returned! LOL -and again with the same silly conclusions. LOL
Go and study history - especially the history of the middle ages. Search "flat earth" theory and u will see that ONLY A FEW believed in flat earth. The christian FATHERS did not.
Go and read Socrates - he allready has known that the earth is ROUND like an egg. Go and read the Bible - there u can find expressions like: All the ROUND of the EARTH.
@adamantis4657 I was raised Chrsitian and attended Marista then Jesuit schools .... this is just one example of the hate of Christians .... in a span of 400 years Christians killed 9 million ... yes 9 MILLION women alone for helping ease the pain of childbirth as they were branded as witches .... that doesn't include the inquisition, crusades (where in one single invasion they killed over 100,000) that's not violent ? then the witchunts in salem, their alliance with Hitler
@jacmia: Raised christian - I know what that means = PSEUDY CHRISTIANITY! Like those crazy fundamentalists in USA - they are sooo far from being christian.
U know - as I have told u , I know history VERY WELL. What u mention here is not the history of christianity. And not even history. It is a very one sided and hatefull depiction of what u call history.
1.) The catholic church is not christianity
2.) U never mention all the good that christianity has brought
@adamantis4657 You and I probably agree on many things, but be careful thinking that there are *that* many literal fundies here in the US. They are a minority, even among evangelicals. The ones to worry about are the Word of Faith and the Give to Get charlatans. Jacmia is one of those that latches on to the lies of the anti-Christian world. 9 million "witches"? Only the political axe-grinder and sad wiccan witchiepoo trots out that number in order to bolster their self-importance.
@jacmia 1) You really must start providing citations for these claims. 9,000,000? Cite please.
2) The Crusades were defensive wars against Mohametan aggression. Were there atrocities? Absolutely. Were those atrocities "Xtian"? No. Unlike other religions, Xtianity does not call its adherents to violence. It demands the opposite. That being said, even the purest water is contaminated when placed in rusty vessels.
3) Hitler used the German churches. Read the Nazi's own words, please.
@mpa000 One of the Crusades aimed Constantinople, Christian city.
Which is no wonder, if you consider that Catholic Church is heretical sect.
There are Christians who never had inquistion, crusades, holocausts, who themselves were victims of all of these. And who were not found by some Joseph Smith or other protestant "teachers" but by Christ and apostiles 2000 years ago.
@Htogrom A pity, my friend, that whenever some youtube atheist starts discussing religion with me, they start exhibiting lack of knowledge of history with great ignorance. perhaps it is us, the orthodox, who have a strong need for knowing our origins.
Pure materialism, negation of any kind of holiness, negation of eternal life. Care only for wordily, not for spiritual. Negation of ritual. Failure to understand metaphorical truths, failure to understand value and meaning of iconography. Thus all these weird comparisons.
That is pretty much what most protestants and Joseph Smith share.
@Htogrom hey, I got your response. I personaly dont have a problem with Orthodoxy. I am looking into it and researching some stuff. I disagree with half of your statements about Mormons and protestants being the same. we believe in Holiness, eternal Life, and Love the woridly (bible) and Spiritual. I'm not sure what you mean my metaphorical truths. I would actualy put Orthodoxy and Mormons together on Rituals. The Mormons have TONS of secret rituals they do. I find iconography unnecessary.
@believerintheword You can't really compare Mormons with Orthodox. Mormon's exist how long? 200 years at beast? Orthodox Church exists for 2000 years. We did never have to invent anything, we just followed what was left to us by apostiles.
You comparison could be than extended to Satanic church. They also have secret rituals.
If you want to know more about orthodoxy check this out. One of the greatest Orthodox historians in America:
@Htogrom All protestant churches reject Joseph Smith and the Mormons, Jehovis Witnesses, Christian science, and other cults. we have much more in common with you than we do with them. I Love Jesus, I believe he is God in the flesh, I believe in the Trinity, I believe in babtism, I believe in Holy communion (maby not like you but I dont know) I believe that my salvation brings good works that Christ has set up for us to do. I only find a few things we dont agree on , but the esentials are there
@EvertonFooty Of course when we investigate how countless that was we get to number of 2000-4000 Jews, mainly atheists, anarchists and Marxists who plotted to overthrow Tzar. Of course, later they grabbed the power in Russia, brutally killed Tzar and his family. Killed 90% of priests and monks, and killed between 70-100 million Russians, mainly Orthodox.
Jews hated Tzar because he removed their banking privileges, and gave land to peasants, who could not be exploited any more.
@EvertonFooty: I am not interested in Progroms either!
What I am interested in is IF ORTHODOXY IS THE TRUE FAITH OR NOT.
Also Jews made Progroms - how many people were killed by JEWS? So u will find progroms in EVERY NATION and RELIGION.
I only know that the Monks form Mount Athos - BROKE THEIR TRADITION and they have hidden many Jews in their monasteries. IT IS WELL KNOWN that they kept jewish women and kids. (THIS WAS AGAINST ATHONITE TRADITION) but they saved their lives
@adamantis4657 How about the invasion of the Americas in the name of Christianity ? they absolutely annihilated all the Island Indians and the bloodbath that ensued in the continental Americas was devastating . !!! The Protestan reformation saw thousand of unjust murders !! wherever Christianity exists there's bloodbath and violence ... Christianity has murdered more innocent people than any ruler, empire or war .... ITS VIOLENT
@adamantis4657 if the invasion of America was not done in the name of Christ then why were the natives forced to convert or die ? (HMMM PRETTY VIOLENT) ... I was raised in Latin America and the teachers at the school were from Spain, Italy and local .... so nope ..... no pseudo USA Christianity. (By the way I also went to school in France ... et je parle Francais
Without catholicism christianity would not have spread so obviously you don't know your history at all
@jacmia: The problem here is that u are full of hate - not me the christian!
U try to show that christianity has killed etc...but that is not true. The invasion was not done to bring christianity to other people but to gain richness and new lands - it was done because of greedy people and not of TRUE CHRISTIANS
AGAIN - U MIX UP THINGS HERE - to demonstrate what u want to
@adamantis4657 Additionally if you really knew your history you would kow that the birth of Christianity as an organized religion was due to Constantine when he forced (the easy way or the hard way) Romans to accept Christianity ... so even at its' birth it was riddled in blood and violence
@adamantis4657 I'm not spreading hate, I'm simply telling the truth ... I haven't killed anybody ... we have had the church for that ... and why do you keep avoiding the question ? what University taught you that it was not Constantine, through the council of nycea, who cemented Chrsitianity as an organized religion ? what University taught you that 3 invinsible beings decended to give us the new testament ?
@adamantis4657 Are you denying that the first copy of the new testament was commissioned by Constantine ? are seriously going to deny hard facts that have been concretely researched ? in your opinion it was delivered by 3 mythical beings ? and you're telling me I don't know my history ?
@jacmia: COPY of NEW TESTAMENT! LOL Again I have to laugh.
Do u know the history of the Holy Bible? Do u know all its Scriptures? Do u know Holy Tradition? Do u know the Holy Apostles? Do u know the Septuaginta? Do u know the Apocryphs......
I think u know nothing about the Bible or its history. I think u also don't know anything about the Holy Fathers....
U see, u said u were raised christian - but u know NOTHING about christianity! Funny ha?
@adamantis4657 of course I know ... Although the jesuit school i went to was more interested in faith than history the maristas did cover plenty. The septuagint was ordered by a Ptolemy pharao. The Ptolemy's were decendants of Alexander the Great and therefore Greek who understood learning for educations' sake. They were neither Jewish nor christian. I know A LOT about Christianity and its' one sided "you shall not Queation !" mentality which keeps people like you in dark !
@jacmia: LOL - from your silly posts I can see that u know nothing about christianity and nothing about history!
Go and search what the "dark ages" have been! U are like a parrot - only repeating silly stuff what u have heard - perhaps on TV. TV is not the best source for education my friend.
ARCHITECTURE - go and look thos cathedrals of the "DARK AGES" - go and look some libraries of those DARK AGES. BOOK, STUDIES...etc.....
@adamantis4657 Architechture is not science and again the concepts were borrowed not invented ... now tell me again what SCIENTIFIC advancements came from Christianity ? and of course arts and architechture were flourishing ... there was enough money to support it from the corrupt Christian church and you say that catholicsm isn't Christianity ? well to a billion Catholics it is as they believe in the mythical jesus ... how arrogant of you to dimiss them ... arrogance is not vey Christian !
@jacmia: I did not say that Architecture is Science! U should learn to read more carefully. I tried to show that the middle ages were not as dark as u wished to.
ALL SCIENTIFIC CAME FROM CHRISTIANS - have u read my POSTS? Without christianity we even would not have institutions like UNIVERSITIES. LOL
When u look at those ancient Universities u even can see the spirit of ancient monasteries because those universities are the outcome of the monastic life.
@adamantis4657 I'm not but it certainly shows how backwards Christian mentality is and a true testament of their hateful beliefs
So far you claim that the Church fermented scientific thought so how come there's not 1 Invention during Christian rule ???
youre are using the word "University" loosely ... it was not open to the public and taught only theology and mathematics ... science was a tabboo .... where do you get your information ???
@adamantis4657 I have read the Bible many times .... It's a well written fairy tale. What's important is the moral of the story ... just like any Fairy tale .... its' not meant to be a literal translation RIDDLED WITH CONTRADICTION ! you my friend have not analyzed it ... you understand what someone wants you to understand ONLY ... like cattle ! which by the way ... I will send you by e-mail a response from a Chrsitian thread to show show you how "peaceful" Christians are
@adamantis4657 not to mention the degradation of women, the hate of homosexuals, and the worst ... setting us back 1500 years in science ... It's a good atheists were around to fix the science issue. PS if you like your modern living ... you have only atheists to thank !
@adamantis4657 modern science ? The church suppressed modern knowledge .... they didn't invent it ! you could be burned alive for suggesting the existence of microbes ... what history did you study ? what accredited university taught you that Christianity was the inventor of modern science ?
Your statement of Homosexuality is worded to make yourself feel better ... it would be like telling saying God doesn't hate blondes ... just the ones with hair ... the bald ones are fine ! SILLY
The church was the founder of modern SCIENCE - that is a FACT. The church always was interested in SCIECE. Why do u think the great Saints founded the first Universities in Europe? Why do u think the Seminaries have been the best schools. Why do u think EVERY MONASTERY has a large library? Why do u think many monks were great Scientists?
So u are deadly wrong! LOL
Why do u think modern science was BORNE in a christian culture and not in a muslim or buddhist?
@adamantis4657 what University did you go to ? please tell me what University failed to mention that science has been in existence for millenia .... Christianity supressed and manipulated it ... NAME ONE MEDICINE, ONE CURE, ONE INVENTION TO ENHANCE HUMAN LIFE THAT CAME FROM YOUR SUPPOSED SCIENTIST MONKS
There is a big difference between hating SIN - and SINNERS. WE ALL ARE SINNERS - no one is without sin.
The sin seperates from God - that is what we hate: seperation from God. Sin does not mean to break a moral code or rule - sins means: A-MARTIA - out of the way - for union with God.
@adamantis4657 again that sentence is an Oxymoron "hate the sin not the sinner" ... homosexuality is a normal state demonized by the ignorance and hate-filled doctrine of the church
Scientists were mainly Atheists ... if you like vaccines, if you like modern conveniences, if you feel modern medicine is ok you have only atheists to thank !!! I'm still curious what University taught you this ? CHRISTIANITY SET US BACK 1500 YEARS !!!!! no one taught you about Galileo ? no ? have you seen the models of the solar system created by the church ? It's all wrong ! please tell me which was the fantastic invention that hristianity produced ?
@jacmia: LOL - modern medicine. Wow u are uneducated. Go and search were modern medicine is coming from. U will find many books and studies from the middle ages - written by monks and clerics. LOL
Also great Doctors of the middle ages were christians! Go and search for Paracelsus, St. Albertus Magnus....they were even interested in Alchemy....etc..
Solar system - have u read my POST? The Holy Fathers of the 3rd and 4th century have known that the earth must be round.
@adamantis4657 Here is where your extreme level of education shines .... The Doctors in the middle Ages and their books reccomended bleeding a person to treat a disease ... additionally Monks didn't write the books because they weren't discovering anything ... they were simply translating from the Pagan books stolen and smmugled into Christian territories ... did you even know that Christians were the last to burn the Library at Alexandria at which they stole many upon many works !
@jacmia: LOL - your low level of education shines brightly!
Universities:
In the United Kingdom, the earliest university-type establishment was probably the College, established by the Celtic preacher St. Illtyd in about AD 500. Oxford University was established by various religious orders. Likewise, Cambridge University was established in 1209 by Christian leaders. Saint Andrews, Scotland’s oldest university, was founded principally for the teaching and study of theology.
@adamantis4657 Again you're talking about Christian schools ... the Univertsity was a concept that was borrowed not invented. Plus the curriculum of these Universities was purely of mathematecial practicality and theology. Classical litearture was banned and allowed to be read by priests ... not the entire population ... not truly a center of learning as you paint it ! I think you need to research your history instead of believing what anybody tells you .. thats how ignorance starts !
The origin of many medieval universities can be traced to the Christian cathedral schools or monastic schools which appear as early as the 6th century AD and were run for hundreds of years as such before their formal establishment as university in the high medieval period.[3]
THE FIRST UNIVERSITY IN EUROPE IS SAID TO BE FOUNDED BY ST: CLEMENT OF OHRID IN ABOUT
@adamantis4657 Wow is right .... thats the first University in Europe ... not in the World ... with stolen knowledge and It taught for 200 years that the Sun revolved around the Earth ... why don't you get your facts straight because you sound like an uneducated arrogant liar
@adamantis4657 what you see as stubborn is what aggressive hateful Christians perceive as an attack (because Christians are so used to being violent). I have carefully considered both sides of the coin and it's impossible that the story is true ... its a Myth that uses fear to make the weak minded believe in a folk tale for the purpose of control ..... you should thank me ! I'm giving you knowledge that you simply should investigate not judge ... wait I forgot Judging is what Christians do best
1.) LOL - AGAIN - u are aggressive here not the christians! Again it is funny that u always accuse other of YOUR OWN FAULTS. This is called PROJECTION in psychology.
2.) U do not know "BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN" - because from your silly posts I can see that u know nothing about CHRISTIANITY.
3.) HAHAH - u really make me laugh. Judging - AGAIN u are judging here and not christians. I did not judge u - but judged me.
What I can see from your posts is something different. It is not about looking for truth or know "both sides". There is something VERY PERSONAL. I do not know what "experiences" u made.
But I can see that there is something wrong with u!
@adamantis4657 About Christianity not being correct ... it was the dominating force for 1500 years ... so what you're trying to tell me is that God allowed Millions to be killed in his name, allowed human suffering beyond anything we know today ... I emphasize for 1500 yeas of pure damage to humanity ... so that your congregation toaday could get it right ? and I'm the ignorant one ... my friend you need to buy an alarm clock so you can wake up and see things for what they are
@jacmia: Go study history again AND LOOK CAREFULLY why those people were killed! Look if they really were killed because of Religion or CHRISTIANITY.
The Catholic Church IS ONE - the most important in the WEST - nothing more. What about the Oriental Churches? What about the Holy Orthodox Church? etc...
But u like to pick out the catholic church because u think it fits in your picture of HATE.
@adamantis4657 The flat earth comment was a atyrical statement but they believed for at least 300 years that the sun spun around the earth ... It wasn't until the French revolution that religious mentality dwindled and finally Atheists like Marie Curie and Pasteur were able to usher modern science. Additionally, for over 1,300 years you could be killed (and were killed) for being Atheist ... therefore scientist had to hide their true beliefs
1.) As I have told u - they even discussed such topic in ancient times; the ancient philosophers - and also the Church Fathers of the 3rd and 4th century.
2.) Flat earth etc...is not the business of the Church - the salvation of men is her business not discussing biology or geography or astronomy
3.) Only ONE CHURCH discussed that topic - THE CATHOLIC CHURCH - u are speaking abut CHRISTIANITY - christianity is not = CATHOLICISM
Define ancient times ... The priestly class (both in Eastern orthdox and Catholicism) were allowed to study but not repeat what they learned (you never heard of monastic silence ... really ? and you claim to know Christian History) ... Christianity supressed modernlearning to the point that the scientific method was supressed and scientists had to do experimentation underground ...
@adamantis4657 PLEASE STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION ... WHAT ACCREDITED UNIVERSITY TAUGHT YOU ALL THIS ? I'M REALLY CURIOUS TO KNOW WHICH FINE ESTABLISHMENT TAUGHT YOU THAT CONSTANTINE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FOUNDATION OF CHRISTIANITY AS AN ORGANIZED RELIGION AND THAT EUROPEAN UNIVERSITIES WERE A BEACON OF LEARNING FOR THE PUBLIC
@jacmia. ALL GOOD UNIVERSITIES TAUGHT THAT BECAUSE IT IS A FACT! LOL
Go and get some education and return and we can go on. ;)
Church history - the church was established and organized long before Constantine. Constantine only set it free in the roman empire. Even some Saints were against that "liberation".
The persecution ended that time - later some roman emperors AGAIN started to persecute it.
@adamantis4657 WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER ME .... YOU CALL YOURSELF EDUCATED RIGHT ? WHAT ACCREDITED UNIVERSITY TAUGHT YOU THIS HISTORIC TIMELINE ? WHAT UNIVERSITY TAUGHT YOU THE IDEA THAT THE CHURCH WAS A BEACON OF SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE ? WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER ? why do Christians always avoid answering direct questions ? you keep writing LOL and using words like uneducated but you cannot back up anything you say ... NAME AN SCIENTIFIC BREAKTHROUGH THAT WAS PRODUCED BY CHRISTIANITY IN THE DARK AGES ?
@johny260 Mendal was Post French Revolution .... a period which introduced reason (The way it should be and truthfully is) ..... Read craefully ... I asked over an invention during the Dark ages or when the church ruled Europe .... and there were discoveries but they had to be researched underground ... Priests caught performing an autopsy for research (for example) were burned alive .... yeah real progress !!!!!
@jacmia Shall we than talk about guillotines of French revolution? Where best French nobles were killed and martyred and whores were crowned as queens of reason.
Or shall we talk about another "reason" revolution. Russian revolution, which in the name of progress, communism and materialism had killed more than 70 million lives. Just Lenin and Trotsky took about 30 million. Priests, monks and believers were killed or prisoned just because they were Orthodox!
Or shall we talk about Crusades your US is performing all around the world?
US killed more people than Hitler. Bombing small nations like mine in the name of "democracy" and "human rights".
Land that was found on greatest genocide in history teaches others about human rights...
You can investigate history of Orthodox. It was always martyred, never martyring. We were greatest victim of inquisition, crusades, holocaust. Why don't your media tell you that?
@Htogrom The "crusades" performed by the U.S. are not in the name of Christianity ... you're mixing hate for the U.S. with religious fervor (bad bad Christian !)..... Now the Bolshevik and French revolution were not primarily done in the name of Atheism .... Atheism was adopted as measure of reason to counter-attack the Christian faction of the Nobility ... ALL THOSE KILLINGS WERE NOT DONE IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM .... There's not one document in existance that even remotely suggests that.
@jacmia Maybe you are right. Maybe pure atheism is not what fueled massive killings of monks, priests and believers in Russia. Maybe better name for it would be satanism (being against God).
But, you must understand that atheism was integral part of that thinking. All of them, Lenin, Stalin, Marx became first atheists, and later developed their own ideology. Atheism is great breeding ground for that kind of ideologies.
@Htogrom and although in the later parts of the French Revolution you could be killed for believing in Christianity .... it was a mode of revolt towards the oppresive church nobility ... the idea was to rid the republic of all oppresive actions ..... the demise of the revolution was due mainly to its' unmoderated fundamental beliefs ... which is how Christians behave (They are no different ... murderers, hate-instigators and elitist ... the ultimate brainwashing machine)
@jacmia Excuse me, that is the same rhetoric Communists used. To rid the state from all oppresive actions.
Monks who devoted their whole life into helping poor, children, widows, who built schools, hospitals, orphanages were brutally murdered or deported to Siberia. Their actions were opresive?
And thus in 70 years of communism we never saw communist man like St John of Kronstad. Communists didn't bothered to care about poor, sick, small like he did.
@Htogrom hmmmm of course thats the same rethoric that communist used .... I'm not agreeing with them, I'm explaining the reason they were atheists ... to counter attack the oppresiveness of the church. So the church was the main culprit in turning men into atheists. Additionally we don't believe in the afterlife so we cherish our human experience more so than any Christian. We believe in not hurting any one because we have one life so love your neighbor for that concrete reason.
@jacmia Protestant Church had lead humanity to atheism. But Protestant and Catholic Churches are not only Churches in the world. Why do you think there was no reformation in the East?
What human experience? Life is only one? Life is only one, let's have lot's drug, sex and alcohol. We'r gonna die anyway. We seen that develop already in the West.
And here it is, one nice example how history that you read works.
Russian Orthodox Tzar Ivan Grozni (Ivan the terrible), was presented as brutal dictator, his reign as bloody orgy.
Historical documents reveal that Ivan killed 4000-5000, people. Most of them Bojars (oligarchs) and Khazars.
Now, in France, just in one night more than 10 000 Huguenots killed in one day. Spainsh, German, English kings of time killed more than half a million people. And somehow Ivan is terrible.
@jacmia You show an astonishing lack of understanding of both the French Revolution and history in general. You blame Xtianity for the actions of its abusers (in most cases Euro-trash nobility that dominated the church and abused Xtian and non-Xtian alike). The real villain of the past 2 millenia is Tribal Europe, which was never Xtianised and remains a sesspool of human behaviour. Don't blame Xtianity for the non-Xtian behaviour of those who fed and continue to feed on the Body like parasites.
@Htogrom Provide a cite to back up "US killed more people than Hitler". It might actually be true, given that the US has existed for 23 decades and Hitler was in power for 1. Your "small" nation seems to have done a pretty good job at killing. I wonder if the people of Srebrenica would rather have US or Yugoslav army to deal with or if the thousands of Bosnian refugees taken in by US Catholics would have the same opinion of your "small country". Wasn't it Serb violence that triggered WW1?
@mpa000 And why didn't your Western media told you about 3500 massacred Serbian civilians in Srebrenica from 1992 to 1995? How come Naser Oric that killed them is a hero?
Serb violence trigered WW1? Intelligent man can understand difference between cause and inducement (handle) of war. Austro Hungary was waiting for oppurtinity to attack Serbia, and would do that in one way or another. And how come punishing entire nation for sin of one man goes with your "human rights"?
@Htogrom It is absolutely true that Bosnian Serbs suffered because of what Mladic and his overseers did and the response of the Bosnians. I will not dispute that. I will dispute, however, your numbers. In all of Podrinje (not just Srebrenica) there were 5,573 Serbs killed and 870 (15%) were civilian. That makes it a little hard to support your number of 3500 massacred civilians.
Dresden was a military target, despite what irresponsible AP stories and Goebbels' propaganda suggested.
How could Serbs be killed around Srebrenica as response of Bosnians in advance? Did Bosnians maybe know or planed they would be massacred in 1995, so they killed Serbs in advance?
As far as your statistics goes, I would really not comment something such stupid. You can find yourself Serbian villages around Srebrenica, oh yes, you can't they had been wiped out.
@Htogrom . And, btw, I'm sorry my sarcasm didn't come through as far as Franz Ferdinand's assassination being the root cause of WW1 rather than a triggering point.
I will suggest, however, that the assassination was a meta-effect of the entire dynamic going on at the time. Ferdinand was the main obstacle to Serbian independence, if I remember my history correctly, while being fairly liberal regarding autonomy among others. In the end, Europe is what it always has been. A tribal mess.
@mpa000 What you have against Serbian independence?
Excuse me, but Austro Hungary anexed Bosnia prior to WWI. How is that legal in any terms.
And, sin of one man, who by no means represented official Serbia is enough to punish whole nation? Of course it is not hard for you to take that. Several times your nation staged events that justified destruction of whole nations (Iraq, Afganistan...).
In the end America will always be stupid melting pot.
@adamantis4657 They Christians believed many many upon many erroneous things ... every mildly educated person (not scholars ... anyone that went to a normal school) knows that Galileo was persecuted for saying that the earth orbited around the sun and not the other way around ! see in the Christian mind its' better tpo keep the masses ignorant (like you are now) than to allow any path to discover their lies
@jacmia Ummmm... please read some history. Galileo got himself in trouble for making fun of the Pope, who was, like many historical Popes, only nominally a Christian and mainly a power broker.
see you are not objective .... If you wanted to be educated in the dark ages (ps called the dark ages for a reason and headed by christianity) ... you needed to do it through the curch .. why not have open public Universities or colleges ? The christian church could put a woman to death for learning to read !!! and you say they haven't downgraded women and that they were the beacon of was to become modern civilization ? no wonder you still believe in the boogy man (satan)
I do not believe in boogy man - I know that he exists. If u like I can pray that u know him too? Do u want to experience Him? That whish can be fullifilled.
@adamantis4657 The Dark ages was funny to you ? The period where humanity suffered the most ? typical Chrsitian ... they rejoice in human suffering .... please tell me and stop avoiding the question .... what accredited University taught you that during the Dark Ages Christianity was NOT the ruling power and which University taiught you that Constantine was not responsible for spreading Christianity as a religion (For 400 so years it was more of a Jewish sect .... Please educate yourself
@adamantis4657 he also sent mercenaries through the Balkans and forced citizens to accept Christianity by the sword ... where do you get your information ? Before Constantine there was no new testament written. A letter by paul from 40 years down the line ... That's all we have to support that fantastic tale
Живела Православна вера
Србија Румунија Бугарска Црна Гора Република Српска Македонија
Crazyhorse994 3 days ago
Православні брати та сестри. З Різдвом Христовим.
Artemslobojanin 3 weeks ago
23 muslims have been here.
GregDarkness 3 weeks ago 3
@GregDarkness: LOL or 23 Protestants!
adamantis4657 3 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 Or Satanist cuzz now its gonna be 24 ;)
satandevil200022 1 week ago
@satandevil200022: Well - Satanists are stupid - therefore no one cares if they like it or not.
;)
adamantis4657 1 week ago
@adamantis4657 maybe faggots
coldplay9982 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Unfortunately, Sola Scriptura or Bible alone is nowhere to be found in the Bible! If this were to be true, according to Sola Scriptura, then this statement would have to appear somewhere in the Bible in one form or another implicit or explicit. In fact it is anti-Biblical!
ShadowNihon 2 months ago
God bless all Orthodox Christians...thank you for this video!
Alkmini80 2 months ago
people keep saying that protestants have "churches" like were all seperated. I am non-denominational, and my work colleage is a Babtist. We call eachother Brother and talk about God with excitement and agreement all the time. Same with others in other "denominations". As long as the essential doctrines are agreed on, we are brothers in Christ. I think that many Orthodox misunderstand what we believe and how we actually get along. Just an observation. I find Orthodoxy interesting.
believerintheword 2 months ago
I might sound ignorant but what is the miracle?
bob47able 3 months ago
@bob47able: Myrrh-streaming Icons, Weeping ICONS, even prayer books that STREAM MYRRH, the miracle -working foot print of the Mother of God in Saharna, the shroud of the theotokos with the miraclous icon of CHRIST..the cross which the communists could not destroy...etc..
adamantis4657 3 months ago
@bob47able People for whom doctors clearly stated they could never have children got children. They took miraculous grapes from Hilandar monastery on Athos (Greece). Of course, with prayer, lent and faith in Christ.
There are hundreds of cases confirmed there.
Orthodox miracles are always for salvation and good of people. Contrary to the miracles and wonders of this world, fancy nuclear bombs, poisons, and big words.
Htogrom 2 months ago
1:40 Georgia ( Mckheta ) church - Svetickhovei
Lile79Nia 3 months ago
All of you who are arguing against protestants?Where is your biblical backing?Talk is cheap.The holy spirit has answers though,For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many,are one body,so also is Christ.For in fact the body is not one member but many. If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased.
559mmproductions 3 months ago
@559mmproductions: I CAN TELL U!
1.) Study the history of PROTESTANTISM - from its ORIGIN IT IS REBELLION AGAINST CHRIST - PROTEST
2.) Its founders WERE GREAT HERETICS AND DECEPTED - Luther the cursed catholic monk - woe unto him
3.) Protestantism IS A SECT (or many different SECTS) they are not CHRISTIANS and they are not "a CHURCH)
4.) Protestants WILL NOT BE SAVED
5.) THE BIBEL IS NOT A PROTESTANT BOOK - NO it is a book of the Church and the Holy Fathers
adamantis4657 3 months ago
@adamantis4657 Hello Brother, forgive this sinner, but please be care in making statements as to who God will extend Grace and who he wont. That is very dangerous ground and frankly, it makes you sound like a Bible thumping Southern Babtist, not an Orthodox Christian. I agree with everything else you say. As a convert myself, you need to understand how deeply Protestants are indoctrinated into Latin/Roman theology, and reach out with love. Those who wish to seek, as I, will find.
vanight 3 months ago
@adamantis4657
in regaurds to Item number 4. I'm an orthodox Christian, that is not what the orthodox believe. There is no cause for anger or hatred in religion. Be firm in the statements of your belief but please remember the point of this is Love. Not peace, or being nice. But love. For the same reason you punish your children, love. Many will follow christ who are not a Member of the Holy Orthodox Faith.
Lord Jesus Christ son of God, Have mercy on me a sinner.
Otakutangent 3 months ago
@adamantis4657 I strongly disagree with you. I have seen God move Awesomely in churches you would call "protestant". I have talked to missionarys that have prayed over the blind and the blind (from birth) could see! The whole village came to Christ because of this miracle from God. So you are saying that because its not Orthodox, they arnt really saved?? I'm sorry, I think that is a flawed view point.
believerintheword 2 months ago
@559mmproductions: PROTESTANT TALK IS CHEAP!
1.) The Holy Bible (biblical backing) - IS A BOOK OF THE CHURCH - the Holy Church established its CANON and not the SECTS. The Holy Fathers have collected the Scriptures and they "CREATED" the Bible through the enlightment of the Holy Spirit.
2.) Those same Fathers have SET ALL PROTESTANTS UNDER ANATHEMA.
3.) Read the BIBLE: The Bible is NOT FOR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION as St. Peter says in one his letters!
adamantis4657 3 months ago
@adamantis4657 The earliest canon I see was in 170 AD the earliest ANATHEMA on record was in 306 at the council of Elvira. more than a hundred years afer. So I would disagree that it was the same Fathers that set all protestants under this excommunication. Just an observation, I could be wrong. from your other posts I have observed, I believe you misunderstand protestants. I am curious about Orthodoxy, not here to pick a fight. I do not belong to a "Denomination".
believerintheword 2 months ago
@believerintheword: I am not against Protestants - I am against Protestantism!
Protestantism is wrong because of many things:
1.) Protestants follow themselfes - and not the Holy Apostles and Holy Fathers (this is forbidden - private interpretation of Holy Scripture)
2.) They have no Mysteries (no confession, no Communion etc)
3.) They do not confess the Holy Virgin to be THEOTOKOS (bearer of god) thus there are under Antathema by the Council of Ephesos
adamantis4657 2 months ago
@believerintheword:
4.) They do not honor the Most Holy Theotokos, the Saints, the Apostles and Holy Fathers
5.) They are against Holy Iconography - again they are set under Anathema by the 7th Ecumenical Synod
6.) They have set aside Holy Tradition - fasting, prostrations, candles, oil lamps, and so on...
7.) Many are very modernised and liberal: gay pastors, lesbian bishops etc....this can not be accepted - by no christian.
adamantis4657 2 months ago
@adamantis4657 could this be considered iconography in a more modern sense. This is a video of a man who belongs to a protestant church who worships God in his art. only 2 min long but powerful. I hope you watch it. I think you will like it.
watch?v=oNAet296DoQ&feature=related
believerintheword 2 months ago
@believerintheword: Holy Iconography!
Holy Iconography dates back to the Holy Apostles and Christ. Holy Icons are painted according to the Holy Canons of the Church and through prayer and fasting. No one is allowed to paint or express his personal feelings. Icons are like Archetypes - those Archetypes do not change. Christ is always painted the same way as 2000 years ago. The same with the Mother of God or the Saints.
adamantis4657 2 months ago
@believerintheword: So Iconography is not a subjective expression of the painter but a part of the Holy Tradition of the church. The painter is only like a medium and not an artist. Icons are windows to heaven. Holy Iconography is a also a witness of the Incarnation of christ because since that time God has become "visible" - when we see an Icon of Christ we wee God in human form.
adamantis4657 2 months ago
@adamantis4657 thnks, I understand it alot more now. But I think it is a bit of an overreaction to say we are cursed because we dont hold to it. I mean, you think we NEED it?? Are you saying its necessary for salvation? I do understand your point, I really find that it is not necessary for salvation though.
believerintheword 2 months ago
@believerintheword: U have not understood!
The Holy Fathrers and the Holy Church has set all under ANATHEMA that does not Honor the Holy Icons. To be under Anathema means to be cursed from God. To be outside the Church. this is very dangerous.
It is not about what I think or what u think...it is about the Holy Dogmas of Christ.
Everyone who do not accpet the Holy Icons - he does not accept the incarnation of Christ - because they belong together!
adamantis4657 2 months ago
@adamantis4657 I understand, I just think that is foolish. I am not in any Danger by the Catholic church weather it be Orthodox or Rome. You can say I'm cursed or under anathema all day but does that make it true? The deeper I study these "extra" traditions and requirements. The more I see man made religion, paganism, and power egos throughout history. I have read countless story after story about men being burned, tortured, etc . for disagreeing with the "true" church.
believerintheword 2 months ago
@adamantis4657 (cont.) example: The pope is supposed to be the "vicar " or Christ right?? lets look at an early pope. Damsus I, 366-384: woman and chil. bought and sold as sex slaves to increase funding for church. tortured and burned people alive for disagreement, stealing of property, murdered 44 bishops and was the 1st to put in place papal supreamacy. I'm sure you know of many incidents like this. This is the fruit I see even in early catholicism. scripture speaks againsed you here.
believerintheword 2 months ago
@believerintheword 1. Orthodoxy has never accepted papal supremacy. Papal supremacy never existed in the early Church. 2. Your accusation against Damasus I is grossly distorted and outright false. He was accused of adultery at one point, but was cleared innocent by 44 bishops. He never murdered 44 bishops. This leads me to think you are reading into some sort of super Anti-Catholic material. I don't know what nonsense you are reading but WOW that accusation was ridiculously false.
magnus56j 2 months ago
@believerintheword I think what adamantis4657 was trying to say is that rejection of Holy Iconography is very dangerous, because it, in turn, makes one reject the Incarnation, which critical belief needed to be considered Christian. It is therefore dangerously heretical to reject Holy Iconography. I'm glad you are interested in learning about Orthodoxy. I am a convert by the way. Watch the videos by this man who goes by the name on youtube "davidpwithun." He's an amazing historian. God bless!!
magnus56j 2 months ago
@believerintheword Orthodox Christians don't belong to a denomination either. We are not non-denominational, but we are pre-denominational.
magnus56j 2 months ago
cool
jamesjasin 4 months ago
Exodus 20:23
You must not use gold or silver to make idols for yourselves; do not worship these gods in addition to me.
NewLife1996 4 months ago
Dude, there's no doubt tht worshiping anyone other that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (a.k.a. God) is something wrong. I still can't believe that there are still people who claim that you have to go through a whole process before you can even present yourself before God. Jesus opened the way to the Father for us and doing some ritual over and ver again won;t help with anything. You know God through Jesus, you live life through Jesus, you act under the truth of Jesus; Christian life.
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy:
What means WORSHIP? What is ADORATION? WHAT IS VENERATION? WHAT IS HONORATION
Go and explaind all those terms and we can go on with our discussion.
Before u answer, take your bible (which is a book of the CHURCH) and try to find all VERSES where those terms are found.
LOL - waiting your answer!
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@adamantis4657 Since we're talking about the Bible, and you asked me to speak from it, worship is giving thanks to God for everything that he has done, does and will do for us, it mean to be happy that he loves us and helps us and exclaim it in any way as long as it doesn't creat discontent in our brothers' and sisters' hearts and minds. Adoration is loving God with your all, mind, body and soul, and to give your best to present a spiritual gif before Him in thanks.
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy: So let's go on:
ADORATION - only due to GOD the CREATOR
VENETATION - due to many things (go and read the Bible, Prophets, Apostles, Temples, Arc....)
HONORATION - due to many things (your parents etc...
BTW do u know where the Bible comes from?
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@bazzvy Veneration and honoration I haven't found to be mentioned in the Bible, other that the honor is God's as He is Creator, Builder, Pastor a.s.o. Because of this He deserves all our respect, all our thanksgiving, all of us. Plain and simply, as I see it, honoration, worship and adoration all make up our spiritual gift towards God. Just as Paul said: we are to be living sacrifices (offerings) for God Read it like this: Rom. 12:1 so that 1 Thes. 5:23 John 3:16. That is the true worship.
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy: ADORATION IS ONLY DUE TO GOD but veneration, honoration etc....is due to many things my decepted protestant friend!
U said; U don't know about honoration and veneration in the BIBLE? Well do u not even know the commandments? How said:
HONOR YOUR PARENTS!
Can u remember for example, here God ordered to HONOR YOUR PARENTS but u could not find any passage in the Bible - wow u must really know the Bible! LOL
adamantis4657 4 months ago
None of the apostles wanted to be sanctified, not to mention adored, worshiped, venerated or honorated. They kept repeating this to people, but it seems that not even now have they understood. e.g. Peter & Cornelius in Acts 10:25,26, Paul & Apollos in 1 Cor. 1:12, 3:4-6. Say what you want but I'm pretty sure that they wanted to say "WORSHIP GOD, NOT US! WE ARE SERVANTS! HE DESERVES THE GLORY, THE HONOR, THE WORSHIP! NOT US! HIM! PICK HIM!"
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy: U did not explain what WORSHIP, VENERATION, HONORATION, ADORATION means in biblical ways.
U only posted some silly and wrong conclusions but that was not asked!
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@adamantis4657 Dude, argue with me all you like but I'll bet you can't find honoration from term-to-term translation of my ROMANIAN Bible!! Orthodox book? Think again: it's made of two parts, and at the time it wasn't the Orthodox Church, but the Bizantine Church. Remember 1054? Look, the fact is that we can argue all you want, but from what you said two comments above is basically the same thing but with different names. What? I can't honor God? I can't make God proud? I apologise for my words.
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy: WRONG MY FRIEND!
The Holy ORTHODOX CHURCH WAS FOUNDED BY CHRIST at PENTECOST and the Holy BIBLE WAS CREATED BY THAT CHURCH. So the Holy Bible is a book of the Church.
Go and study the history of the Church. Go and study how the CANON of the Church was "created". The Church has established its CANON and no one else.
When u read the letter of St. Peter u will see that EVERY KIND OF PRIVATED INTERPRETATION IS FORBIDDEN striclty. ONLY THE CHURCH HAS THE KEY OF ITS INTERPRETATION
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@adamantis4657 You know, you really should check that we're on the same level. You're talking about the Orthodox Church as the Church of Christ, which is correct as orthodox means rightous believer (term-to-term translation from roumanian) BUT I thought you were talking about the Orthodox Church as we are thought in my country (google romanian orthdoxism). And talking about only the Church has the key of its interpretaion, I hope you're not talking about the Pope. PLEASE SAY NOT THE POPE!
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy: I AM TALKING ABOUT THE HOLY ORTHODOX CHURCH - the Church of CHRIST, the CHURCH of the Apostles, THE CHURCH OF THE FATHERS and the SAINTS.
THERE IS ONLY ONE CHURCH = HOLY ORTHODOXY.
Protestantism is a heresy and condamned by the Holy Fathers. They are SECTS and decepted.
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@adamantis4657 Oh, and about the canon, please check that the canon known tday as the Holy Bible is one of many, if I'm not mistaken the last made by the first Church. There have been many canons throughout the ages, so don't tell me that the fathers of the Church didn't put it together. I agree, it was assembled with God's will, else they would'nt have ever finished ith the canons. And yes, the bible is inspired by God, but have you read some "gospels"? Some divine inspiration that was..
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy: THE CANON OF THE BIBLE was established the Holy CHURCH through the Holy Fathers - like St. Athanasios the great.
There were many christian "GOSPELS" and writings. The Pastor of Hermas for example - some have thought it belongs to the Holy Bible. Some also have included other letters.....
Some have rejected the Revelation of John...
IT WAS THE CHURCH WHO ESTABLISHED THE CANON and not a protestant sect!
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@adamantis4657 See, you keep giving credit to the Church for the canon, not God. Remember the Apostles? " If it hadn't been you, there would've been others" Anyway, you seem really pent up about the protestants. I wonder how you feel about the budists, catholics, hidus, non-God worshiping religious members, you know... the people you're supposed to love as yourself and HELP get enlightened? If you are so reticent towards me, a 17 year old Christian, I wonder how you're able to love anyone :(
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy: CREDIT TO THE CHURCH!
Christ founded ONE CHURCH and not many different. THERE IS ONE GOD - ONE FAITH - ONE CHURCH. That is how it is.
The BIBLE WAS CREATED BY THE CHURCH and not by SECTS or different denominations - THAT IS A FACT.
The Holy Apostles warned that the Holy Bible is not for privated interpretation because they have known that not all would understand it correctly. That is the reason why there are so many different CHRISTIAN SECTS today.
adamantis4657 4 months ago
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@adamantis4657 See, you keep giving credit to the Church for the canon, not God. Remember the Apostles? " If it hadn't been you, there would've been others" Anyway, you seem really pent up about the protestants. I wonder how you feel about the budists, catholics, hidus, non-God worshiping religious members, you know... the people you're supposed to love as yourself and HELP get enlightened? If you are so reticent towards me, a 17 year old Christian, I wonder how you're able to love anyone :(
bazzvy 4 months ago
@adamantis4657 Anyway, I said I'm done arguing. God will reveal all when it is the right time. May we all be enlightened until then. And please don't say that you already are, you know what the bible says about that :) Cheers! Be blessed!
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy: YES, I AM ENLIGHTEND by the Holy CHURCH. It is the absolute TRUTH. There are not different christian "churches" or denominations. THERE IS ONLY ONE all others are HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS and SECTS.
U see from yourself u have NO CLUE about the Holy Bible or the history of the CHURCH
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@bazzvy: YES, I AM ENLIGHTEND by the Holy CHURCH. It is the absolute TRUTH. There are not different christian "churches" or denominations. THERE IS ONLY ONE all others are HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS and SECTS.
U see from yourself u have NO CLUE about the Holy Bible or the history of the CHURCH
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@bazzvy: And every SECT has its own interpretation. Thousends of different SECTS - that is the outcome of "private" interpretation. St. Peter speaks also about the "dark" passages in the Bible etc..
We need the Holy Fathers for the correct interpretation - without them it is hard to understand it. Much grace is needed to understand the Mysteries of God.
The Bible is a book of the Holy Fathers!
Protestantism is deception from its very beginning: LUTHER a cursed man, ....
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@bazzvy: Your whole understanding of the Bible is rooted in PROTESTANTISM. U don't really know the Bible. Those protestants ALWAYS repeat the same nonsense. It is like someone has brainwashed them.
Go and study the history of the CHURCH and the BIBLE.
ADORATION as I told u is only DUE TO GOD - the only ONE TRUE GOD = THE HOLY TRINITY.
But even in the Old TESTAMENT the Israelits honored the prophets, they venerated the TEMPLE, they venerated the ARC, the THORA, etc...
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@bazzvy: They even PROSTRATED BEFORE THE PROPHETS, the ANGELS etc...God even punished those who did not HONOR THEM. Read the life of the great Prophet Eliaja
They even DANCED BEFORE THE ARC as sign of VENERATION - DAVID FOR EXAMPLE.
Also in the New Testament. Go and read the ACTS of the Apostles.
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@adamantis4657 I'm gonna be the "bigger" man and apologise, so you dont have to (because you probably won't). I don't wish to fight. May the Lord shed light upon you! Be blessed, brother/sister!
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy: It is funny how u quote the Bible and even don't know the "basics" - because the 10 commandments belong to the "basics".
When u read your Bible carefully (which is an orthodox book and not that of protestants) u will see that the Apostles and Saints are honored there. There are many things HONORED in the Bible.
This whole unbiblical nonsense u are posting here comes from protestant deception which are SECTS and HERETICS and are condamned by the Holy Church.
adamantis4657 4 months ago
@adamantis4657 It is funny how you seem to haven't read the book of Hebrews. Paul cearly states that the Law (or the ten comandments) are not for the holy, but for the sinners. Paul regrets havin read the Law Romans 7:7 but recognises its' need Romans 7:12-14 but he says that we are no longer in debt towards the Law. We respond not to the Law but to Christ Galatians 3:24 Also, he says that Jesus is above the Law, that the Law is no longer necessary for those who live udner Christ Ephesians 2:15
bazzvy 4 months ago
@bazzvy: THE LAW IS NO LONGER NECESSARY!
WOW - that was really biblical! LOL
So u want to say that the 10 commandments are not necessary anymore? I thought Christ did not come to abolish but to fullfill?
So u want to say there is NO NEED TO HONOR YOUR PARENTS? U CAN HAVE MANY GODS, U CAN FORNICATE and LIE?
WOW - that was funny really and really christian!
adamantis4657 4 months ago
great video. it's really good to know that there still are followers of Christ right now. God bless.
eternaltavi8 5 months ago
i wish i could have some of that holy oil streaming from the icons
hotlanta35 6 months ago
@hotlanta35: There is no problem! U can receive such Myrrhon for free. Send me a PM - and I will look that u get some.
adamantis4657 6 months ago
CHRSITIANITY = HATE
CHRISTIANITY = VULGARITY
CHRISTIANITY = EVIL
CHRISTIANITY = CANCER TO SOCIETY
jacmia 7 months ago
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 hmmmm since it has caused the most wars, murders and hate bewteen people ! oh wait ... you're right that doesn't matter ! so long as you believe in God it's ok to kill unrelentlessly ....
Christianity set us back 1500 years .... if it were up to Christians we wold still believe the eart was flat, earthquakes are the wrath of God and the stars are portholes that the angels use to spy on us
CHRISTIANITY = PURE HATE
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: Hmmm - really! Wow u must be very educated ha? Because when I look to history - I can see that most WARS were caused by ATHEISTS!
Flat earth has nothing to do with christianity because the Holy Fahters and also ancient philophers have known that the earth must be round like an egg. Go and study the great Fathers of the christian faith and u will see.
Only the roman church quarrelled on such topics - which is not the the "topic" of the church!
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 Most modern day wars were created by Atheists ? what University taught you that ? The church held for years that the Earth was flat and then that the Sun spun around the Earth ... remember Galileo ? you need to get better informed and not believe something just because the church said so !
jacmia 6 months ago
@jacmia: WOW - after so much time u have returned! LOL -and again with the same silly conclusions. LOL
Go and study history - especially the history of the middle ages. Search "flat earth" theory and u will see that ONLY A FEW believed in flat earth. The christian FATHERS did not.
Go and read Socrates - he allready has known that the earth is ROUND like an egg. Go and read the Bible - there u can find expressions like: All the ROUND of the EARTH.
Church Fathers...etc...
adamantis4657 6 months ago
@adamantis4657 you believe in a fairy tale and I'm silly .... riiiight !
jacmia 6 months ago
@jacmia: Look, it is always the same with u. U post nonsense - than u are away for weeks and later u return again and post the same nonsense.
Open your spiritual eyes! Pray to God (what can u loose?) before it is too late. No one knows how long life is....when u die it is too late.
God loves u! Return to Him - he is waiting. No one can life without Him. May God bless u! AMEN
adamantis4657 6 months ago
@jacmia: No u need education! And u need to put aside your HATE. U are the hater here. U are full of anger...
Until your soul is not healed u will not see "clear" - u are blinded by hate!
adamantis4657 6 months ago
@jacmia: I think u have NO CLUE what christianity is or what a true christian is.
I think u never met any real christian!
In your behaviour it is u who spreads HATE here and not the christians!
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 are you serious ? what university did you go to ?
jacmia 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 I was raised Chrsitian and attended Marista then Jesuit schools .... this is just one example of the hate of Christians .... in a span of 400 years Christians killed 9 million ... yes 9 MILLION women alone for helping ease the pain of childbirth as they were branded as witches .... that doesn't include the inquisition, crusades (where in one single invasion they killed over 100,000) that's not violent ? then the witchunts in salem, their alliance with Hitler
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: Raised christian - I know what that means = PSEUDY CHRISTIANITY! Like those crazy fundamentalists in USA - they are sooo far from being christian.
U know - as I have told u , I know history VERY WELL. What u mention here is not the history of christianity. And not even history. It is a very one sided and hatefull depiction of what u call history.
1.) The catholic church is not christianity
2.) U never mention all the good that christianity has brought
3.) U are not objective
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 You and I probably agree on many things, but be careful thinking that there are *that* many literal fundies here in the US. They are a minority, even among evangelicals. The ones to worry about are the Word of Faith and the Give to Get charlatans. Jacmia is one of those that latches on to the lies of the anti-Christian world. 9 million "witches"? Only the political axe-grinder and sad wiccan witchiepoo trots out that number in order to bolster their self-importance.
mpa000 6 months ago
@jacmia 1) You really must start providing citations for these claims. 9,000,000? Cite please.
2) The Crusades were defensive wars against Mohametan aggression. Were there atrocities? Absolutely. Were those atrocities "Xtian"? No. Unlike other religions, Xtianity does not call its adherents to violence. It demands the opposite. That being said, even the purest water is contaminated when placed in rusty vessels.
3) Hitler used the German churches. Read the Nazi's own words, please.
mpa000 6 months ago
@mpa000 One of the Crusades aimed Constantinople, Christian city.
Which is no wonder, if you consider that Catholic Church is heretical sect.
There are Christians who never had inquistion, crusades, holocausts, who themselves were victims of all of these. And who were not found by some Joseph Smith or other protestant "teachers" but by Christ and apostiles 2000 years ago.
Htogrom 6 months ago 18
@Htogrom A pity, my friend, that whenever some youtube atheist starts discussing religion with me, they start exhibiting lack of knowledge of history with great ignorance. perhaps it is us, the orthodox, who have a strong need for knowing our origins.
giorgiv18 3 months ago
@Htogrom Joseph smith is not a Protestant teacher. he is the Leader of a Cult that he fabricated. BIG difference.
believerintheword 2 months ago
@believerintheword His cult is direct product of protestant philosophy.
Pure materialism, negation of any kind of holiness, negation of eternal life. Care only for wordily, not for spiritual. Negation of ritual. Failure to understand metaphorical truths, failure to understand value and meaning of iconography. Thus all these weird comparisons.
That is pretty much what most protestants and Joseph Smith share.
Htogrom 2 months ago
@Htogrom hey, I got your response. I personaly dont have a problem with Orthodoxy. I am looking into it and researching some stuff. I disagree with half of your statements about Mormons and protestants being the same. we believe in Holiness, eternal Life, and Love the woridly (bible) and Spiritual. I'm not sure what you mean my metaphorical truths. I would actualy put Orthodoxy and Mormons together on Rituals. The Mormons have TONS of secret rituals they do. I find iconography unnecessary.
believerintheword 2 months ago
@believerintheword You can't really compare Mormons with Orthodox. Mormon's exist how long? 200 years at beast? Orthodox Church exists for 2000 years. We did never have to invent anything, we just followed what was left to us by apostiles.
You comparison could be than extended to Satanic church. They also have secret rituals.
If you want to know more about orthodoxy check this out. One of the greatest Orthodox historians in America:
piousfabrications (dot) com
Htogrom 2 months ago
@Htogrom All protestant churches reject Joseph Smith and the Mormons, Jehovis Witnesses, Christian science, and other cults. we have much more in common with you than we do with them. I Love Jesus, I believe he is God in the flesh, I believe in the Trinity, I believe in babtism, I believe in Holy communion (maby not like you but I dont know) I believe that my salvation brings good works that Christ has set up for us to do. I only find a few things we dont agree on , but the esentials are there
believerintheword 2 months ago
@believerintheword Anyway you are on the good path. God bless you!
Htogrom 2 months ago
@Htogrom - The Orthodox Church was responsible for pogroms against Jews, making it responsible for the death of countless humans.
EvertonFooty 3 weeks ago
@EvertonFooty Of course when we investigate how countless that was we get to number of 2000-4000 Jews, mainly atheists, anarchists and Marxists who plotted to overthrow Tzar. Of course, later they grabbed the power in Russia, brutally killed Tzar and his family. Killed 90% of priests and monks, and killed between 70-100 million Russians, mainly Orthodox.
Jews hated Tzar because he removed their banking privileges, and gave land to peasants, who could not be exploited any more.
Htogrom 3 weeks ago
@EvertonFooty: I am not interested in Progroms either!
What I am interested in is IF ORTHODOXY IS THE TRUE FAITH OR NOT.
Also Jews made Progroms - how many people were killed by JEWS? So u will find progroms in EVERY NATION and RELIGION.
I only know that the Monks form Mount Athos - BROKE THEIR TRADITION and they have hidden many Jews in their monasteries. IT IS WELL KNOWN that they kept jewish women and kids. (THIS WAS AGAINST ATHONITE TRADITION) but they saved their lives
adamantis4657 3 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 How about the invasion of the Americas in the name of Christianity ? they absolutely annihilated all the Island Indians and the bloodbath that ensued in the continental Americas was devastating . !!! The Protestan reformation saw thousand of unjust murders !! wherever Christianity exists there's bloodbath and violence ... Christianity has murdered more innocent people than any ruler, empire or war .... ITS VIOLENT
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: Open your eyes full of hate:
Was the invasion of AMERICA really done in the name of CHRISTIANITY? Was it not more about to gain more gold and wealth etc....
It was not done because of christianity! U mix up here two different things.
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 if the invasion of America was not done in the name of Christ then why were the natives forced to convert or die ? (HMMM PRETTY VIOLENT) ... I was raised in Latin America and the teachers at the school were from Spain, Italy and local .... so nope ..... no pseudo USA Christianity. (By the way I also went to school in France ... et je parle Francais
Without catholicism christianity would not have spread so obviously you don't know your history at all
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: The problem here is that u are full of hate - not me the christian!
U try to show that christianity has killed etc...but that is not true. The invasion was not done to bring christianity to other people but to gain richness and new lands - it was done because of greedy people and not of TRUE CHRISTIANS
AGAIN - U MIX UP THINGS HERE - to demonstrate what u want to
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 Additionally if you really knew your history you would kow that the birth of Christianity as an organized religion was due to Constantine when he forced (the easy way or the hard way) Romans to accept Christianity ... so even at its' birth it was riddled in blood and violence
CHRISTIANITY = SEVERE HATE
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: THE ONLY ONE SPREADING HATE IS U HERE! Isn't that funny? LOL
Christianity was founded at Pentecoste through the Holy Spirit and not by Constantine the great.
Go and study history again!
adamantis4657 7 months ago
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@adamantis4657 I'm not spreading hate, I'm simply telling the truth ... I haven't killed anybody ... we have had the church for that ... and why do you keep avoiding the question ? what University taught you that it was not Constantine, through the council of nycea, who cemented Chrsitianity as an organized religion ? what University taught you that 3 invinsible beings decended to give us the new testament ?
jacmia 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 Are you denying that the first copy of the new testament was commissioned by Constantine ? are seriously going to deny hard facts that have been concretely researched ? in your opinion it was delivered by 3 mythical beings ? and you're telling me I don't know my history ?
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: COPY of NEW TESTAMENT! LOL Again I have to laugh.
Do u know the history of the Holy Bible? Do u know all its Scriptures? Do u know Holy Tradition? Do u know the Holy Apostles? Do u know the Septuaginta? Do u know the Apocryphs......
I think u know nothing about the Bible or its history. I think u also don't know anything about the Holy Fathers....
U see, u said u were raised christian - but u know NOTHING about christianity! Funny ha?
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 of course I know ... Although the jesuit school i went to was more interested in faith than history the maristas did cover plenty. The septuagint was ordered by a Ptolemy pharao. The Ptolemy's were decendants of Alexander the Great and therefore Greek who understood learning for educations' sake. They were neither Jewish nor christian. I know A LOT about Christianity and its' one sided "you shall not Queation !" mentality which keeps people like you in dark !
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: LOL - from your silly posts I can see that u know nothing about christianity and nothing about history!
Go and search what the "dark ages" have been! U are like a parrot - only repeating silly stuff what u have heard - perhaps on TV. TV is not the best source for education my friend.
ARCHITECTURE - go and look thos cathedrals of the "DARK AGES" - go and look some libraries of those DARK AGES. BOOK, STUDIES...etc.....
Medicine, philosophy....etc....
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 Architechture is not science and again the concepts were borrowed not invented ... now tell me again what SCIENTIFIC advancements came from Christianity ? and of course arts and architechture were flourishing ... there was enough money to support it from the corrupt Christian church and you say that catholicsm isn't Christianity ? well to a billion Catholics it is as they believe in the mythical jesus ... how arrogant of you to dimiss them ... arrogance is not vey Christian !
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: I did not say that Architecture is Science! U should learn to read more carefully. I tried to show that the middle ages were not as dark as u wished to.
ALL SCIENTIFIC CAME FROM CHRISTIANS - have u read my POSTS? Without christianity we even would not have institutions like UNIVERSITIES. LOL
When u look at those ancient Universities u even can see the spirit of ancient monasteries because those universities are the outcome of the monastic life.
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@jacmia:
How arrugant from U - to say catholicism is = CHRISTIANITY!
CHRIST is the TRUE GOD and not mythical. Can u prove HIM to be mythical or is only a silly believe? LOL
How can u know that arrugance is not christian? And how can u say it when christianity is soo full of hate? And corrupted?
LOL - u contradict yourself! Funny ha?
And why u always judge others with EXACT your OWN SINS.
Until now I only have see HATE coming from u! FUNNY HA
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@jacmia: My VERY PERSONAL impressions is:
THAT U HATE CHRISTIANITY because U ARE HOMOSEXUAL MAYBE! Because u always come to homosexuality again.???
And because the Church is against Homosexuality - u hate the church and u try to depict is bad and corrupted.
Am I right?
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 I'm not but it certainly shows how backwards Christian mentality is and a true testament of their hateful beliefs
So far you claim that the Church fermented scientific thought so how come there's not 1 Invention during Christian rule ???
youre are using the word "University" loosely ... it was not open to the public and taught only theology and mathematics ... science was a tabboo .... where do you get your information ???
jacmia 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 I have read the Bible many times .... It's a well written fairy tale. What's important is the moral of the story ... just like any Fairy tale .... its' not meant to be a literal translation RIDDLED WITH CONTRADICTION ! you my friend have not analyzed it ... you understand what someone wants you to understand ONLY ... like cattle ! which by the way ... I will send you by e-mail a response from a Chrsitian thread to show show you how "peaceful" Christians are
jacmia 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 not to mention the degradation of women, the hate of homosexuals, and the worst ... setting us back 1500 years in science ... It's a good atheists were around to fix the science issue. PS if you like your modern living ... you have only atheists to thank !
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: Your views are not correct.
1.) True christianity does not degrade women (remember God created both in his image)
2.) christianity does not HATE homosexuals - christianity does not hate persons - but sins
3.) Modern science is the outcome of christian culture
4.) Atheism is the destrucion of society - go to Russia and eastern europe
U see u are not objective - your views are wishfull thinking!
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 modern science ? The church suppressed modern knowledge .... they didn't invent it ! you could be burned alive for suggesting the existence of microbes ... what history did you study ? what accredited university taught you that Christianity was the inventor of modern science ?
Your statement of Homosexuality is worded to make yourself feel better ... it would be like telling saying God doesn't hate blondes ... just the ones with hair ... the bald ones are fine ! SILLY
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: WRONG!
The church was the founder of modern SCIENCE - that is a FACT. The church always was interested in SCIECE. Why do u think the great Saints founded the first Universities in Europe? Why do u think the Seminaries have been the best schools. Why do u think EVERY MONASTERY has a large library? Why do u think many monks were great Scientists?
So u are deadly wrong! LOL
Why do u think modern science was BORNE in a christian culture and not in a muslim or buddhist?
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 what University did you go to ? please tell me what University failed to mention that science has been in existence for millenia .... Christianity supressed and manipulated it ... NAME ONE MEDICINE, ONE CURE, ONE INVENTION TO ENHANCE HUMAN LIFE THAT CAME FROM YOUR SUPPOSED SCIENTIST MONKS
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: Homosexuality:
NO, it is not silly. It is the truth. We do not HATE PERSONS - but we have to hate SIN - which is a seperation of GOD.
We do not hate prostitutes but we hate fornication, we do not hate liars but we hate lie....
Did CHRIST hate the prostitute? NO - but He told Her - Go and do not sin again!
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 That doesn't even warrant an asnwer "hate the sin not the sinner" is an Oxymoron .... Christians ferment hate
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: NO AGAIN THE LAST TIME:
There is a big difference between hating SIN - and SINNERS. WE ALL ARE SINNERS - no one is without sin.
The sin seperates from God - that is what we hate: seperation from God. Sin does not mean to break a moral code or rule - sins means: A-MARTIA - out of the way - for union with God.
U ferment hate!
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 again that sentence is an Oxymoron "hate the sin not the sinner" ... homosexuality is a normal state demonized by the ignorance and hate-filled doctrine of the church
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: It sounds like u be a homosexual? ;)
HOMOSEXUALITY is not a normal state! Like many other "states" my friend.
The doctrine of the church is LOVE_FILLED. The doctrine LOVES GOD and than MAN.
We have to take your crosses and follow CHRIST and not our pleasures! May it be homosexuality or heterosexuality etc....it does not matter.
What matters if we try to follow CHRIST!
adamantis4657 7 months ago
Scientists were mainly Atheists ... if you like vaccines, if you like modern conveniences, if you feel modern medicine is ok you have only atheists to thank !!! I'm still curious what University taught you this ? CHRISTIANITY SET US BACK 1500 YEARS !!!!! no one taught you about Galileo ? no ? have you seen the models of the solar system created by the church ? It's all wrong ! please tell me which was the fantastic invention that hristianity produced ?
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: LOL - modern medicine. Wow u are uneducated. Go and search were modern medicine is coming from. U will find many books and studies from the middle ages - written by monks and clerics. LOL
Also great Doctors of the middle ages were christians! Go and search for Paracelsus, St. Albertus Magnus....they were even interested in Alchemy....etc..
Solar system - have u read my POST? The Holy Fathers of the 3rd and 4th century have known that the earth must be round.
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 Here is where your extreme level of education shines .... The Doctors in the middle Ages and their books reccomended bleeding a person to treat a disease ... additionally Monks didn't write the books because they weren't discovering anything ... they were simply translating from the Pagan books stolen and smmugled into Christian territories ... did you even know that Christians were the last to burn the Library at Alexandria at which they stole many upon many works !
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: LOL - your low level of education shines brightly!
Universities:
In the United Kingdom, the earliest university-type establishment was probably the College, established by the Celtic preacher St. Illtyd in about AD 500. Oxford University was established by various religious orders. Likewise, Cambridge University was established in 1209 by Christian leaders. Saint Andrews, Scotland’s oldest university, was founded principally for the teaching and study of theology.
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 Again you're talking about Christian schools ... the Univertsity was a concept that was borrowed not invented. Plus the curriculum of these Universities was purely of mathematecial practicality and theology. Classical litearture was banned and allowed to be read by priests ... not the entire population ... not truly a center of learning as you paint it ! I think you need to research your history instead of believing what anybody tells you .. thats how ignorance starts !
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: WOW - are u uneducated!
The origin of many medieval universities can be traced to the Christian cathedral schools or monastic schools which appear as early as the 6th century AD and were run for hundreds of years as such before their formal establishment as university in the high medieval period.[3]
THE FIRST UNIVERSITY IN EUROPE IS SAID TO BE FOUNDED BY ST: CLEMENT OF OHRID IN ABOUT
800
Go and learn some FACTS!
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 Wow is right .... thats the first University in Europe ... not in the World ... with stolen knowledge and It taught for 200 years that the Sun revolved around the Earth ... why don't you get your facts straight because you sound like an uneducated arrogant liar
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: Why don't u get your FACTS straith? LOL
And why are u stubborn and ignorant? Because I alrready have told u that those topics are not the business of the church - not religious topics.
And that CHRISTIANITY did not believe in that theory and that to say CATHOLICISM = CHRISTIANITY is also not correct.
Learn to distinguish! LOL
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 what you see as stubborn is what aggressive hateful Christians perceive as an attack (because Christians are so used to being violent). I have carefully considered both sides of the coin and it's impossible that the story is true ... its a Myth that uses fear to make the weak minded believe in a folk tale for the purpose of control ..... you should thank me ! I'm giving you knowledge that you simply should investigate not judge ... wait I forgot Judging is what Christians do best
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia:
1.) LOL - AGAIN - u are aggressive here not the christians! Again it is funny that u always accuse other of YOUR OWN FAULTS. This is called PROJECTION in psychology.
2.) U do not know "BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN" - because from your silly posts I can see that u know nothing about CHRISTIANITY.
3.) HAHAH - u really make me laugh. Judging - AGAIN u are judging here and not christians. I did not judge u - but judged me.
Isn' that funny?
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@jacmia: AGAIN:
What I can see from your posts is something different. It is not about looking for truth or know "both sides". There is something VERY PERSONAL. I do not know what "experiences" u made.
But I can see that there is something wrong with u!
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 About Christianity not being correct ... it was the dominating force for 1500 years ... so what you're trying to tell me is that God allowed Millions to be killed in his name, allowed human suffering beyond anything we know today ... I emphasize for 1500 yeas of pure damage to humanity ... so that your congregation toaday could get it right ? and I'm the ignorant one ... my friend you need to buy an alarm clock so you can wake up and see things for what they are
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: Go study history again AND LOOK CAREFULLY why those people were killed! Look if they really were killed because of Religion or CHRISTIANITY.
The Catholic Church IS ONE - the most important in the WEST - nothing more. What about the Oriental Churches? What about the Holy Orthodox Church? etc...
But u like to pick out the catholic church because u think it fits in your picture of HATE.
U spread HATE! LOL
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 The flat earth comment was a atyrical statement but they believed for at least 300 years that the sun spun around the earth ... It wasn't until the French revolution that religious mentality dwindled and finally Atheists like Marie Curie and Pasteur were able to usher modern science. Additionally, for over 1,300 years you could be killed (and were killed) for being Atheist ... therefore scientist had to hide their true beliefs
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia:
1.) As I have told u - they even discussed such topic in ancient times; the ancient philosophers - and also the Church Fathers of the 3rd and 4th century.
2.) Flat earth etc...is not the business of the Church - the salvation of men is her business not discussing biology or geography or astronomy
3.) Only ONE CHURCH discussed that topic - THE CATHOLIC CHURCH - u are speaking abut CHRISTIANITY - christianity is not = CATHOLICISM
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657
Define ancient times ... The priestly class (both in Eastern orthdox and Catholicism) were allowed to study but not repeat what they learned (you never heard of monastic silence ... really ? and you claim to know Christian History) ... Christianity supressed modernlearning to the point that the scientific method was supressed and scientists had to do experimentation underground ...
jacmia 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 PLEASE STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION ... WHAT ACCREDITED UNIVERSITY TAUGHT YOU ALL THIS ? I'M REALLY CURIOUS TO KNOW WHICH FINE ESTABLISHMENT TAUGHT YOU THAT CONSTANTINE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FOUNDATION OF CHRISTIANITY AS AN ORGANIZED RELIGION AND THAT EUROPEAN UNIVERSITIES WERE A BEACON OF LEARNING FOR THE PUBLIC
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia. ALL GOOD UNIVERSITIES TAUGHT THAT BECAUSE IT IS A FACT! LOL
Go and get some education and return and we can go on. ;)
Church history - the church was established and organized long before Constantine. Constantine only set it free in the roman empire. Even some Saints were against that "liberation".
The persecution ended that time - later some roman emperors AGAIN started to persecute it.
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER ME .... YOU CALL YOURSELF EDUCATED RIGHT ? WHAT ACCREDITED UNIVERSITY TAUGHT YOU THIS HISTORIC TIMELINE ? WHAT UNIVERSITY TAUGHT YOU THE IDEA THAT THE CHURCH WAS A BEACON OF SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE ? WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER ? why do Christians always avoid answering direct questions ? you keep writing LOL and using words like uneducated but you cannot back up anything you say ... NAME AN SCIENTIFIC BREAKTHROUGH THAT WAS PRODUCED BY CHRISTIANITY IN THE DARK AGES ?
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia Gregar Mendal.- genetics- Catholic Monk
johny260 6 months ago
@johny260 Mendal was Post French Revolution .... a period which introduced reason (The way it should be and truthfully is) ..... Read craefully ... I asked over an invention during the Dark ages or when the church ruled Europe .... and there were discoveries but they had to be researched underground ... Priests caught performing an autopsy for research (for example) were burned alive .... yeah real progress !!!!!
jacmia 6 months ago
@jacmia Shall we than talk about guillotines of French revolution? Where best French nobles were killed and martyred and whores were crowned as queens of reason.
Or shall we talk about another "reason" revolution. Russian revolution, which in the name of progress, communism and materialism had killed more than 70 million lives. Just Lenin and Trotsky took about 30 million. Priests, monks and believers were killed or prisoned just because they were Orthodox!
Htogrom 6 months ago
Or shall we talk about Crusades your US is performing all around the world?
US killed more people than Hitler. Bombing small nations like mine in the name of "democracy" and "human rights".
Land that was found on greatest genocide in history teaches others about human rights...
You can investigate history of Orthodox. It was always martyred, never martyring. We were greatest victim of inquisition, crusades, holocaust. Why don't your media tell you that?
Htogrom 6 months ago
@Htogrom The "crusades" performed by the U.S. are not in the name of Christianity ... you're mixing hate for the U.S. with religious fervor (bad bad Christian !)..... Now the Bolshevik and French revolution were not primarily done in the name of Atheism .... Atheism was adopted as measure of reason to counter-attack the Christian faction of the Nobility ... ALL THOSE KILLINGS WERE NOT DONE IN THE NAME OF ATHEISM .... There's not one document in existance that even remotely suggests that.
jacmia 6 months ago
@jacmia Maybe you are right. Maybe pure atheism is not what fueled massive killings of monks, priests and believers in Russia. Maybe better name for it would be satanism (being against God).
But, you must understand that atheism was integral part of that thinking. All of them, Lenin, Stalin, Marx became first atheists, and later developed their own ideology. Atheism is great breeding ground for that kind of ideologies.
I don't think there's ever pure atheism.
Htogrom 6 months ago
@Htogrom and although in the later parts of the French Revolution you could be killed for believing in Christianity .... it was a mode of revolt towards the oppresive church nobility ... the idea was to rid the republic of all oppresive actions ..... the demise of the revolution was due mainly to its' unmoderated fundamental beliefs ... which is how Christians behave (They are no different ... murderers, hate-instigators and elitist ... the ultimate brainwashing machine)
jacmia 6 months ago
@jacmia Excuse me, that is the same rhetoric Communists used. To rid the state from all oppresive actions.
Monks who devoted their whole life into helping poor, children, widows, who built schools, hospitals, orphanages were brutally murdered or deported to Siberia. Their actions were opresive?
And thus in 70 years of communism we never saw communist man like St John of Kronstad. Communists didn't bothered to care about poor, sick, small like he did.
Htogrom 6 months ago
@Htogrom hmmmm of course thats the same rethoric that communist used .... I'm not agreeing with them, I'm explaining the reason they were atheists ... to counter attack the oppresiveness of the church. So the church was the main culprit in turning men into atheists. Additionally we don't believe in the afterlife so we cherish our human experience more so than any Christian. We believe in not hurting any one because we have one life so love your neighbor for that concrete reason.
jacmia 6 months ago
@jacmia Protestant Church had lead humanity to atheism. But Protestant and Catholic Churches are not only Churches in the world. Why do you think there was no reformation in the East?
What human experience? Life is only one? Life is only one, let's have lot's drug, sex and alcohol. We'r gonna die anyway. We seen that develop already in the West.
Htogrom 6 months ago
And here it is, one nice example how history that you read works.
Russian Orthodox Tzar Ivan Grozni (Ivan the terrible), was presented as brutal dictator, his reign as bloody orgy.
Historical documents reveal that Ivan killed 4000-5000, people. Most of them Bojars (oligarchs) and Khazars.
Now, in France, just in one night more than 10 000 Huguenots killed in one day. Spainsh, German, English kings of time killed more than half a million people. And somehow Ivan is terrible.
Htogrom 6 months ago
@jacmia You show an astonishing lack of understanding of both the French Revolution and history in general. You blame Xtianity for the actions of its abusers (in most cases Euro-trash nobility that dominated the church and abused Xtian and non-Xtian alike). The real villain of the past 2 millenia is Tribal Europe, which was never Xtianised and remains a sesspool of human behaviour. Don't blame Xtianity for the non-Xtian behaviour of those who fed and continue to feed on the Body like parasites.
mpa000 6 months ago
@Htogrom Provide a cite to back up "US killed more people than Hitler". It might actually be true, given that the US has existed for 23 decades and Hitler was in power for 1. Your "small" nation seems to have done a pretty good job at killing. I wonder if the people of Srebrenica would rather have US or Yugoslav army to deal with or if the thousands of Bosnian refugees taken in by US Catholics would have the same opinion of your "small country". Wasn't it Serb violence that triggered WW1?
mpa000 6 months ago
@mpa000 And why didn't your Western media told you about 3500 massacred Serbian civilians in Srebrenica from 1992 to 1995? How come Naser Oric that killed them is a hero?
Serb violence trigered WW1? Intelligent man can understand difference between cause and inducement (handle) of war. Austro Hungary was waiting for oppurtinity to attack Serbia, and would do that in one way or another. And how come punishing entire nation for sin of one man goes with your "human rights"?
Ah yes, Dresden...
Htogrom 6 months ago
@Htogrom It is absolutely true that Bosnian Serbs suffered because of what Mladic and his overseers did and the response of the Bosnians. I will not dispute that. I will dispute, however, your numbers. In all of Podrinje (not just Srebrenica) there were 5,573 Serbs killed and 870 (15%) were civilian. That makes it a little hard to support your number of 3500 massacred civilians.
Dresden was a military target, despite what irresponsible AP stories and Goebbels' propaganda suggested.
mpa000 6 months ago
@mpa000 Your don't even think before writing.
How could Serbs be killed around Srebrenica as response of Bosnians in advance? Did Bosnians maybe know or planed they would be massacred in 1995, so they killed Serbs in advance?
As far as your statistics goes, I would really not comment something such stupid. You can find yourself Serbian villages around Srebrenica, oh yes, you can't they had been wiped out.
Your media is Goebbels
Htogrom 6 months ago
@Htogrom . And, btw, I'm sorry my sarcasm didn't come through as far as Franz Ferdinand's assassination being the root cause of WW1 rather than a triggering point.
I will suggest, however, that the assassination was a meta-effect of the entire dynamic going on at the time. Ferdinand was the main obstacle to Serbian independence, if I remember my history correctly, while being fairly liberal regarding autonomy among others. In the end, Europe is what it always has been. A tribal mess.
mpa000 6 months ago
@mpa000 What you have against Serbian independence?
Excuse me, but Austro Hungary anexed Bosnia prior to WWI. How is that legal in any terms.
And, sin of one man, who by no means represented official Serbia is enough to punish whole nation? Of course it is not hard for you to take that. Several times your nation staged events that justified destruction of whole nations (Iraq, Afganistan...).
In the end America will always be stupid melting pot.
Htogrom 6 months ago
@Htogrom don't forget japan.
giorgiv18 4 months ago
@jacmia: So there is NO FLAT EARTH THEORY - when some catholics have denied that. There was another reason for.
It is not the MAIN buisness of the Church to discuss topic like that. That is to mix up spirituality with biology.
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 They Christians believed many many upon many erroneous things ... every mildly educated person (not scholars ... anyone that went to a normal school) knows that Galileo was persecuted for saying that the earth orbited around the sun and not the other way around ! see in the Christian mind its' better tpo keep the masses ignorant (like you are now) than to allow any path to discover their lies
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia Ummmm... please read some history. Galileo got himself in trouble for making fun of the Pope, who was, like many historical Popes, only nominally a Christian and mainly a power broker.
mpa000 6 months ago
see you are not objective .... If you wanted to be educated in the dark ages (ps called the dark ages for a reason and headed by christianity) ... you needed to do it through the curch .. why not have open public Universities or colleges ? The christian church could put a woman to death for learning to read !!! and you say they haven't downgraded women and that they were the beacon of was to become modern civilization ? no wonder you still believe in the boogy man (satan)
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: DARK AGES: LOL
Go and study if they REALLY HAVE BEEN DARK AGES!
I do not believe in boogy man - I know that he exists. If u like I can pray that u know him too? Do u want to experience Him? That whish can be fullifilled.
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 The Dark ages was funny to you ? The period where humanity suffered the most ? typical Chrsitian ... they rejoice in human suffering .... please tell me and stop avoiding the question .... what accredited University taught you that during the Dark Ages Christianity was NOT the ruling power and which University taiught you that Constantine was not responsible for spreading Christianity as a religion (For 400 so years it was more of a Jewish sect .... Please educate yourself
jacmia 7 months ago
@jacmia: U should educate yourself! Constantine procclaimed the " edict of liberty" - that the christian religion should not be persecuted anymore.
It is said that he later converted to christianity and was baptised - he also had the Vision of the Holy Cross:
I hoc singnum vicem - u shalt triumph in that sign!
That was not the foundation of CHRISTIANITY!
adamantis4657 7 months ago
@adamantis4657 he also sent mercenaries through the Balkans and forced citizens to accept Christianity by the sword ... where do you get your information ? Before Constantine there was no new testament written. A letter by paul from 40 years down the line ... That's all we have to support that fantastic tale
jacmia 7 months ag