For those would like another solution option or if the 12 step program it's working for your I would highly recommend the Brain Treatment Center. Their technology and results speak for themselves.
Hank Hayes Author of "You’ve Been Lied To…The Untold Truth about Mainstream Alcohol and Addiction Treatment Programs and the Secrets on How to Eliminate the Problem for Good."
Disease mongering is the practice of widening the diagnostic boundaries of illnesses, and promoting public awareness of such, in order to expand the markets for those who sell and deliver treatments, which may include pharmaceutical companies, physicians, and other professional or consumer organizations.
The only thing that I did to treat myself of pornography addiction, which I was addicted for over 7 years, was to withdraw from it completely. I have now been 'sober' for 15 weeks now, and I hope to continue that. Good luck to you all that are withdrawing from pornography.
Aloha! My dad (Dick B.) has written more than 40 titles on why early A.A. succeeded (DickB dot com) and now has a channel on YouTube: "dickbchannel". What are your thoughts on his work? Thank you. Ken B.
Hammersley 1967, I've noticed that you post regularily on these videos about addiction to criticize 12 step programs and the medical model of addiction. This trend of medicalizing every social problem under the sun really irritates me and the disease model is about the worst example of this. I'm glad I'm not the only one speaking against this trend.
"I'm glad I'm not the only one speaking against this trend."
Unfortunately, within the lay community, we are amongst the very few...
Within academic circles,as you can see in this video, we would be amongst more numerous company - but still in the minority...
Nonetheless, I have faith in human rationality and expect that the "understanding" of addictive behaviour at this point in time will be looked back upon by our future successors as a quaint little period of folk science...
Apparently, there are a lot of people who do well with 12 step programs. I don't think anyone wants to deny free access to AA or NA meetings. My only objection is that the vast majority of addiction counselors and rehabs offer only a 12 step approach with little or no mention of alternative methods. That's just cheating your client and it's unprofessional to withold useful information.
"there are a lot of people who do well with 12 step programs"
There are...
But unfortunately, the research shows that for every person for whom the 12 step model is effective for, there are 19 for whom it is unsuitable and ineffective for...
@Hammersley1967 I agree that 12 step programs don't work very well for most people. If more 12 step people would recognize that, I would be happy for them and be on my way. But the dominant attitude right now is that alternative methods are somehow considered to be the exception to the rule, so they are marginalized.
@Hammersley1967 I know that 97% of treatment centers push a program that works for less than half the population. It's ironic . Why can't they face the fact that there's a lot of different schools of thought going on today... Oh I know... It's because AA got there first and so it dominates the recovery landscape.
12Step program are predominatly religious in nature,most of these programs should be suite for 1St. Amendmne Violaltion and have them pay back all the money wasted in treatment.12 Step programs do not get close to any thing any one else would call treatment,and preferr to blame their patients for their incompetent work.
The medical "researchers" don't actually articulate what is specifically "wrong" with the addict and/or alcoholic "brain". In fact they seems to suggest that every substance dependent has a unique "dysfunction" (some parts of the brain "under-perform" whereas other parts "over-perform").
Every brain works uniquely. No two brains are exactly the same...
Sounds like faith-based healing using the medical MODEL and the RELIGION of "scientism" to me...
@Hammersley1967 Those researchers didn't explain their methods in enough detail to really assess their usefulness. Maybe addictive cravings can be measured this way. It still doesn't take the place of personal choice and the responsibility of the addict to make that difficult decision to quit, though. As long as these researchers don't spout the line that you are powerless to make that choice for yourself, I think they could be onto something.
@Hammersley1967 The disease model crosses the line when they consider behavior to be a disease. If they'd just state that there are brain changes associated with addiction and stop there, it would be OK.
@Hammersley1967 The disease model crosses the line when they consider behavior to be a disease. If they'd just state that there are brain changes associated with addiction and stop there, it would be OK. I don 't doubt that brain changes can influence your behavior, but no one can tell me that an addict is incapable of making the choice to quit, regardless of how hard it is to do so. That doesn't mean you have to do it alone.
"The disease model crosses the line when they consider behavior to be a disease. If they'd just state that there are brain changes associated with addiction and stop there"
Unfortunately, the brain changes when fear or anger is acutely and chronically experienced and expressed as well...
Should we call fear and anger disease?
Where does it end?
It seems that we have lost control of the concept (which is all the disease model is)...
@Hammersley1967 Of course, the disease model isn't just about chemicals and neural connections. Everything we do, think or feel is mediated by neural connections. The disease model is really about defining addiction as a thought disorder. It's the belief that the addiction has so thoroughly taken over your mind that you are incapable of making rational decisions so you must be forever "in recovery". What scares me is that most people don't realize the Orwellian implications of this.
@Hammersley1967 Of course, the disease model isn't just about chemicals and neural connections. Everything we do, think or feel is mediated by neural connections. The disease model is really about defining addiction as a thought disorder. It's the belief that the addiction has so thoroughly taken over your mind that you are incapable of making rational decisions so you must be forever "in recovery". What scares me is that most people don't realize the Orwellian implications of this.
"The disease model is really about defining addiction as a thought disorder."
I LIKE THAT!!!
That's a REALLY GOOD way of putting it!
THOUGHT DISORDER
But why should we go all the way to the disease conception?
And you are right.
When we go all the way to disease conception it tends to define (addictionize) the individual totally rather than addiction just being a PARTIAL thought anomaly.
@Hammersley1967 Defining addiction as a "thought disorder" sets up a paradigm of intervention and treament that allows for insurance coverage, while it gives chem dep professionals a perfect excuse for the poor prognosis of this made up disease. It acts as a rationale for coercive measures in drug courts. It can then be treated as a chronic relapsing disease and it gives credence to all this talk about "denial" - a clever way to make rehab clients doubt their own thoughts (stinking thinking).
"Defining addiction as a "thought disorder" sets up a paradigm of intervention and treament that allows for insurance coverage, while it gives chem dep professionals a perfect excuse for the poor prognosis of this made up disease."
But only if it is DIAGNOSED as disease...
Defining or approaching it as a "thought disorder" should in no way imply a physiopathology which is the necessary criterion for biomedical treatment and any insurance coverage thereof...
Moreover, as a "thought disorder" (as opposed to "disease") it firmly roots the problem within the realms of cognition and behaviour - which are eminently plastic and malleable dimensions...
A "thought disorder" is merely that - a disorder of though process...
Something that has been successfully "treated" (changed) with cognitive and behavioural techniques (CBT, aversion therapy, social learning theory, etc, etc) with permanent results...
@Hammersley1967 My point about the disease model is precisely what you're talking about. It starts with talk of neural wiring and brain chemistry, and then it takes an illogical leap into the realm of psychology as it tries to connect the psychodynamics with the physical changes in the brain. It treats the emotional and compulsive aspects of addiction as if they were hardwired into the brain. That's why ASAM tries to compare addiction with schizophrenia or parkinson's. We really agree here.
"It starts with talk of neural wiring and brain chemistry, and then it takes an illogical leap into the realm of psychology"
I agree, except that I think that it works in reverse to this.
It starts with the behaviour, then moves to the psycho-emotional (sound reasoning), and THEN makes the illogical (and unfounded) leap to the neuro-pathological.
I agree that it is the medicalising (pathologising) of the emotional/behavioural dimension of the human condition that is problematic.
@Hammersley1967 OK, so we basically agree that there is an attempt to make unwarranted connections between addictive behavior, emotional problems associated with addiction & brain functioning (so called "biopsychosocial disease" of addiction). I think that's why the usual attempt by addicts to rationalize their use, because they don't like to give up their major source of pleasure and comfort, has been relabeled as "denial" to make it look as though they can't even recognize what's going on.
"I think that's why the usual attempt by addicts to rationalize their use, because they don't like to give up their major source of pleasure and comfort, has been relabeled as "denial" to make it look as though they can't even recognize what's going on."
EXACTLY!!!
This is the central pitfall of the 12 step and biomedical models...
It sets the problem in concrete and creates rationalisations for continued use...
What you have not know yet that there is no such thing as a scientist ever cureing a alcoholic...Only one alcoholic helping another is without parrarel.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee God of a highpower of my understanding.
Nice going for those who can afford it. My question is always the same which is the poor drunk looking for help.
Where can he go? AA is in every community and it's free. And it works for those who commit to abstinence. We who suffer need to know what to do today and will cost nothing.
Our lives were so fucked up that we'd busted ourselves out financially. Let's make this real.
For those would like another solution option or if the 12 step program it's working for your I would highly recommend the Brain Treatment Center. Their technology and results speak for themselves.
Hank Hayes Author of "You’ve Been Lied To…The Untold Truth about Mainstream Alcohol and Addiction Treatment Programs and the Secrets on How to Eliminate the Problem for Good."
HT1Hayes 1 month ago
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HT1Hayes 1 month ago
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Disease mongering is the practice of widening the diagnostic boundaries of illnesses, and promoting public awareness of such, in order to expand the markets for those who sell and deliver treatments, which may include pharmaceutical companies, physicians, and other professional or consumer organizations.
dual diagnosis disease...
zxcs111 3 months ago
The only thing that I did to treat myself of pornography addiction, which I was addicted for over 7 years, was to withdraw from it completely. I have now been 'sober' for 15 weeks now, and I hope to continue that. Good luck to you all that are withdrawing from pornography.
HolyVegeta 6 months ago
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Aloha! My dad (Dick B.) has written more than 40 titles on why early A.A. succeeded (DickB dot com) and now has a channel on YouTube: "dickbchannel". What are your thoughts on his work? Thank you. Ken B.
Episcopos1 7 months ago
Hammersley 1967, I've noticed that you post regularily on these videos about addiction to criticize 12 step programs and the medical model of addiction. This trend of medicalizing every social problem under the sun really irritates me and the disease model is about the worst example of this. I'm glad I'm not the only one speaking against this trend.
prschuster 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@prschuster
"I'm glad I'm not the only one speaking against this trend."
Unfortunately, within the lay community, we are amongst the very few...
Within academic circles,as you can see in this video, we would be amongst more numerous company - but still in the minority...
Nonetheless, I have faith in human rationality and expect that the "understanding" of addictive behaviour at this point in time will be looked back upon by our future successors as a quaint little period of folk science...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
Apparently, there are a lot of people who do well with 12 step programs. I don't think anyone wants to deny free access to AA or NA meetings. My only objection is that the vast majority of addiction counselors and rehabs offer only a 12 step approach with little or no mention of alternative methods. That's just cheating your client and it's unprofessional to withold useful information.
prschuster 1 year ago
@prschuster
"there are a lot of people who do well with 12 step programs"
There are...
But unfortunately, the research shows that for every person for whom the 12 step model is effective for, there are 19 for whom it is unsuitable and ineffective for...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 I agree that 12 step programs don't work very well for most people. If more 12 step people would recognize that, I would be happy for them and be on my way. But the dominant attitude right now is that alternative methods are somehow considered to be the exception to the rule, so they are marginalized.
prschuster 1 year ago
@prschuster
"I agree that 12 step programs don't work very well for most people."
And yet it occupies 97% of the treatment industry in the United States...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 I know that 97% of treatment centers push a program that works for less than half the population. It's ironic . Why can't they face the fact that there's a lot of different schools of thought going on today... Oh I know... It's because AA got there first and so it dominates the recovery landscape.
prschuster 1 year ago
12Step program are predominatly religious in nature,most of these programs should be suite for 1St. Amendmne Violaltion and have them pay back all the money wasted in treatment.12 Step programs do not get close to any thing any one else would call treatment,and preferr to blame their patients for their incompetent work.
Picaro1 1 year ago
The medical "researchers" don't actually articulate what is specifically "wrong" with the addict and/or alcoholic "brain". In fact they seems to suggest that every substance dependent has a unique "dysfunction" (some parts of the brain "under-perform" whereas other parts "over-perform").
Every brain works uniquely. No two brains are exactly the same...
Sounds like faith-based healing using the medical MODEL and the RELIGION of "scientism" to me...
MORE "DISEASE THEORY" GARBAGE...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 Those researchers didn't explain their methods in enough detail to really assess their usefulness. Maybe addictive cravings can be measured this way. It still doesn't take the place of personal choice and the responsibility of the addict to make that difficult decision to quit, though. As long as these researchers don't spout the line that you are powerless to make that choice for yourself, I think they could be onto something.
prschuster 1 year ago
@prschuster
I agree, but that's the problem with biomedical "disease" models of addiction...
They don't conform to the medical criteria for disease classification...
That is biomedical "disease" models don't comply with their OWN paradigm's disease classification criteria...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 The disease model crosses the line when they consider behavior to be a disease. If they'd just state that there are brain changes associated with addiction and stop there, it would be OK.
prschuster 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 The disease model crosses the line when they consider behavior to be a disease. If they'd just state that there are brain changes associated with addiction and stop there, it would be OK. I don 't doubt that brain changes can influence your behavior, but no one can tell me that an addict is incapable of making the choice to quit, regardless of how hard it is to do so. That doesn't mean you have to do it alone.
prschuster 1 year ago
@prschuster
"The disease model crosses the line when they consider behavior to be a disease. If they'd just state that there are brain changes associated with addiction and stop there"
Unfortunately, the brain changes when fear or anger is acutely and chronically experienced and expressed as well...
Should we call fear and anger disease?
Where does it end?
It seems that we have lost control of the concept (which is all the disease model is)...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 Of course, the disease model isn't just about chemicals and neural connections. Everything we do, think or feel is mediated by neural connections. The disease model is really about defining addiction as a thought disorder. It's the belief that the addiction has so thoroughly taken over your mind that you are incapable of making rational decisions so you must be forever "in recovery". What scares me is that most people don't realize the Orwellian implications of this.
prschuster 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 Of course, the disease model isn't just about chemicals and neural connections. Everything we do, think or feel is mediated by neural connections. The disease model is really about defining addiction as a thought disorder. It's the belief that the addiction has so thoroughly taken over your mind that you are incapable of making rational decisions so you must be forever "in recovery". What scares me is that most people don't realize the Orwellian implications of this.
prschuster 1 year ago
@prschuster
"The disease model is really about defining addiction as a thought disorder."
I LIKE THAT!!!
That's a REALLY GOOD way of putting it!
THOUGHT DISORDER
But why should we go all the way to the disease conception?
And you are right.
When we go all the way to disease conception it tends to define (addictionize) the individual totally rather than addiction just being a PARTIAL thought anomaly.
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 Defining addiction as a "thought disorder" sets up a paradigm of intervention and treament that allows for insurance coverage, while it gives chem dep professionals a perfect excuse for the poor prognosis of this made up disease. It acts as a rationale for coercive measures in drug courts. It can then be treated as a chronic relapsing disease and it gives credence to all this talk about "denial" - a clever way to make rehab clients doubt their own thoughts (stinking thinking).
prschuster 1 year ago
@prschuster
[1]
"Defining addiction as a "thought disorder" sets up a paradigm of intervention and treament that allows for insurance coverage, while it gives chem dep professionals a perfect excuse for the poor prognosis of this made up disease."
But only if it is DIAGNOSED as disease...
Defining or approaching it as a "thought disorder" should in no way imply a physiopathology which is the necessary criterion for biomedical treatment and any insurance coverage thereof...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@prschuster
[2]
Moreover, as a "thought disorder" (as opposed to "disease") it firmly roots the problem within the realms of cognition and behaviour - which are eminently plastic and malleable dimensions...
A "thought disorder" is merely that - a disorder of though process...
Something that has been successfully "treated" (changed) with cognitive and behavioural techniques (CBT, aversion therapy, social learning theory, etc, etc) with permanent results...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@prschuster
[3]
It is not the PSYCHO-logising of the problem that leads to chronic, pathological conceptions of the problem.
It is the PHYSIO-pathologising of the problem that leads to these erroneous and self defeating conceptions of, and approaches to, the problem.
See, I disagree that the "disease" model advocates "thought disorder" - it is about the pathophysical.
Pathophysiology is a materialist, "hardwired" phenomenon...
Psychopathology is a plastic, fluid and changing dimension...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 My point about the disease model is precisely what you're talking about. It starts with talk of neural wiring and brain chemistry, and then it takes an illogical leap into the realm of psychology as it tries to connect the psychodynamics with the physical changes in the brain. It treats the emotional and compulsive aspects of addiction as if they were hardwired into the brain. That's why ASAM tries to compare addiction with schizophrenia or parkinson's. We really agree here.
prschuster 1 year ago
@prschuster
"It starts with talk of neural wiring and brain chemistry, and then it takes an illogical leap into the realm of psychology"
I agree, except that I think that it works in reverse to this.
It starts with the behaviour, then moves to the psycho-emotional (sound reasoning), and THEN makes the illogical (and unfounded) leap to the neuro-pathological.
I agree that it is the medicalising (pathologising) of the emotional/behavioural dimension of the human condition that is problematic.
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
@Hammersley1967 OK, so we basically agree that there is an attempt to make unwarranted connections between addictive behavior, emotional problems associated with addiction & brain functioning (so called "biopsychosocial disease" of addiction). I think that's why the usual attempt by addicts to rationalize their use, because they don't like to give up their major source of pleasure and comfort, has been relabeled as "denial" to make it look as though they can't even recognize what's going on.
prschuster 1 year ago
@prschuster
"I think that's why the usual attempt by addicts to rationalize their use, because they don't like to give up their major source of pleasure and comfort, has been relabeled as "denial" to make it look as though they can't even recognize what's going on."
EXACTLY!!!
This is the central pitfall of the 12 step and biomedical models...
It sets the problem in concrete and creates rationalisations for continued use...
Hammersley1967 1 year ago
AA will try at every attempt to discredit a scientific rational method towards addiction .
Science has actually been held back by AA ..Your higher power is blocking your access to your frontal lobe...
doodweney 2 years ago 5
What you have not know yet that there is no such thing as a scientist ever cureing a alcoholic...Only one alcoholic helping another is without parrarel.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee God of a highpower of my understanding.
Picaro1 2 years ago
Nice going for those who can afford it. My question is always the same which is the poor drunk looking for help.
Where can he go? AA is in every community and it's free. And it works for those who commit to abstinence. We who suffer need to know what to do today and will cost nothing.
Our lives were so fucked up that we'd busted ourselves out financially. Let's make this real.
LifeSoberBobby 2 years ago
Go ahead make sure you do not relapes.
Picaro1 2 years ago
Very interesting.
91177info 2 years ago
have you heard of ibogaine from africa or ayathasca herb from peru.. i have heard good stuff
finefilth 2 years ago
So they treat addiction with the help of brainwaves they've measured? Cool..
Apessius 2 years ago