CAN-AM Porsche 917

[Mitsimad]

Faster than today's grand prix cars with their technical superiority.. I find that hard to believe. Given these car may of made more horse power, today's racers make up for that with efficiency.

[wesmeis]

Damnn energy crisis..

[captinspeedy1]

the veyron has a power to weight ratio of 760hp per tone

the porsche 917/30 has a power to weight ratio of 1940hp per tone i've heard stories thats its more i've heard 2000hp or 2200hp

most for an f1 car was the f1 2005 cars they were devolpin up to 980hp that gave it 1580hp per tone this car from what i heard about the 917/30 it was record to have a top speed of 260mph 420kmh on paul richard in testing in 1973 or 4 i'm not shore on the long back straight if theres any video of it ???

[917TurboPanzer]

@captinspeedy1 Your figures are a bit off. The exact horsepower of the racing engines was variable and not very well recorded, but was certainly never more than 1200PS. A likely figure appears to be 1100PS. The 1500PS claims relate to testbed readings when a wastegate stuck open.

As for top speed, the 917/30 managed 231mph during testing at Paul Ricard, using considerably different settings from those run in races, 238mph being its fastest speed at Talledega.

[mechanicvirus]

What movie is this from?

[thenicedudejay]

@mechanicvirus it is from a documentary called : Porsche , The Racing Legend.

[elijah5674]

221 MPH closed circuit...not bad for its day, but the GT40s were doing that back in 1966 at LeMans, with normally aspirated engines. The Callaway Corvette Sledgehammer did 254.76 in 1988, and it was fully street legal, had only a 5.7L TT engine, full power/AC and got 26MPG highway.

I'd have loved to see GT40s with that kind of power and updated...but it was not to be. I guess the Ford GT TTs are as close as we'll get to that.

Who says American iron isn't fast or technologically advanced?

[Electronlyman]

The most powerful racing car in history, think it's faster than current F1 cars!

[doowaditti]

@Electronlyman

I saw a race at Laguna Seca in 72 or 73.....between two uop shadow can-ams and two uop shadow f1 cars.It was a lunchtime exhibition race.Yes,the f1 cars won.... but it took them 2 laps to catch them.Ahh....the good ole days

[Ireg2post1]

The glory days. Now every ting is pussified.

[adrenalineonline]

Sadly these cars killed the series.

[McLarenMercedes]

It's funny how all those Ferrari fans who praise the "brilliance" of Ferrari don't seem to know about Can-Am. The racing series where McLaren and Porsche dominated.

Ferrari never won nothing in Can-Am. Neither did they win Indy500, the greatest race in the world.

[RickyJ46]

In this video Mark Donohue is shown celebrating his Talladega record on August 9, 1975. He will die in an Austrian hospital ten short days later.

[Dario911]

The maximum hp output for Porsche 917/30 was 1580 hp. I've read this on a book about Porsche 917. It has been reckognized the most powerful racing car in history. About BMW 1.5 V6 litre turbo engine, Roche declared it was capable to develope 1.300 hp. I've read this on the italian magazine Autosprint, and it has been confirmed by Riccardo Patrese during an interview about that car.

[McLarenMercedes]

actually according to Nelson Piquet the BMW dyno only went to 1400hp and the 1983 turbo BMW engine exceeded that so they didn't know if it produced 1420, 1450 or 1500hp in qualifying trim.

All that from a roadcar based engine, designed back in 1961. Not bad.

Porsche had planned on some truly insane amounts of horspower for the 1974 Can-Am season but they banned turbos and hence Posche pulled out.

[McLarenMercedes]

that BMW was a straight 4 cylinder based on their M10 engine for roadcars

[TheGarageBlog]

The funniest part is right at the beginning - the announcer says "back in America" as the car passes under the start /finish stand at Mosport.

In Canada!

[canericankev]

ha ha I noticed that to right at the 1st second..great old days out there :-)

[imprezatt]

Probably should have said "North America"... Can-Am.. Canadian/American...

[johannes914]

Mosport is in Canada. And Canada in in America. United States in one of the countries in America. The "Back in America" is correct.

[btmiller88]

@TheGarageBlog America is the continent, North and South including Canada.

[Barkuti]

917/30: 849 Kg -1872 lbs- for 1100 BHP race trim

Veyron: 1888 Kg -4162 lbs- for 987 BHP

A Veyron does 150 mph in 11.67 s

The 917/30, with it's 4 speed gearbox, did 200 mph in 10.9 s - mindblowing...

Have you seen the video of the Veyron against the Eurofighter? I bet the 917/30 would destroy the fighter in that same test.

Cheers

[McLarenMercedes]

well the Veyron is almost 2tons heavy. I think somewhere around 1900kilos. The Porsche 917-30 was just some 700kilos heavy, meaning it was less than half as heavy.

Pretty impressive power to weight ratio, I'd say.

[weallfollowmanutd]

cbkspa - It was a 1498cc 4 cylinder engine. A special fuel that was used in WW2 developed for Luftwaffe fighters. The engine stopped detonating with this special fuel. It was a mix of Tourine. Paul Rousche admitted to them getting about 1470hp on a dyno in qualifying trim once. The dyno couldnt measure over 1500hp!

5.6bar boost was his other figure. This is the absolute truth. Not once did the engine block fail in any detonations!

[Kurzb3]

These were the craziest cars ever built for race track - but the craziest is always the most exciting

[xb250power]

porsche needed a turbo to beat a chevy. both are cool cars

[cbkspa]

@xb250power ...well...it was only a 5.4 liter turbo, against an 8 liter chevy.... :)

[McLarenMercedes]

Chevy tried to turbo boost their engines too but they could never design a good chassis that could harness that power, think Shadow had one of those

McLaren were the ones that really knew how to design a good Can-Am car to use all the power efficiently. Until Porsche came along...

remember turbos were in their infancy in motorracing back then, and were very tricky to control for the drivers, going the turbo route was risky

[btmiller88]

@McLarenMercedes Chevy did not have chassis, and Porsche was the first to turbo there engines so that and all the money they poured on Can Am made them the big dogs.

[McLarenMercedes]

@btmiller88

My mistake, when I wrote "they" I didn't mean Chevy but the teams in Can-Am that were using their engines. McLaren clearly knew how to build a competitive car and won 37 out of 43 races in Can-Am 1967-1971. I think Roger Penske persuaded Porsche to do Can-Am since the dominant Porsche 917 was illegal under the new rules in sportscar racing from 1972, hence turbocharging it gave it extended life in Can-Am. First the 917-10 in '72 and the 917-30 in '73.

[btmiller88]

@McLarenMercedes And yes the Shadow UOP turbo car is out there, I talked to the owner in 2001 it makes 1800hp, I watched it lap the field from the pits at Road America in 2001 until it broke, guessing it got hot.

[McLarenMercedes]

@btmiller88

Yes, I've heard reports about 1200hp from those Shadow cars in racetrim (1800hp was probably qualifying trim).

The problem remains. Building a good enough car that can harness all that power and use it on circuits is quite the engineering challenge. Shadow never really were on the level of McLaren or Porsche for that matter.

In 1974 turbos were banned in Can-Am and Porsche and McLaren pulled out. Shadow won with little opposition and Can-Am was dead.Some blame the 1973 oil crisis

[btmiller88]

@McLarenMercedes I agree with everything you posted. The Turbo Shadow I saw was all modern equipment not the '72 hardware but it was the turbo car from back then. I'm well aware of the history, kind of obsessed with Can Am.

Thanks for the input.

[McLarenMercedes]

@btmiller88

There has been a few era of insanely powerful racing. Can-Am was one of them. Group B rallycars in the mid 80's was another (700hp on narrow gravel roads required some insane driver skills). Grand Prix racing 1936-1939 was pretty mad too. 600hp and 200mph in races with cars having narrow wheels and drum brakes.

Wish I had been around to witness Can-Am. Wasn't even born.

[btmiller88]

@McLarenMercedes Yeah group B was cool but to many people died.

[917TurboPanzer]

@McLarenMercedes 1800hp seems unlikely. According to Tony Southgates autobiography, the car's designer, the engine never even produced 1200hp, supposedly it was just a suggested figure by Chevrolet when the idea of a turbocharged engine was shown to them. This was demonstrated when the 917/30 was faster than the Shadow on its sole racing apperance in 1974 at Mid-Ohio.

[McLarenMercedes]

@917TurboPanzer

I never believed that either to be perfectly honest. I just replied to the comment of some guy who claimed that there's a Shadow-Chevrolet turbo which produces 1800hp today. Now, I usually would be blunt and say "1800hp is just nonsense" but I chose "maybe in qualifying trim".

I also know no designer ever liked the turbo-Chevrolet and neither did the drivers. Had they raced turbos in 1974 the Shadows still would have been no match for the updated 917-30.

[kudryavchik]

weallfollowmanutd, go to gurneyflap. There you will find the true info.

[andersport]

The Porschw can-am cars were very impressive. Althpugh I was a McLaren-Chevy fan, I have a lot of respect for Porsche and their development of those Can-Am cars.

[weallfollowmanutd]

BMW confirmed 1400HP, and said that the engine ran steel springs up to 10500RPM, had a bore of 89mm and a stroke of 60mm, made 4 bars of boost and 5.5 bar on qualifying.

[lordieuan777]

5.5 Bar? Jesus Christ...

[weallfollowmanutd]

kudryavchik - LOL i'm not making those figures up my friend. Look on the internet. BMW made a qualifying engine in Kyalami 1983, made to last a few laps. It had 1400hp.

[cbkspa]

@weallfollowmanutd  ...what was the size of that BMW engine ? thanks... :)

[kudryavchik]

weallfollowmanutd, BMW had never reached this level of performance in 1983 even had never had 1400hp. In 1983 the boost level was around 3 bar in qualification. The power of BMW engine in 1983 was about 700-800hp. 1986 was apogee season of turbo era. This year BMW had around 1300 hp in qualification. But this performance didn't help them win, more say they have lost. Mclaren-Porsche and Williams-Honda were much faster in race. Take note that Porsche haven't used qual engine and tyres...

[weallfollowmanutd]

kudryavchik - BMW made a qualifying engine and turbo designed to last 3-4 laps in 1983, at Kyalami. This produced 1400hp. You can look it up. Now i'm not stating thats more incredible than these things though, considering this was 10years earlier!

[rawoodruff]

What is amazing is that it was a 1.5 liter four cylinder engine! That engine was incredible.

[MPZRACEVIDEO]

You guys really love the big banger´s - we in Germany too.

But we only have the ORWELL SUPERSPORTS CUP with some McLaren M8f, March, Chevron, Lola, no Porsche 917...

[MPZRACEVIDEO]

Check my Vids for ORWELL Races at Hockenheim and Spa Francorchamps

[mcrdaveabc]

Let us not forget the incredible combination of Roger Penske and Mark Donohue..a lethal mix that beat down the opposition gave the US a boost during those fantastic years of monster Porsches.

[Airbus9e]

I saw Mark D win with this car in 1973 at Watkins Glen.....I was 9....I still have Mark and Roger's autographs on the entry list....This was back in the day when racing was......well.....racing....it­'s more like a sideshow now...

[EUROTRASHSPAMMER]

Yeah...I was at the '73 six hour race in July too! That's before the Glen had a chicane and just walking through the garages was worth the price of admission.

I think that's the year when a bunch of jerks took the Emerson Fittipaldi Fan bus down to the "Bog" and set it on fire during the USGP in October.

[WomackPhotoKCMO]

These drivers...especially Mark D., had the balls of T-Rex's. That freekin' 917-30 was a road course Funny Car. As far as looks...which don't matter in a race, the UOP Shadows ruled.

[KeeperOfTheKitten]

The Can Am was simply the most outrageous series in motorsport, and for the doubters I should make it clear - the cars were faster than contemporary Grand Prix cars on the same circuits. No other series allowed as much technical freedom such as multiple engines, unlimited displacement, adjustable aerodynamics, air brake flaps, all wheel drive, vacuum underbody, etc.

[McLarenMercedes]

@KeeperOfTheKitten

wish I had a timemachine.

[cbkspa]

@KeeperOfTheKitten ....Though, Can Am did outlaw the 1970 Chaparral 2J that had the vacume underdodies

[kudryavchik]

P.S. f1 was able to go 1400hp for the minutes. Racetrim 900 hp. 917-30 was able to race with 1100-1200 hp in 200 miles races. Fell the difference!

[kudryavchik]

Porsche had much less turbolag because of much more displacement and much less boosted turbines. 2,27 bar max. And you also should note that 917/30 had a simple fuel comparable to f1 80s "poison". 917/30 was capable reaching 100 kmh in 1,9 sec, 160 kmh in 3,9 sec, 200 kmh in 5,4 sec. The second gear selected on 240 kmh.

[kudryavchik]

Guys, for the note. BMW has never had 1400 hp endine in 1983. The most powerful engine was a honda engine in 1986 with 1300-1400 hp. In 1986 BMW had 1300 hp endine in benetton and 1100 hp max in bt55. But the great disadvantage of these cars are great drag coefficient and even greater turbolag. Its too hard for 1,5 l egine to start the high boosted turbune -> turbolag. Boost 5,5.

[mark4tk]

the big block chevrolet was no match for BOOST

[alwcurlz]

That's because BBC doesn't need any boost.

[borde049]

Apparently it did...

[Zuckussswe]

Hi folks!

The most astonishing race car ever.

Is there any one who know the name of the movie the clip is taken from?

I have been searching for it for years, ever since my VHS-copy got ruined...

No guesses please.

Alex from Sweden.

[rpk944]

the 917-30 made 1100 horse but with the 'overboost' button it cranked 1580hp.

[wargod2009]

When speed and glory were placed ahead of safety. That is the proper mentality.

[25tab]

god i love that engine note...

[TRANSAM19777]

1200hp, you need a big set of balls to drive cars like that

[nofukenway]

WOW! Real racecars......

[AlexDeLarge90]

yeah, insane times and I wasn't even alive to witness it...

[Adonis969]

These were not cars but monsters! No traction control or anything and 1200Nm! This makes modern racing cars look like pony cars!

[DoctorNumber46]

f1 cars are still much faster...these had more power but f1 cars can destroy them on a track.

[turbillb]

The f1 would wipe the floor but is no where near as cool.

[mickd01]

Those aluminum block Chevy V8's were around 740HP in the McLaren M8 and the 12 cylinder turbo motor of the Porsche 917/30 in race trim was easily 1100HP. In qualifying with 39 psi boost they were making 1500HP. Went 0-60 in 1.9 seconds, 0-200 in 10.9, top speed over 250mph with the 39 psi boost. The McLaren was 480 cu. in., 7,867 cc. The Porsche 917/30 was 5,400 cc, 330 cu. in. The Porsche was champ in '73 Can Am, trounced McLaren. Porsche won all 8 races, Donahue won 6 in the 917/30.

[golfer0000001]

The McLaren here was the M20. It still had 740bhp but it was 8112cc Chevy V8. The 917/30did have up to 1580bhp at full boost which makes it the most powerful racer ever. I can't wait to get the DVD. The veyron is weak compared to the 917/30. 580 less bhp with 4 more cylinders, 2 more turbos and an engine 2.6 litres bigger. I guess the boost from the veyron can't be anywhere near 39psi (2.7 bar)

[AlexDeLarge90]

yes,but the 917/30 was never intended as a road-legal car

for your info the Brabham-BMW BT52 of 1983 made over 1400hp from a turbocharged 1,5litre straight 4,based on a BMW 1960's roadcar engine

the Brabham-BMW BT52 had 5,6bars in qualifying

[icebird1961]

Hi Alex - well we note:

"for your info the Brabham-BMW BT52 of 1983 made over 1400hp from a turbocharged 1,5litre" -

well that is a really boring thing to drive - no torque at all - extremly peaky Performance -Way off the REAL thing - the PORSCHES! that's why almost nobody noted ever the BMWs effort - whereevery EVERYBODY knows the gruelsome PORSCHE 917 - the all-time pineacle in motorsport-history/ most likely forever!

That's why i've got two PORSCHEs in my garage!

[AlexDeLarge90]

Who needs torque in Formula 1? Brabham won the 1983 title with BMW. Nelson Piquet was world champion. Unlike CanAm where there was no upper limit for displacement F1 had a rule of 1,5litre max for a turboengine.

The fact is the M10 BMW engine was designed in 1961 for roadcars and has been voted by a panel of experts as one of the 10 best engines of all time.

And the Porsche 956/962 stayed competitive from 1982-1994, a lot longer than the 917.

You can't drive a 917 on the road either..

[btmiller88]

@AlexDeLarge90 There are 917 cars on the road...videos on here. In Europe, don't know how but it's there.

[AlexDeLarge90]

At least BMW is doing well in F1 now whereas Porsche isn't in it at all. Last time they were involved was in 1992 when they designed an useless V12 for team Footwork. It was so heavy and underpowered the team switched to Judd V8's mid-season.

And if you want torque buy yourself a turbo-diesel or a huge american big block V8,like a Chevy 500cubic inch V8 crate engine,THOSE have torque

A little R&D would have turned the Ferrari 512M into a 917 beater

[Luger911]

yeah but before

porsche ruled in formula 1!

[spencermcgrew]

Read the Unfair Advantage. those engineers were arrogant idiots. Mark Donahue showed them how to build a motor

[turbolover175]

I do agree that the 917 is the most powerful road race car ever made, and I would like to point out to said moron that top fuel engines are making around 9,000, not 6,000 horses. gotta stick up for american brute force.

[jamesandrew2000]

Those 9,000hp motors are good for a quarter mile between total tear down. Apples and oranges.

[cart123948]

Imagine trying to apply 9,000 HP leaving a turn.

[aussiedrifter93]

These don't have 9000HP if thats what you mean. Or are you talking about Top fuelers.

[btmiller88]

@jamesandrew2000 Your a clown...these are sprint motors. I build them.

[jamesandrew2000]

@btmiller88 Fuck off goofball. My comment was made over a year ago in response to some other know it all hick comparing this Porsche engine to a NHRA top fuel engine making "9000 hp a 1/4 at a time". Great, good for you, fantastic that you pretend to build them. Again, when grown-ups say they are "comparing apples and oranges"...that means that you are comparing two very different things and as such making a moot point. It's 'you're' a clown, not 'your' a clown you dumbass.

[btmiller88]

@jamesandrew2000 It's ( An NHRA top fuel... ) not a NHRA top fuel, just saying...hick.

[btmiller88]

@jamesandrew2000 I'm sorry James, I miss took 9,000hp for a typo of 900hp and you are correct.

James is not a clown...I eat my words.

[Magicbean911]

Just goes to show that PORSCHE is THE BEST!!!

What an absulutley insane and bloody awsome car.

Thanks for the movie...great time watching :-)

[289shelby]

What a car! Although the original Can-Am Challenge was winding down(?), the 917 created a monopoly...what a car, so good it's outlawed...like the Chaparal and the Brabham F1 car with the rear-mounted "sucker fan" which were also banned. 917s and Cobras rule such a great block of motor history!

289shelby

[MY599FERRARI]

Very cool special race car , it's looks even more special in person...again a very cool race car!

[the5thdominion]

Forgot to mention - the name of the documentary is "CanAm Thunder" due out in Jan. 2008.

:)

Can't wait!

[crannogdiver]

yep-real motors... like gruppe c on steroids... viva 917!!

[the5thdominion]

I can't wait for the new documentary coming out on CanAm - It will include more onboard photage than found anywhere else. I saw a preview at Road America at one of the vendor booths and it looks sweet.

[sobchuk]

Thank-you so much for sharing this video. I've been looking for years to find any videos of the 917's in Can-Am and it's proven quite hard. The incredible sound, insane speed and power, and the fact it was Porsche writing the rules again, is a time in history to never be repeated.

[McLarenMercedes]

I once described to a guy that the Porsche 917-30 was the most powerful racecar ever and had 1580hp in qualifying trim. The moron then replied,"well dragsters have around 6000hp". Dragsters are NOT racecars but huge engines with wheels designed to last 6 seconds straight ahead.

[pavementsucks1]

4 seconds nowadays

[GUTZY1989]

PORSCHE the best ever , go out with a bang , destroyed the american record

[Mr911Carrera]

What a great car you could induce wheel spin in forth gear wide open this was one bad ass Pogsche I saw it raced at Laguna just unbelievable acceleration.RIP Mark

[Porsche911GT1]

what a machine!

[Soontirfel86]

Donohue was great with that car. My dad told me stories from working at Road America where he went in the run off lane at Canada corner the workers went to go retrieve him, but he just put in reverse and floored it back onto the track.

[VintageBrand]

Nice video. you can see these cars in an actual race by clicking on my name.

[FM77]

Superb video as always...bravo....

[thegoodlead]

Thank you so much for posting this video. Has anyone else got any footage of the Can Am 917/10s or 917/30? Fantastic cars!