As he is talking about how the stereotypical liberal arts graduate thinks, they all applaud like the liberal arts graduates they are. Proves his point beautifully
@medzshakes@shaftiloniusmonk Damn... My comment was refering to the text version on wall street journal where he states: "The capital-T Truth is about life before death. It is about making it to 30, or maybe 50, without wanting to shoot yourself in the head." Although they claim it to be a transcript of the above speech this phrase doesn't appear in the youtube version. So my comment doesn't make sense at all...
@yazzy613 I think that is mostly because they weren't really understanding what he is saying. It happens often when I attend lectures of very intelligent people. It is dense stuff and not everyone can fully grasp it, especially at that age.
it's desillusionig that he wants to present a way of not shooting oneself after ten years and then ends up killing himself. Thinking seems to be overestimated...
@Eiparo david foster wallace battled depression throughout his entire life. he didn't kill himself because his advice was bullshit, he killed himself because he was beyond the reach, even of the things which he knew to be true, like the things he says in this speech.
@Eiparo His advice obviously flew right over you if you use his suicide as a basis for how 'correct' what he's saying is. I've started to experience what he's referring to when he talks about adult life being unsexy and tedious and soul-crushing. I'm in my third year of university; in the first year I spent it chasing a hedonisitc ideal; in the second I spent it living a very boring but more 'mature' life. The fact that I was forced to grow up used to piss me off, this gave me a new perspective.
Love this speech, but got so distracted with the misuse of the word athiesm. I understand what he is trying to say, but athiesm isn't about rejecting worship, surely?
@UnluckyGuitar Here's how I thought of it: Atheism, in a sense, is the belief that there are no gods. What I believe Wallace was saying is that everyone worships something; everyone holds something higher in importance or belief than everything else. Whether it's money, power, intelligence, or gods, that thing becomes the person's god. In that sense, no one is an atheist because everyone has a god that they hold higher than all things in their lives, and worship that thing, intentionally or not.
I recently read this speech in My English class and was in completely shock and awe. It was profound and extraordinary. From start to finish. I've never fallen in love with a piece of writing this fast.
@Allanrpsx - he was coming down off of a medication for clinical depression that was no longer effective for his condition. There was a lot that was stacked against him, medically, that makes it understandable, but certainly no less tragic :/
@Allanrpsx Speaking as someone who has battled with clinical depression all my life, I will tell you this: what keeps us going, every day, day in and day out is this: hope.
One of the first thing that a major episode of clinical depression takes from you is the ability to envision anything ever getting any better than it is right now, and how it is RIGHT NOW is so intolerable you would often rather die than go on.
There's only so long you can feel like that and keep going.
Both carried a crippling burden on their backs to the top of a mountain.
Both inevitably ended up being crucified by that burden.
And finally, both died to give hope to the rest of us who find existence so unbearably confusing, that there is not a day that goes by where we don't say--what the hell is water?
Why the fuck would I listen to some moran who ended up killing himself? I'd rather read the autobiography off someone interesting and smart who didnt end up suiciding... lol... fucking idiot
Yea, the man is simply alive when he comes to the terms of reality. But, I have to admit, the xylophone at the end really just lost my train of thought. Overall, Kenyon College had a great man with great wisdom.
@Requinix17 that's the whole point. truth is in the skeleton of a thousand stories. its not about what you know, about knowledge, its about how you choose to see it. its unsexy, petty, and beautiful. let me know if you hear a commencement speech that you personally would call brilliant, not flashy or funny, but brilliant. i think this one is personally.
Wallace is Beckett via metempsychosis, born a few decades after 1906 so too late to keep American pop culture out of his work while remaining artistically honest. Who else could make the ambivalence inherent in "the freedom of all to be lords of our own tiny skull-sized kingdoms, alone at the center of all creation" so clear? The vision of mindfulness Wallace offers is historically situated, a response to the water in which we 21st-century reasonably well off folks find ourselves swimming.
Worship: Besides religious references, there is another def:
: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem
I agree some people show much esteem to movie stars, etc. but I would not call that worship. The clue here is extravagant or ardent, which might be accorded to other people, but I don't agree we worship objects, except Catholic idols. Everything I have ever owned, while I enjoyed, I never worship. Most are junked now. Any other def is Christian slang.
@angiechick101 lol. That's very clever, but no. I don't think that would even be possible. To worship my own ability to not worship things would make that ability non-existant. Therefore, I would be worshiping something that does not exist. Being an atheist, I'm not in the habit of worshiping things that don't exist. I like the way you think, though
@kalair Yes, I do have a set of ethical principles I follow. However, having a set of rules that you follow is not the same as worshiping something, and that is not what DFW was saying. He said that everyone worships, and the compelling reason for maybe choosing to worship God or some spiritual type thing; whether it be JC, Allah, Yahweh, the Wiccan mother goddess, the four noble truths or some set of ethical princaples, is that anything else you worship will eat you alive.
@kalair I guess you missed the point of me quoting him, so I will spell it out for you. He listed 'some set of ethical principles' in his list of 'god or some spiritual type thing'. Therefore, he is referring to a set of principles derived from spiritual belief.
The definition of worship is somewhat open to interpretation, but the definition of atheism is pretty straight forward. 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God; 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
@kalair Whether he misunderstood what atheism is or whether he used it in a way other than it is defined, either way the statement was incorrect, which is why I disagree with it. No, that is not what he was saying. What he said was; everyone worships something and if you worship anything other than something spiritual "it will eat you alive". Perhaps you should go back and listen from 8:00 to 8:30 and actually listen to what he is saying.
@TheTruthJunkie You could be worshiping that ability without realizing you are doing so. I'm not saying you are, just saying you could be. Self deception happens all the time. Yes, it would mean that your ability to not worship things wouldn't be a real ability, but people worship things that aren't real all the time (even if they claim not to. read: the self deception I mentioned earlier). Again, I'm basically arguing semantics, not claiming to know how or what you are doing.
@starius1154 That is true. Self deception is very common, and I have certainly fell victim to it myself. Seeing, and accepting. ones own flaws is one of the hardest things for a person to do.
@TheTruthJunkie Actually, there is one other thing I disagree with him on, and it ties in with the everyone worships statement. He said there is no such thing as atheism because everyone worships. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, supreme being or anything supernatural. It is entirely possible for someone to worship something, like money, and still be an atheist.
@TheTruthJunkie Atheists worship the human intellect and its power to rationally deduce the meaninglessness of metaphysical statements and that the world they experience is all that there is. They worship "life on earth" as sacred whereas the religious worship eternal life as sacred and earthly life as transient. As has been said, DFW uses worship without religious connotations (there's no "deity of fashion" or money in a serious sense) and argues from pragmatism rather than dogma.
@greatfulkitteh That may be true of many atheists but not me. I think the human intellect has flaws just like anything else, and I certainly don't think the world I experience is all that there is. I do find life precious, not sacred, but I do not worship it. I understand that he was not using worship with religious connotations and I never claimed he was. I simply disagreed with the statement that everyone worships.
@TheTruthJunkie Incidentally, I've always been curious about atheists' stance on the "beginning of it all" — if one does not believe in a god or creator, one must accept that effect (the raw material of the universe) can materialize without cause (a creator, something to put it all there), which is akin to believing that something can come from nothing. IMO this is a metaphysical claim. That's why I'm agnostic: I don't think god or a lack thereof can be adequately demonstrated rationally.
@greatfulkitteh I don't presume to speak for all atheists but as for my stance on the beginning of it all is, well....I don't know. I doubt we will ever really know. I don't think that not believing in a god or creator means you have to believe thing can materialize out of nothing. I certainly don't believe that. That is actually something theists would need to believe in. After all, if god created everything then where did god come from.
@TheTruthJunkie I assume theists would say "God is and has always been" or something...so yeah, God was always around (and if that means he came out of nothing then he did). But as far as the atheist's claim, it's just like...where did everything come from? If you assume an infinite chain of cause & effect is possible, the question's moot, but I feel like atheist vs. religion it just comes down to one additional cause at the beginning of the chain: is it God or just serendipitous cosmic dust?
@greatfulkitteh quantum mechanics tells us events do not need "causes" - hawking has revealed this much. in planck dimensions (big bang era) quantum rules apply and the big bang can "happen" without newtonian 'first-this-then-this' cause and effect
Reference frames. Each of us has his own reference frame. All reference frames are valid. The trick is identifying if your reference frame helps you predict the future.
People are really retarded for laughing... Really stupid.
The first time I encountered this speech, I read it. Sure, I laughed a little to myself at certain parts, but nowhere near as much as these students, and it left me pretty sad but touched.
Now I've listened to it, and I don't even crack as much of a smile about certain parts because I think about it more, yet they're cracking up with laughter. Shame.
@MaidenRocks99 it's a little different reading a speech for the first time somewhere out of context, knowing exactly who the author is, and probably knowing that he committed suicide, than actually being a graduate from Kenyon College in the class of 2005 AT your graduation, seeing a speaker who you may or may not know, and being unaware that the speaker will kill himself in the future.
@gsabram Hmm. I guess you do bring up a good point.
He's alive and breathing there, and they don't really have a clue, where as we know what happens. Hm. I dunno, still hard to get past the notion of it being as funny as they think it is, maybe because of that.
@fernanhid Because there are so many idiots in the audience. He takes it in good humour but it must have been quite disheartening how many people missed the point.
This speech was well-delivered, but the content was insignificant to me. I don't believe that everyone worships something. When he speaks of worshiping money, power, or looks, he has a point that we never feel good enough. But wouldn't those who worship JC strive to be as he was? And if so they would never be able to. Why is it that he says when you worship looks, it kills you if you're don't look perfect? The strive is what is important. I am not saying that worshiping looks is a good thing.
@AQS2014 When he talks about worship he's discussing how we derive our self esteem from things that are impermanent. Thus, our self esteems are a source of suffering, of feeling that we never have enough. A beautiful woman will succumb to the natural effects of aging--it's unavoidable--and if she "worships" her beauty, then she will agonize about every little fault that comes with the process of again. It's the fear of loss that consumes the beautiful woman, the powerful man, etc.
@AQS2014 I am not exactly sure if this is what it means, or if even my interpretation is correct. But I would assume that because worshiping looks or money is material, humans tend to believe that if they work hard enough they will achieve it and there in lies the problem. Worshipping JC or "some inviolable set of ethical principles" on the other hand is spiritual and mental and it is assumed that we will never be able to be perfect and that is why here the strive is what matters.
@Aretala I think that's the basic gist of it. Almost anything you worship will be your downfall. It goes along with the "religious impulse" that Wallace was always talking about. American's are living in a culture that extolls the virtues of selfishness and vanity, and we are all looking to give ourselves away to something. Whether that something is money, drugs, religions, etc. In IN JEST a character says we must believe in something bigger than ourselves. Our country, for instance.
DFW says that we get to choose what to worship, and that one reason to choose to worship a Deity or some sort of Cosmic Principle is that if you choose to worship money, beauty, or power, those things will *eat* *you* *alive*. But he's missing an important point that I think deserves some further clarification:
If you worship Cthulhu, you get to worship a God *AND* get eaten alive.
i hate it how people wont understand this just because he hasn't said it screaming from a stand, waving his arms and shaking his finger to enunciate every syllable. what he's talking about is what everyone has felt. and if you haven't felt that, then maybe you should do the speeches instead.
He had "this is water" as a facebook status and i knew he was saying more than that. So i googled it and i feel like i just looked in his head...and i liked it
to the uploader: thank you so much, for this. every time I hear it- it brings tears to my eyes- especially since David Foster Wallace's profound, painfully powerful and yes, beautiful eloquence is silenced forever. it is one thing to read this 'speech', but I feel privileged that his voice was captured reading it for us to hear it..
"None of this stuff is really about morality or religion or dogma or big fancy questions of life after death. The capital-T truth is about life BEFORE death."
As much as I enjoy DFW, this strikes me as a a fucked up and cynical version of the same oft told platitudes of living positively. Humans are anxious animals. No matter how you choose to define your reality you will always want to increase or decrease the focus of your intellectual energy in some way, whether it be power or beauty etc. That energy shouldn't be bridled, or devoted to a farce (God), but rather applied in some meaningful way. Banality is a social disease, no one should accept it.
How ever if one wishes to change to world and make it a better place, one needs to not accept and be happy with the way things are. To not accept the conservative mindset that it is good now ,i have what i want now, so do not change a thing now. For most not making commencement speeches we are not happy with what is now. Our world is that of the checkout clerk or will be if you want nothing to change. For what do most of you really have now other then the potential to effect change?
pure genius. his mind must have been constantly racing with thought..the question is whether this happened naturally for him, or if he constantly made a conscious choice to think critically the way he did. An idol to say the least!
pure genius. his mind must have been constantly racing with thought..the question is whether this happened naturally for him, or if he constantly made a conscious choice to think critically the way he did. An idol to say the least!
this brings a smile xept for the part this only has just under 3k views, when a sneezing panda has 90 million views... something of deep substance and reality and something ppl SHOULD hear only has just under 3 thousand shouldn't be, to everyone who heard this.. share it with your friends, live it, tell it, experience it.
He talks about how learning how to think will keep you from walking around dead and give you freedom. Not worshiping money or beauty. But why do I have to chose a life where I would have to remind myself "This is water."? Why can't I reject the supermarkets, lines, traffic, modern society and the headaches of the world and live my dream? People listen to this speech and feel inspired, but only half as many people even listened to the second half as the first. Who really acts on this stuff?
He never said that it was incorrect to choose to follow your "default settings." He's talking about being more aware and putting in the "effort" to see that you have a choice. That it's possible to evaluate a seemingly personally unfair and petty situation and to learn something of value about yourself or others from it.
@GodSquadMandrake Part of not "walking around dead" is not living in a dream. If you want to live in this world, you must learn to manage the experiences, not turn away from them and plunge into unreality. Facing reality, and seeing the beauty under it all, is how we attain freedom.
I do. I was thinking about this in a traffic jam after work today. I was tired and pissed off about how long it was taking to get home. So I remembered DFW, I put on some good music, took a deep breath, relaxed and felt a thousand times better.
i don't really think that's the way he was using the parable. it seems to me that "this is water" is something that, after listening to this speech and understanding the destructiveness of our modern society's "default settings", one should want to remind themselves, rather than feel obligated to do so. "this is water" seems a way to make the most banal of moments somehow meaningful. and don't we all dream of meaningful lives? maybe not.
@GodSquadMandrake Are there really dreams that don't involve supermarkets, lines, traffic, or modern society? If you grow your own food, you still need to farm it, if you are a professional athlete you still have to wait to board airplanes, and not living in modern society, you'd better have a way to acquire the things you need to survive; not to mention your family might prefer that you can provide them with the usual niceties available in life, like travelling or buying a new car.
You would be surprised at just how many people actually listened to the second half of this speech rather than the first---and equally surprised at just how many people really DO act on this stuff--and even more surprised as to how many act on this stuff based on the inspiration from this exact speech, and even variants of it. Shame on you for knowing better and choosing not to use your knowledge positively.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha @ 3:50
As he is talking about how the stereotypical liberal arts graduate thinks, they all applaud like the liberal arts graduates they are. Proves his point beautifully
socceriscool981 1 day ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@medzshakes @shaftiloniusmonk Damn... My comment was refering to the text version on wall street journal where he states: "The capital-T Truth is about life before death. It is about making it to 30, or maybe 50, without wanting to shoot yourself in the head." Although they claim it to be a transcript of the above speech this phrase doesn't appear in the youtube version. So my comment doesn't make sense at all...
Eiparo 3 days ago
Comment removed
Eiparo 3 days ago
so much capitol-T Truth in this speech. . . .
lovegoodbooboo 1 week ago
Soooo intense! :O
winxclubmusafan66 2 weeks ago
I think some of the laughter is misplaced, kind of takes away from the message, but it's easy to ignore it.
yazzy613 2 weeks ago
@yazzy613 I think that is mostly because they weren't really understanding what he is saying. It happens often when I attend lectures of very intelligent people. It is dense stuff and not everyone can fully grasp it, especially at that age.
kernjesus 1 week ago
it's desillusionig that he wants to present a way of not shooting oneself after ten years and then ends up killing himself. Thinking seems to be overestimated...
Eiparo 2 weeks ago
@Eiparo david foster wallace battled depression throughout his entire life. he didn't kill himself because his advice was bullshit, he killed himself because he was beyond the reach, even of the things which he knew to be true, like the things he says in this speech.
shaftiloniusmonk 4 days ago
@Eiparo His advice obviously flew right over you if you use his suicide as a basis for how 'correct' what he's saying is. I've started to experience what he's referring to when he talks about adult life being unsexy and tedious and soul-crushing. I'm in my third year of university; in the first year I spent it chasing a hedonisitc ideal; in the second I spent it living a very boring but more 'mature' life. The fact that I was forced to grow up used to piss me off, this gave me a new perspective.
medzshakes 4 days ago
Comment removed
jas0609 4 weeks ago
i like the xylophones and the end thanks for sharing
SpaceCad3ttt 4 weeks ago
What xylophone?
xk23 4 weeks ago
@xk23 at the end
medzshakes 4 days ago
thanks for posting this!
BKrtojGLASS 1 month ago
I laughed when the xylophones started. But I was already crying because this was so beautiful.
lhnz 1 month ago
@sffh1986 People's natural reaction to being made uncomfortable is often inappropriate laughter.
If you listen closely, you can hear the laughter die down as he progresses into the heart of the point he's making.
And again- like Wallace says, he cannot force anyone to see the world in the way he's advocating- that is entirely the choice of the listener.
Don't listen to other people's reaction to Wallace's speech- listen to your own.
Theomastus 2 months ago 4
@sffh1986 why? he's an incredibly witty man making funny asides.
Theomastus 2 months ago
Love this speech, but got so distracted with the misuse of the word athiesm. I understand what he is trying to say, but athiesm isn't about rejecting worship, surely?
UnluckyGuitar 2 months ago
@UnluckyGuitar Here's how I thought of it: Atheism, in a sense, is the belief that there are no gods. What I believe Wallace was saying is that everyone worships something; everyone holds something higher in importance or belief than everything else. Whether it's money, power, intelligence, or gods, that thing becomes the person's god. In that sense, no one is an atheist because everyone has a god that they hold higher than all things in their lives, and worship that thing, intentionally or not.
coralrose798 2 months ago
I recently read this speech in My English class and was in completely shock and awe. It was profound and extraordinary. From start to finish. I've never fallen in love with a piece of writing this fast.
Paintrain95 2 months ago
It blows my mind that a man who has got it all figured out could take his own life 3 years later
Allanrpsx 2 months ago 3
@Allanrpsx No one has it all figured out.
samaraisnt 2 months ago
@Allanrpsx - he was coming down off of a medication for clinical depression that was no longer effective for his condition. There was a lot that was stacked against him, medically, that makes it understandable, but certainly no less tragic :/
bennyv04988 2 months ago
@Allanrpsx Speaking as someone who has battled with clinical depression all my life, I will tell you this: what keeps us going, every day, day in and day out is this: hope.
One of the first thing that a major episode of clinical depression takes from you is the ability to envision anything ever getting any better than it is right now, and how it is RIGHT NOW is so intolerable you would often rather die than go on.
There's only so long you can feel like that and keep going.
Theomastus 2 months ago
the music at the end isn't them trying to get him off the stage is it?!
bennyv04988 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What do DFW and Jesus Christ have in common?
Both suffered immensely for us.
Both carried a crippling burden on their backs to the top of a mountain.
Both inevitably ended up being crucified by that burden.
And finally, both died to give hope to the rest of us who find existence so unbearably confusing, that there is not a day that goes by where we don't say--what the hell is water?
Thanks David, I might decide to live longer
chrisp1987 2 months ago
Comment removed
chrisp1987 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Why the fuck would I listen to some moran who ended up killing himself? I'd rather read the autobiography off someone interesting and smart who didnt end up suiciding... lol... fucking idiot
Dazza3500 3 months ago
I wish you way more than luck is such a beautiful thing to say.
unsolvedrobyn 3 months ago 10
This has been flagged as spam show
i wish you way more than luck
Shaqtus100 3 months ago
Yea, the man is simply alive when he comes to the terms of reality. But, I have to admit, the xylophone at the end really just lost my train of thought. Overall, Kenyon College had a great man with great wisdom.
SpecialBoxTops 3 months ago
Comment removed
perrycd12321 3 months ago
Comment removed
perrycd12321 3 months ago
~ if the xylophones bother you, i'm not sure you were listening...
fpowerm 3 months ago 47
Wow. That was beautiful. I'll think about this for a while.
kenodobi 3 months ago
BLEW MY FUCKING MIND
Im sober as a judge too
12Kringle82 4 months ago 6
Apathy: a-pathos. To be apathetic is to deny what it is to be human; to feel.
iMentieth 5 months ago
7:20 "but sacred, on fire with the same force that lit the stars...the mystical oneness of all things deep down"
YES
ah332 5 months ago
I guess this is inspiring? I mean it's good, but I wouldn't call it brilliant. The meat of it isn't really anything I haven't heard before
Requinix17 6 months ago
@Requinix17 that's the whole point. truth is in the skeleton of a thousand stories. its not about what you know, about knowledge, its about how you choose to see it. its unsexy, petty, and beautiful. let me know if you hear a commencement speech that you personally would call brilliant, not flashy or funny, but brilliant. i think this one is personally.
joeyadesantis 6 months ago
Wallace is Beckett via metempsychosis, born a few decades after 1906 so too late to keep American pop culture out of his work while remaining artistically honest. Who else could make the ambivalence inherent in "the freedom of all to be lords of our own tiny skull-sized kingdoms, alone at the center of all creation" so clear? The vision of mindfulness Wallace offers is historically situated, a response to the water in which we 21st-century reasonably well off folks find ourselves swimming.
jogagas 6 months ago 2
@jogagas
How is this not the top comment?
Zorgdos 4 months ago
Worship: Besides religious references, there is another def:
: extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem
I agree some people show much esteem to movie stars, etc. but I would not call that worship. The clue here is extravagant or ardent, which might be accorded to other people, but I don't agree we worship objects, except Catholic idols. Everything I have ever owned, while I enjoyed, I never worship. Most are junked now. Any other def is Christian slang.
gjsterp 6 months ago
@gjsterp But do you think that there is such a thing as worshipping not worshipping?You know, devoting yourself to nothing could still be devotion.
MrMadrid691 6 months ago
@MrMadrid691 I don't consider devoting time to any particular thing devotion, as the term is normally used.
Religious people tend to try and apply their terms to non-theists in an attempt to cloud the issues.
One can be devoted to one's wife, children, job and church, but I do not call the worshiping.
Worshiping requires one to get down on ones knees.
Also, I do not devote myself to 'nothing.' I devote my time to reason and logic.
gjsterp 6 months ago
this is water, this is water, this is water....
KVVT 7 months ago
Thanks for sharing.
vinnidel 7 months ago
@TheTruthJunkie You worship your truth and your junkieness and your exceptions to the rules.
alifeleti 7 months ago
I agree with everything he said, except that everyone worships. There is nothing that I worship. Maybe I am the exception to the rule.
TheTruthJunkie 7 months ago
@TheTruthJunkie Sounds like you worship your individuality.
gokinsmen 7 months ago
@gokinsmen
Not at all. While I enjoy my individuality, I equally enjoy being part of a group or community.
TheTruthJunkie 7 months ago
@TheTruthJunkie you worship your own ability to not worship things
angiechick101 5 months ago
@angiechick101 lol. That's very clever, but no. I don't think that would even be possible. To worship my own ability to not worship things would make that ability non-existant. Therefore, I would be worshiping something that does not exist. Being an atheist, I'm not in the habit of worshiping things that don't exist. I like the way you think, though
TheTruthJunkie 5 months ago
Comment removed
kalair 5 months ago
@kalair Yes, I do have a set of ethical principles I follow. However, having a set of rules that you follow is not the same as worshiping something, and that is not what DFW was saying. He said that everyone worships, and the compelling reason for maybe choosing to worship God or some spiritual type thing; whether it be JC, Allah, Yahweh, the Wiccan mother goddess, the four noble truths or some set of ethical princaples, is that anything else you worship will eat you alive.
TheTruthJunkie 5 months ago
Comment removed
kalair 5 months ago
@kalair I guess you missed the point of me quoting him, so I will spell it out for you. He listed 'some set of ethical principles' in his list of 'god or some spiritual type thing'. Therefore, he is referring to a set of principles derived from spiritual belief.
The definition of worship is somewhat open to interpretation, but the definition of atheism is pretty straight forward. 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God; 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
TheTruthJunkie 4 months ago
Comment removed
kalair 4 months ago
@kalair Whether he misunderstood what atheism is or whether he used it in a way other than it is defined, either way the statement was incorrect, which is why I disagree with it. No, that is not what he was saying. What he said was; everyone worships something and if you worship anything other than something spiritual "it will eat you alive". Perhaps you should go back and listen from 8:00 to 8:30 and actually listen to what he is saying.
TheTruthJunkie 4 months ago
Comment removed
kalair 5 months ago
Comment removed
kalair 5 months ago
@TheTruthJunkie You could be worshiping that ability without realizing you are doing so. I'm not saying you are, just saying you could be. Self deception happens all the time. Yes, it would mean that your ability to not worship things wouldn't be a real ability, but people worship things that aren't real all the time (even if they claim not to. read: the self deception I mentioned earlier). Again, I'm basically arguing semantics, not claiming to know how or what you are doing.
starius1154 4 months ago
@starius1154 That is true. Self deception is very common, and I have certainly fell victim to it myself. Seeing, and accepting. ones own flaws is one of the hardest things for a person to do.
TheTruthJunkie 4 months ago
@TheTruthJunkie Actually, there is one other thing I disagree with him on, and it ties in with the everyone worships statement. He said there is no such thing as atheism because everyone worships. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, supreme being or anything supernatural. It is entirely possible for someone to worship something, like money, and still be an atheist.
TheTruthJunkie 5 months ago
@TheTruthJunkie Atheists worship the human intellect and its power to rationally deduce the meaninglessness of metaphysical statements and that the world they experience is all that there is. They worship "life on earth" as sacred whereas the religious worship eternal life as sacred and earthly life as transient. As has been said, DFW uses worship without religious connotations (there's no "deity of fashion" or money in a serious sense) and argues from pragmatism rather than dogma.
greatfulkitteh 4 months ago
@greatfulkitteh That may be true of many atheists but not me. I think the human intellect has flaws just like anything else, and I certainly don't think the world I experience is all that there is. I do find life precious, not sacred, but I do not worship it. I understand that he was not using worship with religious connotations and I never claimed he was. I simply disagreed with the statement that everyone worships.
TheTruthJunkie 4 months ago
@TheTruthJunkie Incidentally, I've always been curious about atheists' stance on the "beginning of it all" — if one does not believe in a god or creator, one must accept that effect (the raw material of the universe) can materialize without cause (a creator, something to put it all there), which is akin to believing that something can come from nothing. IMO this is a metaphysical claim. That's why I'm agnostic: I don't think god or a lack thereof can be adequately demonstrated rationally.
greatfulkitteh 4 months ago
@greatfulkitteh I don't presume to speak for all atheists but as for my stance on the beginning of it all is, well....I don't know. I doubt we will ever really know. I don't think that not believing in a god or creator means you have to believe thing can materialize out of nothing. I certainly don't believe that. That is actually something theists would need to believe in. After all, if god created everything then where did god come from.
TheTruthJunkie 4 months ago
@TheTruthJunkie I assume theists would say "God is and has always been" or something...so yeah, God was always around (and if that means he came out of nothing then he did). But as far as the atheist's claim, it's just like...where did everything come from? If you assume an infinite chain of cause & effect is possible, the question's moot, but I feel like atheist vs. religion it just comes down to one additional cause at the beginning of the chain: is it God or just serendipitous cosmic dust?
greatfulkitteh 4 months ago
@greatfulkitteh quantum mechanics tells us events do not need "causes" - hawking has revealed this much. in planck dimensions (big bang era) quantum rules apply and the big bang can "happen" without newtonian 'first-this-then-this' cause and effect
IcyIconoclast 1 month ago
Man I wish he was still alive
Ainocorrida81 7 months ago
ever think we have to do this because we are compromising and molding ourselves into beings who can live in this sick society...
we must do this so we can live in peace. we must do this to live in peace because otherwise it's impossible this is impossible in the american dream
and we must do this so we don't realize that this is not natural, this life is pulsating with illness and there is nothing we can do to change it
zcaism 8 months ago
Reference frames. Each of us has his own reference frame. All reference frames are valid. The trick is identifying if your reference frame helps you predict the future.
wbtittle 9 months ago
People are really retarded for laughing... Really stupid.
The first time I encountered this speech, I read it. Sure, I laughed a little to myself at certain parts, but nowhere near as much as these students, and it left me pretty sad but touched.
Now I've listened to it, and I don't even crack as much of a smile about certain parts because I think about it more, yet they're cracking up with laughter. Shame.
MaidenRocks99 9 months ago
@MaidenRocks99 it's a little different reading a speech for the first time somewhere out of context, knowing exactly who the author is, and probably knowing that he committed suicide, than actually being a graduate from Kenyon College in the class of 2005 AT your graduation, seeing a speaker who you may or may not know, and being unaware that the speaker will kill himself in the future.
gsabram 9 months ago
@gsabram Hmm. I guess you do bring up a good point.
He's alive and breathing there, and they don't really have a clue, where as we know what happens. Hm. I dunno, still hard to get past the notion of it being as funny as they think it is, maybe because of that.
MaidenRocks99 9 months ago
The music at the end is really distracting. I don't need your xylophones thank you very much! I just want to listen. thanks for posting though
hoffmajd 9 months ago 21
@hoffmajd someone didnt listen to anything Wallace suggested before the poster's "stupid xylophone" came along
carlo88moe 3 months ago 2
@CantEatBabies DFW acted on it. he killed himself.
togglescratch 9 months ago
this is brilliant and well done, it makes you think about the big picture. i strongly believe every graduate should listen or read this.
BirdCadavers 9 months ago
I don't think I've ever been moved as profoundly as I have after reading this speech. Listening to it was even better. Brilliant stuff.
TheMrWhomp 9 months ago 3
Why are there so many people laughing? This is supposed to be serious
fernanhid 9 months ago 2
@fernanhid Because there are so many idiots in the audience. He takes it in good humour but it must have been quite disheartening how many people missed the point.
IronChariots 9 months ago
It's awesome enough that we're able to listen to audio of this speech but I wish that a video of this would pop up at some point.
elsmeg 10 months ago
This speech was well-delivered, but the content was insignificant to me. I don't believe that everyone worships something. When he speaks of worshiping money, power, or looks, he has a point that we never feel good enough. But wouldn't those who worship JC strive to be as he was? And if so they would never be able to. Why is it that he says when you worship looks, it kills you if you're don't look perfect? The strive is what is important. I am not saying that worshiping looks is a good thing.
AQS2014 10 months ago
@AQS2014 When he talks about worship he's discussing how we derive our self esteem from things that are impermanent. Thus, our self esteems are a source of suffering, of feeling that we never have enough. A beautiful woman will succumb to the natural effects of aging--it's unavoidable--and if she "worships" her beauty, then she will agonize about every little fault that comes with the process of again. It's the fear of loss that consumes the beautiful woman, the powerful man, etc.
palmdog63 9 months ago
@AQS2014 I am not exactly sure if this is what it means, or if even my interpretation is correct. But I would assume that because worshiping looks or money is material, humans tend to believe that if they work hard enough they will achieve it and there in lies the problem. Worshipping JC or "some inviolable set of ethical principles" on the other hand is spiritual and mental and it is assumed that we will never be able to be perfect and that is why here the strive is what matters.
Aretala 9 months ago
@Aretala I think that's the basic gist of it. Almost anything you worship will be your downfall. It goes along with the "religious impulse" that Wallace was always talking about. American's are living in a culture that extolls the virtues of selfishness and vanity, and we are all looking to give ourselves away to something. Whether that something is money, drugs, religions, etc. In IN JEST a character says we must believe in something bigger than ourselves. Our country, for instance.
sob270 7 months ago
DFW says that we get to choose what to worship, and that one reason to choose to worship a Deity or some sort of Cosmic Principle is that if you choose to worship money, beauty, or power, those things will *eat* *you* *alive*. But he's missing an important point that I think deserves some further clarification:
If you worship Cthulhu, you get to worship a God *AND* get eaten alive.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Cthulhu R'lyeh fhtagn!
Ia! Ia! Ia!
mickycisme 10 months ago 6
Great speech. Probably best commencement I've heard. Props to Wallace and I hope he found peace on the day of his suicide.
epik151 10 months ago 2
i hate it how people wont understand this just because he hasn't said it screaming from a stand, waving his arms and shaking his finger to enunciate every syllable. what he's talking about is what everyone has felt. and if you haven't felt that, then maybe you should do the speeches instead.
tommoking7 10 months ago 3
He hates US
gotgayed 10 months ago
@CantEatBabies Is there a way to reconcile and realize your dream in reality?
thepyrrhiclife 10 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
He chose to kill himself. So much for his wisdom.
Fortunato92 10 months ago
@Fortunato92 He suffered from depression for 20 years. It's a disease of the mind, nothing could help him.
PTabs88 10 months ago
@PTabs88 Who says he needed helping? Perhaps he was among the few who are able to come to terms with Truth.
epik151 10 months ago 3
@epik151 If the truth led him to suicide there would be no point to life
PTabs88 10 months ago
He had "this is water" as a facebook status and i knew he was saying more than that. So i googled it and i feel like i just looked in his head...and i liked it
Oreoreogirl 10 months ago
Why did whoever put this together put that awful music into the climax of the speech?
8923874687236472 10 months ago
@8923874687236472 Seriously, it kinda ruined his great statement, "I wish you way more than luck".
TheNatedogg56 10 months ago
Comment removed
DanielBrassington 10 months ago
to the uploader: thank you so much, for this. every time I hear it- it brings tears to my eyes- especially since David Foster Wallace's profound, painfully powerful and yes, beautiful eloquence is silenced forever. it is one thing to read this 'speech', but I feel privileged that his voice was captured reading it for us to hear it..
ldeliane 11 months ago 8
hahahahahhahahahah!!! I love him!
Anal3t1cia 11 months ago
Hmm. Nothing very profound here. He's talking about emotional maturity, nothing more.
annabluebell 11 months ago
@annabluebell I would like to hear your more profound speeches, oh great orator
hellomoto909 11 months ago
@annabluebell I would like to hear your more profound speeches, oh great orator.
hellomoto909 11 months ago
"None of this stuff is really about morality or religion or dogma or big fancy questions of life after death. The capital-T truth is about life BEFORE death."
LadyGodiva1234 11 months ago
As much as I enjoy DFW, this strikes me as a a fucked up and cynical version of the same oft told platitudes of living positively. Humans are anxious animals. No matter how you choose to define your reality you will always want to increase or decrease the focus of your intellectual energy in some way, whether it be power or beauty etc. That energy shouldn't be bridled, or devoted to a farce (God), but rather applied in some meaningful way. Banality is a social disease, no one should accept it.
maxsmouha 11 months ago
Life changing
mandomtz 1 year ago 4
amazingly well written speech
sydriam999 1 year ago
How ever if one wishes to change to world and make it a better place, one needs to not accept and be happy with the way things are. To not accept the conservative mindset that it is good now ,i have what i want now, so do not change a thing now. For most not making commencement speeches we are not happy with what is now. Our world is that of the checkout clerk or will be if you want nothing to change. For what do most of you really have now other then the potential to effect change?
masluxx 1 year ago
@CantEatBabies becoase you didn't make it your dream
belilav 1 year ago
pure genius. his mind must have been constantly racing with thought..the question is whether this happened naturally for him, or if he constantly made a conscious choice to think critically the way he did. An idol to say the least!
nickmost 1 year ago
pure genius. his mind must have been constantly racing with thought..the question is whether this happened naturally for him, or if he constantly made a conscious choice to think critically the way he did. An idol to say the least!
nickmost 1 year ago
Does anyone else find his message akin to some of those of Buddhism:
1- Suffering is universal, and
2- Joyful participation in the sorrows of life
MrYezdi 1 year ago 5
@MrYezdi
it's similar to a million ideas, his genius lies in his ability to deliver this message in a clear and inspiring way.
skulleton 1 year ago
Toward the end there are still potential laughter cues, but the audience stop laughing, they get beautifully silent.
anthonydc50 1 year ago 8
this brings a smile xept for the part this only has just under 3k views, when a sneezing panda has 90 million views... something of deep substance and reality and something ppl SHOULD hear only has just under 3 thousand shouldn't be, to everyone who heard this.. share it with your friends, live it, tell it, experience it.
ViperRob42 1 year ago 2
His last great work.
CastleRockFan 1 year ago
brilliant.
NotJeffpecina 1 year ago 44
He talks about how learning how to think will keep you from walking around dead and give you freedom. Not worshiping money or beauty. But why do I have to chose a life where I would have to remind myself "This is water."? Why can't I reject the supermarkets, lines, traffic, modern society and the headaches of the world and live my dream? People listen to this speech and feel inspired, but only half as many people even listened to the second half as the first. Who really acts on this stuff?
GodSquadMandrake 1 year ago
@GodSquadMandrake,
He never said that it was incorrect to choose to follow your "default settings." He's talking about being more aware and putting in the "effort" to see that you have a choice. That it's possible to evaluate a seemingly personally unfair and petty situation and to learn something of value about yourself or others from it.
lixiaofun 1 year ago 2
@GodSquadMandrake
There are people who reject modern society. You could be one of them, if you so choose. Or you could criticize other peoples' motivations on youtube.
sundar213 1 year ago 2
@GodSquadMandrake Part of not "walking around dead" is not living in a dream. If you want to live in this world, you must learn to manage the experiences, not turn away from them and plunge into unreality. Facing reality, and seeing the beauty under it all, is how we attain freedom.
Ematched 1 year ago 3
@GodSquadMandrake
"Who really acts on this stuff?:
I do. I was thinking about this in a traffic jam after work today. I was tired and pissed off about how long it was taking to get home. So I remembered DFW, I put on some good music, took a deep breath, relaxed and felt a thousand times better.
andrewtheman19 1 year ago 9
@GodSquadMandrake
i don't really think that's the way he was using the parable. it seems to me that "this is water" is something that, after listening to this speech and understanding the destructiveness of our modern society's "default settings", one should want to remind themselves, rather than feel obligated to do so. "this is water" seems a way to make the most banal of moments somehow meaningful. and don't we all dream of meaningful lives? maybe not.
supposedlymaybe 1 year ago 4
@GodSquadMandrake. risking apathy is easy, risking empathy is difficult.
lixiaofun 10 months ago 39
@GodSquadMandrake Are there really dreams that don't involve supermarkets, lines, traffic, or modern society? If you grow your own food, you still need to farm it, if you are a professional athlete you still have to wait to board airplanes, and not living in modern society, you'd better have a way to acquire the things you need to survive; not to mention your family might prefer that you can provide them with the usual niceties available in life, like travelling or buying a new car.
topspin4hand 10 months ago
@GodSquadMandrake
You would be surprised at just how many people actually listened to the second half of this speech rather than the first---and equally surprised at just how many people really DO act on this stuff--and even more surprised as to how many act on this stuff based on the inspiration from this exact speech, and even variants of it. Shame on you for knowing better and choosing not to use your knowledge positively.
ArcticRose7 10 months ago
Beautiful.
wahzooo 1 year ago 4