This is hilarious. It would be more productive if instead of parading yourselfs like fools, you injected abit of academic thought into what it is you exactly have a problem with, regarding the Panorama programme. Can someone enlighten me how it was biased. There wasnt even a straight forward conclusion at the end of it. It portayed Israel as a strategic disaster, and the Humanitarians as people with an Agenda.
I don't know about you, but the one time I accidently took out of date medication I ended up in hospital because my condition worsened. Wow, so desperate they'll take out-of-date medication which won't even do anything? Stupid more like, as it's potentially dangerous.
The documentary wasn't accusing everyone on the ship of being violent, it shows that a group of hardcore millitants who WANTED MARTYRDOM took over the ship cos they wanted a showdown with the IDF.
The documentary even shows people on the ship helping an IDF soldier who got stabbed and protecting him from people who wanted to kill him. So there you go, documentary never said everyone on that ship was violent. There were genuine people on there who wanted to help the Gazan's but also saw sense that picking a fight with the IDF was quite daft and counter-productive.
The confrontation was entirely initiated by Israeli forces.
As I have already stated it is not possible for an old cruise ship to take on modern American military vessels ( paid for with American tax dollars ), much less a helicopter !
Would you condemn people who resisted takeover of their ship by Somali pirates for example as daft ?
Remember this incident occurred some 200 miles from Gaza in International waters.
The absence of any footage of Israeli violence - 9 people were killed and some 50 wounded.
The autopsies revealed that several of the bodies had execution-style gunshot wounds to the head.
Jane Corbin was so "honoured" to be embedded with the attack force that she did not interview a single British member of the convoy ( yes , they were there, but they would have spoilt the terrorist profile ).
Numerous items " confiscated" by the attackers have never been returned.
So, the Israeli forces were not only killers but petty thieves as well.
If you doubt this, an Israeli officer ( full lieutenant ) was charged with misconduct for selling computers stolen from those on board to his colleagues.
So, the Israeli forces were not only killers but petty thieves as well.
If you doubt this, an Israeli officer ( full lieutenant ) was charged with misconduct for selling computers stolen from those on board to his colleagues.
I am a firm believer that if there is no suffering on either side, there will be peace. Therefore, it's in the interest of everyone that the ordinary citizens of Gaza have good living conditions.
HOWEVER, you cannot deal with Islamic extremists such as Hamas. They want an Islamic state of Palestine, not a free state that everyone can join in. They've stated they don't want a single Jew in the area. Define a Jew. Someone who is actively religious,1 Jewish grandparent,get my gist?
Abbas (I think, could've been someone else) recently said he doesn't want any Jews in any NATO force patrolling borders of a future Palestinian state. Again, racist? There's plenty of Jews out there who support Palestinians whole-heartedly. He denied that's what he said, but Al-Quds paper still quoted him saying that.
I feel sorry for anyone suffering from the conflict, regardless of the side their on. I just don't have sympathy for religious extremists (that includes Israelis)
Far from that at present though. One of the most devastated places on earth, with little opportunity for rebuilding as Israel has also blockaded all cement.
As I stated before, I have no love for Hamas, but this type of irresponsible action on the part of Israel plays right into their hands.
Again, Israel helped to create Hamas.
With the killing of the voluntary aid workers they have scored a spectacular own goal in P.R. terms.
If they wanted a confrontation they would've had automatic firearms??? Honey, automatic firearms aren't the only way to hurt someone. I don't think you'd be too pleased if someone decided to assault you with a firearm or a metal bar. They're both just as lethal.
Of course I'd want something to be done for my sick child, but after my own personal experience I'd be incredibly dubious with them being given out-of-date stuff. There's a reason for the expiry date!
Where's your critcism of Egypt in all of this? Seems a bit one sided to blame EVERYTHING on Israel.
I find it interesting that the only people who were killed were all IHH activists, an organisation that the CIA consider to be linked to terrorism. The IDF also boarded other ships, no-one got hurt and no-one resisted.
Jane Corbin interviewed an American from the convoy who lives in London. He seemed a perfectly sane, peaceful person to me. Or does the accent matter to you?
It is the country receiving the 2nd greatest amount of foreign aid from the US !
No prizes for guessing that Israel receives the most by far .
As a result the government has been "bought" to favour Israeli interests.
I was quite anti Egypt when I learnt this, but have been told that aid volunteers who took supplies to Gaza found Egyptians friendly and largely supportive.
They clashed with their own police to ensure delivery of supplies to Gaza.
Love Americans generally - just returned from a visit to the US. Saved us from the Commies.
Great country, but a huge amount of disinfomation/ pro-Israeli propaganda there due to the powerful lobbies.
Not mad about the accent it's true.
Did you not pick up on Ms. subtle inference by implication.
She took great pains to ensure we knew he was an ex-Marine i.e. military trained i.e.would be useful in a conflict situation i.e. selected for mainly this purpose ?
When they chose Hamas they were knew they were choosing a virulent antisemite party why not PLO? Anyway if Hamas had not rained rockets on innocent civilians none of this would have started,but of course israeli suffering is of no consequence to you.And many people on the boat WERE Hamas supporters.
Unfortunately Gaza is in the grip of the fascist Hamas,they are Israels implacable enemy and anyway Israel does allow aid through it,s own controls. these people are what is known as useful idiots,wankers.
I am always amazed how people like you obsess about Israel but not Saudi Arabia or Iran etc. This year Iran has hung many political prisoners,gays etc. not to mention burying people up to their waist and stoning them to death for adultery yet Israel is what bothers you,the only democratic country in the region.
@dynaco well done to the bbc. they got it right this time. showed the HATE flotilla for what it was. now the program is being seen and reported on around the world.
@buckfastdrinker Israel has created a Warsaw Ghetto for the 21st century in Gaza and we're supposed to believe that those on the flotilla are the haters? No-one buys that - except other haters like yourself. Time for the Nuremberg Trials 2.
@Skibby2005 ive no idea what a hater is. if it means do i hate palestinians ? the answer is a big no. i am very aware of the true situation. i have been to gaza strip and israel many times this past 17 years ! i was in rafah and gaza july this year. yes some israelis suffer similar hardships. supression ? are you aware that hamas has now ruled that all girls ( of any age ) and woman are not allowed to ride a bicycle ? now thats real supression !
Are their houses being demolished ( in some instances while busloads of right wing civilians come to cheer !).Are they denied the right to vote? Do they have walls built by a foreign invader inside their own country?
Are they being shot for merely being in the vicinity of a protest?
Are their food , medicines and other vital supplies confiscated, withheld and denied ?
@buckfastdrinker The truth will never be accepted here because the people are antisemites so called left wingers who support hamas! You could not make it up.
@Skibby2005 You're generous Skibby! From buckfastdrinker's statement below that he was in Gaza in July, he's probably IDF & was on another invasion into Gaza in July. He certainly wouldn't have been there as a humanitarian or with UNRWA or the like - not with his attitude. He also appears to have a fixation w/ the flotilla & that the BBC docu somehow proved Israel didn't do the wrong thing w/ their murderous commando-raid on the high seas.. Also not aware of any Israel equivalent, there is none.
did you forget that israel suffered from terror attacks which were commited by palestinians and israeli arabs??? sometimes every week! shall i show you the pictures? the busses which were bombed???
did you forget the rockets??? too many rockets??? only G-D helped Israel, and made miracles- almost none got hurt!
Would you like to see pictures of white phosphorus ( banned by international treaty ) used on women and children in Gaza !
Even a UN "safe" building was attacked repeatedly, deliberately.
Let's recall the numbers : over 1,400 ( conservatively ) in Gaza with a great majority of women and children.
During the same period total Israeli casualties - oh ! only 9 ( still too many I agree but not comparable with the above ) and remember this includes soldiers killed by Israeli fire.
One observer. Don't know anything about him - his name indicates possible Jewish origins.He may well be a Zionist sympathiser.
The British armaments industry does a great deal of business in Israel and may be a further factor for bias.
On the other hand there are a multitude of UN observers from many countries who condemned Israel's disregard for civilian targets and deliberate attacks on UN safe houses or outposts.
They don't want foreign observers to report their atrocities.
@Skibby2005 no .more people are hoping for peace in that region. a 2 state solution !
the only mistakes that were made is that they didnt expect to be confronted with such violence when boarding the ship. those ihh guys were caught by the nuts. filmed with their own cameras etc
@Skibby2005 genocide??? you are so ignorant! Israel is the only state in the middle east who accepted the poor darfurian refugees who are suffering from genocide in sudan.
isn't it ironic? the darfurian refugees are muslims but no muslim state in the middle east agreed to accept them, and egypt is shooting them when they tried to go to egypt. but israel- which is not muslim- is accepting them and helping them...
go go learn some history and news before you show your lack of information
Like most pro-Zionist ( as opposed to Jewish or Israeli ) apologists you cannot face up to the fact that Israel has become a rogue nation - the description of a Jewish academic - not mine ).
Even Apartheid South Africa had black people queuing up to get in !
Obviously ( well to most people ), I refer to Israeli "apartheid" against Palestinians. They are denied access to their own lands, are disenfranchised, forcibly removed from their homes,made to live in squalor, and treated as second-rate citizens (or worse ).
Not too far from apartheid.
Desmond Tutu (and Nelson Mandela) have condemned Israeli policy and described it as worse than Apartheid.
@Skibby2005 i'll improve my english, don't worry. i'm speaking more languages like german, so i make mistakes sometimes. please, try to understand me...
pre 1945??? well israel had some communities- jews, muslims. the muslims killed jews in hebron and in the center....
israel is helping the darfurian refuggees from the genocide. but it's strange you know- in sudan muslims are murdering muslims... i can't understand the logic... whatever
There are many instances of Christians killing Christians etc.
Not much logic in many of these situations.
The objection to Israel is the official policy of establishing more and more "settlements" on Palestinian soil in defiance of international resolution, which is supported even by the US which is usually blindly pro-Israel.
The palestinians are suppressed and denied basic human rights.
I watched the BBC Panorama report on the raid on the Mavi Marmara.. just awful - so obviously biased.
Why didn't the "journalist" ask about all the footage of the raid that was stolen from the journalist and activists on board? And why it was stolen in the first place?
Utterly pissweak. Back to bed Aunty, you're a spent force.
Unfortunately not much choice really as it is obligatory.
They wouldn't receive much funding from the public otherwise.
Does mean that other channels can be viewed to get a more balanced perspective.
Some of the other national broadcasters such as Russia and France can be surprisingly interesting and Al Jazeera is much more balanced than I expected ( available on Freeview ).
UK Prime Minister David Cameron’s forebears have a long history in financial racketeering. His great-great grandfather, Emile Levita, a German Jew, was related to the German- Goldsmid banking family, and obtained British citizenship in 1871. He was the director of the Chartered Bank of India, Australia and China. - PLEASE Watch these videos - Lyndon LaRouche explains start of WW III . or - The Obama Deception. here on youtube. Google - Abolish Federal Reserve Petition. and sign it
"buckfastdrinker" has obviously been drinking too much buckfast - whatever that may be - and his brain has been further addled by watching too much BBC drivel ( should that be the Biased B.C. ? ).
The "real" reason for the convoy was purely and simply much needed humanitarian aid to besieged Gaza. If they were intent on confronting Israeli forces, they could easily have been armed themselves.You can be sure that if any significant arms were discovered Israel would have screamed about it.
@Skibby2005 Re Buckfastdrinker - he doesn't allow me to reply to him, so I'll reply to Skibby. The Balen report was never published, a request was made to the information commissioners but they upheld that it could be an internal report. So it proves nothing. But an independent report commissioned by the Board of Governors showed that that Palestinians did not have fair coverage.
Like the ill-informed self appointed detective Ms Corbin you have a very tenous grasp of the situation.
The assumption that out of date medication is proof that it was not meant as aid is totally erroneous ( and would only be used if you are desperate to make a case ).
In fact, it highlights how appalling the situation is for the citizens of Gaza.
They would rather have out of date medication than none at all.
This also applies to many parts of Africa e.g. mission hospitals.
Bigotry + ignorance = spurious assumptions and inane conclusions.
The "iron bars" were hastily taken from the ship for self defence after several threats by the Israeli navy ( did you not watch the video ?)
These people were in fear of their lives - quite correcty as it turned out .
The iron bars were never intended as aid, although Israeli restrictions are so draconian that even this would be welcome in trying to rebuild homes destroyed in the invasion of Gaza.
@Skibby2005 Really - is that why they just opened a new shopping mall for the local elite? Ordinary in Gaza people go hungry while the rich stuff themselves with goodies - well socialist eh?
Regardless of what the USA considers a terrorist organisation ( remember they are renowned for blindly supporting Israel and Zionism regardless of the circumstances ) and I am not sure that Germany subscribes to this view or who the alleged "many states" are, the fact is that the individuals who were murdered by the Israeli assault force were volunteer humaniarian aid workers and basically unarmed.
Their killers were a heavily armed attack force equipped with modern automatic firearms.
@Skibby2005 IHH is not a proscribed organisation in either Europe or USA. It is not considered a 'terrorist' organisation in either Europe or USA. Orna has been misinformed.
the truth hurts. the usa considers to recognize the IHH as a terror organization. the german TV showed the IHH as a terror organization and so did many states. so maybe the IHH is a terror organization.... the truth hurts.
@Orna2712 Truth is a subjective issue, everyone sees it differently, and we should respect each others' differences. But the issue with the BBC is that it HAS to show all sides - it is part of its obligations, to me a licence payer. It also seems insensitive to champion a particular 'truth' before independent reports have finished their enquiries. Incidentally, currently neither Europe nor USA proscribes IHH, and it is not listed as a terror organisation - whatever that is!
@suzieq0452 No, he is a human being in need of respect and love, who has different views to us. I do not support his view, but I would defend his right to have them, and express them. But the BBC is a different matter because it is a public organisation with responsibilities of impartiality and accuracy.
The people killed were human beings, with families that love them, who are all desperately bereaved. It is appalling that BBC adds to their distress by broadcasting a film that calls the victims terrorists. Whoever made this decision at the BBC should hang their head in shame.
@Skibby2005 The important thing is that Israel did not state that the filmmaker was Israel Goldvitch productions, which has a Zionist persective. It also did not give any information about its editorial independence and any conditions that were imposed by the IDF in return for the Corbin being embedded with their commandos. This was a serious omission.
@Skibby2005 They made a film about the siege of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem with the same production company in 2002, and after criticism agreed that they were wrong not to identify the filmmaker. So there is a precedent from an earlier BBC programme and they obviously did not learn the lessons. They do have an obligation to the licence payer to be accurate and objective, and these editorial standards and conditions of their licence have obviously been breached. Do write to them.
@Skibby2005 They were all making pyramid shapes with their hands even the paki in charge. It seems to me that the whole event was sponsored by the Freemasons and only fools like you actually believe in the myth of reality.
@Jjudithb If I am not mistaken, self defence does mean you can kill people if life is threatened. In BLACK SOUTH AFRICA, the police have a "shoot to kill" policy. Would you rather the Israelis be clubbed to death? In this world, each has to fight to survive. Only a fool would club a man with a gun. They got what they deserved.
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funny
CostaRicaMarketing 3 months ago
THEY DID NOT HAVE TO FIGHT DID THEY ?
THESE PEOPLE STARTED THE FIGHTING !!!
STOP SPREADING RUBBISH !!!
m12ha3l 1 year ago
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Ha Ha Ha, you fucking clowns.
Reichsfuhrer1979 1 year ago 4
This is hilarious. It would be more productive if instead of parading yourselfs like fools, you injected abit of academic thought into what it is you exactly have a problem with, regarding the Panorama programme. Can someone enlighten me how it was biased. There wasnt even a straight forward conclusion at the end of it. It portayed Israel as a strategic disaster, and the Humanitarians as people with an Agenda.
Tell me otherwise?
Jlangleben1 1 year ago
@skibby2005:
I don't know about you, but the one time I accidently took out of date medication I ended up in hospital because my condition worsened. Wow, so desperate they'll take out-of-date medication which won't even do anything? Stupid more like, as it's potentially dangerous.
The documentary wasn't accusing everyone on the ship of being violent, it shows that a group of hardcore millitants who WANTED MARTYRDOM took over the ship cos they wanted a showdown with the IDF.
katsy2010 1 year ago
The documentary even shows people on the ship helping an IDF soldier who got stabbed and protecting him from people who wanted to kill him. So there you go, documentary never said everyone on that ship was violent. There were genuine people on there who wanted to help the Gazan's but also saw sense that picking a fight with the IDF was quite daft and counter-productive.
katsy2010 1 year ago
@katsy2010
The confrontation was entirely initiated by Israeli forces.
As I have already stated it is not possible for an old cruise ship to take on modern American military vessels ( paid for with American tax dollars ), much less a helicopter !
Would you condemn people who resisted takeover of their ship by Somali pirates for example as daft ?
Remember this incident occurred some 200 miles from Gaza in International waters.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005
I have one question: did you actually watch the Panorama episode?
katsy2010 1 year ago
@katsy2010
Indeed . Did you ?
Not worth much actually.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005
Why wasn't it worth much? (yes, I saw it)
katsy2010 1 year ago
@katsy2010
It neglected to mention so much :
The reason for the desperate need for aid.
The absence of any footage of Israeli violence - 9 people were killed and some 50 wounded.
The autopsies revealed that several of the bodies had execution-style gunshot wounds to the head.
Jane Corbin was so "honoured" to be embedded with the attack force that she did not interview a single British member of the convoy ( yes , they were there, but they would have spoilt the terrorist profile ).
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@katsy2010
Apologies. I ran out of space.
Numerous items " confiscated" by the attackers have never been returned.
So, the Israeli forces were not only killers but petty thieves as well.
If you doubt this, an Israeli officer ( full lieutenant ) was charged with misconduct for selling computers stolen from those on board to his colleagues.
Not all the aid was released either.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
kers have never been returned.
So, the Israeli forces were not only killers but petty thieves as well.
If you doubt this, an Israeli officer ( full lieutenant ) was charged with misconduct for selling computers stolen from those on board to his colleagues.
Not all the aid was released either.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@katsy2010
You impress me as someone who is genuinely interested in the truth - finding out more about the real situation.
I was formerly staunchly pro Israel until I became aware of the daily suffering inhumanity and atrocities they are commiting.
The plight of Gaza was first brought to my attention by a Jewish doctor over a decade ago.
He was doing volunteer work in an attempt to relieve some of the suffering.
I can refer you to several sources which may help achieve a true perspective.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005
I am a firm believer that if there is no suffering on either side, there will be peace. Therefore, it's in the interest of everyone that the ordinary citizens of Gaza have good living conditions.
HOWEVER, you cannot deal with Islamic extremists such as Hamas. They want an Islamic state of Palestine, not a free state that everyone can join in. They've stated they don't want a single Jew in the area. Define a Jew. Someone who is actively religious,1 Jewish grandparent,get my gist?
katsy2010 1 year ago
@katsy2010
Abbas (I think, could've been someone else) recently said he doesn't want any Jews in any NATO force patrolling borders of a future Palestinian state. Again, racist? There's plenty of Jews out there who support Palestinians whole-heartedly. He denied that's what he said, but Al-Quds paper still quoted him saying that.
I feel sorry for anyone suffering from the conflict, regardless of the side their on. I just don't have sympathy for religious extremists (that includes Israelis)
katsy2010 1 year ago
@katsy2010
Agree fully about Gaza.
Far from that at present though. One of the most devastated places on earth, with little opportunity for rebuilding as Israel has also blockaded all cement.
As I stated before, I have no love for Hamas, but this type of irresponsible action on the part of Israel plays right into their hands.
Again, Israel helped to create Hamas.
With the killing of the voluntary aid workers they have scored a spectacular own goal in P.R. terms.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@katsy2010
A lot depends on how long out of date the medicines are.
Certainly 3-6 months is widely considered to be relatively safe.
This is common practice in many mission hospitals.
It is not "stupid" just force of circumstance.
If your child was dying because of lack of medical facilities would you not want something to be done rather than nothing at all ?
Regarding the militants : If they really wanted confrontation they would have had automatic firearms.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005
If they wanted a confrontation they would've had automatic firearms??? Honey, automatic firearms aren't the only way to hurt someone. I don't think you'd be too pleased if someone decided to assault you with a firearm or a metal bar. They're both just as lethal.
Of course I'd want something to be done for my sick child, but after my own personal experience I'd be incredibly dubious with them being given out-of-date stuff. There's a reason for the expiry date!
katsy2010 1 year ago
@katsy2010
Sweety, you can even hurt someone with words !
Point is that modern firearms can inflict much more damage than " sticks and stones ".
Why else would armed forces spend billions on modern weaponry ( in the caseof Israel, most of this is provided for them by US taxpayer dollars ) ?
Even the metal bars were hastily improvised after several threats by the Israeli navy. They were not taken aboard as such as the video clearly shows .
Advice don't take a knife to a gunfight !
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@katsy2010
Finally honey, I am reassured to know that you would be dubious about out-of -date medication, but ,of course, you have a choice !
Hospitals in Gaza. thanks to the illegal Israeli blockade do not.
They even lack reliable, safe drinking water and power - Israel deliberately targetted essential civilian infrastructure during the invasion !
Of course expiry dates serve a purpose, but when you have nothing else you do not have the luxury of choice.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005
Where's your critcism of Egypt in all of this? Seems a bit one sided to blame EVERYTHING on Israel.
I find it interesting that the only people who were killed were all IHH activists, an organisation that the CIA consider to be linked to terrorism. The IDF also boarded other ships, no-one got hurt and no-one resisted.
Jane Corbin interviewed an American from the convoy who lives in London. He seemed a perfectly sane, peaceful person to me. Or does the accent matter to you?
katsy2010 1 year ago
@katsy2010
Egypt is a perplexing issue.
It is the country receiving the 2nd greatest amount of foreign aid from the US !
No prizes for guessing that Israel receives the most by far .
As a result the government has been "bought" to favour Israeli interests.
I was quite anti Egypt when I learnt this, but have been told that aid volunteers who took supplies to Gaza found Egyptians friendly and largely supportive.
They clashed with their own police to ensure delivery of supplies to Gaza.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@katsy2010
Love Americans generally - just returned from a visit to the US. Saved us from the Commies.
Great country, but a huge amount of disinfomation/ pro-Israeli propaganda there due to the powerful lobbies.
Not mad about the accent it's true.
Did you not pick up on Ms. subtle inference by implication.
She took great pains to ensure we knew he was an ex-Marine i.e. military trained i.e.would be useful in a conflict situation i.e. selected for mainly this purpose ?
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@katsy2010
Also, what is wrong with British -born residents with no military background.
A bit too difficult to classify in the terrorist/aggressor mould ?
There are several of them who would gladly have recounted their own personal experiences but were denied an opportunity to do so.
Another fact that was conveniently ignored was that the commandos seized / destroyed as much recorded evidence on board as they could.
Wouldn't want the world to see how brutal they really are.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
When they chose Hamas they were knew they were choosing a virulent antisemite party why not PLO? Anyway if Hamas had not rained rockets on innocent civilians none of this would have started,but of course israeli suffering is of no consequence to you.And many people on the boat WERE Hamas supporters.
anwarsat 1 year ago
@anwarsat
The PLO was also vilified by Israel as a radical terrorist organization..
Israel persistently undermined them over many years.
This made them appear ineffective and Hamas gained .
If you refuse to negotiate with moderates you are forced to deal with extremists.
Israel was instumental in the creation of Hamas !
The "rockets" are largely "homemade" devices - a desperate attempt at retaliation against a brutal regime.
I stated that not ALL aid workers were supporters of Hamas.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
Unfortunately Gaza is in the grip of the fascist Hamas,they are Israels implacable enemy and anyway Israel does allow aid through it,s own controls. these people are what is known as useful idiots,wankers.
anwarsat 1 year ago
@anwarsat
Gaza is in the grip of the racist Israeli regime actually ( forced removals, home demolitions, ethnic cleansing, apartheid etc. )
The citizens can hardly be blamed for looking for someone to stand up for them - the rest of the worldhas done a pretty poor job so far !
It may surprise you to know that the aid is intended for the people of Gaza - not Hamas !
Many of the aid workers do not support Hamas and are not Muslim.
Are you perhaps a useful pro-Zionist idiot ?
Skibby2005 1 year ago
I am always amazed how people like you obsess about Israel but not Saudi Arabia or Iran etc. This year Iran has hung many political prisoners,gays etc. not to mention burying people up to their waist and stoning them to death for adultery yet Israel is what bothers you,the only democratic country in the region.
anwarsat 1 year ago
@anwarsat
I too condemn certain practices in Saudi and especially Iran, and have no great regard for either government.
Neither of them are democratically elected, which Hamas is ( much as I, and many other Gaza supporters, may dislike it ).
I have recently signed petitions protesting against the stoning of an Iranian woman for alleged adultery.
I am not sure that Israel can be considered a true democracy merely because it holds elections.
Many Palestinians in Israel have no vote.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
lols, what a bunch of tools.
badnewswade 1 year ago
@badnewswade
Bunch of tools ?
You refer, I assume, to the producers of Panorama.
Or perhaps the blindly accepting viewers who still believe Israel can do no wrong.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
Comment removed
Orna2712 1 year ago
And kudos to Bristol PSC for their demo!
dynaco 1 year ago
@dynaco well done to the bbc. they got it right this time. showed the HATE flotilla for what it was. now the program is being seen and reported on around the world.
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker Israel has created a Warsaw Ghetto for the 21st century in Gaza and we're supposed to believe that those on the flotilla are the haters? No-one buys that - except other haters like yourself. Time for the Nuremberg Trials 2.
dynaco 1 year ago
@dynaco
I do not get the impression that buckfastdrinker is really a "hater".
Probably just not fully aware of the true situation - not surprising really, given the bias and lack of full coverage by the mainstream media.
A visit to Gaza would be a real eye-opener !
Not aware of any remotely similar hardship and suppression suffered by Israelis.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 ive no idea what a hater is. if it means do i hate palestinians ? the answer is a big no. i am very aware of the true situation. i have been to gaza strip and israel many times this past 17 years ! i was in rafah and gaza july this year. yes some israelis suffer similar hardships. supression ? are you aware that hamas has now ruled that all girls ( of any age ) and woman are not allowed to ride a bicycle ? now thats real supression !
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker
Hater = one who hates.
You still appear to have no idea.
Israelis suffer hardships? Really?
Are their houses being demolished ( in some instances while busloads of right wing civilians come to cheer !).Are they denied the right to vote? Do they have walls built by a foreign invader inside their own country?
Are they being shot for merely being in the vicinity of a protest?
Are their food , medicines and other vital supplies confiscated, withheld and denied ?
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker
Not allowed to ride a bicycle - how awful !
Isreal denies them not only bicycles, but cooking equipment,sanitation, water and food - in a different league altogether.
Do you know of the arbitrary list of ordinary foods that Israel does not allow into Gaza ?
No chocolate or jam or peaches - to punish the children of Gaza.
Kindly list similar humiliations, atrocities and suppressions imposed on Israelis.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker The truth will never be accepted here because the people are antisemites so called left wingers who support hamas! You could not make it up.
anwarsat 1 year ago
@anwarsat
Ah! The old anti-semitism claim.
Anyone who is vaguely critical of Israeli policy is automatically an anti-semite.
Does this include Israeli Human Rights groups?
They recently successfully prosecuted an army officer for shooting a Palestinian without any cause.
What about the many Jews worldwide who are increasingly concerned about the plight of the Palestinians.
Anti-semites all ?
Many of the aid campaigners do not support Hamas are are not even Muslim !
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 You're generous Skibby! From buckfastdrinker's statement below that he was in Gaza in July, he's probably IDF & was on another invasion into Gaza in July. He certainly wouldn't have been there as a humanitarian or with UNRWA or the like - not with his attitude. He also appears to have a fixation w/ the flotilla & that the BBC docu somehow proved Israel didn't do the wrong thing w/ their murderous commando-raid on the high seas.. Also not aware of any Israel equivalent, there is none.
dynaco 1 year ago
@dynaco their motives have been exposed.
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker
What about the Israeli governments motives of Apartheid, forced removals, detention without trial and genocide ?
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 you are stupid!
did you forget that israel suffered from terror attacks which were commited by palestinians and israeli arabs??? sometimes every week! shall i show you the pictures? the busses which were bombed???
did you forget the rockets??? too many rockets??? only G-D helped Israel, and made miracles- almost none got hurt!
Orna2712 1 year ago
@Orna2712 * no one
Orna2712 1 year ago
@Orna2712
Would you like to see pictures of white phosphorus ( banned by international treaty ) used on women and children in Gaza !
Even a UN "safe" building was attacked repeatedly, deliberately.
Let's recall the numbers : over 1,400 ( conservatively ) in Gaza with a great majority of women and children.
During the same period total Israeli casualties - oh ! only 9 ( still too many I agree but not comparable with the above ) and remember this includes soldiers killed by Israeli fire.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 ok- there is a british answer about it- take a look here on youtube:
colonel richard kemp goldstone: (look at the video)- he said stuff like:
"And I say this again: the IDF did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare."
Orna2712 1 year ago
@Orna2712
One observer. Don't know anything about him - his name indicates possible Jewish origins.He may well be a Zionist sympathiser.
The British armaments industry does a great deal of business in Israel and may be a further factor for bias.
On the other hand there are a multitude of UN observers from many countries who condemned Israel's disregard for civilian targets and deliberate attacks on UN safe houses or outposts.
They don't want foreign observers to report their atrocities.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 well he is not jewish :) he is british :) and he a great colonel.
good luck
Orna2712 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker
No .
Like Israel itself they got it spectaculalry wrong !
More people worldwide are realizing this.
Israel's own high command admitted that serious mistakes were made at the highest level !
Impartial viewers will increasingly dismiss the Biased Broadcasting Corp. as a definitve source ofreference.
Pity really, as it once enjoyed an unique reputation.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 no .more people are hoping for peace in that region. a 2 state solution !
the only mistakes that were made is that they didnt expect to be confronted with such violence when boarding the ship. those ihh guys were caught by the nuts. filmed with their own cameras etc
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker
What right did they have to invade the ship in the first place ?
Should ships attacked by Somali pirates surrender peacefully to avoid confrontation.
It could be claimed that the Nazis only shot Jews who resisted - the others were taken "peacefully" to concentration camps. What rubbish.
How an old cruise ship, manned by aid workers, hastily armed with bits of furniture attack a helicopter ?
Skibby2005 1 year ago
Comment removed
Orna2712 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker
No.
Like Israel itself they got it spectacularly wrong !
More people worldwide are realising this.
Israel's own high command admitted that mistakes were made at the highest level !
Impartial observers will increasingly dismiss the Biased Broadcasting Corporation as a reliable source of reference.
Pity really, as it once enjoyed an unparalleled reputation for accurate reporting.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@dynaco These will continue and grow in size,number and impact.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 genocide??? you are so ignorant! Israel is the only state in the middle east who accepted the poor darfurian refugees who are suffering from genocide in sudan.
isn't it ironic? the darfurian refugees are muslims but no muslim state in the middle east agreed to accept them, and egypt is shooting them when they tried to go to egypt. but israel- which is not muslim- is accepting them and helping them...
go go learn some history and news before you show your lack of information
Orna2712 1 year ago
@Orna2712 Yeah, it's a funny sort of Aparthied state that has black people queueing up to get in, isn't it?
badnewswade 1 year ago
Comment removed
Orna2712 1 year ago
@Orna2712 I agree - I was being sarcastic.
Think I will absent myself from this increasingly moronic discussion.
badnewswade 1 year ago
@badnewswade
Largely so due to your "contribution".
Like most pro-Zionist ( as opposed to Jewish or Israeli ) apologists you cannot face up to the fact that Israel has become a rogue nation - the description of a Jewish academic - not mine ).
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@badnewswade
Not really.
Even Apartheid South Africa had black people queuing up to get in !
Obviously ( well to most people ), I refer to Israeli "apartheid" against Palestinians. They are denied access to their own lands, are disenfranchised, forcibly removed from their homes,made to live in squalor, and treated as second-rate citizens (or worse ).
Not too far from apartheid.
Desmond Tutu (and Nelson Mandela) have condemned Israeli policy and described it as worse than Apartheid.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Orna2712
Helping them to take over occupied Palestinian land no doubt.
Israel will accept almost anybody if they are prepared to become settlers and displace the rightful Palestinian occupants.
They will even arrange the army to cover forcible removals so that they enforce Zionist expansionism.
You are woefully ill-informed .
Look up Israel on a pre- 1945 map - surprise ! Wasn't there was it?
All taken from Palestine.
You "go go learn some history.
Oh and improve your English too.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 i'll improve my english, don't worry. i'm speaking more languages like german, so i make mistakes sometimes. please, try to understand me...
pre 1945??? well israel had some communities- jews, muslims. the muslims killed jews in hebron and in the center....
israel is helping the darfurian refuggees from the genocide. but it's strange you know- in sudan muslims are murdering muslims... i can't understand the logic... whatever
Orna2712 1 year ago
@Orna2712
Impressed by your determination with languages.
I agree, the world is a strange place.
There are many instances of Christians killing Christians etc.
Not much logic in many of these situations.
The objection to Israel is the official policy of establishing more and more "settlements" on Palestinian soil in defiance of international resolution, which is supported even by the US which is usually blindly pro-Israel.
The palestinians are suppressed and denied basic human rights.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
I watched the BBC Panorama report on the raid on the Mavi Marmara.. just awful - so obviously biased.
Why didn't the "journalist" ask about all the footage of the raid that was stolen from the journalist and activists on board? And why it was stolen in the first place?
Utterly pissweak. Back to bed Aunty, you're a spent force.
dynaco 1 year ago
@dynaco keep paying your licence fee though wont you ?
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker
Unfortunately not much choice really as it is obligatory.
They wouldn't receive much funding from the public otherwise.
Does mean that other channels can be viewed to get a more balanced perspective.
Some of the other national broadcasters such as Russia and France can be surprisingly interesting and Al Jazeera is much more balanced than I expected ( available on Freeview ).
Skibby2005 1 year ago
Comment removed
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
@dynaco
A sentiment shared by a growing number of viewers !
Skibby2005 1 year ago
the balen report
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
The Balen report was never published.
Jjudithb 1 year ago
@Jjudithb and why was that ?
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
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yendytok 1 year ago
"buckfastdrinker" has obviously been drinking too much buckfast - whatever that may be - and his brain has been further addled by watching too much BBC drivel ( should that be the Biased B.C. ? ).
The "real" reason for the convoy was purely and simply much needed humanitarian aid to besieged Gaza. If they were intent on confronting Israeli forces, they could easily have been armed themselves.You can be sure that if any significant arms were discovered Israel would have screamed about it.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 aint it funny that israelis also consider bbc biased also. google THE BALEN REPORT !!
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker Israel considers any programme that does not entirely support them as being biased !
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 Re Buckfastdrinker - he doesn't allow me to reply to him, so I'll reply to Skibby. The Balen report was never published, a request was made to the information commissioners but they upheld that it could be an internal report. So it proves nothing. But an independent report commissioned by the Board of Governors showed that that Palestinians did not have fair coverage.
Jjudithb 1 year ago
@Jjudithb it wasnt published , and they spend 1000 s of pounds of your licence fee s to prevent it being published..............i smell a rat.
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 so at least israel and the palestinians have that in common.
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker
A pity they don't seem to appreciate that they have a lot more in common.
Would be great to see some real progress for a change.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 much needed humanitarian aid = out of date medicine and iron bars
badnewswade 1 year ago
@badnewswade
Like the ill-informed self appointed detective Ms Corbin you have a very tenous grasp of the situation.
The assumption that out of date medication is proof that it was not meant as aid is totally erroneous ( and would only be used if you are desperate to make a case ).
In fact, it highlights how appalling the situation is for the citizens of Gaza.
They would rather have out of date medication than none at all.
This also applies to many parts of Africa e.g. mission hospitals.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 So that's why the stuff was left in warehouses for months, eh?
badnewswade 1 year ago
@badnewswade
A lot of aid intended for Gaza is left in Israeli warehouses for months or not delivered at all !
Hence the determination to deliver it directly to Gaza.
On recent road convoys the aid was given directly to citizens of Gaza ( thus bypassing Hamas ).
It may also interest you to know that aid was given to non-Muslim Gazans, including a Baptist congregation.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@badnewswade
Bigotry + ignorance = spurious assumptions and inane conclusions.
The "iron bars" were hastily taken from the ship for self defence after several threats by the Israeli navy ( did you not watch the video ?)
These people were in fear of their lives - quite correcty as it turned out .
The iron bars were never intended as aid, although Israeli restrictions are so draconian that even this would be welcome in trying to rebuild homes destroyed in the invasion of Gaza.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 Really - is that why they just opened a new shopping mall for the local elite? Ordinary in Gaza people go hungry while the rich stuff themselves with goodies - well socialist eh?
badnewswade 1 year ago
Regardless of what the USA considers a terrorist organisation ( remember they are renowned for blindly supporting Israel and Zionism regardless of the circumstances ) and I am not sure that Germany subscribes to this view or who the alleged "many states" are, the fact is that the individuals who were murdered by the Israeli assault force were volunteer humaniarian aid workers and basically unarmed.
Their killers were a heavily armed attack force equipped with modern automatic firearms.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 IHH is not a proscribed organisation in either Europe or USA. It is not considered a 'terrorist' organisation in either Europe or USA. Orna has been misinformed.
Jjudithb 1 year ago
the truth hurts. the usa considers to recognize the IHH as a terror organization. the german TV showed the IHH as a terror organization and so did many states. so maybe the IHH is a terror organization.... the truth hurts.
Orna2712 1 year ago
@Orna2712 Truth is a subjective issue, everyone sees it differently, and we should respect each others' differences. But the issue with the BBC is that it HAS to show all sides - it is part of its obligations, to me a licence payer. It also seems insensitive to champion a particular 'truth' before independent reports have finished their enquiries. Incidentally, currently neither Europe nor USA proscribes IHH, and it is not listed as a terror organisation - whatever that is!
Jjudithb 1 year ago
Comment removed
Orna2712 1 year ago
buckfastdrinker should be called IsraeHELLI Scumsucker. Go suck up somemore IsraeHELLi PROPAGANDA on the BBC you Dumb ZIONIST Piece of Shit.
suzieq0452 1 year ago
@suzieq0452 No, he is a human being in need of respect and love, who has different views to us. I do not support his view, but I would defend his right to have them, and express them. But the BBC is a different matter because it is a public organisation with responsibilities of impartiality and accuracy.
Jjudithb 1 year ago
@suzieq0452
sure are full of hatred arent you ?
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
what a waste of time that was. the bbc uncovered the real reason for the hate flotilla and you all cry like children.
hope you all came away with your egos stroked.
now im off to watch news on bbc 1.
keep paying your tv licence folks !!!
Delete
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
The panorama programme was shocking.
The people killed were human beings, with families that love them, who are all desperately bereaved. It is appalling that BBC adds to their distress by broadcasting a film that calls the victims terrorists. Whoever made this decision at the BBC should hang their head in shame.
Jjudithb 1 year ago
@Jjudithb the truth was set free...........
buckfastdrinker 1 year ago
@buckfastdrinker " The truth was set free ... "
Very much so ...... it certainly was nowhere to be found in the Panorama programme......
Deception, duplicity, omissions half-truths and outright lies were the order of the day.
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 The important thing is that Israel did not state that the filmmaker was Israel Goldvitch productions, which has a Zionist persective. It also did not give any information about its editorial independence and any conditions that were imposed by the IDF in return for the Corbin being embedded with their commandos. This was a serious omission.
Jjudithb 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 They made a film about the siege of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem with the same production company in 2002, and after criticism agreed that they were wrong not to identify the filmmaker. So there is a precedent from an earlier BBC programme and they obviously did not learn the lessons. They do have an obligation to the licence payer to be accurate and objective, and these editorial standards and conditions of their licence have obviously been breached. Do write to them.
Jjudithb 1 year ago
@Skibby2005 They were all making pyramid shapes with their hands even the paki in charge. It seems to me that the whole event was sponsored by the Freemasons and only fools like you actually believe in the myth of reality.
herbertwarmstrong 1 year ago
@herbertwarmstrong
A garbled and surrealistic reply, but no more non-sensical than the BBC programme.
Pyramid signs indeed - sure indication of terrorism !
Do I detect a note of racism in the" Paki" reference ?
Skibby2005 1 year ago
@Jjudithb If I am not mistaken, self defence does mean you can kill people if life is threatened. In BLACK SOUTH AFRICA, the police have a "shoot to kill" policy. Would you rather the Israelis be clubbed to death? In this world, each has to fight to survive. Only a fool would club a man with a gun. They got what they deserved.
herbertwarmstrong 1 year ago
@herbertwarmstrong
Curioser and curioser. "Black" South Africa ?
Are there more than one ?
Whose lives were threatened ?
Clubbed to death as opposed to what ?
Skibby2005 1 year ago