Xingyiquan (形意拳 Xingyi Quan, Hsing I Chuan, Hsing Yi Chuan) Form and Applications

[6arcsn1sky]

Looks different compared to xinyiliuhequan.

[perestgon]

看不到形意內家拳的內3合及外3合的意念........

[taipingvlg]

@perestgon  這完全取決於你對形意拳六合的理解程度。

[GermanChocolateCake]

I've been reading up on this form, and I wonder what part of the demonstration represents Heng, if any...

[lifeistruelyabsurd]

I've just started recently training in Dai Style Hsing I(as well as some of the other Southern Chinese martial arts). I totally agree, the maturation process that occurs is as important as the art itself. I had studied Hawaiian Kenpo before and even then I have never wanted to have to use it. Hope I never have to. I study for self defense but in my mind the idea that it will help me as I age is just as important.

[michapolak]

like his monkey.nice

[tybaker1]

Yeah son this is real sh''' ive done hsing for fours years a friend of mine try to be funny and hit from behind without me knowing my body reacted by it self and blasted him chi is very real and dangerous

[maekelon8]

This kungfu Xingyiquan, is a style thatI i really want to learn, besides my practical wing chun training. There are a lot of similarities between them, except for the more internal part of xingyi. (fortunately my sigung (Wan Kam Leung) has learned chikung with masters in mainland china for almost 2 years, somewhere near beijing, and has put it in his system, so in the long run, i will be able to learn it from my sifu) I hope there are some good Xingyi teacher in the Netherlands.

Kungfu regards!

[israelifaggot]

i did xing yi for two years, those of you think it is not real have some learning to do. one time after practicing chi gung san ti, me and my brother had a little push around, and somehow, without thinking i pushed him and literally sent him into the air without effort. i cant do it conciously, it only happens when i am in a state of no-mind. i also wrestled with some big strong guys and not one could take me down, xing yi gives amazing leg strength and balance.

[giosia03]

Who would you think would win a master of jiu jitsu or of xing yi?

[israelifaggot]

good question, difficult to say because theoretically a master of xing yi should be able to kill someone with one blow and when jujitsu gies goes for the double leg they expose the back of their head, which if hit with an internal strike would kill someone. i think if the xingy guy is taken to the ground he loses all his power and is defenseless because the power in xing yi comes from the legs up, i have no idea, jujitsu is a sport, xing yi is not inhibited by rules.

[rAFiCoRe]

there is the dragon ground technique for just that purpose. but still, a good xing yi practitioner should be able to defend against a lunge from a jujuitsu guy. you can see in the video that the 5 elements are not only striking but also hooking and catching motions, so if you get the flow of those elements or fists you'll be able to react just in the right way.

[s013081]

if they both are masters, then they have no need to fight anymore. masters don't fight each other when it is not necessary

[randyds5]

its the user my friend. not the art. styles cannot fight. its impossible.

[mbutchin]

@giosia03 Whoever had spent the most time and effort in his/her training.

[randyds5]

xing yi is legendary. You guys should check out some of my vids. My xing yi vids have grappling applications and much more. I train my xing yi for health and figthing. If anyone thinks xingyi is a fake system ....remember that it was invented for the military!

[israelifaggot]

hsing i is nothing like either

[elchewo1]

some great applications there. im studying lau gar at present and would like to study xing yi in the future.

[genkaiyatsudan]

hehe, thats what u call, traditional mixed MA,, hehe

[genkaiyatsudan]

ooohhh, bagua mixed with wing chun

[memetic23]

Indeed WingChun principles all come from XingYi.I have trained both and I have encountered the same basic principles.The main difference I would identify is in generation of power.WingChun is much more external.I found it comparable on that level to LiuHe, which also has a lot of XingYi principles but uses external power.The video shows very nice XingYi.I am used to much more linear/foward directed power.We do circular movement, but much more subtle and compressed than seen here.

[kaindrg]

yo finally a martial art vid where i dont see mma spam on the comments

[Lynwe]

haha =D

[imthepowerer4999]

xing yi is combination of animal forms so soliders can train in them faster condensd basicly

[schorfonkel]

Jip, Wing chun reminds me of Hsing i

[egglot12]

i love this style, reminds me of wing chun

[ITF91]

what is the name of the music you use in this video?

[wsanders787]

Tell if I'm wrong, but I see elements of Tiger style, white crane, snake and leopard in xingyichuan. Is this correct? How close is Wing Chung to Xing Yi?

[MarkRocchio]

Xing yi, Northern Shaolin and Tai Chi are the three bases of kung fu. Most animal based kung fu styles come from Xing yi's 12 animal forms. They include tiger, horse, monkey, snake, rooster, tortiose, phoenix etc. Wing Chun came several centuries after the development of XI, NS and TC. Wing Chun's spinning fists have a base in XI's Monkey form. WC is a great style with many efficient attacks and defenses. UTube has examples of XI's animal styles. ck out XI monkey. You'll see WC's spinning fists.

[drchango2010]

as my Hung Gar and Wing Chun instructor was fond of saying "these styles didn't evolve in a vacuum"

Also, something profound my friend's capoeira instructor used to say (he had a background in Thai boxing and northern Shaolin) "There are only so many ways in which the human body can move"

[Bason1971]

well VANJAKKOSTJUK bugger me half a year we should call you master fuckwitt it takes a life time just to get to the piont of being pretty good at it

[VANJAKKOSTJUK]

I practice Chen style tai chi for almost half a year and I'm pretty good at it.Could I start practicing Xing Yi or Ba gua and/or be good at all of them?

[Cairono]

whats the difference between chen taiji and xing yi? it also says xing yi is very direct, but when I look at those videos it's the same with chen taiji

[trash65]

why dont you see any of this stuff on the ufc ?

[taipingvlg]

To trash65:

The reason is very simple. Following the grand tradition of Chinese martial arts teaching, a martial artist should use his skill to defend the home and the country, to help those in danger, and to fight for justice. He practices the arts as a means to pursue Dao, not to be a gladiator. He does not fight simply for money or fame.

[taoboxer9]

@taipingvlg Best comment ever! Kudos!

[jetle25]

@taipingvlg

Word

[airsoftwannabe618]

@taipingvlg if they don't do it for money, how come kung fu classes are so expensive?

[somagoku]

@airsoftwannabe618

Time and Labor usually equals wages. Also the experience level of the Sifu/Kwoon and Lineage comes into play. just keep searching and researching to find a Kung-Fu School. sometimes the small schools are the best ones (from my experience).

[angryaznman]

@airsoftwannabe618 teaching for money is the same as fighting for money to you?

Chinese and westerners really are worlds apart i guess.

[airsoftwannabe618]

@angryaznman depends on what the teacher/fighter does with the money i suppose

[gamewraith]

As well, many of the techniques and moves utilized are barred in the UFC. A lot more casualties and blood if they allowed them ; )

[BushiBato]

@trash65 also because the scope is different.what is better,mass growing pesticide laden crops,or carefully raising organic ones that are not very easy to purchase?yet both are necessary it seems.Same thing.MMA will teach you to kick ass soon and with muscle.But what happens when your muscle runs out?These arts are the opposite,takes MUCH more effort than MMA,but yields life long results and(remember the food analogy?)has much wider scope.Hope this helps.I train MMA and Nei Jia both.

[steve0281]

@trash65 Xingyi has a long tradition of full contact championships in China going back over one hundred years, or since they have been having such things. The question is why don't you see MMA fighters competing in Chinese tournements?

[cioccolatosexy]

Yeah, Bruce intended to leave no stone unturned. Unfortunately, hsing-i is like a reflection in water until you've studied enough that you become the stone. For that reason, people will always dismiss it unless they experience it for themselves by someone who actually knows what they're doing. Here's to hoping Hsing-I eventually gets it's day of true recognition.

[cioccolatosexy]

Internal mechanics require years of proper study to grasp the intellectual concepts behind them. There are deep changes that take place in the tendons and bones and overall structural integrity. Reading a book on the matter would be like learning to play a guitar using a piano. That said, wing chun, jeet kune do and hsing-i do have many philosophical and tactical similarities. If he had had the right teach, with his determination and resourcefulness he could have become a demi-god!

[namfujaw]

possible.. but a book is far from the real thing... my opinion too lol

[Jxr3r]

Very nice. Thank you

[pedroamedro]

00:54 he gives the fingre just look.

[thant88]

sparring part is cool. demonstration looks like a show, didn't look useful

[cfG21]

it looks different in sparring doesn't it? that's why you can't judge a book by it's cover

[taipingvlg]

To cfG21:

A form is just a set of organized exercises. The form training in Chinese/Japanese/Korean martial arts has many purposes. The applications in the video are just the interpretations of the movements in the form. However, if you are well trained, some movements in the forms you have practiced may come out naturally in sparring.

[KlausBeckEwerhardy]

Interesting demonstration. Thank you for sharing.

[evilunixuser1]

Did Bruce Lee ever incorporate this into any of his techniques?

[namfujaw]

no. he did not knew this style.

[nanhuazhenren]

how can you be sure,he didn´t know the style?

[namfujaw]

from what i know he did not knew a lot of kung fu.

and he was from hong kong so... there not a lot of xing yi there..

i may be wrong.

[denzuko1]

interesting inch power.

[LokhapalaH]

Xing Yi Quan means Mind Form boxing

[ThowHilton]

what does Xing Yi Quan mean?

[waynehyl]

Xing = Form

Yi = Mind

Xing Yi Quan emphasizes the combination of form and mind.

The Five Element Fist is simple and practical.

[speaknoevil2007]

The problem with a lot of these "sparing" matches is that the attacker is throwing a very unrealistic punch with little or no power. In order to apply in real life they need to practice with power and correct punches.

Put this guy in a UFC octagon and they will make short work of him. No disrespect to him or his art but a martial art should be able to teach it's practitioner's to defend themselves in the real world.

[bradycomputers]

everybody always loves to quote the ufc fighter, but what everyone forgets is 1) they where padded gloves. 2) they cant where shoes to kick the shins 3) they have many rules....

[realdealctbadboy]

you're right. a lot of "sparring" demonstrations are stupid and unrealistic. however, two man drills really teaches you how to drive power with your body and push the opponent back. also you'll never understand the applications of your moves if you don't use them on somebody with hands up in front of him.

on the ufc thing-try sparring with gloves. you practically lose your hands after 3 punches since they're so easy to grab/knock aside. there's a reason ufc fights are all on the ground.

[supaflychi]

"you practically lose your hands after 3 punches since they're so easy to grab/knock aside. there's a reason ufc fights are all on the ground."

THANK YOU, very well said!

[rAFiCoRe]

here's a challenge for ya. meet a xingyi master and try to fight him. just try to.

[christopherfisk]

yes there is a reason, poor striking technique. also if you think this is the speed a hsing yi master would go in a fight you are gravely mistaken. CMA were designed, especially southern styles, specifically for smaller fighters to over come stronger larger opponents.

[RaginRussian]

I still think the movements where you just move your hands around silly and crossing your legs is a terrible idea. it's just that's why they don't use this stuff in real combat training for military or anything like that because it's not devastating enough and not practical. and personally i hate forms. I don't believe you should have a "dance" set up for your techniques. they should be mixed up to better remember them as individual attacks.

p.s. I like debates so bring up a good argument

[deonax]

a big difference between 'real combat training' and traditional martial arts is the intended student. 'real combat training' and military styles are meant to be employed by virtually anyone. traditional arts are for dedicated martial artists that have the discipline to take the time to master the art. a military cqb system will give someone above average martial ability, but traditional arts reach a much higher level. i don't feel like explaining the purpose of forms, so go do research.

[RaginRussian]

a higher level? yeah okay. Fighting is dynamic, wild and alive. i've seen military defense kick some traditional martial art ass. They need to be made for today. nobody fights all perfect and delicate and if they do they get the crap beat outta them. You would know if you've seen a real fight. sorry to tell ya but it's not like the movies. like I've said before I have had my experience with forms. Martial arts should be based on quality not quantity of forms. I think with a jkd philosophy.

[deonax]

traditional arts *are* based on quality forms. every movement learned has multiple martial applications. like you said, nobody fights perfect and delicate. fighters that understand this can apply principles and movements from traditional arts with great effectiveness. those that don't climb into an mma ring claiming to use 'kung fu' and subsequently have their asses handed to them. no system is perfect, but traditional arts are formidable. proof? they exist.

[RaginRussian]

well then they should be adapted. In one of my first comments I stated how some of this could be useful, they just need to train in them in a different way. Instead of having a bunch of moves in a dance like thing just teach them individualy. Many traditional arts have been many contemporary by having the art adapt. It should never just be one set thing or this or that but a art that is constatnyly growing and fitting for today's needs. San shou, sambo, muay thai, boxing just some examples.

[deonax]

raginrussian, you make good points. i know what you're saying about the forms and i hope you understand what i'm saying about the systems. if you truly think with a jkd mindset, you probably do. at first you seemed like the typical basher of anything outside of an octagon, but i don't believe that's the case. it's been fun debating this issue with you, thanks to the fact that you have brought up very good points. peace and much respect to you.

[RaginRussian]

I also thank you for the terrific debate. it's rare to find someone too who can also take the other person's opinion into consideration and respond without just swearing into a huge rage. It's been fun debating with you and i do like your points about traditional. I mean modern all started from it. they are moderns' roots and orgins and its not good to forget where we come from. but it is also good for traditional to continue to grow and adapt to survive with the human race. best of luck deonax.

[DRaelrich]

Their weakness is found in those who rely too heavily on the order of the forms, rather than the key principles they teach; a formulaic fighting style is a death trap for the user. Still, for one who knows what they're trying to achieve, forms can be quite useful. For me, rather than doing one form repeatedly, I simply practice blending different movements, making a different form every time, a method with its own strengths and weaknesses.

[shaolinstudent49]

thats ver cool!

but my master said to me that he would not fear man who knew 1000 kicks but a man who practice a kick a thousand times! (:

[DRaelrich]

Understandable; I am not saying I focus on having a multitude of different moves. My focus of study is on the basic concepts behind the movements: harmony of the whole body, inner calm, combat strategy and application of force. This is not done by acquiring as many techniques as possible, but by learning the intricacies that lie in even the most basic punch, and part of that is seeing how different movements link to each other. If anything, I try to think of all of it together as one technique.

[DRaelrich]

I must take issue with your statement on teaching moves individually; the point you make presents the basic strength and weakness of forms. One of their main proclaimed objectives is not only to teach the moves, but how to use the moves together, to link them together so that they flow. This is not for aesthetics (though when it looks good, it looks good); This coordination allows for greater speed and power going from one move to another.

[RaginRussian]

yes if you can go from one move to the other in the form's exact sequence. But I highly doubt that the offender is goin to attack you just right as to where everything will "flow" out in its order.

[DRaelrich]

Again, clinging too closely to the exact sequence of the form misses the point of the exercise. What you describe is the weakness of forms, or rather, of the people who rely on them alone for combat technique. And a true flow isn't about your attacker coming at you just as expected; it's adaptation to the opponent's moves, something learned in sparring. Which in turn brings up the point that forms aren't supposed to be used as the sole form of training.

[longfingernail]

awesome ^^

[narayanr]

This was suberbly done!

[r3t4y5]

He has been taught well. This looks good.

[Scott200]

For an internal fighting art, it looks pretty hard. Still looks fun though :). Can't wait until I get to learn this.

[dingostorm11]

anyway i'm watching waiting for the punchline, while guy 2 is swinging away, and guy with the superior training is back off getting cornered to a parked car. guy 1 waiting for the perfect moment to deliver the hadukin 12 hit combo. it never came and he got pinned to a parked car in a wrestling move. me and another bystander had to break it up. it's funny how drunk people quickly have a change of heart.

lesion- forms, styles and training are no good unless put into action. thats my 2 cents.

[TsangBokyan]

dingo

true!

[dingostorm11]

you all make good point but miss the most important point of all. the point of any type of training in martial arts is not to get caught up in thinking or figuring out when to do when in a fight, just act and respond. i seen a fight on a street with two guys a while back.

guy 1 had some training- and guy 2 didn't and was a bit drunk. but guy 2 was was bigger with the strength advantage. i still though guy 1 would kick his ass silly because he had the stance(seam like karate) and avoided well.

[RaginRussian]

sorry guys i'm just not into forms or internal martial arts. sure its great for health but they blow in combat. Just comin from personal experiences with others. I'm not trying to bash it but to me it looks a hell of a lot like coreography. But to just to be fair to both sides some of this stuff does look useful. if he was to be put some more power behind it he would be able to hurt someone. If it were taught in moves instead of forms he might have something going for him.

[7vezda]

xingyi is actually a very practical art; every movement is intended to be simultaneously offense and defense. It's hard to truly glean just how deep an art it is just from a video, which is the case for all internal styles because the power of each movement is is not generated by the limbs, but rather using the body as a unified whole

[RaginRussian]

that guy would get messed up in a real fight usin this.

[MaBu888]

Well at least now we know ho much you know of xing y chuan. By the way, I see you do sambo, and from what I've heard, sambo rules as well.

[ninpomasta111]

Nice demonstration of xingyiquan.

[nejatarn]

Any of these technical applications, all of which I am proficient in, if at all applied even to a fraction of their maximum, would mess a dude up. People just don't know. I don't need a perfect application to get what I want. I just need an advantage to build on.... And I will do WHATEVER it takes to get that and follow it through. I don't do xingyiquan in fights, I just do what workds. Xingyiquan training helps me do that very well.

[nejatarn]

wow

Three minutes and 50 seconds, and a whole luscious array of moves all packed into a sweet sweet form. I'll be looking into this guy. His jing and qi are both really good. Very crisp jing, very deep qi.

[piguahand]

nice video!!

[Changxianglong]

This is nice, but it is not Yizong's Xingyi. I know - I was a student of Master Zhang Junfeng and his wife Zhang Xu Baomei. Master Zhang was the founder of the Yizong school in Taipei.

[Soulblackman]

I HATE it when in demonstrations, the student throws these lame punches that would NEVER be thrown in the street.

[shengchenfan]

I can understand where you are coming from,However they are not trying to beat the slop out of each other either but only trying to give an example of their demo.I'm sure that they know that fighting is unpredictable and adapting.

[Soulblackman]

I understand, but how about the 'attacker', throwing some REAL jabs or rights? Of course we cannot expect NHB, but the answer has to lie between what I would prefer and what these "masters" show in their demos.

[shengchenfan]

for his students,the way they throw their punches is like they don't want to hit their teacher or a lack of real fights growing up.

[nejatarn]

"No man, I'd kick their butt in a real fight"... *insert self-masturbatory icon here*

Just a teenager you're talking to. If they don't know this, leave them to their ignorance. They won't last long in a real dojo or kwoon without being taught a lesson, nor a few seconds in a fight with a real martial artist.

[grandkailong]

Most people think that the set seen practiced is how that person is actually going to fight. Won't they be in for a surprise when the moves get mixed up! Most don't realize that it's like watching boxing's 1-2 punch. It's not one move, it's two. And it's deep, for a two hit combo. Just like these aren't one, two, three moves, they're over 30, at least. And their usage is all deep. Especially when this is one the oldest internal style in China.

[nejatarn]

Indeed. They also underestimate the significance of the addage that buckets of sweet poured in training yield proportionately less of one's own spilled blood in combat, and more of one's opponent. It's just retarded to forget that to train well in any style is what counts, not to say "me style good, you style bad".

[grandkailong]

Well, I don't know about the whole style thing. There are 3 factors to winning, and they are (physical) ability, skill, and knowledge (style). Certain styles are more variable than others. Simply put, if 2 fighters with the same ability and skill fought, the one that knew more ways out of a situation would win. So style still counts, but the most common factor is ability, while style is the least common, since it's rare or impossible to have the same ability and skill.

[nejatarn]

The conditions specific to the fight also matter profoundly. Time of day, your health, your other circumstances. Just too many variables. If it is a serious fight, I'll pick something up too. So my opponent must factor in my willingness to throw things and swing things. :D Overall, your analysis factors into these categories : Genetics, Physical Conditioning, Psychological Conditioning (including knowledge and focus and yi etc). Spiritual and moral conditions should be added.

[grandkailong]

You're exactly right. I was generalizing those factors, and ignoring the environmental factors, but thats what it's like. Frankly, I'd say never fight unless you surely have the environment in your favor (outnumbering the enemy, you're armed and they aren't, etc) but it's all percentages, never a sure thing. Xingyiquan and other internal styles help a lot because you learn how to fight more efficiently.

[nejatarn]

Yes, I agree. The focus on the combat effectiveness of a martial art is in what sort of efficiency one may get out of it, or else what sort of tactical ideas one may obtain, preferably one strong on techniques that work and principles that have varied and effective application. Internal styles are reknowned for this aspect of development. But yes, we don't "fight using a style". That can't make sense considering all these other aspects of battle! I agree with your assessment.

[punadoman]

#1 act/ARE YOU A GARDENER? i like your garden of flowers,i saw a fruit-like inner power from you.

#2 act/you guys are good! dummy opponent one day you gonna be an actor... I saw (alamid)one of the Filipino master, you cannot do that in actual fighting, his stunning rapid strikes are very fast combatant approach, why you guys wasting time...

[cfG21]

if someone counters or manages to block(force againts force) then the attackers' speed will change...any good martial artist and even a filipino one will tell you that there is a way around rapid strikes.

[falserockwell]

what do you mean by even a Filipino one?

[cfG21]

the man is implying that his system is too fast to defend. when i looked at his vids it was just some newly formed filipino martial art that claimed to fast and tough to defend against. you can't expect to literally just throw punches as fast as possible. There are too many variables and many different ways to break the rythm of those stikes (i.e. just move). Every novice martial artist knows that regardles of style or nationality knows that.

[Kungfupau]

forms are too hard, weights not on back-leg, when he was doing pao-chui, he did not fold in his 'kua'. Definitely not the same hsing-yi as what I am practising...

[XuZhangWang]

You know, some Xing Yi schools emphasize fa jing more than others, and different weight distributions, doesn't mean it's bad.

[HaywoodJewblomi]

Indeedy. There's at least 3 major styles of Xing Yi and they each emphasise different elements of the style and do things in different ways. It was a good video. :)

[standardride]

hen hao, wo ye xiang zhege

[opticannon]

what family of hsing yi do you represent. i wonder if there are different factions as there are in the ving tsun system. please do tell as i want to train in the correct manner.

[boriquastyle]

One of the few practioners that I've seen whom demonstrates advanced "root breaking" techniques on his opponent, without exageration!!! Excellent...

[nokwondodo]

seen and trained with a lot of masters of xingyi but untill you feel the pre heaven power behind this master attack, don't let your eyes fool you,what makes the the xingyi is the power it contains..

[kempobrad]

having the heel up also alows you to absorb shock, while remaining mobile.

[twbbw1977]

aesthetically beautiful as well as informative; thanks for posting this

[shengchenfan]

Awesome!

[lbmcr]

can you buy these dvd's from somewhere???

[roosterma]

Up to now, the 4 videos on YouTube are the only video publications of Master Lin.

[lbmcr]

thanx.. he's talented man..

[andymach33]

one can root from the ball of the foot or the heel. through either or both feet.

[HomedudePedroski]

I take Karate, I would like to practice these three Chinese Neija martial arts: Taijiquan, Baguazhang, and this one, Xingyiquan.

[Kamashinara]

I practice two out of three of those martial arts and my Sifu actually trains under Wei Chung-lin(man in the video) currently. Believe me these are definitely worth taking.

[HomedudePedroski]

yeah.

[danya834]

applications and form are both very interesting and it is awesome how the movements of the form can be used in a real fight.

[WarriorBoy]

One more thing about this vid, I really liked how when the demo parteners did attack, they most of the time attacked more than once, which is far moer realistic than most demos.

[WarriorBoy]

Basic means you'll remember them when you're in an actual confrontation.

[blacktaoist]

appications are basic , but not bad.

[Ed9876]

I may be missing something... why is his back heel up when doing some of the elements? Why is he scraping the ground with the rear foot? why is he off balance in the apps?

[roosterma]

1. In some cases, to fast executing the next movement, there is no need to wait until the back heel settles down. 2. It is the so called "plowing jin" which enhances the power of the movement. 3. I see no movement off balance in applications.

[YuJinLong]

Your not missing anything...his back foot is not rooted.

[roosterma]

To YuJinLong:

Under your definition, most of the movements of Henan Xinyi (with the back heel off the ground) are not rooted. The fact is "rooting" has more to do with the ball of the foot than the whole foot.

[YuJinLong]

Incorrect.

[Aetherus7]

YuJinLong, is Sun Lu Tang also incorrect then? Usually rooting is through the "bubbling well" area or sometimes the heel depending on the posture. But there are many one legged applications in Hsing Yi, so the ball of the foot would be irrelevant in those moves. If I am wrong, please explain.

[stpetekungfu]

its funny how i see so many people critizing, like they know everything. Because his heel is up he's not rooted and doing it wrong?

[cfG21]

more like discussing differences