we all know energy was the start of things. some would sya God put it there and others would say it always existed and we just dont understand it yet. it is clear that there is a God b/c even if the 2nd group of ppl r correct that still doesnt explain how the basic scientific laws and properties were put into place. im not saying MY God put them there. im not saying God is an all loving or all powerful being who sent jesus down to earth. im saying there IS a God beyond our understanding
very logical. sometimes we can get tied up in logic. Is religion God? Maybe God is not an argument or a particular integrated system of a expression of belief or a concept or a syllogism. Let's say God is a living being. If so, God doesn't have to be proved. God can show him(her)self. Maybe you need to suspend your disbelief, open yourself up, honestly and truly, and ask God: "God, please show me that you exist."
All major religions have the Golden Rule in one way or the other so their basic core is teaching people to be good.
Now they may go about it differently, because of cultural and language differences but they also may be speaking on different levels of truth.
Let's take politics. Democrats want to help the poor and extend benefits but make everybody else pay a bit more in taxes. Republicans want people to help themselfs by lowering taxes.
Would you therefore say, in other words, that discovering the truth or logical possibility of what religions are claiming is unnecessary because it matters more that they are all trying to do good things?
Well I can see that the major religions are striving for the good therefore I'm not inclined to make them wrong.
I'm not saying it's a waste of time to discover truth in verious religions. What I'm saying is that it's a waste of time to go into a make-wrong of religions. Besides, if you'll do that you'll gain too many haters, anyway.
However, if the Jihadists and what not are gonna use religion to kill or slander people, that I disaprove and think it's a probelm.
Here's the thing, though. If you don't object to discovering the truth about religion, you can't have a problem with the possibility of disproving them.
I'd say that you're right, blowing people up in the name of your religion is a good sign that something's up. But are you only prepared to discredit something after the religion has gone that extreme? Or when its bad enough in your mind? What about affects on society and scientific understanding?
The Christian right has been the single most resistant force to progress and advancement in all of American history.
I believe you mean evolution vs. creation and the gay marriage issue.
You know I once heard a better argument and it went something like this:
Evolution and Creation are one and the same thing. Every moment is a Creation by God. And Evolution is how Creation unfolds itself, perceptually, over time.
With the Christian right, at least they're not chopping people's heads off. That's in sharp contract to some muslim countries, where they do - or just the hands.
And slavery, and womens rights, and racial equality, and stem cell research, and the right to choose, and the sanctity of a secular government, and general civil liberties, and sex education (the war against unprotected sex), etc.
I mean many things. And even if there is a worse form of religion out there...does that make this establishment okay in comparison?
You can't equate the past with the present. Slavery, lack of women rights and all that was the culture at the time. Besides, 'Amazing Grace' was written by a Christian man, a former slave trader who couldn't do it anymore and encouraged his friend Wilberforce to abolish slavery in Britian.
You know very well that it's impossible to have theocracy in America because of the 1st amendment.
It's tough to say when life begins.. so I won't go into that.
The struggle for human rights is always a struggle against the culture of the time. But time after time, from what I've learned, its the christian right which most strongly opposes the change. That's why they're called "conservatives."
Oh, a song was written by a christian, okay. I'm not sure I follow how that really has any meaningful contribution to your argument.
"it's impossible to have theocracy in America" and yet the christian right still tries.
This video wasn't about making people wrong. It's actually proposing a method by which they can be right. All they need is TES.
Its the religions fault, not mine, that they can't hold up to scrutiny. I choose truth, reason, and logic before a blind acceptance of things which are socially accepted. All organizations strive for good. But what's good to some isn't actually good for all.
Well, to be sure Jesus didn't say nothing about gay marriage. I think when this gay marriage slugs it out in courts and votes and maybe starts winning the support of Christians that will be one of the reasons.
The video didn't sound to me like a method "by which all religions can be right"
That's because you're saying that if this theological entity is true this one must be false. But maybe that's not the case. Maybe it's like different languages, for example. Different name, same meaning.
They don't just have different names. The core concepts which make them identifiable as individual religions sever them severely from the others. Many religions specifically address those who follow other religions and fundamentally reject them. The Abrahamic religions are famous for this.
Once you study the religions it becomes pretty clear that this whole "dif name, same game" business is just naiive idealist thinking.
It's true what you're saying, however I didn't hear Jesus condeming Buddhism. Or Buddha condeming Krishna.
As a religion it was an addon, through time to say "This religion is the only way" but you can find no such thing in the 'founders' of those religions.
Jesus said "I am the only way." But he was talking as God incarnate, an Avatar, not an ego-mind personality, which he was not.
So if "The Kingdom of God is within you" then other people (Buddha, Krishna) can get to that state too.
The first two commandments are devoted to distinguishing this God from all others. If all Gods are the same, then wasn't he just wasting his time with those two? They seem pretty important being numero uno and dos. did you watch this video? I'm starting to wonder.
Weather one calls It God, The Creator, The Almighty, The Ruler of the Universe, Source of Life and Existance, Allah, Maker of All things Visable and Invisable, Omnipotent Omniscient and Omnipresent, Shiva, Krishna, Rama, Brahma .. it's all the same. It's all trying to desribe the same thing.. That Everything that holds everything together.
So if "The Kingdom of God is within you" then we are a part of God already, just not aware of it.
Heliocentrism and geocentrism both try to describe the same thing. Maybe they're both right. They both try to explain the heavens and their pattern of movement.
The earth could be both flat and round, right? And maybe sickness is caused by both bacteria and evil demons?
Just because two things try to describe the same phenomenon doesn't mean they are the same thing.
Islam isn't the only one misused, I'm sure you realize. I'd be surprised if there was a single major religion in human history in whose name bloodshed didn't result.
Seeing as how you're so interested in judging based on fruits, I suggest you extend your reasoning to more than Islam. Its kind of an easy target in our modern situation.
And I'm aware that Jesus claims to be one and the same as the God of the OT. I'm aware that Christians have pursecuted millions all around the world in their conquest to "save souls." I'm aware of battles and wars waged in Christs name, even more than in Yahweh's.
I'm sensing some skipping around the issue when it comes to christianity
Where does Jesus say he is the God from the OT? Quote, please.
I'm very aware of the Crusades and Inquasitions.. too bad Christians, at that time, forgot to be 'Christ Like' and do what Jesus would do, which the Crusades are definitely not.
However, the fact that they had some skewed version of God, doesn't mean there isn't a real one.
Upon more detailed reading there actually seems to be no direct claim that Jesus was God. He just said only to worship God, but then accepted worship, and didn't object to receiving worship. This led, in part, to the idea of the trinity.
I understand the difference between you and the old Christians. Just like I understand the difference between most Muslims and the few extremists. My point is unchanged by this, however. I'm trying to stop this unfair separation between your faith and others
And anyways, who's throwing the baby out with the bathwater again?
Reference to Islam:
"I think the bad ones have to be discredited, because they are destructive. Like Jesus said "By their fruits you shall know them." So, if you blow up your fellow citizen that fruit is rotten.. and evil. "
I think a Muslim would defend themselves the exact same way as you did. The "no true scottsman" argument.
I was not making the argument of "All Muslims are bad." Infact, I know muslims in real life and they're good folks.
"By their fruits you shall know them" indeed. If one looks at the Jihadist movements it's a preversion of Koran. Of Allah, The all-Merciful, as he is desribed in Koran.
Just like the Crusades with Christians, you've got this Jihadists movement in Islam.
And with it's very violent nature (kamikazi style) combined with technology (bombs) it all amplifies that negativity.
So, if the result is hatred and innocent people dying, it's false and not according to the teachings anyway as we've seen with Crusaders and now with Jihadists.
There's nothing wrong with conservatives. To stand for "marriage is defined as between one man and a woman" is hardly evil. Sure it might offend the small precentege of gay people, but so what? Standing for what they believe to be marriage is fair.
The Christian right can't change the 1st amandment..
"The Christian right can't change the 1st amendment"....but they still try. But honestly lets drop the specifics. This isn't about any one religion. Whether you get it or not, the video logically lays out a plan by which a religion can be reasonably believed. However, no religion I've heard of satisfies this, thats why it seems like its intention is to disprove all religions.
I see no problem with proposing these sorts of ideas because it tries to clear up truth and reasonability.
And I'm saying faith doesn't cut it because unlike every other aspect of functioning in our world (which God designed) faith specifically allows for belief out of nowhere. And belief out of nowhere means you can believe in whatever you want. And believing in whatever you want is meaningless.
Also you're saying that some special people get to experience the truth, but the rest of us have to fight against our innate sense of "god given" reason in order to save ourselves...hmmm...
The problem is that if creation unfolds over time. And there is evolution. There will constantly be change. Change in our morals. You can see that in all religions today. The problem, is that ink does not change. Therefore whatever the beliefs are in the past we still feel that they should be the beliefs of today. Which is far from the truth. Morals change and therefore we must change in order to preserve the world we live in.
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY ENTER through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and ONLY A FEW find it."
I really, really like this video. I think TES has been long sought after, but we've never had the rules defined properly. For this, we thank you!
I really hope this will take off and plan to spread it as much as possible, it's so concise I can't wait to see some what refutations come. And like notNECESSARILYgod points out, we're all for hearing some good ones - nothing would please me greater than being *proved* wrong.
Right on. I hope this does take off. What atheists need is to construct a blueprint by which reasonable belief can arise. If the requirements are not met, then the individual remains without belief.
This video is sort of my first steps to create such a blueprint. I've developed a proof which utilizes TES as the one and only key to avoid a contradiction. Without TES, the proof is logical, and therefore belief in a religion becomes unreasonable.
Hey again.. I'm surprised this video doesn't have more views.
xleax 1 year ago
Great video. this deserves a lot more attention than it has gotten.
Nails077 1 year ago
It's simple:
There r no valid proofs that sth we all refer t as God exists & that's sth we all agree t.
Now:
There's no reason t try & prove that sth exists when ur place t begin with is that someone said it does & it has these & those features.
I can give u a ton of "beings" 4 u t try & prove they don't exist & still u won't make it. Is there a point t that?
Does th addition of some "leads" t their existence make my word more valid?
Now add to that a sentimental touch & voila! All religions.
alexdeltaceline 2 years ago
@alexdeltaceline very 1337 point !
samuraisokolata 2 years ago
Very Good video. Very logical.
I know of no TES
Ebal the Atheist
ebaltrace 2 years ago
A valid and worthwhile addition to the atheist side. I'll help this spread. Good job.
infinityjrh 2 years ago
Beliefs do not matter. Morality does.
How you live is far more important than what you believe.
AtheistdotEDU 2 years ago 7
mike is a nazi.
Jeremybug2 2 years ago
Flawless logic
TheAnalyst7546 2 years ago
we all know energy was the start of things. some would sya God put it there and others would say it always existed and we just dont understand it yet. it is clear that there is a God b/c even if the 2nd group of ppl r correct that still doesnt explain how the basic scientific laws and properties were put into place. im not saying MY God put them there. im not saying God is an all loving or all powerful being who sent jesus down to earth. im saying there IS a God beyond our understanding
renomahe34 2 years ago
who put god there then?
bbyyaahh 2 years ago
jump outside the universe and find out for me hahahaha
renomahe34 2 years ago
That's the weakest of all atheist points, go look it up.
LamboK28992 2 years ago
Comment removed
cairo5245 3 years ago
very logical. sometimes we can get tied up in logic. Is religion God? Maybe God is not an argument or a particular integrated system of a expression of belief or a concept or a syllogism. Let's say God is a living being. If so, God doesn't have to be proved. God can show him(her)self. Maybe you need to suspend your disbelief, open yourself up, honestly and truly, and ask God: "God, please show me that you exist."
MePaulTube 3 years ago
All major religions have the Golden Rule in one way or the other so their basic core is teaching people to be good.
Now they may go about it differently, because of cultural and language differences but they also may be speaking on different levels of truth.
Let's take politics. Democrats want to help the poor and extend benefits but make everybody else pay a bit more in taxes. Republicans want people to help themselfs by lowering taxes.
They're both striving for good in thier own way.
xleax 3 years ago
Perhaps, but what is your point in light of this video?
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
That it's not necessary to make people wrong, theologically speaking, because they all strive for the good.
Gandhi said it best: The essence of all religions is one. Only their approaches are different.
xleax 3 years ago
Would you therefore say, in other words, that discovering the truth or logical possibility of what religions are claiming is unnecessary because it matters more that they are all trying to do good things?
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
Well I can see that the major religions are striving for the good therefore I'm not inclined to make them wrong.
I'm not saying it's a waste of time to discover truth in verious religions. What I'm saying is that it's a waste of time to go into a make-wrong of religions. Besides, if you'll do that you'll gain too many haters, anyway.
However, if the Jihadists and what not are gonna use religion to kill or slander people, that I disaprove and think it's a probelm.
xleax 3 years ago
Here's the thing, though. If you don't object to discovering the truth about religion, you can't have a problem with the possibility of disproving them.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
I think the bad ones have to be discredited, because they are destructive. Like Jesus said "By their fruits you shall know them."
So, if you blow up your fellow citizen that fruit is rotten.. and evil.
xleax 3 years ago
I'd say that you're right, blowing people up in the name of your religion is a good sign that something's up. But are you only prepared to discredit something after the religion has gone that extreme? Or when its bad enough in your mind? What about affects on society and scientific understanding?
The Christian right has been the single most resistant force to progress and advancement in all of American history.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
I believe you mean evolution vs. creation and the gay marriage issue.
You know I once heard a better argument and it went something like this:
Evolution and Creation are one and the same thing. Every moment is a Creation by God. And Evolution is how Creation unfolds itself, perceptually, over time.
With the Christian right, at least they're not chopping people's heads off. That's in sharp contract to some muslim countries, where they do - or just the hands.
xleax 3 years ago
And slavery, and womens rights, and racial equality, and stem cell research, and the right to choose, and the sanctity of a secular government, and general civil liberties, and sex education (the war against unprotected sex), etc.
I mean many things. And even if there is a worse form of religion out there...does that make this establishment okay in comparison?
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
You can't equate the past with the present. Slavery, lack of women rights and all that was the culture at the time. Besides, 'Amazing Grace' was written by a Christian man, a former slave trader who couldn't do it anymore and encouraged his friend Wilberforce to abolish slavery in Britian.
You know very well that it's impossible to have theocracy in America because of the 1st amendment.
It's tough to say when life begins.. so I won't go into that.
xleax 3 years ago
The struggle for human rights is always a struggle against the culture of the time. But time after time, from what I've learned, its the christian right which most strongly opposes the change. That's why they're called "conservatives."
Oh, a song was written by a christian, okay. I'm not sure I follow how that really has any meaningful contribution to your argument.
"it's impossible to have theocracy in America" and yet the christian right still tries.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
To return to our main discussion, however:
This video wasn't about making people wrong. It's actually proposing a method by which they can be right. All they need is TES.
Its the religions fault, not mine, that they can't hold up to scrutiny. I choose truth, reason, and logic before a blind acceptance of things which are socially accepted. All organizations strive for good. But what's good to some isn't actually good for all.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
Well, to be sure Jesus didn't say nothing about gay marriage. I think when this gay marriage slugs it out in courts and votes and maybe starts winning the support of Christians that will be one of the reasons.
The video didn't sound to me like a method "by which all religions can be right"
That's because you're saying that if this theological entity is true this one must be false. But maybe that's not the case. Maybe it's like different languages, for example. Different name, same meaning.
xleax 3 years ago
They don't just have different names. The core concepts which make them identifiable as individual religions sever them severely from the others. Many religions specifically address those who follow other religions and fundamentally reject them. The Abrahamic religions are famous for this.
Once you study the religions it becomes pretty clear that this whole "dif name, same game" business is just naiive idealist thinking.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
It's true what you're saying, however I didn't hear Jesus condeming Buddhism. Or Buddha condeming Krishna.
As a religion it was an addon, through time to say "This religion is the only way" but you can find no such thing in the 'founders' of those religions.
Jesus said "I am the only way." But he was talking as God incarnate, an Avatar, not an ego-mind personality, which he was not.
So if "The Kingdom of God is within you" then other people (Buddha, Krishna) can get to that state too.
xleax 3 years ago
The first two commandments are devoted to distinguishing this God from all others. If all Gods are the same, then wasn't he just wasting his time with those two? They seem pretty important being numero uno and dos. did you watch this video? I'm starting to wonder.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
Like I said before, it could be a 'different name, same meaning' kinda thing going on.
xleax 3 years ago
Like i said before, there's more to reconcile than a different name.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
Weather one calls It God, The Creator, The Almighty, The Ruler of the Universe, Source of Life and Existance, Allah, Maker of All things Visable and Invisable, Omnipotent Omniscient and Omnipresent, Shiva, Krishna, Rama, Brahma .. it's all the same. It's all trying to desribe the same thing.. That Everything that holds everything together.
So if "The Kingdom of God is within you" then we are a part of God already, just not aware of it.
xleax 3 years ago
Heliocentrism and geocentrism both try to describe the same thing. Maybe they're both right. They both try to explain the heavens and their pattern of movement.
The earth could be both flat and round, right? And maybe sickness is caused by both bacteria and evil demons?
Just because two things try to describe the same phenomenon doesn't mean they are the same thing.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
True - some people use Allah for Holy-War purposes.
In the name of Allah, the all-Merciful, they blow themselfs up and take innocent lives with them..
xleax 3 years ago
Islam isn't the only one misused, I'm sure you realize. I'd be surprised if there was a single major religion in human history in whose name bloodshed didn't result.
Seeing as how you're so interested in judging based on fruits, I suggest you extend your reasoning to more than Islam. Its kind of an easy target in our modern situation.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
I'm well aware of the vengeful God from the Old Testament which is nothing at all like the God Jesus is talking about.
xleax 3 years ago
And I'm aware that Jesus claims to be one and the same as the God of the OT. I'm aware that Christians have pursecuted millions all around the world in their conquest to "save souls." I'm aware of battles and wars waged in Christs name, even more than in Yahweh's.
I'm sensing some skipping around the issue when it comes to christianity
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
Where does Jesus say he is the God from the OT? Quote, please.
I'm very aware of the Crusades and Inquasitions.. too bad Christians, at that time, forgot to be 'Christ Like' and do what Jesus would do, which the Crusades are definitely not.
However, the fact that they had some skewed version of God, doesn't mean there isn't a real one.
Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
xleax 3 years ago
Upon more detailed reading there actually seems to be no direct claim that Jesus was God. He just said only to worship God, but then accepted worship, and didn't object to receiving worship. This led, in part, to the idea of the trinity.
I understand the difference between you and the old Christians. Just like I understand the difference between most Muslims and the few extremists. My point is unchanged by this, however. I'm trying to stop this unfair separation between your faith and others
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
And anyways, who's throwing the baby out with the bathwater again?
Reference to Islam:
"I think the bad ones have to be discredited, because they are destructive. Like Jesus said "By their fruits you shall know them." So, if you blow up your fellow citizen that fruit is rotten.. and evil. "
I think a Muslim would defend themselves the exact same way as you did. The "no true scottsman" argument.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
I was not making the argument of "All Muslims are bad." Infact, I know muslims in real life and they're good folks.
"By their fruits you shall know them" indeed. If one looks at the Jihadist movements it's a preversion of Koran. Of Allah, The all-Merciful, as he is desribed in Koran.
Just like the Crusades with Christians, you've got this Jihadists movement in Islam.
And with it's very violent nature (kamikazi style) combined with technology (bombs) it all amplifies that negativity.
xleax 3 years ago
Then what is your point?
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
That "by their fruits you shall know them" :)
So, if the result is hatred and innocent people dying, it's false and not according to the teachings anyway as we've seen with Crusaders and now with Jihadists.
Point is, the essence of major religions is good.
xleax 3 years ago
There's nothing wrong with conservatives. To stand for "marriage is defined as between one man and a woman" is hardly evil. Sure it might offend the small precentege of gay people, but so what? Standing for what they believe to be marriage is fair.
The Christian right can't change the 1st amandment..
xleax 3 years ago
"The Christian right can't change the 1st amendment"....but they still try. But honestly lets drop the specifics. This isn't about any one religion. Whether you get it or not, the video logically lays out a plan by which a religion can be reasonably believed. However, no religion I've heard of satisfies this, thats why it seems like its intention is to disprove all religions.
I see no problem with proposing these sorts of ideas because it tries to clear up truth and reasonability.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
You deal with it as a logical problem, like believing in spaghetti monster.
But it's the big unknowable, isn't it? That's why people have faith.
Believing in something higher than your own personal ego is usually beneficial.
Some saints had all kinds of experiences happen to them - they have to prove 3 miracles to declare them saints anyway
Stigmata is another thing that happens once in a while.. and don't forget near-death experiences..
Most people didn't have that - so, faith.
xleax 3 years ago
And I'm saying faith doesn't cut it because unlike every other aspect of functioning in our world (which God designed) faith specifically allows for belief out of nowhere. And belief out of nowhere means you can believe in whatever you want. And believing in whatever you want is meaningless.
Also you're saying that some special people get to experience the truth, but the rest of us have to fight against our innate sense of "god given" reason in order to save ourselves...hmmm...
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
They're not special people - saints got there by being good loving people and, yes, by faith in God.
xleax 3 years ago
The problem is that if creation unfolds over time. And there is evolution. There will constantly be change. Change in our morals. You can see that in all religions today. The problem, is that ink does not change. Therefore whatever the beliefs are in the past we still feel that they should be the beliefs of today. Which is far from the truth. Morals change and therefore we must change in order to preserve the world we live in.
Nemisis906 2 years ago
the flying spaghetti monster!!!
stevenodd 3 years ago
Outstanding video!
TrenchantAtheist 3 years ago
whoa! sweet vid
Petethegreat36 3 years ago
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY ENTER through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and ONLY A FEW find it."
Matthew 7:13-14
bornagain001 3 years ago
Thank you for your quote.
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
The Quran and (especially) the Torah profess the same ideals - did you watch the video?
whokilledzekeiddon 3 years ago
Which video? or were you responding to bornagain001?
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
I really, really like this video. I think TES has been long sought after, but we've never had the rules defined properly. For this, we thank you!
I really hope this will take off and plan to spread it as much as possible, it's so concise I can't wait to see some what refutations come. And like notNECESSARILYgod points out, we're all for hearing some good ones - nothing would please me greater than being *proved* wrong.
whokilledzekeiddon 3 years ago
Right on. I hope this does take off. What atheists need is to construct a blueprint by which reasonable belief can arise. If the requirements are not met, then the individual remains without belief.
This video is sort of my first steps to create such a blueprint. I've developed a proof which utilizes TES as the one and only key to avoid a contradiction. Without TES, the proof is logical, and therefore belief in a religion becomes unreasonable.
Would you be interested in reading it?
notNECESSARILYgod 3 years ago
I would.
Celticking36 3 years ago
Excellent! 5*
hal2017 3 years ago
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder." 'Homer Simpson'
THADI0US 3 years ago
Great quote!
whokilledzekeiddon 3 years ago
^5 awesome video
BethRN74 3 years ago
Cute!
julzabro 3 years ago
☆☆☆☆☆
sy1234 3 years ago