Rain-Elves Kick Your Proof--Re: Evidence inside

[fredjeanmi]

i guess discussing with you makes you feel that you exist thu....:) doesnt it....:)

[greycloud24]

i checked his video. i think he believes in god in an abstract sense. he gave the example of a bad creature that lives on his shoulder and claimed it exists in the same way god exists. what i think he means is that the IDEA of god is a form of existance of god. and that the idea of the elves would give existance to them in some manner. he would probably argue that your rain elves do indeed exist.

[MystryBox]

Yeah I sorta gave up discussing with him. Nothing was making any sense.

[greycloud24]

i think he is defining "exists" in a very strict sense. any idea that is thought of exists to a certain degree. by this reasoning anything that can be spoken obviously exists as it is so strong of an idea that it is given a name through verbal conotation. what he does not argue is for the existance of god in a fashion that would be expected from most christians.

basically he is an atheist in denial who claims faith by technicality.

[jryitoo]

you should write a book or article about this, i'd buy it

[vectoranime123]

how is posible you are making this kind of stupid videos when in those sucess when jesus was in earth thousands and thousands was seeing miracles from jesus jews people was seeing thoses miracles but the thing is that they don't believe that jesus is the son of god but the were seing everything no 1 no 2 thousands and thousands that's history and history means true evidences about bible is all around . so open your mind and stop being a shame of the ignorance with your own words

[joshmaher16]

if thousands and thousands were seeing the miracles of jesus then why aren't there thousands and thousands of records of jesus? instead we have about 100 ambiguous records at best, all anonymous, so finely selected by the roman catholic church that only 4 of those gospels make it into your holy book. there is no record of jesus christ from external sources.

[MystryBox]

Wow, a comment on this video, thanks :)

[ooglebydoogleby]

in order to discuss gods existence we have to supose gods existence and if your presuposition is that god exists then your arguing about a supositon wich is your presuposition. this is deeply irational.

[schmiggen]

What irritates me about how people take the argument you make in this video is that (like you said in another video, heh) it seems the only reason they can't follow it is lack of self-honesty.

It's really just the flying-spaghetti-monster argument, right? People hear that kind of thing and say "why, that's absurd!" and somehow connect the absurdity to the argument itself, rather than the spaghetti monster.

[MystryBox]

I think one of the most difficult things to do is to be honest with yourself. People don't want to admit that based on what we all trivially observe, when you die it's game over. There are too many other possibilities to believe that are more comforting even if they don't have much evidence.

[xirishmagicx]

Well although I believe similar to you regarding god and has very good points, but I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, Einstein mentioned that everything is made of energy and energy couldn't be destroyed. So where does it go? You know what I'm saying?

[AsianBorat]

Wel...it goes into the ground...and we grow up to become a beautiful tree! [lol, Dane Cook style]

[babolimp]

i found it grouling to watch his video and ended up not watching the whole thing. i'm glad for your summary and to the point response. another convincing refute :)

[ablheza]

Hey! The summary is all wrong! :) That was subject of a reply video "Evidence Inside II", and MystryBox kindly accepted that. What he refutes here is not what the original video proposed.

[emyllsomar]

Great response... "We all wish for blind people to see, unfortunately they can't."

[ablheza]

Sure?

[dinnj]

If you look at what I have done just there, seen another's response without paying attention, which means I can't be objective to the layout or information, I have imitated it, with religious claims all over the place, would it really be so hard to fall into the same trap? A nice example by me if I do say so myself

[dinnj]

And now I have seen an almost identical response to mine, and retire to the fact I look incrdibly stupid. I must have scanned it scrolling to the bottom, and the layout/info must have gotten into my subconcious, sounds like a Derren Brown trick. xP

[AsianBorat]

lol, Derren Brown is awesome.

[omegafromalpha]

i'd also wager that you're an atheist... or maybe agnostic ?

[omegafromalpha]

ok.

1. the Judeo/Christian faith is the longest surviving and most popular faith in the world.

2. Fulfilled prophecy of things that are far too profound to be mere coincidence.

3. there is more proof that Jesus Christ was the messiah promised in the Old testament than there is that Julius caesar even existed.

3. The Bible is the most unique book, that has been put together over the course of thousands of years by the msot diverse group of authors and it all intertwines

[MystryBox]

1. Irrelevant. Truth isn't decided by popularity.

2. I'm not impressed by Christianity's supposed "fulfilled prophecies" anymore than you are of those of other religions.

3. Um, no.  There are many different sources proving caesar existed (including the bible). Jesus doesn't seem to exist in any other original sources outside the bible. And Jews disagree he is the OT messiah and it's their book.

4. Books can be unique and still be false.

[tonynovelist]

quick question. what do think of "the bible code"?

[MystryBox]

The bible code has been completely refuted. The author of the bible code book made a comment about critics should try to find similar codes about assassinations in Moby Dick. So critics did find such codes in Moby Dick, proving you can find anything you look for using such a broad search criteria as the bible codes. Google "bible code moby dick" for details.

[dinnj]

1. Common mass belief systems that are still seen today.

2.This has been debunked

3.The Old Testament is not necessarily true, it is not a given.

4. This can be covered in the first point.

[omegafromalpha]

"you have to prove that the effect comes from God"

ok find someone else who can create life and matter from nothingness and then we can debate it.

[MystryBox]

I'm not claiming anyone who can create life and matter from nothing. You are. So you first, then we can debate it.

[fostever]

Who claims elves exist? Myths are dispelled in time. God's existence and form has been debated throughout time itself, but has yet to be dispelled. Elves have been dispelled as myth long ago, there's no argument, Mr. intellectual.

[MystryBox]

And how were elves "dispelled as myth?" However that was done, god can be dispelled the same way.

To save you the trouble, the fact is elves have never been dispelled as myth (it's impossible to disprove them just as it's impossible to disprove gods). But nobody believes in them anymore. Just like nobody believes in Zeus and thousands of gods of the past... and nobody will believe in today's gods later in the future. That's how it is with things that have no evidence of their existence.

[N0naden]

alrigt...you still didnt answer my question about joy...hope...and love...and a persons spirit or soul. evolution may desrcribe why we look the way we do...but thats just basic genetics...

[MystryBox]

I did answer your question. What we recognize as joy, hope, love, etc are emotional states that helped our ancestors survive one way or another. Evolution doesn't just explain how we look, it explains why and how we are how we are.

[N0naden]

ok and the organisms and monkeys and all the other things that we evolved from....why dont animals have these emotional states? If we evolved from primates and apes why havent we seen one in the middle of the stage of evolution? how come there are no half man half monkeys

[MystryBox]

Who says animals don't have emotional states? And there are plenty of middle stage primates. Haven't you ever been to a museum of natural history? Go to wikipedia and type in "human evolution" for a start.

[N0naden]

its weird becuase every time i told you to look something up you said it doesnt intrest me...i dont want to read it... every thing i told you was about my side of the argument...and now your telling me to read some of your things...its funny how you work...i would like to know your profession...what do you do for a living besides youtube sitting on here and feeding the world crap?

[MystryBox]

I don't care if you read what I suggested. You stated an error, I corrected you and gave you a resource to start at if you want. I'm quite sure you won't read it (and wouldn't accept it if you did). I know this because I know you don't base your decisions on facts and evidence but on faith.

[MystryBox]

Apparently my profession is to annoy you :)

[N0naden]

once again maybe if you knew what happend...ok lets say you mystery box create kid only you computerized him to say i love you everyday...then you have a kid with a woman and out of the kids own free will says i love you every day...which one would you like more...thats why god gave us all free will...becuase we have a choice its not gods falt that lucifer rebelled against god...once again you know nothing about the christian teachings...you must know what your talking about...

[MystryBox]

The point is if I made something and was all knowing I would know exactly what it would do (or else I wasn't all knowing). Also if what I made went off and did something "evil", I would have to accept primary responsibility for that as I was the ultimate source.

[N0naden]

yes that is true..god did know what lucifer was going to do...but if you read the new testament it tells you about the new order...the new heaven and earth...it all works out...perfect...fall....redemt­ian...and then perfect again....maybe you should read the new testament...i dont think you know to much about what the bible is telling you....there are alot of christians who dont really understand what its all about.

[N0naden]

ya see and with god and jesus...i know why i think the things that i do and i know why i think the way that i do..without a creator you have nothing....when it comes to evolution...we were all created from micro organism...mass+energy+long period of time= human beings....you have no idea why you think the way that you do..you dont know why you experience joy, happyiness, anger...it dont make sense without a creator..

[MystryBox]

Evolution does explain why we are the way we are. You are as you are because that's what maximized survival for your ancestors. That might be a dry explanation compared to supernatural battles between good and evil and god-sacrifices, but sometimes truth just is what it is rather than being what what feels good or is entertaining to you.

[N0naden]

the ocean is pretty deep man

[DedAimRvolvr]

ablheza....This discussion is based on your brain, which is telling you (from experiences and such that have led you to believe in god) that there is a God. After that, your brain decided it should prove the existence of God (as far as you see it, anyway) and make a video on it.

Not because God said, "I think force this guy into making an argument."

[DedAimRvolvr]

Because if what you are saying is true, you're saying God is making you have a discussion on this and such.

Which removes the free will and choice that Christians so dearly mention all the time, which would make him non-existent as the Bible says. (Since the Bible is all Christians have to prove God anyway...)

[ablheza]

I find interesting that you know my brain more than me! :). Point to the place where I can see that I said what you say I said, it will help me answer you :)

[stperkin]

Thats an awesome quote about how "if someone was raised to believe elves caused rain, then every time it rained it would prove the existence of god for that person". That sums up so much of the logical fallacy presented by ablheza and other theists.

[ablheza]

I found this today :). If you still are around and interested tell me what fallacy I presented. But please refer to what I said no to what MystryBox says I said :)

[xgunwingx]

Technically science has led us to believe that there is a predetermined mass of the universe, and everything can be mathematically calculated, as to perceive that the universe was designed. I hate talking about religion because its way too touchy a subject... :(

[JFZcafe]

His argument sounds as flimsy as Aquinas' ontological argument, and as easily discredited. (I can imagine the most "perfect" island, therefore it must exist). Good response.

[ablheza]

Can you point where I said that? :)

[JFZcafe]

Ablheza, you didn't say that. Rather it is a standard rebuttal to the ontological argument. I was simply comparing your argument to that of Aquinas. sorry for the confusion

[Kwekubo]

You said in your video that since we are talking about God and since you believe in god then that makes God exist. But if I say that there are cheese people on the moon, that doesn't make it true - more evidence is needed! Do you acknowledge this?

[ablheza]

Well, I didn´t say exactly that :). I will upload today a more detailed video response. It´s being rendered right now. More evidence can be showed..., just need some basis of understanding :)

[Jimmys01]

You got him owned. Nice one :-)

[bootstaple]

Another excellently argued video. Although I cannot believe ablheza's argument in the first place. No...sorry....I can believe it, I've heard enough of them. Nice quote about the rain elves. I come from Scotland & I think we must be infested with the little bugggers. There's so much evidence...al the time. Peace man.

[ablheza]

Which argument you can´t believe?. Please mention it! :).

[bootstaple]

Your argument is based on an assumption that there is a god but you show no proof. It really is a vexing question, why is the something instead of nothing? Just because we are here, doesn't mean that there is a god. Maybe we are here just because we can be here. We just don't know but we can't leap to assumptions.

[ablheza]

The video was about "proving the existence of God". I did not argumented that "there is a God because there is a God". I didn´t said that God created nothing, perhaps I said just the opposite... who is making the assumptions? :)

[bootstaple]

Ok ablheza but aren't you suggesting that because we are here to ponder it, this debate proves god as it is an effect of god? In fact according to you the effects of god are everywhere. I just can't subscribe to this kind of reasoning.

[ablheza]

Yes, the effects of God are everywhere, still we don´t know about what we are talking about because of lack of common definitions... that is the problem here :). If you want you can check the video "Words" in my channel.

[swilson1968]

damn, I've been accusing the Elves for rain all these years! :-(

[ablheza]

The wrong asumptions: Never said said nature, ourselves, are effects of God. What is undeniable is that this chat is an effect of God :)

[MystryBox]

No, this chat is an effect of YOUR BELIEF in god. That you think there is a god and we chat about doesn't make god exist. Did you even watch the video?!?

[ablheza]

Ok! then my belief or your desbelief are also effects of God! :). I watched the video and I´m trying not to make wrong assumptions. I invite you to review mine. Second chapt. will come in another video response as soon as possible.

[MystryBox]

From your responses here it's not likely I'll comment further on your videos. You're not hitting me as particularly understanding of rational argument. If you still think your belief in god is an effect of god, there isn't much more I can say. To you rain proves elves... and to me you're on your own planet somewhere.

[ablheza]

Don´t feel bad about this. True I´m not including new arguments on the discussion. It´s just because I think that what matters here is not the subject, it´s the kind of discussione itself. Please consider all the comments, they are not randomly posted. I will make a vid response soon for the next step... Just consider that if I do this is becaus I enjoy this chat and care about your opinion, not as MagicTard :)

[ablheza]

The images of nature are on the video just because I like them... I told that they have nothing to do with the argument when I started talking!!

[ablheza]

You are getting closer!! :). Now think about the part when I say "One thing is "the thing" other "the properties of the thing"". Remember I did this to bring proof of the existence of God not to prove what he is or what he done! That may be later :) Step by step.

[MystryBox]

Effects of something or properties of something... my point is the same. You have to show the effect or property is actually from god.  You can't just point at something and baldly say it's an effect or property of god.

[ablheza]

Please consider what you said. I think here is an important key for this game. I´m glad you are getting closer!!. Think about the importance of the properties on this discussion!! :)

[user192021]

Instead of being cryptic, why don't you just construct a clear, rational argument like mystrybox did? Then maybe people will lend you some credibility instead of dismissing you as a nut like they have so far.

[ablheza]

I will do in next video. Can´t do that in text comments with char limits!. I think that this questions where useful to make a base to develope next argument. THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION!!

[MystryBox]

Keep in mind if you're just trying to prove the *idea* of god exists, nobody disputes that. Or that you can put names to ideas. If that's all you're doing it's really a waste of time because everyone already agrees.

[ablheza]

That´s an starting point, Plato and Aristotle discussed this before us! :)

[guigoft]

What's being done here is this: a bunch of neurons, nephrons and hemoglobins talking about the existence of a human body. One thinks god is the brain, one thinks god is the kidneys then there is MystryBox(the hemoglobins) who thinks it's all pointless because this is a fricking human body, i've run through it 300 times.

[DedAimRvolvr]

Lololololololol. You're amazing. xDDD

And so is MystryBox..he's helped my along my path of breaking free of Christianity. (Thanks ;D)

[guigoft]

I don't know bro, Jesus makes a lot of sense, don't get me wrong... It's just not logical when people say that Jesus and God are the same. How can you be the creator and creation, father and son at the same time? But i still like the teachings though... be kind to other and all that, isn't that the message?

[vestalmike15]

i agree the message is a good message but at the same time its not... christians use a very wierd way of ("of getting to heaven") they use fear they say if u dont do the right things u will burn in "hell" if there so convinced that "god" is real and they "know" god loves them all y would he punish them for eternity

[N0naden]

its not gods falt that man rebelled against him...god is not punishing you...its our own falt....you dont know much about the chrisitanity religion if your going to say that got punishes up to hell for all eternity...that is not how it goes.

[MystryBox]

It's ridiculous to say the creator is not responsible for his creation. It's especially ridiculous when that creator is supposedly all knowing and all powerful. But I'm not looking to get far into this argument because it's debate about stuff nobody knows... it's like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

[guigoft]

if you go to church, thats pretty much it. All eternity.

[ArchNME]

Why don't you just be kind to others and teach that then. Forget the rest of the nonsense. Shoot, I could tell you to be kind to others also that doesn't mean everything else I say is true or a good idea. You know being kind to others and other good things are good, just be good. Think for yourself.

[Pronghorn22]

Smurfs cause the rain, not elves. Get your facts correct. (Good video)

[A1RFburns]

I will use the elf argument, TNX.

[manwithoutgod101]

Excellent video!

[TheMagicTard]

Do you think people really care about your opinion about this? Do you think you are making a difference on YouTube? Your arguments aren't good either.

[xgunwingx]

I do...? does that make me a bad person? no...? do you have any relevant information that could argue in any cause that he doesn't raise a decent point? Seriously...for your own benefit...please dont comment ever again...

[MystryBox]

If you don't like my views, stop watching my videos. Duh.

[manwithoutgod101]

I care about his opinion and I do think he is making a difference. His arguments are excellent.

[southpawprof]

Sure people care about his opinions. No, he may not be making a difference on YouTube, but he has subscribers for a reason. His arguments use logic, and reason, and thus are as good as a human can do.

[southpawprof]

(MystryBox) "may not be making a difference on YouTube" I meant in terms of sheer numbers, not video content.