The Trap - We Will Force You To Be Free (1 of 6)

[Tankotoka]

It curious and not a little baffling why Adam Curtis felt the need to distort Isaiah Berlin's idea of Negative Liberty since the central thrust of the documentary could have stood without this distortion. In "Two Concepts of Liberty," Berlin defines and highlights the pros and cons of each without exalting or preferring one over the other. He only warns that both can be misused in the name of, or in an ostensible quest for, liberty for all. I urge viewers to read the essay for themselves.

[ChorltonBrook]

@blowakilo Errm, DominationCorp's a yank.

[leopheard]

This is part three not part one

[MrLlmnm]

human illness is egoism and until man learns how to leash it and be over its nature of egoism there will not be freedom for any one. Human egoism grows with every new generation thus bringing more harm and destruction to humanity itself. Fix egoism you can fix the world!

[swoopidoo]

@crimkingsonable thanks for the answer anyway mate 

[HelenaXVI]

It's interesting how he doesn't mention Ayn Rand even once.

[lettucemonster]

@HelenaXVI Ayn Rand is in the trailer for his next film, airing May 23rd 2011. That suggests to me she is going to feature heavily in it.

[HelenaXVI]

@lettucemonster That's cool, mmmkay :)

[YouDonteverhavetodie]

why is this on the BBC?

[SalemStorm]

That Berlin dude is as whacked as they come

[swoopidoo]

anyone know what track is playing at 1:06 and after?

[crimkingsonable]

@swoopidoo All I know is that it is a Brian Eno track, I cant remember the name or album though Im afraid.

[crimkingsonable]

@crimkingsonable Ok sorry I failed, Brian Eno just ends at 1.06

[PLUSHAIRPLANECARPET]

blowing up trains is easier than making them run on time...anarchy doesnt work

[RealBulldust]

freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose...or whatever

[radicalsquare]

Berlin's theory neglects that eliminating competition and consolidating power were necessary evils for revolutionary governments against counter-revolutionary elements, common to both the French and Russian revolutions. Revolutionaries furthermore are no less immune to corruption by power, no matter how altruistic their initial motives. The other problem is that Berlin offering negative liberty is a pragmatic way to perpetuate a desired system, but rev's occur to overthrow undesirable ones.

[radicalsquare]

Dichotomizing "freedom" is perhaps a relevant categorization for the sake of historical analysis, but it neglects the pragmatism (and egotism) of needing to consolidate power and eliminate opposition to a new gov't. Robespierre's eloquent justification is a counterweight to his brutality that's needed for a "new society of virtue." "We must force them to be free" is actually a distortion of Rousseau's General Will, from Social Contract.

[099749]

cont... .5.35

Since when does the destruction of the postion or power of a person, destroy the person? We are more than our place or our power.

Also a joke to say that a person has to be changed to be free- the free- are free.

Both a rational and unrational person can be free, how they use that freedom is the only thing that changes.

Gotta go- but these intelectuals just screw us all- idiots!

[099749]

Roguepshere quote: "terror has become, the despotism of liberty against tyranny"

Ergo if you stand agaisnt tyranny you're a terrorist.

The war on terrror- the war against freedom fighters!

"the destruction of those whose moral corruption, was baring the way to a new society of virtue" What is wrong with this quote? One since when is moral curuption of the ruling elite ok? two since when does a revolutionary want the destruction of those that rule?

[099749]

Berlin was wrong: positive freedom truly is an invention of Berlin.

A positive freedom is a freedom to do something, and a negative freedom is a freedom not to do something.

With thinking you have thinking or not thinking. So Berlin used somthing to change these freedoms: that thing was revolution. So positives and negatives changed- Positives cause revoultions and negatives do not.

Thats that.

'If all activity stems from thinking- revoltuion must also- Berlin' stupid!

[099749]

@099749

This documentary states at the beginning that 'this documentary will unearth a forgotten idea of freedom'- not the case. That idea of freedom is an invention of Berlin one and secound has not been forgotten but supressed- and intencionally so.

Berlins negative freedom society only negative freedoms are allowed and positives are supressed- sadly thou Berlin is wrong about revoultion and its causes

Negative freedom is slave society- that's why the rulers excepted it- it protects them

[selvmordspilot]

Saying that positive liberty inevitably leads to horror is a fallacy. It only leads to horror when it is combined with a willingness to compromise: not with other ideas, but accepting that evil must be done to reach the ultimate good.

Rejecting to do evil, and keeping positive freedom as the goal is perhaps the most dificult path, but it is also the right one.

[SAGEBOT500]

\/\/\/ Conspiracy theorist slapfight, LMAO.

[Mavrilon]

We will force you to be"' free",whether you like it or not!

[JSS64]

Wouldn't organised religion be interpreted as a form of positive liberty?

[CocteauDalighari]

@JSS64 Depends on who organizes it.

[y2jeff84]

where the fuck can I purchase a decent quality DVD of Adam Curtis' documentaries? I want them.

[TheBandtime]

hay im american and im 14 and i love learning ..... i hate that people think only bad about us =/ it sucks

[positionnormal71]

Kill the bloody mood music please.

[Senka73]

Watch "Wake up call - new world order - remastered" here on Utube, you need to know the truth.

[mihir1310]

This episode is indeed the best , both as the topic and from the aspect of film-making !!! A perfect climax to this series !!!!!!!

[DonPMitchell]

I think this is an even older idea. We will force you to be free, we will force you to be christian, we will force you to be vegan, whatever. Zealotry is an old problem, caused by people who love to judge and control.

[xrawalmondbutterx]

Haha, force you to be vegan. Cause that's in the same realm as Christianity and whatever model of democracy.

[DonPMitchell]

The point being, there are people who become zealous about all sorts of political movements, great and small.

[katiegreenaway]

We can't believe the Media. - Money & influence. We are left to work it out for ourselves. Even the Internet needs to be taken not completely seriously. But it's the last bastion of Free Speech. So they are censoring it! What 'THEY' are aiming for is military Rule, 'They' being the supreme capitalists.

[katiegreenaway]

Look up "common Purpose", and 'New World Order'. Conspiracy theorists are not lunatics! Governments are being led by the nose,- by the hugely wealthy. We are being insidiously conned to change our belief system. I belive 'political correctness' was a nice bit of social engineering, designed to do away with Freedom of Speech & Democracy. P.C. is ascribed to the 'left wing'. It is NOT left wing! The Left wing isn't Left wing. It's pretending! Paid by the Capitalists. media monopolised, biased.

[randomlaughingman]

contre-conference(dot)net/file­s/THE_LABORATORY_PLANET_EN(dot­)pdf

laboratoryplanet(dot)org/

"why are we working for our own obsolescence"

at some point the majority of the humans making up the earth's motile immune system, became infected in the mind as a cell gets infected by a virus that shuts down, or alters, the genetic instructions, and they began to instead construct things that destroy the planet.

[katiegreenaway]

from katiegreenaway. Will look up your link.. From what I can discover, <neuroleptic programing' is their method of altering, thought. beliefs.

[randomlaughingman]

people don't tend to evaluate how they interpret the world. a lot of folks mean well, but they haven't started out right - so instead of finding out how to interpret reality properly first, they find out about some conspiracy or they see under the lies, and they go with that explanation as if it also is the truth (ie - the same way they went along with their previous interpretations), when '9 times outa 10' it's yet another layer of deciet. few seem to be taught how to think properly.

[SpinaDei]

Thank you for posting eaglenest1972

[JasonDamisch]

This is fascism.

[katiegreenaway]

Freedom of speech is long forgotten. I find this society abhorent, & it, just as much as communism did, has lead to the death of good art, Does anybody truly enjoy "Neighbours"? That's what you're being fed. Capitalism & communism are both disasters

[randomlaughingman]

they seek to eradicate the soul. they bring everything down to low-chakra concerns, and even when they do that they ensure all those emotions are kept in small-minded ignorant harm-enjoying boundaries. even within their low chakra world, they do not have the capacity to enjoy life, only to make it miserable and about conflict. they are literally pointless, they have neither a single nor a double center.

[STAGMAG]

Adam Curtis is one of the best documentary film makers of our time. Listen.

[Pinch0fSalt]

Wow. Where am I? 1984? Three thumbs down for wanting to be free, is that wrong? Youtube is fucked up, this documentary itself is trying to open your mind to what has happened to us and here you all are spouting your own realities and trying to censor others? Again, GET OVER YOURSELF. If you are thumbs downing people who are expressing valid opinions go and move to China where you will have all the censorship you crave.

[teamcrumb]

well said. the whiners should go to china. remember not to shoot the messenger though, Youtube surely has some gimps on the payroll, but the folk that make it the sprawling crawling behemoth that it is, i.e us folk who use it, are whats fucked up. Yt is as innocuous as any portal that allows us all to meet and share our greasy suds with one another. Anyways, yeh! back to your salient point, dictator lovin' dicks, go find your idiot king.

[katiegreenaway]

Happy Xmas teamcrumb, Been trying to reach you on your page, but it keeps sayig error! Hope the Glandular Fever has gone! Wishing you giant water lillies for Xmas!

[callingUdown]

No government or political movement will set any one free...sure we americans are ignorant to world politics and blindly will march to dixie when the piper plays his flute.Man does not want to be free!He is affraid of real freedom.He is not free on his most carnal levels.His love and sexuality are repressed and turned perverted and hateful.Wilhelm Reich wrote much of the "emotional plauge" in his book listen little man.And for doing so his books were burned,he was imprisoned,and died in the USA

[Pinch0fSalt]

And what are you, spokesman for humanity? Get over yourself. I want to be free, therefore your theory is rubbished - and there are millions of people who want the same, who are most certainly not afraid of freedom or their sexuality.

Fool.

[ninawillams]

there is no such thing as freedom,u are always trapped inside a situation,wethr it b physical or emotional,the freedom in the dictionary anyway

[rosswoof]

Actually in my line of work I can agree with you... most people are terrified of freedom - real freedom

[DominationCorp]

If only every American watched this series...they probably would still would think they were free. That or they would get bored with this show because there is no nudity or plot twists.

[eaglenest1972]

ROTFLMAO!!! lol lol XD

[MoaiMaea]

By using these inane expressions you are kind of illustrating his point ...

[DominationCorp]

@eaglenest1972 I've changed my mind, my previous comment was cynical and elitist (just a little...)

[jazzmunky]

@DominationCorp kudos to good sir

[pataphysician66]

True- or lame talent shows.

[killerbee2k]

@DominationCorp are you really so vain and narrow minded that you think only americans are "victims" of this manipulation? Everyone in the western world thinks like this, and I agree with negative liberty, I dont want no paternalistic bureacrat telling me how to live my life when I got my own dreams.

[TaqiyyaExposer]

@DominationCorp

I get it, there's no nudity or plot twists outside America? Fucking loser, you're probably French.

[reptilespantoso]

@TaqiyyaExposer - don't get your panties in a bunch.

we (us non americans) don't have nudity, since we didn't start wearing clothes yet. ;-P

now, seriously: you must understand that the Sarah Palins of your country, and the militairy expansions of the last decade have dragged down your country's image, therefore, some mild critisism and jabs are very logical.

[kalikaputra]

@DominationCorp you forgot no explosions as well,no explosions or sill one liners means its not good for them.

[mkdelta69]

@DominationCorp Fuck You...........I never thought I was free.....and I jump down the throat of anyone who thinks they do in the US......

the people at the top create nightmares to induce fear.....and fear is the easiest form of brainwashing......False Expectations Appearing Real.......

The NAZIS and Stalin used overt terror.....the US uses high tech terror to create fear thus restricting the information the human mind accepts......

thus the only information accepted in fantasy...........

[mkdelta69]

@DominationCorp Communism is just another corporate capitalist nightmare program

COINTELPRO US ........C-O-U-N-T-E-R.........­...intelligence program

Kill the top 5% of the leadership.........restrict the flow of information.......

LONG LIVE WIKILEAKS..........and you

MANUFACTURE CONSENT........

with repeaters for

PROBLEM REACTION SOULUTION

[mkdelta69]

@DominationCorp I'm American......The CIA motto "The Truth Shall Set You Free".....their operations are mainly counter intelligence...

Saddam modeled Stalin......this is why CIA chose him............

[quitejaded]

@DominationCorp This actually is really boring. I watch documentaries all the time. This is the most boring one I've seen in months. :/

[LuNaLoTuS333]

@DominationCorp you prove your ignorance when you judge people, base on where they are from.

[yankeecandy1988]

@DominationCorp You are too smart! :) No wonder this was not show on PBS

[mikepike25]

@DominationCorp I want to be pissed at you, but I just saw an ad for The Jersey Shore.....

[mddkpp]

@DominationCorp Characterising Americans as stupid, ignorant, fat, passive etc got old a long time ago.

[TempoTemple]

@mddkpp Old but true.

[xxxslayerxxx666]

@DominationCorp or violence, and car chases, and punchlines......the worst part is that simply don't care, or they don't see the point because they don't believe things can ever change!

[neverbeenfree]

This is all b.s. The Zionists have created and funded both sides of every war since the Revolution. The Zionists brag that Marx and Rothschild are two sides of the same coin. It does not matter what side you choose, you will be enslaved by Zionists. Every word of this video is b.s. See Esoteric Agenda and Eustace Mullins. Berlin is just another Zionist and the masses never felt the way he claims. I am astonished by how far from reality this program is.

[ostrichspeed]

Lunatic fringe yokels like you are what is neutering political dissent today. Conspiracies exist, but they are not the GOOD v. EVIL fantasies of lizardmen and Rothschilds and the Masonic Lodge. We face railroading of any attempts to reform real concrete problems but dissenters are often painted as loopy radicals. Screwball fantasists like yourself only give them more ammunition to retard progress in the long run. Study some history, drop the David Icke and wake up. Please.

[neverbeenfree]

You are severely retatrded. You will be overwhelmed in the next few years. See Lindsey Williams on Alex Jones:The Coming Crash.

[chrisp3001]

David Icke has some good points to make maybe you should read his book. it's easy to criticise.

[billyysands]

google Fusion paranoia

[Pinch0fSalt]

I agree while David Icke DOES speak some sense try someone like Noam Chomsky, John Pilger, or watch Harold pinters speach on youtube.

David Icke once claimed he was Jesus, he just can't be taken seriously.

[randomlaughingman]

if you understood the control program, you'd know that his son of god claim is used to ensure the rest of what he says is not taken seriously, and you'd know to overlook what parts are possibly mistaken, and what parts are 100% accurate. just sort the wheat from the chaff..eg, read my comments, it's obvious why i use insults on some people. ignore the stuff that only applies to evil, and take on board the facts that the evil is just there to obscure and distort. easy peasy.

[Renegen1]

@ostrichspeed Why do you lump Lizardmen and Rothschilds together? The solutions all proposed today to the world's problems are world government, a permanent G20, a supra-governmental environment institution, same for financial regulation etc You even see the public Rothschilds on TV supporting all those ideas!

If you truly are enlightened and willing (as I strive), then be open to radical ideas like one world governments. The documentaries I watched just today hint to that, msg me for more

[ostrichspeed]

Because Lizardmen and Rothschilds and the Bohemian Grove and Birthers and Truthers are... what's a good metaphor? different sides of some paranoid nerd's 20-sided dice?

They are blatant red herrings for people who may be right to be suspicious of the powers that be, especially of financial capital, but have no interest in nuance or basic fact-checking: my favorite example of this is Alex Jones' interview of Noam Chomsky.

[Renegen1]

@ostrichspeed No but please tell me what facts those are that disprove the goal of a world one government.

The issue is understandably hard to agree with because the links are weak at best. It's hard to put your finer on it when the political planning for this was decades in the making.

Let's go slowly on this: 1. Why would bankers willingly blow up their banks? 2. Why are the reforms not including breaking up too big to fail?. 3. Why is the only solution provided a global regulator?

[The4LA2Baker0]

@ostrichspeed While i agree with you, i must protest your statement. As strongly as I believe anything, I can never really be 100% sure of ANYTHING. In that sense, i have no right to tell anyone else what is lunacy, or not possible. That would be hypocritical and against the morals of free speech. If you support free speech, it is for the opposing opinions, or not at all.

I think, IMHO, the real problem is peoples lack of ability to decipher bull shit from logical and reasonable possibility.

[mkdelta69]

@ostrichspeed repeaters and problem reaction solution fit history perfectly.............

Just because you have your head in your ass........don't criticize others for your inability to analyze history.......

Everything that Berlin cried about like a bitchy little girl......the US does.......Subvert Iran......Iraq......Columbia..­...USSR......Bolivia etc......

Phoenix Program......MKUltra.......Ope­ration Gladio.....etc

even an idiot like you can see the REAL EVIL EMPIRE....

[lazyweb]

@ostrichspeed

Ad Hominem. Against the man. Wake the fuck up yourself and come with logic, not ridicule. What you are trying to say make perfect sense. Study some logic, you are already awake.

[ostrichspeed]

@lazyweb My comment is not at all an ad hominem

[terryklumpp1969]

@ostrichspeed Excellent. Well said.

[livefortruth101]

@ostrichspeed

Greetings from NY.

Well said, and I could not agree more.