Greg Bahnsen - Defending the Christian Faith (part 2)

[ILiveInMyParadise]

5 star apologist.

[irisheye801]

Don't get sucked in by this guy and his assumption that nonbelievers share the same epistimology with believers. Knowledge is derived not from any "ulitimate authority". Knowledge is derived from that which can be rationally observed or extrapolated by that observation. The extrapolation however must be testable and find support from that which is observed. End of story -- easy to apply -- and religion fails this epistimology.

[TommyJ77]

@irisheye801 Hmm... Im not so sure if i agree with you. For example, if one believes that a man can not "know for certain if there is a God", I would say that that is simply a belief that is based on faith because it cannot be proven. I believe that One CAN know for certain that God exists. How can one who believes otherwise tell me that I am wrong and say it with any confidence? Every single person on Earth has a set of beliefs - based on faith - about where we came from and how we should live.

[irisheye801]

@TommyJ77 I think you put the cart before the horse. Under your epistimology, anything that can not be disproved is possible, and somethings that can not be disproved are absolutely true (like god) because you just want it to be so. And no I do not agree that "Every single person on Earth has a set of beliefs - based on faith." My epistimolgy is based on reason, observable facts or testable extrapolation of observable facts.

[TommyJ77]

ive never heard the cart b4 the horse expression.Wut does it mean?

I must say that I dont believe it is true that your beliefs are all solid, grounded FACTS as you say.We all have beliefs about where we came from, what happens when we die, and how us humans should live. Noones beliefs on these subjects can not be based on observable facts, and any extrapolation is not grounded in pure provable fact, so by definition, is then grounded in faith. You have faith, sir. My faith is in Jesus. Yours?

[soc22lax]

@irisheye801

Personal knowledge is not always derived strictly from personal observation. Epistemology has an element of faith to it. I know that the moon is not made of cheese although I personally have never observed that fact to be true. I have faith in the observations of the astronauts and scientists who have been there and studied it. In the same way, part of my knowledge of God comes from the witness of the Bible.

[BobbyMercy1]

liserig pheonemem are still inherent unto thy understandingyou know God you know the God Heads a mystery bobbymercy1 this comment is for bob and da two of religous peeps bobby knows its a kind friendly comment I loved this video truly I did bobbymercy1

[heloWelo]

It's amazing that so many resort to sweeping statements and bold claims without backing up the nature of the claims.

Bahnsen at least offers solid reasoning - when people don't like the conclusion they resort to mud slinging.

How about the dissenters use rational arguments?

[JanJiska]

Because if everyone stuck to pure rational arguments there would be no religion.

[sweetsweatyfeet]

Bahnsen's "ultimate authority" is a figment of his own imagination and far more unjustifiable and delusional than any "world view" that attempts to define reality through rational inquiry.

Christopher Hitchens lays waste to such fascistic theories of the cosmos in this brilliant commentary on Christian morality. 

watch?v=CYaQpRZJl18

[a5dr3]

Your comparing apples and oranges. Hitchens was demolished by one of Bahnsens students in written debate in Christianity Today Magazine. I personally find Hitchens very captivating and entertaining but he doesn't begin to deal with the actual philisophical problems of atheism. Though his political science and modern historical knowledge is exceptional he is a layman when it comes to epistemological issues. He wouldn't even understand what Bahnsen is talking about.

[sweetsweatyfeet]

Sorry, I don't agree. What Bahnsen has to say is pure intellectual posturing. He could rationalize the existence of Jack and the beanstalk using the same artificially constructed babble.

Atheism can not have philosophical problem since it is not a theory or ideology. Atheism makes no claims. It is simply a position of skepticism in response to theories, ideologies and dogmas which themselves have insurmountable "philosophical problems" with science and reason.

[emmthreejonny]

"Atheism makes no claims."

Claiming there is no God is a claim. Its one of the oldest problems of skepticism in the world, going back to the Garden of Eden making humans as gods, being the sole captains of their lives.

[sweetsweatyfeet]

Your statement is illogical. The PRIMARY claim for the existence of god comes from the theist who therefore bears responsibility to prove the claim. Logic does not call upon the atheist to prove negative that which has not been proven positive.

By bringing up the Garden of Eden you "beg the issue" since that has not been proven to exist either.

[emmthreejonny]

I didn't bring up the Garden of Eden stating its existence, I was stating atheism to be as ancient.

[andeee77]

Sometimes these debates online remind me of Jonah, where your purpose is not love but rather hate, and how you would hate it if God were to save these people b/c of how wicket they are. atheists online use so much 'German' in their reasoning itd' take forever to define everything unless they're like g.smith or stein who learned the skill of communication. but if a christian reads this, i would say to love them as a brother or sister, and don't be like Jonah.

[Jimbo3783]

Amen Brotha'

[j2hsieh]

Those who said there is no truth, no absolute, how on earth you have this notion of truth or absolute ?

God has Already Revealed to mankind.

and fear of the Lord you will know it.

[j2hsieh]

Too bad the majority of people buy into the propaganda of the Marketings in the world.

Rather than seeking for life and truth, people are willingly against there is ANY truth exist, it is all about "personal preferences".

God said He has already revealed himself to Human being. That is Why, no matter which race, you see people worship gods etc. (even though they are false, but the shadow is there).

[Chrismoore1281]

This is unfathomably stupid propaganda.

[a5dr3]

C'mon Chris, u don't want to then have to explain how there is objective truth existing outside your personal opinion that one could devite from? Just say the electromagnetic impulses in your grey matter r different than Bahnsens.

[CAndiron]

If you're too lazy to think through the issue, how do you even know it is stupid propaganda? Why even bother to comment? Why not just comment 'This makes me feel bad, but I'm incapable of articulating why'.

[bs2174]

It's a sad day for fools when people like Chris thinks that proof is propaganda.