ok, lets put things in an order. for the papers, i am christian too, but this is a nice long lasting trick. otherwise the armenian patriarch wouldnt go to israeli political courts claiming the right to the light. all this along with a lot of mouslim theories is a bunch of crab. just be a good person and try to help others if you can. the rest is only bullshitt
@dinoaxd Sorry this is no trick, the Holy Light has been appearing for centuries. It always happens on Pascha-what you would refer to as Easter, according to the old Julian calendar. Interestingly enough, when there have been Christians from other confessions there, it is only the Orthodox whose candles light miraculously, other confessions have theirs lit from Orthodox candles
By the way, we Muslims pray for no light ... what a funny statement by the one who posted this video....
We do not think Jerusalem in Sacred place because of a light or even because of how many profits lived there, it is because of the fact that the doom day will start from there. We believe it is the spot where all human will be judged and sent to havens or hell .
Precisely for those reasons-to show anyone else who might read the postings that not all Christians are wacko but there is a faith which has remained unchanged since the time of Christ
'In times past, God, without body and form could in no way be represented. But now since God has appeared in flesh and lived among men, I can depict that which is visible of God. I do not venerate matter, but I venerate the creator of matter, who became matter for me, who condescended to live in matter, and who through matter accomplished my salvation; and I do not cease to respect the matter through which my salvation is accomplished.'
I read Colossians 1:15 and yet i fail to see the COMMAND of using Lord's image, or any image in worship! Furthermore, who can tell for sure that the Lord actually LOOKED like that? For if He is the image, and image is important, then i want to worship the RIGHT image, not who-knows-who's face!!! Till then, i'll stick to the commendments, for they are much to clear for me to accept Satan's vioce, as Adam once did when he was told: "oh, did God really meant that?" YES idiot! GOD REALLY MEANT THAT!
Thank you for your name calling, it tells us where you are at. No True Christian would resort to that kind of behaviour. No-one claims that icons show what Christ looked like. The Gospels are not biography but there to teach us the way of salvation so icons are written to teach us more about what it means to be a Christian
The Lord is the Truth, and those 20 quotation in the Bible are ENOUGH for me! Because, if it were as you say, then why can't ANYONE pretend that the Lord actually accepted, let's say...homosexuality? Eh, nevermind that it's not found in the Bible, who sais that ALL the Lord's words are there? Maybe He expressed that once but they failed to write it down. See how dangerous this path is, my friend? In this way, EVERYTHING could be justified with some, unrecorded, words of the Lord. Icons included!
Boy, you do sound like a taliban, you know? I will refuse you this satisfation. All I will tell is that I am a Christian, as i see the Christians in the Bible. For God gave me this little brain to see how they worshipped in the early days, and simply follow their example. And not to believe Satan-like interpretations and twisting of crystal-clear commendments. And not to blindfully obey a state-institution called Orthodox Church.
By the way, do you know that an Orthodox bishop is to be prosecuted in Romania, for asking money in order to accept certain students at the Orthodox seminary in Bucharest? How about THIS for a lovely fruit of the Holy Orthodox Church? At least they're consistent: they ask for money even in the early stages, so that the students have a clear idea of how things work in this business. Is this the unity you obsesivelly keep reminding me of? Thanks, but no thanks!
Sounds like the same as when I went to a Protestant Bible College-fancy having to pay for something!!! I certainly did. No wonder they call America the land of the FREE!!!
The Early Christians were Jewish converts who would have worshipped originally in the synagogues-clearly Our Lord did this during His time on earth. After His Death and Resurrection, the Acts make it clear that Disciples followed the same pattern but with emphasis on Our Lord's fulfilment of Messianic Prophecy.Acts 3v1. Clearly they were not into a charismatic free for all
A new friend! Okay, so you say BRIBE is allright? There is a difference between paying an academical institution for some tutoring, any academical institution, and HAVING TO PAY for spiritual services provided by an institution that, according to it's own standards, should not require money as a condition for those services. To add to the hipocrisy, the same institution claims to be the only one entitled to provide those services. Yes, I am talking about the Orthodox Church.
So are you telling me that in America if I require the services of a clergyman for, say, a weddding or a funeral, it is free of charge? I doubt it given that in America you even have to pay for your health service. When my parents died I paid the ministers for their service as I did when I got married. You are either incredibly naive or a consumate liar. I hope it is the former
My friend, as lovely as Orthodoxy might look in theory, i see the disater it brought in Romania. It's like communism: lovely on paper, disastruous in practice (read: fruits) Do you know that in Romania (the second largest Orthodox country) they would sacrifice chicken to appease the spirit of the land before building a house? And that 85% of people call themselves orthodox but they involve God's name in some of the worst swears i've ever heard? Here including sexual refferences towards Christ!!!
I would invite over to see/hear for youself, although my perverted protestant conscience would stop me from literarly translate all of them! And yet they call themselves Orthodox! And I ask again: why are the Othodox churches empty? And the problem with paying is, just as I said and you deceitfully avioded it, is the hypocrisy that lies in the fact that the institution that claims exclusivity, also asks for money for the same services. There's no alternative, you HAVE to pay them.
Im glad you recognise your protestant conscience is perverted, that is a good sign.
Many Churches are empty-in Britain people buy old churches to live in. It is due to two things-1) atheistic attack in the media 2) fundamentalist attack on Ancient Christianity.
How often is the 'church' you attend full? 24/7? I doubt it, in fact I know its not. At least Orthodox Churches are open so that people can go in & pray.
Why shouldnt you pay the priest ? how is he supposed to eat?
It was "perverted" but you failed to understand. The reason I'm rising the attendance issue is that I see Orthodox churches courtyards full, only at Easter and Christmas, and even then people stand in the court, smoking, joking, having not a clue about what's going on there, I participaded at some! And the rest of the year: EMPTY! And yet, those people call themseves Orthodox. At least protestants GO at church if they call themselves like that! And since when people need a "church" to go pray?
Oh, is it because is "holy"? The Lord didn't pray at the Temple, He prayed in the mountains, for instance. Orthodoxy simply keeps people in the same boundage the priest were holding men in the Lord's times! You know, I have a homeless person working for me, and, more often than not, he's not working! It's a holiday, he sais, it's some Saints day! And his girl friend just had an abortion, and he also steals of me, and he smokes, and he drinks. Heck! He's the usual Orthodox I see every day!
Actually the Lord did pray in the Temple, he kept the Jewish calendar. Check out Acts-Peter and John went to the Temple at the Hour of Prayer and healed the man born blind.
If this man is homeless give him a home-why not give him yours?, if you are a better Christian than he is, give him yours and let God meet your needs.
As if you would know, the Lord had a total disregard for buildings mafe "for Him". As I recall, He had some of His most intense spiritual moments in the wild or in the garden. Funny, He needed no massive, "holy" church building. I am waiting for you 2 let me know if u gave all your money, clothes and personal belongings to the poor. Then I will congratulate you and keep renting my houses, and THEN help the poor! Why give my house to someone that will AGAIN lose it the next day to the bank?
So as I thought you are all BS. If you area real Christian you would help some one in trouble. The Good samaritan never thought on those lines. You have a form of godliness but you deny it s power
BS? Blessed and sanctified? Thank you! You are manipulative just as any good orthodox priest would be! Bear in mind that the good samaritan put the man on his donkey! It's dosen't say the he gave the donkey to the man in trouble! How do you know I don't help people in trouble?How do you know what or how much I did for those homeless guys? I will not tell you, for I didn't do it for some orthodox self richeous fellow's praises! Who gives you the right to judge? This conversation ends here!
The Good Samaritan poured in oil and wine to heal him then took him to an inn and paid for his mediacl care until he was healed and on his feet again. Seems to me you wont help people you dont like, doesnt your BIble say something about doing good to those who despitefully use you? Mine does,
the church is the body of Christ-check out 1 Corinthians- Christ said He would build His Church and the Gates of Hell would not prevail against it (Mt 16v18) Ask yourself which Church? A Protestant one which has been around for five hundred years or the Orthodox which has been around since the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2v1)?
What people do with the opportunities God gives them is their responsibility. It is not your business or mine. The Church is there for the people when they are ready.
I've heard time&time again this silly argument about the ancienty of Orthodoxy. The exact argument could've been used against Christianity 2000 yrs ago! For the world had millennium-old religions by then too! And bear in mind that Orthodoxy, as you know it is NOT 2000 yrs old! Don't deceive yourself in believing that this is the worship pattern that the Lord used or left for us to schizofrenically follow! I see nowhere the Lord singing any lithurgy, do you? Levitical priesthood?We ALL r priests!
I am afraid its not silly, Ignatius, Clement and Polycarp who were all disciples of the Apostles (in particular Peter, Paul and John in that order) all describe the practices of the Early Christian Church which are identical to the Orthodox Church and unidentical to the Protestant Reformed Church. Justin Martyr writing in 175ad describes a Christian service identical to the one I was in when your email arrived (I assume you wernt in Church). The Apostolic Constitutions of the 4th century TBC
describe Christian services of the 3rd century-the Orthodox Liturgy is clearly rooted in those services, so yes Orthodoxy can trace itself back to the early Churches. You just have to be a half decent scholar to see it.
Jesus is clearly used to worshipping in both the Temple and the Synagogue-a cursory reading of any gospel will show you that-may I suggest you start off with Luke 4v14-17
Well, i'm decent enough to follow the Lord's pattern and need nothing in my worhip! If people cemented one form of worship, and started implementing forbiden components (yes, images!) and disguised pagan gods into christian figures, so that the new religion will be more appealing to the mob, once Christianity became official state religion, well then, I'll leave it to them. I'm decent enough not to twist God's crystal-clear commands!
Dont tell me you another disciple of Jack Chick. Rofl. It is a pity that when you were in an Orthodox Church you didnt listen to what the Priest was saying, you might have experienced something of God a lot earlier
Actually I know a lot about Romania, more than you that is clear. I know personally of three Romanian priests in my area who have established FOUR churches. I have even had lunch with the Bishop & guess what? The only chickens wern't sacrificed, they were bought from a supermarket, already killed and ready to cook!! They were delicious!! As was the other Romanian food and Romanian wine. The way it is going there will soon be many Orthodox Churches in Britain cos of Romania. Thank God for Romania
You are very arrogant. I've lived in Romania all of my life (30 yrs) and u claim you know about my country more than I do? As for the chickens, I'm sorry you mock a very serious issue: that of pagan practices allowed by the Orthodox Church. I am just sick of all their rituals and glamour. They're nothing but painted graves! These days ppl were flocking to kiss some saints bones in my town. For luck one said. You hear me? "Christians" talking about luck! Is there such a thing called luck???
Fine if you dont like Orthodox worship that is ok, I dont like Protestant worship-last time I went to Protestant service it was like a Rock Concert. I go to Church to worship God, not be entertained and bop. If you prefer Rock Concerts to true worship, no problem, but I found something special in the Orthodox Church that was missing from Protestant Christianity-a Real Sense of the Presence of God
Aham, so sacrificing chicken in order to appease the spirit of the land, with the blessing of the priest, is part of Orthodox worship?Funny,u found a "Real Sense of the Presence of God" but no sense at all of paganism. Disguised paganism! And don't tell me that IF YOU WANTED u wouldn't have found a decent protestant church, as i did! And once "2 or 3 are gatherred in His name" I don't need to SENSE the presence, I KNOW He's there, for so He said. I wouldn't trust my spiritual life to "sensing"!
Interestingly enough the deacon of the parish I attend went to Romania for a wedding-our local Romanian Vice-Consul was getting married. He went with the Orthodox Priest from Leeds-and guess what NO CHICKENS being sacrificed!!!
So, 3 Romanian Priests in Britain, 1 Bishop, 4 Parishes plus 1 English Deacon and 1 English Priest to Romania=NO CHICKENS sacrificed.
1 Renegade Orthodox who hates Orthodoxy knows of a chicken being sacrificed.
Why talk about ordinary man when it takes somewhat of a scholar to understand Orthodoxy? Listen dude, ALL I need to know about and for Salvation is in the Lord's words! NOTHING else, for nothing else was preached by Peter in the day of Pentecost or Filip to the eunuc or Peter to Cornelius! OR THE LORD HIMSELF TO THE DISCIPLES! You believe a system, I believe the Lord that is not and cannot be contained in a system! You go on and serve Orthodoxy, and make confusion between a religion and the Lord
This is my last statement here, i would give you my email adress, but I see this site dosen't allow it. It is avocat.matei at the world's most known instant mail provider.
What is it with you fundamentalists? Why do you think you have got the monopoly on salvation? Why do you all feel the need to be rude to other Christians? It's always the same reaction when you guys cant get your own way!! As I said earlier I found something in Orthodoxy of God I had not found in Western Christianity.
I'd rather have an idol-worshipper call me fundamentalist, than God Almighty sending me to hell for purposely disobeing His command regarding idols. And bear in mind, that we protestans DO NOT consider we have monopoly on salvation! It's rather the opposite, with the "Holy Orthodox Church" considerring that there is no salvation outside the Orthodox Church. I say what Peter said:"in every nation, any one who fears Him and does what is right is acceptable to Him" Does it name a specific church?
So, my dear idol-worshipper, candle burner, and spiritual gymnast, salvation comes like this: believe in the divinity of our Lord and His sacrifice. PERIOD! Of course, good works come as a consequence. If you let yourself deceived in believing that you have to belong to a state-paied institution calld Orthodox Church Inc. in order to get saved, then I'm sorry for you. I belong to the church which said that "you are temples of the Holy Spirit" and "where 2 or 3..." I need no ritual assurance!
But a religion that misleads people by pretending that the Holy Spirit is given by annointing one why oil, or that baptises children, when the oder is:first belive, then get baptised (yeah, i know all the bla-bla with the god-parents taking the oath in the name of the child...btw, did you know that, usually, the god-parents are chosen based on their financial status? guess not) and that claims money for services they pretend to have exclusivity for. Lovely picture of the Lord's legacy!
I'm not saying protestantism is all right and u don't find tears there also. But is definetly not falling it's standards as short as the Orthodox does! And the claim that the Orthodox councils gave us the Bible dosen't excuse the paganisation and the falling away from the truth! Is like Romania's MP's. They issue the law, and they are the first to break it. Imagine them yelling in their defence: Hey mob, why pick on us? Who gave u these laws in the first place?Hilarious?Read: Orthodox Church!
I have read The Orthodox Church-I have even met Metropolitan Kallistos who . wrote it. There is no paganism in the Orthodox Church, you have been hoodwinked by Protestants who are probably American and dont like Europeans and have filled your head with lies
well bad news for all my five godchildren, I am a poor man!!! And please check your BIble before you make any more incorrect comments about anointing with oil-try the Book of James, the book the Protestant leader Martin Luther tried to get thrown out of the New Testament.
State-paied institution? No Christian body is paid for by the State Please do yourself a favour and get your facts right, you only make a fool of yourself
" I belong to the church which said that "you are temples of the Holy Spirit" and "where 2 or 3..." so you are Orthodox, that is what the Orthodox Bible says
There is only one Church-Jesus said 'I will build My Church and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it'. Which of the 2000 Protestant denominations was He referring to?
Why do you have to try & be rude? Its not true so its not an insult, but it does show how weak your arguments are. The Church is the Ark of Salvation no doubt about it. Unfortunately Protestantism has abandoned the idea of the Church because of the heresey of denominationalism. Can people be saved outside of the Orthodox Church? Maybe but one thing is for sure. The Orthodox Church contains the fulness of everything God has for the Believer, so yes you might be saved but God has much more for you
If you are happy with what you have in Protestantism and it satisfies you, fine!! No problem. It does not suit me and given that Orthodoxy is the fastest growing Christian group in both Britain and America-mostly evangelicals coming aboard, Protestantism does not suit a growing number of Christians either
You serve a system, Our Lord said 'I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it' He didnt say 'I will build my Church but not for another 1500 years when I will send a guy called Luther and another called Calvin along'. Think which Church has been around since the Day of Pentecost and which has been around for only 500 years and then think about what Jesus said
"you shall judge them by their fruits" Stop claiming your "universal truth" when most of Bible translations in the world's languages are made by protestants. You completely lost the command of going into the world! And yes, one example is the fact that the SECOND largest orthodox country barely had it's Bible translated in the early 1700's. How many Orthodoxes misionaries are in the muslim world? i can count you at least 30 protestants that i know! see how you lost what's truly important?
Many Orthodox Churches are actually based in the Muslim world-Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople/Istanbul. Jersualem is a divided city with a massive Muslim Arab population. Need I go on?
You gave me a big laugh! I never asked you if there are Orthodox Churches in various parts of the world! I know they are. But what is the point to open a church in Bagdad and hold services to empty seats? And yet you call this fulfilling of the Great Commendment? The Great Commendment means leaving your home and going to India, Kenya, Egipt, put your life at risk for spreading the Gospel! Not holding empty services for no one to hear! This is where you get deceived!
Bagdad? Any Church in Bagdad is empty now thanks to that redneck fundamentalist George W Bush. In Sadham Hussein's day Christians were tolerated, since Bush went in, the persecution of Christians has risen, virtually ending the existence of the Ancient Assyrian Church of the East, who have fled to the West sadly.
The Church has been in India and Egypt since the Days of the Apostles-Thomas to India and Mark to Egypt, so why send missionaries when the Church is already there?
Bagdad, Jakarta, New Delhi, Wherever, it was just an example! So, once a misionary went there, 2000 years ago, that means you've done your job??? And you think that if "the Church" is there is enough??? Boy, you really REALLY got deceived! What about the millions of people that never heard the Gospel? Do you think is of ANY help the fact that Thomas or Mark visited those places 2000 yrs ago? I'd laugh if it weren't that sad! I know some 20 misionaries that risk their lives NOW in those places!
Listen, in how many world languages had the Orthodox Church translated the Bible in these 2000 years? Why is it that the most translating work is done by protestants?Doesn't this ring any alarm bell?Or you just hide your failure behind the apostles trips! And maybe just open a church in Tokyo so that you can mark just another "christianised" nation! Eh, nevermind that the church is empty: "The Church is there" is the slogan that puts your mind at ease and the Lord should really be impressed!
Actually everywhere the Orthodox Church goes the Scriptures and the Liturgy are translated into the Venacular. Protestants have only been around for 500 years, the Orthodox for 2000 years. Who do you think not only wrote the New Testament but arranged for its translation into Russian, Serbian, Romanian, English etc in the first millenium?
You are ignorant! Go document yourself about when did the Romanians FINALLY had the Bible translated in their own language! So you say that once you open an Orthodox Church in a town, you've done your work? Why then was Filip commended to RUN and reach PERSONALLY the etiopian eunuc? Why didn't the Lord commend the apostles to open churches instead of GOING to people? An empty church is as good as no church at all, as long as people are not touched. You believe silly things, my friend.
You see you dont really understand. You reflect the poor ecclesiology of uneducated Protestants. The Church is a gathering of God's people-where two or three are gathered in My Name. The writer of Hebrews tells us 'not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together'. I believe the Bible-if you think the BIble is a 'silly thing' then you need to repent
The Church is the Body of Christ, so yes it is enough, Jesus said "If I be lifted up I will draw all men to Myself",
Missionaries need to go where Christ is not proclaimed not to poach from other Churches. Its time Evangelicals grew up and stopped thinking they and they alone are right
Really now? Listen, the same God that forbids killing, also commended Israel to KILL all their enemies! And yet, no one sees this as giving license to simply kill his enemies. Why then, God's exceptions (the Ark, the Temple) are taken and used as pretexts to bring in pagan practices in church? Because there is a perfect identity between the two situations 1. God gives a command. 2. God gives a second, contrary to the first, command. He can do that, since He is sovereign.
But that dosen't give me the right to further carry on and extend the aplication of the principle of exception to the place where it becomes common practice. Because I'm not God. And if God deciedes to loop one of His commands, that's HIS prerogative. I cannot be that arrogant as to come to Him and say: well, because then You did things like this, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA to make it permanent...though i know you NEVER commended it to be permanent, and you commands are clear to me!
HELLOOO! What does ANY mean to you??? It does not allow for interpretations! It sais that you should NEVER employ images in your worship! And who, if not Satan, gives you the right to change what once God said?? Isn't this Satan's old trick, even since the Garden, to come and say: Did really God say that? or: yes, He might have said that, BUT maybe He didn't mean it like that! See why YOU are obeying Satan by twisting and relativising God's clear commands! If God says NO, it's NO!
Well well well, we're talking about the SECOND largest Orthodox country, in case you didn't know! So, you can't simply dismiss it by saying "it's your business"! And yes, it is the Churches fault, for it shows in it's splendor the total indifference regarding the simple people! All that it mattered was the services 2 b held in the "third holy language", i.e. slavic. So much attention they paied on a useless thing, not 2 mention the harm was made by keeping people away from Scriptures!
Those 20 times are enough for me, thank you! I do not RISK my eternity believing teachings against what the Lord said in those 20 quotations. For i need to stay away from whatever it SEEMS wrong, and worshipping idols and burning incense in front of graven images is as pagan as it was 2000 years ago with ancient gods. Regardless of how you present it. Orthodoxy is a pagan religion with christian figures, just a change of characters, as i've said before. There's virtually no difference!
You can't follow-up your own ideas. Let me help, you need it! You said that because Orthodoxy is 2000 years old and protestantism is 500 years old, hence, Orthodoxy is better. So, old=good, new=wrong. And I come and say: When Christianity appeared in this world, everyone could have used this argument against it, since the world had thousands-of-years-old religions that could claim that argument against it. And yet Christianity prevailed, hence your argument is wrong :)
OH! So that's why they post the PRICES LIST(!!!) on the door of the churches, saying how much it costs for every service the priest will perform. That is to say: WE WILL NOT PRAY FOR YOU UNLESS YOU PAY US! likewise with funerals, baptism, weddings...ANYTHING! Just like in any store! Your example with the old lady is to say that it matters the heart and motivation, not the amount of money you pour, for the same Lord rebuked the pharisees for giving money with the wrong motivation.
"Thou shalt not make for yourself a graven image, or ANY likeness of ANYthing that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt NOT BOW DOWN to them, or serve them" God. Judge for yourself, for that's why God gave you a head and brain. Using them is optional!
Do you know, in Romania, for centuries, the language used in church was slavic? A language that NOT EVEN THE PRIEST KNEW, let alone the people! And this lasted several centuries! The priest were simply mumbling some un-understandable words just to fake a church service! FACTS my dear Adonimos! And that Romanian language was intruduced in church only in the late 1700's! Thank GOD i didn't live in those days when the Word of God would've been totally denied to me. And you take on M. Luther!:))
But what you choose not to see is that protestantism returns to the Christianity that the apostoles saw from Christ! No fancy huge cathedrals, no distance between the clergy and people, no "mistery" during service! What kind of Lithugy did the Lord hold on the Sermon on the Mount? Wasn't it a good old protestant sermon? Spoken bluntly, right in the people's language, so that EVERYONE can EASILY understand? Seduced by cohabitation with the secular state, you lost your way!
Not by the demands of the state-payed institution called Orthodox Church!And I judge even the Orthodox Church by IT'S OWN standards, i.e. the Bible. And it falls short! I have no problem with the book of St. James. And if the historical duration of a religion as an argument to reject any new doctrine, may I suggest that Christianity itself shouldn't have had any chance since it appeared in a world that already had thousands-of-years-old religions! See how stupid your point it?
So Jesus healed for money, fed the hunger for money, rose Lasarus from the dead, FOR MONEY, asked for money at the sermont on the Mount. And He also painted icons? Wait untill i laugh about an hour or so! You answerred YES to all these....you shock me with your blindness. The Bible came to be in a time when the Holy Spirit wasn't banished out of the orthodox church. And the criteria by which the canonisation was made are correct.Therefore i do live my life by the Bible!
Adonimos, can u be more idiot than this? Who said abt Christ coming only 500 years ago? I do believe the Word of God, i.e. the Bible! YOU orthodoxes have put loads of extra teachings that were not there in the early years! That's why U are away from the truth! Did Jesus paint icons? Did Jesus sang a lithurgy? did Jesus have poeple kiss "saint's" bones? Did Jesus wear fancy priesthood clothes? Did Jesus ask for MONEY in excange for spiritual services? AS THEY DO in orthodox churches! U get me?
And the falling away from the truth began when church started looking at pagan cults in order to take over some of their practices, so that the ordinary people won't find it too hard to follow the new, official religion, that's when your beloved orthodoxy lost the way. Protestantism returns to the origins, not to interpretations of the origins! And you are a very ignorant person: we protestants aren't atheists, we believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, and His words. ONLY in his words! See the point?
...so here comes protestantism, making justice and bringing the Gospel closer to people! No complicated lithurgy, no intimidating preisthood clothes & priesthood of all believers, JUST AS THE LORD LEFT IT! I say it and i maintain it: Orthodoxy is so full of pagan influences that it can't justify it's claim to be a christian faith. It's just too much paganism there, regardless of the lovely arguments that support it. I choose to believe the LORD, not what people make out of His words!
...and smoke during a service that they have not a clue what it's all about???and you call this right? Did you ever thought that protestantism might have been God's solution to a decayed humanity emerging out of a very dark age? Too scandalous for you. I ask you again: when did the Lord EVER sang a lithurgy to the disciples? When did He EVER dress them up in fancy, shiny garments? When did He ever commend that we hold liturgies in church in a way that ordinary people can't understand?
This is a very infantile atempt to point the idea that protestants are all bad, ego-worshipers, while orthotoxes are all just angelic and pure. Rubbish! Let me ask you this: if Orthodoxy is as wonderful as you present it, why does it fail the "reality" test? Why are your churches EMPTY? Why, in Romania where some 85% of them declare themselves as Orthodox, all the churches are empty? where are all those 85%??? why do they come at church only at Christmas and Easter and then only to sit out
Adonimos, read this: A friend went to study Orthodox Theology...and came out of it simply disgusted at the corruption and lack of morals! He would've had to PAY in order to receive a "good" parish! You hear me??? It's called bribe! An that in order to receive the "grace" of priesthood and share "rightly" the word of truth? Not to mention the fact that prices differ from parish to parish: there are "rich" parishes that cost more, and "poorer" parishes, that cost less. Now he works in a bookstore.
Because the new state religion (when did the Lord commended for Christianity to became "state religion"??) so, the new official religion needed to look credible to the vast pagan majority. that's why we had a flood of "wonders" and artefacts from Jerusalem. Need I to remind you of the very lucrative asspect of the busniess also? Oh, sorry, did i mention business? Right! Perfect word! They manufacture saint's bones out of cardboart in Romania, did you know? and people flock to kiss them! SLAVERY!
And, to make things clear, christianity as as the Lord gave it to the disciplies and all waht you need to know about it is ONLY in the Bible! Not fairytales and later changes! How come only after 313AD (when Church began adopting pagan images, clothing and preisthood, and started it's disastruous cohabitation with the state)there were "miraculously" found either the "hoy sepulcre" bits of the "holy cross" and WOW, even the nails and the hammer that were used at crucifixion! You know why?
I see one of my posts wasn't uploaded, nevermind. So, I am an atheist! Thank you v. much for the compliment, this puts me in the same category as Socrates, which was sentinced to death for not believeing in the city's gods! I do not believe in the Orthodox gods! Regardless if you call them saints or whatever, They're still "smaller gods" with limited power & authority, just like in ancient times! And yes, Orthodoxy is about slavery at it's worst meaning,regardless of how you choose to present it
Oh, that's what "Holy Tradition" teaches us! Like, sudden discoveries, with GPS precision, made some 300 years later!? If anything "The Holy Orthodox Church" is as pagan as any ancient pagan cult! There's simply a multitude of deities under the form of Saint X,Y and Z. No difference between you and the idol-worshipping religions of the past! They just don't call them Zeus, Jupiter or Minerva, but St. George, St.Patrick, or Mother Mary(to replace the feminice gods) You are just too blind to see!
I don't have to go there and see for myself. I haven't seen the Lord's resurection for myself and yet I do believe in it. So, i can make my own opinion even from distance, and from solid evidences pointing that all this is just a scam of the "Holy Orthodox Church" just to keep people in spiritual slavery, and of course, make a lot of money. So what if a torch ignites by itself? What does that have to do with the Lord? Oh, is it because that is "the true tomb" where the Lord was laied? Says who?
Spelling observance is optional :P My dear Adonimos, superstition is ALWAYS stupid! And Orthodoxy is all about SUPERSTITION and keeping people in boundage. The "Holy Light" is nothing but self ignition of the white phosphorus being used in manufacturing the torches that are sold in Jerusalem. Also, the white phosphorus flame is not hot, therefore, it does not (miraculously???) burn the skin. You turned divinty into show, while God is never about show!
years ago they didnt let the orthodox patriarch to be in the temple during the following so the light wasnt coming!
He was praying outside the temple near a column which sudenly craked by the light in front of him! many people saw what happend and a moslem said ''christians god is the real god'' .
You know what i'll do? I'll go there, one year, and hold TWO candles! One i'll bring along with me, from my country, and the other one i'll buy from Jerusalem. If my homebought candle won't light up...that means I don't have enough faith (I am a Romanian protestant :D ) But if the one i bought there lights up while the one i got from home dosen't...then, it's all clear! :)) It means half of me has faith, while the ther half dosen't! :))) Wake up people and stop believing stupid things!
first of all miracles do happen perhaps you have no faith its not strong enough. At times God tests us. This is real the fire they get every year from his tomb and say Christ is risen
So, let's understand better. Ortodx Christianity is the Christian religion as Jesus Christ gave it to people. The Western European, separated from Ortodox Christianity and invented a new religion named Catholic Church. From Catholic Church others made the Protestant religion. The Catholic and the Protestants killed millions of people in the name of "religion", including millions of Ortodox Christians, in the name of the religion created by themselves, not by God.
the great wonder is not the fact that the light is not burning(and is true) but the resurrection of Jesus Christ is the wonder and the light which comes from the heaven.
The Holly light is a miracle wich happens each years since Emperor Constantin built the Church.
This happens only at the Ortodox Christian Eastern, and all the Christian Faith send their people to watch that, the Pope in Rome also send his representants to wach it. Inside of the church there is no source of fire, and Israelian Police is controlling all the people present there to not have a source of light.
I grow up thats why I dont believe in fairy tails and miracles. I know why you insist to believe it is true, to make your self fill you are not alone in this life and there is force of good.
The Sad Truth is that the world is cruel and dark, horible place its all ruined because of the mistake of the nature wich called Humans.
Death is The End of the line. you better try live as best as you can, and not search for fake miracles in the midlle.
After you will be able to reproduce what is happening each year at the Ortodox Christian Eastern, than you will be allowed to talk about the subject.Until than you are just a troubled teen believing in the dark forces. FYI there is no dark, without light, there is no evil without God, there is no death, without life.
Life is a miracle, and unfortunately materialistic people like you destroy it.
Religion is the main reason for wars and world domination. I will never forgive you for the Incvizition, death of inocent people even children. need to destory all the religions. they bring only death and evil to humanity.
What are you talking about? Inquisition?I told you to grrow up first and to speak later, Inquisition has nothing to do with the Ortodox Christianity. Ortodox Chrisitianity is the Christian religion, as Jesus Christ gave it to the people. We,the Ortodox Christians never started a war against anybody and we never killed other people.
The one who are killing other people, using different motivation for that, like religion, humanism and so on,are the people from Western Europe.
you confuse the great religion named christianity with the people.a human who follow the christianity can be just a very good person.what is more than forgiving even your enemies?those who killed,were out of the aim of christianity.
with the Hooly Light u dont get burn for the first 30 minutes there, the flame doesnt burn, i know that cause i have been there, and if i wasnt telling the truth every year all the ppl there would get fire... also the candles light up from themselves..!!
Though I am catholic, I think this is a ridiculous scam. Why do you think, according to the BBC this morning "the source of the flame is shrouded in great secrecy." It's shrouded because it's a pack of matches. If it was true, they wouldn't forbid a camera entering the chamber. That being said, its at least good that it gives people faith, but why fabricate things like this? Is the church afraid of losing power?
bbc,nbc,euronews are all against of christianity.doesn't matter if the light comes to ortodox,important is there it happen miracles.if you dont believe that the light open alone,you should believe that some times the people candles light alone.
That's why Orthodox is a single true faith, is the first christian church from the world until 1054. Just here holly light come from the sky not at to other religious.
ok, lets put things in an order. for the papers, i am christian too, but this is a nice long lasting trick. otherwise the armenian patriarch wouldnt go to israeli political courts claiming the right to the light. all this along with a lot of mouslim theories is a bunch of crab. just be a good person and try to help others if you can. the rest is only bullshitt
dinoaxd 2 years ago
@dinoaxd Sorry this is no trick, the Holy Light has been appearing for centuries. It always happens on Pascha-what you would refer to as Easter, according to the old Julian calendar. Interestingly enough, when there have been Christians from other confessions there, it is only the Orthodox whose candles light miraculously, other confessions have theirs lit from Orthodox candles
Paul020253 2 years ago
By the way, we Muslims pray for no light ... what a funny statement by the one who posted this video....
We do not think Jerusalem in Sacred place because of a light or even because of how many profits lived there, it is because of the fact that the doom day will start from there. We believe it is the spot where all human will be judged and sent to havens or hell .
44556666677 2 years ago
Precisely for those reasons-to show anyone else who might read the postings that not all Christians are wacko but there is a faith which has remained unchanged since the time of Christ
In Peace
Paul
Paul020253 2 years ago
'In times past, God, without body and form could in no way be represented. But now since God has appeared in flesh and lived among men, I can depict that which is visible of God. I do not venerate matter, but I venerate the creator of matter, who became matter for me, who condescended to live in matter, and who through matter accomplished my salvation; and I do not cease to respect the matter through which my salvation is accomplished.'
St John of Damascus
Paul020253 2 years ago
What a bunch of retards. Reminds me of snake handlers.
Deathrape2001 2 years ago
I read Colossians 1:15 and yet i fail to see the COMMAND of using Lord's image, or any image in worship! Furthermore, who can tell for sure that the Lord actually LOOKED like that? For if He is the image, and image is important, then i want to worship the RIGHT image, not who-knows-who's face!!! Till then, i'll stick to the commendments, for they are much to clear for me to accept Satan's vioce, as Adam once did when he was told: "oh, did God really meant that?" YES idiot! GOD REALLY MEANT THAT!
carabushul 2 years ago
Thank you for your name calling, it tells us where you are at. No True Christian would resort to that kind of behaviour. No-one claims that icons show what Christ looked like. The Gospels are not biography but there to teach us the way of salvation so icons are written to teach us more about what it means to be a Christian
Paul020253 2 years ago
The Lord is the Truth, and those 20 quotation in the Bible are ENOUGH for me! Because, if it were as you say, then why can't ANYONE pretend that the Lord actually accepted, let's say...homosexuality? Eh, nevermind that it's not found in the Bible, who sais that ALL the Lord's words are there? Maybe He expressed that once but they failed to write it down. See how dangerous this path is, my friend? In this way, EVERYTHING could be justified with some, unrecorded, words of the Lord. Icons included!
carabushul 2 years ago
Boy, you do sound like a taliban, you know? I will refuse you this satisfation. All I will tell is that I am a Christian, as i see the Christians in the Bible. For God gave me this little brain to see how they worshipped in the early days, and simply follow their example. And not to believe Satan-like interpretations and twisting of crystal-clear commendments. And not to blindfully obey a state-institution called Orthodox Church.
carabushul 2 years ago
By the way, do you know that an Orthodox bishop is to be prosecuted in Romania, for asking money in order to accept certain students at the Orthodox seminary in Bucharest? How about THIS for a lovely fruit of the Holy Orthodox Church? At least they're consistent: they ask for money even in the early stages, so that the students have a clear idea of how things work in this business. Is this the unity you obsesivelly keep reminding me of? Thanks, but no thanks!
carabushul 2 years ago
Sounds like the same as when I went to a Protestant Bible College-fancy having to pay for something!!! I certainly did. No wonder they call America the land of the FREE!!!
Paul020253 2 years ago
The Early Christians were Jewish converts who would have worshipped originally in the synagogues-clearly Our Lord did this during His time on earth. After His Death and Resurrection, the Acts make it clear that Disciples followed the same pattern but with emphasis on Our Lord's fulfilment of Messianic Prophecy.Acts 3v1. Clearly they were not into a charismatic free for all
Paul020253 2 years ago
A new friend! Okay, so you say BRIBE is allright? There is a difference between paying an academical institution for some tutoring, any academical institution, and HAVING TO PAY for spiritual services provided by an institution that, according to it's own standards, should not require money as a condition for those services. To add to the hipocrisy, the same institution claims to be the only one entitled to provide those services. Yes, I am talking about the Orthodox Church.
carabushul 2 years ago
So are you telling me that in America if I require the services of a clergyman for, say, a weddding or a funeral, it is free of charge? I doubt it given that in America you even have to pay for your health service. When my parents died I paid the ministers for their service as I did when I got married. You are either incredibly naive or a consumate liar. I hope it is the former
Paul020253 2 years ago
My friend, as lovely as Orthodoxy might look in theory, i see the disater it brought in Romania. It's like communism: lovely on paper, disastruous in practice (read: fruits) Do you know that in Romania (the second largest Orthodox country) they would sacrifice chicken to appease the spirit of the land before building a house? And that 85% of people call themselves orthodox but they involve God's name in some of the worst swears i've ever heard? Here including sexual refferences towards Christ!!!
carabushul 2 years ago
I would invite over to see/hear for youself, although my perverted protestant conscience would stop me from literarly translate all of them! And yet they call themselves Orthodox! And I ask again: why are the Othodox churches empty? And the problem with paying is, just as I said and you deceitfully avioded it, is the hypocrisy that lies in the fact that the institution that claims exclusivity, also asks for money for the same services. There's no alternative, you HAVE to pay them.
carabushul 2 years ago
Im glad you recognise your protestant conscience is perverted, that is a good sign.
Many Churches are empty-in Britain people buy old churches to live in. It is due to two things-1) atheistic attack in the media 2) fundamentalist attack on Ancient Christianity.
How often is the 'church' you attend full? 24/7? I doubt it, in fact I know its not. At least Orthodox Churches are open so that people can go in & pray.
Why shouldnt you pay the priest ? how is he supposed to eat?
Paul020253 2 years ago
It was "perverted" but you failed to understand. The reason I'm rising the attendance issue is that I see Orthodox churches courtyards full, only at Easter and Christmas, and even then people stand in the court, smoking, joking, having not a clue about what's going on there, I participaded at some! And the rest of the year: EMPTY! And yet, those people call themseves Orthodox. At least protestants GO at church if they call themselves like that! And since when people need a "church" to go pray?
carabushul 2 years ago
Oh, is it because is "holy"? The Lord didn't pray at the Temple, He prayed in the mountains, for instance. Orthodoxy simply keeps people in the same boundage the priest were holding men in the Lord's times! You know, I have a homeless person working for me, and, more often than not, he's not working! It's a holiday, he sais, it's some Saints day! And his girl friend just had an abortion, and he also steals of me, and he smokes, and he drinks. Heck! He's the usual Orthodox I see every day!
carabushul 2 years ago
Actually the Lord did pray in the Temple, he kept the Jewish calendar. Check out Acts-Peter and John went to the Temple at the Hour of Prayer and healed the man born blind.
If this man is homeless give him a home-why not give him yours?, if you are a better Christian than he is, give him yours and let God meet your needs.
Paul020253 2 years ago
As if you would know, the Lord had a total disregard for buildings mafe "for Him". As I recall, He had some of His most intense spiritual moments in the wild or in the garden. Funny, He needed no massive, "holy" church building. I am waiting for you 2 let me know if u gave all your money, clothes and personal belongings to the poor. Then I will congratulate you and keep renting my houses, and THEN help the poor! Why give my house to someone that will AGAIN lose it the next day to the bank?
carabushul 2 years ago
So as I thought you are all BS. If you area real Christian you would help some one in trouble. The Good samaritan never thought on those lines. You have a form of godliness but you deny it s power
Paul020253 2 years ago
BS? Blessed and sanctified? Thank you! You are manipulative just as any good orthodox priest would be! Bear in mind that the good samaritan put the man on his donkey! It's dosen't say the he gave the donkey to the man in trouble! How do you know I don't help people in trouble?How do you know what or how much I did for those homeless guys? I will not tell you, for I didn't do it for some orthodox self richeous fellow's praises! Who gives you the right to judge? This conversation ends here!
carabushul 2 years ago
The Good Samaritan poured in oil and wine to heal him then took him to an inn and paid for his mediacl care until he was healed and on his feet again. Seems to me you wont help people you dont like, doesnt your BIble say something about doing good to those who despitefully use you? Mine does,
Paul020253 2 years ago
the church is the body of Christ-check out 1 Corinthians- Christ said He would build His Church and the Gates of Hell would not prevail against it (Mt 16v18) Ask yourself which Church? A Protestant one which has been around for five hundred years or the Orthodox which has been around since the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2v1)?
What people do with the opportunities God gives them is their responsibility. It is not your business or mine. The Church is there for the people when they are ready.
Paul020253 2 years ago
I've heard time&time again this silly argument about the ancienty of Orthodoxy. The exact argument could've been used against Christianity 2000 yrs ago! For the world had millennium-old religions by then too! And bear in mind that Orthodoxy, as you know it is NOT 2000 yrs old! Don't deceive yourself in believing that this is the worship pattern that the Lord used or left for us to schizofrenically follow! I see nowhere the Lord singing any lithurgy, do you? Levitical priesthood?We ALL r priests!
carabushul 2 years ago
I am afraid its not silly, Ignatius, Clement and Polycarp who were all disciples of the Apostles (in particular Peter, Paul and John in that order) all describe the practices of the Early Christian Church which are identical to the Orthodox Church and unidentical to the Protestant Reformed Church. Justin Martyr writing in 175ad describes a Christian service identical to the one I was in when your email arrived (I assume you wernt in Church). The Apostolic Constitutions of the 4th century TBC
Paul020253 2 years ago
describe Christian services of the 3rd century-the Orthodox Liturgy is clearly rooted in those services, so yes Orthodoxy can trace itself back to the early Churches. You just have to be a half decent scholar to see it.
Jesus is clearly used to worshipping in both the Temple and the Synagogue-a cursory reading of any gospel will show you that-may I suggest you start off with Luke 4v14-17
Paul020253 2 years ago
Well, i'm decent enough to follow the Lord's pattern and need nothing in my worhip! If people cemented one form of worship, and started implementing forbiden components (yes, images!) and disguised pagan gods into christian figures, so that the new religion will be more appealing to the mob, once Christianity became official state religion, well then, I'll leave it to them. I'm decent enough not to twist God's crystal-clear commands!
carabushul 2 years ago
Dont tell me you another disciple of Jack Chick. Rofl. It is a pity that when you were in an Orthodox Church you didnt listen to what the Priest was saying, you might have experienced something of God a lot earlier
Paul020253 2 years ago
Actually I know a lot about Romania, more than you that is clear. I know personally of three Romanian priests in my area who have established FOUR churches. I have even had lunch with the Bishop & guess what? The only chickens wern't sacrificed, they were bought from a supermarket, already killed and ready to cook!! They were delicious!! As was the other Romanian food and Romanian wine. The way it is going there will soon be many Orthodox Churches in Britain cos of Romania. Thank God for Romania
Paul020253 2 years ago
You are very arrogant. I've lived in Romania all of my life (30 yrs) and u claim you know about my country more than I do? As for the chickens, I'm sorry you mock a very serious issue: that of pagan practices allowed by the Orthodox Church. I am just sick of all their rituals and glamour. They're nothing but painted graves! These days ppl were flocking to kiss some saints bones in my town. For luck one said. You hear me? "Christians" talking about luck! Is there such a thing called luck???
carabushul 2 years ago
Fine if you dont like Orthodox worship that is ok, I dont like Protestant worship-last time I went to Protestant service it was like a Rock Concert. I go to Church to worship God, not be entertained and bop. If you prefer Rock Concerts to true worship, no problem, but I found something special in the Orthodox Church that was missing from Protestant Christianity-a Real Sense of the Presence of God
Paul020253 2 years ago
Aham, so sacrificing chicken in order to appease the spirit of the land, with the blessing of the priest, is part of Orthodox worship?Funny,u found a "Real Sense of the Presence of God" but no sense at all of paganism. Disguised paganism! And don't tell me that IF YOU WANTED u wouldn't have found a decent protestant church, as i did! And once "2 or 3 are gatherred in His name" I don't need to SENSE the presence, I KNOW He's there, for so He said. I wouldn't trust my spiritual life to "sensing"!
carabushul 2 years ago
Interestingly enough the deacon of the parish I attend went to Romania for a wedding-our local Romanian Vice-Consul was getting married. He went with the Orthodox Priest from Leeds-and guess what NO CHICKENS being sacrificed!!!
So, 3 Romanian Priests in Britain, 1 Bishop, 4 Parishes plus 1 English Deacon and 1 English Priest to Romania=NO CHICKENS sacrificed.
1 Renegade Orthodox who hates Orthodoxy knows of a chicken being sacrificed.
Who will the ordinary man believe?
I wonder.....
Paul020253 2 years ago
Why talk about ordinary man when it takes somewhat of a scholar to understand Orthodoxy? Listen dude, ALL I need to know about and for Salvation is in the Lord's words! NOTHING else, for nothing else was preached by Peter in the day of Pentecost or Filip to the eunuc or Peter to Cornelius! OR THE LORD HIMSELF TO THE DISCIPLES! You believe a system, I believe the Lord that is not and cannot be contained in a system! You go on and serve Orthodoxy, and make confusion between a religion and the Lord
carabushul 2 years ago
This is my last statement here, i would give you my email adress, but I see this site dosen't allow it. It is avocat.matei at the world's most known instant mail provider.
carabushul 2 years ago
Ha, it worked! i'm proud of my twisted protestant thinking! :))))))))
carabushul 2 years ago
What is it with you fundamentalists? Why do you think you have got the monopoly on salvation? Why do you all feel the need to be rude to other Christians? It's always the same reaction when you guys cant get your own way!! As I said earlier I found something in Orthodoxy of God I had not found in Western Christianity.
Paul020253 2 years ago
I'd rather have an idol-worshipper call me fundamentalist, than God Almighty sending me to hell for purposely disobeing His command regarding idols. And bear in mind, that we protestans DO NOT consider we have monopoly on salvation! It's rather the opposite, with the "Holy Orthodox Church" considerring that there is no salvation outside the Orthodox Church. I say what Peter said:"in every nation, any one who fears Him and does what is right is acceptable to Him" Does it name a specific church?
carabushul 2 years ago
So, my dear idol-worshipper, candle burner, and spiritual gymnast, salvation comes like this: believe in the divinity of our Lord and His sacrifice. PERIOD! Of course, good works come as a consequence. If you let yourself deceived in believing that you have to belong to a state-paied institution calld Orthodox Church Inc. in order to get saved, then I'm sorry for you. I belong to the church which said that "you are temples of the Holy Spirit" and "where 2 or 3..." I need no ritual assurance!
carabushul 2 years ago
But a religion that misleads people by pretending that the Holy Spirit is given by annointing one why oil, or that baptises children, when the oder is:first belive, then get baptised (yeah, i know all the bla-bla with the god-parents taking the oath in the name of the child...btw, did you know that, usually, the god-parents are chosen based on their financial status? guess not) and that claims money for services they pretend to have exclusivity for. Lovely picture of the Lord's legacy!
carabushul 2 years ago
I'm not saying protestantism is all right and u don't find tears there also. But is definetly not falling it's standards as short as the Orthodox does! And the claim that the Orthodox councils gave us the Bible dosen't excuse the paganisation and the falling away from the truth! Is like Romania's MP's. They issue the law, and they are the first to break it. Imagine them yelling in their defence: Hey mob, why pick on us? Who gave u these laws in the first place?Hilarious?Read: Orthodox Church!
carabushul 2 years ago
I have read The Orthodox Church-I have even met Metropolitan Kallistos who . wrote it. There is no paganism in the Orthodox Church, you have been hoodwinked by Protestants who are probably American and dont like Europeans and have filled your head with lies
Paul020253 2 years ago
well bad news for all my five godchildren, I am a poor man!!! And please check your BIble before you make any more incorrect comments about anointing with oil-try the Book of James, the book the Protestant leader Martin Luther tried to get thrown out of the New Testament.
Paul020253 2 years ago
State-paied institution? No Christian body is paid for by the State Please do yourself a favour and get your facts right, you only make a fool of yourself
" I belong to the church which said that "you are temples of the Holy Spirit" and "where 2 or 3..." so you are Orthodox, that is what the Orthodox Bible says
Paul020253 2 years ago
There is only one Church-Jesus said 'I will build My Church and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it'. Which of the 2000 Protestant denominations was He referring to?
Paul020253 2 years ago
Why do you have to try & be rude? Its not true so its not an insult, but it does show how weak your arguments are. The Church is the Ark of Salvation no doubt about it. Unfortunately Protestantism has abandoned the idea of the Church because of the heresey of denominationalism. Can people be saved outside of the Orthodox Church? Maybe but one thing is for sure. The Orthodox Church contains the fulness of everything God has for the Believer, so yes you might be saved but God has much more for you
Paul020253 2 years ago
If you are happy with what you have in Protestantism and it satisfies you, fine!! No problem. It does not suit me and given that Orthodoxy is the fastest growing Christian group in both Britain and America-mostly evangelicals coming aboard, Protestantism does not suit a growing number of Christians either
Paul020253 2 years ago
You serve a system, Our Lord said 'I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it' He didnt say 'I will build my Church but not for another 1500 years when I will send a guy called Luther and another called Calvin along'. Think which Church has been around since the Day of Pentecost and which has been around for only 500 years and then think about what Jesus said
Paul020253 2 years ago
Why do you object to paying a clergyman? 1 Cor 9 seems to indicate otherwise especially v 10, 11 & v14
Paul020253 2 years ago
"you shall judge them by their fruits" Stop claiming your "universal truth" when most of Bible translations in the world's languages are made by protestants. You completely lost the command of going into the world! And yes, one example is the fact that the SECOND largest orthodox country barely had it's Bible translated in the early 1700's. How many Orthodoxes misionaries are in the muslim world? i can count you at least 30 protestants that i know! see how you lost what's truly important?
carabushul 2 years ago
Many Orthodox Churches are actually based in the Muslim world-Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople/Istanbul. Jersualem is a divided city with a massive Muslim Arab population. Need I go on?
Paul020253 2 years ago
You gave me a big laugh! I never asked you if there are Orthodox Churches in various parts of the world! I know they are. But what is the point to open a church in Bagdad and hold services to empty seats? And yet you call this fulfilling of the Great Commendment? The Great Commendment means leaving your home and going to India, Kenya, Egipt, put your life at risk for spreading the Gospel! Not holding empty services for no one to hear! This is where you get deceived!
carabushul 2 years ago
Bagdad? Any Church in Bagdad is empty now thanks to that redneck fundamentalist George W Bush. In Sadham Hussein's day Christians were tolerated, since Bush went in, the persecution of Christians has risen, virtually ending the existence of the Ancient Assyrian Church of the East, who have fled to the West sadly.
The Church has been in India and Egypt since the Days of the Apostles-Thomas to India and Mark to Egypt, so why send missionaries when the Church is already there?
Paul020253 2 years ago
Bagdad, Jakarta, New Delhi, Wherever, it was just an example! So, once a misionary went there, 2000 years ago, that means you've done your job??? And you think that if "the Church" is there is enough??? Boy, you really REALLY got deceived! What about the millions of people that never heard the Gospel? Do you think is of ANY help the fact that Thomas or Mark visited those places 2000 yrs ago? I'd laugh if it weren't that sad! I know some 20 misionaries that risk their lives NOW in those places!
carabushul 2 years ago
Listen, in how many world languages had the Orthodox Church translated the Bible in these 2000 years? Why is it that the most translating work is done by protestants?Doesn't this ring any alarm bell?Or you just hide your failure behind the apostles trips! And maybe just open a church in Tokyo so that you can mark just another "christianised" nation! Eh, nevermind that the church is empty: "The Church is there" is the slogan that puts your mind at ease and the Lord should really be impressed!
carabushul 2 years ago
Actually everywhere the Orthodox Church goes the Scriptures and the Liturgy are translated into the Venacular. Protestants have only been around for 500 years, the Orthodox for 2000 years. Who do you think not only wrote the New Testament but arranged for its translation into Russian, Serbian, Romanian, English etc in the first millenium?
Paul020253 2 years ago
You are ignorant! Go document yourself about when did the Romanians FINALLY had the Bible translated in their own language! So you say that once you open an Orthodox Church in a town, you've done your work? Why then was Filip commended to RUN and reach PERSONALLY the etiopian eunuc? Why didn't the Lord commend the apostles to open churches instead of GOING to people? An empty church is as good as no church at all, as long as people are not touched. You believe silly things, my friend.
carabushul 2 years ago
You see you dont really understand. You reflect the poor ecclesiology of uneducated Protestants. The Church is a gathering of God's people-where two or three are gathered in My Name. The writer of Hebrews tells us 'not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together'. I believe the Bible-if you think the BIble is a 'silly thing' then you need to repent
Paul020253 2 years ago
The Church is the Body of Christ, so yes it is enough, Jesus said "If I be lifted up I will draw all men to Myself",
Missionaries need to go where Christ is not proclaimed not to poach from other Churches. Its time Evangelicals grew up and stopped thinking they and they alone are right
Paul020253 2 years ago
Really now? Listen, the same God that forbids killing, also commended Israel to KILL all their enemies! And yet, no one sees this as giving license to simply kill his enemies. Why then, God's exceptions (the Ark, the Temple) are taken and used as pretexts to bring in pagan practices in church? Because there is a perfect identity between the two situations 1. God gives a command. 2. God gives a second, contrary to the first, command. He can do that, since He is sovereign.
carabushul 2 years ago
But that dosen't give me the right to further carry on and extend the aplication of the principle of exception to the place where it becomes common practice. Because I'm not God. And if God deciedes to loop one of His commands, that's HIS prerogative. I cannot be that arrogant as to come to Him and say: well, because then You did things like this, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA to make it permanent...though i know you NEVER commended it to be permanent, and you commands are clear to me!
carabushul 2 years ago
HELLOOO! What does ANY mean to you??? It does not allow for interpretations! It sais that you should NEVER employ images in your worship! And who, if not Satan, gives you the right to change what once God said?? Isn't this Satan's old trick, even since the Garden, to come and say: Did really God say that? or: yes, He might have said that, BUT maybe He didn't mean it like that! See why YOU are obeying Satan by twisting and relativising God's clear commands! If God says NO, it's NO!
carabushul 2 years ago
Well well well, we're talking about the SECOND largest Orthodox country, in case you didn't know! So, you can't simply dismiss it by saying "it's your business"! And yes, it is the Churches fault, for it shows in it's splendor the total indifference regarding the simple people! All that it mattered was the services 2 b held in the "third holy language", i.e. slavic. So much attention they paied on a useless thing, not 2 mention the harm was made by keeping people away from Scriptures!
carabushul 2 years ago
Those 20 times are enough for me, thank you! I do not RISK my eternity believing teachings against what the Lord said in those 20 quotations. For i need to stay away from whatever it SEEMS wrong, and worshipping idols and burning incense in front of graven images is as pagan as it was 2000 years ago with ancient gods. Regardless of how you present it. Orthodoxy is a pagan religion with christian figures, just a change of characters, as i've said before. There's virtually no difference!
carabushul 2 years ago
You can't follow-up your own ideas. Let me help, you need it! You said that because Orthodoxy is 2000 years old and protestantism is 500 years old, hence, Orthodoxy is better. So, old=good, new=wrong. And I come and say: When Christianity appeared in this world, everyone could have used this argument against it, since the world had thousands-of-years-old religions that could claim that argument against it. And yet Christianity prevailed, hence your argument is wrong :)
carabushul 2 years ago
OH! So that's why they post the PRICES LIST(!!!) on the door of the churches, saying how much it costs for every service the priest will perform. That is to say: WE WILL NOT PRAY FOR YOU UNLESS YOU PAY US! likewise with funerals, baptism, weddings...ANYTHING! Just like in any store! Your example with the old lady is to say that it matters the heart and motivation, not the amount of money you pour, for the same Lord rebuked the pharisees for giving money with the wrong motivation.
carabushul 2 years ago
"Thou shalt not make for yourself a graven image, or ANY likeness of ANYthing that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt NOT BOW DOWN to them, or serve them" God. Judge for yourself, for that's why God gave you a head and brain. Using them is optional!
carabushul 2 years ago
Do you know, in Romania, for centuries, the language used in church was slavic? A language that NOT EVEN THE PRIEST KNEW, let alone the people! And this lasted several centuries! The priest were simply mumbling some un-understandable words just to fake a church service! FACTS my dear Adonimos! And that Romanian language was intruduced in church only in the late 1700's! Thank GOD i didn't live in those days when the Word of God would've been totally denied to me. And you take on M. Luther!:))
carabushul 2 years ago
But what you choose not to see is that protestantism returns to the Christianity that the apostoles saw from Christ! No fancy huge cathedrals, no distance between the clergy and people, no "mistery" during service! What kind of Lithugy did the Lord hold on the Sermon on the Mount? Wasn't it a good old protestant sermon? Spoken bluntly, right in the people's language, so that EVERYONE can EASILY understand? Seduced by cohabitation with the secular state, you lost your way!
carabushul 2 years ago
Not by the demands of the state-payed institution called Orthodox Church!And I judge even the Orthodox Church by IT'S OWN standards, i.e. the Bible. And it falls short! I have no problem with the book of St. James. And if the historical duration of a religion as an argument to reject any new doctrine, may I suggest that Christianity itself shouldn't have had any chance since it appeared in a world that already had thousands-of-years-old religions! See how stupid your point it?
carabushul 2 years ago
So Jesus healed for money, fed the hunger for money, rose Lasarus from the dead, FOR MONEY, asked for money at the sermont on the Mount. And He also painted icons? Wait untill i laugh about an hour or so! You answerred YES to all these....you shock me with your blindness. The Bible came to be in a time when the Holy Spirit wasn't banished out of the orthodox church. And the criteria by which the canonisation was made are correct.Therefore i do live my life by the Bible!
carabushul 2 years ago
Adonimos, can u be more idiot than this? Who said abt Christ coming only 500 years ago? I do believe the Word of God, i.e. the Bible! YOU orthodoxes have put loads of extra teachings that were not there in the early years! That's why U are away from the truth! Did Jesus paint icons? Did Jesus sang a lithurgy? did Jesus have poeple kiss "saint's" bones? Did Jesus wear fancy priesthood clothes? Did Jesus ask for MONEY in excange for spiritual services? AS THEY DO in orthodox churches! U get me?
carabushul 2 years ago
And the falling away from the truth began when church started looking at pagan cults in order to take over some of their practices, so that the ordinary people won't find it too hard to follow the new, official religion, that's when your beloved orthodoxy lost the way. Protestantism returns to the origins, not to interpretations of the origins! And you are a very ignorant person: we protestants aren't atheists, we believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, and His words. ONLY in his words! See the point?
carabushul 2 years ago
...so here comes protestantism, making justice and bringing the Gospel closer to people! No complicated lithurgy, no intimidating preisthood clothes & priesthood of all believers, JUST AS THE LORD LEFT IT! I say it and i maintain it: Orthodoxy is so full of pagan influences that it can't justify it's claim to be a christian faith. It's just too much paganism there, regardless of the lovely arguments that support it. I choose to believe the LORD, not what people make out of His words!
carabushul 2 years ago
...and smoke during a service that they have not a clue what it's all about???and you call this right? Did you ever thought that protestantism might have been God's solution to a decayed humanity emerging out of a very dark age? Too scandalous for you. I ask you again: when did the Lord EVER sang a lithurgy to the disciples? When did He EVER dress them up in fancy, shiny garments? When did He ever commend that we hold liturgies in church in a way that ordinary people can't understand?
carabushul 2 years ago
This is a very infantile atempt to point the idea that protestants are all bad, ego-worshipers, while orthotoxes are all just angelic and pure. Rubbish! Let me ask you this: if Orthodoxy is as wonderful as you present it, why does it fail the "reality" test? Why are your churches EMPTY? Why, in Romania where some 85% of them declare themselves as Orthodox, all the churches are empty? where are all those 85%??? why do they come at church only at Christmas and Easter and then only to sit out
carabushul 2 years ago
Adonimos, read this: A friend went to study Orthodox Theology...and came out of it simply disgusted at the corruption and lack of morals! He would've had to PAY in order to receive a "good" parish! You hear me??? It's called bribe! An that in order to receive the "grace" of priesthood and share "rightly" the word of truth? Not to mention the fact that prices differ from parish to parish: there are "rich" parishes that cost more, and "poorer" parishes, that cost less. Now he works in a bookstore.
carabushul 2 years ago
Because the new state religion (when did the Lord commended for Christianity to became "state religion"??) so, the new official religion needed to look credible to the vast pagan majority. that's why we had a flood of "wonders" and artefacts from Jerusalem. Need I to remind you of the very lucrative asspect of the busniess also? Oh, sorry, did i mention business? Right! Perfect word! They manufacture saint's bones out of cardboart in Romania, did you know? and people flock to kiss them! SLAVERY!
carabushul 2 years ago
And, to make things clear, christianity as as the Lord gave it to the disciplies and all waht you need to know about it is ONLY in the Bible! Not fairytales and later changes! How come only after 313AD (when Church began adopting pagan images, clothing and preisthood, and started it's disastruous cohabitation with the state)there were "miraculously" found either the "hoy sepulcre" bits of the "holy cross" and WOW, even the nails and the hammer that were used at crucifixion! You know why?
carabushul 2 years ago
I see one of my posts wasn't uploaded, nevermind. So, I am an atheist! Thank you v. much for the compliment, this puts me in the same category as Socrates, which was sentinced to death for not believeing in the city's gods! I do not believe in the Orthodox gods! Regardless if you call them saints or whatever, They're still "smaller gods" with limited power & authority, just like in ancient times! And yes, Orthodoxy is about slavery at it's worst meaning,regardless of how you choose to present it
carabushul 2 years ago
Oh, that's what "Holy Tradition" teaches us! Like, sudden discoveries, with GPS precision, made some 300 years later!? If anything "The Holy Orthodox Church" is as pagan as any ancient pagan cult! There's simply a multitude of deities under the form of Saint X,Y and Z. No difference between you and the idol-worshipping religions of the past! They just don't call them Zeus, Jupiter or Minerva, but St. George, St.Patrick, or Mother Mary(to replace the feminice gods) You are just too blind to see!
carabushul 2 years ago
I don't have to go there and see for myself. I haven't seen the Lord's resurection for myself and yet I do believe in it. So, i can make my own opinion even from distance, and from solid evidences pointing that all this is just a scam of the "Holy Orthodox Church" just to keep people in spiritual slavery, and of course, make a lot of money. So what if a torch ignites by itself? What does that have to do with the Lord? Oh, is it because that is "the true tomb" where the Lord was laied? Says who?
carabushul 2 years ago
Spelling observance is optional :P My dear Adonimos, superstition is ALWAYS stupid! And Orthodoxy is all about SUPERSTITION and keeping people in boundage. The "Holy Light" is nothing but self ignition of the white phosphorus being used in manufacturing the torches that are sold in Jerusalem. Also, the white phosphorus flame is not hot, therefore, it does not (miraculously???) burn the skin. You turned divinty into show, while God is never about show!
carabushul 2 years ago
years ago they didnt let the orthodox patriarch to be in the temple during the following so the light wasnt coming!
He was praying outside the temple near a column which sudenly craked by the light in front of him! many people saw what happend and a moslem said ''christians god is the real god'' .
Jesus sawed us the Father!
sofiahatz 2 years ago 2
You know what i'll do? I'll go there, one year, and hold TWO candles! One i'll bring along with me, from my country, and the other one i'll buy from Jerusalem. If my homebought candle won't light up...that means I don't have enough faith (I am a Romanian protestant :D ) But if the one i bought there lights up while the one i got from home dosen't...then, it's all clear! :)) It means half of me has faith, while the ther half dosen't! :))) Wake up people and stop believing stupid things!
carabushul 2 years ago
GOD cannot be reprezented by a religion...this is stupid!
bulletpr00f13 2 years ago
Darkness is the absence of LIGHT... and death is the beginning of LIFE.
4yall 2 years ago 2
Whay GOD dont send holy fire to pope when he praying?
GREETINGS FROM ORTODOX SERBIA!
geostart 3 years ago 3
Come ye, take the light from the Light that is never overtaken by night. Come, glorify the Christ, risen from the dead.
EverythingZen14 3 years ago
first of all miracles do happen perhaps you have no faith its not strong enough. At times God tests us. This is real the fire they get every year from his tomb and say Christ is risen
lizzythegreek 3 years ago 3
By the way, who doesn't believe it should go there and see... Every year, Orthodox Easter
haidukul 3 years ago 6
So, let's understand better. Ortodx Christianity is the Christian religion as Jesus Christ gave it to people. The Western European, separated from Ortodox Christianity and invented a new religion named Catholic Church. From Catholic Church others made the Protestant religion. The Catholic and the Protestants killed millions of people in the name of "religion", including millions of Ortodox Christians, in the name of the religion created by themselves, not by God.
AndradaDaciana 4 years ago 8
I remember waiting to see it for the first time!"Great Fire, like Dragons breath coming out of nowhere, the fire is cold and not burning"
And when I sow this, Im like..."Holly Crap"
What the hell was that? did I missed something" no I didnt, just a cheap show for those who believe in every "^%$*"!
it will be funny to see someone burning there and saying Im OK! LOL
jaguar4u2 4 years ago
the great wonder is not the fact that the light is not burning(and is true) but the resurrection of Jesus Christ is the wonder and the light which comes from the heaven.
jardelle 4 years ago
Grow up first, and speak later.
The Holly light is a miracle wich happens each years since Emperor Constantin built the Church.
This happens only at the Ortodox Christian Eastern, and all the Christian Faith send their people to watch that, the Pope in Rome also send his representants to wach it. Inside of the church there is no source of fire, and Israelian Police is controlling all the people present there to not have a source of light.
AndradaDaciana 4 years ago
I grow up thats why I dont believe in fairy tails and miracles. I know why you insist to believe it is true, to make your self fill you are not alone in this life and there is force of good.
The Sad Truth is that the world is cruel and dark, horible place its all ruined because of the mistake of the nature wich called Humans.
Death is The End of the line. you better try live as best as you can, and not search for fake miracles in the midlle.
jaguar4u2 4 years ago
After you will be able to reproduce what is happening each year at the Ortodox Christian Eastern, than you will be allowed to talk about the subject.Until than you are just a troubled teen believing in the dark forces. FYI there is no dark, without light, there is no evil without God, there is no death, without life.
Life is a miracle, and unfortunately materialistic people like you destroy it.
AndradaDaciana 4 years ago
Actually people like you destroy it.
Religion is the main reason for wars and world domination. I will never forgive you for the Incvizition, death of inocent people even children. need to destory all the religions. they bring only death and evil to humanity.
jaguar4u2 4 years ago
What are you talking about? Inquisition?I told you to grrow up first and to speak later, Inquisition has nothing to do with the Ortodox Christianity. Ortodox Chrisitianity is the Christian religion, as Jesus Christ gave it to the people. We,the Ortodox Christians never started a war against anybody and we never killed other people.
The one who are killing other people, using different motivation for that, like religion, humanism and so on,are the people from Western Europe.
AndradaDaciana 4 years ago
you confuse the great religion named christianity with the people.a human who follow the christianity can be just a very good person.what is more than forgiving even your enemies?those who killed,were out of the aim of christianity.
jardelle 4 years ago
Wake up man. let no man decieve you.
guada71 4 years ago
when u will go there you will see the atmosphere and u will see everyhting it's divine.you think god its too little to can make a wonder?
jardelle 4 years ago
with the Hooly Light u dont get burn for the first 30 minutes there, the flame doesnt burn, i know that cause i have been there, and if i wasnt telling the truth every year all the ppl there would get fire... also the candles light up from themselves..!!
constantineofdarknes 4 years ago
It is wonderful. Thank you.
byorp 4 years ago
??????????????????????????????????????
kmq8qx8a 4 years ago
Though I am catholic, I think this is a ridiculous scam. Why do you think, according to the BBC this morning "the source of the flame is shrouded in great secrecy." It's shrouded because it's a pack of matches. If it was true, they wouldn't forbid a camera entering the chamber. That being said, its at least good that it gives people faith, but why fabricate things like this? Is the church afraid of losing power?
akwitkowsky 5 years ago
bbc,nbc,euronews are all against of christianity.doesn't matter if the light comes to ortodox,important is there it happen miracles.if you dont believe that the light open alone,you should believe that some times the people candles light alone.
jardelle 5 years ago
well you got all those false marian apparitions too, this is the orthodox version, deal with it :)
kostyel 4 years ago
This "fabrication" predates matches by over a dozen centuries.
NihilNominis 4 years ago
may Jesus bless all and take off the veil of muslims and jewish eyes.Jesus is just love!!!!
jardelle 5 years ago
AMIEN!!!!!!!!
tebafa 4 years ago
who said something about muslim?
jardelle 5 years ago
no man is in Jerusalem. And Orthodox is not muslim is christian
crisweb 5 years ago
That's why Orthodox is a single true faith, is the first christian church from the world until 1054. Just here holly light come from the sky not at to other religious.
crisweb 5 years ago