very well said. faved. this is a vid for the ages, like to see it put in a time capsule. opened many years from now, ppl can gasp at how terrible society was to us, exactly like we do now for such things as: womans voting rights, mixed marriage, slavery, religious hatred, jim crow laws etc.........
Define irony: people often claim that gay folk are inferior. Incidentally, gay people often grow up being SMARTER. In and of itself, that is not a bad thing. But considering the fact gay people often NEED to be more intelligent just to get by day after day, that really isn't the way being more intelligent should be... "inspired"?
@Cindercheth If nothing else, gay people seem to be more thoughtful, empathic, and in touch with the real world. I think the fact that we are different makes us more inquisitive. We first question our own thoughts and feelings, then start looking at what makes other people tick :-)
Many people may not be homophobic according to the dictionary definition, but these people seldom understand that even subtle forms of homophobia can be quite hurtful.
@RobNorthampton Rob, I hope that you have plenty of fun during the holidays, and I also hope that 2011 will be the year of zero tolerance for homophobia.
The first word power in history to have a gay man lead their military, went from a tiny "barbarian" (according to their southern neighbors at the time) city state to one of the largest empires in ancient history.
His name was Alexander the Great, and alongside him, was Hephaestion. They not only founded an empire, but took down what was the worlds greatest superpower of the time.
@spartacandream I entirely agree, but obviously today's military think they know better, and don't look back into military history. They are all numbskulls :-)
@RobNorthampton exactly, they think they are better than everyone else and that their shit doesn't stink. And they feel that they are so much more intelligent then everyone else, and that they know whats better for everyone the the people do.
i really dont get why people hate gay people, they try to justify it by saying its because they are discusting, but i think the idea of my parents having sex is discusting but i dont hate them for it.lol really dont get it
I just read that Obama's call for Congress to repeal "don't ask..." will now run into problems now that key members have been voted out in Tuesday's election. I'm really at a loss for how slowly things move in this country.
This video is so articulate. The cause and effect you set up between the larger actions of the US and the consequences for the individual is poignantly drawn.
@tinySpectacle Thanks Lo. I saw that news too, and my shoulders metaphorically slumped. It seems that as long as the Evangelicals hold so much sway, both in the State and in the churches, any recognition of the diversity within the population will remain as them being ostracised or ridiculed. Sad times.
@RobNorthampton Unfortunately, I don't see it getting any better in 2012, either. This country is full of weak minded, religious placating pussies! Drastic times call for drastic actions; no longer can we tolerate being second class citizens (speaking both as a young gay man, and atheist). I'm not quite sure how to do it, but trust me, I am one of many working on this problem. We wont get the religious freaks out in our life time, but in a century from now, they will be historical footnotes!
When we look back through history and see the unfair and unjusified treatment of black people, jews and even women, we scorn at our past leaders for the narrow minded views and feel pleased with ourselves we live in a far more civil society, our civilised society is a thin sheet of ice covering the hateful and patheic narrow mindness that still nags our society and i ask what right does anyone have to deny people who they are? or deny them the right to marry who they please? Good Video
@Mrslunarmonkey Thank you for your considered and empathic response. We can only hope that future generations are more understanding of their fellow citizens.
Ive been debating the circular logic regarding bigotry towards SSM and homosexuality the past few days and i must say, you are correct, you have a long way to go unfortunately. Discrimination seems hardwired into society and its not seeped to children, its directly taught and often times, focused on. Im not gay, its none of my business, but equal rights are. They are everyones business. I just can't understand why these idiots can't grasp the fact SSM or homosexuality has no effect on them.
@strikenetter You're right, of course. Although most people wouldn't notice it, homophobia is all around us, and kids are subjected to it every day. If they are unfortunate enough to also have bigoted parents, the message gets through to the kids loud and clear. We need more level-headed and free-thinking people such as yourself before any real changes happen. Even if legislation alters, the 'phobia still runs deep.
Thanks for commenting, and I hope the fish are swarming! :-)
@AlbinoOctopus I agree. But when the religious fundamentalists left here on the Mayflower nearly 400 years ago, you'd think that by now a few more people from hundreds of other countries would have watered down the idiocy a bit, not promoted it.
The term "don't ask,don't tell" still confuses me. Are straight soldiers being told to "don't ask" about the sexual orientation of another soldier who might have saved their life, and are gay soldiers being told to "don't tell" and blatantly lie?
I think Gok Wan should redesign those crusty old uniforms worn by American generals. ;-)
Great vid Rob! If more people were like you, we would not need militaries. : ) But i don't think we will ever get to that point, in anyones life time.
@EvolutionEducation That's high praise indeed, and I thank you very much for your comment! The difficulty of being in a minority is that the majority doesn't see it as their problem, so look the other way. If more parents stood up and demanded change, eventually it would happen. But as you say, it's a long process!
I don't think I've ever watched a video on this topic that's resonated more. It makes me feel like crying to think that people are taking their own lives, their only lives, because of homophobia. America is quite happy to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to send a man into space to hop around on a rock, when there are severe social problems in the supposed 'land of the free' that need urgent attention.
@BritishArrow You're right of course, Dave. The bigotry of previous generations has been passed down, father to son, and many people take what their parents tell them at face value. If they spent just half an hour educating themselves about all the diversity that exists in the human condition, it may make them more empathic towards other people's problems. Thanks for commenting, mate!
@DireDowns I know, and as I replied to someone else in this thread, I realise I may have been wrong in only creating a stereotypical example. I know there are gay footballers and straight artists, but I was just trying to highlight a difference in sensibilities amongst many gay teens that makes them feel apart from the crowd. My "Mark" is only a fictional character, and I wasn't trying to represent all LGBT youth with his example. I apologise, and thank you for your comment. :-)
Gr8 video! I agree with everything you say. Why the hell should gay people be treated like shit? Why should religion put fear into people? Why do people think being gay is a choice? There is NOTHING wrong with someone being gay, bi or lesbian. And for those saying that Rob shouldnt have opinions on American Laws (don't ask don't tell) grow up! He is seeing the world as a whole. Wether he himself is American or not he is still a human and don't ask don't tell efects the human race as a whole!
@TomSawyerLush Thanks Tom! If we never stand up and point out what we see as the injustices perpetrated towards us simply for being gay, those same injustices carry on forever. Whilst I don't want to destroy "the innocence of childhood" (if such a thing still exists), I do hanker for a much more comprehensive education system regarding people's differing sexualities...
The fact that 'sexuality' includes the word 'sex' stops it dead in its tracks. Kids just need to be taught that not everyone marries the opposite sex and produces the obligatory 2.4 children!
@topwomble I completely accept your reasoning, and realise I may have been wrong in only creating a stereotypical example. I know there are gay footballers and straight artists, but I was just trying to highlight a difference in sensibilities amongst many gay teens that makes them feel apart from the crowd. Thanks for your comment! :-)
Wish I had something to say here but I mostly just sat back and took it all in. I'm also in large agreement here, so what's to add? lol
Nice inclusion of that Nazi propaganda film. That has to be one of the most (if not THE most) disturbing examples of how an entire group can be so hatefully marginalized and painted as 'the enemy" when in fact the real enemy winds up being the face reflecting back in the mirror.
@OhCurt Thank you, Curt! I did wonder if I'd digressed a little too far when I watched the vid back, but then I convinced myself that there *is* a link. We *are* marginalised and made out to be "lesser" people! It may be more subtle these days than outright saying "Gays are like rats", but the message still filters through in the form of misinformation and bigotry.
Great video!!!! I live in America and look into the backyard of other countries and ask myself why my own country has fallen so far behind. I was relentlessly bullied as a child/teenager and still carry the emotional scars to this day. I also contemplated suicide, but somehow made it through the horror I experienced. I'm 47 and still have anxiety when I walk past a group of strangers. I always worry the hate attacks will start again! -Steve-
@OceanTownPictures Thanks so much for your forthright and honest comment, Steve! People are all too willing to pass off bullying as just a part of growing up, but it can obviously have far deeper repercussions, as you can testify yourself. It's still such a very difficult path to tread when you are young and gay, just making it through to adulthood. Mentally, the internal and external homophobia is bad enough to deal with, without physical beatings on top!
Sadly, I have been friendly with someone on YT for many years. Last night, she decided to post a video talking about the sins people. Gays being on the list. I unsubbed, but it hurts. Was I ignorant because she's a hard core Christian, or am I a bigot if I don't trust people who are religious? Where's the line?
@ItalianStallionette I'm afraid that my once indifference towards religion has taken a more pro-active stance in recent years, having read so many heart-rending stories from the kids themselves in my YT inbox.
Even the 'moderate' Christians I now treat with guarded respect, in the same way you would with a Scottie or Corgi dog, who seems friendly to your face, then the moment your back's turned, it bites you in the ass!
In some ways I don't think it gets better. I think we just get older, become numb, or figure out better ways to get past the pain. Now I get to watch my kids suffer as they witness gay bashing at school. My sons best friend got beat up last week after weeks of being called a faggot. Did the school do anything? Yes, he got in trouble for fighting. Where's the justice in this?
@ItalianStallionette I'm afraid you're right, Gina. Gay liberation is still moving forward, but at a snail's pace. And what good is legislated equality when education about differing sexualities is still so sadly lacking? Religion has largely caused the bigotry in the first place, and now continues to dominate and rebel against any moves forward by the State, which itself is unfortunately also made up of largely 'God-fearing people'!
@ItalianStallionette Thanks Gina. The US is not the worst place in the world to be by any means, but it seems to be slow at catching up on most issues in the western world. My own opinion is that religion is holding it back, but then again, we have so-called extremely Catholic countries like Mexico and Portugal who are now performing gay marriages, so I dunno.
Rob, this was a brilliant video, well thought out and passionate about the nonsense that passes for equality in some quarters. I say this as a straight man who nevertheless sees the inherent dangers of scapegoating during recession. Gay people, single parents, the unemployed, the sick and asylum seekers will be targeted. Divide and rule..again.
Rob, this was a brilliant video, well thought out and passionate about the nonsense that passes for equality in some quarters. I say this as a straight man who nevertheless sees the inherent dangers of scapegoating during recession. Gay people, single parents, the unemployed, the sick and asylum seekers will be targeted. Divide and rule..again.
Rob, this was a brilliant video, well thought out and passionate about the nonsense that passes for equality in some quarters. I say this as a straight man who nevertheless sees the inherent dangers of scapegoating during recession. Gay people, single parents, the unemployed, the sick and asylum seekers will be targeted. Divide and rule..again.
Rob, this was a brilliant video, well thought out and passionate about the nonsense that passes for equality in some quarters. I say this as a straight man who nevertheless sees the inherent dangers of scapegoating during recession. Gay people, single parents, the unemployed, the sick and asylum seekers will be targeted. Divide and rule..again.
@TamHickey67 Thanks very much for commenting, and I fear you're right. All minorities come under fire when society at large starts to feel the pinch. Rather than trying to cure the source of their angst, they'd rather chew their own leg off!
Oh Rob....that was very moving and beautiful. What's missing from so many people is empathy. I can very much remember my feelings while growing up and this helps me have empathy. I always find myself thinking how someone must have felt or are now feeling. When people don't have empathy, they just don't care about others.
@Roseybaby63 You are right of course, Rose. We don't have to walk in someone's shoes to imagine how their lives must be. I remember way back in infants' school (long before I realised I would one day have my own issues to deal with!) feeling sorry for the only black kid in our school at the time. Other kids made fun of him, calling him "Sambo" and "Browney", but even then I knew he had no control over his skin colour. I think some folk are just born idiots! :-)
@Echowraith I'm afraid it's because I have become personally involved with so many kids who have written to me on YouTube over the years, and are often at the point of suicide themselves, Sarina. I have lost count of the number of kids who have been beaten to the point of breaking bones, or disowned by parents, taken to 'exorcisms' to oust the 'gay demon', or even in one case, forced to have sex with a prostitute by his father who said it would "straighten him out"!
@RobNorthampton It's horrifying what people do to each other because of a book, or because they are scared. But there is always more tolerance and more acceptance with every generation. I have hope for humankind.
I lived through a lot of things you described, and as I look back on those childhood and teenage years, I remember my dad trying to teach me how to fight... I find the whole thing laughable now, but had I learned how to fight instead of learning how to talk my way out of getting into fights, most likely I'd be dead today going by what I put up with while trying to make a living... I don't believe that taking one's life is directly the result of bullying...
I believe that kids are taking their own lives because they are depressed. The depression is brought on by the hopeless and helpless feelings and stress and pressure that come from within one's mind. It may be triggered by bullying, but it's the self-talk within one's mind that leads to depression and suicide, it's an inner conflict whether it's based on the deep-down belief perpetuated by the society that being gay is bad or based on another premise. This is a tricky and complicated subject.
@fehquig Thanks Andy, and you are right, of course. Kids don't kill themselves on a whim. It is usually after a prolonged period of despair from which they can see no way out. I'm not saying kids of say, 5, should be taught about the mechanics of sex, but if they were told that sometimes a man loves a man, or a woman loves a woman, and it's completely normal, they maybe wouldn't already be instilled with self-hatred on realising they are gay themselves...
@fehquig actually its caused by school,in my day if you didnt have qualifications you was screwed although luckly turned out to be a bluff, plenty of unskilled jobs around and could earn money to get qualified for a better job later , these days it dosnt exsit and isnt a bluff :S also schools are alot more demanding and over complicated everything even to drive a car now you need to beable to predict the future and pass a means test ,same applys to mop a floor and we wonder why they are stressed
it was called teenage blues back then and knew the causes but now its too much and pushing them over the edge especially with all the discrimination on what they are not.
@fehquig That's odd. My father taught be both how to talk my way out of conflagration and to fight if all else fails. I find that both attributes of self defense has preserved my well being and sanity as I was successfull at passing down my genes to the next generation. Now it is my duty to teach MY SON how to fight (he already has the gift of gab) so as to increase my chances of being a grandfather one day. We're all today here because our ancestors understood the practice of self preservation
This was how I was brought up and, until I learned better, I unfortunately used to be very intolerant of homosexuals. Since then I've learned to think for myself and changed my views according to how I see the world, not how someone else tells me to see it.
Personally, I think it should be illegal to teach religion to children until they're at an age where they're capable of forming their own opinions rather than still forming their beliefs from the opinions of those around them.
@X2407 You are right, but the indoctrination of children into religion carries on regardless. Small children automatically believe everything their parents tell them, because they conditioned as a matter of survival to soak up everything about the world around them shown to them by their nearest and dearest.
Parents wouldn't dare leave their kids to mature before telling them about religion because they realise their kids would just see it as hokum!
The US is one of the most back assward countries I've even come across. I'm very thankful for not living there. That being said, things here in Korea are worse than in the US. I long for the day that everyone is treated as a human being.
@qiranger You have no idea about life in the USA. So by all means, please, for your sake and mine, stay the hell out. Just whatever you do, it's easy for gullible people to buy into anti-American hype, don't be common. It doesn't compliment you as you'll never get ahead that way.
@abx547 I am touched and honoured that you would leave me such a glowing comment. Ultimately though, all the hard work involved in coming out is down to you, and I'm just happy it's all worked out so well for you! Good luck in the future, and I hope you manage to overcome any other of life's obstacles with such aplomb! :-)
@FaganRoberts As an American, who has spent 37 years living in CA, TX, and AZ, I think I can comment accurately. Living abroad and seeing how the rest of the world responds to issues, I've been able to assess how the US stacks up. Rob's take on this issue is spot on. My statement is also accurate, when you look at the state of personal responsibility (or lack thereof), education, and civil rights. The US has the potential to be a great country once again, but fails to exercise effort.
@qiranger I can comment with the same degree of relevance and experience and I can honestly state that the United States, in most areas of the country, has done more in the area of civil rights, recognition of minorities, promotion and acceptance of alternative lifestyles than any other nation on this planet at any given time. I've seen this "gay teen suicide" fad come and go many times over the years, much of which is merely trendy hyperbole manufactured by an agenda driven media.
@qiranger When it comes to something as personal as suicide your options are only limited as your imagination. I can think of a million reasons to knock yourself off. But I can think a millions more on why one would refrain. Homosexuals, among other types, have been killing themselves for thousands of years, for various reasons. The focus of "bully induced" suicide by teen homosexuals is merely being highlighted amongst a plethora of other reasons. It's the focus upon that is the latest fad.
@FaganRoberts Everyone wants to "fit in". Kids generally want to please their parents. When they reach puberty and realise that they are gay, the reason many become depressed is because their parents, and society at large, presses forward the idea that being gay is a bad thing to be. As they have no control over their sexuality, they are made to feel they are a huge disappointment to their folks. The bullying on top is just the icing on the depression cake...
Because whichever way the kid turns, he sees only homophobia and hatred, he feels trapped. He may not be able to tell his parents for fear of being disowned, and has to wake each day with the dread fear that he is most likely going to get beaten up again, and can do nothing about it.
So, it's not a kid's homosexuality itself that forces him to kill himself, but the reactions of other people around him that force him into utter despair.
A fad, btw, is a Nintendo Wii, or new Reebok trainers, not taking your own life. A kid doesn't think, "Hmm, that kid along the street killed himself last week. That seems like a cool thing to do. I'm doing nothing else this weekend, I think I'll join him". He kills himself because he just wants his misery and pain to end, and can see no other way out.
@RobNorthampton Same concept can be applied to another deviation society deems as anti-social, abnormal, immoral, maladaptive, alternative or inconsequential, etc.. In the USA, homosexual behavior has been normed, accepted and almost encouraged as another expression. The problem lies with the individual and being comfortable in their skin. Many homosexuals appear uncomfortable with their preferences, choices or nature. But most seem pretty gay & open. It's a hyped issue here seeking attention.
@FaganRoberts A fad? What a foolish, repugnant statement, mingled in circular reasoning. Do you have the audacity to tell a family, face to face, whose kid committed suicide that it was a fad? I highly doubt it. Trolls like you only have the "courage" to say such vial garbage via the relative anonymity of the internet. In all other circumstances, you most likely hide under your mother's skirt. Try reading a book and educate yourself on acceptable social behaviour.
@TeenTwinkTween Teen suicide is not a fad, Teeny Bop. Suicide in general numbers (per 100,000) is a constant that hasn't changed over the years in the US. What I stated was the focus, the media highlight on the homosexual or bullying aspect of teen suicide, was a fad. And it is. Want gun control? Focus on teen suicide w/ guns. Want stricter drug laws? Focus on teen suicide w/ drugs. Want to promote a "gay" agenda? Focus on teen homo suicide. Crtitical thinking required when reading my posts
@FaganRoberts (When it comes to something as personal as bullying your options are only limited as your imagination. I can think of a million reasons to knock a queer off. But I can think of millions more on why one would refrain. Heteros, as a type, have been killing non-heteros for thousands of years, for conformist reasons. The focus of "bully enabled" conformity by teen heterosexuals is merely being denied for a plethora of other reasons. It's the industry that is the latest fad.
@kern0099 Homosexuals have been raping and forcibly buggering heterosexuals for thousands of years as well. A form of dominance and forced submission of the heterosexual to the homosexual. I can think of millions of reason to deny this. Shame, fear of being viewed as feminized, etc.. But if the media suddenly focused on this incessant crime against heteros, I would wonder as to whether this was a fad or a form of focused "gay bashing." Wouldn't you?
@FaganRoberts Rapists are rapists. Does your hate and fear of people make you horny? Point blank, I want to know, because that is how you cast non-heteros. So, are you sitting at your keyboard stroking your hate-on at this message, thinking you're provoking me or not? I've met plenty like you, "man". Apologies to Rob for my negativity, since as a man he's clearly above this discussion. Me, I'm a little nicked up from life, I've long ago learned I like to fight. ;-)
@kern0099 Bullies are bullies. Don't you think that if the media was focusing on (homosexual) rape, specified, like it is focusing on (homosexual) bullying, specified, something would be amiss in your conspiratorial mind? You failed to address this legitimate question. Instead all you asked is, if I'm "horny" and "stroking."
I mean, please? For the love of decency, do not fit in with the common homosexual stereotype. You can do much better than that.
@FaganRoberts I'm not sure in my conspiratorial mind what to make of your silly straw man, as my hetero-sexist conspiracy manual isn't handy, but as for "homosexual stereotypes" thanks for not spelling out the VERY common factor while giving a useful example. What would I do without you, big daddy? I don't care what anyone says, guys like you aren't a dime a dozen in discussions involving us gays. Bullying us is so USEFUL, it wins one such security, eh? Prove my point much?
@kern0099 You're dodged that legitimate question one last time. Of course, you won't answer it. By doing so it would underline my very simple point and you're smart enough to know it. You are making a special pleading in your case and I called you out on it. Fail.
@kern0099 Bullies are bullies. Don't you think that if the media was focusing on (homosexual) rape, specified, like it is focusing on (heterosexual) bullying, specified, something would be amiss in your conspiratorial mind? You failed to address this legitimate question. Instead all you asked is, if I'm "horny" and "stroking."
I mean, please? For the love of decency, do not fit in with the common homosexual stereotype. You can do much better than that.
@qiranger I fear the US, and the UK alike, have lost any socialist ideas in recent generations. Both the US Democrats and the UK Labour Party have swung right of centre, implementing only the plans that bring in profits and privatisation. So long as the big money rolls in for the fat cats, everyone else can sink or swim. Any kind of care system that requires funding from the state is left sadly lacking.
Such a strongly intelligent video! Firstly, you made me feel deeply how important it is for gay people to be able to marry their 'significant other', and to be happy like the others can be happy. Then, your explanation, step by step, of the experiences in a gay child's life was a pleasure to listen to, because of its consistency.
And many many many members of the Ancient Roman armies were bisexual and the Ancient greeks too, so the U.S. needs to shut the fuck up about gays ruining the military
@XforeverlongingX True enough! And the Japanese Samurai actually encouraged gay lovers into their ranks, the reasoning being that if you had your lover at your side in battle, you would fight so much harder to protect them! It makes sense.
Most of the shit comes from religion. Kirk Cameron, that piece of shit actor himself is one of the loudest and most adamant anti-gay dude out there. And honestly, you're either christian or you're not, muslim or ur not jewish or ur not. If you're christian, you believe pretty much everything that the westboro baptist church does. Because their interpretation of their shitty Bible is quite accurate
@XforeverlongingX There's no doubt that religion has held back many advances in human endeavours, and continues to do so. As an atheist myself, I have yet to see anything positive come from religion that couldn't be done, probably better, without it. You only have to look at African Christian "charities". "Here, read this bibble scribble and you can have a piece of bread!"
I don't know where to start really, it depends on what your surrounding society's like and how you see yourself, but yes suicide most certainly can be avoided and rather than shrugging it off the governments should be doing something about it.
@hemeanseverything2me Thanks Tom! You are fortunate that you live in a more accepting society, and, like me, haven't had to suffer parents who readily castigate or even disown their own gay children. We are the lucky ones. Most of the kids who write to me on YouTube with coming out problems are American, but I'm not berating all Americans - just their leaders. As many of my subscribers are American, I did wonder if I would annoy them with this vid, but most seem to agree change is needed.
Thank you for speaking out on this subject, Rob. I must say that I'm truly at a loss of words to express my anger and frustration for those GLBT kids, only a few years younger than myself.
I would like to see the GLBT and other rational thinking people unite, and impeach the bigots that run this country. As mad as I am, I have hope that the future will be a better time for every human being.
@TeenTwinkTween Justin, we all hope and strive for that kind of society that accepts people for who they are, regardless of differences. Sadly though, the Human Ape still likes to live in tribes, and repel all "outsiders". That's why people so readily pledge allegiance to their church group, sports team, or college fraternities.
We have not moved that far from the chimpanzees who throw rocks at each other because they live in a different part of the forest.
@RobNorthampton You're correct, Rob. Our prefrontal cortex hasn't yet evolved to the point of true logical thinking. Of course, this brings me back to my original contention...currently, the vast majority of homophobes are religious. I feel if we're to make any progress, we must try to educate these people, even if they will not listen. Religion has been forcing itself on society for nearly 2000 years; now, it's our turn to try reasoning with them, and not put up with their vile garbage.
@TeenTwinkTween I agree with many aspects of your comment, especially the education of discriminative religion. But one question, how do you educate using logic to someone who absolutely refuses to use it? Though i do believe our brains have evolved truly capable of logically thinking, its just some ignorant individuals would rather rely on tradition and and their brainwashing than thinking in a rational manner!
@strikenetter People who refuse to *use* logic can't be taught, unfortunately. I was making an overall gross generalization. I just read in today's local paper that public school attendance is at an all-time low, since many parents are "teaching" their kids at home. It's a recipe for bigotry and ignorance, since the majority of home-schooled kids have ultra-religious parents, using wacky websites and the bible as their education guide. It's maddening!
bullying been going on for decades and gay kids been killing themselves for a long time but the American Media never really picked up on it until recently with 7 gay teens killing themselves in a span of 3 weeks it seriously is scary.....
we all need to do our part in helping GLBTQ Youth out there....and the school system needs to address this problem cause gay kids have it worst in school
I hope now with so much attention getting put on his subject the issue will finally get address
@gilbertblaze We can but hope, Gilbert. I know it's not a new thing, and I've practically been accused of 'jumping on the bandwagon'. but my whole channel has always been largely devoted to the problems facing gay youth and the coming out process. It's only a few months since I made the video, 'How many more kids must die?' on the same subject. I guess I am more passionate about it because of reading so many sad stories from kids who PM me, so it's become more personal to me...
One lad wrote to me last week saying when he came out, his parents put him into a 'Jesus Camp' but he was roped to a bed so that his "gay demons" couldn't affect the other kids. He was only released for meals or for a mass exorcism ceremony, where he was held down whilst Elders of his church read Latin over him, and spoke in tongues. When that didn't work, his father paid for a prostitute to 'straighten him out'....
That was when he ran away and hasn't seen his family since. He is thankfully now in a good, supportive household, but is suffering from depression, and has suicidal thoughts.
Change does happen, but it's so painfully slow, and meanwhile the death rate goes up.
@Shydrow I'm pleased that a few states already have moved forward. I've no doubt that one day, marriage will no longer be an issue anywhere in the western world. The UK still only has Civil Unions, so I'm not holding Britain up as being any better. Ironically, if a man and woman want a Civil Union, they can't have one. They are specifically for same sex couples. We are still the "lesser beings" as long as we accept scraps from the table rather than full equality.
@RobNorthampton That makes no sense. How can you have civil unions and not let straight couples get married under it? Wanna know something I'm going to go to England one day if i ever meet the right person and demand a civil union. Not that it will be very effective me being American and all but I'm sure the point will be made about the silliness of it all and stop the pussy footing and make marriage for both. As well as civil unions cause marriage seems like a dirty institution now.
Actually teen suicide is quite low in the USA and the numbers per 100,000 has remained fairly consistent over the years. One can use these statistics to push any agenda you wish. From drug prohibition, gun owner controls, homosexual agendas, anti-bullying legislation, religious prosyletizing (spelling?), psychiatric snitch interventions, taxpayer funded midnight basketball, etc.. Overall, it's disturbing. But I wouldn't buy into the alarmist hype. These faddish reactions, I've seen, come & go.
@FaganRoberts I'm not pushing an agenda though, nor do I think it's anything new under the sun. I posted a video last year on the same subject, and things don't change. When I was 19, a 16 year old boy I knew who was petrified of telling his snooty uber-christian parents he was gay, walked up to the nearby railway line and layed his neck across the line until a train cut his head off. Local papers quoted his mother as saying, "He was worried about exam results".
The point is that gay kids are driven to hate themselves because of the bigoted society they grow up in. The bullying, if it occurs, is the final straw, so to speak.
@RobNorthampton Could it possibly be that perhaps many homosexuals kill themselves because they disdain the way they are? Much like the despair an alcoholic reaches when they can no longer "control" their drinking. On the other hand, me thinks such people are depressed to begin with and their homosexuality is merely a symptom and not the cause of their suicidal tendencies. BTW: Most homosexuals in the US are happy, otherwise well adjusted people. The practice is almost encouraged here these days
@FaganRoberts The fad is hetero-normative religious agenda masquerading as legitimate dialogue. There was never a time in modern America where homophobia was such a rewarding and profitable enterprise as it is now. These culture wars, the very thing that seems to inform your libertarianism as a call to "eradicate government" are a smoke screen, like your posts here. Shouldn't you be self stimulating to Atlas Shrugged or something?
I'm extremely lucky to have both an American passport and an Irish passport...I'm planning on moving out of the USA as soon as I can. In the end, I'm going to denounce my citizenship.
Thanks Rob, I appreciate the tone in your vid since someone needs to call the alarm. The way I see it the political landscape has taken a structure of proto-fascism here. Bush absconded, and created a power vacuum on the right. This vacuum is one where "leadership" in the American sense is impossible, since it's carried out and utilized by committees who are basically in the shadows and calling the shots for corporations. Most people I know here agree, whether left or right, however..(cont'd)
@kern0099 We disagree due to miseducation over the last 30 years fueled by "culture war" based propaganda. Meanwhile, the deregulation push created political power that thrives on undermining the quality of life since we are just consumers, and don't deserve any civil life. That can all be privatized, you see! Long story short, we are all being influenced by forces that do not answer to us, at any point in the political process, in fact the process meant to help only hurts us all. (cont'd)
@kern0099 Divisivness like this has become very useful to both parties, since they are both "conservative" (whatever that means anymore) Obama has turned the left to the right, and the most important card in his hand he used is GLBT's. He is using us to undermine everyone's ability to legislate without the influence of capitol, complete with their spreadsheets, 5 year plans, etc. We are offical scapegoats and political pariahs because of the last two admins, Sorry for the long post, peace Rob!
@kern0099 There is no need to apologise for commenting, Adam. I always appreciate people's input, otherwise, I'm talking to myself, so naturally, I appreciate yours. :-)
I agree with you, because it is much the same here. There really is no 'people party' any more. They are all geared towards privatising everything they can, and hedging all responsibilities towards the people paying the taxes.
Our societies experience an increased stratification and marginalisation of people, and the bar for normality is lowered (or hightened, depending on your perspective).
I think the world- and humane view put forward in the Venus Project and e.g. Zeitgeist: Addendum is worth persuing.
Empathy is, by some, consigned to the scrapheap. When we aren't epathic, we're divided as a people. A divided people can be ruled by whoever has the resources and percieved gain to do so.
@NielsC68 You are right. A prime example is that 50 years ago, everyone knew their neighbours, and they cared and looked out for each other. Today, most people barely know the names of the people next door.
I came across the realization earlier this week that when I was that age, the main reason I had felt the way I did was that I had been brought up to think that homosexuality was some sort of super-rare case, and that I would be lucky if I grew up and even met one other person like me. Then there was game theory factor; who is the first to drop their guard? It seemed as though I would never meet someone who I could relate to and make me incredibly lonely for years.
@FangFiftyFive I understand completely. I was raised in a small market town, and gay people seemed as rare as hens' teeth! As a teen, I felt I was something to be ashamed of, and kept my 'secret' for years, dating a string of girls in an effort to 'fit in'. Thanks goodness I moved farther afield and discovered there was life after boobies! :-)
I remember when I was young and heard this contempt-laden 'It's sssssick!!' when the subject of homosexuality came up at home. I think I thought at the time there was no way these people would change — not if they'd lived that long already and still thought that way. But here they are, all these years later, absolutely mortified about their attitudes and behaviour back then, and now so positive and embracing — and picking others up on their ignorant comments. How things can change. ;8)
@TheraminTrees I was just about to leave a pretty negative, hopeless feeling comment. So thanks for shinning a light I needed to see (even though I've said it myself, previously).
It's just that The Barack Obama Justice Department is desperately fighting against a California Federal Judge's ruling against "Don't Ask Don't Tell". His attorney's are actually making tired Republican argument that it would endanger our military preparedness! WTF?
@AncientAtheist Hey John. Yes it's been a great disappointment to see Obama move in slo-mo on so many things he has the intelligence to apply himself too aggressively, like equality issues. Some of what he said prior to his appointment sent out the message that he'd be on a go-slow. It was couched in pragmatism at the time — kind of, 'Allow bigots to boil gradually rather than chuck them straight in boiling water'. But all the initiatives I've seen so far are coming from the public ....
@AncientAtheist Hi John! We have discussed it before, and I do believe that worldwide, things have got much better, and hopefully will continue to do so. It's just that sometimes, trying to make a couple of steps forward seem like walking in treacle! Sometimes change comes from public attitude, and sometimes from legislation, but either way, we seem to flip-flop forward somehow.
I read a report on Obama promising change, whilst at the same time the Justice Dept. were ringing alarm bells! Tsk!
@TheraminTrees My own parents weren't vehemently homophobic, but I do remember 'comments' my mum made about gay people when I was a kid. We had a gay neighbour, and when I was 7 or 8 she said, "Don't go near that man. He's a bit ..funny". I didn't understand, because he always seemed a nice enough chap to me. But of course, their generation weren't told anything about differing sexualities, so had to form their own conclusions from the homophobic society they grew up in....
However, when I came out in the '70's, they had already changed with the times, and they have been my biggest supporters and best friends ever since. They still are, even in their Eighties. My dad told me once, "There were gay blokes in the army when I did my National Service (1946-8) We all knew, but nobody cared. They did their thing and we did ours". It's a pity that attitude can't be more widespread 60 years on...
@conclusivebeginning I don't think even that would change them, Ryan. They are so blinded by their own bigotry, they'd probably rejoice that the evil gay one had died! There are some seriously fucked up people about.
very well said. faved. this is a vid for the ages, like to see it put in a time capsule. opened many years from now, ppl can gasp at how terrible society was to us, exactly like we do now for such things as: womans voting rights, mixed marriage, slavery, religious hatred, jim crow laws etc.........
1 LIFE
sleekcartim 1 year ago
@sleekcartim Thanks very much. I'm just sorry it's such a sad subject. We still have some evolving to do.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Very good video <3 Favd and luckily my friend has showed me this now I have someone else to watch who seems to be very intelligent and truthful : )
WarMasterX6 1 year ago
@WarMasterX6 Thanks very much for watching. And for taking the time to comment, of course! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton No problem! ^^
WarMasterX6 1 year ago
Define irony: people often claim that gay folk are inferior. Incidentally, gay people often grow up being SMARTER. In and of itself, that is not a bad thing. But considering the fact gay people often NEED to be more intelligent just to get by day after day, that really isn't the way being more intelligent should be... "inspired"?
Cindercheth 1 year ago
@Cindercheth If nothing else, gay people seem to be more thoughtful, empathic, and in touch with the real world. I think the fact that we are different makes us more inquisitive. We first question our own thoughts and feelings, then start looking at what makes other people tick :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Many people may not be homophobic according to the dictionary definition, but these people seldom understand that even subtle forms of homophobia can be quite hurtful.
Thank you, Rob, for this wonderful video!
schwul1956 1 year ago
@schwul1956 And thank you Charles for such a glowing comment! I hope you have an enjoyable holiday period and a great new year, my friend! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
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schwul1956 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton Rob, I hope that you have plenty of fun during the holidays, and I also hope that 2011 will be the year of zero tolerance for homophobia.
schwul1956 1 year ago
The first word power in history to have a gay man lead their military, went from a tiny "barbarian" (according to their southern neighbors at the time) city state to one of the largest empires in ancient history.
His name was Alexander the Great, and alongside him, was Hephaestion. They not only founded an empire, but took down what was the worlds greatest superpower of the time.
spartacandream 1 year ago
@spartacandream I entirely agree, but obviously today's military think they know better, and don't look back into military history. They are all numbskulls :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton yeah they are :-D
spartacandream 1 year ago
You are doing great, well thought out monologues........as a liberal activist I admire you. Never stop.
gasgas270 1 year ago
Sounds to me like they hate because they are jealous.
waltercarnby 1 year ago
@waltercarnby Majorities always like to scapegoat minorities. It boosts their ego and makes them feel superior.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton exactly, they think they are better than everyone else and that their shit doesn't stink. And they feel that they are so much more intelligent then everyone else, and that they know whats better for everyone the the people do.
hellspawn3200 1 year ago
i really dont get why people hate gay people, they try to justify it by saying its because they are discusting, but i think the idea of my parents having sex is discusting but i dont hate them for it.lol really dont get it
TheLunarmonkey 1 year ago
@TheLunarmonkey You make a very valid point! Thanks for the comment! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
I just read that Obama's call for Congress to repeal "don't ask..." will now run into problems now that key members have been voted out in Tuesday's election. I'm really at a loss for how slowly things move in this country.
This video is so articulate. The cause and effect you set up between the larger actions of the US and the consequences for the individual is poignantly drawn.
tinySpectacle 1 year ago
@tinySpectacle Thanks Lo. I saw that news too, and my shoulders metaphorically slumped. It seems that as long as the Evangelicals hold so much sway, both in the State and in the churches, any recognition of the diversity within the population will remain as them being ostracised or ridiculed. Sad times.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton Unfortunately, I don't see it getting any better in 2012, either. This country is full of weak minded, religious placating pussies! Drastic times call for drastic actions; no longer can we tolerate being second class citizens (speaking both as a young gay man, and atheist). I'm not quite sure how to do it, but trust me, I am one of many working on this problem. We wont get the religious freaks out in our life time, but in a century from now, they will be historical footnotes!
TeenTwinkTween 1 year ago
@TeenTwinkTween I certainly hope you're right! It all needs a massive overhaul. The more people that stand up for their rights, the better!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthamptop Your very welcome :)
Mrslunarmonkey 1 year ago
When we look back through history and see the unfair and unjusified treatment of black people, jews and even women, we scorn at our past leaders for the narrow minded views and feel pleased with ourselves we live in a far more civil society, our civilised society is a thin sheet of ice covering the hateful and patheic narrow mindness that still nags our society and i ask what right does anyone have to deny people who they are? or deny them the right to marry who they please? Good Video
Mrslunarmonkey 1 year ago
@Mrslunarmonkey Thank you for your considered and empathic response. We can only hope that future generations are more understanding of their fellow citizens.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
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Mrslunarmonkey 1 year ago
Ive been debating the circular logic regarding bigotry towards SSM and homosexuality the past few days and i must say, you are correct, you have a long way to go unfortunately. Discrimination seems hardwired into society and its not seeped to children, its directly taught and often times, focused on. Im not gay, its none of my business, but equal rights are. They are everyones business. I just can't understand why these idiots can't grasp the fact SSM or homosexuality has no effect on them.
strikenetter 1 year ago
@strikenetter You're right, of course. Although most people wouldn't notice it, homophobia is all around us, and kids are subjected to it every day. If they are unfortunate enough to also have bigoted parents, the message gets through to the kids loud and clear. We need more level-headed and free-thinking people such as yourself before any real changes happen. Even if legislation alters, the 'phobia still runs deep.
Thanks for commenting, and I hope the fish are swarming! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
It's because all the bigoted retarded people who lived in your country during the 18th century moved over here and spread there genetics :(
AlbinoOctopus 1 year ago
@AlbinoOctopus I agree. But when the religious fundamentalists left here on the Mayflower nearly 400 years ago, you'd think that by now a few more people from hundreds of other countries would have watered down the idiocy a bit, not promoted it.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton Nope because they left there country's for the same reasons :(
AlbinoOctopus 1 year ago
The term "don't ask,don't tell" still confuses me. Are straight soldiers being told to "don't ask" about the sexual orientation of another soldier who might have saved their life, and are gay soldiers being told to "don't tell" and blatantly lie?
I think Gok Wan should redesign those crusty old uniforms worn by American generals. ;-)
SteeveeStrange 1 year ago
@SteeveeStrange I wonder if he could redesign their brains while he's at it? :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Great vid Rob! If more people were like you, we would not need militaries. : ) But i don't think we will ever get to that point, in anyones life time.
EvolutionEducation 1 year ago
@EvolutionEducation That's high praise indeed, and I thank you very much for your comment! The difficulty of being in a minority is that the majority doesn't see it as their problem, so look the other way. If more parents stood up and demanded change, eventually it would happen. But as you say, it's a long process!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
I don't think I've ever watched a video on this topic that's resonated more. It makes me feel like crying to think that people are taking their own lives, their only lives, because of homophobia. America is quite happy to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to send a man into space to hop around on a rock, when there are severe social problems in the supposed 'land of the free' that need urgent attention.
BritishArrow 1 year ago
@BritishArrow You're right of course, Dave. The bigotry of previous generations has been passed down, father to son, and many people take what their parents tell them at face value. If they spent just half an hour educating themselves about all the diversity that exists in the human condition, it may make them more empathic towards other people's problems. Thanks for commenting, mate!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago 2
@RobNorthampton
Just because somebody is gay, it doesn't mean that they hate sports.
DireDowns 1 year ago
@DireDowns I know, and as I replied to someone else in this thread, I realise I may have been wrong in only creating a stereotypical example. I know there are gay footballers and straight artists, but I was just trying to highlight a difference in sensibilities amongst many gay teens that makes them feel apart from the crowd. My "Mark" is only a fictional character, and I wasn't trying to represent all LGBT youth with his example. I apologise, and thank you for your comment. :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Gr8 video! I agree with everything you say. Why the hell should gay people be treated like shit? Why should religion put fear into people? Why do people think being gay is a choice? There is NOTHING wrong with someone being gay, bi or lesbian. And for those saying that Rob shouldnt have opinions on American Laws (don't ask don't tell) grow up! He is seeing the world as a whole. Wether he himself is American or not he is still a human and don't ask don't tell efects the human race as a whole!
TomSawyerLush 1 year ago
@TomSawyerLush Thanks Tom! If we never stand up and point out what we see as the injustices perpetrated towards us simply for being gay, those same injustices carry on forever. Whilst I don't want to destroy "the innocence of childhood" (if such a thing still exists), I do hanker for a much more comprehensive education system regarding people's differing sexualities...
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
The fact that 'sexuality' includes the word 'sex' stops it dead in its tracks. Kids just need to be taught that not everyone marries the opposite sex and produces the obligatory 2.4 children!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@topwomble I completely accept your reasoning, and realise I may have been wrong in only creating a stereotypical example. I know there are gay footballers and straight artists, but I was just trying to highlight a difference in sensibilities amongst many gay teens that makes them feel apart from the crowd. Thanks for your comment! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@goozdude400 You'll get no argument from me on your opinions. I totally agree with you. We can but hope for a better future.
:-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Wish I had something to say here but I mostly just sat back and took it all in. I'm also in large agreement here, so what's to add? lol
Nice inclusion of that Nazi propaganda film. That has to be one of the most (if not THE most) disturbing examples of how an entire group can be so hatefully marginalized and painted as 'the enemy" when in fact the real enemy winds up being the face reflecting back in the mirror.
OhCurt 1 year ago
@OhCurt Thank you, Curt! I did wonder if I'd digressed a little too far when I watched the vid back, but then I convinced myself that there *is* a link. We *are* marginalised and made out to be "lesser" people! It may be more subtle these days than outright saying "Gays are like rats", but the message still filters through in the form of misinformation and bigotry.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Great video!!!! I live in America and look into the backyard of other countries and ask myself why my own country has fallen so far behind. I was relentlessly bullied as a child/teenager and still carry the emotional scars to this day. I also contemplated suicide, but somehow made it through the horror I experienced. I'm 47 and still have anxiety when I walk past a group of strangers. I always worry the hate attacks will start again! -Steve-
OceanTownPictures 1 year ago
@OceanTownPictures Thanks so much for your forthright and honest comment, Steve! People are all too willing to pass off bullying as just a part of growing up, but it can obviously have far deeper repercussions, as you can testify yourself. It's still such a very difficult path to tread when you are young and gay, just making it through to adulthood. Mentally, the internal and external homophobia is bad enough to deal with, without physical beatings on top!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Sadly, I have been friendly with someone on YT for many years. Last night, she decided to post a video talking about the sins people. Gays being on the list. I unsubbed, but it hurts. Was I ignorant because she's a hard core Christian, or am I a bigot if I don't trust people who are religious? Where's the line?
ItalianStallionette 1 year ago
@ItalianStallionette ops.. the sins* of people,
ItalianStallionette 1 year ago
@ItalianStallionette I'm afraid that my once indifference towards religion has taken a more pro-active stance in recent years, having read so many heart-rending stories from the kids themselves in my YT inbox.
Even the 'moderate' Christians I now treat with guarded respect, in the same way you would with a Scottie or Corgi dog, who seems friendly to your face, then the moment your back's turned, it bites you in the ass!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
In some ways I don't think it gets better. I think we just get older, become numb, or figure out better ways to get past the pain. Now I get to watch my kids suffer as they witness gay bashing at school. My sons best friend got beat up last week after weeks of being called a faggot. Did the school do anything? Yes, he got in trouble for fighting. Where's the justice in this?
ItalianStallionette 1 year ago
@ItalianStallionette I'm afraid you're right, Gina. Gay liberation is still moving forward, but at a snail's pace. And what good is legislated equality when education about differing sexualities is still so sadly lacking? Religion has largely caused the bigotry in the first place, and now continues to dominate and rebel against any moves forward by the State, which itself is unfortunately also made up of largely 'God-fearing people'!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
WOW.. I had no idea that many countries allow gay people to serve. Talk about embarassing. WOW again on the marriage list.
You've done a great job with this video. I believe I will make one too, but it depends on my other tasks I can't get out of.
ItalianStallionette 1 year ago
@ItalianStallionette Thanks Gina. The US is not the worst place in the world to be by any means, but it seems to be slow at catching up on most issues in the western world. My own opinion is that religion is holding it back, but then again, we have so-called extremely Catholic countries like Mexico and Portugal who are now performing gay marriages, so I dunno.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Rob this is great mate!!!
YAHWEHtoHELL 1 year ago
@YAHWEHtoHELL Thanks Sean! So are you! Manly hugs and much patting of the back! Have you read your Watchtower yet? :-D
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Rob, this was a brilliant video, well thought out and passionate about the nonsense that passes for equality in some quarters. I say this as a straight man who nevertheless sees the inherent dangers of scapegoating during recession. Gay people, single parents, the unemployed, the sick and asylum seekers will be targeted. Divide and rule..again.
TamHickey67 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Rob, this was a brilliant video, well thought out and passionate about the nonsense that passes for equality in some quarters. I say this as a straight man who nevertheless sees the inherent dangers of scapegoating during recession. Gay people, single parents, the unemployed, the sick and asylum seekers will be targeted. Divide and rule..again.
TamHickey67 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Rob, this was a brilliant video, well thought out and passionate about the nonsense that passes for equality in some quarters. I say this as a straight man who nevertheless sees the inherent dangers of scapegoating during recession. Gay people, single parents, the unemployed, the sick and asylum seekers will be targeted. Divide and rule..again.
TamHickey67 1 year ago
Rob, this was a brilliant video, well thought out and passionate about the nonsense that passes for equality in some quarters. I say this as a straight man who nevertheless sees the inherent dangers of scapegoating during recession. Gay people, single parents, the unemployed, the sick and asylum seekers will be targeted. Divide and rule..again.
TamHickey67 1 year ago
@TamHickey67 Thanks very much for commenting, and I fear you're right. All minorities come under fire when society at large starts to feel the pinch. Rather than trying to cure the source of their angst, they'd rather chew their own leg off!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Oh Rob....that was very moving and beautiful. What's missing from so many people is empathy. I can very much remember my feelings while growing up and this helps me have empathy. I always find myself thinking how someone must have felt or are now feeling. When people don't have empathy, they just don't care about others.
Roseybaby63 1 year ago
@Roseybaby63 You are right of course, Rose. We don't have to walk in someone's shoes to imagine how their lives must be. I remember way back in infants' school (long before I realised I would one day have my own issues to deal with!) feeling sorry for the only black kid in our school at the time. Other kids made fun of him, calling him "Sambo" and "Browney", but even then I knew he had no control over his skin colour. I think some folk are just born idiots! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
This is perhaps the most impassioned I've seen you in your videos. It's very moving.
Echowraith 1 year ago
@Echowraith I'm afraid it's because I have become personally involved with so many kids who have written to me on YouTube over the years, and are often at the point of suicide themselves, Sarina. I have lost count of the number of kids who have been beaten to the point of breaking bones, or disowned by parents, taken to 'exorcisms' to oust the 'gay demon', or even in one case, forced to have sex with a prostitute by his father who said it would "straighten him out"!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton It's horrifying what people do to each other because of a book, or because they are scared. But there is always more tolerance and more acceptance with every generation. I have hope for humankind.
Echowraith 1 year ago
great video my friend
SuperChuke 1 year ago
@SuperChuke Thank you, Ricky! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
I lived through a lot of things you described, and as I look back on those childhood and teenage years, I remember my dad trying to teach me how to fight... I find the whole thing laughable now, but had I learned how to fight instead of learning how to talk my way out of getting into fights, most likely I'd be dead today going by what I put up with while trying to make a living... I don't believe that taking one's life is directly the result of bullying...
fehquig 1 year ago
I believe that kids are taking their own lives because they are depressed. The depression is brought on by the hopeless and helpless feelings and stress and pressure that come from within one's mind. It may be triggered by bullying, but it's the self-talk within one's mind that leads to depression and suicide, it's an inner conflict whether it's based on the deep-down belief perpetuated by the society that being gay is bad or based on another premise. This is a tricky and complicated subject.
fehquig 1 year ago
Excellent video, by the way.
fehquig 1 year ago
@fehquig Thanks Andy, and you are right, of course. Kids don't kill themselves on a whim. It is usually after a prolonged period of despair from which they can see no way out. I'm not saying kids of say, 5, should be taught about the mechanics of sex, but if they were told that sometimes a man loves a man, or a woman loves a woman, and it's completely normal, they maybe wouldn't already be instilled with self-hatred on realising they are gay themselves...
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Add to that a set of homophobic parents, and a largely homophobic society beyond them, and their lives become insufferable.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@fehquig actually its caused by school,in my day if you didnt have qualifications you was screwed although luckly turned out to be a bluff, plenty of unskilled jobs around and could earn money to get qualified for a better job later , these days it dosnt exsit and isnt a bluff :S also schools are alot more demanding and over complicated everything even to drive a car now you need to beable to predict the future and pass a means test ,same applys to mop a floor and we wonder why they are stressed
gosh2013 1 year ago
it was called teenage blues back then and knew the causes but now its too much and pushing them over the edge especially with all the discrimination on what they are not.
gosh2013 1 year ago
@gosh2013 I agree that today's kids are put under incredible pressure to meet a certain set of expectations that are often way out of their reach.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@fehquig That's odd. My father taught be both how to talk my way out of conflagration and to fight if all else fails. I find that both attributes of self defense has preserved my well being and sanity as I was successfull at passing down my genes to the next generation. Now it is my duty to teach MY SON how to fight (he already has the gift of gab) so as to increase my chances of being a grandfather one day. We're all today here because our ancestors understood the practice of self preservation
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
4:00 - 4:15
This was how I was brought up and, until I learned better, I unfortunately used to be very intolerant of homosexuals. Since then I've learned to think for myself and changed my views according to how I see the world, not how someone else tells me to see it.
Personally, I think it should be illegal to teach religion to children until they're at an age where they're capable of forming their own opinions rather than still forming their beliefs from the opinions of those around them.
X2407 1 year ago
@X2407 You are right, but the indoctrination of children into religion carries on regardless. Small children automatically believe everything their parents tell them, because they conditioned as a matter of survival to soak up everything about the world around them shown to them by their nearest and dearest.
Parents wouldn't dare leave their kids to mature before telling them about religion because they realise their kids would just see it as hokum!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
The US is one of the most back assward countries I've even come across. I'm very thankful for not living there. That being said, things here in Korea are worse than in the US. I long for the day that everyone is treated as a human being.
qiranger 1 year ago
@qiranger You have no idea about life in the USA. So by all means, please, for your sake and mine, stay the hell out. Just whatever you do, it's easy for gullible people to buy into anti-American hype, don't be common. It doesn't compliment you as you'll never get ahead that way.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts (Qiranger is an American English teacher working and living in Korea)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
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abx547 1 year ago
@abx547 I am touched and honoured that you would leave me such a glowing comment. Ultimately though, all the hard work involved in coming out is down to you, and I'm just happy it's all worked out so well for you! Good luck in the future, and I hope you manage to overcome any other of life's obstacles with such aplomb! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts As an American, who has spent 37 years living in CA, TX, and AZ, I think I can comment accurately. Living abroad and seeing how the rest of the world responds to issues, I've been able to assess how the US stacks up. Rob's take on this issue is spot on. My statement is also accurate, when you look at the state of personal responsibility (or lack thereof), education, and civil rights. The US has the potential to be a great country once again, but fails to exercise effort.
qiranger 1 year ago
@qiranger I can comment with the same degree of relevance and experience and I can honestly state that the United States, in most areas of the country, has done more in the area of civil rights, recognition of minorities, promotion and acceptance of alternative lifestyles than any other nation on this planet at any given time. I've seen this "gay teen suicide" fad come and go many times over the years, much of which is merely trendy hyperbole manufactured by an agenda driven media.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts "Gay teen suicide fad"??? Really? There is no reason anyone should be bullied into thinking their only option is killing themselves.
qiranger 1 year ago
@qiranger When it comes to something as personal as suicide your options are only limited as your imagination. I can think of a million reasons to knock yourself off. But I can think a millions more on why one would refrain. Homosexuals, among other types, have been killing themselves for thousands of years, for various reasons. The focus of "bully induced" suicide by teen homosexuals is merely being highlighted amongst a plethora of other reasons. It's the focus upon that is the latest fad.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts Everyone wants to "fit in". Kids generally want to please their parents. When they reach puberty and realise that they are gay, the reason many become depressed is because their parents, and society at large, presses forward the idea that being gay is a bad thing to be. As they have no control over their sexuality, they are made to feel they are a huge disappointment to their folks. The bullying on top is just the icing on the depression cake...
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Because whichever way the kid turns, he sees only homophobia and hatred, he feels trapped. He may not be able to tell his parents for fear of being disowned, and has to wake each day with the dread fear that he is most likely going to get beaten up again, and can do nothing about it.
So, it's not a kid's homosexuality itself that forces him to kill himself, but the reactions of other people around him that force him into utter despair.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
A fad, btw, is a Nintendo Wii, or new Reebok trainers, not taking your own life. A kid doesn't think, "Hmm, that kid along the street killed himself last week. That seems like a cool thing to do. I'm doing nothing else this weekend, I think I'll join him". He kills himself because he just wants his misery and pain to end, and can see no other way out.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton Same concept can be applied to another deviation society deems as anti-social, abnormal, immoral, maladaptive, alternative or inconsequential, etc.. In the USA, homosexual behavior has been normed, accepted and almost encouraged as another expression. The problem lies with the individual and being comfortable in their skin. Many homosexuals appear uncomfortable with their preferences, choices or nature. But most seem pretty gay & open. It's a hyped issue here seeking attention.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts A fad? What a foolish, repugnant statement, mingled in circular reasoning. Do you have the audacity to tell a family, face to face, whose kid committed suicide that it was a fad? I highly doubt it. Trolls like you only have the "courage" to say such vial garbage via the relative anonymity of the internet. In all other circumstances, you most likely hide under your mother's skirt. Try reading a book and educate yourself on acceptable social behaviour.
TeenTwinkTween 1 year ago 10
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@TeenTwinkTween Teen suicide is not a fad, Teeny Bop. Suicide in general numbers (per 100,000) is a constant that hasn't changed over the years in the US. What I stated was the focus, the media highlight on the homosexual or bullying aspect of teen suicide, was a fad. And it is. Want gun control? Focus on teen suicide w/ guns. Want stricter drug laws? Focus on teen suicide w/ drugs. Want to promote a "gay" agenda? Focus on teen homo suicide. Crtitical thinking required when reading my posts
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts (When it comes to something as personal as bullying your options are only limited as your imagination. I can think of a million reasons to knock a queer off. But I can think of millions more on why one would refrain. Heteros, as a type, have been killing non-heteros for thousands of years, for conformist reasons. The focus of "bully enabled" conformity by teen heterosexuals is merely being denied for a plethora of other reasons. It's the industry that is the latest fad.
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099 Homosexuals have been raping and forcibly buggering heterosexuals for thousands of years as well. A form of dominance and forced submission of the heterosexual to the homosexual. I can think of millions of reason to deny this. Shame, fear of being viewed as feminized, etc.. But if the media suddenly focused on this incessant crime against heteros, I would wonder as to whether this was a fad or a form of focused "gay bashing." Wouldn't you?
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts Rapists are rapists. Does your hate and fear of people make you horny? Point blank, I want to know, because that is how you cast non-heteros. So, are you sitting at your keyboard stroking your hate-on at this message, thinking you're provoking me or not? I've met plenty like you, "man". Apologies to Rob for my negativity, since as a man he's clearly above this discussion. Me, I'm a little nicked up from life, I've long ago learned I like to fight. ;-)
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099 Bullies are bullies. Don't you think that if the media was focusing on (homosexual) rape, specified, like it is focusing on (homosexual) bullying, specified, something would be amiss in your conspiratorial mind? You failed to address this legitimate question. Instead all you asked is, if I'm "horny" and "stroking."
I mean, please? For the love of decency, do not fit in with the common homosexual stereotype. You can do much better than that.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts I'm not sure in my conspiratorial mind what to make of your silly straw man, as my hetero-sexist conspiracy manual isn't handy, but as for "homosexual stereotypes" thanks for not spelling out the VERY common factor while giving a useful example. What would I do without you, big daddy? I don't care what anyone says, guys like you aren't a dime a dozen in discussions involving us gays. Bullying us is so USEFUL, it wins one such security, eh? Prove my point much?
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099 You're dodged that legitimate question one last time. Of course, you won't answer it. By doing so it would underline my very simple point and you're smart enough to know it. You are making a special pleading in your case and I called you out on it. Fail.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@kern0099 Bullies are bullies. Don't you think that if the media was focusing on (homosexual) rape, specified, like it is focusing on (heterosexual) bullying, specified, something would be amiss in your conspiratorial mind? You failed to address this legitimate question. Instead all you asked is, if I'm "horny" and "stroking."
I mean, please? For the love of decency, do not fit in with the common homosexual stereotype. You can do much better than that.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@qiranger I fear the US, and the UK alike, have lost any socialist ideas in recent generations. Both the US Democrats and the UK Labour Party have swung right of centre, implementing only the plans that bring in profits and privatisation. So long as the big money rolls in for the fat cats, everyone else can sink or swim. Any kind of care system that requires funding from the state is left sadly lacking.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
because theysprayus and haarp us
godsfool713 1 year ago
@godsfool713 ?
I'm sorry, but your comment makes no sense.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton because of chemtrails 16 heavy metals and molds and fungus, the H.A.A.R.P. THE electromagnetic field upset brain waves
godsfool713 1 year ago
@godsfool713 I see. Thank you for the clarification. :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton You look fetching in your tinfoil hat, dear! Lovelerly..:-D
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099 It's worked for me so far, but do you think it looks better *with* the ostrich feather, or without?
;-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Such a strongly intelligent video! Firstly, you made me feel deeply how important it is for gay people to be able to marry their 'significant other', and to be happy like the others can be happy. Then, your explanation, step by step, of the experiences in a gay child's life was a pleasure to listen to, because of its consistency.
Fav'ed
dewinthemorning 1 year ago
@dewinthemorning Thank you very much! I'm glad you liked it. I just ramble on and hope some of it makes sense! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
And many many many members of the Ancient Roman armies were bisexual and the Ancient greeks too, so the U.S. needs to shut the fuck up about gays ruining the military
XforeverlongingX 1 year ago
@XforeverlongingX and those ancient greeks and romans were tough motherfuckers
XforeverlongingX 1 year ago
@XforeverlongingX True enough! And the Japanese Samurai actually encouraged gay lovers into their ranks, the reasoning being that if you had your lover at your side in battle, you would fight so much harder to protect them! It makes sense.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Most of the shit comes from religion. Kirk Cameron, that piece of shit actor himself is one of the loudest and most adamant anti-gay dude out there. And honestly, you're either christian or you're not, muslim or ur not jewish or ur not. If you're christian, you believe pretty much everything that the westboro baptist church does. Because their interpretation of their shitty Bible is quite accurate
XforeverlongingX 1 year ago
@XforeverlongingX There's no doubt that religion has held back many advances in human endeavours, and continues to do so. As an atheist myself, I have yet to see anything positive come from religion that couldn't be done, probably better, without it. You only have to look at African Christian "charities". "Here, read this bibble scribble and you can have a piece of bread!"
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Thank you , Rob
mchlboy 1 year ago
@mchlboy Thank you for watching and commenting, Michael! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
I don't know where to start really, it depends on what your surrounding society's like and how you see yourself, but yes suicide most certainly can be avoided and rather than shrugging it off the governments should be doing something about it.
P.s The eye rolling at 5:04 was hilarious :p
hemeanseverything2me 1 year ago
@hemeanseverything2me Thanks Tom! You are fortunate that you live in a more accepting society, and, like me, haven't had to suffer parents who readily castigate or even disown their own gay children. We are the lucky ones. Most of the kids who write to me on YouTube with coming out problems are American, but I'm not berating all Americans - just their leaders. As many of my subscribers are American, I did wonder if I would annoy them with this vid, but most seem to agree change is needed.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Thank you for speaking out on this subject, Rob. I must say that I'm truly at a loss of words to express my anger and frustration for those GLBT kids, only a few years younger than myself.
I would like to see the GLBT and other rational thinking people unite, and impeach the bigots that run this country. As mad as I am, I have hope that the future will be a better time for every human being.
TeenTwinkTween 1 year ago
@TeenTwinkTween Justin, we all hope and strive for that kind of society that accepts people for who they are, regardless of differences. Sadly though, the Human Ape still likes to live in tribes, and repel all "outsiders". That's why people so readily pledge allegiance to their church group, sports team, or college fraternities.
We have not moved that far from the chimpanzees who throw rocks at each other because they live in a different part of the forest.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton You're correct, Rob. Our prefrontal cortex hasn't yet evolved to the point of true logical thinking. Of course, this brings me back to my original contention...currently, the vast majority of homophobes are religious. I feel if we're to make any progress, we must try to educate these people, even if they will not listen. Religion has been forcing itself on society for nearly 2000 years; now, it's our turn to try reasoning with them, and not put up with their vile garbage.
TeenTwinkTween 1 year ago 2
@TeenTwinkTween I agree with many aspects of your comment, especially the education of discriminative religion. But one question, how do you educate using logic to someone who absolutely refuses to use it? Though i do believe our brains have evolved truly capable of logically thinking, its just some ignorant individuals would rather rely on tradition and and their brainwashing than thinking in a rational manner!
strikenetter 1 year ago
@strikenetter People who refuse to *use* logic can't be taught, unfortunately. I was making an overall gross generalization. I just read in today's local paper that public school attendance is at an all-time low, since many parents are "teaching" their kids at home. It's a recipe for bigotry and ignorance, since the majority of home-schooled kids have ultra-religious parents, using wacky websites and the bible as their education guide. It's maddening!
TeenTwinkTween 1 year ago
@TeenTwinkTween I know exactly what you mean! Conserpedia is a site a lot of Christian home school kids use.
strikenetter 1 year ago
bullying been going on for decades and gay kids been killing themselves for a long time but the American Media never really picked up on it until recently with 7 gay teens killing themselves in a span of 3 weeks it seriously is scary.....
we all need to do our part in helping GLBTQ Youth out there....and the school system needs to address this problem cause gay kids have it worst in school
I hope now with so much attention getting put on his subject the issue will finally get address
gilbertblaze 1 year ago
@gilbertblaze We can but hope, Gilbert. I know it's not a new thing, and I've practically been accused of 'jumping on the bandwagon'. but my whole channel has always been largely devoted to the problems facing gay youth and the coming out process. It's only a few months since I made the video, 'How many more kids must die?' on the same subject. I guess I am more passionate about it because of reading so many sad stories from kids who PM me, so it's become more personal to me...
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
One lad wrote to me last week saying when he came out, his parents put him into a 'Jesus Camp' but he was roped to a bed so that his "gay demons" couldn't affect the other kids. He was only released for meals or for a mass exorcism ceremony, where he was held down whilst Elders of his church read Latin over him, and spoke in tongues. When that didn't work, his father paid for a prostitute to 'straighten him out'....
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
That was when he ran away and hasn't seen his family since. He is thankfully now in a good, supportive household, but is suffering from depression, and has suicidal thoughts.
Change does happen, but it's so painfully slow, and meanwhile the death rate goes up.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Mass allows gay marriage and protects its gay citizens.
Also "A lie told often enough becomes truth" Vladimir Lenin. Lenin and Goebbels seemed to understand how to trick the masses.
Shydrow 1 year ago
@Shydrow I'm pleased that a few states already have moved forward. I've no doubt that one day, marriage will no longer be an issue anywhere in the western world. The UK still only has Civil Unions, so I'm not holding Britain up as being any better. Ironically, if a man and woman want a Civil Union, they can't have one. They are specifically for same sex couples. We are still the "lesser beings" as long as we accept scraps from the table rather than full equality.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton That makes no sense. How can you have civil unions and not let straight couples get married under it? Wanna know something I'm going to go to England one day if i ever meet the right person and demand a civil union. Not that it will be very effective me being American and all but I'm sure the point will be made about the silliness of it all and stop the pussy footing and make marriage for both. As well as civil unions cause marriage seems like a dirty institution now.
Shydrow 1 year ago
Actually teen suicide is quite low in the USA and the numbers per 100,000 has remained fairly consistent over the years. One can use these statistics to push any agenda you wish. From drug prohibition, gun owner controls, homosexual agendas, anti-bullying legislation, religious prosyletizing (spelling?), psychiatric snitch interventions, taxpayer funded midnight basketball, etc.. Overall, it's disturbing. But I wouldn't buy into the alarmist hype. These faddish reactions, I've seen, come & go.
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts I'm not pushing an agenda though, nor do I think it's anything new under the sun. I posted a video last year on the same subject, and things don't change. When I was 19, a 16 year old boy I knew who was petrified of telling his snooty uber-christian parents he was gay, walked up to the nearby railway line and layed his neck across the line until a train cut his head off. Local papers quoted his mother as saying, "He was worried about exam results".
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
The point is that gay kids are driven to hate themselves because of the bigoted society they grow up in. The bullying, if it occurs, is the final straw, so to speak.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@RobNorthampton Could it possibly be that perhaps many homosexuals kill themselves because they disdain the way they are? Much like the despair an alcoholic reaches when they can no longer "control" their drinking. On the other hand, me thinks such people are depressed to begin with and their homosexuality is merely a symptom and not the cause of their suicidal tendencies. BTW: Most homosexuals in the US are happy, otherwise well adjusted people. The practice is almost encouraged here these days
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
@FaganRoberts The fad is hetero-normative religious agenda masquerading as legitimate dialogue. There was never a time in modern America where homophobia was such a rewarding and profitable enterprise as it is now. These culture wars, the very thing that seems to inform your libertarianism as a call to "eradicate government" are a smoke screen, like your posts here. Shouldn't you be self stimulating to Atlas Shrugged or something?
kern0099 1 year ago
I'm extremely lucky to have both an American passport and an Irish passport...I'm planning on moving out of the USA as soon as I can. In the end, I'm going to denounce my citizenship.
ciannagh 1 year ago
@ciannagh But what about the coffee!? :-)
It's OK, I'm being flippant because I just watched your St Quentin vid :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Thanks Rob, I appreciate the tone in your vid since someone needs to call the alarm. The way I see it the political landscape has taken a structure of proto-fascism here. Bush absconded, and created a power vacuum on the right. This vacuum is one where "leadership" in the American sense is impossible, since it's carried out and utilized by committees who are basically in the shadows and calling the shots for corporations. Most people I know here agree, whether left or right, however..(cont'd)
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099 We disagree due to miseducation over the last 30 years fueled by "culture war" based propaganda. Meanwhile, the deregulation push created political power that thrives on undermining the quality of life since we are just consumers, and don't deserve any civil life. That can all be privatized, you see! Long story short, we are all being influenced by forces that do not answer to us, at any point in the political process, in fact the process meant to help only hurts us all. (cont'd)
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099 Divisivness like this has become very useful to both parties, since they are both "conservative" (whatever that means anymore) Obama has turned the left to the right, and the most important card in his hand he used is GLBT's. He is using us to undermine everyone's ability to legislate without the influence of capitol, complete with their spreadsheets, 5 year plans, etc. We are offical scapegoats and political pariahs because of the last two admins, Sorry for the long post, peace Rob!
kern0099 1 year ago
@kern0099 There is no need to apologise for commenting, Adam. I always appreciate people's input, otherwise, I'm talking to myself, so naturally, I appreciate yours. :-)
I agree with you, because it is much the same here. There really is no 'people party' any more. They are all geared towards privatising everything they can, and hedging all responsibilities towards the people paying the taxes.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
I love your videos Rob. I really am on the verge of moving to Japan, China or Europe.
coolsteven2 1 year ago
@coolsteven2 Thanks Steven! I'd make it Europe if I were you. China and Japan are not renowned for their enlightened societal attitudes :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Our societies experience an increased stratification and marginalisation of people, and the bar for normality is lowered (or hightened, depending on your perspective).
I think the world- and humane view put forward in the Venus Project and e.g. Zeitgeist: Addendum is worth persuing.
Empathy is, by some, consigned to the scrapheap. When we aren't epathic, we're divided as a people. A divided people can be ruled by whoever has the resources and percieved gain to do so.
Peace.
NielsC68 1 year ago
@NielsC68 You are right. A prime example is that 50 years ago, everyone knew their neighbours, and they cared and looked out for each other. Today, most people barely know the names of the people next door.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
Excellent vlog Rob...
live and let live..... that's my motto
twish1999 1 year ago
@twish1999 Thank you Trish! We all know there is no 'side' to you, and we love you for it! All hail the Queen of the Nutters! :-) x
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
I came across the realization earlier this week that when I was that age, the main reason I had felt the way I did was that I had been brought up to think that homosexuality was some sort of super-rare case, and that I would be lucky if I grew up and even met one other person like me. Then there was game theory factor; who is the first to drop their guard? It seemed as though I would never meet someone who I could relate to and make me incredibly lonely for years.
FangFiftyFive 1 year ago
@FangFiftyFive I understand completely. I was raised in a small market town, and gay people seemed as rare as hens' teeth! As a teen, I felt I was something to be ashamed of, and kept my 'secret' for years, dating a string of girls in an effort to 'fit in'. Thanks goodness I moved farther afield and discovered there was life after boobies! :-)
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
I remember when I was young and heard this contempt-laden 'It's sssssick!!' when the subject of homosexuality came up at home. I think I thought at the time there was no way these people would change — not if they'd lived that long already and still thought that way. But here they are, all these years later, absolutely mortified about their attitudes and behaviour back then, and now so positive and embracing — and picking others up on their ignorant comments. How things can change. ;8)
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@TheraminTrees I was just about to leave a pretty negative, hopeless feeling comment. So thanks for shinning a light I needed to see (even though I've said it myself, previously).
It's just that The Barack Obama Justice Department is desperately fighting against a California Federal Judge's ruling against "Don't Ask Don't Tell". His attorney's are actually making tired Republican argument that it would endanger our military preparedness! WTF?
*baffled*
AncientAtheist 1 year ago
@AncientAtheist Hey John. Yes it's been a great disappointment to see Obama move in slo-mo on so many things he has the intelligence to apply himself too aggressively, like equality issues. Some of what he said prior to his appointment sent out the message that he'd be on a go-slow. It was couched in pragmatism at the time — kind of, 'Allow bigots to boil gradually rather than chuck them straight in boiling water'. But all the initiatives I've seen so far are coming from the public ....
TheraminTrees 1 year ago
@AncientAtheist Hi John! We have discussed it before, and I do believe that worldwide, things have got much better, and hopefully will continue to do so. It's just that sometimes, trying to make a couple of steps forward seem like walking in treacle! Sometimes change comes from public attitude, and sometimes from legislation, but either way, we seem to flip-flop forward somehow.
I read a report on Obama promising change, whilst at the same time the Justice Dept. were ringing alarm bells! Tsk!
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
@TheraminTrees My own parents weren't vehemently homophobic, but I do remember 'comments' my mum made about gay people when I was a kid. We had a gay neighbour, and when I was 7 or 8 she said, "Don't go near that man. He's a bit ..funny". I didn't understand, because he always seemed a nice enough chap to me. But of course, their generation weren't told anything about differing sexualities, so had to form their own conclusions from the homophobic society they grew up in....
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
However, when I came out in the '70's, they had already changed with the times, and they have been my biggest supporters and best friends ever since. They still are, even in their Eighties. My dad told me once, "There were gay blokes in the army when I did my National Service (1946-8) We all knew, but nobody cared. They did their thing and we did ours". It's a pity that attitude can't be more widespread 60 years on...
RobNorthampton 1 year ago
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conclusivebeginning 1 year ago
@conclusivebeginning I don't think even that would change them, Ryan. They are so blinded by their own bigotry, they'd probably rejoice that the evil gay one had died! There are some seriously fucked up people about.
RobNorthampton 1 year ago