I have this on VHS and now on DVD. And if it comes out on Blu-ray I will buy it! This is an absolutely remarkable performance of Monteverdi's classic. (Same goes to Ponelle's/Harnoncourt's Poppea) I wish they released the audio as well...
As an opera movie, it is imaginative and still seems fresh. Why nowaday's directors can't do staging like this? Modernism is not the answer when it comes to reneissance music. Thanx for the upload!
Superb version of this masterpiece! I wonder if it inspired Savall in part later in time. The two versions are marvelous. The only defects I found (for me) in this was the presence of a clergyman dressed a la mode of four centuries later in the beginning (why?) and the sound of the orchestra seemed too Muted. The basso (Charon) was a real Basso! Bravi tutti ! Many thanks to you, Veraeikon !
After listening to Savall's and Alessandrini's renditions, this prologio sounds rather heavy: by the way, they were at the very begenning of Renassance/Baroque re-discovering ;)
Opera evolved from court masques, so there are elements of the masque in this staging. Narrators are used to set up scenes, sets are 2 dimensional as if staged in a palace hall and the audience is invited to view themselves as guests of the Prince of Mantua. I see no attempt at alienation, rather an effort to bring the past to a new audience.
Coloro che ebbero la fortuna di poter assistere alla prima rappresentazione de "L'Orfeo" di Claudio Monteverdi su libretto di Alessandro Striggio junior, molto probabilmente non lo sapevano ancora, ma sarebbero stati da lì a poco testimoni di un evento che avrebbe cambiato radicalmente la storia della musica, dell'opera e del teatro.
Grazie Veraeikon per averci fatto conoscere questa versione che assieme a quella di Savall è senz'altro la migliore.
I did not mean "alienation", but distance in relation to object of art. As Brecht argued, a distance that takes the viewer to become conscious of its role as an observer. The objective is the opposite of alienation. (As I wrote with the help of an online translator, he translated "distancing" as "alienation" and I did not fix this error). : o /
I watched this Orfeo when I read the Nikolaus Harnoncourt's "The Discourse of the Sounds - Paths to a new musical understanding" by N. Harnoncourt (1982) and when the historicist interpretation has not yet had many followers. It was fantastic to see how historical knowledge and creativity could produce modern stagings, as the Brechtian sense of alienation (as we see the audience sit up, etc..) or the interaction between the musicians of the orchestra and the characters. Wonderful!
I saw the trilogy of the three operas of Monteverdi directed by Harnoncourt and Jean-Pierre Ponnelle in 1988 and today I find them insurmountable. Although they have appeared over the years many other interpretations and stagings, these are undoubtedly the best! (It is probable that a certain nostalgia has influence on my own preferences, but still ...) Of course, when I could buy them on DVD, zás ... I bought them ;-)
I really think that La Musica is performed appropriately here, but the conductor may have taken the interpretive route a little too far. I've studied the original publication of the score and Monteverdi did not indicate any instrumental change in the ritornello. I mean, c'mon... ritornello = refrain .... Monteverdi probably would have called it "vario strumento ritornello", or something, if he wanted the ritornello to have a different essence each time.
I find it really annoying that the director keeps cutting back to the orchestra. The orchestra is not visually important, the music is important - closeups of the musicians is not and it's distracting and obnoxious. I hope there's a version with director who knows what he's doing. :(
@avintar don't forget that this recording was made in 1978 when the use of period instruments was something completely unthinkable. Harnoncourt and Ponnelle re-discovered Monteverdi for the stage and using the right instruments was a part of it..
@MrConductor1984 If the director was concerned with extrapolation about the instruments he could have done a documentary on the topic. This is just shoddy work. It's already far from ideal to film or tape a live stage performance, since the two mediums have strengths and weaknesses which do not compliment each other well, but it's a damn shame they let a moron direct the recording of this performance.
@avintar Do you not consider calling the director a moron a bit harsh, considering you know nothing about the limitations he/she (although more likely he, considering the date) was operating under? Also, I think it is inappropriate to apply modern standards and tastes to a recording that is over 30 years old.
@festusthefiend I may be out of line in calling him a moron, perhaps some of the film was damaged and he needed to fill screen time with *something* or he may have been directed by the producer(s) of the piece to include the offending pieces of video. But there is no way you can reasonably say that the director has done a good job creating an immersive experience for the audience.
@ovulationstation I do know what I'm watching, thanks. Monteverdi is an incredible composer and one of the first composers of Opera. He is credited with making the whole genre popular and creating its "conventions". Orfeo is an incredible work which deserves better treatment than this. I am studying broadcast production, so I know a thing or two about direction and editing and how that fits with effective storytelling.
@avintar You're the one who is so absolutely oblivious that you think this is a film of a live performance. I guess you've never seen a real filming of a live performance for comparison.
But let's be realistic here. Ponelle was a gay man, and the real reason you're attacking him with these specious lies (why can't you even say what's wring with it?) is because you hate gays, and you don't just come out and say it because you're ashamed of yourself, so you're a hypocrite too,
@HConstantine 1) I didn't say it was film or a live performance. I said that live theatre performance and film don't blend well in the first place. The production is obviously intended to appear as a theatrical performance of the work whether it was shot "live" or not. For clarification, you wouldn't actually be able to tell if it was "live" or not, only whether it was in front of an audience or not - they mean different things. Perhaps you could use a dictionary next time you don't get it.
@HConstantine 2) Your straw man argument aside (Who cares if he's gay? - gay people do great things and horrible things all the time. You're the only one who seems to think it matters). And I already stated what was wrong: the director continues to cut back to superfluous material. Yes, this could be an "artistic" choice or something the director had no say in at all, but it doesn't change that it is an ineffective way to tell the story or present Monteverdi's work.
@HConstantine PS: I should add, since you have trouble with words, what I am stating is an opinion. So I cannot possibly be telling lies. Really, the dictionary is your friend. Try using it.
"L’Orfeo, favola in musica (SV 318), « Orphée, fable en musique ») est un opéra de Claudio Monteverdi sur un livret du poète Alessandro Striggio (1573-1630), fils du compositeur de même nom, Alessandro Striggio. L’Orfeo est considéré comme l'un des premiers opéras de l’histoire de la musique (le premier étant Daphne de Jacopo Peri, dont la partition a été perdue), à la frontière de plusieurs autres genres musicaux comme le madrigal, la monodie accompagnée, le choral et la symphonie." Wikipédia
Impressionnant, cette mise en scène à Zurich faisait redecouvrir l'Orfeo de Monteverdi, bien qu'aujourd'hui on ferait un autre décor, c'est un document important et je suis heureuse de l'avoir découvert - j'étais trop petite pour le voir en 1978... !
Sorry but this set looks like its something out of a 1930's Errol Flynn movie! Check out the more modern versions especially with Keenlyside as Orfeo!
@Nykytyne2 Probably true, but there was no Historically Informed Performance movement going on in 1978. I do think, however, that the guy acting like the lutenist in the Nimph song pre-saged "air guitar" of the 1980s - brilliant facial expressions worthy of any lead guitarist! Perhaps we can view this particular performance as a crossdroads in musical aesthetics - both a throwback to those innocent ideological yesteryears dominated by German musicology, and a signpost to the future of metal.
I have this on VHS and now on DVD. And if it comes out on Blu-ray I will buy it! This is an absolutely remarkable performance of Monteverdi's classic. (Same goes to Ponelle's/Harnoncourt's Poppea) I wish they released the audio as well...
As an opera movie, it is imaginative and still seems fresh. Why nowaday's directors can't do staging like this? Modernism is not the answer when it comes to reneissance music. Thanx for the upload!
lambbroadway 2 months ago
Superb version of this masterpiece! I wonder if it inspired Savall in part later in time. The two versions are marvelous. The only defects I found (for me) in this was the presence of a clergyman dressed a la mode of four centuries later in the beginning (why?) and the sound of the orchestra seemed too Muted. The basso (Charon) was a real Basso! Bravi tutti ! Many thanks to you, Veraeikon !
FRAGIORGIO1 2 months ago
After listening to Savall's and Alessandrini's renditions, this prologio sounds rather heavy: by the way, they were at the very begenning of Renassance/Baroque re-discovering ;)
MisterPapageno 3 months ago
...and this is the beginning of a new style of music, one that will last for 100 yrs or so. Baroque.
estesoyojajaja 4 months ago
Por años he querido ver esta maravilla, es simplemente perfecta.
Youkali67 4 months ago
¡¡Magnífica puesta en escena!! Una verdadera joya. Muchas gracias.
PaulusLXXX 5 months ago
Opera evolved from court masques, so there are elements of the masque in this staging. Narrators are used to set up scenes, sets are 2 dimensional as if staged in a palace hall and the audience is invited to view themselves as guests of the Prince of Mantua. I see no attempt at alienation, rather an effort to bring the past to a new audience.
sealforvr 5 months ago
Mantova 24 febbraio 1607.
Coloro che ebbero la fortuna di poter assistere alla prima rappresentazione de "L'Orfeo" di Claudio Monteverdi su libretto di Alessandro Striggio junior, molto probabilmente non lo sapevano ancora, ma sarebbero stati da lì a poco testimoni di un evento che avrebbe cambiato radicalmente la storia della musica, dell'opera e del teatro.
Grazie Veraeikon per averci fatto conoscere questa versione che assieme a quella di Savall è senz'altro la migliore.
Leporello682 6 months ago
God, I love this Opera and Performance!
65maho 6 months ago
Pour moi, c'est le meilleur disque que'Harnoncourt a fait de toute sa vie.
catho58 6 months ago
I did not mean "alienation", but distance in relation to object of art. As Brecht argued, a distance that takes the viewer to become conscious of its role as an observer. The objective is the opposite of alienation. (As I wrote with the help of an online translator, he translated "distancing" as "alienation" and I did not fix this error). : o /
JosePedroMoutinho 6 months ago
I watched this Orfeo when I read the Nikolaus Harnoncourt's "The Discourse of the Sounds - Paths to a new musical understanding" by N. Harnoncourt (1982) and when the historicist interpretation has not yet had many followers. It was fantastic to see how historical knowledge and creativity could produce modern stagings, as the Brechtian sense of alienation (as we see the audience sit up, etc..) or the interaction between the musicians of the orchestra and the characters. Wonderful!
JosePedroMoutinho 6 months ago
I saw the trilogy of the three operas of Monteverdi directed by Harnoncourt and Jean-Pierre Ponnelle in 1988 and today I find them insurmountable. Although they have appeared over the years many other interpretations and stagings, these are undoubtedly the best! (It is probable that a certain nostalgia has influence on my own preferences, but still ...) Of course, when I could buy them on DVD, zás ... I bought them ;-)
JosePedroMoutinho 6 months ago
I really think that La Musica is performed appropriately here, but the conductor may have taken the interpretive route a little too far. I've studied the original publication of the score and Monteverdi did not indicate any instrumental change in the ritornello. I mean, c'mon... ritornello = refrain .... Monteverdi probably would have called it "vario strumento ritornello", or something, if he wanted the ritornello to have a different essence each time.
paintedcar 9 months ago
Beautiful!!!! I love this version!!!!!!
eclipsze1 10 months ago
I find it really annoying that the director keeps cutting back to the orchestra. The orchestra is not visually important, the music is important - closeups of the musicians is not and it's distracting and obnoxious. I hope there's a version with director who knows what he's doing. :(
avintar 1 year ago
@avintar don't forget that this recording was made in 1978 when the use of period instruments was something completely unthinkable. Harnoncourt and Ponnelle re-discovered Monteverdi for the stage and using the right instruments was a part of it..
MrConductor1984 1 year ago 11
@MrConductor1984 If the director was concerned with extrapolation about the instruments he could have done a documentary on the topic. This is just shoddy work. It's already far from ideal to film or tape a live stage performance, since the two mediums have strengths and weaknesses which do not compliment each other well, but it's a damn shame they let a moron direct the recording of this performance.
avintar 11 months ago
@avintar Do you not consider calling the director a moron a bit harsh, considering you know nothing about the limitations he/she (although more likely he, considering the date) was operating under? Also, I think it is inappropriate to apply modern standards and tastes to a recording that is over 30 years old.
festusthefiend 10 months ago
@festusthefiend I may be out of line in calling him a moron, perhaps some of the film was damaged and he needed to fill screen time with *something* or he may have been directed by the producer(s) of the piece to include the offending pieces of video. But there is no way you can reasonably say that the director has done a good job creating an immersive experience for the audience.
avintar 7 months ago
@avintar I hope there are more comments from viewers who know what they're watching.
ovulationstation 9 months ago
@ovulationstation I do know what I'm watching, thanks. Monteverdi is an incredible composer and one of the first composers of Opera. He is credited with making the whole genre popular and creating its "conventions". Orfeo is an incredible work which deserves better treatment than this. I am studying broadcast production, so I know a thing or two about direction and editing and how that fits with effective storytelling.
avintar 7 months ago
@avintar The director is the who decides what is visually important, not random, tasteless schmucks wandering around Youtube.
HConstantine 9 months ago
@HConstantine You've obviously never, ever done any work in video or television production. So, I'd say you must be talking about yourself.
avintar 7 months ago
@avintar You're the one who is so absolutely oblivious that you think this is a film of a live performance. I guess you've never seen a real filming of a live performance for comparison.
But let's be realistic here. Ponelle was a gay man, and the real reason you're attacking him with these specious lies (why can't you even say what's wring with it?) is because you hate gays, and you don't just come out and say it because you're ashamed of yourself, so you're a hypocrite too,
HConstantine 7 months ago
@HConstantine 1) I didn't say it was film or a live performance. I said that live theatre performance and film don't blend well in the first place. The production is obviously intended to appear as a theatrical performance of the work whether it was shot "live" or not. For clarification, you wouldn't actually be able to tell if it was "live" or not, only whether it was in front of an audience or not - they mean different things. Perhaps you could use a dictionary next time you don't get it.
avintar 7 months ago
@HConstantine 2) Your straw man argument aside (Who cares if he's gay? - gay people do great things and horrible things all the time. You're the only one who seems to think it matters). And I already stated what was wrong: the director continues to cut back to superfluous material. Yes, this could be an "artistic" choice or something the director had no say in at all, but it doesn't change that it is an ineffective way to tell the story or present Monteverdi's work.
avintar 7 months ago
@HConstantine PS: I should add, since you have trouble with words, what I am stating is an opinion. So I cannot possibly be telling lies. Really, the dictionary is your friend. Try using it.
avintar 7 months ago
The best version out there. Thanks Veraeikon!
galenct 1 year ago 2
My favourite version. Everything is perfect - voices, manners, orchestra, stage...
Many thanks for sharing it!
hmelisuneli 1 year ago 2
c'est vrai que ca ressemble beaucoup à Mozart .... pourquoi pas stravinsky aussi -_-' ....
pogodu59 1 year ago
@pogodu59 parce qu'ils sont tres differents (je n'ai pas l'accent egue dans mon ordinateur, parce que he suis americain)
chadbro97 1 year ago
unfortunatly I only speak english and thus wont be able to enjy this to the full extent so is there anywhere I can watch this with subtitles
oreolvrs 1 year ago
le premier grand opéra, c'est pétillant ca me rappelle mozart
suzanneramdane 1 year ago
Thanks for sharing. Monteverdi was fabulous!
cgordonjr 1 year ago 5
Due sole parole: il migliore!
pientinus 1 year ago
"L’Orfeo, favola in musica (SV 318), « Orphée, fable en musique ») est un opéra de Claudio Monteverdi sur un livret du poète Alessandro Striggio (1573-1630), fils du compositeur de même nom, Alessandro Striggio. L’Orfeo est considéré comme l'un des premiers opéras de l’histoire de la musique (le premier étant Daphne de Jacopo Peri, dont la partition a été perdue), à la frontière de plusieurs autres genres musicaux comme le madrigal, la monodie accompagnée, le choral et la symphonie." Wikipédia
paroisseperonne80200 1 year ago
@paroisseperonne80200 mais il est le premier opéra dans un style modern, oui?
chadbro97 1 year ago
Impressionnant, cette mise en scène à Zurich faisait redecouvrir l'Orfeo de Monteverdi, bien qu'aujourd'hui on ferait un autre décor, c'est un document important et je suis heureuse de l'avoir découvert - j'étais trop petite pour le voir en 1978... !
Baerli70 1 year ago
Sorry but this set looks like its something out of a 1930's Errol Flynn movie! Check out the more modern versions especially with Keenlyside as Orfeo!
marksted 2 years ago
@marksted looks like a post modern horror
HConstantine 7 months ago
Great musicians and beautiful set, but the soprano really needs to kill the vibrato.
Nykytyne2 2 years ago
@Nykytyne2 Probably true, but there was no Historically Informed Performance movement going on in 1978. I do think, however, that the guy acting like the lutenist in the Nimph song pre-saged "air guitar" of the 1980s - brilliant facial expressions worthy of any lead guitarist! Perhaps we can view this particular performance as a crossdroads in musical aesthetics - both a throwback to those innocent ideological yesteryears dominated by German musicology, and a signpost to the future of metal.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
Oui, je n'entends pas de cornets non plus. D'ailleurs, ça n'en a pas vraiment l'allure.
Mais j'ai bien l'impression qu'Harnoncourt s'est raté ici!!
Erismena 2 years ago
magnifico, spettacolare, eccezionale,
monteverdi-harnoncourt coppia ben riuscita!!
giaenonancora 2 years ago
ottimo!!! bellissimo!!!
giovmin 2 years ago 2
I might be wrong, but... I hear trumpets in the upper parts, rather than cornettos ?!
AlainNaigeon 2 years ago