10 - Oscillating Stator Permanent Magnet motor.

[eloid777]

watch ... /watch?v=XRaqwJ0jTeM

you using the wrong config of magnet you need axial/ diametric set up

watch the video Kundel Magnetic Motor Prototype 1 360View

[linuxaddict11111]

by the way it would appear that yours works better than theirs ... v=TdozRv0XOjU at 5:20

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@linuxaddict11111 Ha! Yes, I believe it does. And mine didn't even have neodymium magnets! Check my site alt-nrg*org for my new VFPMM proposal. Parts are on order.

[linuxaddict11111]

I don't think a purely mechanical form of this machine will work the way you want it to without some sort of spring. What you have built here reminds me of something I saw called the hummingbird motor -- you should look it up if you haven't seen it. Obviously it takes only a small amount of mechanical input to turn your flywheel. You can attach a small motor + cam to your stator arm to get exact sine motion and attach a much larger generator to the top of your flywheel. This concept does work.

[jbreinhold]

Lol. Props for trying.

[Sone781]

Hahaha! There is no greater motivator than trying to do something that someone says is impossible. I'm rooting for you!

[kawless]

Square wave with a mechanical guide arm?

The arm would have to go up and down at mach 2, at least.

I'd say more like a saw wave.

[gsgkill]

if you can move the stator arm yourself and it works, then it will work when you have the movement right with the cam, that is an obvious deduction.

[MazzprezRec]

SIR I BELIEVE U NEED A STRING MATTER NOT A BOLT OR SCREW TO MAKE A WAVE MOTION

[TTHRftw]

use 2 time's the top and place magnets axross so top , take 0-90-180-270-360°

and bottem 45-135-225-315°

Then take both arms the same length and put the connection to the wood at the same distance .

if you can . dont know if it works :-)

[TheCuged]

A study failed

[2870w2100s]

dude! adjust the damn timing. or change the lever ratio.

[2870w2100s]

dude! adjust the damn timing.

[man1975cba]

Estas en buen camino hay que hacerles algunas mejoras y va a funcionar

[jhunted7667]

your missing one important key factor and that is you will never hit the magnetic resonate frequency with a mechanical acutuator string theory rules here , teslian technology is needed here this is why no one has been able to do it with the right approach it will work , I will giveyou a hint , think outside the box

[ZeroFossilFuel]

@jhunted7667 Build it. Show us.

[jhunted7667]

@ZeroFossilFuel here's your mistake you make no allowance for the bounce of the magnet , your system is too ridget , the magnetic flux density follows the resonate frequency and path of the magnet South Laging behind North leading infront , a magnet that is allowed to spin around the magnet , the fixed arm system is tooo rigid , the problem is the amount of work out of the system will be very little unless like the Diesel engine you have a big one, and instead of having it turn and armature

[jhunted7667]

@ZeroFossilFuel an armature coil is bulit around the motor to catch the flux density changes

[Parent33w]

Have another cheeseburger; it is running out of fuel.

[barrywilliams993]

How much did it cost you to build this useless piece of crap?

[smilisav]

I don't think springs would help much.

Better to try to load upper arm with inverted pendulum, and to set timing of lower arm a bit better.

On the other hand, THEN springs could help.

[bigdaddysdigs1966]

have you tried to use springs on the upper arm with the same bottom cam? maybe that would give you the wave motion that you need

[DoctorLucky1]

i think you are going to haft to put a flexable stator on your machine, its looks like you haft to move the stator rather hard up and down in the beginng. But rather little after it goes to running???!!!P/S keep up the work

[185MrM]

jesus why dont use a arm that push i right moment thru spinning?

[SPAGHETTIMONSTER1]

cancel out one of the fields pos or neg, push, push, push, or pull. pull, pull hee hee, I heard alkaline batt, will work? something in it blocks. good luck cheers

[donepearce]

No matey, the problem is that you don't understand the second law of thermodynamics.

[SPAGHETTIMONSTER1]

yep, block one of the poles and it will work! push, push, push, push, etc.

[tonytvtech]

what your doing is putting in the energy with your hand you will never make that happen from a mechanical connection.. unless its like a motor or solenoid.

[MrSokitumi]

this does work and tesla built one but the american gov stole it and stole his work period ...I am building one in Michigan and go ahead cia russian mob im waiting for you to stop me ....50 cal club member )o

[myjizzureye]

There are no words for your level of nutty.

[malmailbggb]

oh, i hope you don't mind my comment, its not just one form or energy here,

there are at least 3 forces,

1) speed of the flywheel. increase

mass.

2) gravity effects the rotation.

3) force applied by you.

i looks like it should work!!

good luck

[malmailbggb]

excellent work.

i like it,

i was thinking,

maybe attach a pen,

to the arm,

draw a line on the cylinder

up and down,

marking the tube

( paper wrapped round the tube)

to get the pattern ( maybe look like scribble But close to the wave you need

[mrhonda84]

im so sick of stupid people who dont understand science f%*king morons y wouldnt this work i suppose u belive in god to lol

[ZoeMarks]

Why do people persist? These things never work and can't. Fun but pointless.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

You don't do pointless things just for the fun of it?

[ZoeMarks]

Sure do. I post on YouTube!!!

I'm surprised you went to so much effort when it was doomed to failure - or were you trying to show those who didn't know that fact ?

Cheers

[fronkenpoop]

@ZeroFossilFuel If it's pointless... NO.

Equilibrium is not your friend.

[freetubester]

@ZoeMarks I did view a wheel with magnets all pointing out on an angle and the opposite poles were mounted on two curved arms that repelled that wheel fast as hell but I did not see a belt applied for a generator. The arms folded down to stop.

[ZoeMarks]

@freetubester - so was it a working version?

[freetubester]

@ZoeMarks Sorry to take so long getting back. It was working but unless it can do work it is no good. I want to see one belted to a generator/alternator, etc.

[samuraidave1]

frequency magnetic oscillation , turns magnetic feilds on and off. with frequencys, thus imitating coil magnet movments, making electricity without movement.

at a certain frequency the magnetic feild of a manet can be manipulated. so at a figh frequency electricity can be made through magnetic oscillation..

[ZoeMarks]

@samuraidave1 - whatever...

[joyful54]

u jac the machine off .can u think of a cam system that can take the place of your hand. is the battery on top or why is the battery on top.?weight.rpm wise how can it go faster. than your hand? gone bye bye

[bill99959]

SSSHHHEEEZZZZ,,,,you need something that really spins pretty fast with the power to over come coil EMF,,,think it will light a mini-led BY 2525

[adamalden]

HEY!!! Dont change that thing u can make it work easy... Just think a little bit harder and figure it out... U just need to make something turn omething that will turn something that will make that little deal move up and down! TADA! thats easy...

[lassiecox]

Tesla/edison

[PurePower025]

its a SCREAMER!!!! LOL

[adamalden]

dumb

[chapthe]

you have no chance. the only power, that leads to movement is the power of your hand. It will not work at all. The power of the magnet is consumed by the needed magnet movements.

[volcano1d]

hey...my english isn´t the best.I supose u figured the solution out in this 2 years,but here it goes anyway.the only thing u should have done to make it work the way u wanted in the video it was rotateing that thing with the pattern that u pulled off at the end of the video.that way that thing would be sync with the rest

[jabberwock11]

Why do you people insist on wasting your time? Separated magnets have potential energy same as holding a rock above the earth. Once they come together the energy has been used. What you are trying to do is the equivalent of having a rock fall, generate some energy on impact and then magically appear back at the same spot it stated. It's never going to work. However it's your time to waste so keep trying if you want.

[grimmmammoth]

If the pins holes of the connecting link that connects the stator and the control arm where not "fixed" if they had the proper cam "slot" in them would it not midigate the diffrence in the two types of movement? The conecting link wouldn't just rock it would slip back and forth.

[voidows]

LoL the bandages. LoL

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Glad you find humor in my suffering! :-D

[RashadGl]

i have a design for friction free generator. i designed it for a windmill but if your invention works. it means free power the world.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Yes. Wouldn't that be something? Well, keep watching. Gears are still turning in my head.

[darthisaiah]

edison suck! Nikola Tesla. :)

[bobbypatty1]

Use a, "half moon", type cam, (bump), and spring,to position the arm where you want it when you want it!! Have cam or "bump", move arm out of way at entry of "sticky point", and spring will pull it back down at proper moment!! Good Luck!!

[ursuscanine]

Could it be that the distance from the top pivot to the link arm is different than the distance from the bottom pivot to the link arm? I think you might get some bind in there. All the best to your efforts...

[fraglessone]

That looks like it would work better if the magnet on top wasn't so heavy, or the weight on the top arm was balanced.

[gregfuji]

Looking better all the time, keep it up.

[trytobereal]

I believe the road your taking will eventually lead to the road that gets you there. Keep trying! So many people are working on the idea , someday we'll succeed.

[sneakerset]

Strong force,weak force,Electromagnetic force,gravity..super force!Is the event evolving,dissolving, or revolving?Why do humans call it "mother" earth?Dark energy might mean several types of dark matter.The latest theory I've heard is man cannot see the genesis of bright and dark forces because of "cosmic censorship". Maybe it's simple..Life causes cancer.I flunked high school physics but your project is fascinating..Good luck!

[beyondo]

Interesting videos. You could create a better track by replacing the track with a band of paper, and attaching a pen to the bottom arm so the pen draws on the paper.

Then, with the top arm attached to the bottom one, drive the motor with your hand. The bottom arm will plot out it's motion on the paper, and you'll have mapped the exact motion that your hand is using to drive the wheel. Then, use the paper template to create a new track.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Better yet, no track at all. I'm cooking up soething pretty good. just wait a few days.

[apeppink]

"...produce enough energy...", Where's the energy production, the power input to come from? The sun relies on fusion, nuclear plants on fission, your car on chemical combustion. Where's the power input to come from? There has to be a potential energy input from somewhere to cause acceleration, while friction losses must be zero for sustained, constant sped operation.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I don't believe it's extracted energy from nothing. What I believe is it will be energy stumbled upon from as yet untapped sources previously undetectable. Ever hear of Scalar Field Dark Energy? It's theoretical at this point still but I believe we do swim in energy. What it is or what it's called is irrelevant. It's there for the taking if we will ignore conventional "wisdom" and look for it.

[apeppink]

I think I've read or heard about it or something like it. Really, by E=m*(c^2) we're all energy. Strings (if they exist), everything. If you can tap it. Somehow. I don't understand how Thermodynamics, Statistical Mechanics works at the quantum level or even lower,

[apeppink]

below the various Planck limits. But statistics and probability don't care about particle size, they are what they are. So is all this presumably low grade energy somehow recoverable and useful in power production? I don't know. Maybe you(all?) can somehow tap into it. Good luck. Stranger things have happened. After all God ignored statistical mechanics and somehow initially wound up the whole works, whole cosmos(es?). Can't imagine how He did that.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I can't imaging how he did it either. But the more I learn of our cosmos, the more it reveals intelligent design. Consider that not even the "laws" of physics even existed before the creation of our physical world. He started with a blank palate. His options were limitless.

[phoebus1966]

He should get the cam at a wider angle! Anyways - if this is so then he has already prooven that the small effort to kickstart the circular movement resulted in a longtime continuation movement prooves an initial overunity however friction kicks in somehow and/or misalignment.

[apeppink]

Friction losses. Unavoidable. That's the problem. Only things I'm aware of approaching perpetual motion machine status are superconductivity, the orbital motion of planets, etc.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

In any device worth building, frictional losses should be inconsequential. It should produce enough energy to overcome any frictional loss with plenty to spare as useful output. That's why I concern myself much less with friction than I do just getting the damn thing to work. I'm not after perpetual motion. I'm after acceleration. When it does work, it will do so in a spectacular way.

ZFF

[magnetizerenergizer]

You deserve alot of credit,i have been thinking of tis same principle for years. I beleive part of your problem may be in the timing,must be just right. I beleive you have to get itjust at the point where push pull is properly seperated to become a rhythym and starts to pulsate. Also if your diameter was larger it would have more power. Hope my ideas help,will definetly follow your progress

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I believe the apparatus must be such that the timing has a much larger window, not nearly so critical. I'm cooking up something good for the next video. Stay tuned!

[ZeroFossilFuel]

It has also been suggested here to use a spring to achieve a more sinusoidal movement on the stator w/o modifying the bobbin raceway. I might give that a try too. It would be very easy to replace the linkage connecting the two arms with various length U-shaped pieces of coat hanger, even though I believe that would create just one sweet spot RPM.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Give me a day or two to lick my wounds (literally). I'll conduct the tests using the Dewalt drill that I injured myself with and a friction wheel in the chuck to spin the device up to a constant speed each time.

Cheers,

ZFF

[impal808]

why dont you attach a pencile to the bottom arm so you can use that as a scribe. That way when you move it by hand it wiil trace your exact movement on the cam

[ZeroFossilFuel]

That's already beed suggested. Thanks.

[homersparents]

get a better heavier fly wheel that is really round.

[OmegaThe1]

[contd]Also, I guess there needs to be an offset. You need to take measurements before you make anything mechanical. Doing it using a relay to oscillate the arm and using a frequency generator to vary the amplitude/phase/frequency should be easiest IMO. Let me know if you need any help.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

You're right about one thing for sure - I do deflect the stator more at start-up but only because that's how I start it from a standing stop w/o spinning the wheel first. Once in motion the stator deflection remains fairly constant regardless of speed. At least that's how it feels. I think some high speed photography would be easiest to reveal what's going on.

[OmegaThe1]

Did you try it without a load?

What I see is, you oscillate the arm more when the rotor is at rest and is starting up. (It swings more) and as it takes on speed you oscillate it less, but more quickly.

So there is a timing issue. [contd]

[OmegaThe1]

Hi ZFF

You can see the animation I made by clicking my name. (or paste youtube code:DAfqbx96GbQ.

Check the description for details. Hope it will be of use.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

What I'm doing mechanically is pretty much the same with one exception - The roller will be 3-4 times closer to the center of rotation, at the bobbin, so that the rotor magnets have a mechanical advantage over the stator. In your animation the roller is at a mechanical disadvantage.

[invictusj]

very interesting, keep up the good work, thanks for sharing

[poplianil]

Great Job

[poplianil]

Zerofossil ::::: in your next test add counter weights to the levers both up and down so that you offset the weigt of magnet and cam. this will reduce effort for moving up and down and energy loss

[RBare2007]

The reason the motion is different while using your hand is because intuitively and subconsously you make small hand adjustments to compensate, but heres a thought, what if you could create a low power computer that could mimick those adjustments and power it from the rotor, just a thought you understand.

[awaken69]

also, to reduce the overall energy loss of the arm-actuation, you may want to try to integrate a form of oscillation motion into the actuator system, so that it alomst oscillates for itself (flat spring?), and is not depending to be pushed up and down by a fixed copper trail which is probably creating quite some energy loss as you alreday mentioned. of course, the oscillation then needs then to be coupled somehow to the big weel... that would be the funny part of it :-)

[awaken69]

mabye you want to use your oscilloscope to record/visualize the needed motion pattern for the arm, as you move it by hand. you may need some mechanical coupling as with a potentiometer for example for this.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Another good idea. It does have trace storage.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I can also input the rotor position to the 2nd trace with a pickup coil at the perimeter to detect if there are any timing changes I am intuitively making by hand that a fixed mechanical ass'y can't.

[homersparents]

Should it take more force to get the wheel spinning? No. After it is going it will need. Objects in motion tent to what? The only force you need to defeat to get this object moving is friction. Fsubf = coefficient of fric times Normal force. N is basically = weight on level ground. So since Coefficient of friction is way less than 1 the fictional force is always super small. So you should have expected it to be easy to move that HUGE mass. Magnets or no.

[432alx]

Looks like the stator magnet isn't moving as far with the link rod attached as when you move it by hand. Is the link rod adjustable and can it be moved farther out maybe.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

It does move as far. Problem is the frame rate of the USB cam doesn't follow the rapid transition of the lower arm as it does the smooth up and down my hand produces on the upper arm.

[gabydewilde]

Could maybe try a rubber band.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Are you trying to be funny?

[gabydewilde]

no, if I wanted to be funny I would say. We had the blood the sweat and the tears already, the self spinning motor cant be far away.

I was trying to say the block wave could be shaped into a more smooth amplitude by using a spring or a rubber band.

Just popsicle stick it on there and duck tape it in place. hehehe

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Okay. That's an idea. I've got an assortment of some stiff springs I might be able to try in place of the linkage connecting the upper and lower arm. Thanks.

[gabydewilde]

It was just a thought. You are doing great research here btw. Very interesting. Thanks.

[hedonit]

thanks for putting these videos online ZeroFossilFuel

i love the simplicity of your device and the way you think

i see less deflection of your stator when it is hooked up than when you run it by hand

it does not appear to completely cross the spinning magnets

using a single rail wire and a tuning fork shaped guide [with or without 2 bearings] instead of the two rails and 1 bearing, you would get much more deflection on the same basic parts

[ZeroFossilFuel]

OOOOH!!! I LIKE THAT ONE! Only mechanical problem I can see might be to create a swivel for two roller bearings so a small gap could be maintained as the angle changes along the rail. That or allow a larger gap and some slop at the top and bottom of travel. ZFF

[FreeEnergyCentral]

Another idea - instead of the bevel gears - perhaps a belt (like a vacuum cleaner belt) could be used. Using this approach, you would have to set up a circular spinning plate near the actuator handle. Then the shaft of the spinning plate could be connected to the main drive shaft with a belt be cause the belt can twist through 90 degrees.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I am considering something like this for a quick test at some future point.

[FreeEnergyCentral]

Have you considered using a system of bevel gears? My idea is to place a gear to the main shaft so that it rotates with the main wheel. From there, use a bevel gear and shaft to spin a circular plate near the actuator handle - then connect the spinning plate the actuator handle using a connecting rod. This way the timing could be adjusted by simiply drilling a new hole in the spinning plate.....???

I love what you're doing and can't wait to see it work!!!

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Too complicated. Too much time to machine. As I have always stated, if the idea is viable it will produce so much excess energy that it will overcome any frictional losses and spin out of control by itself.

[SatsukiMikata]

Good try! Thanks for sharing! I'll keep a close eye on your movies!

I hope the injuries are too bad. lol

[xiaou2]

I found these: overunity com/index.php/topic,2704.0.htm­l

and lafontegroup com Im no expert, but maybe they can help. Found by reading the Steorn Public Forums.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

One thing I do know for sure. PM fields can not be arranged in any way, shape or form to replicate wind turbines. They would have to be unipolar to do that.

[xiaou2]

Also, I noticed that the arms are metal. That may be

an issues as magnets may have a slight pull to them. Try plastic arms instead.

[xiaou2]

U also may need a solid (non swinging) counterweight, to make the arms as balanced as possible. (weightless)

[ZeroFossilFuel]

I don't think that's a factor here. The weight is very light comparitively.

[PMorphy65]

Have you thought about changing the position of the fulcrum on the lower arm?  I'm sure that will reduce the resistance of the cam movement; although lowering the vertical movement but it sound like you don't need much there. I'm thinking of a cam for the connection of the arms...what do you think?

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Reduces the resistance and the deflection distance of the stator.

[xiaou2]

Connect a marker to the new arm assy, as the rotor spins, you will get the correct pattern drawn on the rotor base.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Now that is a great idea. Thanks!

[432alx]

Yes, and you might find an interesting wave pattern...I wonder how much force is used by your hand versus input from the new arm and bobbin? Thanks for all your work.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

Hard to tell. What I will say is the next rotor will be about twice the diameter leaving the bobbin ass'y the same. This will give much greater rotor:stator mechanical advantage. Right now only 1.67:1. Target 4:1 or greater.

[LiquidMetalBand]

xiaou2, that marker idea is brilliant

[ZeroFossilFuel]

FYI, the next generation test fixture will expand the rotor diameter 50-100% to increase the mechanical advantage of the rotor magnets over the stator control arm. Currently it's only 1.67:1 due to unforeseen variance in raceway construction. May not be enough to overcome frictional losses which as you can see are quite substantial.

[ZeroFossilFuel]

And in case you're wondering, yes I did play around a great deal with the timing of the present ass'y. It did not work regardless of how I adjusted the timing.