The last years of Paulus VI (G.B. Montini 1974-78)

[Rdthemanify]

after Vatican II:

Bl. John XXIII

Venerable Paul VI

Pope John Paul I

Bl. John Paul II

Pope Benedict XVI [now reigning]

[edgarf2011]

I will always remember you Pope Paul VI, Vicar of Christ on earth. Please watch over your successor Pope Benedict XVI. send him good health as he turns 85 this year.

[1970lovemusic]

Thank Heaven for Mgr. Lefebvre.

[MusicPredominates]

Interesting !

[raczinger20]

You traditionalists are so delusional. In today's world, you can't win souls with Middle Age rituals. I was a convert to your faith from another religion. I admire Pope Paul VI because he simplified the Church and brought it closer to the people, to the simple masses. Sheesh, the Church was made to serve people, not kingly Italians in the Curia. Do you think you will be able to get the gospel across with rich robes and expensive tiaras? You win them by understanding where they are!

[Eltsacwenify]

@raczinger20 Yeah clown Masses through vatican 2 are SO much better and simpler to understand than are traditional Masses.

[LilyPearls]

@raczinger20 "The Church was made to serve people... do you think you will be able to get the gospel across with rich robes and expensive tiaras?"

No, the Church was made to serve God. To be the way we can worship God and enjoy the privilege of participating in the Eucharist. The primary goal of the Church should NEVER be to serve people, for people are sinners and will lead the Church astray. The primary goal should ALWAYS be to serve God in every way He originally wanted it to.

[WorldBibleUnion454]

God bless you Father Paul.

[chasluim34]

Watch my video "Impostor Pope". He was the first pope to use the satanic bent cross. He was a crypto jew and impostor. John Paul II was the "Abomination of Desolation". Ratzinger is also a jew. The Catholic Church has been subverted by the Antichrist (Jews).

[Lucciana27jan2009]

@chasluim34 You are right: Paul VI&J.P.II & Benedict XVI were/are Jews. Paul VI was a Jew because he started a dialogue with Jews despite there is impossible such a dialogue: Jews maintain that Jesus was only a teacher & Christians maintain that Jesus was a son of God. In fact the christianity is a sect created by Jews allegedly as a continuation of THE CULT of THE HOLY SPIRIT from THE OLD TESTAMENT but nowadays THE CULT of SAINTE DEVOTE is THE GENUINE continuation of THE CULT of THE HOLY SPIRIT

[SAYYOURROSARY]

This while he sold out all the priests and bishops in Communist Europe .

This while 2.5 million Catholics are murdered . This man was anti christ .

Look into his history and what he said . He said Jews no longer need to convert .

He said the old covenant is still in effect . This is heresy

Wake up New Order katholicks . Stop attending the New Wave New Oder katholick sect . Once I direst you to the Church you will see .

Most have a real Church/priest near them .

[Shenandoah58]

The death of Aldo Moro was apparently the last nail in his coffin. I don't think he ever receovered from it......the idea that God denied his request to save the man.....Paul VI died..........of a broken heart............

[aburke673]

ANTI CHRIST ANTI POPE PAUL VI IS THE RAVAGER WHO MAKES DESOLATE BRINGING ABOMINATION OF THE DESOLATION. EVIL ANTI CHRIST

[tenorismo]

I stood 3 feet away from him. Beautiful sad violet eyes.

[frensarmiento]

What happened to the primacy of Peter people? If you really are Catholic then you will acnowledge this man as a true pope.

[popazz1]

Like VictorLepanto,I remember very little of this Pope,if anything.I was born in 1960,so was a child,struggling to make sense of catechism,& dodging the slaps of the nuns at school.I broke free of the ctaholic cult at 16,hurrah! What I do recall is thinking,"why can't the man walk,why does he have to be carried on high,on a throne?" I got a slap of my mother for asking THAT question,lol.Oh,it's all just pomp & ceremony,not real at all! Still,my catholic guilt demands I say,R.I.P, Holy Father!

[VictorLepanto]

I remember very little of this pontiff. I remember JP II very clearly, but the times of the 70s, when I was a child, were very confusing. The Church seemed to be withering away. Many people blame this pope for the reality of the Church in those days. I will confess, in the past I've done likewise. He fought the phenomenon. He didn't call for this disaster to befall the Church, he tried to prevent it. Was he saying LeFebver was excommunicated under Paul VI? I remember when he was excommunicated.

[AnotherAppleMacbook]

Pope Paul VI was not a bad man like so many people say. He was very manipulated by people and he suffered a lot. He was a very holy and good man.

[rigoberto565]

our ladys words at fatima came true the popes would have much to suffer, only she will pray to the father for peace for his chosen ones.

[mollenth]

O man, entered into Islam. because only the religion of Islam that approves of Allah.

Koran Al Maedah:3 say;

'....This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

[mollenth]

O Man, Yesus is a moslem.

though Islam, you can still love yesus (prophet isa pbuh). Do you know why?

Please open your bible and compare with Koran.

[martyr732]

@mollenth who said not? Jesus Christ was not a Christian, he submitted himself to his father which means ISLAM.Muslims are more than Christians in beleiving Jesus Christ.He says those who didnt see me are greater than who saw me! this means Muslims are following him indirectly.

[pegassomonterrey]

Gran y Enorme y Santo PAPA...!

Nadie puede objetar...!

Papa Pablo VI, ruega por nosotros desde Cristo...!

Bendito seas en el Señor, Pablo VI....!



[SanctusMatrisTemplum]

I dont like it how modernists, claim and defame the names of John XXIII and Paul VI. Believe me I dont think they that they would be pleased with the way the Church has been going. But at the same time from their good hearts brought forth much discord and confusion. It was the lack of prayers, and sacrifices that made the Church the way it is now.

Let us now right the wrong and drive out from the Temple of God those thieves and robbers who have been permitted to enter!

Pray for Benedict XVI

[lordshenley]

What complete and total nonsense. Paul VI was a brave, good and holy Pope who brought about much needed change. You may not like it and disagree with it but you don't go around calling him evil. What sort of Christianity is that? You have to be loyal through thick and thin

[TheSacredHeart2]

Antipope Paul VI was the most evil man ever to walk on the face of this planet since the world began. It is because of this apostate all the pomp, pageantry and splendor of the Church is gone. He'salso the reason for all these lovey dovey ideas like all religions are good and equal.

[MrAdel007]

Pope Paul was a great pope . He is the servant of God , May God rest his soul in peace and in heaven with our Lord .

[sauke87]

Can somebody tell me what is the song, that is playing 5:19- 9:41?.

[Hkepfer]

I remember him well. We were so blessed to have him.

[chrisman737]

A good man, Pope Paul VI. When he died everyone knew him as the "travelling pope," because he was the first pope to visit all major continents of the world as pope. Of course, the pontificate of Pope John Paul II overshadowed that of Pope Paul VI, but it is important to note that John Paul II said that Pope Paul VI was one of the two men he most greatly admired in his life (the other was Stefan Cardinal Wyszinski - spelling?)

[MrAdel007]

The Holy Father the POPE is the vicar of Christ. Pope Paul VI was right when he wrote Humanae Vitae , but poeple never took the time to read it or even listen to him , I blame the people ,

May God bless Pope Paul the servent of God, he is truly a saint .

[nbmex]

I believe that the Holly Spirit chooses who is more fit to be St. Peter's successor. He chose Montini through the cardinals as his new "rock". Whatever Pope Paul VI decided would be correct because the Holly Spirit Himself guided him in the "aggiornamiento" of the Church..

We all should accept this and support Pope Paul VI... remember, "...whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven"

[hucki2]

Paul VI. was the forgotten pope or "Hamlet". He did so much for the Church, but most of the peole didn't like him. He was trying, correcting those mistakes, which had been created by the Pius popes. I think he and John XXIII. are the greatest popes of the XX. century!

[priest008]

Mistakes???????? MISTAKES???? By who, St.Pius X who said that all priests must take an oath against modernism, which John XXIII removed later on! What mistakes!!! the Church went down hill during the reign of paul VI !, I do not blame Paul Vi for this, but in actual fact I frimly beleive that Paul VI was not the one who decided things but was kept under a close eye by some, it sounds stupid but there is clear evidence which points out that there was a double of Pope Paul VI, an imposter.

[hunfitz]

Why does the wall fall down???

Thank God, the Pope wasn't hurt!

[comali2212]

Remember ALL

The gates of hell will never prevail against MY CHURCH

Jesus Christ The Eternal God

[aburke673]

@comali2212 yes. heretics are the gates of hell, ex Cathedra. HERETICS WILL NEVER PREVAIL. stupid new sect member of anti christ anti pope Paul VI the ravager who makes desolate and brings abomination of the desolation, invalid blasphemy of new mass. you are in communion with a communist and freemason of cursed JUDAH the biblical anti christ.

[iltemplare1983]

The Pope is Pastor and King! But Paulus VI was not an eretic.

[uriahms]

The Bishop of Rome is a pastor not a King. He was right!

[zaraki8000]

4 Marks of True Church. 1. One 2. Holy 3. Apostolic 4. Universal. Other religions have no these. therefore they are false! Because Jesus appoint only Peter to be the head of his Church. See Mt. 16:18-19

[uriahms]

Peter was not the head of the Apostolic church. James was.

[zaraki8000]

Cardinal Siri is the true pope,not pope paul vi. simply becaused there biased happening during d conclave and we can called that invalid. the same with pope john xxiii. And i hate this two popes, pope paul vi and john xxiii simply because they strongly support the vatican ii consel. which a false counsel. it is not actual teaching of our Church. And they were pro ECUMENISM. Catholic Church is not equal to other false religions. outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation. im not joking

[iotaunam1]

John XXIII and Paul VI made the mistake of bringing the Modern world into the Church, instead of the Church into the Modern world. The differences are too large to describe!!

And what are the results of this? Decreased number of Priests, less attending Mass, less conversions, less practicing the faith. Indeed, the Numbers of Priests, Faithfull attending Mass and practicing the faith etc, are only increasing in those circles practicing the same traditional Catholicism, of the Saints & Martyrs!

[AndreasAntoniusMaria]

John XXIII never wanted to reform the Church the way Paul VI did. Read Veturum Sapentia and Sacrosanctum Concillium. The last was published after his death, but the only decission during the VII councel made under John XXIII.

Paul VI was a terrible pope indeed. And Catholisism is unfortunately not only growing under traditionalist but also by the followers of Spanish Kiko "the heretic" of the Camino Neo Catechumenale. Last movement established during Paul VI's pontificate.

[iotaunam1]

John XXIII refused to publish the Third secret of Fatima, despite the "expess wishes of Our Lady" according to Sr Lucia. We all know what the secret predicts (that is those of us who realise that the full secret has not yet been released)!

Also, John XXIII opened the SVC in order to let "some fresh air in". Unfortunately "fresh air" was not the only thing looking in!! He revised the Canon, which had been untouched, and opened the way for modernism. He was a modernist plain and simple!

[Kev95682]

Pope Paul VI was a tragic figure. He was a true liberal in the sense that he believed the Church needed to engage the world. That same liberalism was the source of his reluctance to exercise discipline over the widespread dissent in the Church during his pontificate.

[JamesFrancis1000]

Paul the iv was not a pope, what are you talking about??? A heretic cannot be a catholic let alone a pope. don't ever call that heretic pope again

[AndreasAntoniusMaria]

This Pope could have reach out to the group of Marcel Lefebvre in 1976 with a motu proprio that allowed them to use the old rite. Why not? It took 31 years for this insight. In this 31 years the Lefebvre group became religious fanatics due to isolation. Very huge mistake. The advisors of this Pope thought that the old mass would die out, some groups like the camino nc still think so. Forget it, one of the only places you see younger people in the church are the SSPX Chapels.

[iotaunam1]

"Religious Fanatics" - Now that is laughable!! The SSPX kept all of the Church's doctrines, Mass and sacraments intact. God help us if some Catholics had not kept the tradition alive!

I suppose you would call the Saints "Religious fanatics" also. If so, I would rather be a "fanatical Catholic" than a Modernist!!

[AndreasAntoniusMaria]

I only know the sspx from their Dutch Church in Den Haag. In my experience they are rather fanatical. But I do respect these people. Sometimes I attend a Tridentine mass at the St. Agneschurch in Amsterdam served by the priestly fraternity of St. Peter. So I know the beauty of the old mass and I appreciate it.

[iotaunam1]

I am yet to understand what you mean by the term "fanatical."

As for the Mass, it has completely been changed. Even the very words Our Lord spoke at the Last Supper (the consecration). The reason for attending the original Mass has nothing to do with nostalgia or beauty, it is doctrinal!

[AndreasAntoniusMaria]

I accept the doctrine, I went to many illegal tridentine masses with my late Grandfather Albertus. But English is a foreign language so it is difficult to express myself perfectly. With fanatical I mean beiing without the will to make any consessions to the outer world (the rest of the church). I respect this attitude but I think it is contraproductive.

[iotaunam1]

Concessions can only be given OUTSIDE of doctrine and infallible tradition. Read Mortalium Animos by Pius XI for example, which reiterates Church teaching as it has always beeen. Contrast this with modern ecumenical practices of the Vatican.

Also, the Mass was codified Infalibly by Pope St Pius V, with the warning that if anyone dared to tamper with it, or prohibit it, they would incur the wrath of Almighty God, and Blessed Apostles Peter & Paul. See Quo Primum.

[JamesFrancis1000]

The sspx are schismatic and being mislead.

[iotaunam1]

No one who continues to practice the faith the way it has always been practiced, and handed down from the Apostles, is schismatic.

[ciuffolina1]

grazie per questo documento :)

montanelli è sempre stato un voltagabbana

[tht707]

Bellissimo documentario, grazie per averlo condiviso. È dell'Istituto Luce?

[lovedbyGod12]

The question that the holy popes Roncalo and Montini have highlighted in the midst of their lives was the other way around; What is it that a modern man ( very demanding, but sincere in the same time) can expect from the Church ? If sacraments are timeless, as we all trust they are, than no modernity I would call adjustment to contemporary needs, can break it. Sacraments are not socially conditioned. They are Christ based.

[nalunoteri]

A real prince of the Church...He will never be forgotten...

[SanJuana1985]

A demoliiton man for the church. Vatican II was the atomic bomb in Nagasaki. The church is in ruins. We have to retrieve the treasure of the Latin Mass, that they try to destroy and failed. Deo Gratias!

[jmisinco]

Anyone know the name of the song played over the funeral for Aldo Moro (beginning at 5:35)?

[gusidolo]

Your holyness Paul VI ...... Forgotten?? I don't think so, because a lot of people remember the man who sayd " the church must be opened  for our poor brothers, beacuse poor people is the face of jesuscrist"..... the name of the man who sayd those word was..... Giovanni Baptista Montini... PAUL VI.

[av3rRageGameName]

I don't like the fact that at the end it says "pope paul VI the forgotten pope" and at the part well he sadly talks about aldo moro i could just feel how awful this pope was mistreated! Blessed is pope paul VI for he was persecuted, and mocked and died a martyrs death!

[darsham]

...maybe you have some problem...

[FingO1981]

Ehrwürdiger Papst Paul VI., bitte für uns und die Kirche Gottes.

[BenedictusXXVI]

Can somebody say to me like the song is called which is played with the requiem (memorial service)? It is very important

[nalunoteri]

Paul VI was a great man, of exquisite sensitivity and culture, and his Church was plural...God bless him

[darsham]

Don't say stupidities, PVI was a sign of grace and a great man.

What you (and the other nostalgics) have to understand is that the REAL TRADITION of the Church is the MESSAGE OF CHRIST, (read the catechism), and not the language, the repetition of the same rite etc., that are only contingent.

[rooizilver]

@darsham he was an impostor, and not the valid Catholic Pope. The only valid Catholic Pope was Cardinal Siri, Gregory XVII, who was kept a prisoner at the Vatican for 31 years until his death on 2 may 1989.

[Hkepfer]

@darsham Hear, hear! Tradition, Orthodoxy, the Bible & the (holy) faith itself is all message.

[MarryPoppensIS100]

Paul VI stunk. Thank God we have Benedict XVI now.  It will take 300 years to put back half of what he destroyed in a few years.

[neilalvin2k4]

Thank you Papa Paulus VI... Can anyone tell me the name of the last track played?

[Hiberniensis]

It's the Prelude from Bach's Cello Suite No. 1

[beatnavy2005]

Rest in the peace of Christ Most Holy Father, that peace you were denied during the last years of your reign.

Most Holy Father please pray for us!!

[gloved333]

documentario bellissimo peccato non si trovi da nessuna parte,,,,,

[VolpeDellaMalesia]

gloved, io su emule l'ho trovato, così come ho trovato tutti i documentari de "i papi del 900".

[AndreasAntoniusMaria]

Honest, decent, Holy man. He suffered a lot during his pontificate. Because he was the wrong man for the difficult job of implementing the decissions of Vaticanum II. This because he was a natural doubter with little autority over the church. This gave him the reputation of a weak pope. He made a lot of wrong decissions. The worst is the outlawing of the old mass. Fortunately he was a too weak pope to be succesfull to achieve this goal. But his intentions were pure, therefore he is in Heavennow.

[zzuzzurello]

6 agosto 2008. l'italia è distratta, in vacanza. irriconoscente ed ignorante. Paolo VI è stato un Papa che molti continuano a rimpiangere.

[tefisher1984]

Happy belated 111th birthday Paul VI!

[monktogod]

We r God's child.I belief that the latin Mass is the truly Mass but not because the costum (because the sacred music and the prayers).I respect if some of my brothers in Chrits have other points of views about it.Love,Compassion,Humility r the keys word.Pray the Rosary everyday as Our Lady said.Remember God love,we do too.Pax.

[eguzkibegi]

Santo subbito!

[MARTINKUK1]

This day, August the 6th, 2008 marks the 30th anniversary of his death. Let us pray that Servant of God, Paulus VI be beatified

[zzuzzurello]

osservatene l'espressione dolorosa e sofferta in 05.44 e segg. Paolo VI ha veramente sofferto per l'assassinio di aldo moro.e si può affermare che anche lui fu vittima delle brigate rosse. brigate rosse vi odio.

[zzuzzurello]

Grande Papa grande uomo.

[capsule35]

The Pope does not stagger or fall at 03.15 as the commentary suggests. If you look closely it is clear that he is simply being assisted to take a backward step down from the threshold of the Holy Door. You can see the assistant on the left stepping down a second later.

[gloved333]

è un video straordinario, una delle cose belle che fa la rai e che ovviamente non si trovano in giro.....anche io cerco la musica che parte dal 5.20 è stupenda...

[posey25583]

Michael Nyman - If

[ILSignorAntonio]

Si vedeva ke era ormai stanco, debilitato e malato, infatti morirà appena meno di 3 mesi dopo....

[MARTINKUK1]

Passed away from the world in silence as if for vacation... Strange indeed

[VolpeDellaMalesia]

qualcuno potrebbe cortesemente dirmi il titolo dellla canzone che parte a 5:20 ?

[iubanne]

la cerco anch'io!

[VolpeDellaMalesia]

Un grande Papa, uno dei pontificati più difficili di tutti i tempi

[dikayosine]

el Papa mas importante del siglo XX, gracias por el reportaje

[Fangorn90]

Se mi posso intromettere nel discorso... La Messa in Latino è una forma liturgica sempre utilizzata dalla Chiesa e mai abolita... E poi guardiamo il punto di vista... Il sacerdote non da' le spalle alla folla, ma è girato verso il Santissimo... E facilmente spiegabile quindi il perchè della messa secondo il rito di Pio V... Cmq volevo ringraziare Darsham per l'opera che fa su YouTube di riportare la verità storica sui Sommi Pontefici Romani...

[altosuzuki]

Lefevre in realtà da vescovo aveva partecipato al concilio vaticano II e in quella veste aveva firmato tutti i documenti approvati... ebbe ragione finchè contestò coloro che interpretando a proprio uso e consumo il concilio trescavano per sovvertire la dottrina, ma sbagliò ad accusare il papa di eresia

[livre333]

No é vero.

[altosuzuki]

smentiscimi se puoi... come mai la questione di Lefevre scoppia solo negli anni '70 allora? Il concilio termina nel '65...

[livre333]

convinha saber se afinal se esses Papas não cometeram heresias formas. Sabe responder ou fica-se pelos chavões?

[piolo764]

Un grande papa che ha dato attuazione al concilio vaticano II, ora disatteso dall'attuale papa in modo neanche troppo velato!!!

[altosuzuki]

ma non dire cavolate e piuttosto vatti a leggere (perchè sicuramente non l'hai mai fatto) i documenti del concilio. Che non hanno mai abolito, tanto per dirne una, la messa in latino.

[piolo764]

ma perchè non taci e vai a studiare un pò che ti fa bene. Quello che scriverai d'ora in poi per me è solo spam.

[altosuzuki]

tipica fuga di chi non ha argomenti.

[altosuzuki]

lo sai o no che Paolo VI ha ribadito nell' "Humanae vitae" la proibizione della contraccezione? Tipico di un papa progressista che voleva cambiare la dottrina, vero?

[darsham]

Dunque, la Chiesa favorisce la contraccezione naturale che si basa sulla conoscenza profonda del corpo del proprio partner ma ciò non è possibile in rapporti occasionali (che un vero cattolico non dovrebbe avere).

[altosuzuki]

e quindi? Nessuna concessione a quella artificiale come vorrebbero i modernisti

[darsham]

Per quanto concerne l'affermazione di piolo sull'operato dell'attuale Pontefice e del Concilio è inesatto in quanto egli è stato uno dei maggiori consulenti del Concilio e di esso conserva i principi, mentre per la messa in latino la sua è stata solo una concessione a chi volesse celebrarla senza chiedere l'autorizzazione e non significa ritorno all'antico e né imposizione di quell'austera tradizione a chi non voglia.

[altosuzuki]

i principi del Papa sono quelli di 2000 anni, prima del Vaticano II ci sono stati altri 20 concili che non possono essere ignorati come se la Chiesa fosse nata nel 1965. La messa in latino è sempre stata valida checcè ne dicano i modernisti e per quanto mi riguarda è la forma più solenne della liturgia

[darsham]

Potrei anche condividere il tuo pensiero ma non posso non essere consapevole che i tempi cambiano e la Chiesa non dovrebbe rimanere chiusa, trincerata dietro orpelli liturgici che allontanano il fedele. Cioè non dovrebbe perdersi nella modernità ma far rivivere in essa la tradizione senza però che questa sostituisca i suoi fondamenti spirituali. Però...

[altosuzuki]

sono d'accordo con te, per me l'aggiornamento delle forme va bene ma è innegabile che nella nuova messa si siano commessi molti abusi. Il rito latino mi piace di più perchè è tutto un invito alla sacralità, ti fa percepire la profondità del Santo Sacrificio

[darsham]

...temo che in futuro la Chiesa sarà destinata a ritornare alle sue origini, alla "Chiesa delle catacombe", come in un'inesorabile parabola, verrà oppressa e perseguitata dallo pseudoateismo e dall'insensibilità dell'uomo moderno, e forse solo in quel momento si avrà piena consapevolezza dei suoi veri fondamenti e ci sarà un nuovo inizio...

[altosuzuki]

mi viene da pensarla come te. Viviamo un' epoca difficilissima per la fede, ma se siamo cristiani sappiamo che il Signore ci ha promesso che la barca di Pietro pur scossa dalla tempesta non affonderà mai. Ringraziamo di avere un Papa come Benedetto XVI!

[shaunnyboi89]

what's the song being sung when the Pope is carried into St. John Lateran where he talks about Aldo Moro?

[zakko86]

PAolo VI un grande Papa,ha guidato il suo pontificato negli anni difficili della storia d'Italia e del mondo,dalla contestazione studentesca all'assasinio di Aldo Moro

[agni2007]

Lefevre is and remains OUT of the Catholic church untill they recognize Vatican 2 and obey to the Pope!

[altosuzuki]

same thign for followers of the theology of liberation filo-communist

[agni2003]

i agree that the theology of liberation is wrong in the same way lefevre is...the difference is that the latter openly opposes and disregards the Church and caused a main rift which cases great scandal, the former is just wrong... as I say fedeli al Papa fedeli a Dio :)

[Lanerossi]

Paulus VI a great Pope!

[nervousordo]

Let us not follow the way of Lefebvre who left the Catholic faith in word and in deed.

[darsham]

well the new Pontiff is trying to solve the problems with Lefebvre, for example the permission to celebrate with the old messal, etc.

[VolpeDellaMalesia]

i lefebvriani non vogliono solo la messa in latino: la messa in vetus ordo è solo la punta dell'isberg. ciò che vogliono davvero i lefebvriani è che il papa rinneghi il coniclio vaticano II

[livre333]

O Concilio Vaticano II é contra a doutrina da Igreja... se não anularem esse concílio terão de anular muitos outros porque são incompatíveis. Por outro lado o Concílio V II é falível e apenas pastoral, do Magistério episcopal somente.

[altosuzuki]

cosa che un papa legittimo (e i lefevriani lo considerano tale) non può fare a meno che non neghi l' infallibilità di Paolo VI che ne ratificò i documenti... quindi è una richiesta contraddittoria. I sedevacantisti, per quanto non condivida neppure la loro posizione, sono se non altro più coerenti