At minute 2:02 , you say "God obviously predetermines some things", but by what authority do you say those are the things He has predetermined? Is there a list? Or is it more subjective to a person's own understanding of which events were predetermined? Some say that a certain event was pointless evil; others say it was predetermined. Your decision to say certain events are or are not predetermined puts YOU as authority over scripture. The open theist does not hold to the authority of scripture
@eggrollmama The Bible says that predestines some things, but it doesn't say that God predestines all things. The Calvinist adds to the Bible and twists the Bible. The Open Theist recognizes what the Bible teaches, that the future is partly open and partly settled. The fact that God does not predestine or cause all things is shown in Isaiah's description of God and His vineyard.
God is willing to allow some prophecies to become void: Jeremiah 18:7-10, Jonah 3:10. That is because some prophecies are conditional prophecies. Not all prophecies are absolute. Some prophecies include an "if" element.
Open Theism teaches that God is omniscient. The future is partly open and undetermined and God, being omniscient, must of necessity know that the future is partly open and partly undetermined. God knows reality as it is. God knows the future is partly open.
Here's a question: why is prophesy usually so vague? Could it be because God often only settles vague details and allows free will to settle the rest?
@PeripheralMan Sir, what about that prophecies in the Bible that did not come to past? Can you list them and explain individually why those prophecies failed?
You are incorrect. Open Theism is about God. Is God free to do as he wills? Is God free to create a world with free will beings whose future he does not know. Calvinists think God is trapped in a box, an impotent God unable to change, create, or love. Open Theism is the belief that God can sing a song never before sung, can write a poem never before written, can innovate something completely new and unique. Calvinists see God as a stone idol.
I'm sorry if some "Calvinists" you know are merely professors and not possessors. They are deceived. A true Christian can not continually live in sin. The Holy Spirit convicts us and God disciplines us when we sin. I feel horrible when I sin. Sinning is not worth the misery that follows. But I do have an advocate with my Father when I do sin. I am his child, and He loves me. I love Him. I thank God for His grace, saving a sinner like me. He is merciful and so good. I don't deserve it.
Luk 10:21 At that very time He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, "I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight.
By the way, the "infants" are the 70 disciples. No wiggle room there for you to twist more Scripture.
I gave you some very sovereign verses to chew on. Feel free to comment. Sheep love sheep food, so these verses shouldn't bother you. I have more if you want it. Plenty more.
You spend more time explaining away scripture than you do proclaiming it. Wait, maybe because there is no scripture to support your side of the argument. Not in context at least. You have made a god of your imagination. I beg you to repent. You are teaching a lie.
Revelation 17:8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.
Notice that only certain names were written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. Names are not added when you repent either. God's providence prevails. Grace!
Jude 1:4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 2:8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also APPOINTED.
(13) But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
(4) just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love (5) He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, (6) to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
Romans 11:5-8 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. (6) But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. (7) What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; (8) just as it is written, "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."
Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? (22) What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? (23) And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
(15) For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." (16) So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." (18) So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
John 15:16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
Mark 4:11-12 And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, (12) so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."
If God makes sense to you, in your little human mind, I fear for you. My God is AMAZING! Holy Holy Holy!
Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. (9) For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
Now how God carries out his plan is something we dont absolutely know for sure but all we know is that He is righteous and holy in all his ways. Psalm 145:17. PRAISE THE LORD FOR HE IS ALL RIGHTEOUS...
All human beings need to repent and become Born Again! The first birth is a natural birth (mother's womb). The Second Birth is a Spiritual Birth! We are Born from above or Born of GOD! We are born with a sinful nature. The HOLY SPIRIT of GOD is what makes us righteous! May GOD please you. Peace.
Men are not born in God's image. Men are born in Adam's image.
After the fall, Adam's eyes were opened. From that point on, his sinful nature is passed down to us. All of Adam's offspring are in Adam's own likeness, according to Adam's image. Men today are not born in God's image. See the verse below.
Genesis 5:3 When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.
Gen 5:3 When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.
I see you moving away from calvinism! and that is good!
1; you admit God creates people
2; God does not create sinful people
but we do not inherit sin nature from adam people start sinning and become the children with the nature of wrath! sin is a action not mystical notion.
not quickly after being born it takes time for the conscience to develop the Jews said at the age of about 12 for girls and 13 for boys...
Oh, so according to you, a 7 year old child should feel no shame in going to school naked. Adam walked around naked and felt no shame BEFORE the fall.
LOL. You are sinking in your own logic. How silly.
every man who has a son will see likeness in the offspring! that does not mean ALL men are made in Adams image! calvinists look for excuses to keep sinning!
1Co 11:7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
Paul speaks of man here as in his first creation, in his state of innocence before his fall; but now he has sinned and defaced this image, and comes short of God's glory;
It's convenient that you left out how a person is born from above.
Joh 3:8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
God chooses where the wind blows and He chooses WHO is born of the Spirit.
You can not GET yourself born again. It is a supernatural act of grace, and it is irresistible.
Just because Jesus commanded men to repent does not mean that they can.
God has a history of commanding people to do things He knows that they CAN'T DO.
For example, God gave Israel the Law and commanded them to keep it. But God knew they couldn't keep it before He gave it to them. According to Paul, God gave the Law so every mouth would be stopped and every man guilty before Him.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
This is just sad. Is this heresay why you have beenbanned from ligitimate evangelical web forums? Dude...looks like you have a bad case of sour grapes.
I didn't know that goats liked them so much! LOL!
You condemn yourself with every word out of your mouth. It says in the Bible that you will be held accountable for them, and woe to you who teach a different gospel than what Jesus taught (and Paul, Peter, John.....). I believe you are called cursed for that.
As far as the future of establishing the kingdom of God and judgement, it is fully determined and God will not change his mind about that. On those issues we can say the future is determined for sure.
I like your name. By the way, how does God know that 144000 Jews will be saved?
According to you, they can reject Him with their free will, totally thwarting God's plan.
Now, let me help you. It's called election. Everyone who God declared to be saved will be saved. He has written certain names in the Lamb's book of life, BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. Hmm, it almost sounds as if God knew Adam was going to fall. I hope God grants you repentance. He is sovereign.
The establishment of the kingdom of God is an absolute prophecy which God decrees will happen no matter what the current situation may be. God does not change his mind about that.
God caused King David to count the people so He could unleash His punishment on Israel. There are two versions of this story. In one God's anger incited David, in the other, Satan incited David. This shows that God uses means to accomplish his will- Total Control.
2 Samuel 24:1 Now again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."
1 Chronicles 21:1 Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.
God is still able to carry out his divine plan without taking away the free will of man and He being all wise can salvage great things from situations or acts that go against his very nature for which men will be accountable for. You can never say that God wanted a person to sin so that he could fulfill his plan. It's plausible to say he is patient towards sinful acts or predicaments but can salvage something out of that for.
Men do not have a totally free will. If you did, then you could make yourself grow a foot taller, fly around the moon 3 times, and when you come back, make yourself king of England. If you can't do this, then your will is very limited.
In the same way, the Father must draw (drag) you to Himself or you will never come to Him. The greek word for draw is "helco". (G1670) It means to drag. In His mercy, He drags sinners to Himself and saves them, to the glory of His grace.
helco (G1670) is interpreted draw, drag, ang haul in the NT. And yes, God must "helco" you. He does this by changing your will.
Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
And you are right, "free will" can not make people fly. "Free will" can not choose God either. God chooses his people, saves them, sanctifies them, and glorifies them.
Salvation by works theology is dangerous. Holiness is the RESULT of a true, ordained conversion, by God disciplining His children.
First one is a Figure of speech. As in "I can't give you my watch." Not that I literally "can't," but in "I don't want to."
If you can't choose God, why does he tell you to "choose ye this day whom ye will serve...but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. (Joshua 24:15) There are others, look them up. We "choose" to repent and forsake our sin and he graciously forgives us. Let's get off of first base here and go on with greater understanding.
God is not unjust in judging His enemies. All men deserve hell. God chooses to be merciful to some of us.
Psalms 65:4 How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You To dwell in Your courts. We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house, Your holy temple.
John 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Romans 9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
No, I think I do get it. You can not love God the way He describes Himself in the Bible. You think your self righteousness will save you. (So did the Pharisees) You believe that man is not that bad and that they DESERVE to be saved. You do not view God as infinitely Holy, because if you did, even at your best, you would see yourself as a wretch. I hope God grants you repentance.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
this verse proves open theism, " the future is open!"
people who claim to be christian and are sinning but claim they have no sin are decieved! and then God will judge them!
God watches the actions of people then judges them...
calvinism claims all history is fixed and nothing changes and God just watches history unfold like watching a movie.. this is unscriptural and nonsense!
I'm sorry, but this does not prove that the future is open. It proves that people can only be deceived by their "free will" unless God graciously saves them, and changes their will.
Then God will discipline his adopted children when they sin. (Heb 12). The discipline over time will produce holiness. He disciplines every son WHOM HE RECIEVES.
I'm sorry, 1 John 1:8 does not prove the future is open. But it does prove that your "free will" can deceive you. Deceived people do not know they are deceived. God must choose to have mercy on the undeserving sinner and show him how sinful he really is. Then the sinner will repent.
when a person repents they stop sinning or they are still decieved! ( this proves calvinism wrong!) calvinism claims all people always keep sinning :westminster catechism"
calvinism in contrast to open theism claims the future is fixed and does not change! open theism is truth and teaches the future is open and a person who repents stops sinning and is no longer decieved!. heb 12
You're taking 1 John 1:8 out of context. That was written to Gnostics.They claimed that they could sin in the flesh and still be right with God. In other words, they claimed to "have no sin" and yet deceived themselves because they continued to practice sin. If John were actually saying that we could do nothing "but' sin, then he wouldn't turn around and say this: "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not..."
both these scripture prove freewill in correct exegesis diametrically opposed to calvinism
Hebrews 10:22 (KJV) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:38-39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Rev. 2:23 (KJV) And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
this proves Calvinism wrong and proves Open theism correct if all history is fixed before it began then "a most vast amount" of the bible would be senseless God lets man make his own destiny and judges the freewill actions of men
I'm not saying that we can't make choices. For example, I can choose between chocolate and vanilla ice cream. Of course we make choices. But an unregenerate person's will can't choose God. Men must be drawn. (See my other posts.)
Absolutely! Now you're sounding like a Calvinist. LOL!
The call is to go out to all people, but only the chosen will genuinely respond and produce fruit. (parable of the 4 soils) When the elect hear the gospel, faith from above follows. This is not a mere intellectual type of faith. It is faith that is granted by God. I'm sorry that you hate scripture. You think Jesus did 60%, You do 40%. Jesus did not save you. You saved yourself. Now you can boast.
@DefendingTheTruth Everyone is really supposed to be afraid of the straw man versions of blasphemy against God that you erect so that you can burn them down. It is for this reason that I am a non-religious theist rather than a "Christian" if being a christian means being like this. Now you can feel free to condemn me of whatever you wish! I saved myself, man, just like neo in the matrix. I saved myself, and then I ascneded my throne above the stars of God!
But man can't do any of these things unless God grants it. Yet, we are still suppose to preach it to all men.
2 Corinthians 2:15-16 For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; (16) to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life. And who is adequate for these things?
Please show me in the Bible that God never wanted people to sin.
We are not to say that God tempts us. God does not temp us, but He uses means, like Satan, and lying spirits. (See my other posts)
For instance, God wanted Israel to know that he was their God, so he hardened Pharaoh's heart. God wanted Pharaoh to reject what Moses was saying, so that He would be glorified in punishing Pharaoh and showing His power to Israel through the plagues and red sea crossing.
1 Kings 22:20-22 "The LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that. (21) "Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.' (22) "The LORD said to him, 'How?' And he said, 'I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.'
Proverbs 20:24 Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?
A man can't understand his own way because God has ordained his steps.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
I believe God predestined our works, and even our prayers (all our ways). This is why when we pray, it SEEMS that God is moved to react, when in reality, he is in sovereign control.
So it was possible for Jesus to sin, what if he did sin?
Maybe God sent His son Jesus because He already knew the future.. that Jesus would fulfill his mission.
Plz answer this Jesse
jin00009 6 months ago
At minute 2:02 , you say "God obviously predetermines some things", but by what authority do you say those are the things He has predetermined? Is there a list? Or is it more subjective to a person's own understanding of which events were predetermined? Some say that a certain event was pointless evil; others say it was predetermined. Your decision to say certain events are or are not predetermined puts YOU as authority over scripture. The open theist does not hold to the authority of scripture
eggrollmama 1 year ago
@eggrollmama The Bible says that predestines some things, but it doesn't say that God predestines all things. The Calvinist adds to the Bible and twists the Bible. The Open Theist recognizes what the Bible teaches, that the future is partly open and partly settled. The fact that God does not predestine or cause all things is shown in Isaiah's description of God and His vineyard.
bibletheology 1 year ago
Yep, open theism is a mark of false conversion!
N2truth7 2 years ago
...not sure what is backing your statement here...
ataru14 2 years ago
Uhhh let's see...blaspheming God's character???
N2truth7 2 years ago
Open theism by necessity will allow prophecy to become moot.
It is a modern twist on an old heresy challenging if God is Omniscient and whether the Bible is complete and infallible.
Such challenges are from Satan.
PeripheralMan 2 years ago
God is willing to allow some prophecies to become void: Jeremiah 18:7-10, Jonah 3:10. That is because some prophecies are conditional prophecies. Not all prophecies are absolute. Some prophecies include an "if" element.
bibletheology 2 years ago
Open Theism teaches that God is omniscient. The future is partly open and undetermined and God, being omniscient, must of necessity know that the future is partly open and partly undetermined. God knows reality as it is. God knows the future is partly open.
bibletheology 2 years ago
Here's a question: why is prophesy usually so vague? Could it be because God often only settles vague details and allows free will to settle the rest?
ataru14 2 years ago
I guess it could if the bible taught "free will".
N2truth7 2 years ago
@PeripheralMan Sir, what about that prophecies in the Bible that did not come to past? Can you list them and explain individually why those prophecies failed?
psychoelf000 1 year ago
Sir,
You are incorrect. Open Theism is about God. Is God free to do as he wills? Is God free to create a world with free will beings whose future he does not know. Calvinists think God is trapped in a box, an impotent God unable to change, create, or love. Open Theism is the belief that God can sing a song never before sung, can write a poem never before written, can innovate something completely new and unique. Calvinists see God as a stone idol.
psychoelf000 2 years ago
God is all knowing... Believer of Christ is the only way to Heaven
JYDrummer12 2 years ago
It iEES All So VEEEerry Tricckkkkeey!! LOL!! SATAN is ANGEL OF LIGHT=JESUS IS LIGHT OF THE WORLD!!
warwithangels 2 years ago
That makes alotta sense what you said Jesse.
FireThunderTV 3 years ago
Argh...I'm hungry! I hate when I get hungry late at night just before I'm going to bed.
FireThunderTV 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
there is nothing sad about not believing luck and rather choosing to believe Jesus.
I don't see any further gain is trying to help you! so all I can do is Hope you find help else where..
I am done responding,, remember this
no one will enter Gods kingdom sinning!
so if you are sinning ,, stop it!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
I'm sorry if some "Calvinists" you know are merely professors and not possessors. They are deceived. A true Christian can not continually live in sin. The Holy Spirit convicts us and God disciplines us when we sin. I feel horrible when I sin. Sinning is not worth the misery that follows. But I do have an advocate with my Father when I do sin. I am his child, and He loves me. I love Him. I thank God for His grace, saving a sinner like me. He is merciful and so good. I don't deserve it.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
One more. I saw this one and couldn't resist.
Luk 10:21 At that very time He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, "I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight.
By the way, the "infants" are the 70 disciples. No wiggle room there for you to twist more Scripture.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Open air preacher,
I gave you some very sovereign verses to chew on. Feel free to comment. Sheep love sheep food, so these verses shouldn't bother you. I have more if you want it. Plenty more.
You spend more time explaining away scripture than you do proclaiming it. Wait, maybe because there is no scripture to support your side of the argument. Not in context at least. You have made a god of your imagination. I beg you to repent. You are teaching a lie.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Revelation 17:8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.
Notice that only certain names were written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. Names are not added when you repent either. God's providence prevails. Grace!
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Jude 1:4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
1 Peter 2:8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also APPOINTED.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
2 Thes 2:13
(13) But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Eph 1:4-6
(4) just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love (5) He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, (6) to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Romans 11:5-8 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. (6) But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. (7) What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; (8) just as it is written, "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Romans 9:21-23
Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? (22) What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? (23) And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Roman 9:15-18
(15) For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." (16) So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." (18) So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
John 15:16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
Notice that Jesus said that all that come to him is limited to "all that the Father gives" him.
Also notice that this is not a "type" of person as you claim. It is individual election. Person by person.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Mark 4:11-12 And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, (12) so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Thank you Jesse. Go git 'em openair!
mgtheology 3 years ago
its amazing how twisted peoples thinking can be!
I am so glad for the MGT teaching that ;
God makes sense!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
If God makes sense to you, in your little human mind, I fear for you. My God is AMAZING! Holy Holy Holy!
Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. (9) For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Now how God carries out his plan is something we dont absolutely know for sure but all we know is that He is righteous and holy in all his ways. Psalm 145:17. PRAISE THE LORD FOR HE IS ALL RIGHTEOUS...
AaronM144000 3 years ago
All human beings need to repent and become Born Again! The first birth is a natural birth (mother's womb). The Second Birth is a Spiritual Birth! We are Born from above or Born of GOD! We are born with a sinful nature. The HOLY SPIRIT of GOD is what makes us righteous! May GOD please you. Peace.
GENESIS 8:21
GALATIONS 5:16-18
ROMANS 8:5-9
JOHN 3:3
The first birth is a natural birth. Second Birth is a Spiritual Birth. ( Born Again)
werrrt0 3 years ago
people are born in Gods image ,,innocent
sin is a action of rebellion that is judged
not a mystical notion..
when a person is born again they return to
the image of God they are born in!
and represent Gods image!
Professing christians are "blinded by their refusal to stop rebelling against God"
and believed they are saved and sinning is unavoidable!
openairpreacher 3 years ago 2
Men are not born in God's image. Men are born in Adam's image.
After the fall, Adam's eyes were opened. From that point on, his sinful nature is passed down to us. All of Adam's offspring are in Adam's own likeness, according to Adam's image. Men today are not born in God's image. See the verse below.
Genesis 5:3 When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
calvinism blinds people , blind as bats!
quote
Men are not born in God's image. Men are born in Adam's image.
end quote;
Gen1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
SHOW ME ONE SCRIPTURE that says men are born in adams image!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
Men are born in Adam's image.
Gen 5:3 When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
adam is the father of A son... His son not ALL men!
God is our father! wake up!
Matthew 5:48 (KJV) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
ADAM is not my father!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
God is my creator NOT Adam!
Throughout the Bible God affirms that he is our Creator. It is impossible for God to create a sinful being!
"Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?" Job 31:15
"Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?" Malachi 2:10
people go astray and start sinning!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
Of course God does not create us sinful. But our sinful nature inherited from Adam soon causes us to sin for sure, and quickly after we are born.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
I see you moving away from calvinism! and that is good!
1; you admit God creates people
2; God does not create sinful people
but we do not inherit sin nature from adam people start sinning and become the children with the nature of wrath! sin is a action not mystical notion.
not quickly after being born it takes time for the conscience to develop the Jews said at the age of about 12 for girls and 13 for boys...
openairpreacher 3 years ago
Oh, so according to you, a 7 year old child should feel no shame in going to school naked. Adam walked around naked and felt no shame BEFORE the fall.
LOL. You are sinking in your own logic. How silly.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Matthew 5:48 (KJV) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
If being perfect is the condition of salvation. Good luck Open air preacher. Good luck! Wow, you are so ignorant of scripture.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
keep your Irish devils I don't believe in luck!
I believe in Jesus! and suggest you do too.
openairpreacher 3 years ago
"keep your Irish devils I don't believe in luck!"
It's pretty sad when you have to resort to this kind of reply. No, it's VERY sad.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
every man who has a son will see likeness in the offspring! that does not mean ALL men are made in Adams image! calvinists look for excuses to keep sinning!
God hath made man upright." Ecclesiastes 7:29
"Manis the image and glory of God." I Corinthians 11:7
"Men, which are made after the similitude of God." James 3:9
openairpreacher 3 years ago
1Co 11:7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
Paul speaks of man here as in his first creation, in his state of innocence before his fall; but now he has sinned and defaced this image, and comes short of God's glory;
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Did you choose to be born?
It's convenient that you left out how a person is born from above.
Joh 3:8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
God chooses where the wind blows and He chooses WHO is born of the Spirit.
You can not GET yourself born again. It is a supernatural act of grace, and it is irresistible.
Could you have resisted being born naturally?
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
because a person has no control over being naturally born from our parents
that has no bearing on the fact we can choose to love God and stop sinning
open theism is a fact! God wants people to repent! luke 13;5
so IF they do they don't perish
the future is open
Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
openairpreacher 3 years ago
Just because Jesus commanded men to repent does not mean that they can.
God has a history of commanding people to do things He knows that they CAN'T DO.
For example, God gave Israel the Law and commanded them to keep it. But God knew they couldn't keep it before He gave it to them. According to Paul, God gave the Law so every mouth would be stopped and every man guilty before Him.
Romans 3:19-20
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is just sad. Is this heresay why you have beenbanned from ligitimate evangelical web forums? Dude...looks like you have a bad case of sour grapes.
I didn't know that goats liked them so much! LOL!
You condemn yourself with every word out of your mouth. It says in the Bible that you will be held accountable for them, and woe to you who teach a different gospel than what Jesus taught (and Paul, Peter, John.....). I believe you are called cursed for that.
AbbasGirlMe 3 years ago
As far as the future of establishing the kingdom of God and judgement, it is fully determined and God will not change his mind about that. On those issues we can say the future is determined for sure.
AaronM144000 3 years ago 2
I like your name. By the way, how does God know that 144000 Jews will be saved?
According to you, they can reject Him with their free will, totally thwarting God's plan.
Now, let me help you. It's called election. Everyone who God declared to be saved will be saved. He has written certain names in the Lamb's book of life, BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. Hmm, it almost sounds as if God knew Adam was going to fall. I hope God grants you repentance. He is sovereign.
Rev 17:8
2Tim 2:25
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Go over my playlist about Open Theism featuring Jesse. He covers the four different types of prophecy. It should make more sense.
AaronM144000 3 years ago
The establishment of the kingdom of God is an absolute prophecy which God decrees will happen no matter what the current situation may be. God does not change his mind about that.
AaronM144000 3 years ago
God caused King David to count the people so He could unleash His punishment on Israel. There are two versions of this story. In one God's anger incited David, in the other, Satan incited David. This shows that God uses means to accomplish his will- Total Control.
2 Samuel 24:1 Now again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."
1 Chronicles 21:1 Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
God is still able to carry out his divine plan without taking away the free will of man and He being all wise can salvage great things from situations or acts that go against his very nature for which men will be accountable for. You can never say that God wanted a person to sin so that he could fulfill his plan. It's plausible to say he is patient towards sinful acts or predicaments but can salvage something out of that for.
AaronM144000 3 years ago
Men do not have a totally free will. If you did, then you could make yourself grow a foot taller, fly around the moon 3 times, and when you come back, make yourself king of England. If you can't do this, then your will is very limited.
In the same way, the Father must draw (drag) you to Himself or you will never come to Him. The greek word for draw is "helco". (G1670) It means to drag. In His mercy, He drags sinners to Himself and saves them, to the glory of His grace.
John 6
Eph 1
Rom 9
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
freewill does not make a person fly! or grow! freewill is a choice of the will
other wise the will is free to choose how a person will live!
Adam with freewill chose to eat the fruit
people who pray for healing do so with freewill..
God does not drag sinners! God is NOT a slave!
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
the Idea God drags sinning people around is a abomination! "calvinism!"
openairpreacher 3 years ago
helco (G1670) is interpreted draw, drag, ang haul in the NT. And yes, God must "helco" you. He does this by changing your will.
Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
And you are right, "free will" can not make people fly. "Free will" can not choose God either. God chooses his people, saves them, sanctifies them, and glorifies them.
Salvation by works theology is dangerous. Holiness is the RESULT of a true, ordained conversion, by God disciplining His children.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
First one is a Figure of speech. As in "I can't give you my watch." Not that I literally "can't," but in "I don't want to."
If you can't choose God, why does he tell you to "choose ye this day whom ye will serve...but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. (Joshua 24:15) There are others, look them up. We "choose" to repent and forsake our sin and he graciously forgives us. Let's get off of first base here and go on with greater understanding.
mgtheology 3 years ago
We are to preach that people believe the gospel. But they can't unless God grants it.
Philippians 1:29 For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
We are to preach that people repent. But they can't unless God grants it.
2 Timothy 2:25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
People can't choose God unless He grants it either.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
calvinism is dangerous in supposing God
leaves countless numbers of people totally deprived who cannot choose good from evil or stop sinning ,, then God judges them and send them to hell!
calvinism because it rejects freewill makes God unjust and the creator of sinners whom he turns and destroys.
if a person changes His will and people can do it! then iresistable grace is nonsense!
sinners are judged because they choose to sin,,, freewill, calvinism is false!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
God is not unjust in judging His enemies. All men deserve hell. God chooses to be merciful to some of us.
Psalms 65:4 How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You To dwell in Your courts. We will be satisfied with the goodness of Your house, Your holy temple.
John 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Romans 9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
you dont get it! calvinism claims
God creates sinners who cannot stop sinning.. there is NO justice in a God judging people who have NO choice to stop sinning...calvinism is nonsense!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
No, I think I do get it. You can not love God the way He describes Himself in the Bible. You think your self righteousness will save you. (So did the Pharisees) You believe that man is not that bad and that they DESERVE to be saved. You do not view God as infinitely Holy, because if you did, even at your best, you would see yourself as a wretch. I hope God grants you repentance.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
blood is the remission of sin!
only Jesus' sacrifice saves people..
and those who Love God choose to walk holy
openairpreacher 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
this verse proves open theism, " the future is open!"
people who claim to be christian and are sinning but claim they have no sin are decieved! and then God will judge them!
God watches the actions of people then judges them...
calvinism claims all history is fixed and nothing changes and God just watches history unfold like watching a movie.. this is unscriptural and nonsense!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
I'm sorry, but this does not prove that the future is open. It proves that people can only be deceived by their "free will" unless God graciously saves them, and changes their will.
Then God will discipline his adopted children when they sin. (Heb 12). The discipline over time will produce holiness. He disciplines every son WHOM HE RECIEVES.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
I'm sorry, 1 John 1:8 does not prove the future is open. But it does prove that your "free will" can deceive you. Deceived people do not know they are deceived. God must choose to have mercy on the undeserving sinner and show him how sinful he really is. Then the sinner will repent.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
your post here proves calvinism wrong
and open theism correct
who is decieved? a sinning person
when a person repents they stop sinning or they are still decieved! ( this proves calvinism wrong!) calvinism claims all people always keep sinning :westminster catechism"
calvinism in contrast to open theism claims the future is fixed and does not change! open theism is truth and teaches the future is open and a person who repents stops sinning and is no longer decieved!. heb 12
openairpreacher 3 years ago
You're taking 1 John 1:8 out of context. That was written to Gnostics.They claimed that they could sin in the flesh and still be right with God. In other words, they claimed to "have no sin" and yet deceived themselves because they continued to practice sin. If John were actually saying that we could do nothing "but' sin, then he wouldn't turn around and say this: "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not..."
mgtheology 2 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
your lop sided Idea of scripture is refected in calvinism's idea that people cannot choose to come to God on by own freewill
God does not drag/draw people against their will into salvation that is nonsense! and scripture proves it!
James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye doubleminded.
this scriptural is showing the faith of a person being exercised and God responding.. man draws then God
openairpreacher 3 years ago
both these scripture prove freewill in correct exegesis diametrically opposed to calvinism
Hebrews 10:22 (KJV) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:38-39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
openairpreacher 3 years ago
Rev. 2:23 (KJV) And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
this proves Calvinism wrong and proves Open theism correct if all history is fixed before it began then "a most vast amount" of the bible would be senseless God lets man make his own destiny and judges the freewill actions of men
openairpreacher 3 years ago
All this proves is that God judges sin. Of course He does. He would not be just if He didn't.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Please tell me where faith comes from. Can you produce faith with your flesh alone?
Hebrews 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith,
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Romans 12:3 as God has allotted to each (in the church) a measure of faith.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that BELIEVE to the saving of the soul.- And THAT is granted by God.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth
everything you said in this post proves calvinism is wrong!
faith is a gift from God so we can exercise it! faith come by hearing the word,, we can grow in faith! ect..
calvinism claims everything is fixed before the world was formed. it denies faith.
we must have total freewill to walk by faith!
openairpreacher 3 years ago
I'm not saying that we can't make choices. For example, I can choose between chocolate and vanilla ice cream. Of course we make choices. But an unregenerate person's will can't choose God. Men must be drawn. (See my other posts.)
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
if calvinism is correct God would not draw people,,open theism is a future open to change! many are called! few chosen!
this proves open theism correct!
God watches people and judges sinning people who refuse to repent!
there is a difference between the Holy Spirit tugging on a heart,, and calvinisms Idea God drags people into His kingdom
irresistibly. ...
God does not judge people and damn them to hell unless they have a choice to stop sinning! or God would be a unjust judge! open theism
openairpreacher 3 years ago
"many are called! few chosen!"
Absolutely! Now you're sounding like a Calvinist. LOL!
The call is to go out to all people, but only the chosen will genuinely respond and produce fruit. (parable of the 4 soils) When the elect hear the gospel, faith from above follows. This is not a mere intellectual type of faith. It is faith that is granted by God. I'm sorry that you hate scripture. You think Jesus did 60%, You do 40%. Jesus did not save you. You saved yourself. Now you can boast.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
@DefendingTheTruth Everyone is really supposed to be afraid of the straw man versions of blasphemy against God that you erect so that you can burn them down. It is for this reason that I am a non-religious theist rather than a "Christian" if being a christian means being like this. Now you can feel free to condemn me of whatever you wish! I saved myself, man, just like neo in the matrix. I saved myself, and then I ascneded my throne above the stars of God!
tgz1000 2 years ago
Again, we can preach till we're blue in the face.
Repent!
Believe!
Draw near to God!
Persevere!
But man can't do any of these things unless God grants it. Yet, we are still suppose to preach it to all men.
2 Corinthians 2:15-16 For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; (16) to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life. And who is adequate for these things?
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
God grants the choice to Love Him!
but never forced people into salvation
calvinism attempts to make God force salvation on unwilling people..
openairpreacher 3 years ago
Please show me in the Bible that God never wanted people to sin.
We are not to say that God tempts us. God does not temp us, but He uses means, like Satan, and lying spirits. (See my other posts)
For instance, God wanted Israel to know that he was their God, so he hardened Pharaoh's heart. God wanted Pharaoh to reject what Moses was saying, so that He would be glorified in punishing Pharaoh and showing His power to Israel through the plagues and red sea crossing.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
1 Kings 22:20-22 "The LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said this while another said that. (21) "Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.' (22) "The LORD said to him, 'How?' And he said, 'I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' Then He said, 'You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.'
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Proverbs 20:24 Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?
A man can't understand his own way because God has ordained his steps.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
I believe God predestined our works, and even our prayers (all our ways). This is why when we pray, it SEEMS that God is moved to react, when in reality, he is in sovereign control.
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
Tomorrow, I will teach my son a lesson.
1. I will ask my son to do something that I know he can't achieve on his own.
2. I warn him that if he fails, he will be punished.
3. My son realizes that he is failing in the task I gave him to do.
4. My son asks me to help him and not to punish him.
5. I REPENT of the punishment I warned my son of.
6. I succeed in teaching my son that he can't do certain things on his own without help.
Notice that repenting is part of my PLAN.
Eph 2:10
Pro 20:24
DefendingTheTruth 3 years ago
DefendingTheTruth said:
"1. I will ask my son to do something that I know he can't achieve on his own.
2. I warn him that if he fails, he will be punished."
That's just plain stupid and wrong!
mgtheology 2 years ago