What do you call this version of Fixed Step push hands, where you are permitted a step forward when executing a technique? Is it "Essential", as the Dutch apparently call it? The more standard style, of course, doesn't let you move anything at all apart from lifting the front part of the front foot.
Anyone talking shit about this obviously has no tournament experience whatsoever.The ones who enter into tournament at least have the balls to check out their form skills and learn in that setting.
Every week I do hours of push hands PROPERLY-notice how the waists of these players dont move?So I am talking from legitimate experience,as to the VALID documentary PUSHING THE ISSUE the original masters perfected the art in all its forms only arrogant americans would think they can improve a already perfected art.Post your form Johndomkelly and ill do same then we shall see who has the experience.
This was a very poor demo. of push hands,the winner had terrible posture and both were poorly versed on redirecting force.That said I was pleasantly suprised as american push hands comps. get MUCH worse,I can only appreciate my teachers efforts in teaching me proplery.Grapplers should not confuse push hands with wrestling as it is the redirecting of force and skilfully issuing force that should be involved,not brute strength or relying just on techniques.Thanks to the poster.
You think the redirection of force isn't a part of grappling? It's fundamental! I do it all the time in Judo randori, using a person's momentum from an attempted throw to throw them instead or to roll a person over on the ground because they're pushing too hard in a certain direction.
ok Thats a fair call BUT there is a marked difference from hard/external styles to soft/internal styles which is what tai chi is,you do redirect force,in a very tense forceful way,skill should always beat strength in properly executed techniques.
No there really isn't any difference at all. Redirection of force uses the same body mechanics no matter what you practice, and there have been a few times where I've sent someone flying without using any force at all. As a judo guy ideally I would want to be able to yield to an opponents force to throw them. You can see this ideal by watching judo kata, particularly itsusu-no-kata.
In every sparring or competition situation i´ve seen (on youtube), the pure form of any martial art never shows. It´s alway more or less boxing, kicking and grappling. So it´s no wonder that these guys maybe use a little more physical power than a good taijiquan teacher would want them to. But hey- who cares? This is interesting to watch, and that´s enough for me.
Practice like this, train like this, compete like this and you will fight like this and a Karate or a Judo white belt with strength can take them down in 10 seconds. THis is embarrassing. It is not even good Judo or good Greco, just some guys learning to push each other in some made-up restrictive manner. Horrible!
@user10102007 I respectfully disagree, the guy in blue does a great job of controlling the fight, of controlling his opponents spaces and power. I think you have the wrong impression of what's happening here.
they arent even doing the proper push hand movement, u are right all these american pushhands competition are way too restricted to try out real applications. however what they are doing will still help you with sensitivity.
Harpponflyby is right this is a way of testing sensitiviy and energy. You would not fight like this in a street fight but i you can apply the sensitivity principles. Just like boxers use bags, wing chun use dummies and chi sao, push hands are tools to an end.
I got a question for all you guys saying this is not real push hands. It's obvious you have never competed. So who do you think would react better in a street fight using their Tai Chi lets say the guy in blue or someone who is not used to trying against a committed opponent.
Still intersting to watch though... ;) But from the look of it the blue guy forgets his techniques once he meets a guy that is heavier than him. And, yes, yeilding is almost nonexistent in the seccond half.
U take it too seriously Womble. There is no sport of Tai chi pushands. And if anyone made that, then ofcorse they are wrong. Originaly pushands competitions were allowed by the masters for the fun of it and for teaching students to get better at centering, ballance, timing and so on. Thus their tai chi form would improve from it. Not for the sake of pushands. By it sel pushhands is a bit meaningless.
where is the yielding?isnt that strength on strength!where is the4oZ of pressure!
its more like wrestling than push hands
!this is sadly a joke i see alot these days.i bet the original creators of push hands are turning in there graves.where is the skill in what they are doing!serious this is so wrong.
to save face i think if this is realy a sport they should change the name to "push over"
Zhongding: Gotta play by the rules. This is not a fixed step match, thus no points were given away. The rules here are, "restricted step". You can take one step at a time forward, back, to side, as long as your front leg position is maintained. It's not totally realistic, but is a good way to meet a variety of others to test their sensitivity and energy.
A lot more gentler than what we're doing under Ren, but the judging seemed to be quite fair. Probably it's a very good contest to enter for anyone wishing to participate. Suggest it would make these contests much more interesting if more locks and throws were permitted during the contests. It's very difficult to restrain oneself from locking and throwing and so it slows the contests down and makes the action far less vigorous than it usually is in Taiji power push hands.
Check out Gary lam Taiji 4 clip. Push hand demo
bdzbk1 2 months ago
Seriously? This is considered a martial art? They would be better served to learn Greco Roman wrestling, Judo or Bjj.
tuopvm 7 months ago
how, the guy in blue is really good
randyds5 2 years ago
What do you call this version of Fixed Step push hands, where you are permitted a step forward when executing a technique? Is it "Essential", as the Dutch apparently call it? The more standard style, of course, doesn't let you move anything at all apart from lifting the front part of the front foot.
lordheber 2 years ago
Anyone talking shit about this obviously has no tournament experience whatsoever.The ones who enter into tournament at least have the balls to check out their form skills and learn in that setting.
johndomkelly 3 years ago
why dont you check out a doco. called pushing the issue - then run your mouth--how many american masters are there=0
abraxnos 3 years ago
What has this got to do with what I said?
Do you have any tournament experience? Probably not. Enter a tournament like this one and then talk FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE.
johndomkelly 3 years ago
Every week I do hours of push hands PROPERLY-notice how the waists of these players dont move?So I am talking from legitimate experience,as to the VALID documentary PUSHING THE ISSUE the original masters perfected the art in all its forms only arrogant americans would think they can improve a already perfected art.Post your form Johndomkelly and ill do same then we shall see who has the experience.
abraxnos 3 years ago
Good to know you push a lot. Just checking to see if you were for real or not. Lets meet at this tournament next year?
johndomkelly 3 years ago
Thankyou but i dont think that will happen,although Id like to know your thoughts on that doco. I mentioned
abraxnos 3 years ago
Great article. American Push hands judges should all really watch this. Thanks for sharing it.
johndomkelly 3 years ago
One of the best stationary Push Hand I ever come across...
victoriliqchuan 2 years ago
This was a very poor demo. of push hands,the winner had terrible posture and both were poorly versed on redirecting force.That said I was pleasantly suprised as american push hands comps. get MUCH worse,I can only appreciate my teachers efforts in teaching me proplery.Grapplers should not confuse push hands with wrestling as it is the redirecting of force and skilfully issuing force that should be involved,not brute strength or relying just on techniques.Thanks to the poster.
abraxnos 3 years ago
You think the redirection of force isn't a part of grappling? It's fundamental! I do it all the time in Judo randori, using a person's momentum from an attempted throw to throw them instead or to roll a person over on the ground because they're pushing too hard in a certain direction.
JustGuess500 3 years ago
ok Thats a fair call BUT there is a marked difference from hard/external styles to soft/internal styles which is what tai chi is,you do redirect force,in a very tense forceful way,skill should always beat strength in properly executed techniques.
abraxnos 3 years ago
No there really isn't any difference at all. Redirection of force uses the same body mechanics no matter what you practice, and there have been a few times where I've sent someone flying without using any force at all. As a judo guy ideally I would want to be able to yield to an opponents force to throw them. You can see this ideal by watching judo kata, particularly itsusu-no-kata.
JustGuess500 3 years ago
Correction, I meant koshiki-no-kata although the other one demonstrates the principles too.
JustGuess500 3 years ago
Why are they wrestling each other I thought this was Tai Chi
parkercastle 4 years ago
Tai chi is a grappling art.
rizzotherat 4 years ago
how many points does it take to win
osheen18 4 years ago
In every sparring or competition situation i´ve seen (on youtube), the pure form of any martial art never shows. It´s alway more or less boxing, kicking and grappling. So it´s no wonder that these guys maybe use a little more physical power than a good taijiquan teacher would want them to. But hey- who cares? This is interesting to watch, and that´s enough for me.
CareMachine42 4 years ago
Practice like this, train like this, compete like this and you will fight like this and a Karate or a Judo white belt with strength can take them down in 10 seconds. THis is embarrassing. It is not even good Judo or good Greco, just some guys learning to push each other in some made-up restrictive manner. Horrible!
user10102007 4 years ago
Glad to hear it's not good Judo or Greco.
harpoonflyby 4 years ago
@user10102007 this is not judo or greco, it is poorly done tai chi
MDNSBS 1 year ago
@MDNSBS I wouldn't necessarily say poor, maybe beginner.
To do it right you have to learn to move in a different way, it's hard enough slow, but when you speed up old reactions come into play.
evolutionjoe 1 year ago
@user10102007 I respectfully disagree, the guy in blue does a great job of controlling the fight, of controlling his opponents spaces and power. I think you have the wrong impression of what's happening here.
evolutionjoe 1 year ago
@user10102007
they arent even doing the proper push hand movement, u are right all these american pushhands competition are way too restricted to try out real applications. however what they are doing will still help you with sensitivity.
timpuget 10 months ago
This bald guy is good but far from Taiji
thankall 4 years ago
Harpponflyby is right this is a way of testing sensitiviy and energy. You would not fight like this in a street fight but i you can apply the sensitivity principles. Just like boxers use bags, wing chun use dummies and chi sao, push hands are tools to an end.
koliflowering 5 years ago
I got a question for all you guys saying this is not real push hands. It's obvious you have never competed. So who do you think would react better in a street fight using their Tai Chi lets say the guy in blue or someone who is not used to trying against a committed opponent.
wizcoolc 5 years ago
you are correct, in Chen Village (where push hands was invented) they don't do much fixed step and the rules allow leg sweeps and so forth
harpoonflyby 5 years ago
First time I see pushing hands using brutt force. It is more like sumo wreasting than pushing hands. There is also a lack in changes on strokes.
denzuko1 5 years ago
I agree
spookie42verizonnet 5 years ago
Still intersting to watch though... ;) But from the look of it the blue guy forgets his techniques once he meets a guy that is heavier than him. And, yes, yeilding is almost nonexistent in the seccond half.
CT2507 5 years ago
U take it too seriously Womble. There is no sport of Tai chi pushands. And if anyone made that, then ofcorse they are wrong. Originaly pushands competitions were allowed by the masters for the fun of it and for teaching students to get better at centering, ballance, timing and so on. Thus their tai chi form would improve from it. Not for the sake of pushands. By it sel pushhands is a bit meaningless.
Cheers...
CT2507 5 years ago
you are a very strange person
harpoonflyby 5 years ago
He means that they aren't doing push hands the way it should be done.
cfG21 5 years ago
You are correct
spookie42verizonnet 5 years ago
tai chi power push hands?another joke i guess!
no offence but what the hell does this rubbish have to do with tai chi.
halfwit instructors teaching there whimsy understandings of such a fine art is a disgrace.
it goes against everything tai chi is.
very sad
wombledon 5 years ago
lolol,
if that is proper push hands..OH MY,
where is the yielding?isnt that strength on strength!where is the4oZ of pressure!
its more like wrestling than push hands
!this is sadly a joke i see alot these days.i bet the original creators of push hands are turning in there graves.where is the skill in what they are doing!serious this is so wrong.
to save face i think if this is realy a sport they should change the name to "push over"
absolute garbage
wombledon 5 years ago
Zhongding: Gotta play by the rules. This is not a fixed step match, thus no points were given away. The rules here are, "restricted step". You can take one step at a time forward, back, to side, as long as your front leg position is maintained. It's not totally realistic, but is a good way to meet a variety of others to test their sensitivity and energy.
harpoonflyby 5 years ago
A lot more gentler than what we're doing under Ren, but the judging seemed to be quite fair. Probably it's a very good contest to enter for anyone wishing to participate. Suggest it would make these contests much more interesting if more locks and throws were permitted during the contests. It's very difficult to restrain oneself from locking and throwing and so it slows the contests down and makes the action far less vigorous than it usually is in Taiji power push hands.
rothcroi 5 years ago
This is Tai Chi Push Hand.. oh man. it's more like sumo 101.
koobphong 5 years ago
The guy in blue was good but he needs to quit moving forwards in a fixed step match. he gave all the points away.
zhongding 5 years ago
This is a good match.
taichi29 5 years ago
Three Cheers for the "blue" guy!!! He is real good !! keep the the "feel"!!!!
jamesteowm 5 years ago