James Burke : The Day The Universe Changed: "In The Light Of The Above", 3 of 5 (CC)

[hiqhduke]

Burke's masochistic Islamophilia and Western self-abasement is uncalled for bc 'Arab knowledge' was largely a Persian phenomenon based on books the Arabs plundered from Greco-Roman libraries in N.Africa established since Alexander. Thanx for the documentaries but I also gotta say: Fuck you James Burke!

[DrDopehat]

@hiqhduke

"masochistic Islamophilia" ? Would you do me a favor and explain what that means

[athroughzidontcare]

AP WORLD YEAAAA

[Vangrungy]

mo/allah is the cause of the loss of roman accumulated knowledge...

Burke doesn't mention that the Cordova mosque used to be the Visigoth Christian St Vincent Church which was forced out of the slave Christian hands... The first half by decree, the second by forced sale...

St Vincent was the last Christian worship space in Cordova... islam is evil...

[lk1347]

@Vangrungy WOAH. Islam is not evil. All religions have made a lot of mistakes in the past. Don't hate.

[Vangrungy]

@lk1347

Tell that to the endangered Coptic Christians

[TheLastBrainLeft]

Is it me, or is this an edited version of this episode. I seem to recall that the part which begins at 6:35 involved a perplexed priest who had no idea what a zero was and, without any comparable translatable word, fixed the image of a zero as an empty hole, which is how it manifests itself today.

Or am I confusing this with another episode?

[patfealy]

well those backwoods Americans destroyed all that wonderful German architecture. Richard Strauss, composed opera, and e bombed the Vienna Opera. how like southern Spain was the 3rd Reich. Camelot

[TheLastBrainLeft]

@patfealy Oh, the ignorance. Where do I begin?

[angryniggah]

thank you!

[Philonus]

Is James Burke still alive? If so then what is he doing now?

[JamesBurkeWeb]

I'm sure he is. No idea what he's been up to lately.

[painxtreme]

@JamesBurkeWeb Date of Birth: 12/22/1936 Current Age: 74



[jozef3001]

Justinians law codes, which James mentions where not lost, they were only the first in a long list of law books develop in Byzantium, nothing like them existed in Europe or the Near East at the time, and later emperors well into the 12th Century revised and developed these law codes. You cannot be a primitive, to build something like Hagia Sophia. We need to overcome our western prejudice of the east, to give the Byzantine Empire its due. The West had a dark age the East did not.

[JamesBurkeWeb]

I'm not sure. That's probably true.

He doesn't actually say that the empire's law texts were lost to the Arabs, only that in 1066 the texts became known to the "Christian west".

He doesn't say where or how this discovery was made, and I personally don't know. Perhaps you could cite a reference to look up? I could use it as the profile link corresponding to this feature.

- JBW

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Sorry, I should say, he doesn't say whether Justinian law was known to the Arabs after the ... (let's say "near collapse" then) ... the near collapse of the Roman empire.

[Maverickrad]

@jozef3001 Excuse me, but who were actually the Byzanthian(Eastern Roman Empire)?? I can't understand why likes of you try to separate Byzantine empire from Roman empire and regard it as EAST or non-roman. Even they called themselves Romans. Constantine the Great of course a Roman emperor established Constantinopole and flourished it with Roman knowledge. Here I'll give you several undeniable facts that will totally write those bogus make-ups.

[Maverickrad]

Respond to this video... The Church of St Sophia, One of the great breakthroughs in the history of Western architecture occurred when Justinian's( Roman, born in Macedonia) architects invented a complex system providing for a smooth transition from a square plan of the church to a circular dome by means of pendentives(Roman technique). The Sancta Sophia built by Greek-Roman engineering knowledge not easterns. Everything that you claim existed in Italy back then.

[Maverickrad]

Respond to this video... Basilica of Sant'Apollinare Nuovo is its evidence. There was nothing to be flourished in Italy which as you probably know was the founder of or Byzantine empire. Italy fourished late because it was under tyrannic rulers and barbarians for about 700 years. There is no credit to be give to east for what actually belonged to west. I know easterns and Turk-Ottomans try to make Byzantine as an eastern civilization, but that is simply impossible.

[Maverickrad]

@jozef3001 There is no Arab knowledge. Alcohol for example discovered by a Persian scientist calles Rhazes and arabs simply credited to themselves.! Go figure the rest!

[jozef3001]

Love the programme; it still perpetuated the myth that without Islam all knowledge would have been lost. The Roman Empire never total collapsed. The Eastern Empire develop so much, that the later rulers, had to stop professionals from travelling into Arab areas to stop a brain drain, leaders of various Arab Cities and States, paid good money to get the educated professionals from Byzantium, to educated and treat both them and their people.

[ing420021]

"how implacable can u get with your mother-in-law?" :)) well, obviously he never met mine

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Haha.

[PaulUmbarger]

I've always sort of belived that most of the knowledge that was gained after the fall of Arab Spain was what the Arabs acquired when they sacked the Eastern Roman Empire. Most of that data was previously Greek and Roman and by taking the Eastern Empire, they got the sciences and literature. Coulc be wrong though, I wasn't there back then! LOL!

[JamesBurkeWeb]

It was discovered in a Monastery in Persia in 714 AD when the the founder of Baghdad, Caliph Al-Mansur (ابو جعفر عبدالله ابن محمد المنصور‎), became ill and went there to be treated methods based on astrology. It was an accident and might never have happened had the Caliph not gotten well again!

[JamesBurkeWeb]

P.S. See episode Connections, Episode 5. It's all explained there.

[TheLastBrainLeft]

@PaulUmbarger Pretty much. The Arabs were nice enough to hold onto our knowledge while we struggled through the Dark Ages. Very little of it was original to the Arabs. Probably the last positive act of Islam in recorded history.

[PaulUmbarger]

@TheLastBrainLeft That's sort of how I've always viewed ot too.

[harrytuttle100]

we call arabs savages because certain ones think its a good idea to behead civilians and film it....other than that i bet they are a really nice bunch of people

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Of course they are. People are generally nice if left to make up their own minds about right and wrong and other moral things.

Problem is, it doesn't take much to get even the nicest of people all worked up over some random thing then get them to engage in the most inexcusable acts of immorality. And "we" are no different.

Some nice, friendly, and very thoughtful Americans once thought it perfectly rational and civilized to wipe an entire city off the face of the earth for instance.

- JBW

[lazyweb]

Just for perspective, google "Wars of Religion" or Cromwell's protectorate or frankly, european history in general.

There are no civilians in a holy war. The Catholics knew it, the Protestants knew it, the Muslims knew it. It's the nature of religion. In fact, the Muslims are the closest to the 'live and let live' philosophy with their 'People of the Book' policy.

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Yes, in general. Unfortunately we are far too preoccupied with "the particular".

[unamacarana]

...and we call the arabs barbarians.....

[JamesBurkeWeb]

It's funny how words lose their meanings over time... of course it's Europeans who are more closely related to the Barbarians than Arabs. I mean, in the proper sense... the Barbarian invaders came mainly from the north consisting of 4 subgroups (Vandals, Huns, Visigoths and Ostrogoths [Gothics]) and invaded Europe, not Asia. If you're curious, the label is actually onomatopoeic in Greek where it originated (βάρβαρος), Bar-bar sounding like gibberish spoken by a foreigner.

[neemz2000]

"Oh this lot again".

LOL.

[JamesBurkeWeb]

I know... I know... too funny for words.

- JBW

[Thornfox]

A nice reminder that Islam used to be at the forefront of science and societal progress.

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Yes, and it's quite sad because the most crucial and moving scene from this episode was cut out to make room for commercials.

That scene, which lasts about 3 seconds in this version, is the one where the Jesuit priests and Monks are translating the Arabic manuscripts found in Toledo and sounding out many now-familiar Arabic words and names. Words such as "Azimuth", or names such as "Al-Jebra".

The "universe changing" scene for this episode, simply cut out to sell toothpaste. Shame...

- JBW

[ing420021]

so can we see the scene anywhere?? or was the original piece of film containing it destroyed after being classed as "useless"??

[JamesBurkeWeb]

Not anywhere that I know of. Not even a torrent.