Tim Wise vs. Jared Taylor The Merits of Racial Diversity 6/10

[YoungTon22]

in 2011 i cant believe that there are still white people that think they are naturally smarter than black people. that shits crazy. to think iq has nothing to do with the schools you attended and the enviroment you grew in is awesome ignorance! smh. its a damn shame that i have to vote with you

[ventilatedzygote]

Wise misses the point on the Asian thing. First of all, if they really are more impoverished, the language barrier might play into that, or maybe depression and lethargy caused by social alienation in a foreign country is the culprit (but that's just my baseless speculation.) More importantly though, he basically sweeps the IQ/test score problem under the rug. This guy is a marvel of modern science, he knows all the facts yet he chooses to live in his "equal" fantasy.

[starman380]

Tim Wise is tricky like a dirty car salesman but still Jared Taylor mostly beat him.

[firstladyshine]

First of all, though the US school system reaches about every citizen in the country, it still has one of the worst school systems imaginable. Much of what we learn here is bullshit, thats why we can't compete with China. Also, for those of us who can't afford private school, the public school district system allows pple of higher class to get a better education. Poor pple (mostly minorities) go to poor schools with poorly paid teachers & are loosing more & more money as the years go by.

[firstladyshine]

@firstladyshine Whats everyone's prob? I don't find Wise to be prejudice. Blak pple who speak negetively yet truthfully about other blacks are usually aplauded by whites. Wise' comment about blacks who go to college... closing the IQ gap seems to make pple upset. It makes perfect sense if you consider the fact that it may be a black persons first time going to a good schoo... Is it uncomfortable to think that black pple may be just as capable as any other if given equal opportunities to succeed?

[nameofthepen]

I'm loving this debate. Thanks for the upload. I'm getting a little bored though, that it is getting into the old "racial" arguments.

I was hoping it would stay in the realm of "Do I, and other people like me, have a perfect right to live in a neighborhood of our own making and choosing, without being accused of being 'evil, politically-incorrect, White supremacists'?"

[allenco65]

@nameofthepen yeah man me too

[EandA23]

They forget Asians go to school all damn day, sun up to sun down

[deborah101ify]

I wonder if Mr. Wise have ever heard of the saying give him enough rope and he will hang himself. Will the more that Mr. Wise talks thats what he is doing.

[shaudee67]

Oh God! When is Tim Wise going to give a concise answer? He needs to take a gigantic dose of pepto bismal for his incessant verbal diarrhea!

[strong8action]

I love how everytime the jew recites one of his fast talking, long winded diatribes, Jared simply mentions a brief factual comment "look at blacks around the world and they all live in a particular way" haha SO TRUE.

BTW the caller pwns the Weis

[ruapraia]

Time Wise is way more informed, and armed with facts.

[UserUK201]

@ruapraia Yeah like his claim that white schools are just as violent as inner city black schools hahahaha

[Suisseflight]

Jared Taylor forgets that during slavery the plantation owners killed the 'smart' slaves. It was illegal for any slave, Native American/African descendant, too read. That is why the IQ's of the gene pool of these groups were reduced and least likely to delineate into modern day society. Yet IQ can improve through life despite the predisposition imposed as Tim Wise explained with college blacks. Nature and nurture augments intelligence through life.

[strong8action]

@Suisseflight LOL If you're arguing that whites lowered black IQ by killing smart slaves, you are very misinformed. First off whites wouldn't kill slaves because that would be a terrible investment. Slaves were considered as property so a live slave was worth more money to the owner than a dead one. You're silly to believe such nonsense. Secondly, how can you think whites lowered black IQ by "killing smart slaves" when African blacks who's ancestors completely avoided slavery also have low IQsk?

[inittowinit3]

@strong8action Alabama, 1833, section 31 - "Any person or persons who attempt to teach any free person of color, or slave, to spell, read, or write, shall, upon conviction thereof by indictment, be fined in a sum not less than two hundred and fifty dollars, nor more than five hundred dollars." learn your history clown no shit a dead slave is worth less then an alive one. 

[daming209]

disparity between different groups on IQ is not uncommon between blacks and whites. you can fin the 15 point gap between northern and southern Europeans. between differnt ethnic groups within India. Read Thomas Sowell tim wise!!!

[AntonBatey]

@daming209

You're right. Sowell talks a lot about that in Race and Culture and Black Rednecks and White Liberals, two of the best books on race, in my opinion.

However, those facts counter Jared Taylor's thesis more than it does Tim Wise's.

[InertLoop]

@daming209 That's not true, I'm afraid. Average IQ in all Europe is almost the same. For instance, Spain has an average of 99 and Italy of 102--White American average IQ is around 100. Even South American countries like Argentina and Urugay have Higher IQ average (96) than African Americans. Barbados, which is the only developed Black country in the world, has 78(!). Sub-Saharan Africa is the region with the lowest IQ average in the world, e.g. Equatorial Guinea has an average IQ of 59(!!!!).

[MrXfree57]

@InertLoop .Were these IQ test given and created by white people?

[daming209]

second asian are more likely to get mortage loans than whites. White were turned down more on mortage loans compared to asians. Shut the fuck up TIm WIse. I don't agree with jared taylor on the white nationalism part but I do believe you exaggerate the racism. FUCK YOU!!

[strawberrylaralara]

@daming209 ouch white denial!!

[daming209]

southeast asians are more likely to be poor not because of racism. It's because of their cultural background where they came from. They came from rural, mostly agricultural settings.

[daming209]

the groups that demand less are more likely to succeed in the long run.

[daming209]

the reason why Asians earn more is because they try not to get into government regulations. They go build jobs at places where there are very little government regulaions and they don't hire other people but only their family memebers

[TheTypicalGirl]

The notion of statistical significance is arbitrary and values decrease with more evidence. If you flip a coin 100 times and you get 47 heads and 53 tails, it would mean nothing. The difference could easily be the result of mere chance. However, if you flip it 1 million times and you get 470,000 heads and 530,00 tails, that becomes much less likely to be a matter of chance. It would be foolish to treat the latter similar to the former.

[sdrob40]

Someone should tell Mr. Taylor to pop the Asian dick out of his mouth.....that's his problem, he's doing to everyone else what the Japanese did to him.

[truth3712]

People in america have better teeth than people in britain. Does that mean that americans have better genes for teeth or that we just have better dental care? Japanese people have better educational systems. They don't have just naturally high IQs.

[thoughtly]

They have better dentistry. a British dentist would have to go back to school in order to practice in the US. There is a small IQ difference.

[truth3712]

well if they have great dentistry i'm not sure what's going on because their teeth look disgusting. maybe it's because they smoke more or something? idunno but their teeth are really special hmm.

[JohnAdamCulligan]

Indeed. I would not be at all surprised if it turned out that the typical British language faculty was superior - by a stretch - to the language faculty of the typical southern White of English descent. Anecdotally, at least, it appears to be manifestly true and obvious.

[truth3712]

Yes, I agree which is why it is stupid for southern whites to talk about the ebonics of blacks when no one in america speaks correct english. Everyone's shit stinks just because your shit has an acquired smell to you doesn't meant that it doesn't stink.

[CatholicConversion]

@truth3712 Well, and there's nothing wrong with ebonics anyway. I grew up listening to jazz as well as Eric B and Rakim, as much as Beethoven. I think that these individuals are missing many of the root causes, which can be environmental as well as genetic.

Put it this way, if we focused Michael Jordon to paint instead of play ball, he might have been an above average painter but what would we have lost as a player? People focus far too much as societal pressures and normative analysis.

[CatholicConversion]

@truth3712 The idea that an IQ expands rapidly and changes has never been shown in any study, Mr. Wise is lying and is fabricating his data. He has done this on several occasions. Mr Taylor is advancing a 50/50 in terms of genetics/environment. That is approximately correct when speaking of non-ideologically based studies have determined.

[HRHPrincePhilip1]

That Tim Wise guy wont shut the fuck up and he seems to be talking shit too. It seems Tim Wise must have devoted a lot of his life to proving that white people are inherently nasty and racist towards other people. Why? I don't see other races of people so keen to display their self hatred and to apologise for anything. Chinese people do have higher IQs than whites. Here in Britain they also get better educational qualifications and committ less crime. Blacks the opposite. Its the truth.

[AntonBatey]

The only opposition I'd have to foreigners coming here is if they want t exploit the welfare system. But I'm opposed to the welfare system anyway, regardless who utilizes it.

States and their borders are artificial and illegitimate, so I could care less who comes here, works and acquires property.

[Suisseflight]

@AntonBatey But that is a rare and minute possibility for foreigners using the welfare system. The welfare system is abused by our citizens and corporations. I as a foreigner in Switzerland have been accused of using the 'welfare' system is a flat out stereotype. Lazy people don't move, it's too much work and risk.

[PriestessLeah]

LOL This is a strange White Nationalist, kissing Asians' behinds. I have nothing against Asians, I am the first one to defend them when White friends say things about them but I never understood why WNs do this, it's very bizarre.

I used to know this WN wannabe who enjoyed talking about Mexicans being stupid. Well I eventually found out that he was part Cherokee. Guess what race [most] Mexicans are? Amerindian. Cherokees? Amerindian. Owned by his own stupidity.

[Jemma1487]

LOL. they are confuseed, cant win black argument throw in some Asians, they are light skinned...loool

[Mr1700]

i guess they have to explain why asians have better iqs and outperform them. saying its hereditary is is their excuse.

[ultimatetalesfan19]

Asians like whites are a very quiet and purely spiritual people with a very strong unspoken culture revolving around music, entrepreneuralism and family, so we simply wish them well and sort of cheer them on when they are trying to protect their culture in this very loud and socially deconstructive world.

[OmorosePanya]

Taylor doesn't understand what statistical significance is. Anything below 6% is considered statistically insignificant because it is what is EXPECTED due to confounding variables. Since everyone is not a clone, of course you need to allow for a little variation. That variation is not simply going to disappear because 20 studies were performed with the same results---with the same types of people---who are still not clones. (<---breakdown)

[59Gretsch]

his point was that many studies with large numbers of subjects all show the same basic point difference, it adds to the soundness of the findings.

[OmorosePanya]

Shit... I mean 5% (which is the popular one, though it can vary). And it does not matter. You can have 10,000 studies with 1% of something but it does not matter unless they have controlled for everything they possibly can. Even so, it doesn't matter because the percentage is not high enough to do so.

For HIS argument to be significant, the numbers need to be a hell of a lot higher than he's suggesting and it still notes nothing of biology.

[TheTypicalGirl]

@OmorosePanya You'd have to take some time to delve into the research. There is plenty of it. Everything that can be controlled for has been (education level of parents, social status of parents, income of parents, books in the home, television viewing, tutoring, physical health etc. etc. etc.) The white/black IQ doesn't go away.

[OmorosePanya]

@TheTypicalGirl Cite some solid studies for me. And then explain to me how the results automatically indicate biology.

[TheTypicalGirl]

@OmorosePanya I'm afraid it is you who don't understand what statistical significance means. P values vary by area of study. In some cases . 01 is considered statistically significant. Having said that, a result that repeatedly falls beneath the p valid is not invalidated. The difference in birth rates of boys and girls is less than 6% the world over but no one believes the difference is due to chance. It has been demonstrated too consistently.

[OmorosePanya]

@TheTypicalGirl In some cases, yes. I wasn't talking about everything, however. I was talking about this. And you really must admit that this debate varies greatly from the issue of the birth rate between boys and girls.

[TheTypicalGirl]

@OmorosePanya Likewise, the IQ gap has been shown in THOUSANDS of studies. Yes, that's more than enough to say that this is not the result of mere chance.

I mean, if you can't even get to the point where you recognize that the IQ gap is not a matter of mere statistical chance, you aren't even equipped to engage in the debate.

[DEPORTALLILLEGALS]

@OmorosePanya Statistical significance has nothing to do with "confounding variables." It's a concept that estimates that extent to which one can expect mere chance to contribute to observed differences. It says nothing whatsoever about variable other than complete randomness. The more you see the result, the less simple randomness should effect the outcome.

Taylor understand this and you don't. Tim Wise seemed to be saying that it was synonymous with mere "significance" which is laughable.

[CBALLEN]

Why don't people get up in arms about the lop sidedness of sports teams being predomantly black?Why aren't minorities held to the same standards when it comes to testing for government jobs as whites when everyone has the right to the same public education or college entrance exams?I think that when hiring ,names,sex and adresses should be left off when testing for a job so everyone will be on a level playing field.What's wrong with that?

[extremophile]

Unlike many other situations, there is no known history of anti-non-black discrimination in sports. The possibility of *unfair* discrimination is what makes the difference. Racial quotas are a dumb way to "fix" it though, and even some black people like Thomas Sowell and Carol Swain agree, it's likely to more often just make things worse, even racism itself.

[DaHonestAbe]

Ouch! Tim Smoked him on the IQ theory.

[CatholicConversion]

@DaHonestAbe Absolutely incorrect. Mr. Wise has absolutely no concept of genetics nor IQ studies at all. Identical twin studies have routinely dissproved his theory. The evidence in fact does not place the average white at all as the apex of the human race in terms of IQ level.

Typically, Jewish, North East Asians ect display a higher IQ level than whites in general, and across borders, towns, cities, cultures, ect.

[DaHonestAbe]

Well are you trying to say that Taylor has a higher concept? It didnt seem so.

[CatholicConversion]

@DaHonestAbe A higher concept? Why? Because I have pointed out that he routinely creates fantastical information?

What I stated had actually no moral/ethical basis. I am speaking primarily of genetics and how laughably derelict he is regarding this subject.

Philosophically, I agree with neither actually. Life is not even slightly as simplistic as both attempt to portray.

[Decimator334]

@DaHonestAbe What!?!?

[1999smiley]

The older guy owned the redneck in this argument! Asians have larger brains and higher IQ's.... this is such OLD OLD scientific information. Asia was the centre of the world (fell behind for ~100 years) and is reclaiming no.1 spot right now...

[realrocky8591]

"The older guy owned the redneck in this argument!"

OLDER guy? Isn't Jared Taylor the older guy??