Reasons for Faith #3

[newfrontier01]

Its been a great week here in Ireland. Our new priminister finally gave the pope a proper going over re: the lies, cover ups, and ongoing abuses of the catholic church in relation to innocent children. Telling him that the rule of law supercedes canon law. Not being from Ireland, you would never appreciate the control the church had on all levels of government, the police, and everyday people. The church was never questioned and we have a history of destroyed lives because of blind faith!

[CatholicLegionary]

@wjl1970 You're quite ignorant in saying "there is not enough evidence Jesus existed"...there is too much evidence to prove He came to earth; only the ignorant overlook this

[CatholicLegionary]

@wjl1970 Jesus founded the Church: "...and your name shall be Peter, and on this ROCK i shall establish my CHURCH..." See?

[CatholicLegionary]

@wjl1970 Examine the origins of your arguments! You did not have any Catholic theology shoved down your throat, or you'd know all about the Traditions (note: capital T) that are in the catholic church. Point out to me a religion with no tradition at all. And if you keep denying Catholic doctrine, go ahead. Only think to yourself: "what will i say to God in the Holy Tribunal, when i'm judged for EVERYTHING i said and did? (every little detail, from making a big decision to commenting here)"

[CatholicLegionary]

@wjl1970 Examine the origins of your arguments! You did not have any Catholic theology shoved down your throat, or you'd know all about the Traditions (note: capital T) that are in the catholic church. Point out to me a religion with no tradition at all. And if you keep denying Catholic doctrine, go ahead. Only think to yourself: "what will i say to God in the Holy Tribunal, when i'm judged for EVERYTHING i said, did...every little detail, from making a big decision to commenting here?"

[wjl1970]

I notice that you didn't respond to my challenge to investigate the origins of your beliefs. I do it all the time - if you're going to base your whole life around a specific religion, wouldn't you want to thoroughly examine it's origins before you just jump in with blind faith. As I said before, many aspects of catholicism are not even christian and certainly not biblical. It's because of these discrepencies and abuses by the church - that the protestent revolution caught on.

[frank2033]

@wjl1970 You also didn't respond to my challenge about what Christ founded ( a church) maybe ? If you go by your own interpretation of the bible then you get as many different denominations as the different people interpreting scripture. It's a question of authority. The bible (your personal interpretation) alone or did Christ leave someone (apostles) in charge? Do you know the history of the New Testament ? how did it get written down? who wrote it down? When? At what point WHO auhorized it?

[frank2033]

@wjl1970 Do you know the history of the apostles? The early Church? What did they practice? What did they teach? What did they live for ? What did they go to their deaths for? Remember , they did die horrible deaths. Did they believe in infant baptism? In the Most Holy Eucharist being the Body and Blood soul and divinity of God or not? Did they believe that Peter was the head of this body of believers ? Or did they go by sola scriptura ? That would have been a neat trick because the New

[frank2033]

@wjl1970 That would have been a neat trick(impossible) because there was this group ( the apostles and their successors) that by word alone they preached to the people. To know early christian church history is to be Catholic. If listening to Jesse Romero and his explanation/defense of our faith you can't accept it ,then what can I say ? To know early church history is to cease to be protestant . Or atheist or whatever you are.

[wjl1970]

I stopped being a Catholic when I reached the age of reason. I say this because I find it amazing that so many people who dedicate their lives to a certain faith never seem to investigate its origins. Even a cursory examination of catholic belief systems indicates that many aspects of catholic doctrine have little correlation to scripture.

[frank2033]

@wjl1970 you obviously haven't been listening. If you had been he would've given you all the reason to remain Catholic. Because Jesus established it personally, directly and historically."To him the gatekeeper opens : the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and he leads them out. When he has brought out all his own , he goes before them , and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. "

[wjl1970]

@frank2033 How do you know that Jesus established the catholic church "personally, directly, historically". Even if we accept there is a God - how can we be sure it's the God of the catholic church? There are other "holy" books that claim divine inspiration with people believing that their faith is the one true faith. How can you be sure that you are right and they are wrong?

[frank2033]

@wjl1970 Did any of those gods die for you? Did those babylonian gods or Budhha or any love you or wetre they just your masters and not know you as their children ?

[wjl1970]

@frank2033 I never suggested that any of these Gods died for me. As an agnostic (and former catholic) I don't believe there's enough evidence to confirm if there is a god let alone a one true faith. If you refer to my posts - my point was that if you look at catholic doctrine you will notice that much of it is influenced by babylonian/pagan beliefs. There are many books on the subject with very clear evidence that these belief systems crept into catholicism

[calchica1]

@wjl1970 You didn't happen to also read the bible did you?

[wjl1970]

@calchica1 I've been reading the bible for years. I've had plenty of catholic theology shoved down my throat from primary school all the way to university. If you look at the origins of many catholic beliefs, you'll notice that they are not rooted in the bible but are more associated with ancient babylonian beliefs. I'm an agnostic now but if I ever believed in christianity again I think I'd associate myself with a mainstream protestant church. Examine the origin of your beliefs!

[wjl1970]

@frank2033 Just humor me for a few minutes and google catholic church and babylonian/pagan beliefs. You will see there is copious liturature and websites that explain the non-christian origins of many catholic beliefs. You owe it to yourself to investigate this. If after a thorogh examination of your beliefs you still feel that your with the one true church than fine.

[frank2033]

@wjl1970 Are you saying that my worship , my prayers might be going to whoever whatever might be out there ? It just might not be" my" God . Because I have a personal relationship with my daddy my "abba". I wish I or God really would open you to Him.

[wjl1970]

@frank2033 At the very least even if we agree that the God of the bible is the one true God and christianity is the one true faith - how can we be sure that catholicism represents that faith accurately? If you go back to the time of Martin Luther you realise that people historically have had concerns regarding the accuracy and origins of catholic doctrine. It was the abuses of the church which included distortions of christian doctrine that led to the protestant revolution.

[wjl1970]

@frank2033 I return to my original premise that much of catholic doctrine has it's origins not from the bible but ancient babylonian belief systems and the impaired psycho-sexual traditions of a male dominated clergy. I find it interesting that fundamentalist catholics claim that their religion is the one true christian faith when it in fact is contaminated with doctrine and beliefs that are not even remotely christian.

[wjl1970]

@frank2033 If I ever believed in a christian god again I would certainly not be a member of the catholic church. I would probably join a mainstream protestant church which believes in the fundamentals of the gospels and not the traditions and distortions of the catholic church. I'm sure if we lived in Luther's time we would both renounce our faith in the catholic church.

The church at that time wanted people not to read the bible, and wanted to keep people under the thumb via papal doctrine.

[wjl1970]

@frank2033 I would encourage you to read literature re: the reformation and the difficulties with catholic doctrine being passed off as christian. I would further encourage you to look up references to babylonian beliefs and their influence on catholic doctrine and beliefs.

[DrWagnerCanek]

Thanks dude, you are awesome!! we NEED more Catholic apologists!!!

[stuart20017]

Amen Jesse, Amen!