They mistook God to be these people's gods that's why they say their "Elohim", that is to say, their false version of our God. But of course these gods do not even exist, so that nothing right can be used to describe them except that they are false. And if you say that Elohim, this plurality word stresses this royalty, why then is it used equally of other "gods", if we follow your logic?
I wasn't really trying to establish a point so much as "dis-establishing" a Trinitarian point - that elohim hints at plurality within a "godhead."
I'm saying that Elohim is not exclusively used with regard to the Most High. It is also used for men (like Moshe) and other deities because they are all considered mighty ones in some sense by someone.
But as the article I link to states, only Yahweh is the Mighty one of all Mighty Ones.
(the Sun cannot be without its sunlight, as God cannot be without His Image, that is His Son our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ), "who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person" (Hebrews 1:3).
Thirdly, your saying that Elohim when being used to address the other "gods" of other peoples establishes nothing on your side. For they are not really gods at all, in fact Scripture identifies them as "false" if so, how can they even be mighty or God in any sense?
Another thing not mentioned to have been created is "THE IMAGE of God". That is, it was pre-existent to its being put in to man. So God has an Image and a Spirit. Therefore this Image and this Spirit are God. This is Image is none other than the Christ who said: "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father", and whom St. Paul calls "the Image of God" (2 Corinthians 4:4), and also the brightness and radiance
Secondly we see things distinct of God, and yet proper to Him (thereby also being God), just as my mind is distinct from me in one sense, but is also me in another sense. And my body is distinct from me, but also proper to me, and therefore me in another sense. So too, when the second verse of Genesis 1 says and the Spirit hovered over the face of the deep (nothing mentioned about the Spirit being created), then know this Spirit is proper to Yahweh, and is indeed also One with Him.
My second point is, why this plurality then? What can it be explained by if it does not imply monarchiality at all? (It only appears three times in the Hebrew Bible when reffering to God outside of the word Elohim in pronouns like "Us", our "Our") Surely it would have been used more often or frequently to establish this like the Qur'an does? But it does not, it is used in specific examples.
Concerning "Us" - you dismissed the notion that it was referring to the angelic host. But in Isaiah 6:1-8 Yah is surrounded by seraphim. He says (in verse 8) "who shall I (sing.) send and who will go for us." Yah does the sending - not the seraphim, but He says "us" to include the seraphim as being represented also. To me, this very strongly leads me to think that a similar thing is happening in Genesis 1:26 - Yah alone creating but the angelic host also being represented. If that makes sense.
It makes so sense because then it makes the sentence "Let US MAKE" utterly meaningless. Only One Being can Create and that is, He Who is God. Angels CANNOT create, and neither can they send. There is nothing that explicitly states that God was speaking about the seraphim in that verse either.
But indeed it does signify some kind of plurality in God. There is no other reference before second century AD where the plural is every meant singular in Semitic languages, this is only a later linguistical development, as is witnessed in the Qur'an. Secondly Elohim is used to refer to other people's gods. But that does really mean that they are gods! They are false idols, but to these pagans, they mistake them to be Elohim Himself.
That is why it is so surprising to see that in the Tanakh, the Jews tried to explain away the verse: "Let Us make man in Our Image, and in Our Likeness." As God speaking to the angels. But surely this is nonsense. Only God has the Attribute of Creating reality from utter nothingness. We as humans with minds (limited in comparison with the Divine Mind), can be creative unlike the rest of the Animal Kingdom, but we can never create out of sheer nothingness.
The monarchial sense of plurality that you are attributing to the word Elohim did not exist at all when all these books were written, this is a much later Semitic linguistic development as is seen in the Qur'an, where God ALWAYS speaks as "Us and Our and We". But in the Torah, had this been used to stress God's sovereignty, it would have been used in many other passages. Rather this plural, before the first century AD, to never have been used to refer to a singular object or noun.
Interesting. What about the manuscripts in the Dead Sea Scrolls which are BCE. Do they not contain Elohim with reference to the Most High? What do they have where other manuscripts have Elohim?
You misunderstood me. When writing the scriptures, the Jews called these people's deities (even though they were not in any sense for they did not even exist) "elohim", because that is who they knew. They mistook these created objects for Elohim, so they are "their gods". That is the sense in which it is written in.
Its kind of like saying, when referring to the shack of a poor person, this is this man's mansion, even though it is not a mansion in any real sense of the word, just as these "Elohim"s are not any real Elohim's any real sense of the word. So it does no justice to use this as evidence that Elohim is strictly singular, because these deities are singular, you are comparing God with what is not even real.
so all the jews were wrong ? cus none of them ever thought it was 2 or 3 or 4 . thats y they dont believe in Christianity because they think we all believe in 3 and they no better
I don't understand your point? I am saying it does not work to thing that the word ELOHIM itself is singular because it was used about singular foreign gods does not work because they are false. They are not really Elohim at all. They are 'false' versions of God. You can't use the reference to that which is not even real, and is utterly false, as proof that God is singular. Your comparing the false conception of the thing with the real.
Right folks, I'm going to ask that if you post on these videos, make the comment strictly relevant to the subject matter of the video. I.e. this one is about the word ELohim, so please make comments relevant to this word. Todah.
This is the way every born Christian truly worships The Father, because we are so grateful what He has done for us in our lives. Changing us by renewing our minds according to His Word. HalleluYah!!! There is no idolatry in this at all. This is how the Kingdom of God operates. We just need to accept this, and to let go of our limit mindsets to reason with it.
It comes down to this...If you take the KJV Bible at face value then you have NO CHOICE but to believe in the pre-existence of Christ. However, if Satan was able to trick every single translator of the New Testament into perverting the reality of Christ then we have ALL been deceived! I'm not saying Satan isn't capable of that, but I have more faith in God than to believe that idea of such a mass deception. Mainstream DOES NOT follow the NT, but to say that the Bible(NT) is WRONG=hopelessness.
Mass deception is indeed going on in Christianity, BUT it's because they don't follow what the Bible actually says. That is their fault! However, if you contend that the NT is "flawed" in EVERY instance where it talks about the PRE-EXISTENCE of Christ then that is a different story. That is where my faith in God comes in. I don't think He would allow that to happen.
IF the NT is severely "flawed" then it seems like the verses where Christ says to pray to the Father would've been omitted.
There is a reason that I am dealing with the alleged Old Testament proofs for these doctrines. If these doctrines cannot be supported form the Hebrew Scriptures, then the doctrines are invalid. This is because the Messianic writings are WHOLLY based on the older scriptures. Neither the Messiah nor his sent ones brought any new teaching except that which was already given in the Tanakh. All they did was bring out what was already there...
No, I'm saying that the Hebrew Scriptures are the foundation for everything taught in "NT." If people THINK the NT teaches something, then this thing ought to be able to be taught from the Hebrew Scriptures. If not, then you must be misunderstanding the NT. Do you get what I'm saying?
Noone is saying that 'new testament' scriptures are flawed. I'm pretty sure this is what he means, but definately what I think is not that everything NT must be mentioned in the tanakh to be true, however NO scripture can contradict itself. In other words, 'christianity' is false, since it so arrogantly contradicts most scriptures. yehoshua did not come to abolish torah, and if we are going to read Sha'uls writings we must read them knowing that he can't overturn yah's word.
There is a reason that I am dealing with the alleged Old Testament proofs for these doctrines. If these doctrines cannot be supported form the Hebrew Scriptures, then the doctrines are invalid. This is because the Messianic writings are WHOLLY based on the older scriptures. Neither the Messiah nor his sent ones brought any new teaching except that which was already given in the Tanakh. All they did was bring out what was already there...
"Now these [Bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonike, who received the word [preached by Sha'ul] with great eagerness, and searched the Scriptures daily, if these words were so."
In other words, these righteous men and women used the Hebrew Scriptures to corroborate Sha'ul's teachings to see if his words were true. Not vice versa, as is the case in Christianity...
"you, stay in what you have learned and trusted, having known from whom you have learned, and that from a babe you have known the Set-apart Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for deliverance through belief in Messiah יהושע...
.. all Scripture is breathed by Elohim and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting straight, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of Elohim might be fitted, equipped for every good work."
Sha'ul was speaking about the Hebrew scriptures here. He was not talking about a New Testament which wasn't even written or compiled at this time.
Thus, in this critical issue of who is Yahweh, it is vital that we get our concepts from the Hebrew Scriptures first and foremost.
... so I will continue to deal with the alleged 'Old Testament' proofs. Again, if there is no Trinity/ God-man in the Hebrew Scriptures, then there is no Trinity/ God-man, period!
The problem is that you HAVEN'T DISPROVEN the pre-existence of Christ. You have just shown that Elohim CAN mean something other than plural(even though 95% of it's usage in the OT is "GOD")....You have also shown that "US" CAN mean the heavenly hosts. I'm also under the assumption that you are STARTING with your "ZINGER" verses to prove your point. That's the way I would do it. Unless you are going to END with a GRAND FINALE(your best proof-texts last).
I agree ,U will find it ,lots of it in the Psalms and throughout the Tanakh,but remember If you believe in the Messiah at all ,that the NT is valid know also that the OT is called the Old Testament rather then the first Testament,Salvation comes only by Jesus,When u try to face Yahweh u will NOT stand,He said even the Jews will not come into His Sabbath,period! Accept His free gift,and don't u ever take spiritual guidance of muslims,U will recognize them by their fruits!,remember!!
Where do the Hebrew scriptures mention Christ dying then being resurrected and ascending to heaven? Where does it mention the change in the priesthood lineage to Judah(Christ)[Heb 7:11-14]? I could go on and on, but it seems to me that you shouldn't accept Christ at all if you "stick to the Torah". Christ was either a fraud OR He was a fuller revelation of the will of God.
This is clearly a case of taking scripture out of context. It is true what you are saying but not the whole truth. Timothy was a second generation Christian with a fire babtised mother, and had one of the best teachers in Paul. I love the Bible... the text that preceeds this verse is 2Ti 2: 13-14. I got saved just by reading the N.T. I love the whole word of God know. Revelation knowledge form the Holy Spirit is God breathed as well, right up until today. It has to line up with The Word though!
Jesus said continue in My word and the truth will set you free. It is good to use the past as a rudder for the future, but you are staring back and not pressing forward. You seem to be anchored in the O.T. I know this feels safe, but you will never reach your destination. It limits the Holy Spirit to get you to the promised land. Let God take control and stop trying to earn your righteousness. His burden is light and His yoke is easy!!!
I agree the Royal Plural is not a proof per say,even the quranic arabic uses it in the same manner,But it most certainly adds to the rest,If you don't believe in the Divinity of Christ i'm sorry to say but u will die in ur sinn!,Don't go blaspheme the Holy Spirit,cause u may be forgiven in cursing the Father or the Son,but not the Holy Spirit,The Anointed of the Most High is mostly David,but generally all Kings in his line ,Including Sedekia,Saul, Jesus,The King of kings does the anointing!
Really, the unforgivable sin is something that the bible almost entirely seems to be against? That is odd... and btw, you have no idea what blaspheming the holy spirit is.
If anyone were in trouble, it would be trinitarians. Idolatry, worshipping anyone other than yahweh, the father, who is one.
And it's been proven that elohim is not plural, so how does it "add to the rest?"
What Bible are talking about,It must be a Bible without the Pauline Letters or the Gospel of John,How would u explain John 3:16 or 14:6 or Psalm 118:8 If Jesus was but a man we could never be redeemed through Him read matt 28:18 The only hope we non-jews have is Jesus!If you happen to be Jew things are slightly different,but Jesus is now asmuch the Almighty as the Father is,What the Father sanctified He cannot chance,But Jesus did! U tell me what is blaspheming the Holy Spirit!?
I can see that you've found out where a lot of Christians miss it, and that you have found more truth in your new religion. The problem is that it is still a religion and not a personal relationship with God. God draws us near to Him through Jesus His son, graciously giving us His Holy Spirit. That is how the love of God operates. Don't try to fight it... embrace it. Contineously pray for the Holy Spirit. God will give it to you, because you are very close, and He loves you.
John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said unto you" How clear do you want it?!? Why won't you deal with John 8:58. "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. (John 8:43) Please let verse :44 not be for you. This is so vital for salvation!!!
I too await your interpretation of John 8:58....We can tell from the reaction of the Jews that they were upset about the claim of Jesus....Remember this was BEFORE Christ's ascension....while He was yet a "man".
I totally agree. It is time consuming, but on the other hand very valuable. They should publish these discussions, a lot of Christians would benifit from it. I'm willing to go the extra mile with this one. I'll not cave in and quit, because I think it is too important of an issue. I can not help but see satan in this... mixing a lot of truth and leaving out the essential part for salvation. That is how cults and the occult operate as well. Let's keep fighting the good fight of faith!
Why doesn't it say Jehovah created the heavens and the Earth ?? Your video explained nothing.
drewscottwallace35 11 months ago
well done another awesome example using correct use of scripture keep on Achi
snipnflip 3 years ago
They mistook God to be these people's gods that's why they say their "Elohim", that is to say, their false version of our God. But of course these gods do not even exist, so that nothing right can be used to describe them except that they are false. And if you say that Elohim, this plurality word stresses this royalty, why then is it used equally of other "gods", if we follow your logic?
marephrem 3 years ago
I wasn't really trying to establish a point so much as "dis-establishing" a Trinitarian point - that elohim hints at plurality within a "godhead."
I'm saying that Elohim is not exclusively used with regard to the Most High. It is also used for men (like Moshe) and other deities because they are all considered mighty ones in some sense by someone.
But as the article I link to states, only Yahweh is the Mighty one of all Mighty Ones.
Torahrevival 3 years ago
Sure I can agree with that point.
marephrem 3 years ago
@Torahrevival it is not Yahweh but YHWH
pedomohd 10 months ago
(the Sun cannot be without its sunlight, as God cannot be without His Image, that is His Son our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ), "who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person" (Hebrews 1:3).
Thirdly, your saying that Elohim when being used to address the other "gods" of other peoples establishes nothing on your side. For they are not really gods at all, in fact Scripture identifies them as "false" if so, how can they even be mighty or God in any sense?
marephrem 3 years ago
Another thing not mentioned to have been created is "THE IMAGE of God". That is, it was pre-existent to its being put in to man. So God has an Image and a Spirit. Therefore this Image and this Spirit are God. This is Image is none other than the Christ who said: "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father", and whom St. Paul calls "the Image of God" (2 Corinthians 4:4), and also the brightness and radiance
marephrem 3 years ago
Secondly we see things distinct of God, and yet proper to Him (thereby also being God), just as my mind is distinct from me in one sense, but is also me in another sense. And my body is distinct from me, but also proper to me, and therefore me in another sense. So too, when the second verse of Genesis 1 says and the Spirit hovered over the face of the deep (nothing mentioned about the Spirit being created), then know this Spirit is proper to Yahweh, and is indeed also One with Him.
marephrem 3 years ago
My second point is, why this plurality then? What can it be explained by if it does not imply monarchiality at all? (It only appears three times in the Hebrew Bible when reffering to God outside of the word Elohim in pronouns like "Us", our "Our") Surely it would have been used more often or frequently to establish this like the Qur'an does? But it does not, it is used in specific examples.
marephrem 3 years ago
Concerning "Us" - you dismissed the notion that it was referring to the angelic host. But in Isaiah 6:1-8 Yah is surrounded by seraphim. He says (in verse 8) "who shall I (sing.) send and who will go for us." Yah does the sending - not the seraphim, but He says "us" to include the seraphim as being represented also. To me, this very strongly leads me to think that a similar thing is happening in Genesis 1:26 - Yah alone creating but the angelic host also being represented. If that makes sense.
Torahrevival 3 years ago
It makes so sense because then it makes the sentence "Let US MAKE" utterly meaningless. Only One Being can Create and that is, He Who is God. Angels CANNOT create, and neither can they send. There is nothing that explicitly states that God was speaking about the seraphim in that verse either.
marephrem 3 years ago
But indeed it does signify some kind of plurality in God. There is no other reference before second century AD where the plural is every meant singular in Semitic languages, this is only a later linguistical development, as is witnessed in the Qur'an. Secondly Elohim is used to refer to other people's gods. But that does really mean that they are gods! They are false idols, but to these pagans, they mistake them to be Elohim Himself.
marephrem 3 years ago
"That does NOT mean", I meant to say.
marephrem 3 years ago
That is why it is so surprising to see that in the Tanakh, the Jews tried to explain away the verse: "Let Us make man in Our Image, and in Our Likeness." As God speaking to the angels. But surely this is nonsense. Only God has the Attribute of Creating reality from utter nothingness. We as humans with minds (limited in comparison with the Divine Mind), can be creative unlike the rest of the Animal Kingdom, but we can never create out of sheer nothingness.
marephrem 3 years ago
The monarchial sense of plurality that you are attributing to the word Elohim did not exist at all when all these books were written, this is a much later Semitic linguistic development as is seen in the Qur'an, where God ALWAYS speaks as "Us and Our and We". But in the Torah, had this been used to stress God's sovereignty, it would have been used in many other passages. Rather this plural, before the first century AD, to never have been used to refer to a singular object or noun.
marephrem 3 years ago
Interesting. What about the manuscripts in the Dead Sea Scrolls which are BCE. Do they not contain Elohim with reference to the Most High? What do they have where other manuscripts have Elohim?
Torahrevival 3 years ago
You misunderstood me. When writing the scriptures, the Jews called these people's deities (even though they were not in any sense for they did not even exist) "elohim", because that is who they knew. They mistook these created objects for Elohim, so they are "their gods". That is the sense in which it is written in.
marephrem 3 years ago
Its kind of like saying, when referring to the shack of a poor person, this is this man's mansion, even though it is not a mansion in any real sense of the word, just as these "Elohim"s are not any real Elohim's any real sense of the word. So it does no justice to use this as evidence that Elohim is strictly singular, because these deities are singular, you are comparing God with what is not even real.
marephrem 3 years ago
so all the jews were wrong ? cus none of them ever thought it was 2 or 3 or 4 . thats y they dont believe in Christianity because they think we all believe in 3 and they no better
pianokid100 3 years ago
I don't understand your point? I am saying it does not work to thing that the word ELOHIM itself is singular because it was used about singular foreign gods does not work because they are false. They are not really Elohim at all. They are 'false' versions of God. You can't use the reference to that which is not even real, and is utterly false, as proof that God is singular. Your comparing the false conception of the thing with the real.
marephrem 3 years ago
Right folks, I'm going to ask that if you post on these videos, make the comment strictly relevant to the subject matter of the video. I.e. this one is about the word ELohim, so please make comments relevant to this word. Todah.
Torahrevival 3 years ago
This is the way every born Christian truly worships The Father, because we are so grateful what He has done for us in our lives. Changing us by renewing our minds according to His Word. HalleluYah!!! There is no idolatry in this at all. This is how the Kingdom of God operates. We just need to accept this, and to let go of our limit mindsets to reason with it.
Ramohog 3 years ago
It comes down to this...If you take the KJV Bible at face value then you have NO CHOICE but to believe in the pre-existence of Christ. However, if Satan was able to trick every single translator of the New Testament into perverting the reality of Christ then we have ALL been deceived! I'm not saying Satan isn't capable of that, but I have more faith in God than to believe that idea of such a mass deception. Mainstream DOES NOT follow the NT, but to say that the Bible(NT) is WRONG=hopelessness.
ricoman73 3 years ago 3
Mass deception is indeed going on in Christianity, BUT it's because they don't follow what the Bible actually says. That is their fault! However, if you contend that the NT is "flawed" in EVERY instance where it talks about the PRE-EXISTENCE of Christ then that is a different story. That is where my faith in God comes in. I don't think He would allow that to happen.
IF the NT is severely "flawed" then it seems like the verses where Christ says to pray to the Father would've been omitted.
ricoman73 3 years ago 2
Please stop attacking strawmen. I didn't say that the NT is "flawed." Please re-read my comments.
Torahrevival 3 years ago
it sounds like you are saying the NT is "flawed".
There is a reason that I am dealing with the alleged Old Testament proofs for these doctrines. If these doctrines cannot be supported form the Hebrew Scriptures, then the doctrines are invalid. This is because the Messianic writings are WHOLLY based on the older scriptures. Neither the Messiah nor his sent ones brought any new teaching except that which was already given in the Tanakh. All they did was bring out what was already there...
ricoman73 3 years ago
No, I'm saying that the Hebrew Scriptures are the foundation for everything taught in "NT." If people THINK the NT teaches something, then this thing ought to be able to be taught from the Hebrew Scriptures. If not, then you must be misunderstanding the NT. Do you get what I'm saying?
Torahrevival 3 years ago
Noone is saying that 'new testament' scriptures are flawed. I'm pretty sure this is what he means, but definately what I think is not that everything NT must be mentioned in the tanakh to be true, however NO scripture can contradict itself. In other words, 'christianity' is false, since it so arrogantly contradicts most scriptures. yehoshua did not come to abolish torah, and if we are going to read Sha'uls writings we must read them knowing that he can't overturn yah's word.
ipwnnewbs50 3 years ago
There is a reason that I am dealing with the alleged Old Testament proofs for these doctrines. If these doctrines cannot be supported form the Hebrew Scriptures, then the doctrines are invalid. This is because the Messianic writings are WHOLLY based on the older scriptures. Neither the Messiah nor his sent ones brought any new teaching except that which was already given in the Tanakh. All they did was bring out what was already there...
Torahrevival 3 years ago
... The Bereans checked all Sha'ul's teachings by the Tanakh and were commended for doing this:
Act 17:11
"Now these [Bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonike, who received the word [preached by Sha'ul] with great eagerness, and searched the Scriptures daily, if these words were so."
In other words, these righteous men and women used the Hebrew Scriptures to corroborate Sha'ul's teachings to see if his words were true. Not vice versa, as is the case in Christianity...
Torahrevival 3 years ago
...Furthermore, Sha'ul very clearly taught the primacy of the Hebrew Scriptures when he wrote to TImothy:
2 Ti 3:14
"you, stay in what you have learned and trusted, having known from whom you have learned, and that from a babe you have known the Set-apart Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for deliverance through belief in Messiah יהושע...
Torahrevival 3 years ago
.. all Scripture is breathed by Elohim and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting straight, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of Elohim might be fitted, equipped for every good work."
Sha'ul was speaking about the Hebrew scriptures here. He was not talking about a New Testament which wasn't even written or compiled at this time.
Thus, in this critical issue of who is Yahweh, it is vital that we get our concepts from the Hebrew Scriptures first and foremost.
Torahrevival 3 years ago
... so I will continue to deal with the alleged 'Old Testament' proofs. Again, if there is no Trinity/ God-man in the Hebrew Scriptures, then there is no Trinity/ God-man, period!
Torahrevival 3 years ago
The problem is that you HAVEN'T DISPROVEN the pre-existence of Christ. You have just shown that Elohim CAN mean something other than plural(even though 95% of it's usage in the OT is "GOD")....You have also shown that "US" CAN mean the heavenly hosts. I'm also under the assumption that you are STARTING with your "ZINGER" verses to prove your point. That's the way I would do it. Unless you are going to END with a GRAND FINALE(your best proof-texts last).
I do appreciate your viewpoint.
ricoman73 3 years ago 2
I agree ,U will find it ,lots of it in the Psalms and throughout the Tanakh,but remember If you believe in the Messiah at all ,that the NT is valid know also that the OT is called the Old Testament rather then the first Testament,Salvation comes only by Jesus,When u try to face Yahweh u will NOT stand,He said even the Jews will not come into His Sabbath,period! Accept His free gift,and don't u ever take spiritual guidance of muslims,U will recognize them by their fruits!,remember!!
RoelGeurtsen 3 years ago
Where do the Hebrew scriptures mention Christ dying then being resurrected and ascending to heaven? Where does it mention the change in the priesthood lineage to Judah(Christ)[Heb 7:11-14]? I could go on and on, but it seems to me that you shouldn't accept Christ at all if you "stick to the Torah". Christ was either a fraud OR He was a fuller revelation of the will of God.
ricoman73 3 years ago
This is clearly a case of taking scripture out of context. It is true what you are saying but not the whole truth. Timothy was a second generation Christian with a fire babtised mother, and had one of the best teachers in Paul. I love the Bible... the text that preceeds this verse is 2Ti 2: 13-14. I got saved just by reading the N.T. I love the whole word of God know. Revelation knowledge form the Holy Spirit is God breathed as well, right up until today. It has to line up with The Word though!
Ramohog 3 years ago
Jesus said continue in My word and the truth will set you free. It is good to use the past as a rudder for the future, but you are staring back and not pressing forward. You seem to be anchored in the O.T. I know this feels safe, but you will never reach your destination. It limits the Holy Spirit to get you to the promised land. Let God take control and stop trying to earn your righteousness. His burden is light and His yoke is easy!!!
Ramohog 3 years ago
I agree the Royal Plural is not a proof per say,even the quranic arabic uses it in the same manner,But it most certainly adds to the rest,If you don't believe in the Divinity of Christ i'm sorry to say but u will die in ur sinn!,Don't go blaspheme the Holy Spirit,cause u may be forgiven in cursing the Father or the Son,but not the Holy Spirit,The Anointed of the Most High is mostly David,but generally all Kings in his line ,Including Sedekia,Saul, Jesus,The King of kings does the anointing!
RoelGeurtsen 3 years ago
Really, the unforgivable sin is something that the bible almost entirely seems to be against? That is odd... and btw, you have no idea what blaspheming the holy spirit is.
If anyone were in trouble, it would be trinitarians. Idolatry, worshipping anyone other than yahweh, the father, who is one.
And it's been proven that elohim is not plural, so how does it "add to the rest?"
ipwnnewbs50 3 years ago
What Bible are talking about,It must be a Bible without the Pauline Letters or the Gospel of John,How would u explain John 3:16 or 14:6 or Psalm 118:8 If Jesus was but a man we could never be redeemed through Him read matt 28:18 The only hope we non-jews have is Jesus!If you happen to be Jew things are slightly different,but Jesus is now asmuch the Almighty as the Father is,What the Father sanctified He cannot chance,But Jesus did! U tell me what is blaspheming the Holy Spirit!?
RoelGeurtsen 3 years ago
I can see that you've found out where a lot of Christians miss it, and that you have found more truth in your new religion. The problem is that it is still a religion and not a personal relationship with God. God draws us near to Him through Jesus His son, graciously giving us His Holy Spirit. That is how the love of God operates. Don't try to fight it... embrace it. Contineously pray for the Holy Spirit. God will give it to you, because you are very close, and He loves you.
Ramohog 3 years ago
John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said unto you" How clear do you want it?!? Why won't you deal with John 8:58. "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. (John 8:43) Please let verse :44 not be for you. This is so vital for salvation!!!
Ramohog 3 years ago
I too await your interpretation of John 8:58....We can tell from the reaction of the Jews that they were upset about the claim of Jesus....Remember this was BEFORE Christ's ascension....while He was yet a "man".
ricoman73 3 years ago 2
Or how about 1Cor 10:1-4?
If we can just get to the "nitty gritty" it would save a lot of time. LOL
ricoman73 3 years ago
I totally agree. It is time consuming, but on the other hand very valuable. They should publish these discussions, a lot of Christians would benifit from it. I'm willing to go the extra mile with this one. I'll not cave in and quit, because I think it is too important of an issue. I can not help but see satan in this... mixing a lot of truth and leaving out the essential part for salvation. That is how cults and the occult operate as well. Let's keep fighting the good fight of faith!
Ramohog 3 years ago