How in the world could this man say Jesus was a mere man? Jesus is the Son of the living God, who allowed Himself to be stripped of His deity and became a man, in order to rectify the blunder of the first man. Phil 2:5-11 talks about the deity of Christ.
@Paulsministry Frate Paul eu sunt Roman si locuiesc in Canada,te-am auzit prima data pe Yuotube cand ai vorbit de (Human Jesus) si am ajuns la adevarata concluzie ca ai dreptate si m-ai adus si pe mine la cunostinta adevarului si stiu cine este Domnul Isus God bless you sunt foarte fericit ca am cunosc adevarul prin Tine si acum vreau sa anvat si pe alti adevarul evangheliei D-lui Isus si cine este EL GBU.
@dandom01 Dear brother, sorry for my late reply. I'm so glad I was able to help you understand who the Lord Jesus really is. Thank-you for your encouragement & may God richly bless you. Pray for the work here in Romania & across the world. Brother Paul.
Jesus Christ said before Abraham was I AM (GOD) and He said it alot, just like Moses at the burning bush ask God what should he call him to the Hebrews and God said I AM(God) sent you. In Gen. 1:26and 27 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after Our likeness: so you see man has body, soul,and spirit and God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit so a child can understand it.
All over, the old & the new testament. This truth is only revealed to those who believe God is One person, but to those who believe God is 3 persons then they will read right front of their eyes yet they can not believe. As Jesus said in his time to the religious Jews who rejected him, they see yet they can not see, they hear yet they can not hear. But I turst there will be those who hear & will see & they will come out from Babylonian confusion. Praise the Father & the Son.
@shibakim I appriecate your opinion and it is valued, but you have not answered my challange. Can you show me from the bible that God is 1 Person. I have yet for any unitarian to meet this challenge.
@shibakim Your getting off the subject. I have heard this unitarian argument before: ""Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear..." Is 1:14. They redefine the word SOUL. Let's get back to the question I first asked. " Can you show me from the bible that God is 1 Person." Answer the question directly. What leads you to believe from scripture that God is only 1 Person?
Whole scripture teach me that God is One person, & the Son of God, Jesus taught me that too. And the Holy Sprit of Father give me witness that He is One person. Read 1 Cor.11, the head of Christ is God, & the head of man is Christ. 1st, NO EQUALITY as 3-nity teaches, the head of Christ is God. Do u want 2 say here God is 3? I know why Paul says head of Christ instead head of Jesus. 2nd, here HS is not mentioned. Do u know why? Or u may not interested to know the truth.
@shibakim Believe me when I say, If you have the truth. I want to be with you till the very end. But my study of the bible contradicts your teachings. You saythat "the Holy Sprit of Father give me witness that He is One person" Jim Jones claimed that he recieved direct revelation from God? Look what it got almost 1000 people. Since I hold to the bible as my final authority and will believe it no matter what, can you chow me from the bible that God is 1 Person? Why are you running from this?
Ofcourse I believe what I believe based on the Scriptures. I've had "wonderful (?)" tongue experience but I forsook that base on the Scriptures. Now what can I say more to u? In Mr 12:29 Jesus said 'Hear o Israel, the Lord OUR GOD is ONE LORD.' Did u hear that? Jesus Himself said 'OUR GOD', NOT 'YOUR GOD'.
Further we read, v.32 'Master, thou hast said the TRUTH: FOR THERE IS ONE GOD; and there is none other but HE.' Can't u see it?
@TheTrinityDelusion I do object to ANYONE saying God is one person. All you did was read my statement of true and ignored everything else. Monotheism and unitarianism are not one and the same thing. I have issued this challenge to unitarians time & time again. Please show me where monotheism equals unitarianism. Sow me where the bible teaches that 1 Monotheism is the belief that God is 1 person. Thus far all have failed.
Paul, for example, indicates God is one person. "For us there is one God: the Father." This statement identifies the one God as one person since the Father is one person. If you really understood your doctrine you would understand that it necessarily expresses the following:
God is one person (i.e. God is the Father)
& God is 2 persons, or
& God is 3 persons
Jesus' God was one person and he himself indicates the one God of the Deut 6:4 Shema is one person.
@TheTrinityDelusion It also goes on to say that there is only 1 Lord, Jesus Christ. By your Logic the Father is not Lord because it says Jesus is the one Lord? Come on, give me something hard.,
How predictable. Unfortunately for you, that is NOT my logic. Oops.
Are you denying that Paul indicated God is one person at 1 Corinthians 8:6? Yes or No.
And you still have to answer the six questions I posted.
And then we will see if you can explain also why it is that Trinitarians insist on one hand that a "HE" is one person but hypocritically deny it on the other.
@TheTrinityDelusion No, Sir you have asked enough questions. My turn. Cany you please show me that monotheism is unitarianism. You;re running away from the truth.
Yeah that's what I thought. You avoid such things and try to project your own reality upon others.
Jesus taught that Jewish monotheism means God is one person. Perhaps you were too busy looking at the Trinitarian idol that you missed that one friend.
@TheTrinityDelusion Really? Where did Jesus teach "Jewish monotheism". Judaism is not the foundation of our faith. Christ and the apostles are. Jesus taught the trinty. (John 15:26)
Right here for one: Mark 12:28-34 where Jesus and the scribe whole-heartedly agree that the ONE in the statement "the Lord our God the Lord is ONE" is one "HE." Who do ya suppose that one "HE" would be?
It shouldn't be surprising to the reasonable and honest mind that Jesus' one and only God was one person, his Father alone, the same one person God as the God of the Israelites and that these two Jews affirm here what monotheism means to them.
@TheTrinityDelusion Who do ya suppose that one "HE" would be? Is the word He in the text? You're inserting that into the text to make it fit into your doctrine. The Father is fully God, The Son is fully God, The Holy Ghost is fully God, Yet there are not 3 gods But 1 God. I sleep well because I know that I am honestly finding this truth in the bible of God's triunity. You will not believe in the trinity because you don'r want to believe it.
Yes it is in the text in the text. Apparently, you don't understand what is going on here. The word autou is variously translated as HE or HIM depending on the translator. "there is no other but HE/HIM." Unless of course you would like to refer to one God as an IT. You might also want to read Deut 4:35.
No other but HE/HIM.
Shall I now conclude from your statement above that this means it fits my doctrine and not yours?
@TheTrinityDelusion First off Jesus was quoting Deut 6:4-5. The term HE or Himself is not in there. So once again, you were being deceptive. But to answer your question (Since you refuse to answer mine) on Deut 4:35 is this speaking of God's nature or was He actually alone in person? I recall our Lord saying "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." Apparently, it is you who doesn't understand what is going on here.
Are you trying to be intentionally obtuse or do you not understand what is going on? Nobody was saying the word HE/HIM was in Deut 6:4-5. The POINT is that Jesus and the Jew, in Mark 12, identify the ONE in Deut 6:4 as a HE\HIM by agreeing "there is no other but HE/HIM", an obvious allusion to Deut 4:35. Are you able to understand that they were identifying the ONE of Deut 6:4, not as one divine nature (one WHAT), but as one HE/HIM (one who)?
@TheTrinityDelusion You were saying the word HE was in Deut 6:4. Please scroll up and look for yourself. You're being dishonest. You ask "Are you able to understand that they were identifying the ONE of Deut 6:4"? Yes, MONOTHEISM. That there is only one God. Trintarianism already affirms this. There is only one God by Nature. (Gal 4:8) But you have yet to show MONOTHEISM is UNITARIANISM. Or are you ASSUMING that HE/HIMSELF implies God is one person? Please be careful before you answer.
@October31st1517 Um no, read it again. I said: they described the ONE mentioned in Deut 6:4 as one HE. And they do when the scribe says, "there is no other but He." And I clarified this even further for you in the next post by quoting the statement in question, "there is no other but HE" and citing Deut 4:35. In Mark 12, Jesus and the scribe describe how THEY understand monotheism - ONE HE and NO OTHER but this one HE. Who would that one HE be?
Of course they do. The very purpose of singular personal pronouns is to denote one person. That is the purpose of these words. Trinitarians claim that singular personal pronouns mean the HS is one person distinct from the Father and the Son. How is it then not hypocrisy to then deny these same words mean God is one person?
Ask yourself seriously, "Why do we Trinitarians think that the Father is one person"?
@TheTrinityDelusion "Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens." (Gen 19:24) What a minute. There are 2 YHWH's being spoken of here. Then in the very next verse it says HE overthrew the cities? Will you now accept the FACT the YHWH Almighty That He is more than one person? In fact when the 3 vistors visit Abraham in Gen 18 does not he call these 3 visitors my Lord? (Singular)
Not uncommon to call angels "men" in the Scriptures but never God. See 18:2 & 19:1-2.
The Angels: "WE are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before YHWH that YHWH has sent US to destroy it." Compare Lot in the next verse, "YHWH will destroy the city." 19:13-14.
Angels are theophanies of YHWH including the angel at 18:22.
When Israel won battles the Bible also says God did it.
In anticipation of anyone who ties to compare this with Jesus praying that the disciples would be ONE with God in purpose, take a look at the context. The Jews tried to kill him after he said he was one with the Father. Every time they attempted to stone him, it was for blasphemy. It is not blasphemous to simply say you are ONE in will and purpose with God.
Your claim is totally based on the notion they would only stone him if he was claiming to be God. They stoned Stephen too. Why? To be stoned for blasphemy didn't necessarily mean anyone was claiming to be God. The Jews never ever thought Jesus was claiming to be God. That isn't what they charged him with is it? They charged him with claiming to be their God's SON. Read Matt 27:43 to see clearly that they never had any notion that Jesus was claiming to be their one God.
And your claim is totally based on the notion that the "Son of God" cannot be God himself as well. Read John 5:18 and see why the Jews sought to kill Jesus and what the Jews understood when Jesus called God his Father.
As for Stephen, no one said that the Jews stoned Stephen for the same reasons that they stoned Jesus. The Jews made it clear to Jesus that they were stoning him for blasphemy.
@BauerPower247 "And your claim is totally based on the notion that the "Son of God" cannot be God himself as well."
No it isn't. My claim is based on the fact that I don't imagine things into the text. You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to be their God. Indeed, the evidence we have is contrary to your claim.
Yes, John 5:18 and what did the Jews finally charge him with? Claiming to be God's son. That is what John 5:18 is about.
Concerning John 10:33, u should not stop only in this verse & try to justify ur 3-nity doctrinal err. Read continue down through v.36. What did Jesus said? He said, "...because I said, I am the Son of God?" Further v.35, 36, read carefully. Right front of ur eyes yet can't u see?
Read ur own comments how u r using John 10:33. Jesus never claimed he as God. That was Jews accusation against Jesus. Jesus corrected them by saying, v.34, 35, 36. Especially v.36, Jesus said, 'u accuse me as blasphemer because I said I am the Son of God?' Jesus didn't say 'u accuse me as blasphemer because I said I am God?'
No one is denying the Jesus is the Son of God. That is not the issue. John 5:18 presents the backdrop for which the Jews wanted to kill Jesus in the first place. When you take a look at the two comments Jesus made just before they tried to kill him (John 8:58 - "I Am," as God was called in the OT; and John 10:30-The Father and I are one") this is consistent with the Jews reason for seeking to kill Jesus. continued...
Issue here for me is Jesus of course as the son, born of God's Holy Spirit without an earthly father, surely he bore God's nature & he is equal as His Father in that sense (as to nature he received by His Father) but not as 2nd person in 3 persons of God. And if I say for ex., I & brother John, we r one, do u understand that as though I'm saying I m John & John is me?
If you think about it - The Jews sought more to kill Jesus because he was calling God his own Father making himself equal with God, yet, they are going to say to Jesus that he is blaspheming because he a mere man makes himself 'a god.' Does John 5:18 say that Jesus was making himself equal with 'a god?"
In both instances they tried to kill him, was it not obvious that the Jews understood Jesus claim to deity. Why else would Jesus' claim to be the 'Son of God' upset the Jews?
Yes, Jesus called God his own Father but he never said he's God himself. Further as u should know Jews were already upset at Jesus coz He didn't keep the Sabbath (in their legalistic & religious mind).
"Jesus never claimed he as God. That was Jews accusation against Jesus. Jesus corrected them..."
Before you state that Jesus was "correcting" the Jews, you have to demonstrate that the Jews actually did misunderstand Jesus. You are assuming that the Jews misunderstood Jesus based on your own understanding of Jesus' claims. You cannot demonstrate this proposition from scripture. There is no reason to believe the legalistic and scripturally educated Jews misunderstood Jesus.
U show me 1 place in the Bible where Jesus out of his own mouth said he is God. As u & all trinitarians claim what Jesus did not claim so the Jews. Watch & listen some of the videos made by others: Anthony Buzzard, Trinity delusion, howdytheresir. They made some very good videos. I might try to send u a couple of them.
@shibakim , you are deceived friend. Jesus is the eternal Son of God and is from everlasting(Micah 5:2, Isaiah 9:6 and Daniel 7:13,14). He absolutely claimed equality with the Father and is the great"I AM"(John 8:58, Isaiah 43:10 and is the First and Last(Isaiah 44:6, Rev 1:17,18) Read Jesus's own words in John 17:5 or Mark14:62, John 8:24-58. "Unless you believe that "I AM" you will die in your sins". The Jews sought to stone Him because He claimed equality with God.
@shibakim , another reason they sought to stone Him was that He broke the Sabbath by healing. He said"My Father never stops working so why should I?" The Jews knew He was making Himself equal with God. Besides, Jesus said and did things that no mere man or prophet could have said or done. When Thomas said"my Lord and my God", Jesus never rebuked him or anyone when they worshipped Him.
@34craigjan Because it was/is given by His Father for us 2 worship His Son. If u know when Peter confessed that Jesus as THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD, Jesus praised Peter saying THAT knowledge is given by His Father from Heaven.
@34craigjan Yes, Jesus the Son of God is 'my Lord and my God' to me and for me also. But that does not mean Jesus Christ is God Almighty. It's so plain & simple, a childe like faith, Almighty God, the God of Abraham, God of Jacob, God of Issac begot a son & his name is Jesus. Jesus Christ is THE UNIC SON OF GOD, Jesus is THE ONLY PERSON on earth born without a earthly father because as u know God begot him through His own spirit (Holy Spirit).
@shibakim I really implore you to read through Colossians 1 & 2, Hebrews 1 and Philippians 2. There is an equality shared within the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). They each play a role in the redemption of mankind. That's the beauty of the universal gospel message because it applies to all. Unfortunately, most will not subject themselves to the love of God and be cast down and condemned. People need to worship the Jesus of the bible and not the fake Jesus of other religions.
@34craigjan There are no such things as what u wrote to me find in the Bible rather find in the Catholic doctrine. U must come out of fallen apostated Christian system & her teachings & doctrines. One of them, the doctrine of trinity.
@shibakim the catholic church is corrupt and is a perversion of the truth. You follow that doctrine it'll lead you to destruction. Why would you think the man made teachings of the catholic church override the bible? YOU are deceived if you abide in these fables. Read through 2 Tim 4. Paul tells us that people will be led astray and be deceived by man made myths, heaping up for themselves teachers having itching ears that preach not the truth. Wake up!
@34craigjan That's what I was & am & will say continualy 2 u & others who r drunken of the wine of Catholic's & fallen apostated Christianity's doctrines, WAKE UP & COME OUT OF HER BEFORE GOD'S PLAGUES WILL FALL ON YOU. (Rev.18:4) R u so blinde u can not see? All these so called christian churches being united & gathered under Catholic? First study urself the doc. of trinity real good 2 know what u are really believing. If u really love Jesus of the Bible then u will be wake up by God's mercy.
Oh wait. I forgot that you believe that the Jews understood Jesus was claiming to be only 'a god.' I guess this verse won't be considered proof for you at all.
But you are failing to see the implications of John 5:18. Refer back to the Old testament. "To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One (Isaiah 40:25). - Who is the Holy One? The Jews who were strict monotheists knew that God had no equal.
@October31st1517 God said let us make man in our image. Man is made after God's own image; he is not a 3 headed monster like the trinitarian God is. Man has spirit, soul & body- a copy after God. & also the H. S. is God's own spirit (see Ephesians 4:30), just like man- man has his own spirit. The "us" in Genesis refers to the angelic beings who are/were in the presence of God. They are not like the animals whom God had just created, but they are also in the image of God. Quit simple.
@shibakim "The "us" in Genesis refers to the angelic beings..." Can you sjow me where in the bible that angels were created in the image of God. As far as I can tell, only humans were created in God's image?
@October31st1517 U r terribly wrong once again. Why don't u study Bible yourself? Instead me tell you what & where & how, why don't you look up every place in the Bible where angel or angels are quoted, look up & study yourself then answer will be clear.
@October31st1517 Dear sir, I will jumb in here. Shibakim does not have to prove anything. The burden of proof is on U. That is because U trinitarians have perverted the meaning of what a person is by your monster three headed God. Common sense tells us that a person is one being not three. If that is not good enough for U then that proves that U are drunken with the wine of Babylon. Which means that there is a spirit in you that makes that you cannot or you will not use your rational mind.
@Paulsministry "Common sense tells us that a person is one being not three." Sorry, but common sense is not my final authority. Scripture is. Scripture defines what is person & being. A rock has being. If you don't believe that let me throw one at your heretical head and you will believe it has being. Jesus, God in human flesh (Col 2:9) told us this truth about the trinity.John 15:26) as did the apostle John. (Rev 1:4) So the reason I believe in the trinity is because our savior taught us this.
I laughed at u 'throwing a stone to "heretical head".' My oh my, I pray my Lord Jesus bless u with genuine repentance. Just remember, this dear brotr's head is Christ & true Christians rejoice when we receive the reproch for the name of our Lord Jesus sake. Great is our reward in heaven said my Jesus. U see, I & all who u consider as heretics, believe Jesus as the Son of God. Now show me where in the Bible teaches u that such a belief is heretic? Lord open Oct.31st1517's eyes
How in the world could this man say Jesus was a mere man? Jesus is the Son of the living God, who allowed Himself to be stripped of His deity and became a man, in order to rectify the blunder of the first man. Phil 2:5-11 talks about the deity of Christ.
73geneva 1 month ago
@Paulsministry Frate Paul eu sunt Roman si locuiesc in Canada,te-am auzit prima data pe Yuotube cand ai vorbit de (Human Jesus) si am ajuns la adevarata concluzie ca ai dreptate si m-ai adus si pe mine la cunostinta adevarului si stiu cine este Domnul Isus God bless you sunt foarte fericit ca am cunosc adevarul prin Tine si acum vreau sa anvat si pe alti adevarul evangheliei D-lui Isus si cine este EL GBU.
dandom01 3 months ago
@dandom01 Dear brother, sorry for my late reply. I'm so glad I was able to help you understand who the Lord Jesus really is. Thank-you for your encouragement & may God richly bless you. Pray for the work here in Romania & across the world. Brother Paul.
Paulsministry 2 months ago
Jesus Christ said before Abraham was I AM (GOD) and He said it alot, just like Moses at the burning bush ask God what should he call him to the Hebrews and God said I AM(God) sent you. In Gen. 1:26and 27 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after Our likeness: so you see man has body, soul,and spirit and God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit so a child can understand it.
s25598 6 months ago
@s25598 You are wrong, wrong, wrong. God has a spirit, God has a soul, God has a body. That's why we have spirit, soul & body after God's image.
shibakim 4 months ago
@October31st1517
Which one of these statements if false, if any?
1. The one person, the Father, is the only true God.
2. The one person, Jesus, is the only true God.
3 The one person, the Holy Spirit is the only true God.
4. The two persons, the Father and the Son, are the only true God.
5. The three persons, the Father and the Son and the HS, are the only true God.
6. The Triune God is the only true God.
Have fun with that.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion 1. True, 2. True, 3. True, 4. True, 5. True, 6. True What's your point. You have read the athenasian creed have you not?
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Now ask yourself these questions stated like this and see if you can learn anything:
True or False
1. The only true God is one person: the Father.
2. The only true God is one person: Jesus.
3 The only true God is one person: the Holy Spirit.
4. The only true God is two persons: the Father and the Son
5. The only true God is three persons: the Father and Son and Holy Spirit.
6. The only true God is the Triune God.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
Bro. Paul, the great God, our Father & the Lord Jesus is with you. Peace be unto you in the name of the Son of God. Amen.
shibakim 1 year ago
Amen. Many blessings from God, our Father & His Son & our brother the Lord Jesus Christ.
shibakim 1 year ago
Question: Can you show me where in the bible Monotheism is Unitarianism? In other words, where does the bible teach that 1 God is 1 Person?
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
All over, the old & the new testament. This truth is only revealed to those who believe God is One person, but to those who believe God is 3 persons then they will read right front of their eyes yet they can not believe. As Jesus said in his time to the religious Jews who rejected him, they see yet they can not see, they hear yet they can not hear. But I turst there will be those who hear & will see & they will come out from Babylonian confusion. Praise the Father & the Son.
shibakim 1 year ago
@shibakim I appriecate your opinion and it is valued, but you have not answered my challange. Can you show me from the bible that God is 1 Person. I have yet for any unitarian to meet this challenge.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Before I answer that question I would like to ask u a question, and that is HOW MANY SOULS GOD HAS?
shibakim 1 year ago
@shibakim Your getting off the subject. I have heard this unitarian argument before: ""Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear..." Is 1:14. They redefine the word SOUL. Let's get back to the question I first asked. " Can you show me from the bible that God is 1 Person." Answer the question directly. What leads you to believe from scripture that God is only 1 Person?
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Whole scripture teach me that God is One person, & the Son of God, Jesus taught me that too. And the Holy Sprit of Father give me witness that He is One person. Read 1 Cor.11, the head of Christ is God, & the head of man is Christ. 1st, NO EQUALITY as 3-nity teaches, the head of Christ is God. Do u want 2 say here God is 3? I know why Paul says head of Christ instead head of Jesus. 2nd, here HS is not mentioned. Do u know why? Or u may not interested to know the truth.
shibakim 1 year ago
@shibakim Believe me when I say, If you have the truth. I want to be with you till the very end. But my study of the bible contradicts your teachings. You saythat "the Holy Sprit of Father give me witness that He is One person" Jim Jones claimed that he recieved direct revelation from God? Look what it got almost 1000 people. Since I hold to the bible as my final authority and will believe it no matter what, can you chow me from the bible that God is 1 Person? Why are you running from this?
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Ofcourse I believe what I believe based on the Scriptures. I've had "wonderful (?)" tongue experience but I forsook that base on the Scriptures. Now what can I say more to u? In Mr 12:29 Jesus said 'Hear o Israel, the Lord OUR GOD is ONE LORD.' Did u hear that? Jesus Himself said 'OUR GOD', NOT 'YOUR GOD'.
Further we read, v.32 'Master, thou hast said the TRUTH: FOR THERE IS ONE GOD; and there is none other but HE.' Can't u see it?
v.34 U r NOT FAR from the kingdom of God
shibakim 1 year ago
@October31st1517
True or False. The one true God can rightly be identified as a person.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion True. But can also be identified as 3 persons since they all share the same divine nature.
You should know this, you claim to be a former trinitarian.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
So now you should have no objection to anyone saying God is one person.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion I do object to ANYONE saying God is one person. All you did was read my statement of true and ignored everything else. Monotheism and unitarianism are not one and the same thing. I have issued this challenge to unitarians time & time again. Please show me where monotheism equals unitarianism. Sow me where the bible teaches that 1 Monotheism is the belief that God is 1 person. Thus far all have failed.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Paul, for example, indicates God is one person. "For us there is one God: the Father." This statement identifies the one God as one person since the Father is one person. If you really understood your doctrine you would understand that it necessarily expresses the following:
God is one person (i.e. God is the Father)
& God is 2 persons, or
& God is 3 persons
Jesus' God was one person and he himself indicates the one God of the Deut 6:4 Shema is one person.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
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@October31st1517
Which one of these statements if false, if any?
1. The one person, the Father, is the only true God.
2. The one person, Jesus, is the only true God.
3. The one person, the Holy Spirit, is the only true God.
4. The two persons, the Father and the Son, are the only true God.
5. The three persons, the Father and Son and Holy Spirit, are the only true God
6. The Triune God is the only true God.
Have fun with that.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion It also goes on to say that there is only 1 Lord, Jesus Christ. By your Logic the Father is not Lord because it says Jesus is the one Lord? Come on, give me something hard.,
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
How predictable. Unfortunately for you, that is NOT my logic. Oops.
Are you denying that Paul indicated God is one person at 1 Corinthians 8:6? Yes or No.
And you still have to answer the six questions I posted.
And then we will see if you can explain also why it is that Trinitarians insist on one hand that a "HE" is one person but hypocritically deny it on the other.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion No, Sir you have asked enough questions. My turn. Cany you please show me that monotheism is unitarianism. You;re running away from the truth.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Yeah that's what I thought. You avoid such things and try to project your own reality upon others.
Jesus taught that Jewish monotheism means God is one person. Perhaps you were too busy looking at the Trinitarian idol that you missed that one friend.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion Really? Where did Jesus teach "Jewish monotheism". Judaism is not the foundation of our faith. Christ and the apostles are. Jesus taught the trinty. (John 15:26)
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Right here for one: Mark 12:28-34 where Jesus and the scribe whole-heartedly agree that the ONE in the statement "the Lord our God the Lord is ONE" is one "HE." Who do ya suppose that one "HE" would be?
It shouldn't be surprising to the reasonable and honest mind that Jesus' one and only God was one person, his Father alone, the same one person God as the God of the Israelites and that these two Jews affirm here what monotheism means to them.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion Who do ya suppose that one "HE" would be? Is the word He in the text? You're inserting that into the text to make it fit into your doctrine. The Father is fully God, The Son is fully God, The Holy Ghost is fully God, Yet there are not 3 gods But 1 God. I sleep well because I know that I am honestly finding this truth in the bible of God's triunity. You will not believe in the trinity because you don'r want to believe it.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Yes it is in the text in the text. Apparently, you don't understand what is going on here. The word autou is variously translated as HE or HIM depending on the translator. "there is no other but HE/HIM." Unless of course you would like to refer to one God as an IT. You might also want to read Deut 4:35.
No other but HE/HIM.
Shall I now conclude from your statement above that this means it fits my doctrine and not yours?
Or shall I wait for a new contrivance?
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion First off Jesus was quoting Deut 6:4-5. The term HE or Himself is not in there. So once again, you were being deceptive. But to answer your question (Since you refuse to answer mine) on Deut 4:35 is this speaking of God's nature or was He actually alone in person? I recall our Lord saying "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." Apparently, it is you who doesn't understand what is going on here.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Are you trying to be intentionally obtuse or do you not understand what is going on? Nobody was saying the word HE/HIM was in Deut 6:4-5. The POINT is that Jesus and the Jew, in Mark 12, identify the ONE in Deut 6:4 as a HE\HIM by agreeing "there is no other but HE/HIM", an obvious allusion to Deut 4:35. Are you able to understand that they were identifying the ONE of Deut 6:4, not as one divine nature (one WHAT), but as one HE/HIM (one who)?
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion You were saying the word HE was in Deut 6:4. Please scroll up and look for yourself. You're being dishonest. You ask "Are you able to understand that they were identifying the ONE of Deut 6:4"? Yes, MONOTHEISM. That there is only one God. Trintarianism already affirms this. There is only one God by Nature. (Gal 4:8) But you have yet to show MONOTHEISM is UNITARIANISM. Or are you ASSUMING that HE/HIMSELF implies God is one person? Please be careful before you answer.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517 Um no, read it again. I said: they described the ONE mentioned in Deut 6:4 as one HE. And they do when the scribe says, "there is no other but He." And I clarified this even further for you in the next post by quoting the statement in question, "there is no other but HE" and citing Deut 4:35. In Mark 12, Jesus and the scribe describe how THEY understand monotheism - ONE HE and NO OTHER but this one HE. Who would that one HE be?
Why are you having such difficulty here?
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion Do terms like HE/HIMSELF mean that God is one person? Yes or no?
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Of course they do. The very purpose of singular personal pronouns is to denote one person. That is the purpose of these words. Trinitarians claim that singular personal pronouns mean the HS is one person distinct from the Father and the Son. How is it then not hypocrisy to then deny these same words mean God is one person?
Ask yourself seriously, "Why do we Trinitarians think that the Father is one person"?
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion "Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from YHWH out of the heavens." (Gen 19:24) What a minute. There are 2 YHWH's being spoken of here. Then in the very next verse it says HE overthrew the cities? Will you now accept the FACT the YHWH Almighty That He is more than one person? In fact when the 3 vistors visit Abraham in Gen 18 does not he call these 3 visitors my Lord? (Singular)
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Change of subject now? And eisegesis no less.
Not uncommon to call angels "men" in the Scriptures but never God. See 18:2 & 19:1-2.
The Angels: "WE are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before YHWH that YHWH has sent US to destroy it." Compare Lot in the next verse, "YHWH will destroy the city." 19:13-14.
Angels are theophanies of YHWH including the angel at 18:22.
When Israel won battles the Bible also says God did it.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@October31st1517
Here are more questions for you to think about & perhaps you will begin to see how Trins play word games on themselves
What causes you to think the Father is a person?
What causes you to think the Son is a person?
What causes you to think the HS is a person?
Do any of those reasons apply to the one God?
What causes you to think the Father is not a being?
... or that the Son is not a being?
If the Son is not a being, may we conclude he is not a human being?
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion
Jesus said...
Mark 12:29 - The Lord our God, the Lord is ONE
John 10:30 - The Father and I are ONE.
In anticipation of anyone who ties to compare this with Jesus praying that the disciples would be ONE with God in purpose, take a look at the context. The Jews tried to kill him after he said he was one with the Father. Every time they attempted to stone him, it was for blasphemy. It is not blasphemous to simply say you are ONE in will and purpose with God.
BauerPower247 1 year ago
@BauerPower247
Your claim is totally based on the notion they would only stone him if he was claiming to be God. They stoned Stephen too. Why? To be stoned for blasphemy didn't necessarily mean anyone was claiming to be God. The Jews never ever thought Jesus was claiming to be God. That isn't what they charged him with is it? They charged him with claiming to be their God's SON. Read Matt 27:43 to see clearly that they never had any notion that Jesus was claiming to be their one God.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion
And your claim is totally based on the notion that the "Son of God" cannot be God himself as well. Read John 5:18 and see why the Jews sought to kill Jesus and what the Jews understood when Jesus called God his Father.
As for Stephen, no one said that the Jews stoned Stephen for the same reasons that they stoned Jesus. The Jews made it clear to Jesus that they were stoning him for blasphemy.
BauerPower247 1 year ago
@BauerPower247 "And your claim is totally based on the notion that the "Son of God" cannot be God himself as well."
No it isn't. My claim is based on the fact that I don't imagine things into the text. You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to be their God. Indeed, the evidence we have is contrary to your claim.
Yes, John 5:18 and what did the Jews finally charge him with? Claiming to be God's son. That is what John 5:18 is about.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion
Really? No evidence whatsoevever that the jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to be God? What does John 10:33 say?
BauerPower247 1 year ago
@BauerPower247
Concerning John 10:33, u should not stop only in this verse & try to justify ur 3-nity doctrinal err. Read continue down through v.36. What did Jesus said? He said, "...because I said, I am the Son of God?" Further v.35, 36, read carefully. Right front of ur eyes yet can't u see?
shibakim 1 year ago
@shibakim
I see the verse clearly. What is the point you are trying to make about it?
BauerPower247 1 year ago
@BauerPower247
Read ur own comments how u r using John 10:33. Jesus never claimed he as God. That was Jews accusation against Jesus. Jesus corrected them by saying, v.34, 35, 36. Especially v.36, Jesus said, 'u accuse me as blasphemer because I said I am the Son of God?' Jesus didn't say 'u accuse me as blasphemer because I said I am God?'
shibakim 11 months ago
@shibakim
No one is denying the Jesus is the Son of God. That is not the issue. John 5:18 presents the backdrop for which the Jews wanted to kill Jesus in the first place. When you take a look at the two comments Jesus made just before they tried to kill him (John 8:58 - "I Am," as God was called in the OT; and John 10:30-The Father and I are one") this is consistent with the Jews reason for seeking to kill Jesus. continued...
BauerPower247 11 months ago
@BauerPower247
Issue here for me is Jesus of course as the son, born of God's Holy Spirit without an earthly father, surely he bore God's nature & he is equal as His Father in that sense (as to nature he received by His Father) but not as 2nd person in 3 persons of God. And if I say for ex., I & brother John, we r one, do u understand that as though I'm saying I m John & John is me?
shibakim 11 months ago
@shibakim
If you think about it - The Jews sought more to kill Jesus because he was calling God his own Father making himself equal with God, yet, they are going to say to Jesus that he is blaspheming because he a mere man makes himself 'a god.' Does John 5:18 say that Jesus was making himself equal with 'a god?"
In both instances they tried to kill him, was it not obvious that the Jews understood Jesus claim to deity. Why else would Jesus' claim to be the 'Son of God' upset the Jews?
BauerPower247 11 months ago
@BauerPower247
Yes, Jesus called God his own Father but he never said he's God himself. Further as u should know Jews were already upset at Jesus coz He didn't keep the Sabbath (in their legalistic & religious mind).
shibakim 11 months ago
@shibakim
"Jesus never claimed he as God. That was Jews accusation against Jesus. Jesus corrected them..."
Before you state that Jesus was "correcting" the Jews, you have to demonstrate that the Jews actually did misunderstand Jesus. You are assuming that the Jews misunderstood Jesus based on your own understanding of Jesus' claims. You cannot demonstrate this proposition from scripture. There is no reason to believe the legalistic and scripturally educated Jews misunderstood Jesus.
BauerPower247 11 months ago
@BauerPower247
U show me 1 place in the Bible where Jesus out of his own mouth said he is God. As u & all trinitarians claim what Jesus did not claim so the Jews. Watch & listen some of the videos made by others: Anthony Buzzard, Trinity delusion, howdytheresir. They made some very good videos. I might try to send u a couple of them.
shibakim 11 months ago
@shibakim , you are deceived friend. Jesus is the eternal Son of God and is from everlasting(Micah 5:2, Isaiah 9:6 and Daniel 7:13,14). He absolutely claimed equality with the Father and is the great"I AM"(John 8:58, Isaiah 43:10 and is the First and Last(Isaiah 44:6, Rev 1:17,18) Read Jesus's own words in John 17:5 or Mark14:62, John 8:24-58. "Unless you believe that "I AM" you will die in your sins". The Jews sought to stone Him because He claimed equality with God.
34craigjan 10 months ago
@shibakim , another reason they sought to stone Him was that He broke the Sabbath by healing. He said"My Father never stops working so why should I?" The Jews knew He was making Himself equal with God. Besides, Jesus said and did things that no mere man or prophet could have said or done. When Thomas said"my Lord and my God", Jesus never rebuked him or anyone when they worshipped Him.
34craigjan 10 months ago
@34craigjan Because it was/is given by His Father for us 2 worship His Son. If u know when Peter confessed that Jesus as THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD, Jesus praised Peter saying THAT knowledge is given by His Father from Heaven.
shibakim 7 months ago
@34craigjan Yes, Jesus the Son of God is 'my Lord and my God' to me and for me also. But that does not mean Jesus Christ is God Almighty. It's so plain & simple, a childe like faith, Almighty God, the God of Abraham, God of Jacob, God of Issac begot a son & his name is Jesus. Jesus Christ is THE UNIC SON OF GOD, Jesus is THE ONLY PERSON on earth born without a earthly father because as u know God begot him through His own spirit (Holy Spirit).
shibakim 6 months ago
@shibakim I really implore you to read through Colossians 1 & 2, Hebrews 1 and Philippians 2. There is an equality shared within the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). They each play a role in the redemption of mankind. That's the beauty of the universal gospel message because it applies to all. Unfortunately, most will not subject themselves to the love of God and be cast down and condemned. People need to worship the Jesus of the bible and not the fake Jesus of other religions.
34craigjan 6 months ago
@34craigjan There are no such things as what u wrote to me find in the Bible rather find in the Catholic doctrine. U must come out of fallen apostated Christian system & her teachings & doctrines. One of them, the doctrine of trinity.
shibakim 6 months ago
@shibakim the catholic church is corrupt and is a perversion of the truth. You follow that doctrine it'll lead you to destruction. Why would you think the man made teachings of the catholic church override the bible? YOU are deceived if you abide in these fables. Read through 2 Tim 4. Paul tells us that people will be led astray and be deceived by man made myths, heaping up for themselves teachers having itching ears that preach not the truth. Wake up!
34craigjan 6 months ago
@34craigjan That's what I was & am & will say continualy 2 u & others who r drunken of the wine of Catholic's & fallen apostated Christianity's doctrines, WAKE UP & COME OUT OF HER BEFORE GOD'S PLAGUES WILL FALL ON YOU. (Rev.18:4) R u so blinde u can not see? All these so called christian churches being united & gathered under Catholic? First study urself the doc. of trinity real good 2 know what u are really believing. If u really love Jesus of the Bible then u will be wake up by God's mercy.
shibakim 4 months ago
@TheTrinityDelusion
Oh wait. I forgot that you believe that the Jews understood Jesus was claiming to be only 'a god.' I guess this verse won't be considered proof for you at all.
BauerPower247 1 year ago
@BauerPower247
That's how Jesus understood the Jewish charge.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@TheTrinityDelusion
But you are failing to see the implications of John 5:18. Refer back to the Old testament. "To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One (Isaiah 40:25). - Who is the Holy One? The Jews who were strict monotheists knew that God had no equal.
BauerPower247 1 year ago
@BauerPower247
Read Isaiah 40:8 and remember who it is used in the OT.
TheTrinityDelusion 1 year ago
@October31st1517 God said let us make man in our image. Man is made after God's own image; he is not a 3 headed monster like the trinitarian God is. Man has spirit, soul & body- a copy after God. & also the H. S. is God's own spirit (see Ephesians 4:30), just like man- man has his own spirit. The "us" in Genesis refers to the angelic beings who are/were in the presence of God. They are not like the animals whom God had just created, but they are also in the image of God. Quit simple.
shibakim 4 months ago
@shibakim "The "us" in Genesis refers to the angelic beings..." Can you sjow me where in the bible that angels were created in the image of God. As far as I can tell, only humans were created in God's image?
October31st1517 4 months ago
@October31st1517 U r terribly wrong once again. Why don't u study Bible yourself? Instead me tell you what & where & how, why don't you look up every place in the Bible where angel or angels are quoted, look up & study yourself then answer will be clear.
shibakim 4 months ago
@October31st1517 Dear sir, I will jumb in here. Shibakim does not have to prove anything. The burden of proof is on U. That is because U trinitarians have perverted the meaning of what a person is by your monster three headed God. Common sense tells us that a person is one being not three. If that is not good enough for U then that proves that U are drunken with the wine of Babylon. Which means that there is a spirit in you that makes that you cannot or you will not use your rational mind.
Paulsministry 1 year ago
@Paulsministry "Common sense tells us that a person is one being not three." Sorry, but common sense is not my final authority. Scripture is. Scripture defines what is person & being. A rock has being. If you don't believe that let me throw one at your heretical head and you will believe it has being. Jesus, God in human flesh (Col 2:9) told us this truth about the trinity.John 15:26) as did the apostle John. (Rev 1:4) So the reason I believe in the trinity is because our savior taught us this.
October31st1517 1 year ago
@October31st1517 This shows your logical reasoning- the thing about the rock.
Paulsministry 1 year ago
@October31st1517
I laughed at u 'throwing a stone to "heretical head".' My oh my, I pray my Lord Jesus bless u with genuine repentance. Just remember, this dear brotr's head is Christ & true Christians rejoice when we receive the reproch for the name of our Lord Jesus sake. Great is our reward in heaven said my Jesus. U see, I & all who u consider as heretics, believe Jesus as the Son of God. Now show me where in the Bible teaches u that such a belief is heretic? Lord open Oct.31st1517's eyes
shibakim 1 year ago