Avatar/ On Deadly Ground trailer mashup.mov

[Covertpanda556]

Stop fighting ladies

[bloodrunsclear]

@Covertpanda556

LONG past thankfully XD

[torukmakto4]

...And that holds true for all the popular comparisons: Pocahontas/Dances with Wolves (going native), FernGully (environmental)... the similarities are far fewer than Avatar opponents admit. Us crusaders (YES, I am one and I am proud of it!) don't want to silence dissent. Dissent is OK. We only want to silence those who speak on misguided assumptions, put forth baseless arguments ("The plot is simplistic." Yeah, you got evidence for that?) and engage in flat-out trolling. That's all.

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

Name me a single instance of originality.

Blue aliens (Call Me Joe, Farscape) Mech war machines (The Matrix) put your mind in another body (Surrogates) all knowing tree spirit (Ferngully)

The plot is so simplistic its full of holes. Why did the humans spend billions of dollars and 17 years to appease the Na'vi, then attack them? Why does Jake bitch about the humans being racist but the Na'vi are just as racist? Why without oxygen are the trees green?

Utter unoriginal crap.

[torukmakto4]

@bloodrunsclear "Mechs" are a real concept and thus appear in many futuristic visions. Avatar was written YEARS before Surrogates and if either one is derivative of the other at all (likely not), it's Avatar that was ripped off. The atmosphere DOES contain oxygen, along with H2S and high levels of CO2 (= unbreathable by humans). The Avatar Program was created in response to governmental pressure on RDA, and was at least partly a publicity stunt. The assault on Hometree was entirely...

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

The mechs in the film look exactly like the one's the Matrix even though that makes no sense. Why are mechs a good jungle fighting weapon?

Avatar might have been written years before but there's a reference to the War on Terror. That means Cameron changed that part but left all the rip offs and lazy writing in.

Oh sorry, I guess trees wouldn't filter the environment. Or the blue water come to think of it.

A publicity stunt? Pretty damn expensive. And a stunt for who, the news?

[torukmakto4]

@bloodrunsclear ...Quaritch's deal. He had quite the militaristic agenda all along, and was just waiting for a reason to stomp all over whatever diplomacy had been achieved and fabricate a war instead: "When people are sitting on shit you want, you make them your enemy. Then you're justified in taking it." The Na'vi aren't racist. They united against an enemy that threatened every aspect of their lives. How you derive racism from that I don't know.

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

So the company hired a war crazy general guy to head an oppression they spent billions on a publicity stunt for to appear not-warlike? Not good planning.

The Na'vi aren't racist hmm?

'He stinks of human!'

'Take him away until he has unlearned his insanity!'

Words worthy of the finest racist.

[torukmakto4]

@bloodrunsclear Oh, and again you don't seem to understand the concept of racism. The discrimination was not racial. The Na'vi had EVERY RIGHT to be suspicious of Sky People messing around on their turf, for the two groups were AT WAR! The conflict was ongoing. Prior to the film was an incident in which RDA SecOps troops OPENED FIRE ON CHILDREN. What are you advocating they do, invite the ENEMY in for dinner? By your definition, the US was "racist" in denouncing the Germans during World War 2.

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

Actually you don't understand the concept of racism. Racism means 'discrimination based on race'.

'You stink of human' is not a value judgement based on the lifestyle of the RDA.

Oh, and I'm familiar with that scene that was cut. Cameron figured his humans just weren't evil enough. I bet they were eating puppy sandwiches at the time.

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

You may be a fine person but the problem is that this movie doesn't deserve or need defending. Its a lazy derivative and hateful story depending on people to ignore their better judgement and not take a stand against it for fear of being considered judgmental Imagine if we did the same for Eragon (a blatant Star Wars rip off). Would Eragon being popular or defended make it any less true that its tired and wasteful copy of superior works? Even if it was in 3D?

[torukmakto4]

@bloodrunsclear "depending on people to...not take a stand against it for fear of being considered judgmental." Um, no. Avatar fans are Avatar fans because we are Avatar fans. We don't give half a damn about what "the public" thinks of this film. To me, personally, whether I am considered judgmental or not doesn't matter. I love Avatar because I do. If it had totally flopped and been universally hated, I would love it just as much. How is the story "hateful" in the slightest? That is nonsense.

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

So you love Avatar because...you do? Good reasoning.

I love Chronicles of Riddick because I do too. Is it a good film? Probably not.

Avatar is hateful because it presents a vision in which all military and industrial people are evil, so evil they destroyed the planet. The only solution? Kill them.

Think about it. This soldier betrays his people and ends up killing them all, but its okay. They were all bad anyway.

And at the end he casts off his humanity. Humans just suck.

[torukmakto4]

@bloodrunsclear I love Avatar because it is an excellent film (*puts on flame suit and grabs fire extinguisher*) in every way. You are going to fight me on every point here, but I find it not only artistically significant as a work of cinema, but extremely powerful as a story. Its message is one I feel everyone on this planet should be aware of. There is nothing wrong with being hateful of corruption (ex. in corporate industry and the military-industrial complex as presented in Avatar).

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

In every way? WATCH MORE FILMS.

The plot is rote, the message is nonsensical, characters bland, music forgettable, world derivative. I've seen better environmental films, better sci-fi, better everything.

You only think its powerful because you agree with it.

Guess what? Some of us who don't subscribe to the cult of Global Warming or conspiracy theories don't think a film should be allowed to be lazy just because it sends a message.

Did you think Ferngully was powerful too?

[torukmakto4]

@bloodrunsclear ...That is what is attacked. You must not see things in such shades of black and white! Attacking injustice in society is NOT an attack on the society itself. It is a call for attention. Corporate corruption, resource conflicts, military and mercenary brutality, environmental destruction, imperialism... all are current issues that need to be identified and, ideally, mitigated! The worst thing to do is close your eyes to it all and hate anyone who brings it up.

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

You know what's unjust in society? Directors who live in mansions complaining about capitalism. Environmentalists frightening children into hating their parents. Hateful misanthropic propaganda being passed off as entertainment.

You want to address brutality? How about terrorists?

You want to address environmental destruction? How about China?

You want to address imperialism? How about North Korea?

You don't want to tackle problems, you just don't like this country.

[torukmakto4]

@bloodrunsclear If you are going to try and pull that whole "it's anti-human" card on me, just remember this: Avatar pushes values and morals that are very human. It attacks all that can corrupt us, turn us inhuman and immoral. It represents this corruption in RDA, a megacorporation that is definitively very inhuman. It depicts the defeat of mercenary forces that are also corrupt and, well, inhumanly savage. The Na'vi embody our positive side, the human side, despite their "alien" nature.

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

How dare I say the truth!

Very human? Hmm...so that would explain why at the end the hero ceases to be human?

Tell me this. If there a movie where a gay man is working for gay men, discovers a straight man fighting on the other side, betrays his gay friends, eventually morphs into a straight person...that story SUPPORTED being gay?

You're delusional.

[torukmakto4]

@bloodrunsclear The "racial" division between sides is irrelevant; it's the morals that matter here. RDA had no moral ground to stand on and the Na'vi were the innocent victims of its imperialistic policies. If you were as race-neutral as you claim to be, then you wouldn't be so caught up in the "alien" aspect and you would see that, in the end, it is largely insignificant. What matters is that Jake followed his morals and ethics triumphed over corruption.

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

Ah, the racial divisions are irrelevant. That would explain why humans are always referred to as 'aliens'. Likewise if it doesn't matter the Na'vi are human or not, why are they not?

Also a film in which the story, characters and plot makes no difference and the whole thing is just an excuse to push a message?

That's call propaganda.

[torukmakto4]

You know, I really enjoyed your trailer mashup. It did a great job of matching elements of the messages of these two films. However, SHAME ON YOU, for you just HAD to go and turn your description into one giant anti-Avatar polemic, didn't you? You just HAD to try to twist the similarity in message into yet another tired old argument that Avatar is unoriginal. I'm sorry, but sharing the concept of a protagonist turning against an environmentally harmful megacorp does NOT render Avatar unoriginal.

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

Well, Avatar IS unoriginal.

Let me count the ways...

A planet humans cannot breath on but they want to conquer (Battle for Terra)

An explorer meets with a native princess and learns about the natives he regarded as savages (Pochantus...I mean come on)

A soldier goes under cover and ends up betraying his side, but its okay because his new people are bette. (Dances With Wolves, The Last Samurai)

Hero is prophesied to wrangle a mythic monster (Dune)

Nothing original.

[torukmakto4]

@bloodrunsclear Humans don't want to "conquer" Pandora. RDA seeks only to extract resources found nowhere else, and the Na'vi are an obstacle. The "going native" structure is pervasive. If you declare Avatar derivative because it uses this concept, you must also consider Pocahontas, Dances with Wolves, etc. to be derivative of countless other works. It has been used since we had the capacity to tell stories. Hero prophesied to wrangle mythic monster is the same deal. Look at Greek mythology.

[bloodrunsclear]

@torukmakto4

They wouldn't want to conquer Pandora in real life, but through the magic of Cameron's hack writing they decide to kill all the Na'vi and become stock villains, true.

'derivative of countless other works'

Yes its lazy, but if even the DETAILS are boldfacedly copied.

Name an original element. I dare you.

[guitarobsessed85]

Pocahontas and Avatar are nearly the same thing...

[smeagle9999]

lol..... but avatar wastes 3-4 hours of your life! district 9 only wastes about 2.5!

[bloodrunsclear]

Remember when movies were...what was the word again...

Didn't clobber you over the head? Weren't designed to make you feel like a louse? Told interesting stories without clinging lamprey-like to some kind of mainstream social topic?

I forgot the word. Its been awhile...

[narutoiz]

Actually, my friends saw Avatar and they hated it so much and wasted $10 to see a movie, but they thought District 9 was waaaaay better :)

[HonestObserver]

I'm just saying that if a film is cinematically (District 9) or technically (Avatar) well-done enough, who cares what messages it may or may not preach. Despite some heavy-handed attempts to make a statement about illegal immigration and the war on terror, Children of Men was one of the best films of its year, and was robbed of an Oscar nomination. Avatar has a lot of problems, but I don't think they detract it from being enjoyable- or at least from looking pretty.

[HonestObserver]

Hollywood sci-fi in 2009 in a nutshell:

Avatar for the looks

District 9 for the heart

Moon for the mind

[bloodrunsclear]

Another hidden nutshell

Avatar: Ecco-propaganda

District 9: Apartheid rant

Moon: Anti-establishment/existential rant

Remember when stories could just be...stories?

[HonestObserver]

Yes. That would be Transformers 2.

[bloodrunsclear]

No. That would by Star Wars.

That would be Last Starfighter, Back to the Future, Jurassic Park, Lord of the Rings...

[HonestObserver]

Star Wars: It's a story, alright. The story of The Hero with a Thousand Faces. Also, Taoism.

The Last Starfighter: Disney's 1984 plan to combine interest in video games and the conclusion of Star Wars to make a killing at the box office.

Back to the Future: DeLorean ad campaign.

Jurassic Park: Evils of technology. Classic Crichton Frankenstein scenario.

Lord of the Rings: A mix of Tolkien's interests- fictional languages, the medieval ages, and Catholicism. Maybe WWII allegory as well.

[bloodrunsclear]

At least none of these pushed tired/pervasive political agendas.

And were made in the cause of entertainment, not ego.

[HonestObserver]

Avatar has the tired old trope of the colonizer learning the ways of the colonized and leading them to victory. Tired, yes, but hardly political. The villain is generic evil corporation, which even Pirates of the Carib. has! Hardly pervasive.

Neill Blomkamp himself said in an interview on the site FirstShowing that he grew up in apartheid-era South Africa and thought it would be an interesting setting for sci-fi. There was no big message to the film. No rant at all. Where's the ego?

[bloodrunsclear]

The evil corporation angle is so pervasive it isn't considered political any more. But it is. Its one more way the government convinces you to concede all powers to it, by convincing you all private corporations are evil.

And the who 'noble savage' issue and nature worship thing I think is intensely political.

Yeah. But the issue is political, and goes along with the whole 'all organizations not directly controlled by the government are evil' .

The ego I meant primarily in James Cameron's case.

[HonestObserver]

Not exactly. Big corporations are an easy stand-in for the abstract concept of Mammon. Portraying an evil company should no more equal supporting big gov't than a portrayal of fires or a plague. And Avatar didn't say Big Gov't is the solution. Neither did Aliens.

Noble savages and the Gaian hypothesis are not necessarily relevant to today's politics. Again, tired old tropes. I do like io9's analysis of it in terms of race. But that's all subtext that most viewers don't care about anyways.

[bloodrunsclear]

Hardly pervasive...except that you just admitted the concept of evil corporations is so common it isn't worth noting. That would indicate pervasiveness to me.

I hated Pirates 3 for the same reason I hated Avatar, but people agreed Pirates was bad and laud Avarice...sorry...Avatar as if it was the second coming.

The overbearing evil of humans stacked against the gentle purity of the aliens coupled with the fact that the story wouldn't exist without apartheid indicates a political film to me.

[HonestObserver]

I'm not saying that all of these films are perfect. Avatar definitely has the markings of a James Cameron paean to his own ego. But I enjoy it not for the tired tropes but for the sheer visual feast and the prospect that future films will look like it. It has stock villains and cliches, but I see no clean political caricatures in it like there were in the Bush era. In any case these films all entertain, and it's only when a viewer actively looks for some Grand Message then there are issues.

[HonestObserver]

And ironically, my enjoyment of this video (it hits Avatar's weakpoints spot-on in an elegant method) has been diminished now that I've found that you had some hidden Grand Message of "today's films suck." I just wanted to be entertained by some good-natured ribbing, not hear cynical mourning for a mythical Golden Era "when stories could just be stories." District 9 and Moon, some of the best non-franchise sci-fi films in recent years are rants? What's good then? Primer?

[jadiana]

Actually, stories always had these sorts of themes. It's impossible for a writer to not reflect the things in the world around him in some fashion. For crying out loud even authors like Dickens had sociopolitical reflection in their works.

What's different is that it has become acceptable to 2-dimensionalize any topic or issue. Black or White. Us or Them. Add in a little anti-intellectualism too.

[bloodrunsclear]

Exactly. Even if the issue is worth promoting (debatable) Avatar is such a dumbing down of it that whatever meaning could have been there is lost.

This leads me to think of three reasons behind this...

-Cameron thinks his audience are idiots

-He himself thinks two dimensionally

-He's deliberately making propaganda

[HonestObserver]

You can't get much more 2-dimensional than Light Side and Dark Side. Face it, what people decry today is simply the continuation of trends that have always existed.

[bloodrunsclear]

The issue doesn't stem from good versus evil, it stems from evil being defined as both the very people the writer belongs to, that evil being identified as worthy of death, and of course that evil's definition making Cameron a hypocrite (money is evil...unless its my billions)

[troika1138]

Cool, hopefully when Cameron decides to make a sequel to this movie he goes more Aliens/Space Above and Beyond and less Ferngully.

[SuperXAsh]

I would love to see this, but yeah... part of me is worrying that all it's gonna be is insulting to my intelligence and message-thumping out the ass. Would love for it to prove me otherwise, would love to have faith in James Cameron... but I still just have this nagging feeling that all I'd be doing was watching an annoying message movie.

Is it just me or is this turning into a bigger-budgeted Battle for Terra? :P

[bloodrunsclear]

@SuperXAsh

That's honestly all it is. Listen to his interviews. He sounds VERY scornful when he describes the action parts, as if they're just a means to an end. Don't waste your money would be my advice.

Its not just you. Battle for Terra was of course about a wounded marine who joins the saintly natives to fend of the humans who lost their planet, on a planet with atmosphere toxic to humans...

No similarities there XD

[SuperXAsh]

I guess I'll just wait till it comes out to rent... or something. Maybe borrow it from a friend.

*was hoping that it'd pleasantly surprise him like I, Robot, (or Meet the Parents) whose trailers tried to paint it as an entirely different story concept*

[bloodrunsclear]

@SuperXAsh

I might too. It does look pretty.

Nope. I've heard enough interviews to know if anything the movie is worse :/

[SuperXAsh]

I mean there's nothing wrong with having a message to your movie... but usually, as I've noticed... it's best to make it subtle. Not constantly hitting you in the head like a hammer.

[bloodrunsclear]

@SuperXAsh

Indeed! If he had stuck with it as a subtext, not the overriding theme, I wouldn't care. The Matrix has the subtext of anarchy, but its held in check by an awesome, imaginative story.

However including lines in Avatar like 'shock and awe' and including a scene to look like 9/11 if just tacky, and makes it clear that the movie is manipulative.

It is a shame. The battles looked cool...

[boettcherownzu]

Until the "Steven Sagal" name was mentioned, i could have sworn this was perfect. Lol, nice job. I'd have to agree with your description, but I'm excited to see this movie regardless. I'm seeing it for free on Friday, so I haven't got much to lose. Btw, your fake movie trailers are superb, keep up the good work!

[Termiborger]

Well...I don't want to say anything without seeing the actual movie, and knowing James Cameron's past movies, I guess this is pretty decent. However, seeing the amount of CG Effects in the trailers, I'd say, that from that much money spent on it, he should've made the Halo movie instead. But again, this is MY opinion. Keep it in mind, I said nothing about the actual movie.

[bloodrunsclear]

@Termiborger

Do you realize how fearful you sound?

Just say you believe something! Why do people have to keep shaving their convictions to satisfy others? Honestly, aren't we all brought up to believe we should fight the system and so forth? Why then do we have to live in constant fear of the opinions of others?

Say what you mean I say. For now its still a free county...

[Termiborger]

I do indeed realized it, but I live in a simple, and practical way: Make friends with everyone, or stay neutral with everyone. In the comment, I tried to express my feelings about this movie, and i honestly found it pretty much worth watching. To answer your question, I think we simply fear, that we might be either dissapointed, or "flamed down" because of our point of view. I, for example was affraid that i might run into a fanbase, and just simply commit suicide.

[bloodrunsclear]

@Termiborger

It is a good idea to make friends as you say, but I think you should also stand up for your opinions sometimes. It does take moderation. The problem I have with the movie being 'worth watching' is that then every ticket sold encourages Hollywood to make more movies like Avatar, and in a bad way. It sends them the message they can make lots of CGI with no story, and still make money.

As for traveling into a nest of fan, never stopped me.

But I'm a little weird...

[Termiborger]

However, as you said, we have no reason to do this. We have been raised to fight the system, true. But I beleive that the system might be working, even though it has it's own defects, thus I will listen to what you, and the commenters has to say, before I make my opinion. I'd say it's pretty stupid, but I sure won't make enemies with this method.

[bloodrunsclear]

@Termiborger

But if we don't challenge these kind of thoughtless films frankly then nobody will. People are so terrified by being called 'objectivist' that they either blindly praise everything or keep their mouths shut.

And if the system does indeed work, why allow this movie to pass which encourages people to challenge all systems?

You're welcome to your own actions, thoughts, and beliefs.

But I want to be so too, but a lot of what I believe simply isn't allowed. I won't be silenced :/

[Termiborger]

Oh. Now I see your point. Being a subscriber of yours, I didn't really got the slightest idea, that you actually dislike this movie! Maybe I should have read the info part, more open-mindedly. I cannot disagree, that every ticket sold for this movie, is a ticket mispent. the world changed a lot in the last, say...20-30 years, and so did hollywood, which is a shame. Your intentions are honourbale though, and after seeing it(yes, I did download it, just to experience it). I'm with you.

[JHAce2k]

Totally EPIC!!!

But what makes this trailer really epic... the late Don LaFontaine's voice-over!!!

[bloodrunsclear]

@JHAce2k

Completely agree!

I miss 'the voice' :(

[EditNinja]

Ha! That was eerie, how close you made the two movies appear. I like it!

[EvilgidgitReturns]

Oh, and Avatar is a lot like Pocahontas:

-Pompous people come to remove natives to get a valuable source.

-One of them meets and greets the natives.

-Guy and native lady fall in love.

-Battle!

-Guy and natives win. Only difference is that the invaders didn't rebel against their leader.

[THEFIRSTAVENGERUSA]

Yeah. Avatar is actually based on Pocahontas, Cameron said it himself. It looks like an interesting film but idk, smurfs battleing dragons and transformers seems a little strange. Oh well. Nice trailer.

[EvilgidgitReturns]

I love your re-imaginings for films on Deviantart - maybe you should do one for Avatar?

Avatar is a decent film with good visuals, but you are right, it does have a lot of questionable issues to it, particularly how most of the humans are shown as being buttheads hellbent on killing the Intergalactic Smurfs for a bunch of rocks. Plus the villains were stereotypical.

Oh well, we still have Alice, Toy Story 3, and others to look forward to next year.

[Irishflyboy255]

Eco-political commentary asside, I can't stand the fact that the humans went and lost to a bunch'a pseudo-smurfs!

[bloodrunsclear]

@Irishflyboy255

I know! Really if the leaders had any kind of sense they'd just gas the little self righteous creeps.

Consider. The humans already have gas masks and the atmosphere is 100% toxic anyway. Why blow up the tree when you can pick your way through the blue corpses and pick up your magic rocks at leisure?

I could have made a much better evil military guy then that scar headed dope XD

[Irishflyboy255]

Hell, why not napalm the whole planet, just go in and strip what's left.

[bloodrunsclear]

@Irishflyboy255

Because all evil people in movies must be both evil and stupid.

Cameron tried nothing new. These guys might as well be stormtroopers for all the character or thought that was put into them.

Nice to see during war time our troops portrayed as evil and stupid. Class act :)

[Irishflyboy255]

Well said. Nice job, my man. Can't wait for the next well-made and sadly fake trailer.

[ScopeStudios]

You know whats funny that sounds like the movie outlander. If you haven't seen it you should give it a watch.

[ScopeStudios]

Even if your right you should watch the movie first.

[bloodrunsclear]

@ScopeStudios

Um...why?

I saw Battlefield Earth, Dragonball Evolution, and Plan Nine from Outer Space even after I knew they sucked.

I've learned my lesson, and I sure as heck am not going to spend money so Cameron can make another little ego trip.

[ScopeStudios]

So you can have an unbiased opinion. No one is going to take your criticisms seriously if you haven't witnesses the film first hand.

See it at a matinee price, or buy tickets to something else.

I sat though dragonball evolution and plan 9, and I enjoyed it. But only because I had a friend to help me riff on it. So you can do that too.

Also District 9 (in my opinion) didn't suck, I loved it.(again, my opinion.)

[bloodrunsclear]

@ScopeStudios

Uh...I can't have an unbiased opinion. Nobody can.

Opinions mean making a statement of beliefs and beliefs if they override other beliefs are biases. Unfair bias is considering that there is no other belief right then the one you personally hold true.

Like, say, Avatar.

The only version of Avatar I'll likely enjoy is the Rifftrax version :D

As for District 9, I found it preachy and boring :/

[zeroG131]

Can't wait for the same people who bitched about District 9 to get here -_ -

[bloodrunsclear]

@zeroG131

Personally I found that movie kind of...problematic too.

Does every bloody science fiction movie have to have transparent stories based on popular historical issues?

What's next? Vietnam...with aliens?

Unfortunately because District 9 and Avatar had admittedly terrific visuals this kind of mediocre storytelling is constantly given a pass.

The buck stops here :/

[zeroG131]

Hollywood finds things to use as a story, adds their own crap, and sells it. Sometimes its good other times it should be destroyed out of existence. But its not just because of CGI.

[zeroG131]

You need a decent script, acting, and whatever else centers around the movie. AND IT ALL SHOULDN'T BE FOUND IN THE TRAILER!

[ScopeStudios]

You really should watch district 9 before you criticize its storytelling.

[Hawdkoah]

Isn't that the whole point of science fiction? To take on societal issues and put them in a setting that is outlandish but relatable? I'm not saying that's something Avatar is trying to do and if anything it's probably just going to be a special effects extravaganza along the lines of Terminator and Transformers. I believe science fiction is an outlet for the oppressed and the fearful, not just those seeking to be entertained.

[bloodrunsclear]

@Hawdkoah

Uh...no.

The point of science fiction to speculate the future based on facts, not on personal bias.

If science fiction is an outlet for the oppressed, why Indians? They're plenty hyped let me tell you. School kids across this nation are forced to read how white people killed everybody and deserve to die (I did).

How about a voice for the truly silenced? Those its now socially acceptable to ridicule?

White people, conservatives, religious people...

[Hawdkoah]

From what I've gathered, the majority of good science fiction draws from current and past events. (i.e. Cold War scares, shifts in power, etc.)

Native Americans are hyped because they faced genocide. It's not a proud part of our history, but it's still part of our history. But they're far from being the only people to face genocide. It's more of a matter of using old, recycled plots so that audiences don't have to think about what they're watching and focus on the pretty special effects.

[bloodrunsclear]

@Hawdkoah

Draw from, yes. Ape from. No.

And yeah it is a nasty part of our history. So nasty there's been a few billions movies made based on the story.

And know you're saying the story IS weak and was made purposefully to be so?

I think you need to pick one; brilliant science fiction based on historical events, or purposefully flavorless retread made so the neanderthals watching the pretty lights don't get confused :/

[Hawdkoah]

(continued)

There are plenty of variations of science fiction that accommodate more than one group. Event Horizon is often considered a religious film and the remake of V has plenty of conservative undertones all of which have drawn in generally broad audiences. While you may not agree with the point they're trying to put across, there are other elements that make a good story that don't necessarily rely on political backwash.

[bloodrunsclear]

@Hawdkoah

That there are...so why didn't Avatar do that?

Instead we get 9/11 imagery, constant spouting of catch phrases like 'fight terror with terror' and 'shock and awe'.

That's just petty political posturing.

The story at this point seems to have proven itself either stupid or biased.

And both assumptions are based on your own assessments.

Funny also that V actually kicked out its old writer when it was supposed he was being too critical of Obama...

Hmm...

[Hawdkoah]

9/11 imagery? Where exactly did you see this?

Keep in mind I'm not making a case for Avatar. I'm saying science fiction is capable of making a statement while telling a unique story. We shouldn't be too quick to dismiss a story for its underlining message if the story itself is entertaining.

Really? The idea of average Americans taking on an alien society with promises of advancements in medicine when alternate forces are at work sounded close to some Right Wing editorials.

[bloodrunsclear]

@Hawdkoah

The destruction of the 'life tree' is filmed very similarly.

Science fiction should.

That's one reason I think Avatar is not very good.

Not to mention the story isn't entertaining.

Gee...I wonder if the scarred war vet will go AWOL? Do you really suppose that girl Jake meets might be the chief's daughter?

Yup, that's why they changed the writers.

If you watch recent episodes they have the main alien talking about the 'clever and handsome' president.

A little apology to the viewers

[Hawdkoah]

I dunno, that seems like a bit of a stretch. I think it's meant to be a primary goal of some sort.

I agree, it does seem to be lacking in plot. You really only have to watch the trailers in order to know that the story is as generic and linear as they get. But will the public care? Well, if you look at how well Transformers 2 did at the box office, you'll have your foreboding answer.

[bloodrunsclear]

@Hawdkoah

But people like Transformers because its fun and not the least bit hateful. Believe it or not I really now appreciate those films now that Avatar has proven its possible to be worse then stupid...you can also be hateful.

People want to have fun and I think they'll discover that's not Avatar's purpose.

[Hawdkoah]

Personally I don't care for movies like Transformers because I feel like they're a montage of everything Hollywood is capable of doing in terms of special effects rather than storytelling. I think that's more or less what Avatar's purpose is. The plot is really applicable to anything and is so simple that it focuses on the future of Hollywood rather than the characters themselves. I don't believe it's trying to be hateful, rather it's presenting an old trick with a new look.

[bloodrunsclear]

@Hawdkoah

Lets consider this for a moment.

What is the difference between Transformers and Avatar?

200 million dollars. That's it.

Both stories have been told a million times before, and better. Both have bad dialogue, paper thin characters, obvious political agendas.

It does focus on the future of Hollywood though.

The old days of writing stories and characters of interest were so taxing. From now on all you need is lots and lots of money.

Ironic for a movie about nonconformity.

[Hawdkoah]

(continued)

Creative differences I suppose. But if it was appealing to an audience, why shrug them off? We don't all have to agree philosophically or politically. It's art and storytelling that strengthens our culture above all.

[narutoiz]

@bloodrunsclear and @ScopeStudios

I've seen dbe and the movie was just terribly made, the acting was just so awful , and I couldn't accept how Hollywood makes another million over terrible films, also how they made my favorite anime of all time just pure disgusting over a movie that a fanboy could do better at. Avatar just ruined the name of the upcoming anime's film name, but what why is it that films get the "Best Film Of The Year" with all that gay stuff ? :O :/

[bloodrunsclear]

@narutoiz

Because Hollywood has been waiting all this time for a movie that was both popular and pushed their particular brand of agenda. Avatar seems to be that.

And yes, The Last Airbender is going to kick blue ass XD

[Irishflyboy255]

Eh, I still dunno about that. I mean, Shama-Llama-ding-dong has his moments, yes, but after "The Happening"...

[bloodrunsclear]

@Irishflyboy255

That's why I think unlike...say...James Cameron, he's learned his lesson, that people don't generally like preaching disguised as entertainment.

I hope for Avatar he makes it for an audience, not his own gratification.

[AKenjiB]

Are you gonna see Avatar?

[bloodrunsclear]

@AKenjiB

Not if I can help it.

[jaranu]

I see the resemblance, but I find that the story of AVATAR sounds more like the story of Disney's Pochahontus. (I'm sure I spelt that wrong)

[bloodrunsclear]

@jaranu

I actually covered that one too XD

Pocahontas...actually that's pretty close!

[bloodrunsclear]

@N7242C

My thinking however is that even with the CGI its still IS a generic story. The only reasons its getting good reviews is because of the amazing tech on display.

Why didn't Transformers or the Star Wars prequels then get nominated for best picture? They had just as much right.

[Sibster45678]

Oh my brother testify!!!! sorry the Brother D-Von in me came out. funny video though.

[EvilgidgitReturns]

@bloodrunsclear

By the Matrix, Revenge of the Sith was damn terrible!

[VincentCrane82]

Agreed on your Avatar statement.

I don't know a thing about this movie, but I understand what your message is.