If I want an intelligent discussion about religion, I talk to my friends. I'm atheist, my friends are Christian, and we have great discussions.
But the second you step on the internet and start discussing religion... holy shit. Every Christian looks like a moron and every atheist looks like an asshole. I'll keep out of this.
1. How do you cope with no meaning to your existence?
2. How do you cope with no hope?
3. How do you cope with no justice? For example if a paedophile raped many children, but when he died he was glorified in history books and honoured by society, your belief is he gets away with his crimes with no divine judgement? How do you cope with that?
@OzInfoWarrior 1) just because there is no place to go after you die, and just because theres no set of guidlines for you to forcefully follow or else, doesnt mean our existence has no meaning. i think my existence has meaning to me. it may not affect the entire galaxy, but the universe is huge. there are hundreds of billions of galaxies and in ours alone, there is a sun that is 22000 times the size of our planet. i dont think my actions affect the universe. it doesnt mean it is purposeless
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Your existence has no meaning without God. You're born, sometimes you breed, you die. No meaning. You only fool yourself into believing your life has meaning because without meaning you realize your position as an atheist is not meaningfull at all.
@OzInfoWarrior 2) how do i cope with no hope in a tyrannical evil dictator who watches everything i do and judges me for it accordingly to a contradictory book written over 2000 years ago by people in an illiterate country who thought that diseases and natural disasters were gods wrath. its easy mate. im not afraid of death. i think we have one life. so im going to spend it the best way i possibly can. i dont need hope that there is a god to be happy.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 God isn't a dictator. He gave man freewill so you could choose to love him or not. That's why evil exists, because God allows freewill. He doesn't force you to love him. The Bible is not full of contradictions. That's an amateur Atheist argument card that is played over and over by those who believe in the law Do What Thou Wilt.
@OzInfoWarrior god isnt a dictator? yes you have free will but that doesnt mean he isnt a dictator. do you have any influence over the criteria to get in eaven? do you have any say as to who can get in/ when in heaven what it should be like? if your family member went to hell and you were in heaven, you d know that your family member is suffering an eternity and god has the ability to prevent it yet chooses not to. how is that no a dictatorship? what he says goes. you are just a minion.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 so because God is a "dictator" as you say it, and he has set some rules for you to get into heaven, your response is to reject him? go ahead, but the rules wont disappear just because you "dont believe". the time of reckoning will come and each person will have to answer.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 How can you have complete free will to do whatever you want, believe whatever you want and say whatever you want and still call the person who gave you that free will a dictator? All of man is born of the original sin, therefore we all fall short of the standard of God. Muslims believe we don't have original sin, so they have to explain why none of us is perfect.
@OzInfoWarrior none of us are perfect because our perceptions of perfection differ. telling children that we re all born into sin without having actually knowingly done anything is just wrong. yes i have the ability to do whatever i want. but in terms of death and an 'afterlife', i have no say. i have no say who makes it to heaven, what the criteria are for. you cant see how that is a dictator? what he says goes. its that simple. what if he wasnt 'benevolent'? are you kidding me?
@GOOdGuyGreg1 It's really hard to follow what you're saying, because you have such a skewed, western civilization understanding of the God of the Bible.
Why do you believe it's your right to have any power over who enters heaven?
Your ideology is simple. You want to do what you want and you don't want any restrictions on your actions or be held accountable for your life. Aldous Huxley was the same, though he didn't believe in the Darwinian idea because there was enormous evidence for it, but because "I chose to believe it because it delivered me from trying to find meaning and freed me to my own erotic passions."
@OzInfoWarrior no that is not why im an atheist. im not an atheist because that means i can do what i want. im an atheist because there is no evidence that a) a god exists, b) that if there was a god, he would have any interaction with us, let alone just humans. c) that the christian interpretation of god is accurate. you just think what all other religious folk do-that you ve got it right and everyone else is wrong.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 There is evidence God exists. The Big Bang Theory fits perfectly with the creation in Genesis. You choose not to believe it. You would rather have FAITH that everything came from NOTHING. That's why I'm not an atheist because it's funny that people actually think something came from nothing.
The Bible explains all the questions of life, and has the historical accuracy to prove it's the word of God through PROPHECY. No other anicent book does what the Bible does.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 God is the only one who is perfect and God has given you his son as the sacrifice for us to be able to be worthy in his sight.
Only God can choose who gets into heaven and that is only through his son. I love God more than anyone in my family. I'm sure most of my family will go to hell but that was their choice. I don't feel bad about that. God has given them the chance, who am I to say they should be saved, I don't know their thoughts nor all their actions.
@OzInfoWarrior there you go. that is one of the most horendous things ive ever heard. "I love god more than anyone in my family. im sure most of them will go to hell but thats their choice. i dont feel bad about that". i used to think you were simply misguided. now i know what a terrible person you really are. for you to be ok with someone suffering for an eternity is just evil. you are mindless, youre just a sick excuse for a human being.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "that is one of the most horendous things ive ever heard."
See, you don't understand the concept of God, at all. God is to be loved above all else. Why would I love anyone, even my own child more than God? Why would I love a sinner more than God?
"for you to be ok with someone suffering for an eternity is just evil."
I'm not happy about it, but that's God's punishment for denying him.
"now i know what a terrible person you really are. . youre just a sick excuse for a human being."
Notice, how as a Christian, I can't judge you, yet you being an atheist believe you have the right to judge me. Atheists have no moral compass for the distinction between right and wrong. Thank you for being a perfect example of that point.
@OzInfoWarrior yet you cannot provide evidence. you go by an inaccurate book written over 2000 years ago by different authors who were goat herders and that contradict each other many times, in one of the most illiterate places on earth and introduce a religion that is biased towards people in certain georgraphic locations and cultures and threatens a penalty that does not acknowledge this bias.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 All your arguments are age old atheist remarks that have been demolished time and time again. It gets so tedious hearing the same crap, "that contradict each other many times". What books on this subject did you read? or who have you been following without doing the research?
@OzInfoWarrior don't act like you dont judge. everybody does. when you hear of a child molester you judge him dont you? and yes i can judge you. i judge a man who is ok with the fact that his family members are going to be tortured for an eternity yet still worships the being who could prevent this, simply if he made himself more clear. you do it because you re scared. you didnt answer my question regarding a lack of heaven or hell. you need to grow up and learn some compassion
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Of course I judge from time to time because it's human nature and I fall short from the glory of God's perfection. The difference is I don't go out of my way to express my judgement to attack a person like you do. You think it's morally acceptable, I don't. I have standing to back up my position, you don't.
I have more compassion than you. You believe it's acceptable to judge someone on their beliefs. Should I have expected anything different from an atheist?
@OzInfoWarrior i judge someones beliefs because if they re as outlandish as yours where you feel little or no compassion for your family members despite them possibly going to hell. yes that is more acceptable. you judge just like i do. whether i voice it or not is entirely different. i voice it because i know that a human being who is ok with a fellow human being tortured for an eternity as harmful to the human race. that is why religion is a disease. faith is fine. religion is evil
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Regardless of how outlandish a person's belief is, you have no right to judge them.
"i voice it because i know that a human being who is ok with a fellow human being tortured for an eternity as harmful to the human race."
It's God's condemnation, not mine. You're accusing me for not having an emotional response over something I have no control over and because I'm not swimming in sorrow like you expect me to be.
@OzInfoWarrior "its gods condemnation, not mine". yes but if you accept that then you agree with that. if not then that just proves again that god is a dictator. and yes i voice my opinions where need be. if someone (heres an extreme case) goes around trying to promote child rape, then not only will i judge them, but ill also speak out against it. i dont care if the bible supports/opposes it. that is my belief. if the bible did support it, would you? hypothetically here.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 It's not a dictatorship because God has given you the free will to choose to either follow him or not. He doesn't force you to love him, because as soon as it's forced, it's not love.
"what he says goes."
Absolutely. He created the universe and man.
"you are just a minion."
Man was created in God's image, the image of the creator of the universe.
If there is no God, then we're all trapped in a world filled with senseless and unredeemable suffering with absolutely no hope of deliverance from evil...
Can I ask what fulfills you and gives you happiness that lasts?
@OzInfoWarrior what gives me happiness? not a god thats for sure. im happy from being with family and friends. im happy playing sport; by going on holidays, to different countries, thrill seeking like skydiving. im a happy person and i dont need the belief in an evil god to maker me so. the world we live in is as good as the people. you say this world is evil? if I asked you if i deserved to go to hell what would you say? if yes then you re evil. if no then god is a dictator
@OzInfoWarrior i asked for your opinion about whether i should go to hell. yes you may not be right but guess what mate, you do have an opinion! i know its weird isnt it? do you think i deserve to go to hell?
and one more question: what if there was no heaven and hell?.. but god said he still wants to to be a christian and worship him and he has absolutely no intervention at all. would you still go to church, repent your sins, pray etc?
@OzInfoWarrior 3) in response to your question, i propose a counter question. in your religion, if someone commits a murder, if they 'find god' they can be 'saved' and still go to heaven. now wheres the justice in that where a morally decent human being, lets say a hindu, were to lead a good and just life, but then be damned to an eternity of suffering simply because of his geographic location and his envrionment brought up in? because he was raised in a hindu family.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Interesting that you couldn't answer my question of no real justice in your world view. Yes, if someone commits murder and then later falls into the arms of Jesus, and God acknowledges that he is sincere in his repentance, yes he will enter heaven. Yes, a Hindu or atheist who leads a morally good life, within their own eyes, but not of God's, will not enter heaven, because the person rejected Jesus as the only way to the Father. The justice is clear in this.
@OzInfoWarrior the justice is clear? a morally correct person suffers for an eternity because of where they were born and the environment that they were brought up in. yep that sounds like justice to me. and by your logic, why dont atheists go round killing people when they re old and about to die? because we have whats called human decency towards one another and compassion. why do atheists have an incredibly low crime rate per capita? why do they have less suicides?
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "A morally correct person" in who's eyes? By what definition of having good morals can you reference without God?
"why dont atheists go round killing people when they re old & about to die?"
That's an extreme question. My question would be, why do atheists conduct their lives under the Judeo-Christian laws? Is it not survival of the fittest? Are you not the weak atheist if you don't lie, rape, cheat, and steal to get further ahead & the most happiness out of life?
@OzInfoWarrior a morally correct person by our own views! you do have an opinion. stop being a sheep. and all morals are man made. ive siad this before. no one religion can claim all morality in life. tribes coexisted before christian and judaism beliefs. so where did this morality of 'lets not kill each other and work together' come from? and you act like all an atheist wants to do is rape and that they get pleasure out of that? no. stop being retarded and stop being a sheep
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "a morally correct person by our own views!"
There is no definition of morality without God, only the changing morality of man. Therefore anyone more powerful and influential than you can trump your moral codes and insert there own and you have no say in the matter because you have no point of reference for your own belief of morality.
@OzInfoWarrior and morality can be defined by the general perception. the majority of the world supports the view that killing is wrong etc. you dont have to be a christian to see that! you didnt acknowledge what i said about morality being formed before christianity and judaism (morality that is supported in your bible). it is man made. for those that dont share the mainstream view, that is why we have laws in place.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "and morality can be defined by the general perception. the majority of the world supports the view that killing is wrong etc."
Hahahaha, checkmate.
And when morality defined by the "general perception" is social engineered by the powers that be...and they choose to social engineer that paedophilia is OK or all blacks should be sterilized and wiped out... you will accept it? That's WHY God is the only thing that stops that from happening.
@OzInfoWarrior when you hear on the news that people have died in a flood, you feel sad for them. why? because of human compassion and decency. that is where 'i wont hurt you if you dont hurt me' stems from. we all have a common (not exact) perception of what is right and wrong, by means of rational thought and by empathy. by thinking that if i go around being a dick to everyone, then theres a good chance people will be a dick back. christianity does not claim all morality.therefore its man made
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "we all have a common (not exact) perception of what is right and wrong, by means of rational thought and by empathy."
Insane people don't. Charles Manson proves your argument wrong.
A few years back people stepped over and walked around a stabbed woman needing help and a few stopped and took pictures and walked off and she later died. There have been many instances like that. Western Civilization has rapidly lost empathy and is increasingly self-centred. Godless...
@OzInfoWarrior you clearly just took part of my response without reading the entirety. i said the MAJORITY fell the same way more or less. insane people are an anomally. that is why we have laws! you dont judge an insane christian who kills people and say that he is christian and thats why he does what he does. you must disregard mentally challenged. dont pick parts of my argument.
@OzInfoWarrior no i never said that we have laws just for the insane. im saying that the large majority of people have a common sense of decency towards each other. yes people will dislike each other-thats why we have laws. im saying for those who cannot see this way of life/choose to disregard it are met by the extent of the law. people however do share a comon basis that we can thrive if we coexist.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "yes people will dislike each other-thats why we have laws."
No, again you're wrong. We have laws to protect ourselves from eachother, not because people "dislike" eachother. A lot of crime is committed with no hate for the other person.
@OzInfoWarrior when i say thats why we have laws, im not putting down to one reason. im saying we have laws for those who CHOOSE TO DISREGARD THEM. so that motive can be anything. stop picking at every word I say.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Why do atheists conduct their lives under the Judeo-Christian laws? Is it not survival of the fittest? Are you not the weak atheist if you don't lie, cheat, and steal to get further ahead & the most happiness out of life?
And when morality defined by the "general perception" is social engineered by the powers that be...and they choose to social engineer that paedophilia is OK or all blacks should be sterilized and wiped out... you will accept it?
@OzInfoWarrior not all atheists live under judeo christion laws. if you look at atheists in china, they do not follow the bible. the bible cannot claim morality. atheists arent just in the west. like my question that you have still failed it answer. if societies coexisted before judaism and christianity, then how did people survive if not for man made morals? are you saying that before then, no tribe of people were ever moral towards each other?
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "not all atheists live under judeo christion laws."
Of course not. You cherry pick rather than address the argument put forth. I was talking about our Western Civilization but you want to play games rather than answer. I know the answer. You would be regarded as a "weak atheist" by stronger believers in survival of the fittest and they have every right to do whatever they want to you, because it's how the species evolves with their better genes, is it not?
@OzInfoWarrior how am i regarded as a weak atheist? you think that atheists do whatever they want to get ahead in life with no regard for others? thats wrong. its not a survival of the fittest world we live in any more. (when i say that, yes you have to try hard to succeed but that doesnt mean if i dont at every oppurtinity disregard other to advance myself, then ill die out). that is wrong. in this day and age, one can succeed without being the best.
@OzInfoWarrior "in survival of the fittest and they have every right to do whatever they want to you, because it's how the species evolves with their better genes, is it not?"
-thats stupid. genes have nothing to do with survival of the fittest. if thats your undersanding of evolution then you need to pick up a book. evolution occurs over millions of years. there is no such thing as 'better genes'.
@OzInfoWarrior and on your view of the general peception, no i would still be against pedophilla etc. my argument is not valid under the hypothetical situation that the entire world turns racist etc. my argument is one that relates to the age we live in-the age of reason. and let me ask yu one more question. what do you believe regarding the dinosaurs? do you believe there bones are to test us? or that carbon dating is wrong and that they lived withing 6000 years?
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "and on your view of the general peception, no i would still be against pedophilla etc."
You're too short sighted. Why would you be against something society believes is morally acceptable? Society trumps what you think is morally right without God.
@OzInfoWarrior because if you believe that carbon dating (and all other methods of dating) are wrong, then that is just like your argument about biology. that is wrong, that is naive. you cannot discredit whole fields of study because of your faith. that is just irrational. yes dating isnt accurate 100% of the time-but it is still very effective. again, its not just some big conspiracy. please wake up and use your mind!
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "tribes coexisted before christian and judaism beliefs. so where did this morality of 'lets not kill each other and work together' come from?"
The concept of God has been around since the dawn of man.
Now answer my question. Why do atheists conduct their lives under the Judeo-Christian laws? Is it not survival of the fittest? Are you not the weak atheist if you don't lie, cheat, and steal to get further ahead & the most happiness out of life?
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Geographic location and his envrionment play a role but lots of Hindu's have become Christians, so have Muslims. For example, there are Christians from India, as with Palestinian Christians in the middle-east.
@OzInfoWarrior i know there are but the majority arent! it is there culture! stop picking the exceptions and look at the bigger picture. the majority of the world isnt christian. the majority of the world is going to hell. and christianity cant claim all morality in the world. societies coexisted before christianity and even judaism. how did they coexist if not for human created morals? look at china. they had a pretty good society and did it without christianity. god doesnt give morality.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "how did they coexist if not for human created morals?"
The concept of God has always appeared amongst men from the very beginning. But as an atheist, you would push that further back to "cave man" and so on to try to prove your point.
"look at china. they had a pretty good society and did it without christianity."
And where are they now? A godless, drone-like people, whose God is money and the State crushes any resistance. Success story??
@OzInfoWarrior My reply was too long for Youtube. I've sent the reply via personal message. If anyone else would like to hear the answers to OzInfoWarrior's questions asking 'how do atheists cope?', feel free to message me. :)
Ravi is like a used car salesman. He talks and talks but never backs up his claims with any evidence or reasoning. Very telling. He obviously doesn't know the meaning of the word atheist.
@Ozzyman200 I'm sure you would like to believe that, but it's simply not true. I've seen him back up his beliefs with reason on multiple occasions and your saying he doesn't, shows just how ignorent you are of his work.
Ah, calling someone 'ignorent' because you can't prove them wrong. Very Ravi.
It is true as you would know if you watched his videos for yourself. He certainly claims to, but can you give evidence to back up your claim? He can't.
@TheHonestTheist@TheHonestTheist Here here! It's so unfortunately the case that we human beings in our nature are so predisposed to failing to notice something which destroys our world view, even if this something is truth.
Norman Mailer said " There is something wrong in the world, a force that sets it's will against us. Even within ourselves when we are silent with ourselves, we can sense within our own minds a seperation, an " I " observing " me. " If the embodiment of evil were to exist in the world, it would take the form of something unoticed within us. It would not reveal itself as anything that we can tell demonstrate, or be told by others, but would instead speak to us in our own voice. "
@OzInfoWarrior 9/11 is certainly suspicious. it was definitely the catalyst for two illegal wars Iraq and Afghanistan. there is definitely an financial oligarchy controlling the world. and we must find away to resolve this problem.
@someoneupload The only way you can resolve the problem of this global elite & where it's heading (world government, RFID chipped humans, de-population) is to bow down to God & accept Jesus as your saviour. All that is to happen we cannot stop. "for I am God..yea, I have spoken it I will also bring it to pass; I have proposed it, I will also do it"
The game is already in the bag. False hope isn't going to help anyone. The end days of the end times is fast approaching -Jews are back in homeland.
@OzInfoWarrior Why did Kent Hovind get jailed? Cause he broke the law! Silly question. There is no conspiracy here, which is what you are implying, which is quite frankly, very silly.
@TheHonestTheist Who makes the laws? The very same people Hovind was speaking out against. Understand how the system works before you say someone deserves to go to jail for a victimless crime.
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."
@OzInfoWarrior What are you trying to say, the occult made a law so they could jail Kent? Kent failed to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's", it's his own fault he went to jail, there is no conspiracy, there was no law created to jail him. You commit fraud, you goto jail, not because you preach against the occult, but because you broke the law! This conspiracy stuff is non-sensical rubbish, devoid of all logic, using an everything-is-the-occult view of reality.
@OzInfoWarrior I am astounded that a comment like this can recieve 10 thumbs up by bringing forward the idea of some murky conspiracy theory. But I decided to humor you and "ask myself" how you connect your conspiracy (be it real or not) to the veracity of the Bible? Dan Brown for instance wrote at least two books which concentrate on a religious conspiracy theory and yet he does not believe in the majorty of what the Bible says. This is just an example.
@bobivd6688 So tell me why the occult and secret society researchers who are atheists are allowed to flourish in their works and hold grand presentations?
ie David Icke, Michael Tsarion, Jordan Maxwell, Peter Joseph, David Wilcock and on and on.
The Christian researchers were taken out and replaced to guide people away from the Christian solution - salvation in Jesus Christ, and him alone.
@OzInfoWarrior You did not answer my question. I said I will humor you and accept the idea of a conspiracy plausible. However there is absolutely no connection between this and the veracity of the Bible. Listen to yourself for one second - there is an anti-christian conspiracy so God must be real? What about all the shady things that have been done throughout history in the name of God and christinaty? Do they disprove God by your logic?
@bobivd6688 You didn't answer my question of why atheists are allowed to flourish in their work but Christians are locked up and murdered.
You're not a Christian, therefore why would you spend time identifying the anti-Christian/God agenda that is prevalent throughout the media, radio, movies and TV? You wouldn't see it because it doesn't effect you.
Why would the elite bother about jailing and murdering Christian researchers if the Bible wasn't true?
@OzInfoWarrior Eeveryone likes to get the minority simpathy vote. Christians jailed and murdered and atheists thriving? Have you studied history? Religion and christianity in particular is the most privileged teaching in the history of the world. No one is going to get offended if you make a joke about evolution but if I dare joke with the almighty God of yours it means I'm a horrible person who's going to Hell so don't pretend for a second to be the oppressed minority.
@bobivd6688 Why are you arguing your point by referencing history? How many occult and secret society researchers way back in history can you name? This is a modern argument so your point is completely void.
No one would get offended about someone making a joke about evolution because there's nothing sacred about it. There's no laws, no morality, nothing, it's an empty belief system. Another void argument.
@OzInfoWarrior My point is completely valid since I was demonstrating the priviliged position of religion in our lives and history proves that easily. I will withdraw my comment on evolution vs God since it was meant as a joke to begin with.
@bobivd6688 "If I recall God's second coming was supposed to come to pass under the rule of the Roman Empire."
There are certain prophecies that need to come to pass before he returns. When the New Age Religion makes it's mark at the end of 2012 and Christians are accused of holding back humanity from progressing, you'll see the hatred of us that the Book of Revelation foretells. Christians won't accept the belief that there are many ways to God, so we will be vilified.
@bobivd6688 The Bible predicts the future. 30% or more of the Bible is propechy. If you had actually studied it you would know this. That's the proof the Bible is the word of God because it's telling you things that are going to happen before they do. No other book does that with 100% accuracy.
They hate Christians because the Bible has foretold the elite's plan of world government and identifies what is to come and so they have to have a massive campaign to ridicule it.
@OzInfoWarrior As for your prophecies coming true - name one that is clear cut and has actually come true. If I recall God's second coming was supposed to come to pass under the rule of the Roman Empire. Maybe you'll throw Daniel's prophecy at me because I haven't "studied the Bible enough".
@bobivd6688 So you just admitted you haven't studied the Bible. So why argue with me when you haven't even done the research? Pointless.
The Book of Daniel -> Alexander the Great. The prophecy written centuries before was a great empire would rule and then be divided into 4. Those 4 then merge into 2. Those 2 then merge into 1. What happened in history? Exactly what he said would happen.
@OzInfoWarrior I haven't studied the Bible... That's what you got from my comment... I commend you on your deep understanding of sarcasm. Extraordinary prophecies? You should do a little more research into the Book of Daniel - when it was most likely written for example. Also there's nothing clear cut about it - it's competely speculative. Winston Churchill said in 1919 that the world is going to take a 20 year break from war, is he a prophet?
@bobivd6688 The age old argument you only have, that the Book of Daniel was written after the event. That's your stance? Pathetic.
We'll get nowhere here so leave that. What about the Wandering Jews returning to Israel? Wandering Jews who were kicked out and persecuted country after country after country after country. Everyone would have laughed in your face at such an assertion before WWII. Yet it came true, or was that written after the event too?
@OzInfoWarrior No that's not the only arument. Evangelists claim that the fourth kingdom from Book of Daniel is Rome because it's more convenient for them while it makes a lot more sense that the fourth kingdom is Ancient Greece but that would mess with your prophecy ideas. This is just one example of prophecies being interpreted wrongly just to suit your needs. As for your wandering jews - of course they returned to Israel - it's what the Bible told them to strive for.
"Postmodernism was at the Garden of Eden when Adam & Eve said, "has God really said". What did postmodernism do? It questioned propositional truth. Does a statement really mean what it says or do you fuse your own meaning into any statement? So postmodernism questioned verbal authority. That's where it all began. You don't leave the authority with the author, the authority goes to the reader."
@bobivd6688 ...So you can read a book & you become sovereign over the author. That's exactly what happened at the Garden of Eden, they wanted to play as God."
- Ravi Zacharias
"As for your wandering jews - of course they returned to Israel"
Of course? ... That really shows you know nothing of history if you think "of course Jews would get their homeland back". That's an amazing statement.
@OzInfoWarrior I love it when someone quotes half of my sentence to make their point. Great debating skills. My point was and still is that it is not prophecy fulfillment when there are people striving towards the actual fulfillment. It's not prophecy fulfillment when the old testament says something will occur and then it "comes true" in the new testament. It's not prophecy fulfillment when it's a likely event with no time limit. It's not prophecy fulfillment when it's written after the event.
@OzInfoWarrior There are no clear-cut prophecies. They're all speculative and based on interpretations made so that they would appear fulfilled. Saying ten likely events will occur sometime in the future and then wait for a thousand (or more) years for one of them to occur is not prophecy. It's guessing. It's also not prophecy fulfillment when many people are working towards actually fulfilling it.
"Saying ten likely events will occur sometime in the future"
Over 30% of the Bible is prophecy. List all the prophecies that were wrong that have come to pass? The Bible isn't Nostradamus, it's clear. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies of the Old Testament and many written centuries before the messiah appeared.
@OzInfoWarrior I dislike it when someone quotes half of my sentence and you did so twice so let me explain - I used the number ten just as an example, I know the Bible contains more than ten prophecies. A fulfilled clear-cut prophecy would be a historic fact, not something we have to interpret and "match" into history because we want to say it came true. I've listed everything that does not qualify as prophecy in my other comment, now think about your biblical prophecies carefully.
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
@OzInfoWarrior I'm sorry but that's a claim and nothing more. One book with questionable authors written and changed over the course of 1500 years is not really evidence. The only reason anyone would consider the Bible as evidence is if he has a preconception that that book is true and right. If those words help you that's fine - it doesn't make them true.
@OzInfoWarrior I'm sorry but that's a claim and nothing more. One book with questionable authors written and changed over the course of 1500 years is not really evidence. The only reason anyone would consider the Bible as evidence is if he has a preconception that that book is true and right. If those words help you that's fine - it doesn't make them true.
@bobivd6688 Messiah will be born of a virgin, born in Bethlehem, be a prophet, his ministry begins in Galilee, will perform miracles, will rise from the dead, will be betrayed by a friend, will die a violent death, and his hands and feet will be pierced.
Only one man that has ever lived has fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament. There can be no doubt that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.
@OzInfoWarrior the bible also says the earth i flat and alludes to being approximately 6000 years old. if it really was translated from god himself then a few things: either god didnt commune his word very effectively, or he chose the wrong people to copy it down. i dont care how many prophecies came true, many prophecies also didnt come true. you cant pick and choose what to follow
@OzInfoWarrior i dont care how many came true because if it is the word of god then it should all be true, otherwise god is wrong and therefore not omnipetant.
saiah predicts that five cities in Egypt will undergo a language conversion to the Canaanite tongue (19:18)
Isaiah just a few verses later foretells of an alliance between Israel, Egypt and Assyria (19:23-25).
jeremiah informs us that God will smite all the Israelites migrating into Egypt (42:15-18)
@OzInfoWarrior i dont care how similar the books are, they re not historically accurate. they re not believable. they do not prove god's existence. they re fictitious stories. and how can you say my life is not meaningful? we are just a tiny dot in the universe. our actions have no effect except to ourselves and that is where i get my meaning out of life. i think i have one so im going to spend it wisely. im not looking forward to an afterlife.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "they re not historically accurate." - Yes, they are.
"they re not believable" - Your bias opinion.
"they do not prove god's existence" - Your bias opinion.
"and how can you say my life is not meaningful?"
Explain to me the meaning of life.
"im not looking forward to an afterlife."
And when you die and you're confronted by God, what will you say? Bertrand Russell answered this question by saying "you didn't give us enough evidence". Really?
@OzInfoWarrior no he gives us a several thousand year old book, which has been disproven in many areas in terms of certain claims, geographic areas and historical events. he gives us a book that illustrates his own evil as he orders multiple genocides, says slavery is ok and forces incest. and you wonder why i dont believe? if you truly read the bible, you would see how evil he really is. and ive asked for 1 piece of evidence that the christian god exists and you ve failed to provide it.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "and ive asked for 1 piece of evidence that the christian god exists and you ve failed to provide it."
- Jesus' resurrection. Everyone agreed the tomb was empty.
- Skeptics who didn't believe Jesus when he was alive, but days later changed that belief after he appeared to them & went to martyr's death for that belief.
- Jesus' desciples cowardly denied knowing Jesus after his death, but then days later drastically changed their belief and some went to martyr's death.
@OzInfoWarrior just because i dont know the meaning of life, it doesnt mean i have to be a sheep and follow and evil book. if it were the word of god, then why is there a lot of crap in there that just isnt true? either he did a shitty job in relaying his message to us, or he chose the wrong people to copy his word down.
@OzInfoWarrior On the note of Western Civilization rapidly losing it's empathy & it's increasingly self-centredness, I'll leave you with Ravi Zacharias (of this video):
"Hobart Mowrer went to his grave a skeptic. He taught at John Hopkins. He taught at Harvard. Committed suicide at the age of 75. But he wrote in Psychology Today sometime in the 70's, "you know when we did away with sin we lost our definition of ourselves." That's a skeptic saying that. We'd lost who we were."
@OzInfoWarrior just because he is a skeptic, doesnt mean he speaks for me or atheists alike. hat is why im telling you to stop quoting random people. it is their opinion. its not my view. its not your view. its not atheists view. its not a religious view. it is personal. and what do you know. you didnt address the part where i said that christianity cant claim all morality. so where did it come from.. i wonder why you didnt address that. morality is man made.
@OzInfoWarrior evolution is taught in schools because it is proven fact. dont say its just a theory because then you dont know its definiton with regards to science. gravity is a theory. it has been proven. why do you think 98% of all biology teachers believe in evolution? they know more about it than you do.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "evolution is taught in schools because it is proven fact."
No, it's not. It's a theory. If you don't understand what school is truly about I feel sorry for you. Where is schooling back in history? You were taught at home. School is all about conforming & molding the minds of the masses on how to think without questioning your reality, & regurgitate from the teachers taught by Uni so they know who the better drones are for the positions of influence within society.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "why do you think 98% of all biology teachers believe in evolution?"
Void point.
They grew up through the brainwashing of school and the media on Darwinism. Not to mention the major universities are ruled by atheists, including the funding, ie they will make it extremely hard for you to get anywhere believing in God. Hence, why would religious people study biology when it's a field ruled by & for the Godless.
@OzInfoWarrior "They grew up through the brainwashing of school and the media on Darwinism."
wow you re actually retarded. firstly atheism has nothing to do with evolution. that is just a common view. you talk like its one big conspiracy. there would be no atheistic view if there wasnt some semblance of facts to support it. its not like everyone knows evolution is wrong yet they troll for the sake of being trolls. they know more than you do about it.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "you idiot" "wow you re actually retarded."
Including ad hominem attacks in your arguments indicates you are being emotional in your replies rather than arguing with reason. Being disrespectful has ended this discussion. Learn to argue without infusing emotion.
@OzInfoWarrior naturally when my opposition makes a stupid remark, then that will evocate some emotion from me. by labelling an argument as stupid, maybe i hope for you to realise and look at what you re saying.
@OzInfoWarrior and once again, i draw attention to the fact that you again did not answer my question about where morality came from before the judaic religion. i asked a long time ago how tribes coexisted. you still have failed to answer it because you choose to ignore it because you have no answer. i try to address everything you say. i also asked for one piece of evidence and you didnt provide one. you simply attacked evolution and said if you have faith then you will see.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Including ad hominem attacks in your arguments indicates you are being emotional in your replies rather than arguing with reason. Being disrespectful has ended this discussion. Learn to argue without infusing emotion.
@OzInfoWarrior besides darwinism is just the basis of the idea. it has been refined constantly as technology advances and we learn more. that is why very little of darwinism is followed in the modern concept of evolution.
"why would religious people study biology when it's a field ruled by & for the Godless"
-that is one of the stupidest things ive heard. just because you dont understand it and your little book says otherwise, doesnt mean the whole field of study is wrong. you are wrong
@GOOdGuyGreg1 If you remove the Creator, then you remove your rights as a human, because they are no longer endowed to you, they are privileges granted by whim of governmental decree. That's a huge difference. I understand WHY men want to insist they're nothing more than animals, most usually so they can behave like them in matters of violence, language and fornication.
@OzInfoWarrior we humans are animals. you cannot deny that. we re a part of nature. we behave in many ways just like animals. you say that we want to be deemed as animals so we can behave like them in matters of violence etc? so your e saying thats the reason why we claim to be animals? so violence can be more socially acceptable? no. please think about what you re saying. you have not put forth a good argument yet.
@OzInfoWarrior YOU are nuts. The budhists have no god. Would you claim that they behave badly, fornicate, are violent, because they acknowledge no god ? They are most probably the most peaceful people on earth.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 But that so-called freedom (actually slavery) soon becomes their death-nell when the overlords extend their animal like control over their beasts of burden. In other words, there's not much fornicating going on in the slaughter house.
@OzInfoWarrior evolution is taught in schools because it is proven fact. dont say its just a theory because then you dont know its definiton with regards to science. gravity is a theory. it has been proven. why do you think 98% of all biology teachers believe in evolution? they know more about it than you do.
1) it is not even certain the jesus was killed. the quran says that jesus wasnt killed. and if he was seen to have risen three days later, doesnt that suggest that maybe the muslims have it right?
2)i dont believe because i cant see if jesus did perform miracles/ its 2000 years later and all i have to go by it is a book which is wrong in many areas.
3)that is not evidence that god exists! people changed their minds! i dont care. i want evidence. there is none
@GOOdGuyGreg1@GOOdGuyGreg1 1) "it is not even certain the jesus was killed" By that statement alone, you're challenging the "99.6% accuracy" of the New Testament, by saying no one went to martyr's death, as why would they if he didn't die? No Skeptics, Paul, Jesus' half brother James, all of it never happened. Nothing happened in Rome after Jesus' death?
2) So why didn't anyone disagree with the fact that the disciples & skeptics radically changed their minds when it was written?
@OzInfoWarrior why did all the people believe back then? because people were stupid back then! like i said, they were in one of the worst parts of the world and were all illiterate who believed that sickness and natural disasters were gods will. we know better now. and yes they do contradict each other. going off memory-mathew and john dont agree on who josephs father was. there are other-i cant remember
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "why did all the people believe back then? because people were stupid back then!'
Are you joking? You really have no idea about anything. Honestly. Western Civilization is incredibly dumbed down. 200+ years ago children were reading books we as adults would struggle to understand now. It speaks volumes about your ego and why you're an atheist, claming to be so much smarter with absolutely no proof your brain is better than those before you.
@OzInfoWarrior you idiot im not talking about 200 years ago, im talking 20000 years ago. they were incredibly stupid-especially in the parts mentioned in the bible. they were iliterate. now science is disproving parts of the bible, that is why there is a steady rise in atheism.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 They appear to contradict eachother, but they don't. Age old lie you atheists continue to parrot without research.
"they were in one of the worst parts of the world & were all illiterate who believed that sickness & natural disasters were gods will. we know better now"
Really? So is that why, now, we believe in this whole idea of going through "teenage years". No such thing in history. You were a child, then you became an adult. Society is dumber now.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 3) Psychology studies tell us people don't go from being cowards and denying to willing to die for a belief they don't believe or know to be false. Doesn't happen and you can't explain that so you deny it happened.
@OzInfoWarrior ok first stop quoting random people on random points. i can do the same from atheists and you wouldnt agree with what they re saying. ill do one and you ll see what i mean: "in dark ages people are best guided by religion, as in a pitch black night a blind man is the best guide; he knows the roads and paths better than a man that can see. when daylight comes however, it is foolish to use blind old men as guides." - Heinrich Heine
@OzInfoWarrior that illustrates that religion was good in a time when people thought diseases and natural disasters were just gods wrath. where we thought we were so special that the earth was the centre of the universe and the sun revolved around it. but now as we learn more, it is only logical that religion step aside from being the teacher and we start thinking with reason and logic.
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Atheists always claim "reason and logic" but what advancements in science has the next leading world power, the godless Chinese scientists come up with? Nothing.
History's great scientists, like the person who held Hawking's chair, Sir Isaac Newton, their motivation for doing their science was actually faith in the creator.
"Men became scientific because they expected laws of nature and they expected laws of nature because they believed in a creator."
@OzInfoWarrior i keep telling you to stop quoting people otherwise ill do the same and we wont get anywhere. quotes are just other peoples opinions. think for yourself. No i cannot possibly explain the meaning of life. that doesnt mean my life isnt meaningful. the bible claims that noah built an arc and the world flooded. you honestly think that is historically accurate. that is a fable and a childish one at that. the world didnt flood. he couldnt have fit that many animals on the arc.
@OzInfoWarrior water is constant. it doesnt disappear. it only changes state i.e. solid, liquid, gas. that means that a global flood is impossible as there is not enough water on earth now to flood the entire earth. he would have had to have fit 10 million animals on his arc. you say its historically accurate? you say its believable. and yes betrand russel is right. why couldnt god give us more evience? whats so wrong about that?
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Yes, no other ancient text has the historical accuracy as the Bible does.
Betrand Russell believed there wasn't enough evidence because his world view was bias in favour of the law of Do What Thou Wilt. He wouldn't believe in the one thing God asks you to do, and that is to have FAITH in God. Betrand Russell also longed for love. God was right there, but he didn't hear, nor see, nor understand.
God has given you enough evidence. You only refuse to acknowledge it.
@OzInfoWarrior Ezekiel prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy the city of Tyre (26). He goes on to tell Tyre that they will never be rebuilt. Yet later we learn that Nebuchadnezzar was unsuccessful in the raid of Tyre (29:18). Alexander the Great conquered Tyre hundreds of years later. It was then rebuilt, contrary to Ezekiel 26:14.
If I want an intelligent discussion about religion, I talk to my friends. I'm atheist, my friends are Christian, and we have great discussions.
But the second you step on the internet and start discussing religion... holy shit. Every Christian looks like a moron and every atheist looks like an asshole. I'll keep out of this.
nextpkfr 2 weeks ago
@nextpkfr Can I ask a few serious questions?
1. How do you cope with no meaning to your existence?
2. How do you cope with no hope?
3. How do you cope with no justice? For example if a paedophile raped many children, but when he died he was glorified in history books and honoured by society, your belief is he gets away with his crimes with no divine judgement? How do you cope with that?
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior 1) just because there is no place to go after you die, and just because theres no set of guidlines for you to forcefully follow or else, doesnt mean our existence has no meaning. i think my existence has meaning to me. it may not affect the entire galaxy, but the universe is huge. there are hundreds of billions of galaxies and in ours alone, there is a sun that is 22000 times the size of our planet. i dont think my actions affect the universe. it doesnt mean it is purposeless
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Your existence has no meaning without God. You're born, sometimes you breed, you die. No meaning. You only fool yourself into believing your life has meaning because without meaning you realize your position as an atheist is not meaningfull at all.
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior 2) how do i cope with no hope in a tyrannical evil dictator who watches everything i do and judges me for it accordingly to a contradictory book written over 2000 years ago by people in an illiterate country who thought that diseases and natural disasters were gods wrath. its easy mate. im not afraid of death. i think we have one life. so im going to spend it the best way i possibly can. i dont need hope that there is a god to be happy.
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 God isn't a dictator. He gave man freewill so you could choose to love him or not. That's why evil exists, because God allows freewill. He doesn't force you to love him. The Bible is not full of contradictions. That's an amateur Atheist argument card that is played over and over by those who believe in the law Do What Thou Wilt.
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior god isnt a dictator? yes you have free will but that doesnt mean he isnt a dictator. do you have any influence over the criteria to get in eaven? do you have any say as to who can get in/ when in heaven what it should be like? if your family member went to hell and you were in heaven, you d know that your family member is suffering an eternity and god has the ability to prevent it yet chooses not to. how is that no a dictatorship? what he says goes. you are just a minion.
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 so because God is a "dictator" as you say it, and he has set some rules for you to get into heaven, your response is to reject him? go ahead, but the rules wont disappear just because you "dont believe". the time of reckoning will come and each person will have to answer.
TheZimstar 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 How can you have complete free will to do whatever you want, believe whatever you want and say whatever you want and still call the person who gave you that free will a dictator? All of man is born of the original sin, therefore we all fall short of the standard of God. Muslims believe we don't have original sin, so they have to explain why none of us is perfect.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior none of us are perfect because our perceptions of perfection differ. telling children that we re all born into sin without having actually knowingly done anything is just wrong. yes i have the ability to do whatever i want. but in terms of death and an 'afterlife', i have no say. i have no say who makes it to heaven, what the criteria are for. you cant see how that is a dictator? what he says goes. its that simple. what if he wasnt 'benevolent'? are you kidding me?
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 It's really hard to follow what you're saying, because you have such a skewed, western civilization understanding of the God of the Bible.
Why do you believe it's your right to have any power over who enters heaven?
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1
Your ideology is simple. You want to do what you want and you don't want any restrictions on your actions or be held accountable for your life. Aldous Huxley was the same, though he didn't believe in the Darwinian idea because there was enormous evidence for it, but because "I chose to believe it because it delivered me from trying to find meaning and freed me to my own erotic passions."
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior no that is not why im an atheist. im not an atheist because that means i can do what i want. im an atheist because there is no evidence that a) a god exists, b) that if there was a god, he would have any interaction with us, let alone just humans. c) that the christian interpretation of god is accurate. you just think what all other religious folk do-that you ve got it right and everyone else is wrong.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
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OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
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@GOOdGuyGreg1 There is evidence God exists. The Big Bang Theory fits perfectly with the creation in Genesis. You choose not to believe it. You would rather have FAITH that everything came from NOTHING. That's why I'm not an atheist because it's funny that people actually think something came from nothing.
The Bible explains all the questions of life, and has the historical accuracy to prove it's the word of God through PROPHECY. No other anicent book does what the Bible does.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 God is the only one who is perfect and God has given you his son as the sacrifice for us to be able to be worthy in his sight.
Only God can choose who gets into heaven and that is only through his son. I love God more than anyone in my family. I'm sure most of my family will go to hell but that was their choice. I don't feel bad about that. God has given them the chance, who am I to say they should be saved, I don't know their thoughts nor all their actions.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior there you go. that is one of the most horendous things ive ever heard. "I love god more than anyone in my family. im sure most of them will go to hell but thats their choice. i dont feel bad about that". i used to think you were simply misguided. now i know what a terrible person you really are. for you to be ok with someone suffering for an eternity is just evil. you are mindless, youre just a sick excuse for a human being.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
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@GOOdGuyGreg1 "that is one of the most horendous things ive ever heard."
See, you don't understand the concept of God, at all. God is to be loved above all else. Why would I love anyone, even my own child more than God? Why would I love a sinner more than God?
"for you to be ok with someone suffering for an eternity is just evil."
I'm not happy about it, but that's God's punishment for denying him.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1
"now i know what a terrible person you really are. . youre just a sick excuse for a human being."
Notice, how as a Christian, I can't judge you, yet you being an atheist believe you have the right to judge me. Atheists have no moral compass for the distinction between right and wrong. Thank you for being a perfect example of that point.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior yet you cannot provide evidence. you go by an inaccurate book written over 2000 years ago by different authors who were goat herders and that contradict each other many times, in one of the most illiterate places on earth and introduce a religion that is biased towards people in certain georgraphic locations and cultures and threatens a penalty that does not acknowledge this bias.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 All your arguments are age old atheist remarks that have been demolished time and time again. It gets so tedious hearing the same crap, "that contradict each other many times". What books on this subject did you read? or who have you been following without doing the research?
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior don't act like you dont judge. everybody does. when you hear of a child molester you judge him dont you? and yes i can judge you. i judge a man who is ok with the fact that his family members are going to be tortured for an eternity yet still worships the being who could prevent this, simply if he made himself more clear. you do it because you re scared. you didnt answer my question regarding a lack of heaven or hell. you need to grow up and learn some compassion
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Of course I judge from time to time because it's human nature and I fall short from the glory of God's perfection. The difference is I don't go out of my way to express my judgement to attack a person like you do. You think it's morally acceptable, I don't. I have standing to back up my position, you don't.
I have more compassion than you. You believe it's acceptable to judge someone on their beliefs. Should I have expected anything different from an atheist?
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior i judge someones beliefs because if they re as outlandish as yours where you feel little or no compassion for your family members despite them possibly going to hell. yes that is more acceptable. you judge just like i do. whether i voice it or not is entirely different. i voice it because i know that a human being who is ok with a fellow human being tortured for an eternity as harmful to the human race. that is why religion is a disease. faith is fine. religion is evil
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Regardless of how outlandish a person's belief is, you have no right to judge them.
"i voice it because i know that a human being who is ok with a fellow human being tortured for an eternity as harmful to the human race."
It's God's condemnation, not mine. You're accusing me for not having an emotional response over something I have no control over and because I'm not swimming in sorrow like you expect me to be.
OzInfoWarrior 6 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior "its gods condemnation, not mine". yes but if you accept that then you agree with that. if not then that just proves again that god is a dictator. and yes i voice my opinions where need be. if someone (heres an extreme case) goes around trying to promote child rape, then not only will i judge them, but ill also speak out against it. i dont care if the bible supports/opposes it. that is my belief. if the bible did support it, would you? hypothetically here.
GOOdGuyGreg1 6 days ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 It's not a dictatorship because God has given you the free will to choose to either follow him or not. He doesn't force you to love him, because as soon as it's forced, it's not love.
"what he says goes."
Absolutely. He created the universe and man.
"you are just a minion."
Man was created in God's image, the image of the creator of the universe.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1
If there is no God, then we're all trapped in a world filled with senseless and unredeemable suffering with absolutely no hope of deliverance from evil...
Can I ask what fulfills you and gives you happiness that lasts?
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior what gives me happiness? not a god thats for sure. im happy from being with family and friends. im happy playing sport; by going on holidays, to different countries, thrill seeking like skydiving. im a happy person and i dont need the belief in an evil god to maker me so. the world we live in is as good as the people. you say this world is evil? if I asked you if i deserved to go to hell what would you say? if yes then you re evil. if no then god is a dictator
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "if I asked you if i deserved to go to hell what would you say? if yes then you re evil. if no then god is a dictator"
Who am I to judge? Only God can do what you have asked.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior i asked for your opinion about whether i should go to hell. yes you may not be right but guess what mate, you do have an opinion! i know its weird isnt it? do you think i deserve to go to hell?
and one more question: what if there was no heaven and hell?.. but god said he still wants to to be a christian and worship him and he has absolutely no intervention at all. would you still go to church, repent your sins, pray etc?
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
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OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
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@GOOdGuyGreg1 "do you think i deserve to go to hell?"
Once again, I cannot judge you. God is the only one who can pass judgement on you in regards to that question.
"what if there was no heaven and hell?" "would you still go to church, repent your sins, pray etc?"
If there was no hell, why would there be sins?
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior 3) in response to your question, i propose a counter question. in your religion, if someone commits a murder, if they 'find god' they can be 'saved' and still go to heaven. now wheres the justice in that where a morally decent human being, lets say a hindu, were to lead a good and just life, but then be damned to an eternity of suffering simply because of his geographic location and his envrionment brought up in? because he was raised in a hindu family.
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Interesting that you couldn't answer my question of no real justice in your world view. Yes, if someone commits murder and then later falls into the arms of Jesus, and God acknowledges that he is sincere in his repentance, yes he will enter heaven. Yes, a Hindu or atheist who leads a morally good life, within their own eyes, but not of God's, will not enter heaven, because the person rejected Jesus as the only way to the Father. The justice is clear in this.
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior the justice is clear? a morally correct person suffers for an eternity because of where they were born and the environment that they were brought up in. yep that sounds like justice to me. and by your logic, why dont atheists go round killing people when they re old and about to die? because we have whats called human decency towards one another and compassion. why do atheists have an incredibly low crime rate per capita? why do they have less suicides?
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "A morally correct person" in who's eyes? By what definition of having good morals can you reference without God?
"why dont atheists go round killing people when they re old & about to die?"
That's an extreme question. My question would be, why do atheists conduct their lives under the Judeo-Christian laws? Is it not survival of the fittest? Are you not the weak atheist if you don't lie, rape, cheat, and steal to get further ahead & the most happiness out of life?
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior a morally correct person by our own views! you do have an opinion. stop being a sheep. and all morals are man made. ive siad this before. no one religion can claim all morality in life. tribes coexisted before christian and judaism beliefs. so where did this morality of 'lets not kill each other and work together' come from? and you act like all an atheist wants to do is rape and that they get pleasure out of that? no. stop being retarded and stop being a sheep
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "a morally correct person by our own views!"
There is no definition of morality without God, only the changing morality of man. Therefore anyone more powerful and influential than you can trump your moral codes and insert there own and you have no say in the matter because you have no point of reference for your own belief of morality.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior and morality can be defined by the general perception. the majority of the world supports the view that killing is wrong etc. you dont have to be a christian to see that! you didnt acknowledge what i said about morality being formed before christianity and judaism (morality that is supported in your bible). it is man made. for those that dont share the mainstream view, that is why we have laws in place.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
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@GOOdGuyGreg1 "and morality can be defined by the general perception. the majority of the world supports the view that killing is wrong etc."
Hahahaha, checkmate.
And when morality defined by the "general perception" is social engineered by the powers that be...and they choose to social engineer that paedophilia is OK or all blacks should be sterilized and wiped out... you will accept it? That's WHY God is the only thing that stops that from happening.
Checkmate.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior when you hear on the news that people have died in a flood, you feel sad for them. why? because of human compassion and decency. that is where 'i wont hurt you if you dont hurt me' stems from. we all have a common (not exact) perception of what is right and wrong, by means of rational thought and by empathy. by thinking that if i go around being a dick to everyone, then theres a good chance people will be a dick back. christianity does not claim all morality.therefore its man made
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "we all have a common (not exact) perception of what is right and wrong, by means of rational thought and by empathy."
Insane people don't. Charles Manson proves your argument wrong.
A few years back people stepped over and walked around a stabbed woman needing help and a few stopped and took pictures and walked off and she later died. There have been many instances like that. Western Civilization has rapidly lost empathy and is increasingly self-centred. Godless...
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior you clearly just took part of my response without reading the entirety. i said the MAJORITY fell the same way more or less. insane people are an anomally. that is why we have laws! you dont judge an insane christian who kills people and say that he is christian and thats why he does what he does. you must disregard mentally challenged. dont pick parts of my argument.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "insane people are an anomally. that is why we have laws!"
No, we have laws to protect ourselves from eachother. Has nothing to do with being sane or insane.
OzInfoWarrior 6 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior no i never said that we have laws just for the insane. im saying that the large majority of people have a common sense of decency towards each other. yes people will dislike each other-thats why we have laws. im saying for those who cannot see this way of life/choose to disregard it are met by the extent of the law. people however do share a comon basis that we can thrive if we coexist.
GOOdGuyGreg1 6 days ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "yes people will dislike each other-thats why we have laws."
No, again you're wrong. We have laws to protect ourselves from eachother, not because people "dislike" eachother. A lot of crime is committed with no hate for the other person.
OzInfoWarrior 5 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior when i say thats why we have laws, im not putting down to one reason. im saying we have laws for those who CHOOSE TO DISREGARD THEM. so that motive can be anything. stop picking at every word I say.
GOOdGuyGreg1 4 days ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Why do atheists conduct their lives under the Judeo-Christian laws? Is it not survival of the fittest? Are you not the weak atheist if you don't lie, cheat, and steal to get further ahead & the most happiness out of life?
And when morality defined by the "general perception" is social engineered by the powers that be...and they choose to social engineer that paedophilia is OK or all blacks should be sterilized and wiped out... you will accept it?
OzInfoWarrior 6 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior not all atheists live under judeo christion laws. if you look at atheists in china, they do not follow the bible. the bible cannot claim morality. atheists arent just in the west. like my question that you have still failed it answer. if societies coexisted before judaism and christianity, then how did people survive if not for man made morals? are you saying that before then, no tribe of people were ever moral towards each other?
GOOdGuyGreg1 6 days ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "not all atheists live under judeo christion laws."
Of course not. You cherry pick rather than address the argument put forth. I was talking about our Western Civilization but you want to play games rather than answer. I know the answer. You would be regarded as a "weak atheist" by stronger believers in survival of the fittest and they have every right to do whatever they want to you, because it's how the species evolves with their better genes, is it not?
OzInfoWarrior 5 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior how am i regarded as a weak atheist? you think that atheists do whatever they want to get ahead in life with no regard for others? thats wrong. its not a survival of the fittest world we live in any more. (when i say that, yes you have to try hard to succeed but that doesnt mean if i dont at every oppurtinity disregard other to advance myself, then ill die out). that is wrong. in this day and age, one can succeed without being the best.
GOOdGuyGreg1 4 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior "in survival of the fittest and they have every right to do whatever they want to you, because it's how the species evolves with their better genes, is it not?"
-thats stupid. genes have nothing to do with survival of the fittest. if thats your undersanding of evolution then you need to pick up a book. evolution occurs over millions of years. there is no such thing as 'better genes'.
GOOdGuyGreg1 4 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior and on your view of the general peception, no i would still be against pedophilla etc. my argument is not valid under the hypothetical situation that the entire world turns racist etc. my argument is one that relates to the age we live in-the age of reason. and let me ask yu one more question. what do you believe regarding the dinosaurs? do you believe there bones are to test us? or that carbon dating is wrong and that they lived withing 6000 years?
GOOdGuyGreg1 6 days ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "and on your view of the general peception, no i would still be against pedophilla etc."
You're too short sighted. Why would you be against something society believes is morally acceptable? Society trumps what you think is morally right without God.
OzInfoWarrior 5 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior because if you believe that carbon dating (and all other methods of dating) are wrong, then that is just like your argument about biology. that is wrong, that is naive. you cannot discredit whole fields of study because of your faith. that is just irrational. yes dating isnt accurate 100% of the time-but it is still very effective. again, its not just some big conspiracy. please wake up and use your mind!
GOOdGuyGreg1 6 days ago
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OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
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@GOOdGuyGreg1 "tribes coexisted before christian and judaism beliefs. so where did this morality of 'lets not kill each other and work together' come from?"
The concept of God has been around since the dawn of man.
Now answer my question. Why do atheists conduct their lives under the Judeo-Christian laws? Is it not survival of the fittest? Are you not the weak atheist if you don't lie, cheat, and steal to get further ahead & the most happiness out of life?
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Geographic location and his envrionment play a role but lots of Hindu's have become Christians, so have Muslims. For example, there are Christians from India, as with Palestinian Christians in the middle-east.
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior i know there are but the majority arent! it is there culture! stop picking the exceptions and look at the bigger picture. the majority of the world isnt christian. the majority of the world is going to hell. and christianity cant claim all morality in the world. societies coexisted before christianity and even judaism. how did they coexist if not for human created morals? look at china. they had a pretty good society and did it without christianity. god doesnt give morality.
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
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@GOOdGuyGreg1 "how did they coexist if not for human created morals?"
The concept of God has always appeared amongst men from the very beginning. But as an atheist, you would push that further back to "cave man" and so on to try to prove your point.
"look at china. they had a pretty good society and did it without christianity."
And where are they now? A godless, drone-like people, whose God is money and the State crushes any resistance. Success story??
God does give morality.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior My reply was too long for Youtube. I've sent the reply via personal message. If anyone else would like to hear the answers to OzInfoWarrior's questions asking 'how do atheists cope?', feel free to message me. :)
nextpkfr 2 weeks ago
@nextpkfr Send to my inbox, thanks.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
God is Great.
esoflan 1 month ago
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I can't believe how many atheists have told me that they believe that matter could somehow create itself.
As I am sure that most of you know, matter can't create.
InternetDisciple 3 months ago
Christianity is true because christians get sent to jail???... holy bananas, I'll give you ten points for sheer chutzpah on that one.
beksinski 3 months ago
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@beksinski You missed the point. I said the "occult and secret society researchers who are Christians".
They are all jailed and/or murdered, yet the occult and secret society researchers who are atheists are allowed to flourish with their work.
OzInfoWarrior 2 months ago
Ravi is like a used car salesman. He talks and talks but never backs up his claims with any evidence or reasoning. Very telling. He obviously doesn't know the meaning of the word atheist.
Ozzyman200 3 months ago
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@Ozzyman200 I'm sure you would like to believe that, but it's simply not true. I've seen him back up his beliefs with reason on multiple occasions and your saying he doesn't, shows just how ignorent you are of his work.
TheHonestTheist 3 months ago
@TheHonestTheist
Ah, calling someone 'ignorent' because you can't prove them wrong. Very Ravi.
It is true as you would know if you watched his videos for yourself. He certainly claims to, but can you give evidence to back up your claim? He can't.
Ozzyman200 3 months ago
@TheHonestTheist @TheHonestTheist Here here! It's so unfortunately the case that we human beings in our nature are so predisposed to failing to notice something which destroys our world view, even if this something is truth.
theemurf 3 months ago
Norman Mailer said " There is something wrong in the world, a force that sets it's will against us. Even within ourselves when we are silent with ourselves, we can sense within our own minds a seperation, an " I " observing " me. " If the embodiment of evil were to exist in the world, it would take the form of something unoticed within us. It would not reveal itself as anything that we can tell demonstrate, or be told by others, but would instead speak to us in our own voice. "
oneleggedspider 5 months ago
Ask yourself, if the Bible wasn't true then why do all the occult and secret society researchers who are Christians get jailed and/or murdered?
Bill Cooper (murdered)
Fritz Springmeier (jailed)
John Todd (jailed then murdered)
Randall N Baer (murdered)
Kent Hovind (jailed)
OzInfoWarrior 5 months ago 16
@OzInfoWarrior 9/11 is certainly suspicious. it was definitely the catalyst for two illegal wars Iraq and Afghanistan. there is definitely an financial oligarchy controlling the world. and we must find away to resolve this problem.
someoneupload 5 months ago
@someoneupload The only way you can resolve the problem of this global elite & where it's heading (world government, RFID chipped humans, de-population) is to bow down to God & accept Jesus as your saviour. All that is to happen we cannot stop. "for I am God..yea, I have spoken it I will also bring it to pass; I have proposed it, I will also do it"
The game is already in the bag. False hope isn't going to help anyone. The end days of the end times is fast approaching -Jews are back in homeland.
OzInfoWarrior 5 months ago 5
@someoneupload 911 was all governments. Not terrorist!
Lctsforce 4 months ago
@OzInfoWarrior Probably because their all morons?
brewerbrian420 4 months ago
@OzInfoWarrior Why did Kent Hovind get jailed? Cause he broke the law! Silly question. There is no conspiracy here, which is what you are implying, which is quite frankly, very silly.
TheHonestTheist 3 months ago 6
@TheHonestTheist Who makes the laws? The very same people Hovind was speaking out against. Understand how the system works before you say someone deserves to go to jail for a victimless crime.
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."
- Mayer Amschel Rothschild
OzInfoWarrior 3 months ago 13
@OzInfoWarrior What are you trying to say, the occult made a law so they could jail Kent? Kent failed to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's", it's his own fault he went to jail, there is no conspiracy, there was no law created to jail him. You commit fraud, you goto jail, not because you preach against the occult, but because you broke the law! This conspiracy stuff is non-sensical rubbish, devoid of all logic, using an everything-is-the-occult view of reality.
TheHonestTheist 3 months ago
@TheHonestTheist Did you not understand that Rothschild quote???
That quote answers everything you just replied.
OzInfoWarrior 3 months ago 2
@OzInfoWarrior
"Kent Hovind (jailed)" Yes, jailed for a major case of tax evasion. Is tax evasion holy?
onlylettersand0to9 3 months ago
@onlylettersand0to9 Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers..
OzInfoWarrior 3 months ago 3
@OzInfoWarrior I am astounded that a comment like this can recieve 10 thumbs up by bringing forward the idea of some murky conspiracy theory. But I decided to humor you and "ask myself" how you connect your conspiracy (be it real or not) to the veracity of the Bible? Dan Brown for instance wrote at least two books which concentrate on a religious conspiracy theory and yet he does not believe in the majorty of what the Bible says. This is just an example.
bobivd6688 1 month ago
@bobivd6688 So tell me why the occult and secret society researchers who are atheists are allowed to flourish in their works and hold grand presentations?
ie David Icke, Michael Tsarion, Jordan Maxwell, Peter Joseph, David Wilcock and on and on.
The Christian researchers were taken out and replaced to guide people away from the Christian solution - salvation in Jesus Christ, and him alone.
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago 5
@OzInfoWarrior You did not answer my question. I said I will humor you and accept the idea of a conspiracy plausible. However there is absolutely no connection between this and the veracity of the Bible. Listen to yourself for one second - there is an anti-christian conspiracy so God must be real? What about all the shady things that have been done throughout history in the name of God and christinaty? Do they disprove God by your logic?
bobivd6688 1 month ago
@bobivd6688 You didn't answer my question of why atheists are allowed to flourish in their work but Christians are locked up and murdered.
You're not a Christian, therefore why would you spend time identifying the anti-Christian/God agenda that is prevalent throughout the media, radio, movies and TV? You wouldn't see it because it doesn't effect you.
Why would the elite bother about jailing and murdering Christian researchers if the Bible wasn't true?
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago 2
@OzInfoWarrior Eeveryone likes to get the minority simpathy vote. Christians jailed and murdered and atheists thriving? Have you studied history? Religion and christianity in particular is the most privileged teaching in the history of the world. No one is going to get offended if you make a joke about evolution but if I dare joke with the almighty God of yours it means I'm a horrible person who's going to Hell so don't pretend for a second to be the oppressed minority.
bobivd6688 1 month ago
@bobivd6688 Why are you arguing your point by referencing history? How many occult and secret society researchers way back in history can you name? This is a modern argument so your point is completely void.
No one would get offended about someone making a joke about evolution because there's nothing sacred about it. There's no laws, no morality, nothing, it's an empty belief system. Another void argument.
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago
@OzInfoWarrior My point is completely valid since I was demonstrating the priviliged position of religion in our lives and history proves that easily. I will withdraw my comment on evolution vs God since it was meant as a joke to begin with.
bobivd6688 1 month ago
@bobivd6688 What exactly is your point? In what context are you referring to occult and secret society researchers in your argument?
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago
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@bobivd6688 "If I recall God's second coming was supposed to come to pass under the rule of the Roman Empire."
There are certain prophecies that need to come to pass before he returns. When the New Age Religion makes it's mark at the end of 2012 and Christians are accused of holding back humanity from progressing, you'll see the hatred of us that the Book of Revelation foretells. Christians won't accept the belief that there are many ways to God, so we will be vilified.
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago 2
@bobivd6688 The Bible predicts the future. 30% or more of the Bible is propechy. If you had actually studied it you would know this. That's the proof the Bible is the word of God because it's telling you things that are going to happen before they do. No other book does that with 100% accuracy.
They hate Christians because the Bible has foretold the elite's plan of world government and identifies what is to come and so they have to have a massive campaign to ridicule it.
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago 2
@OzInfoWarrior As for your prophecies coming true - name one that is clear cut and has actually come true. If I recall God's second coming was supposed to come to pass under the rule of the Roman Empire. Maybe you'll throw Daniel's prophecy at me because I haven't "studied the Bible enough".
bobivd6688 1 month ago
@bobivd6688 So you just admitted you haven't studied the Bible. So why argue with me when you haven't even done the research? Pointless.
The Book of Daniel -> Alexander the Great. The prophecy written centuries before was a great empire would rule and then be divided into 4. Those 4 then merge into 2. Those 2 then merge into 1. What happened in history? Exactly what he said would happen.
Or how about the Jews returning to Israel.
Both are clear cut and extraordinary prophecies.
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago
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bobivd6688 1 month ago
@OzInfoWarrior I haven't studied the Bible... That's what you got from my comment... I commend you on your deep understanding of sarcasm. Extraordinary prophecies? You should do a little more research into the Book of Daniel - when it was most likely written for example. Also there's nothing clear cut about it - it's competely speculative. Winston Churchill said in 1919 that the world is going to take a 20 year break from war, is he a prophet?
bobivd6688 1 month ago
@bobivd6688 The age old argument you only have, that the Book of Daniel was written after the event. That's your stance? Pathetic.
We'll get nowhere here so leave that. What about the Wandering Jews returning to Israel? Wandering Jews who were kicked out and persecuted country after country after country after country. Everyone would have laughed in your face at such an assertion before WWII. Yet it came true, or was that written after the event too?
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago 3
@OzInfoWarrior No that's not the only arument. Evangelists claim that the fourth kingdom from Book of Daniel is Rome because it's more convenient for them while it makes a lot more sense that the fourth kingdom is Ancient Greece but that would mess with your prophecy ideas. This is just one example of prophecies being interpreted wrongly just to suit your needs. As for your wandering jews - of course they returned to Israel - it's what the Bible told them to strive for.
bobivd6688 1 month ago
@bobivd6688
"Postmodernism was at the Garden of Eden when Adam & Eve said, "has God really said". What did postmodernism do? It questioned propositional truth. Does a statement really mean what it says or do you fuse your own meaning into any statement? So postmodernism questioned verbal authority. That's where it all began. You don't leave the authority with the author, the authority goes to the reader."
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago
@bobivd6688 ...So you can read a book & you become sovereign over the author. That's exactly what happened at the Garden of Eden, they wanted to play as God."
- Ravi Zacharias
"As for your wandering jews - of course they returned to Israel"
Of course? ... That really shows you know nothing of history if you think "of course Jews would get their homeland back". That's an amazing statement.
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago
@OzInfoWarrior I love it when someone quotes half of my sentence to make their point. Great debating skills. My point was and still is that it is not prophecy fulfillment when there are people striving towards the actual fulfillment. It's not prophecy fulfillment when the old testament says something will occur and then it "comes true" in the new testament. It's not prophecy fulfillment when it's a likely event with no time limit. It's not prophecy fulfillment when it's written after the event.
bobivd6688 1 month ago
@OzInfoWarrior There are no clear-cut prophecies. They're all speculative and based on interpretations made so that they would appear fulfilled. Saying ten likely events will occur sometime in the future and then wait for a thousand (or more) years for one of them to occur is not prophecy. It's guessing. It's also not prophecy fulfillment when many people are working towards actually fulfilling it.
bobivd6688 1 month ago
@bobivd6688
"There are no clear-cut prophecies."
"Saying ten likely events will occur sometime in the future"
Over 30% of the Bible is prophecy. List all the prophecies that were wrong that have come to pass? The Bible isn't Nostradamus, it's clear. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies of the Old Testament and many written centuries before the messiah appeared.
OzInfoWarrior 1 month ago
@OzInfoWarrior I dislike it when someone quotes half of my sentence and you did so twice so let me explain - I used the number ten just as an example, I know the Bible contains more than ten prophecies. A fulfilled clear-cut prophecy would be a historic fact, not something we have to interpret and "match" into history because we want to say it came true. I've listed everything that does not qualify as prophecy in my other comment, now think about your biblical prophecies carefully.
bobivd6688 1 month ago
@bobivd6688 The Old Testament:
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:5
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior I'm sorry but that's a claim and nothing more. One book with questionable authors written and changed over the course of 1500 years is not really evidence. The only reason anyone would consider the Bible as evidence is if he has a preconception that that book is true and right. If those words help you that's fine - it doesn't make them true.
bobivd6688 2 weeks ago
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@OzInfoWarrior I'm sorry but that's a claim and nothing more. One book with questionable authors written and changed over the course of 1500 years is not really evidence. The only reason anyone would consider the Bible as evidence is if he has a preconception that that book is true and right. If those words help you that's fine - it doesn't make them true.
bobivd6688 2 weeks ago
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OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
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OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
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OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
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@bobivd6688 Messiah will be born of a virgin, born in Bethlehem, be a prophet, his ministry begins in Galilee, will perform miracles, will rise from the dead, will be betrayed by a friend, will die a violent death, and his hands and feet will be pierced.
Only one man that has ever lived has fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament. There can be no doubt that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior the bible also says the earth i flat and alludes to being approximately 6000 years old. if it really was translated from god himself then a few things: either god didnt commune his word very effectively, or he chose the wrong people to copy it down. i dont care how many prophecies came true, many prophecies also didnt come true. you cant pick and choose what to follow
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "i dont care how many prophecies came true"
Haha what? Sounds like extreme bias on your behalf.
"many prophecies also didnt come true"
List them.
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior i dont care how many came true because if it is the word of god then it should all be true, otherwise god is wrong and therefore not omnipetant.
saiah predicts that five cities in Egypt will undergo a language conversion to the Canaanite tongue (19:18)
Isaiah just a few verses later foretells of an alliance between Israel, Egypt and Assyria (19:23-25).
jeremiah informs us that God will smite all the Israelites migrating into Egypt (42:15-18)
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Word for word from godlessliberal(dot)xanga(dot)com/746465151/failed-biblical-prophecies/
You have to understand that the Bible is the inspired word of God, written by man. 40 different writers and 66 books written over centuries.
"After you take the 20 thousand lines of the New Testament, it is safe for any scholar to say there's at least a 99.6% accuracy."
-Bruce Metzger, scholar from Princeton
No ancient book matches it's accuracy.
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior i dont care how similar the books are, they re not historically accurate. they re not believable. they do not prove god's existence. they re fictitious stories. and how can you say my life is not meaningful? we are just a tiny dot in the universe. our actions have no effect except to ourselves and that is where i get my meaning out of life. i think i have one so im going to spend it wisely. im not looking forward to an afterlife.
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "they re not historically accurate." - Yes, they are.
"they re not believable" - Your bias opinion.
"they do not prove god's existence" - Your bias opinion.
"and how can you say my life is not meaningful?"
Explain to me the meaning of life.
"im not looking forward to an afterlife."
And when you die and you're confronted by God, what will you say? Bertrand Russell answered this question by saying "you didn't give us enough evidence". Really?
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior no he gives us a several thousand year old book, which has been disproven in many areas in terms of certain claims, geographic areas and historical events. he gives us a book that illustrates his own evil as he orders multiple genocides, says slavery is ok and forces incest. and you wonder why i dont believe? if you truly read the bible, you would see how evil he really is. and ive asked for 1 piece of evidence that the christian god exists and you ve failed to provide it.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "and ive asked for 1 piece of evidence that the christian god exists and you ve failed to provide it."
- Jesus' resurrection. Everyone agreed the tomb was empty.
- Skeptics who didn't believe Jesus when he was alive, but days later changed that belief after he appeared to them & went to martyr's death for that belief.
- Jesus' desciples cowardly denied knowing Jesus after his death, but then days later drastically changed their belief and some went to martyr's death.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior just because i dont know the meaning of life, it doesnt mean i have to be a sheep and follow and evil book. if it were the word of god, then why is there a lot of crap in there that just isnt true? either he did a shitty job in relaying his message to us, or he chose the wrong people to copy his word down.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "just because i dont know the meaning of life, it doesnt mean i have to be a sheep and follow and evil book."
Evolution is taught in the public school system.... you are a sheep. You're the perfect drone molded by the powers that be.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior On the note of Western Civilization rapidly losing it's empathy & it's increasingly self-centredness, I'll leave you with Ravi Zacharias (of this video):
"Hobart Mowrer went to his grave a skeptic. He taught at John Hopkins. He taught at Harvard. Committed suicide at the age of 75. But he wrote in Psychology Today sometime in the 70's, "you know when we did away with sin we lost our definition of ourselves." That's a skeptic saying that. We'd lost who we were."
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior just because he is a skeptic, doesnt mean he speaks for me or atheists alike. hat is why im telling you to stop quoting random people. it is their opinion. its not my view. its not your view. its not atheists view. its not a religious view. it is personal. and what do you know. you didnt address the part where i said that christianity cant claim all morality. so where did it come from.. i wonder why you didnt address that. morality is man made.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior evolution is taught in schools because it is proven fact. dont say its just a theory because then you dont know its definiton with regards to science. gravity is a theory. it has been proven. why do you think 98% of all biology teachers believe in evolution? they know more about it than you do.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
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@GOOdGuyGreg1 "evolution is taught in schools because it is proven fact."
No, it's not. It's a theory. If you don't understand what school is truly about I feel sorry for you. Where is schooling back in history? You were taught at home. School is all about conforming & molding the minds of the masses on how to think without questioning your reality, & regurgitate from the teachers taught by Uni so they know who the better drones are for the positions of influence within society.
OzInfoWarrior 6 days ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "why do you think 98% of all biology teachers believe in evolution?"
Void point.
They grew up through the brainwashing of school and the media on Darwinism. Not to mention the major universities are ruled by atheists, including the funding, ie they will make it extremely hard for you to get anywhere believing in God. Hence, why would religious people study biology when it's a field ruled by & for the Godless.
That's why, not because it's true.
OzInfoWarrior 6 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior "They grew up through the brainwashing of school and the media on Darwinism."
wow you re actually retarded. firstly atheism has nothing to do with evolution. that is just a common view. you talk like its one big conspiracy. there would be no atheistic view if there wasnt some semblance of facts to support it. its not like everyone knows evolution is wrong yet they troll for the sake of being trolls. they know more than you do about it.
GOOdGuyGreg1 6 days ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "you idiot" "wow you re actually retarded."
Including ad hominem attacks in your arguments indicates you are being emotional in your replies rather than arguing with reason. Being disrespectful has ended this discussion. Learn to argue without infusing emotion.
OzInfoWarrior 5 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior naturally when my opposition makes a stupid remark, then that will evocate some emotion from me. by labelling an argument as stupid, maybe i hope for you to realise and look at what you re saying.
GOOdGuyGreg1 4 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior and once again, i draw attention to the fact that you again did not answer my question about where morality came from before the judaic religion. i asked a long time ago how tribes coexisted. you still have failed to answer it because you choose to ignore it because you have no answer. i try to address everything you say. i also asked for one piece of evidence and you didnt provide one. you simply attacked evolution and said if you have faith then you will see.
GOOdGuyGreg1 4 days ago
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@GOOdGuyGreg1 Including ad hominem attacks in your arguments indicates you are being emotional in your replies rather than arguing with reason. Being disrespectful has ended this discussion. Learn to argue without infusing emotion.
OzInfoWarrior 4 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior besides darwinism is just the basis of the idea. it has been refined constantly as technology advances and we learn more. that is why very little of darwinism is followed in the modern concept of evolution.
"why would religious people study biology when it's a field ruled by & for the Godless"
-that is one of the stupidest things ive heard. just because you dont understand it and your little book says otherwise, doesnt mean the whole field of study is wrong. you are wrong
GOOdGuyGreg1 6 days ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 If you remove the Creator, then you remove your rights as a human, because they are no longer endowed to you, they are privileges granted by whim of governmental decree. That's a huge difference. I understand WHY men want to insist they're nothing more than animals, most usually so they can behave like them in matters of violence, language and fornication.
OzInfoWarrior 5 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior we humans are animals. you cannot deny that. we re a part of nature. we behave in many ways just like animals. you say that we want to be deemed as animals so we can behave like them in matters of violence etc? so your e saying thats the reason why we claim to be animals? so violence can be more socially acceptable? no. please think about what you re saying. you have not put forth a good argument yet.
GOOdGuyGreg1 4 days ago
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@OzInfoWarrior YOU are nuts. The budhists have no god. Would you claim that they behave badly, fornicate, are violent, because they acknowledge no god ? They are most probably the most peaceful people on earth.
ndzoko 2 days ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 But that so-called freedom (actually slavery) soon becomes their death-nell when the overlords extend their animal like control over their beasts of burden. In other words, there's not much fornicating going on in the slaughter house.
OzInfoWarrior 5 days ago
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@OzInfoWarrior evolution is taught in schools because it is proven fact. dont say its just a theory because then you dont know its definiton with regards to science. gravity is a theory. it has been proven. why do you think 98% of all biology teachers believe in evolution? they know more about it than you do.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior regarding 'evidence':
1) it is not even certain the jesus was killed. the quran says that jesus wasnt killed. and if he was seen to have risen three days later, doesnt that suggest that maybe the muslims have it right?
2)i dont believe because i cant see if jesus did perform miracles/ its 2000 years later and all i have to go by it is a book which is wrong in many areas.
3)that is not evidence that god exists! people changed their minds! i dont care. i want evidence. there is none
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 @GOOdGuyGreg1 1) "it is not even certain the jesus was killed" By that statement alone, you're challenging the "99.6% accuracy" of the New Testament, by saying no one went to martyr's death, as why would they if he didn't die? No Skeptics, Paul, Jesus' half brother James, all of it never happened. Nothing happened in Rome after Jesus' death?
2) So why didn't anyone disagree with the fact that the disciples & skeptics radically changed their minds when it was written?
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior why did all the people believe back then? because people were stupid back then! like i said, they were in one of the worst parts of the world and were all illiterate who believed that sickness and natural disasters were gods will. we know better now. and yes they do contradict each other. going off memory-mathew and john dont agree on who josephs father was. there are other-i cant remember
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "why did all the people believe back then? because people were stupid back then!'
Are you joking? You really have no idea about anything. Honestly. Western Civilization is incredibly dumbed down. 200+ years ago children were reading books we as adults would struggle to understand now. It speaks volumes about your ego and why you're an atheist, claming to be so much smarter with absolutely no proof your brain is better than those before you.
OzInfoWarrior 6 days ago
@OzInfoWarrior you idiot im not talking about 200 years ago, im talking 20000 years ago. they were incredibly stupid-especially in the parts mentioned in the bible. they were iliterate. now science is disproving parts of the bible, that is why there is a steady rise in atheism.
GOOdGuyGreg1 6 days ago
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OzInfoWarrior 6 days ago
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@GOOdGuyGreg1 They appear to contradict eachother, but they don't. Age old lie you atheists continue to parrot without research.
"they were in one of the worst parts of the world & were all illiterate who believed that sickness & natural disasters were gods will. we know better now"
Really? So is that why, now, we believe in this whole idea of going through "teenage years". No such thing in history. You were a child, then you became an adult. Society is dumber now.
OzInfoWarrior 6 days ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 3) Psychology studies tell us people don't go from being cowards and denying to willing to die for a belief they don't believe or know to be false. Doesn't happen and you can't explain that so you deny it happened.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1
"One thing we cannot deny the Christians is the documentation available across the centuries."
- Richard Ostling, Time Magazine Article. 1988
"Nothing in ancient literature matches it, not Homer, nor Aeschylus, or the Gallic Wars of Caesar. "
OzInfoWarrior 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior ok first stop quoting random people on random points. i can do the same from atheists and you wouldnt agree with what they re saying. ill do one and you ll see what i mean: "in dark ages people are best guided by religion, as in a pitch black night a blind man is the best guide; he knows the roads and paths better than a man that can see. when daylight comes however, it is foolish to use blind old men as guides." - Heinrich Heine
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@OzInfoWarrior that illustrates that religion was good in a time when people thought diseases and natural disasters were just gods wrath. where we thought we were so special that the earth was the centre of the universe and the sun revolved around it. but now as we learn more, it is only logical that religion step aside from being the teacher and we start thinking with reason and logic.
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 Atheists always claim "reason and logic" but what advancements in science has the next leading world power, the godless Chinese scientists come up with? Nothing.
History's great scientists, like the person who held Hawking's chair, Sir Isaac Newton, their motivation for doing their science was actually faith in the creator.
"Men became scientific because they expected laws of nature and they expected laws of nature because they believed in a creator."
- C. S. Lewis
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior i keep telling you to stop quoting people otherwise ill do the same and we wont get anywhere. quotes are just other peoples opinions. think for yourself. No i cannot possibly explain the meaning of life. that doesnt mean my life isnt meaningful. the bible claims that noah built an arc and the world flooded. you honestly think that is historically accurate. that is a fable and a childish one at that. the world didnt flood. he couldnt have fit that many animals on the arc.
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
@GOOdGuyGreg1 "No i cannot possibly explain the meaning of life."
Ok, now we're getting somewhere.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior water is constant. it doesnt disappear. it only changes state i.e. solid, liquid, gas. that means that a global flood is impossible as there is not enough water on earth now to flood the entire earth. he would have had to have fit 10 million animals on his arc. you say its historically accurate? you say its believable. and yes betrand russel is right. why couldnt god give us more evience? whats so wrong about that?
GOOdGuyGreg1 1 week ago
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OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
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@GOOdGuyGreg1 Yes, no other ancient text has the historical accuracy as the Bible does.
Betrand Russell believed there wasn't enough evidence because his world view was bias in favour of the law of Do What Thou Wilt. He wouldn't believe in the one thing God asks you to do, and that is to have FAITH in God. Betrand Russell also longed for love. God was right there, but he didn't hear, nor see, nor understand.
God has given you enough evidence. You only refuse to acknowledge it.
OzInfoWarrior 1 week ago
@OzInfoWarrior Ezekiel prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy the city of Tyre (26). He goes on to tell Tyre that they will never be rebuilt. Yet later we learn that Nebuchadnezzar was unsuccessful in the raid of Tyre (29:18). Alexander the Great conquered Tyre hundreds of years later. It was then rebuilt, contrary to Ezekiel 26:14.
GOOdGuyGreg1 2 weeks ago