One typically says "Pulled" the economy back from the cliff. Your use of "push" seems well placed in at least that the misuse of public money has indeed pushed us to the cliff and potentially eventually over the cliff.
Alan Greenspan left on hell of a problem in the american economy. He took apart everything like any libertarian has always wanted in the financial system and government intervention.
His actions and the mass deregulation is going to haunt the American economy much longer than Obama's presidency. It's going to take some men like Teddy Roosevelt to stand up and take on the corporations and bust em down.
@Luinreg actually, our founding fathers had little or no use for corporations. But all we ever hear is how much they liked owning guns these days. Corporations were once, of limited duration, goal specific and were disbanded and profits disbursed after things that they were meant to do were accomplished. Oh well. I go listen to Rush and Ron Paul, that'll cure me of all of these bad thinking type thoughts.....baaah baaah baaaah see, its already working...baaaah
Ugh, but with the rise of Ron Paul and nu-libertarian populism swelling in popularity we could be heading further down that direction! I mean i think Ron Paul is a fine man, but his followers are kind of crazy and espouse this belief that the Free Market can do NO wrong!
Oh it isn't the Ron Paul crowd that you should be worried about. It's the Glenn Beck crowd and all the republicans that now title themselves as libertarians or "tea party".
Remember that the leader of Freedom Works Dick Armey is a republican and former house of rep for the republican party.
Right now there is a swell of "independents" jumping on the libertarian bandwagon and mutilating their platform. I know libertarians and they curse Glenn Beck and the 9/12 and tea party groups every day.
Thinking on it twice, i think you're absolutely correct. Glenn Beck and the Tea Party Crowd are far worse then the Ron Paul crowd ever could be. At least Ron Paul and his friends are against the wars!
The Tea Party movement is a Establishment Republican movement hijacking the earnest plight of real libertarians!
Dear Sirellyn, Seleucus, and Gatsu, This is a non issue guys. The real issue is: is it possible to get outside the prison of the current state of profit and ownership. Is there no other system? Is Capitalism the end all be all. Is this as good as it gets? Answer no fuckin' way. Capitalism and all the horseshit that goes with it (conflict, poverty, and corruption) is dead. Time to jump on board a new paradigm gents.
Capitalism is when two groups freely decide to exchange the products of their labor, because each desires or needs the others more.
Pure socialism is having a third party take someones labor and redistribute it according to how they think it's best serves everyone.
This may work if we could see every variable for a situation. Since we don't have omniscience, I humbly choose to let an individual know what is best for themselves.
Ur explanation of Capitalism is called "a trade".
Having an open market is nothing Socialism protests, spesifically talking about modern Socialism or Socialist Democracy.
Capitalism is an economic AND political structure that protects the RICHER (or Capital) members of the market in a market situation. By focusing on privatization and deregulation, it believes the markets internal dynamics can control industry and SOMEHOW insure fairness. Rubbish in other words.
@Ex0dus111: Ur explanation of Capitalism is called "a trade".
Yes the core of capitalism is simply free trade as I explained. Political corruption, theft, breaking contracts and an unbalanced playing field are not capitalism. You attribute a lot more to the word than it actually means.
There's been no deregulation for the little guy = no real deregulation. You ask for more of the same rules that have quashed the poor and are evaded or loopholed by the elite. Whose side are you on?
The core of capitalism is not trade, but capital. Trade comes in second. In a capitalist system one who has accumulated capital does not even need to engage in any actual trades of real world commodities to accumulate more capital.
You are trying to simplify a complex system by redefining it's meaning. It's American propaganda newspeak. Redefining words to mean what the status quo wants them to mean and not what they actually originally meant.
Sorry Capitalism is not a free market, thats called free market liberalism.
Capitalism is, as i said, placing the CAPITAL, or big business, FIRST in the market equation.
And regulation enacted by a NON-rightwing democratically enacted government is more often then not to help small business, and the consumer, which is the ideal role of goverment after all.
This has nothing to do with war propaganda. Trade does not mean freely exchanged. If I steal from you, and trade the stolen property to a friend it is wrong, but is still trade. If I destroy your water supply and then offer to trade you water, it is still trade. But neither are examples of capitalism. Neither are freely exchanged.
I get my definitions from Mises, and nobel winners like Hayek.
Well I get my definition from those who first defined capital. Marx, Smith and Ricardo.
To claim that the word capitalism simply means free exchange of goods is the kind of vocabularian word play that people like Mises and Hayek, i.e Austrian and Chicago school "economists" engage in order to justify their fantasy ideologies.
Trade is trade. Capital is capital. Trade does not mean capital. Capital does not mean trade. Pure and simple.
Their ideologies just don't play in the real world.
As per your examples, call it free trade then, or simply freely exchanged goods, but don't call it capitalism, because regardless of whether the goods are freely exchanged or not your examples have nothing at all to do with capital.
You've lived to witness the USSR break apart, China slowly converting more to capitalism and flourishing, and North America tending more towards socialism than ever and falling, and you still believe Marx is right? I'm glad you at least read Adam Smith.
If you continue to seek more power for a government known only for inaccountability and less for the capitalists you fear you will certainly build a prison that has maximum security.
Well the USSR was never gonna succeed with it's Stalinist policies. And yes capitalism gives the illusion of prosperity, but this is only in the short term. Again it's common sense. A sudden influx of capital, and/or the deregulation of the market WILL see high growth rates in the short term. But in the long term it will lead to high debt, and much bigger problems. Real world events have shown this time and time again.
I could go on and on about why the USSR collapsed and how China has become a world leader. These countries were agrarian societies which came out of successive civil and world wars, for them to be immediately successful under any system is impossible. Not to mention the millions of lives the capitalists obliterated in these countries by sabotage and supporting civil wars, and dictators Not to mention the Stalinist system which was closer to fascism.
Don't you see the irony? You blame the US's fall on socialism, yet the US's success was due to socialistic policies, before and after WW2. It has been it's capitalistic policies which has seen it divided and on the verge of collapse. Don't you see that for China to succeed in a capitalist system there must be a loser? A debtor?
It's only now that capitalists have latched onto this propaganda methodology of labeling every government service socialist, then have concluded erroneously that we are moving towards socialism. Government services have existed throughout the history of the US, infact if the capitalists are right then it has always been socialist.
You would have to ignore large tacts of US history not to mention world history bvious facts to make these statements sirellyn.
The problems are that the banking system is the lifeline to many business budgets via credit, if the banks take a beating in profit-money-loan budget, so does employment budgets
also if the feds have to jump in and print money to help, they reduce money direction to other things like schools, gov workers, etc
individual independence is the key,, but thats been steadily reduced via lack of "meaningful" education, productiveness, and valuable experience
Boundless Greed, Criminal Behavior, No Regulation, Lawlessness, and knowing that the Government and the Justice system will let you get away with anything because you have money, influence and power, all of these are the causes.
Corruption is not a part of human nature, that is a vast generalization. According to you every single individual would be corrupt.
Go read your history on the communist regimes before you go around making such idiotic statements.
They had to KILL a whole lot of people who OPPOSED them, including thousands of other COMMUNISTS and SOCIALISTS before the corrupted leaders could take power.
Well first off, the majority of defences for the capitalist system point to the links between it and human nature. Second those "communist regimes" were not corrupt because of there nature but because the systems of organisation they setup made effective accountability impossible. In much the same way that this free market neo liberalism makes effective scrutiny of private capital next to impossible. How many times since the 80's have we heard some exec complaining about red tape again
Captialism is corrupt because it does the regulation is not there. Thom Hartmann said it best. Captialism is like a football game. You need rules, referees and goalposts to make it game run well. WIthout government to regulate it it becomes fascist. Especially when Captialism tries to regulate government. That is fascism at it's worst.
captcrais101, you and Thom Hartmann are right. I don't know how they did it, but the Republican Party (the political mouth piece and legislative strong arm for our corporate overlords) has convinced voters to put on their blinders and vote-- time and time, again-- for the deconstruction of our constitutional republic and their civil rights so that they may be replaced with fascist corporatism and indentured servitude.
@captcrais101 Actually, when capitalism and government get to "cahooting", that is Fascism defined....at least before they decided to revise the damn dictionaries. Gods, was G Orwell Nostradamus?
No mention of the Austrian School of Economics by Johnson - that is a odd as it predicts everything that just happened ala Peter Schiff and Ron Paul. We haven't had Capitalism since the 19th Century where people save and invest for genuine wealth creation. There was no 'Great Age of Free Markets' under Greenspan, but an era of Crony Capitalism - Big Business and Big Govt in bed regulating potential competitors out of the game. Now the solution is MORE Regulation and More Govt Intervention!!!???
@captcrais101 "Capitalism" doesn't regulate government. That is called corporatism, my friend... No one said that courts are unnecessary to ensure people play by the rules because you clearly don't know what fascism is...
this guy is one of those usefull idiots.just a tool.there are probably hundreds of thousands of them just like him out there unwittingly destroying all of us.
I think this is one of those cases where those that screw you are the best salesman at being your friend. True free trade and capitalism has not existed on earth for decades. We are constantly being pointed in a direction by- who?
at first sorry for some bad english words if it happens. i am from luxemburg here in europe, and we know nearly the same problems. well it starts to be problems next year i think.
i hope that all the people globaly start to change there point of view of all our politicians, and that we all will find another way to stop all that crisis. but a real way nobody really had till now. even i had so many good ideas, but it will be impossible that those ideas become reality.
Well if it's true that derivatives actually amount to $100 trillion +, the US & world economies will be wiped out and the bank bailouts of the last year or so will seem like small fry.
Freedom and democracy U.S.A. style. Means the freedom of the richest people in the plantant to do what ever they want. The U.S. government working with the corporate elite robs, enslaves, bombs and gives everyone in the plantant the right and freedom to work for the lowest wages on the plantant. Thanks for all the freedom. I think I'm going out to buy a Chinese made U.S. flag to wave.
Johnson is just another Keynesian who won't tell the truth and admit that Keynesian economics is a malicious tool of bureaucrats for controlling economies.
Instead he blames business when the plain in your face facts are that if not for the Federal Reserve and power crazed bureaucrats, business would have to compete instead of being enabled by bureaucrats for special interests and easy money.
Everyone in the world who isn't a rabid partisan leftist knows this now thanks to this last crash.
How can anyone say that there is a recovery, when everybody's beeing without save jobs, homes, prespectives of future? Who is recovering?
Barack is worse than Bush, 'cause, maintaining the same model, as time goes by, all social, economical and political situation gets worse. Capitalism ofers to the majority misery, unemployment, low salaries and instability to all, rich and poor.
wrong dumbass. welfare keeps people poor. LBJ's great society programs only exacerbated poverty and they make life more expensive when inflation kicks in.
Welfare has lifted working families out of poverty and reinvested capital where it will do the most good, into the hands of the masses. It has pulled the country out of the mess that the capitalists have created on numerous occasions.
Some facts about LBJ's great society program.
Americans living below poverty line b4: 22%
Americans living below poverty line after: 12.6%
That is in a seven year period. The highest decline in such a small period.
longer life expentancy happened due to medical advances funded by PRIVATE entrepreneurs it had nothing to do with medicaid/medicare. all those programs did was put this country in an unsustainable financial situation and greatly increase the cost of medical care
Medical advances were totally funded by private entrepreneurs, sure, the usual capitalist tactic of taking credit for other people's achievements.
Private entrepreneurs have no reason to fund medical advances that net then no profit. This is why pharmaceuticals refuse to research a cure for cancer, AIDS etc. They get more profit by selling medicine. They get NOTHING by increasing the life expectancy of people who can't afford to pay for medicine.
indoor plumbing and electricity had something to do with that to- The programs are nice, until to many people learn to milk them- politically and personally. Before LBJ took office, people took care of their families.
Its all well and good..but I can see the compounding problems a full blown, lets vote stuff for us system can create.
hahaha that proves nothing. the great society was such a failure that they had to keep lowering the standard of what constituted the "poverty line" Govt's along with their corporate friends create these messes not capitalism. you buy too much into govt propaganda. I don't even watch fox news nor read WSJ. dumb ass
Who lowered the standard of what constituted the poverty line during LBJ's presidency? Evidence.
Yeah you are right, it is the gov and the corps who create this mess, but it is the capitalist system which gives them justification, and allows them to do it. If you deny we are living in a capitalist system, where those who own the capital control society, then you are living in denial.
the class distinction of capitalists/proles is faulty. Even workers can be capitalists. my father was an immigrant from colombia who worked hard accumulated CAPITAL and then opened his own clinic. we don't live in that system anymore. the govt punishes savers through inflation and rewards reckless behavior with socialist bailouts.
Your dad has limited power in the capitalist system, he has power over his employees, his customers and perhaps some aspects of his community. The true capitalists, the ones who own the majority of the mean of production and capital, have power to influence the whole of society.
It is a simple equation. More capital = More power.
Seleucus84 if your worried about aggregated and centralized power you should be more worried about big government. at least big corporations can fail, that is if they dont get a bail out .
the idea of capitalism is that your entitled to the fruit of your labor and unlimited potential (instead of fixed outcomes). in capitalism, you might not have that secure safety net, you could fail, but you also have no glass ceiling. perhaps you should distinguish between corporatism and capitalism ?
I worry about both really. But at least with the government, in a democracy the people do have rights and processes through which they can question government officials, and methods. No such right exists with corporations, capitalists.
Your definition of capitalism is the idealistic one. It does not correspond to reality, in which the accumulation of capital, results in the consolidation of power, i.e. the natural eventuality of a capitalist system is corporate power.
What alot of people these days seem to be oblivious of, is the role of a government in a republic, a democracy. The role of the government is to represent the people, and do what is best for the entire society. They are supposed to be ultimately responsible to the citizens.
So what happened? Corruption sure, but individual corruption can only go so far, it cannot ruin all of government.
The government has been corrupted in a systematic fashion by the capitalists for their own gain and by a system focused on the accumulation of capital.
In such a system, greed takes precedence, greed is a justification for unethical behaviour. Government officials are not immune to such pressures, and while some remain honest to the principles of government, most have been corrupted. To them it is not even corruption because the capitalist system justifies it.
@Seleucus84 The only reason you see his dad having limited power is because everyone here is taught to work hard in school to get a good job working for someone else. In fact growing up to work for yourself seems like a laughable idea as a serious endeavor. Why? Because of job safety. We've become so risk adverse we literally trade freedom to cage ourselves. Thats why prison is called maximum security.
Actual capitalism and just a little faith in oneself is whats actually needed.
Actually the reason why I see his dad having limited power is because, he does not own enough capital to outbid the power of the true capitalists, the 1% who own 40% of the capital. In a capitalist system their interests will always come before your own, or that of society.
What your saying if of course true, we have become pussies, thanks to government and corporate fear mongering, and just plain laziness. But you fail to take into account the vicious nature of the capitalist system.
The capitalism system is considered the most free because anyone can work to become that top 1%. I don't have to like you, but I will pay you and you will become wealthier if you provide a good or service that I'll pay for. Note "Don't like" and "breaking laws" are two different things.
And yes competition is intense. You don't think university is? Or sports? I'd rather a vicious (but fair) corporate fight, than to be in a vicious war.
You never really delve too deep into why corporations don't seem to be punished do you?
Yes they have capital and finance to perhaps even bribe people. Take the banks. They get bailed out with your dollars, and given to them where they turn around and lobby for more.
This is why indirect tax is supposed to be illegal. How can you even boycott something where your wealth is being stolen for it?
Forcibly taking money because "you know better" is socialism. And thats better how?
Don't you see how you are trying so hard to the capitalist system that you are ignoring the obvious.
The reason why corporations get our taxpayer money and then get to keep their independence, is because they "invest" in politicians through lobbying, and party "donations".
I'm fine with paying taxes, nobody is forcibly taking my money. I know when I call the police or use roads, or get free healthcare that I've done by civic duty and helped pay for these things. No free ride
just like our leader, he is a pupet & thanks to him we r refugees mhomeless, & countryless!
he killed more tamils than sinhalse!
veerappan velu had limited power, power to kill tamils & put the balme on sl-army, also he had power to run & hide amung civilinse,
sl-dogs power fucked his duwarrkaa & madivaani in frount of him, he had power to keep waching it & be happy thinking that duwarrkaa & madivaani done their duty to sinhala-dogs ob behalf of elam!--are u happy too?
Just another example of Paul Jay claiming capitalism is the problem. The problem is corporatism. Robert Johnson seems to elide over what Peter Schiff and Ron Paul were saying years ago. Just more crap from crappy economists and socialist progressives. The direction should be towards freedom and individual responsibility. Johnson and Jay are advocating the worst possible solution for America.
Some capitalists like Soros are fully aware that the entire system is wrong, but they also know that people like it too much as it is, thus they have only two options:
1 stop being a successful businessman and change profession
2 play the game and look for an opportunity to change the system
Nobody can change the system but all people together and this is certainly not Soross fault that too many people believe in selfishness serves me well philosophy which is the essence of capitalism.
There is no recovery, because all the recovery money was given to the uberclique of CEO's and bankers, and surprise! They hoarded it all for themselves, rather than "trickling it down".
When Obama started picking Irgun's Rahm Emanuel from Israels IDF and THE SAME NEOCONS & ZIONISTS THAT WORKED FOR BUSH. Look at the people working for Obama & giving him advise, they are ALL Neocon Israeli-Zionist Wall-Street-Puppets Corporate-Slave War-Industry War-Hawks. Obama Agreed to the Bail-outs by Bush, Obama gave TRILLIONS to Banks without Regulation. Hired Only Goldman Sachs people for Econ positions. Obama Spits on Laws & Constitution
The Ultimate Goal of Cheney, Obama, GOP, DEMS, DC, Congress, PNAC, JINSA, AIPAC, CFR, All Neocons/Zionists, Bush, Emanuel & Clinton
tinyurl(.)com/NeoconAgenda
(MUST READ FOR ALL)
tinyurl(.)com/NeoconZionistWorldOrderAndApoc
Greedy Puppets paid to carry out this Agenda, if they expose the system or go against their Neocon Zionist Elite NWO masters (Rothschild, Rockefeller, Bilderberg etc) and Corporate/Banking/War/Oil/Wallstreet/FedReserve bosses, than they get killed.Remember past presidents
Michael Moore DOES NOT HATE Honest Capitalism, he hates America's Fucked-up Version of Capitalism which only Rewards the Most Criminal and the Greediest that have NO Boundaries when it comes to what they will do for Endless Money, to Steal Money, to Ruin Lives & Kill People in order to get more Money, to Bend all the Rules and Influence All the Politicians in order to make sure there's NO LAWS or REGULATIONS.
Moore is talking about how America's Corrupt Greed-Infested Lawless Heartless Version of Capitalism and their Lobbyists in Washington keep Americans from being as great as other Real Compassionate Capitalist and Liberal Nations on Earth. The Lobbyists & Corporations Pay and Prevent Washington from ever making sure there is Healthcare For All (A Choice that is Free for the Needy who can't afford it, Not Free for the Rich who can afford the best care) and Education For All (Similar to Healthcare).
A system based on capital as it's god will eventually lead to what we have now and worse. It is inevitable.
As capitalists gain more capital they gain more power and more leverage over the checks and balances imposed upon them. In a system based on greed, profit and the accumulation of capital there is no need for a capitalist to play fair.
GOP & DEMS ARE THE SAME AND THEY BOTH SUPPORT ENDLESS WARS AND ONLY WORK FOR CORPORATIONS & THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, THEY BOTH WORK AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
Every Establishment Neocon/Zionist Corporate-Whore War-Profiting Israels-Pawn Wall-Street-Puppet Federal-Reserve-Owned Republicans and Every Establishment Neocon/Zionist Corporate-Whore War-Profiting Israels-Pawn Wall-Street-Puppet Federal-Reserve-Owned Democrats in WASHINGTON DC and in USA ARE THE SAME.
US Government & Politics in DC is a Staged Reality Show
You only see the Actors (Puppets, both GOP & Dems controlled by Same Puppet-masters & Directors), you never get to see Owners/Directors behind the scene who control politicians, & plans all US policies.
Establishment Neocon Corporate GOP & Dems ARE SAME Party.
Banks, Goldman Sachs, Fed Reserve, Oil, War-Industry, Insurance, Lobbyists, Israel, AIPAC, JINSA, PNAC, CFR, Bilderberg, Rockefeller & Rotchschild are Directors & Owners of it all.
America has NO Democracy, Only Corporations VOTE with THEIR MONEY, and only Corporations GET WHAT THEY WANT.
Washington DC and ALL US Politics IS ALL ABOUT taking BRIBES and politicians are ALL becoming Corporate Whore Lobbyists and are ALWAYS in bed with other Lobbyists, ALL OF THEM LOVE being SLAVES to Corporations & Corporate Bribery. Politics is a Game of Deception, Distraction and Betrayal and THE ONLY THING Politicians (Both GOP and DEMS) care about is getting Rich while Backstabbing USA.
Corp/Neocons HATE ACCOUNTABILITY. THERE'S NO REGULATION. You realize that gov & corp ARE IN BED TOGETHER, who do you think pays Obama, GOP, Dems & ALL POLITICIANS IN CONGRESS-Lobbyists. Politicians only work for Corporations, they don't represent Main Street, Americans, US Constitution, Law or Constituents, they represent only Corps, War, Fascism, Greed & Wall-Street. NO DIFFERENCE B/W OBAMA & BUSH. I want Integrity, Honesty, Freedom, Real Capitalism & Competition, NOT Monopoly & CorpGov Fascism
You actually think USA has Capitalism? Monopolies & fascism (gov & corporations own each other & are always in bed), all politicians in DC are Corporate Lobbyists paid & owned by corporations. NONE OF THIS IS CAPITALISM. You think saving people's lives is Communism, you want to kill everyone who doesn't make hundred grand a year? Do you know what communism or socialism is? Socialism is when Gov Controls & Owns ALL INDUSTRY & MEANS OF PRODUCTION, Communism is when NOONE CAN OWN PRIVATE PROPERTY.
USA was NEVER supposed to be a Fascist or Totalitarian nation, a Corptocracy, a Communist nation or a Runaway Capitalism where Greed & Deception Rules above all. USA's a Constitutional Republic, a Social Democratic Republic, our Reps were chosen to WORK FOR us (their Constituents) NOT the lobbyists, neocons, zionists, israel, military industrial complex, nwo, federal reserve, corporations & special interests that want to put millions in politician's bank accounts.
Soros is a shady character indeed. He nearly caused Malaysia banks to collapse by wheeling and dealing. The president of that country blamed the money crisis squarely on him while the politicians in America called the Malaysian President "antisemitic".
Yeah sure Soros is to blame and not the banks, and investment firms which caused the collapse. Yeah mate, you continue to pull that blanket over your head and cry for your capitalist, right wing mommy.
in the way Crimes against Humanity are committed by individuals, not States? Perhaps so, although a bank or investment firm may be set up with set of specific statutes, written by individuals, which rest on anything but a moral basis.
@Seleucus84 - Sorros is a capitalist and owns the banks you stupid fuck!! Wake up!! assclown! the ones with all the money, you know the same ones you complain about are Sorros and company! How the fuck do you think they made all that money? .......They own everything even your Messiah Obamageddon and crew!! dumbass!!!
And for someone apparently supposed to represent the epitome of capitalism and what I complain about Soros does a pretty bad job of representing.
The man donated $6 billion to charity. While I don't agree with capitalism, I certainly find it hard to fault him or his causes. Additionally he has nothing to do with the banks that mismanaged the funds.
Yes being a speculative trader he is part of the problem, but surely there are better targets to focus your anger at than him?
Unless of course you have been worked into a frenzy by the rightwing corporate and news media, who view him as an anomaly, a rebel if you will, amongst the capitalist circles. And thus an easy scape goat.
@Seleucus84 - Oh so now you assclowns want to pick and choose who fits your preconception of a capitalist??? If your going to call wall street the problem then THAT WOULD HAVE TO INCLUDE ALL OF THEM!!! including all of Obamageddons buddies!! WTF!!! and that 6 billion you're so eager to praise, who got that money??? what charities and what was the tax deduction on that!! you think like a poor man, The ultra rich don't think the same way, 6 billion is chicken scratch to these people!
Did I not say he was part of the problem? When did I say he was not a capitalist? And $6 billion is not chicken scratch to anyone, pull your head out of the sand, in your eagerness to crucify Soros, you are letting the real culprits off the hook.
Yeah righteous anger is well and good, but you ain't right, so your anger is akin to that of a brainwashed puppet doing his masters bidding.
The buck ultimately stops at Congress and the presidency. This is has been thirty years in the making. You can also blame the American people, because we've done nothing to prevent this kind of thing from happening.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
sure they are to blame too which is why they should fail. only socialism supports saving them. socialism promted the reckless behavior that the investment firms and banks undertook because they knew the govt would bail them out
You have no idea what socialism is. Every socialist has predicted this collapsed and opposed this system from the beginning. What they have is not a socialist system, but a capitalist one where the government falls under the control of the capitalist elite.
Now that their so called capitalist system has been shown for what it is, they are trying to shaft the blame onto their enemies, and you are falling for it hook line and sinker.
it is not capitalist you dumbass. it is socialist because it redistributes wealth. and socialists propagated this system in the name of free markets. ex freddie and fannie- a utopian socialist ponzi scheme meant to give everyone housing.
If it truly were a socialist system then yes we would've bailed out the banks, but it wouldn't have been a bailout, it would have been a buy out, they would have been fully nationalized. Not given back to the very same people who brought them down.
Infact it wouldn't have even happened in the first place because the government would have done it's job and regulated them, instead of deregulating under the guise of free market capitalism.
I'm glad you say "the guise of free market capitalism" because you just admit that it is not free market capitalism at all. but bail outs from govt are socialist schemes as is unemployment benefits, welfare, social security and medicare
No I say under the guise of "free market capitalism" because that is the bullshit fantasy excuse they feed to the masses to justify their self serving policies.
While the masses and people such as your self go around repeating their free market dogma, believing in the magical forces of the free market, it just doesn't correspond with real world events, where capitalists actually control the flow of capital and thus the market itself.
Yes you could call the bailouts socialist but only up to the point where they are intended to save the economy from collapse and thus prevent mass unemployment. If they were truly socialist, like I said, the banks would have been nationalized. Since it is taxpayer money which effectively kept them afloat, we taxpayers should own them. But of course under this capitalist system we, the people, we the masses work for the capitalists. They get to fuck up and steal our money thru the gov.
that still doesn't address the cause of the problem created by socialist redistribution schemes ex. fannie freddie guaranteeing mortgages, the FDIC insuring irresponsible banks. All of these are keynesian-socialist redistribution schemes
No they are capitalist influences on the gov. The FDIC and the deregulations on the Banking sector was a direct result lobbying by the banking sector.
F/F were run as private corporations and not government entities, which resulted in unchecked mismanagement by it's board, and no oversight by the government.
Why did the gov run privatise these institutions? Because of capitalist influence. The capitalists couldn't wait to get their hands on all of those loans.
Regardless guaranteeing mortgages to the poor, the collapse would have occurred because the derivatives market is valued at $600 trillion, there is more money being gambled in the derivatives market, then there exists in the entire economy. Which is why the capitalists couldn't wait to get their hands on the mortgages from F/F.
It is essentially killer stakes gambling in which capitalists use consumer and taxpayer money instead of their own.
One typically says "Pulled" the economy back from the cliff. Your use of "push" seems well placed in at least that the misuse of public money has indeed pushed us to the cliff and potentially eventually over the cliff.
tetsual 1 year ago
Soros is bullcrap
7brushes 1 year ago
Alan Greenspan left on hell of a problem in the american economy. He took apart everything like any libertarian has always wanted in the financial system and government intervention.
His actions and the mass deregulation is going to haunt the American economy much longer than Obama's presidency. It's going to take some men like Teddy Roosevelt to stand up and take on the corporations and bust em down.
Luinreg 2 years ago
@Luinreg actually, our founding fathers had little or no use for corporations. But all we ever hear is how much they liked owning guns these days. Corporations were once, of limited duration, goal specific and were disbanded and profits disbursed after things that they were meant to do were accomplished. Oh well. I go listen to Rush and Ron Paul, that'll cure me of all of these bad thinking type thoughts.....baaah baaah baaaah see, its already working...baaaah
Plutonwolf 2 years ago
Ugh, but with the rise of Ron Paul and nu-libertarian populism swelling in popularity we could be heading further down that direction! I mean i think Ron Paul is a fine man, but his followers are kind of crazy and espouse this belief that the Free Market can do NO wrong!
asphyxiafeeling 2 years ago
Oh it isn't the Ron Paul crowd that you should be worried about. It's the Glenn Beck crowd and all the republicans that now title themselves as libertarians or "tea party".
Remember that the leader of Freedom Works Dick Armey is a republican and former house of rep for the republican party.
Right now there is a swell of "independents" jumping on the libertarian bandwagon and mutilating their platform. I know libertarians and they curse Glenn Beck and the 9/12 and tea party groups every day.
Luinreg 2 years ago
Thinking on it twice, i think you're absolutely correct. Glenn Beck and the Tea Party Crowd are far worse then the Ron Paul crowd ever could be. At least Ron Paul and his friends are against the wars!
The Tea Party movement is a Establishment Republican movement hijacking the earnest plight of real libertarians!
asphyxiafeeling 2 years ago
Dear Sirellyn, Seleucus, and Gatsu, This is a non issue guys. The real issue is: is it possible to get outside the prison of the current state of profit and ownership. Is there no other system? Is Capitalism the end all be all. Is this as good as it gets? Answer no fuckin' way. Capitalism and all the horseshit that goes with it (conflict, poverty, and corruption) is dead. Time to jump on board a new paradigm gents.
Peace,
Biter.
elbowbiter1 2 years ago
The problem is people still buy into all that horsehit.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
You obviously don't know what capitalism even is.
Capitalism is when two groups freely decide to exchange the products of their labor, because each desires or needs the others more.
Pure socialism is having a third party take someones labor and redistribute it according to how they think it's best serves everyone.
This may work if we could see every variable for a situation. Since we don't have omniscience, I humbly choose to let an individual know what is best for themselves.
ie capitalism
sirellyn 2 years ago
@sirellyn lol, wtf was that?
Ur explanation of Capitalism is called "a trade".
Having an open market is nothing Socialism protests, spesifically talking about modern Socialism or Socialist Democracy.
Capitalism is an economic AND political structure that protects the RICHER (or Capital) members of the market in a market situation. By focusing on privatization and deregulation, it believes the markets internal dynamics can control industry and SOMEHOW insure fairness. Rubbish in other words.
Ex0dus111 2 years ago
@Ex0dus111: Ur explanation of Capitalism is called "a trade".
Yes the core of capitalism is simply free trade as I explained. Political corruption, theft, breaking contracts and an unbalanced playing field are not capitalism. You attribute a lot more to the word than it actually means.
There's been no deregulation for the little guy = no real deregulation. You ask for more of the same rules that have quashed the poor and are evaded or loopholed by the elite. Whose side are you on?
sirellyn 2 years ago
The core of capitalism is not trade, but capital. Trade comes in second. In a capitalist system one who has accumulated capital does not even need to engage in any actual trades of real world commodities to accumulate more capital.
You are trying to simplify a complex system by redefining it's meaning. It's American propaganda newspeak. Redefining words to mean what the status quo wants them to mean and not what they actually originally meant.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
Sorry Capitalism is not a free market, thats called free market liberalism.
Capitalism is, as i said, placing the CAPITAL, or big business, FIRST in the market equation.
And regulation enacted by a NON-rightwing democratically enacted government is more often then not to help small business, and the consumer, which is the ideal role of goverment after all.
Ex0dus111 2 years ago 3
@Sirellyn
That is the definition of trade, not capitalism.
Capitalism refers to an economic system where by capital, not JUST the exchange of goods dictates everything.
You are just repeating American cold war propaganda, which redefined the actual meaning of capitalism for Americans.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
This has nothing to do with war propaganda. Trade does not mean freely exchanged. If I steal from you, and trade the stolen property to a friend it is wrong, but is still trade. If I destroy your water supply and then offer to trade you water, it is still trade. But neither are examples of capitalism. Neither are freely exchanged.
I get my definitions from Mises, and nobel winners like Hayek.
sirellyn 2 years ago
Well I get my definition from those who first defined capital. Marx, Smith and Ricardo.
To claim that the word capitalism simply means free exchange of goods is the kind of vocabularian word play that people like Mises and Hayek, i.e Austrian and Chicago school "economists" engage in order to justify their fantasy ideologies.
Trade is trade. Capital is capital. Trade does not mean capital. Capital does not mean trade. Pure and simple.
Their ideologies just don't play in the real world.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
As per your examples, call it free trade then, or simply freely exchanged goods, but don't call it capitalism, because regardless of whether the goods are freely exchanged or not your examples have nothing at all to do with capital.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
You've lived to witness the USSR break apart, China slowly converting more to capitalism and flourishing, and North America tending more towards socialism than ever and falling, and you still believe Marx is right? I'm glad you at least read Adam Smith.
If you continue to seek more power for a government known only for inaccountability and less for the capitalists you fear you will certainly build a prison that has maximum security.
sirellyn 2 years ago
Well the USSR was never gonna succeed with it's Stalinist policies. And yes capitalism gives the illusion of prosperity, but this is only in the short term. Again it's common sense. A sudden influx of capital, and/or the deregulation of the market WILL see high growth rates in the short term. But in the long term it will lead to high debt, and much bigger problems. Real world events have shown this time and time again.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
I could go on and on about why the USSR collapsed and how China has become a world leader. These countries were agrarian societies which came out of successive civil and world wars, for them to be immediately successful under any system is impossible. Not to mention the millions of lives the capitalists obliterated in these countries by sabotage and supporting civil wars, and dictators Not to mention the Stalinist system which was closer to fascism.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
Don't you see the irony? You blame the US's fall on socialism, yet the US's success was due to socialistic policies, before and after WW2. It has been it's capitalistic policies which has seen it divided and on the verge of collapse. Don't you see that for China to succeed in a capitalist system there must be a loser? A debtor?
That is the way of capital.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
It's only now that capitalists have latched onto this propaganda methodology of labeling every government service socialist, then have concluded erroneously that we are moving towards socialism. Government services have existed throughout the history of the US, infact if the capitalists are right then it has always been socialist.
You would have to ignore large tacts of US history not to mention world history bvious facts to make these statements sirellyn.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
A MUST READ FOR ALL....
beforeitsnews(.)com/story/1082/The_Last_ Real_American_ Dollar
Now you know what has happened.
halcyon0830 2 years ago
give and take - plain and simple
The problems are that the banking system is the lifeline to many business budgets via credit, if the banks take a beating in profit-money-loan budget, so does employment budgets
also if the feds have to jump in and print money to help, they reduce money direction to other things like schools, gov workers, etc
individual independence is the key,, but thats been steadily reduced via lack of "meaningful" education, productiveness, and valuable experience
cool70200 2 years ago
also add in the (price manipulations) and (cost shifings) that add to the general rises in "costs of living" - inflation -RELATIVE TO-
real average incomes,
real production costs,
real budget costs
and real dollar purchasing power
and you got a recipe for disasterous systemic mess
cool70200 2 years ago
@cool70200
So less regulation on international bankers, is the key to solving our financial problems?
greyflcn 2 years ago
The Real News = The Real Bullshit
911truthncDotOrg 2 years ago
The real news = The real bullshit = Not the real bullshit = The real paranoid lunatics
Packitlikesardines 2 years ago
@911truthwhatever....
Packitlikesardines 2 years ago
Paul Jay why don't you interview Real Expects instead of these academics talking heads. This is suppose to be Real News.
Catherine Austin Fitts
Paul Craig Roberts
Joan Veon
911truthncDotOrg 2 years ago
Making excuses for a NWO. The system has been designed to fail.
911truthncDotOrg 2 years ago
yes it does work dumbass you are wrong
ferrozm 2 years ago
@MrSuperpunch019
Capitalism didnt caused this crisis. Corporatism & corruption did it
sansez 2 years ago
Boundless Greed, Criminal Behavior, No Regulation, Lawlessness, and knowing that the Government and the Justice system will let you get away with anything because you have money, influence and power, all of these are the causes.
halcyon0830 2 years ago
@sansez
Which are both endemic to capitalism.
CommissarRed 2 years ago
Corruption it is part of human nature, not capitalism.
All communist regimes around the world were all corrupt
sansez 2 years ago
@sansez
Corruption is not a part of human nature, that is a vast generalization. According to you every single individual would be corrupt.
Go read your history on the communist regimes before you go around making such idiotic statements.
They had to KILL a whole lot of people who OPPOSED them, including thousands of other COMMUNISTS and SOCIALISTS before the corrupted leaders could take power.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
@sansez
Well first off, the majority of defences for the capitalist system point to the links between it and human nature. Second those "communist regimes" were not corrupt because of there nature but because the systems of organisation they setup made effective accountability impossible. In much the same way that this free market neo liberalism makes effective scrutiny of private capital next to impossible. How many times since the 80's have we heard some exec complaining about red tape again
CommissarRed 2 years ago
@sansez
Captialism is corrupt because it does the regulation is not there. Thom Hartmann said it best. Captialism is like a football game. You need rules, referees and goalposts to make it game run well. WIthout government to regulate it it becomes fascist. Especially when Captialism tries to regulate government. That is fascism at it's worst.
captcrais101 2 years ago 5
captcrais101, you and Thom Hartmann are right. I don't know how they did it, but the Republican Party (the political mouth piece and legislative strong arm for our corporate overlords) has convinced voters to put on their blinders and vote-- time and time, again-- for the deconstruction of our constitutional republic and their civil rights so that they may be replaced with fascist corporatism and indentured servitude.
FriedDaisy 2 years ago
@captcrais101 Actually, when capitalism and government get to "cahooting", that is Fascism defined....at least before they decided to revise the damn dictionaries. Gods, was G Orwell Nostradamus?
Plutonwolf 2 years ago
You beat me to that correct answer!
NOTAdemocracy 2 years ago
@Plutonwolf EXACTLY!
captcrais101 1 year ago
No mention of the Austrian School of Economics by Johnson - that is a odd as it predicts everything that just happened ala Peter Schiff and Ron Paul. We haven't had Capitalism since the 19th Century where people save and invest for genuine wealth creation. There was no 'Great Age of Free Markets' under Greenspan, but an era of Crony Capitalism - Big Business and Big Govt in bed regulating potential competitors out of the game. Now the solution is MORE Regulation and More Govt Intervention!!!???
NOTAdemocracy 2 years ago
@NOTAdemocracy
"Now the solution is MORE Regulation and More Govt Intervention!!!?"
Yes.
Look up, "Glass-Steagall Act" (1993-1999)
allgoo19 2 years ago
@allgoo19
It was a typo.
(1933-1999) to be correct.
allgoo19 2 years ago
@captcrais101 NOt TRUE.
nerdwarrior0956 1 year ago
@nerdwarrior0956 Fascism is when capitalism takes over government or corporatism
captcrais101 1 year ago
@captcrais101 "Capitalism" doesn't regulate government. That is called corporatism, my friend... No one said that courts are unnecessary to ensure people play by the rules because you clearly don't know what fascism is...
Ooftyman 1 year ago
this guy is one of those usefull idiots.just a tool.there are probably hundreds of thousands of them just like him out there unwittingly destroying all of us.
taxisgay12 2 years ago
How is that a conspiracy? That's what happened.
xxashyy 2 years ago
I think this is one of those cases where those that screw you are the best salesman at being your friend. True free trade and capitalism has not existed on earth for decades. We are constantly being pointed in a direction by- who?
jsmythib 2 years ago
hello,
at first sorry for some bad english words if it happens. i am from luxemburg here in europe, and we know nearly the same problems. well it starts to be problems next year i think.
i hope that all the people globaly start to change there point of view of all our politicians, and that we all will find another way to stop all that crisis. but a real way nobody really had till now. even i had so many good ideas, but it will be impossible that those ideas become reality.
neotube79 2 years ago
Put the American Worker back to work.
Start shuting the door on imports made by workers that make 20 cents/hr.
DONT BE STUPID- TO WHAT I TELL YA
rickbar123 2 years ago
@rickbar123
Learn how that worked out in history.
wikipedia . org /wiki /SmootHawley_Tariff_Act
kmg501 2 years ago
I have, Smoot Hawley is a joke and has no app here
see HA-JOON CHANG on you tube or read the book
S/H time to move on
rickbar123 2 years ago
Well if it's true that derivatives actually amount to $100 trillion +, the US & world economies will be wiped out and the bank bailouts of the last year or so will seem like small fry.
ivangrozny27 2 years ago
Freedom and democracy U.S.A. style. Means the freedom of the richest people in the plantant to do what ever they want. The U.S. government working with the corporate elite robs, enslaves, bombs and gives everyone in the plantant the right and freedom to work for the lowest wages on the plantant. Thanks for all the freedom. I think I'm going out to buy a Chinese made U.S. flag to wave.
justaoldslave 2 years ago
ha ha ha ha
your so right
so sad
rickbar123 2 years ago
dubai is in it deep due to all that crap they do. like making a 818m tall building and so on. that city is all flash .
jordler 2 years ago
Keynesian, magic.
chewbaca1989 2 years ago
It's funny how free market drones feel obligated to pollute the RealNews' videos with their discredited points of view.
Methinks a little censorship is in order.
MarquisdeBarrabas 2 years ago
Johnson is just another Keynesian who won't tell the truth and admit that Keynesian economics is a malicious tool of bureaucrats for controlling economies.
Instead he blames business when the plain in your face facts are that if not for the Federal Reserve and power crazed bureaucrats, business would have to compete instead of being enabled by bureaucrats for special interests and easy money.
Everyone in the world who isn't a rabid partisan leftist knows this now thanks to this last crash.
kmg501 2 years ago
How can anyone say that there is a recovery, when everybody's beeing without save jobs, homes, prespectives of future? Who is recovering?
Barack is worse than Bush, 'cause, maintaining the same model, as time goes by, all social, economical and political situation gets worse. Capitalism ofers to the majority misery, unemployment, low salaries and instability to all, rich and poor.
luissting 2 years ago 3
wrong dumbass. welfare keeps people poor. LBJ's great society programs only exacerbated poverty and they make life more expensive when inflation kicks in.
ferrozm 2 years ago
@ferrozm
Did you hear that on fox news,WSJ?
Welfare has lifted working families out of poverty and reinvested capital where it will do the most good, into the hands of the masses. It has pulled the country out of the mess that the capitalists have created on numerous occasions.
Some facts about LBJ's great society program.
Americans living below poverty line b4: 22%
Americans living below poverty line after: 12.6%
That is in a seven year period. The highest decline in such a small period.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
@ferrozm
Medicare/Medicaid
When LBJ took office before there were any healthcare programs for the poor, life expectancy was 69 yrs average, now it is 77 yrs.
26 deaths per 1000 live birth b4 M/M now it is 7 per 1000.
Not to mention the research and capital infused into the health profession.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
longer life expentancy happened due to medical advances funded by PRIVATE entrepreneurs it had nothing to do with medicaid/medicare. all those programs did was put this country in an unsustainable financial situation and greatly increase the cost of medical care
ferrozm 2 years ago
@ ferrozm
Medical advances were totally funded by private entrepreneurs, sure, the usual capitalist tactic of taking credit for other people's achievements.
Private entrepreneurs have no reason to fund medical advances that net then no profit. This is why pharmaceuticals refuse to research a cure for cancer, AIDS etc. They get more profit by selling medicine. They get NOTHING by increasing the life expectancy of people who can't afford to pay for medicine.
Seleucus84 2 years ago 2
indoor plumbing and electricity had something to do with that to- The programs are nice, until to many people learn to milk them- politically and personally. Before LBJ took office, people took care of their families.
Its all well and good..but I can see the compounding problems a full blown, lets vote stuff for us system can create.
jsmythib 2 years ago
hahaha that proves nothing. the great society was such a failure that they had to keep lowering the standard of what constituted the "poverty line" Govt's along with their corporate friends create these messes not capitalism. you buy too much into govt propaganda. I don't even watch fox news nor read WSJ. dumb ass
ferrozm 2 years ago
Actually it pretty much disproves your point.
Who lowered the standard of what constituted the poverty line during LBJ's presidency? Evidence.
Yeah you are right, it is the gov and the corps who create this mess, but it is the capitalist system which gives them justification, and allows them to do it. If you deny we are living in a capitalist system, where those who own the capital control society, then you are living in denial.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
the class distinction of capitalists/proles is faulty. Even workers can be capitalists. my father was an immigrant from colombia who worked hard accumulated CAPITAL and then opened his own clinic. we don't live in that system anymore. the govt punishes savers through inflation and rewards reckless behavior with socialist bailouts.
ferrozm 2 years ago
Yeah so your dad is a puppet for the real capitalists. He plays their game while they exploit him and exploit those who work for him even more.
Isn't it interesting that many people who repeat capitalistic dogma, have businesses owners as parents, or are themselves business owners.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
Your dad has limited power in the capitalist system, he has power over his employees, his customers and perhaps some aspects of his community. The true capitalists, the ones who own the majority of the mean of production and capital, have power to influence the whole of society.
It is a simple equation. More capital = More power.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
Seleucus84 if your worried about aggregated and centralized power you should be more worried about big government. at least big corporations can fail, that is if they dont get a bail out .
the idea of capitalism is that your entitled to the fruit of your labor and unlimited potential (instead of fixed outcomes). in capitalism, you might not have that secure safety net, you could fail, but you also have no glass ceiling. perhaps you should distinguish between corporatism and capitalism ?
gatsu6969 2 years ago
@gatsy6969
I worry about both really. But at least with the government, in a democracy the people do have rights and processes through which they can question government officials, and methods. No such right exists with corporations, capitalists.
Your definition of capitalism is the idealistic one. It does not correspond to reality, in which the accumulation of capital, results in the consolidation of power, i.e. the natural eventuality of a capitalist system is corporate power.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
@gatsu6969
What alot of people these days seem to be oblivious of, is the role of a government in a republic, a democracy. The role of the government is to represent the people, and do what is best for the entire society. They are supposed to be ultimately responsible to the citizens.
So what happened? Corruption sure, but individual corruption can only go so far, it cannot ruin all of government.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
The government has been corrupted in a systematic fashion by the capitalists for their own gain and by a system focused on the accumulation of capital.
In such a system, greed takes precedence, greed is a justification for unethical behaviour. Government officials are not immune to such pressures, and while some remain honest to the principles of government, most have been corrupted. To them it is not even corruption because the capitalist system justifies it.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
@Seleucus84 The only reason you see his dad having limited power is because everyone here is taught to work hard in school to get a good job working for someone else. In fact growing up to work for yourself seems like a laughable idea as a serious endeavor. Why? Because of job safety. We've become so risk adverse we literally trade freedom to cage ourselves. Thats why prison is called maximum security.
Actual capitalism and just a little faith in oneself is whats actually needed.
sirellyn 2 years ago
Actually the reason why I see his dad having limited power is because, he does not own enough capital to outbid the power of the true capitalists, the 1% who own 40% of the capital. In a capitalist system their interests will always come before your own, or that of society.
What your saying if of course true, we have become pussies, thanks to government and corporate fear mongering, and just plain laziness. But you fail to take into account the vicious nature of the capitalist system.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
In most man made competitive systems, there are referees to ensure fair play. In capitalism, the winners control the referees.
In a system based on greed and profit, it is natural for the winners to want to protect themselves from competitors, thus the corporation is born.
Corporatism, corruption etc is all part and parcel of the capitalism system.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
The capitalism system is considered the most free because anyone can work to become that top 1%. I don't have to like you, but I will pay you and you will become wealthier if you provide a good or service that I'll pay for. Note "Don't like" and "breaking laws" are two different things.
And yes competition is intense. You don't think university is? Or sports? I'd rather a vicious (but fair) corporate fight, than to be in a vicious war.
sirellyn 2 years ago
In an university, if you don't play fair, you get punished. In the real capitalist world if you don't play fair, but own enough capital, you win.
Well you can't have one without the other. Corporatism leads to imperialism, which then leads to war.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
You never really delve too deep into why corporations don't seem to be punished do you?
Yes they have capital and finance to perhaps even bribe people. Take the banks. They get bailed out with your dollars, and given to them where they turn around and lobby for more.
This is why indirect tax is supposed to be illegal. How can you even boycott something where your wealth is being stolen for it?
Forcibly taking money because "you know better" is socialism. And thats better how?
sirellyn 2 years ago
Don't you see how you are trying so hard to the capitalist system that you are ignoring the obvious.
The reason why corporations get our taxpayer money and then get to keep their independence, is because they "invest" in politicians through lobbying, and party "donations".
I'm fine with paying taxes, nobody is forcibly taking my money. I know when I call the police or use roads, or get free healthcare that I've done by civic duty and helped pay for these things. No free ride
Seleucus84 2 years ago
just like our leader, he is a pupet & thanks to him we r refugees mhomeless, & countryless!
he killed more tamils than sinhalse!
veerappan velu had limited power, power to kill tamils & put the balme on sl-army, also he had power to run & hide amung civilinse,
sl-dogs power fucked his duwarrkaa & madivaani in frount of him, he had power to keep waching it & be happy thinking that duwarrkaa & madivaani done their duty to sinhala-dogs ob behalf of elam!--are u happy too?
KolonelKARUNA 2 years ago
Just another example of Paul Jay claiming capitalism is the problem. The problem is corporatism. Robert Johnson seems to elide over what Peter Schiff and Ron Paul were saying years ago. Just more crap from crappy economists and socialist progressives. The direction should be towards freedom and individual responsibility. Johnson and Jay are advocating the worst possible solution for America.
bbburton 2 years ago
Some capitalists like Soros are fully aware that the entire system is wrong, but they also know that people like it too much as it is, thus they have only two options:
1 stop being a successful businessman and change profession
2 play the game and look for an opportunity to change the system
Nobody can change the system but all people together and this is certainly not Soross fault that too many people believe in selfishness serves me well philosophy which is the essence of capitalism.
abilityoflove 2 years ago
lol joke of the century Soros cares about the world
jonz23m 2 years ago 4
There is no recovery, because all the recovery money was given to the uberclique of CEO's and bankers, and surprise! They hoarded it all for themselves, rather than "trickling it down".
Nice move, O-BAH-AH-AHHHH-MAH-AH-AHHHH.
TheLogicJunkie 2 years ago 2
Excellent interview!!!
it even gets some people that exited as to "argue" here in the comments section.
Good work RN
EspartanoRasta 2 years ago
In socialism there would be no foreclosures. Homeowners would have been baled out.
rubroxato88 2 years ago 3
That's true but we then wouldn't be able to buy a loaf of bread either.
Soros is a deceiver, he made his money by manipulating markets.
MrMP81 2 years ago
@rubroxato88
In socialism there would be no home owners...
kmg501 2 years ago
Reagan, Obama, Clinton, Bush Sr/Jr's Endless Wars & Spending= TRILLIONS GONE
Bush/Obama's WallStreet Bailouts & connections to Lawless Mortgage Giants who went Bankrupt after crashing Economy.
Sick Congress got Rid of Glass-Steagall Act & put in USA/World-Killer Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 2000
en(.)wikipedia(.)org/wiki/Gramm-Leach-Bliley_Act
en(.)wikipedia(.)org/wiki/Enron_loophole
These Crimes Destroyed USA & SHOULD BE ILLEGAL.
Naked Short Selling.
Algorithmic Trading.
Credit Default Swaps.
halcyon0830 2 years ago
Full Truth about the Economic Shit we're in Comes Out
MUST READ,MUST SEE
gdayworld(.)thepodcastnetwork(.)com/2009/10/23/why-obama-is-owned-by-goldman-sachs
salon(.)com/opinion/greenwald/2009/10/16/goldman/index.html
opensecrets(.)org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638
watch?v=0VWkghFkofE , watch?v=YvjJ6VzJH8s
world(.)mediamonitors(.)net/content/view/full/63826
INVESTIGATE THE FED RESERVE, Economic Terrorist GOLDMAN SACHS, AND WHY OBAMA, WHITEHOUSE & GEITHNER ARE ALL OWNED BY THEM
halcyon0830 2 years ago
soros is a zionist douchebag.....! prothink dott orgg
macdaddi88 2 years ago
When Obama started picking Irgun's Rahm Emanuel from Israels IDF and THE SAME NEOCONS & ZIONISTS THAT WORKED FOR BUSH. Look at the people working for Obama & giving him advise, they are ALL Neocon Israeli-Zionist Wall-Street-Puppets Corporate-Slave War-Industry War-Hawks. Obama Agreed to the Bail-outs by Bush, Obama gave TRILLIONS to Banks without Regulation. Hired Only Goldman Sachs people for Econ positions. Obama Spits on Laws & Constitution
baltimorechronicle(.)com/2009/090309Swanson(.)html
halcyon0830 2 years ago
The Ultimate Goal of Cheney, Obama, GOP, DEMS, DC, Congress, PNAC, JINSA, AIPAC, CFR, All Neocons/Zionists, Bush, Emanuel & Clinton
tinyurl(.)com/NeoconAgenda
(MUST READ FOR ALL)
tinyurl(.)com/NeoconZionistWorldOrderAndApoc
Greedy Puppets paid to carry out this Agenda, if they expose the system or go against their Neocon Zionist Elite NWO masters (Rothschild, Rockefeller, Bilderberg etc) and Corporate/Banking/War/Oil/Wallstreet/FedReserve bosses, than they get killed.Remember past presidents
halcyon0830 2 years ago
Michael Moore DOES NOT HATE Honest Capitalism, he hates America's Fucked-up Version of Capitalism which only Rewards the Most Criminal and the Greediest that have NO Boundaries when it comes to what they will do for Endless Money, to Steal Money, to Ruin Lives & Kill People in order to get more Money, to Bend all the Rules and Influence All the Politicians in order to make sure there's NO LAWS or REGULATIONS.
This is Capitalism..
livemint(.)com/2009/07/08215051/A-compassionate-capitalism(.)html
halcyon0830 2 years ago
Moore is talking about how America's Corrupt Greed-Infested Lawless Heartless Version of Capitalism and their Lobbyists in Washington keep Americans from being as great as other Real Compassionate Capitalist and Liberal Nations on Earth. The Lobbyists & Corporations Pay and Prevent Washington from ever making sure there is Healthcare For All (A Choice that is Free for the Needy who can't afford it, Not Free for the Rich who can afford the best care) and Education For All (Similar to Healthcare).
halcyon0830 2 years ago
A system based on capital as it's god will eventually lead to what we have now and worse. It is inevitable.
As capitalists gain more capital they gain more power and more leverage over the checks and balances imposed upon them. In a system based on greed, profit and the accumulation of capital there is no need for a capitalist to play fair.
Seleucus84 2 years ago 6
They Love To Be Actors.
GOP & DEMS ARE THE SAME AND THEY BOTH SUPPORT ENDLESS WARS AND ONLY WORK FOR CORPORATIONS & THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, THEY BOTH WORK AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
Every Establishment Neocon/Zionist Corporate-Whore War-Profiting Israels-Pawn Wall-Street-Puppet Federal-Reserve-Owned Republicans and Every Establishment Neocon/Zionist Corporate-Whore War-Profiting Israels-Pawn Wall-Street-Puppet Federal-Reserve-Owned Democrats in WASHINGTON DC and in USA ARE THE SAME.
halcyon0830 2 years ago
US Government & Politics in DC is a Staged Reality Show
You only see the Actors (Puppets, both GOP & Dems controlled by Same Puppet-masters & Directors), you never get to see Owners/Directors behind the scene who control politicians, & plans all US policies.
Establishment Neocon Corporate GOP & Dems ARE SAME Party.
Banks, Goldman Sachs, Fed Reserve, Oil, War-Industry, Insurance, Lobbyists, Israel, AIPAC, JINSA, PNAC, CFR, Bilderberg, Rockefeller & Rotchschild are Directors & Owners of it all.
halcyon0830 2 years ago
America has NO Democracy, Only Corporations VOTE with THEIR MONEY, and only Corporations GET WHAT THEY WANT.
Washington DC and ALL US Politics IS ALL ABOUT taking BRIBES and politicians are ALL becoming Corporate Whore Lobbyists and are ALWAYS in bed with other Lobbyists, ALL OF THEM LOVE being SLAVES to Corporations & Corporate Bribery. Politics is a Game of Deception, Distraction and Betrayal and THE ONLY THING Politicians (Both GOP and DEMS) care about is getting Rich while Backstabbing USA.
halcyon0830 2 years ago
Corp/Neocons HATE ACCOUNTABILITY. THERE'S NO REGULATION. You realize that gov & corp ARE IN BED TOGETHER, who do you think pays Obama, GOP, Dems & ALL POLITICIANS IN CONGRESS-Lobbyists. Politicians only work for Corporations, they don't represent Main Street, Americans, US Constitution, Law or Constituents, they represent only Corps, War, Fascism, Greed & Wall-Street. NO DIFFERENCE B/W OBAMA & BUSH. I want Integrity, Honesty, Freedom, Real Capitalism & Competition, NOT Monopoly & CorpGov Fascism
halcyon0830 2 years ago
you can just say capitalism, real news. no need to qualify it with the crony. that's just redundant and unnecessary
kstorm06 2 years ago 4
You actually think USA has Capitalism? Monopolies & fascism (gov & corporations own each other & are always in bed), all politicians in DC are Corporate Lobbyists paid & owned by corporations. NONE OF THIS IS CAPITALISM. You think saving people's lives is Communism, you want to kill everyone who doesn't make hundred grand a year? Do you know what communism or socialism is? Socialism is when Gov Controls & Owns ALL INDUSTRY & MEANS OF PRODUCTION, Communism is when NOONE CAN OWN PRIVATE PROPERTY.
halcyon0830 2 years ago
USA was NEVER supposed to be a Fascist or Totalitarian nation, a Corptocracy, a Communist nation or a Runaway Capitalism where Greed & Deception Rules above all. USA's a Constitutional Republic, a Social Democratic Republic, our Reps were chosen to WORK FOR us (their Constituents) NOT the lobbyists, neocons, zionists, israel, military industrial complex, nwo, federal reserve, corporations & special interests that want to put millions in politician's bank accounts.
Solution= Nader/Paul/Kucinich
halcyon0830 2 years ago
i think you're torn between supporting a democracy and supporting a republic.
you want the former, but the latter ain't built for it.
and the 'solution' you provide is little more than shifting around decision-makers.
god, america's so lame.
mikezephyr 2 years ago
Soros is a shady character indeed. He nearly caused Malaysia banks to collapse by wheeling and dealing. The president of that country blamed the money crisis squarely on him while the politicians in America called the Malaysian President "antisemitic".
xxashyy 2 years ago
its because Soros has political connections so he is privy to a lot of info that not everyone else is. He is the epitome of crony capitalism
ferrozm 2 years ago
@ferrozm
Yeah sure Soros is to blame and not the banks, and investment firms which caused the collapse. Yeah mate, you continue to pull that blanket over your head and cry for your capitalist, right wing mommy.
Seleucus84 2 years ago 3
A bank, an investment firm, is just an entity. It is the PEOPLE who speculate not a bank or investment firm.
mengwise36 2 years ago
in the way Crimes against Humanity are committed by individuals, not States? Perhaps so, although a bank or investment firm may be set up with set of specific statutes, written by individuals, which rest on anything but a moral basis.
NicosNicosNicosNicos 2 years ago
@Seleucus84 - Sorros is a capitalist and owns the banks you stupid fuck!! Wake up!! assclown! the ones with all the money, you know the same ones you complain about are Sorros and company! How the fuck do you think they made all that money? .......They own everything even your Messiah Obamageddon and crew!! dumbass!!!
Mrcharliebobo 2 years ago
Im not defending Soros, but the fact remains, Soros did not cause the financial collapse.
Attacking Soros for the faults of the capitalist right, is how they kill two birds with one stone.
Seleucus84 2 years ago 2
And for someone apparently supposed to represent the epitome of capitalism and what I complain about Soros does a pretty bad job of representing.
The man donated $6 billion to charity. While I don't agree with capitalism, I certainly find it hard to fault him or his causes. Additionally he has nothing to do with the banks that mismanaged the funds.
Yes being a speculative trader he is part of the problem, but surely there are better targets to focus your anger at than him?
Seleucus84 2 years ago 3
Unless of course you have been worked into a frenzy by the rightwing corporate and news media, who view him as an anomaly, a rebel if you will, amongst the capitalist circles. And thus an easy scape goat.
Seleucus84 2 years ago 4
@Seleucus84 - Oh so now you assclowns want to pick and choose who fits your preconception of a capitalist??? If your going to call wall street the problem then THAT WOULD HAVE TO INCLUDE ALL OF THEM!!! including all of Obamageddons buddies!! WTF!!! and that 6 billion you're so eager to praise, who got that money??? what charities and what was the tax deduction on that!! you think like a poor man, The ultra rich don't think the same way, 6 billion is chicken scratch to these people!
Mrcharliebobo 2 years ago
Did I not say he was part of the problem? When did I say he was not a capitalist? And $6 billion is not chicken scratch to anyone, pull your head out of the sand, in your eagerness to crucify Soros, you are letting the real culprits off the hook.
Yeah righteous anger is well and good, but you ain't right, so your anger is akin to that of a brainwashed puppet doing his masters bidding.
Seleucus84 2 years ago 3
The buck ultimately stops at Congress and the presidency. This is has been thirty years in the making. You can also blame the American people, because we've done nothing to prevent this kind of thing from happening.
Antiks72 2 years ago 4
he isn't a capitalist he is a crony capitalist, big difference dumbass
ferrozm 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
sure they are to blame too which is why they should fail. only socialism supports saving them. socialism promted the reckless behavior that the investment firms and banks undertook because they knew the govt would bail them out
ferrozm 2 years ago
You have no idea what socialism is. Every socialist has predicted this collapsed and opposed this system from the beginning. What they have is not a socialist system, but a capitalist one where the government falls under the control of the capitalist elite.
Now that their so called capitalist system has been shown for what it is, they are trying to shaft the blame onto their enemies, and you are falling for it hook line and sinker.
Seleucus84 2 years ago 8
it is not capitalist you dumbass. it is socialist because it redistributes wealth. and socialists propagated this system in the name of free markets. ex freddie and fannie- a utopian socialist ponzi scheme meant to give everyone housing.
ferrozm 2 years ago
If it truly were a socialist system then yes we would've bailed out the banks, but it wouldn't have been a bailout, it would have been a buy out, they would have been fully nationalized. Not given back to the very same people who brought them down.
Infact it wouldn't have even happened in the first place because the government would have done it's job and regulated them, instead of deregulating under the guise of free market capitalism.
Seleucus84 2 years ago 2
I'm glad you say "the guise of free market capitalism" because you just admit that it is not free market capitalism at all. but bail outs from govt are socialist schemes as is unemployment benefits, welfare, social security and medicare
ferrozm 2 years ago
@ ferrozm
No I say under the guise of "free market capitalism" because that is the bullshit fantasy excuse they feed to the masses to justify their self serving policies.
While the masses and people such as your self go around repeating their free market dogma, believing in the magical forces of the free market, it just doesn't correspond with real world events, where capitalists actually control the flow of capital and thus the market itself.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
@ferrozm
Yes you could call the bailouts socialist but only up to the point where they are intended to save the economy from collapse and thus prevent mass unemployment. If they were truly socialist, like I said, the banks would have been nationalized. Since it is taxpayer money which effectively kept them afloat, we taxpayers should own them. But of course under this capitalist system we, the people, we the masses work for the capitalists. They get to fuck up and steal our money thru the gov.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
that still doesn't address the cause of the problem created by socialist redistribution schemes ex. fannie freddie guaranteeing mortgages, the FDIC insuring irresponsible banks. All of these are keynesian-socialist redistribution schemes
ferrozm 2 years ago
No they are capitalist influences on the gov. The FDIC and the deregulations on the Banking sector was a direct result lobbying by the banking sector.
F/F were run as private corporations and not government entities, which resulted in unchecked mismanagement by it's board, and no oversight by the government.
Why did the gov run privatise these institutions? Because of capitalist influence. The capitalists couldn't wait to get their hands on all of those loans.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
Regardless guaranteeing mortgages to the poor, the collapse would have occurred because the derivatives market is valued at $600 trillion, there is more money being gambled in the derivatives market, then there exists in the entire economy. Which is why the capitalists couldn't wait to get their hands on the mortgages from F/F.
It is essentially killer stakes gambling in which capitalists use consumer and taxpayer money instead of their own.
Seleucus84 2 years ago 5
For example Lehman Brothers had nearly 1 million derivatives contracts under it's name.
Seleucus84 2 years ago
"market is valued at $600 trillion, there is more money being gambled in the derivatives market, then there exists in the entire economy"
Exactly, the system is using real people and real labour to support an illusion for the few.
abilityoflove 2 years ago 2
Sound money..would eliminated so much trash.
jsmythib 2 years ago
@Seleucus84 - LMFAO!! Keep drinking the BRAWNDO!!! and supporting Carl's Jr! assclown!!
Mrcharliebobo 2 years ago
@Mrcharliebobo
Well said...oh wait...
Seleucus84 2 years ago