Save Your Biblical Condemnation for Yourself

[IsaacOfWolfbreed]

So.. You think homosexuality is not evil... Yet Jesus states it is... WTF

[prismstar23]

I love that you uploaded this video. I admire people like you who stand their ground and that and that nobody can take your relationship with God away from you, regardless of what the Bible says, God bless you always!

[bimboblacky]

I am guessing that, from what I've seen 4 a few months now, U R not posting any more videos (2 this channel, anyway?) OH, well. I found every last 1 of the ones that WERE posted quite enlightening...just thought I would say that @ this point. I wish U and your partner well, and I am SO glad State of California Proposition 8 2008 got SLAM-DUNKED in the Honorable Vaughn R. Walker's court, 2. I know it's currently up on Circuit Court Appeal, but I think it won't survive THERE, either. FWIW

[Tremari0]

thanks for all your sharing in all the videos you have made....i've watched several but chose to just comment on this since it's most recent. thank you. :)

[bimboblacky]

Vince, I am sorry but per my own interpretation of Matthew Chapter 18, (please note that I am one of your valid witnesses, okay?) you really do need to BLOCK the U Tube user "RepresentingTruth" at this point if you have not done so already. I believe in freedom of expression, speech, and all THAT "good stuff" *up to a point* in a forum like this. May God bless you and the other Vince, and may He also continue to "take the blinders off" others in the Body. (It IS happening, slowly but surely).

[tenorcervantes]

@bimboblacky It's rare that I block anyone on YouTube or my blog. I block people that relentlessly harass me and threaten to harm me physically. Other than that, I let people say what they want. If I'm to stand true by what I seek out, which is open dialogue, then I have to be willing to listen to stuff I don't agree with.

[bimboblacky]

In fact, I found most of the MCC pastors *I* heard pretty much "bury" their associates in other churches/denominations with their depth of thought AND spirituality on QUITE A FEW theological issues! Those who claim that they and their so-called "ilk" (e.g., reconciling churches) ONLY focus on gay marriage and/or abortion, could not possibly be more DEAD...WRONG. And, by the way, *I* was taught (as a confirmed Lutheran) that the Sabbath commandment is STILL VALID. Just not the Saturday aspect.

[bimboblacky]

Too bad the word "toevah" was translated ABOMINATION in the English language, from MANY different shades of meaning in the original? HEY,maybe I should run off and join the (ta-daaahhh) MORMON CHURCH. They seem to get it about the translation issues within the Holy Bible, anyway.(Book of Mormon, and other scriptures (to them anyway) whole other story, but oh well).Also, *I* certainly heard NUMEROUS (pro)-gay theologians describe 4 different koine Greek words for "LOVE" in some DEPTH, "boss."

[RepresentingTruth]

My videos clearly debunks your claims. There are so twist I promise

[tenorcervantes]

@RepresentingTruth And life experiences debunk your claims. So there we go, around and around.

[RepresentingTruth]

@tenorcervantes No you go round and round but you cannot face my questions.

[markhinr]

Well said! 

[bimboblacky]

Yeah, plus U should C how hard I got slammed when I pointed out in some OTHER channels that God (4 some *strange* reason) has been aggressively filling practicing monogamous homosexual couples with His Holy Spirit!!! And insisting on CONTINUING that! (I'll B frank; when I first encountered a church congregation full of "such people," I almost ran out of there convinced that possibly EVERYthing I B-lieved might B pretty wrong). That was an overreaction, and the Lord got THROUGH 2 even me. :)

[bimboblacky]

I wanted 2 post the final paragraph of Judge Vaughn R. Walker's ruling, though that IS a secular ruling. HOWEVER, I might still do it in a minute, and I know it applies 2 Vince and Vince B-cause they R, or @ least WERE, in California @ 1 time. It is a VERY powerful, thoughtful, point-by-point legal opinion, which considered EVERY SINGLE POINT presented by BOTH sides. He's clearly a very competent and reliable judge. (But, just watch 4 attacks on him as "activist" and, in his case, biased). :(

[SoFondaMayles]

Congratulations on your courage and wisdom to come through the so-called "ex-gay" non-therapy. Great evil continues to be perpetuated in the name of Biblical IL-literacy and touted ignorance, as if that will guarantee a sense of safe security by destroying those outside themselves who too closely trigger awareness of what they most fear, dread and hate about their own highly complex inner Selves. - Gordon Hill, M.Div., C.P.E.,ＡＩＡ

[grvcrazy]

Thank you so much for your videos. I am now finally fine with my sexuality. I just want to go and tell all my christian friends why I am finally ok with who I am.

You rock!!!

[bimboblacky]

ONE thing U may NOT have read, Vincent, is the tract TO SET OUR HOPE ON CHRIST, an official *doctrinal* position statement published by the Episcopal Church as an INVITED response *from* them *2* the Anglican Worldwide Communion. I very, very highly recommend it. God bless. By the way, I got a very unique chance 2 hear His Excellency, the Right Reverend V. Gene Robinson, preach quite recently. (VERY easy 2 C how the guy got elected bishop!!!)

[tenorcervantes]

@bimboblacky You make me smile every time I read your comments haha

[bimboblacky]

On another note, I had 2 block somebody ELSE (B watching 4 him) who LOVES 2 throw the case Baker V. Nelson in everyone's face when THEY mention *either* Loving V. The Commonweath of Virginia, AND/OR Lawrence V. The State of Texas. I don't C *how* this guy can honestly B-lieve that, with BOTH of those decisions in place, AND with the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals (Judge Walker, I B-lieve) agreeing 2 HEAR the Proposition 8 case in the FIRST place, that this is any kind of "open and shut" case!

[bimboblacky]

Vincent, I have now BLOCKED the U Tube user RepresentingTruth, especially since the thing he sent *me* via U Tube e-mail was one of the MUCH weaker cases against us that I have seen in a VERY long time. (Not completely lame, he seemed 2 realize that the Holiness Code, precisely B-cause of the Acts Chapter 10 vision, ETC., is *not* completely binding on ANY New Testament Christian). Still, I've seen SUCH better presentations, even from HIS side of this debate, it was actually depressing... :(

[diorgirl17]

Hey I love your videos

sorry some Christian people are so Ignorant to the fact of people being who they are.. just wanted to let u know im a Christian and i think you are an a beautiful person inside and out not matter what people may say or condemned u or whatever .. lol

take care :)

[bimboblacky]

U were online as recently as a week ago; okay, good. SOMEWHERE out here on U Tube is a whole booklist of resources (with STRANGER ON THE GATE in there, but far, far more than that) which I am going 2 try 2 find and put the U Tube user (if not the link) in HERE. Remember that GOOD Jewish people had a TOUGH time with Jesus when He came; good *Christian* people had a tough time with the Reformation, etc. PRAY, PRAY, PRAY for those people!!!

[tenorcervantes]

@bimboblacky Are you talking about the book by Mel White? I'm good friends with Mel. He is a great person. I definitely pray for everyone. I pray they become people that understand and people of compassion.

[RepresentingTruth]

Okay I forgot. I did see Avatar and the special effects were great but I still like the matrix.

[LANCET1000]

I thought i had subscribed to you. I have now.

[tenorcervantes]

@LANCET1000 Thank you =)

[RepresentingTruth]

Really. 1 cor 7:2

[tenorcervantes]

@RepresentingTruth Yet this is right after Paul says that it is better for a man not to marry at all. He supports marriage in this case just to avoid lust. This passage has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

[RepresentingTruth]

@tenorcervantes 1 Cor 7:2 shows how to avoid fornication which is sex outside marriage. All sex outside of marriage is sin. To avoid that the one choice is for a man to have a wife and a woman to have a husband. The option of the same sex is not offered and thus proves that God never ordains homosexuality. Also if you read later in the chapter it says he that giveth in marriage does well and he that does not does better. There is no support for sex outside of marriage, straight or gay.

[tenorcervantes]

@RepresentingTruth But I am married. My partner and I have a legal marriage.

[RepresentingTruth]

@tenorcervantes In the eyes of the state yes but you are not "one flesh" in the sight of God. It may be legal to have prostitution in Nevada but in God's eyes it is sin.

[tenorcervantes]

@RepresentingTruth We were married in a church. And I know that in God's eyes were are united through God's compassionate love. God celebrates our relationship.

We are mated before Eywa! (sorry I couldn't resist)

[RepresentingTruth]

@tenorcervantes What in the world is Eywa?

[tenorcervantes]

@RepresentingTruth It was a reference to a line in the movie Avatar.

[mark40511]

Psychology 101 teaches how people that hate themselves often throw out their hatreds on others like them, in a desperate attempt to cover up the truth about themselves. No wonder the republican party has had so many of its homophobes outed one way or the other. Foley, Craig, etc, etc. Same for the right wing Christian churches, e.g. Minister Barnes of Colorado, and wow-ee Minister Ted Haggard of the Colorado gay hating megachurch, outed by his gay PROSTITUTE boy friend. Talk about poetic justice

[x86freak]

One more question. You are Catholic and are aware other "brands" of Christianity. Do you think you're following the right one and if so how do know?

[tenorcervantes]

@x86freak I am not Catholic.

[x86freak]

@tenorcervantes Hmm, well your "coming out interview" said you were raised as a Catholic so I assumed...

So to be clear, with what religion do you identify yourself with?

[tenorcervantes]

@x86freak I identify with Christianity and Hinduism

[x86freak]

You ever considered a thought that God could be unjust from a human point of view? And with that said - maybe things stated in the Bible are what they are. Rationalizing them will not undo the message. Also I don't see how simple people ~2000 years ago would draw a pro-gay conclusion from the Book, if we barely can today.

[tenorcervantes]

@x86freak Interesting thought. What do you mean by 'unjust'?

[x86freak]

@tenorcervantes I mean, if God was judged by a human court there's a good chance He'd be sent to Hell. But since He's God - ultimate might makes ultimate right.

[tenorcervantes]

@x86freak I see. So in terms of theodicy, you're saying that there is no justification for why bad things happen, God is the cause for evil in the world? For those that believe in the idea of God being omnipotent, I think you're argument would (and should) stand. If God is aware of evil, God should stop it. If God can't stop it, then God must be the cause. Am I right on your logic?

[x86freak]

@tenorcervantes Isaiah 45:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things"

Also God does whatever He wishes and He's always right no matter how wrong it may seem to us.

You see, your experience with your sexuality and absolute failure of the church to "fix" you to me suggests that the Bible could be wrong.

[tenorcervantes]

@x86freak Very good point indeed. But the Bible never promises to fix sexual orientation though haha.

[x86freak]

@tenorcervantes You know that's a good point you just made. I can't remember any story in the Bible where a gay person was fixed thru exorcism or other means.

However some verses imply that it's a matter of choice - "you give in to lust", it says. You described your experience as a feeling toward another man - no lust. ...unless you are part of some global gay conspiracy...!!!!!

[JPinLA]

The bible is full of completely ridiculous stuff that gay-haters completely ignore. Next time they quote you an anti-gay verse, ask them why they ignore God's command in Deuteronomy 22:13-21 which says that a marriage is only valid if the wife is a virgin and if she is not she should be executed!

You rock Vince! Keep fighting the good fight!

[mark40511]

@JPinLA

Wow JP! I wasn't familiar with that verse. But I am NOW!!!!! What do they say when you throw that verse at them? I'm just curious.

Sorry for going on a comment rant tenorcervantes, but I read a few interesting posts that I wanted to reply to.

[dinomate01]

Hi ! I would like to thank you for your honesty in your opinion.

I am in the closet at the moment and

wish I had the courage to come out like you !

[facio559]

see that's the fact it's what you wanna believe and not what God has said in his word what you wanna believe will not save you i also have some issues that i need to clean up in my life because i'm far from perfect as well but i guess here's a response to your customs, found in the book of matthew ch.7:21-24 not every one who profess christ will enter the kingdom of heaven and he will say depart from me ye that worketh iniquity.

[tenorcervantes]

@facio559 I am very receptive to what God says in her word. I also make sure I take time to know what God means when she says something and not take it for just face value.

[facio559]

@tenorcervantes You believe God is a her or a female?

[tenorcervantes]

@facio559 Actually I believe that god is genderless. But if I have to choose a pronoun, I would prefer a female one.

[mark40511]

@tenorcervantes

Is it just me, or is it generally heterosexual MEN, not women, who go off on rampant tangents about gay people? I could be wrong, but it's just something I've noticed over the years.

[tenorcervantes]

@mark40511 Feel free to respond! Lord knows, I'm tired of being the one always talking about this haha. I appreciate the contributions you make to the discussion.

[xiaoxiaotyy]

Wow. That video was really well done. I am not sure I could have remained so calm. Good job!

[curnon69]

I am so disappointed. I was so sure that one of your out spoken criitcs would have flamed me for my previous comments but maybe they went to attack other sinners this week. Vince thanks for the forum. Please keep up your voice heard. I don't always agree with you but you express your views with thoughfulness and respect.

[curtis190]

Good just be your self, i just started watching your vids but i know what your going through. Stay strong dude it will get better always does *hugs*

[curnon69]

How many churches will be able to continue if they attack the divorced or the obese. I could list hundreds of other sins as well that are done regularly by more than 5% of the population but I think this point is clear. There is no justice or mercy by attacking group that one considers weak. There is NO faith unless you live your live as Jesus did.

[curnon69]

The issue should not be whether or not homosexuality is a sin because "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven...(Matthew 12:31-32) But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness.(Matthew 23:23).

[curnon69]

Vince maybe one of your critics can explain to me why homosexuality has become the battle cry for the fundamentalist Christians. Gay people are such a small percentage of the population 5-10% but divorced people are somewhere between 1/3 and ½ of the population or overweight Americans at 65% (Proverb 23:2 proclaims, Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.

[whitecubguy13]

I think the pro gay churches should remove the hateful verses from their version of the bible. The fact that, when the bible was being finalized, they decided to exclude a number of chapters from the bible, and the order isn't that which we see today. So, literalists need to get a complete bible before they do anything else.

[mark40511]

@whitecubguy13

Oh, another thing. Not sure if you are aware of this. The word homosexual was never in any version of the Bible before the 1950's. In the Corinthians verse that now says "homosexual offenders" , used the word effeminate, which means soft or weak. I read one comment where someone stated effeminate was the receiver in a gay relationship. (LOL!) Effeminate could pertain to anyone, gay or straight. Effeminate does not mean gay. Yet it's in some versions of the Bible now.

[whitecubguy13]

@mark40511

What you say is true, however they do mention, a man laying with a man, like he lay with a women. I think Christianity and a couple of other religions take the extreme views they do, because at the time of their formation, the region was in cultural and political turmoil. You had a lot of countries and cultures competing with one another for which would be on top, so its natural that some like the Church of the bible & other faiths declared their superiority & divinity over others.

[whitecubguy13]

@mark40511

to further distinguish themselves from other religions/cultures, some faiths like Christianity would not only target other faiths/cultures as being evil, they would target subgroups within the community such as midwives, scientists who's theories don't follow church doctrine, political leaders who's views may empower the public too much, taking power away from the church, other free thinkers such as artists, writers, directors, & of course anyone who understands their own sexuality.

[whitecubguy13]

Of course, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and many of the religious leaders who have cried the loudest against gay rights over the last couple of decades used much of the same language during the equal rights movement. They claimed interracial marriage threatened the sanctity of marriage, that it was an abomination, that it was against God's will. Much like the bible was used to justify slavery and defend it during the fight to abolish it.

[whitecubguy13]

Hi dude, love your video even though I'm not a person of faith. For me, I think of the verses in the bible dealing with homosexuality as reflecting the social values of 2,000 years ago. I mean, inspired by god or not, those who wrote the bible were free to incorporate the social norms of the day. Now that we know that, there are physical differences in the structure of the brains between gay folks and strait folks, there should be no reason to hate gays.

[mark40511]

@whitecubguy13

Well said! I mean look at the time frame! It was common for heterosexual men to have boy prostitutes and they would even rape boys in the Greco-Roman world. Another thing that amazes me is people will point out others flaws in religion, as if they themselves are not flawed human beings. Perfect in every way.

[wiannoboy]

I understand, we all get the bullshit twisting of bible verses thrown at us...Whether we are Christian or not is irrelavant to them, we are still forced to believe it and live it according to what THEY believe.

However quitting , I think, will not help the greater cause. I often want to stop myself, but I see that as completely selfish. How will I contribute to others and future gays if I dont take a stand with every bigot who takes one with me?

Just my opinion, I respect yours.

[tenorcervantes]

I understand what you're saying. For me, I have to pick my battles based on what is worthwhile. I highly value dialogue, and I will discuss these passages with someone that genuinely wants to hear a perspective that is different from their own. But I won't let myself be abused in conversation. You know?

[wiannoboy]

@tenorcervantes ...ok. You have to stay in your comfort zone. Maybe someday Ill feel like you do, but for now I still have the drive and energy to tackle any asshole bigot who creeps my way! As a matter of fact I sometimes welcome it and like to see him squirm when I lash out more bible verses than he does and in a much more literate way. Makes him feel like a fool since he's supposedly the bible thumper expert

[tenorcervantes]

It's not that it's outside of my comfort zone. I've been doing this for nearly four years now (as my job). It's more exhausting than anything.

[garysdeskcom]

I understand your frustration. I get a lot of that too, and many of the people are just as nasty as they are ignorant of the Bible. Bishop Spong is now refusing to discuss the topic with people who are oppose gay people. I've had to tell some of the people their high level of interest in the topic could be saying things about their sexuality.

[borisgoodenough1988]

what else can christian bible thumpers do. 1. leviticus was written for jewish folks,not gentiles. and to simply take 1 commandment and leavethe other 612 in the dirt, seems like hypocrisy. 2. in order to understand S&G, you need to read genesis 14,vs.1-16 to appreciate the full context. 3. pauls letter to the romans reads like a PERSONAL commentary of a jewish zealot being a christian zealot, and being critical of romes philosophers,and its pagan religious customs

[tenorcervantes]

that has been my point exactly

[Azariahisastar]

Please message me and break this down. Cause its thick And I dont understand.

I am a fan of ....TREVOR