A BIG debate on Israel/Palestine Nakba-3/4

[jarogehotmail]

God that Finklestien is such an annoying douche..... Worst partnis, i am sure there is some idiot somewhere who takes him seriously....

[steute2011]

You got to love ti...Aparthied = Self defense, according to Benny the shmuck!

[Ermal8711]

I like Finkelstein, but it would be nice if he debated the argument and not the person and not used such lame begging the question fallacies.

[HONNESTVIEW]

Benny Morris is a negationist, a mascotte for the anti jews

it is time the Palestinians and their supporters stopped living the lie of the naqba. It is time (to recall) the true narrative of history and the suffering on both sides, but particularly that of the Jews for hundreds of years under Muslim rule.

The stories of the pogroms, killings and ethnic cleansing of Jews from Arab lands up to and immediately after the creation of the state of Israel must be told.

[Ermal8711]

@HONNESTVIEW Arabs provided one of the few places of refuge for Jews during history. In fact, one of the first pogroms that occurred in 1922, bcz of Zionism.

[HONNESTVIEW]

@Ermal8711

ye ! they had so much love for the jews ( just like the christians today being massacred ) that expelled 1 million of them from arab countries

The Hebron massacre refers to the killing of sixty-seven Jews on 23 and 24 August 1929 in Hebron, then part of the British Mandate of Palestine, by Arabs

[uncleadolf]

@HONNESTVIEW You know the vast majority of the one million were not expelled. It's really obvious: they emigrated. Picture this: you are a Jew living in Iraq in 1949. A self-styled Jewish State pops up next door, and it has many empty houses for obvious reasons. Quite obviously you'd go live in it. If I were a Jew, I'd probably live in Israel, then and now. The so-called 'Jewish Nakba' is a recent largely false narrative aimed at countering the very real Palestinian 'Nakba'.

[qwertypoiu4321]

2:25-

3:08-

LOL! Finkelstein is great!

[ofri75]

I think it's clear that Benny Morris won the debate. In my eyes at least.

Norman Finkelstein is a radical fnaatic freak, that was also kicked from the university he teached, and didn't find any other institution to teach since. The other person (Saree Makdisi) - I respect more, but he also lacks the experience and knowledge of a person who lived in Israel.

[bapyou]

@ofri75 "Norman Finkelstein is a radical fnaatic freak, that was also kicked from the university he teached, and didn't find any other institution to teach since."

Norman Finkelstein was not "kicked from the university" where he taught. That is a lie, pure & simple.

Finkelstein came up for tenure review at DePaul U. & Alan Dershowitz -- angry at Finkelstein for exposing Dershowitz' fraudulent scholarship -- campaigned to have Finkelstein's tenure denied. That is what happened.

[ofri75]

@bapyou - without getting into the details, Finkelstein was expelled as an instructor from the university he taught due to his radical views and incitement. He was also expelled and denied from entering Israel - a clear indication how extreme and radical he is. He always uses anti-Israeli rhetoric, dedicates his life to incite, bash, and spread poison on Israel (and the USA as well), and tries to spread his propaganda and anti-Israeli brainwashing agenda to others in his lectures.

[bapyou]

@ofri75 "Finkelstein was expelled as an instructor from the university"

That, son, is a lie. Finkelstein came up for tenure & was denied tenure due to a high pressure campaign mounted by chief Zionist-in-charge Alan Dershowitz. Now that is not the same thing as being "expelled" for "radical views." Everyone at DePaul - students & faculty alike - were very positive about Finkelstein's teaching abilities. You are a liar.

Norman tells the truth about Israel & the U.S. You do not know it.

[ofri75]

Benny Moris won the debate!- Viva Israel !

[goer1234]

It's amazing that Morris can justify the appartheid regime in the occupied territories with "security needs". Most of the harsh restrictions on the Palestinians are designed to protect the existance of the illegal jew-only settelments. So what he's saying is that in order to protect an unjust and brutal regime of repression and land theft, harsh restrictions are required. Instead of just cancelling the unjustice

[xpressivist]

Morris just confirmed what probably most Jews in Israel believe: they are not willing to share the land equally with the Arabs or Palestinians. Its the Jews or the Arabs. I think this is not the way to peace.

[rudyell]

benny morris needs to grow a backbone. worried the same thing that happened to Ilan pappe would happen to you benny?

[IBeatUpThugs]

"I don't know why Mr Finkelstein calls what I write fantasy, most of his work on the middle east on the Israeli-Arab conflict is based on my work, look at his footnotes"

Get em Benny!

[PeaceandUnity1972]

@IBeatUpThugs

The only thing benny is getting is more hate from the people who listen to him because he is like you are a big fat liar

and you, let me tell you this. you re name is you beat up thugs??? if i catch youre liar tong on the streets, ill show you how to whooop zionist RACIST FACIST LIAR ASSS

no one believes you people anymore, and now the American People are waking up to the fact that you liars are using theire tax money to attack EVERYBODY including the united states!

[IBeatUpThugs]

@PeaceandUnity1972 LOL. "Peace and unity" is going to whoop me on the streets! Typical peaceful anti-Zionist who only wants peace!

When you try to whoop me and I stomp your head in then will you cry how you just wanted peace and I oppressed you for no reason? Like a typical cowardly lying violent Arab who gets his ass kicked by self-defensive Jews.

America loves Israel! Need to cut the 500 million of US taxes going to Palestinians who dance in the street after 911. No US taxes to terrorists!

[PeaceandUnity1972]

@IBeatUpThugs

First of all, i am a peacefull man but when it comes to LIARS and the defenders of LIARS AND MURDERES the peace will stand aside for the sake of HUMANITY.

if you really think and believe you can stomp my head and bla bla bla HERE IS A CHALLENGE... i will pay for youre airplane ticket and youre hotel aswell . Get youre ass over here and step in the ring with me. Then well know what the outcome will be.

Second...

[IBeatUpThugs]

@PeaceandUnity1972 Haha you are so full of shit. You dont' have to be about peace, but don't put it in your name if you aren't. So typical of anti-Zionists with their phony posing and posteuring about peace but they always really want to fight! Then they lose that fight and cry about how Israel is anti-peace. You are great display of who is REALLY for peace. Everyone who fights thinks they are justified, you are no different! Not about peace or unity. you are about violence! Hypocrite exposed!

[PeaceandUnity1972]

@IBeatUpThugs

let me start by telling you this.... i am no arab, i never liked the arab states BUT

the only reason the jews kicked arab ass was very clear, FUNDINGS from the UK and fundings from the USA and militairy support were the reasons you won.

and dont trie that self defending lie on me cause it wont work.

America LOVED israhell, the american taxpayer has ENOUGH of youre lies and deception.

JEWS ARE BACKSTABBING AMERICA, like they did in Germany before Hitler came

[IBeatUpThugs]

@PeaceandUnity1972 LOL first exposed as violent pro-war. Now you expose your own self as a Hitler supporter! HAHA! Must eat you up inside how strong and powerful Jews are nowadays! No more Hitler, he is gay and dead. No more Nazis they are weak and pitiful and only have spray cans and crappy websites. Talk to a "peaceful anti-Zionist" for a few minutes and he will show true colors!

You show why we call anti-Zionists anti-semites. You pretend to be anti-Israel and you are really pro-Hitler.

[sssssjjjj1]

the theory of relativity was written in papers 2 years before einstein wrote it up. When you are jewish the rothschilds world press makes heros.The banks owned by them only make big business loans to fellow jews.LIke to buy media companies, the big purchases, they also own the nobel prize board, they they basically pick the winners and losers of the world.we were raised hearing nothing but the jew side of the germany thing, the jew bankers enslave the german people like they're doing here now!

[PeaceandUnity1972]

@sssssjjjj1

Man, youre a true hero!!!

keep spreading the truth!

[SirianKings]

Jew-worshiping Christians are the reason why America is the way it is today.

[tommurphy67]

Its really sad to see what Benny Morris has become. He used to be so beautiful.

[FamilyGuyRocks89]

Benny Morris owns this debate. Go Dr. Morris!!

[Runrome]

Is that the same Benny who used to be on the British Soap Opera Cross Road's

I must say he seems are articulate chape these days

Ref: Benny from Cross Road's

[khateeb85]

Its really sad this guy is considered a progressive Israeli intellectual. He is just coming up with different apologies and justifications for what Israel did. Israel intellectual class is non-existent. Israel lives in its own universe. The history being taught in Israeli school is a history that exists nowhere else (if you compare to an independent source ... you will just be amazed).

[shayshalom]

norman finkelshtein is a self hating jew n they r the worst nazis

[genYprogressive]

@shayshalom That is the stupidest statement ever. You call him a "self hating jew" based on his views, when his views are about Israel NOT the Hebrew Faith.

Did the fact that Albert Einstein was Jewish make a diffrence in the discovery of General Relitivity? NO.

[coutin11]

@ramr23 Perhaps everyone dislikes Israel because the world is dependent on Arab/Muslim Oil. No, wait perhaps 50 million Muslims in Europe influence its decision making. Yes lets all be cool and jump on the band wagon and accuse Israel of lies ,racist ideology when Arabs have more rights in Israel than in Arab countries, and when Arafat embezzled millions of $ and lied about peace. And jews as superior to the gentiles?? Every heard of dhimmi? 2000 years of discrimination and prejudice?

[NERV180]

Morris' arguments are pretty lame. Somehow, I suspected that he was a good historian, but I am somewhat baffled by how poor his arguments are.

[KripkeSaul]

Why do they always have to make those awful comparisons? Like Hitler? Yeah, everybody is like Hitler. Even if there are any parallels to Hitler any real parallel can only be drawn if those parallels refer to something that marks Hitler out. And Finkelstein's comparison is not based on that. That's like saying that since Hitler used to breath air and so do Israelis, therefore Israelis and Hitler are essentially the same...

[HETAGU]

@KripkeSaul Apartheid is an accurate assessment. Look no further than to those who have suffered apartheid. Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu have both made statements linking Israel to apartheid.

[KripkeSaul]

What does that prove? It proves only that old men lose their ability to judge correctly. And by the way, Finkelstein compares Israel to Nazi Germany, which even if Israel were an Apartheid state, is over the top and shows how retarded he is. I wish you had the ability to read not only to write...

[fagbert]

Morris isn't sticking to the historical facts, he's spinning them to fit with his ideological stance.

[v1vapalestine]

Israel = Greed, War, Murder, Rape, Terrorists, Inhumanity, Death, Racism, Zionism.

BTW , Hammas did not threaten to wipe Israel of the map, Hammas wants to wipe Zionisn of the face of the planet NOT Israel. Its a political expression. Every scholar in the Arab world has already confirmed this FACT. You people just believe what you want to believe. you make us all sick, we vomit on all you racist Inhumane warmongers

[edanhollombe]

prieras - Ilan Pappe ADMITTED that he wrote his book with a pre-existing bias against Israel. Morris exposes his lies and misrepresentations time and time again.

[relarerfhjk]

edanholombe Morris misrepresents his own evidence, so it is hard to him to expose anyone else's lies! As Finkelstein said, Morris's research found proved that Zionists always intended to expel the native Arabs,but he turned the implications of this on its head,and said it was the Arabs already living there who were the expulsionists! In this interview Morris's only reply to that, was that the Jews "felt it was their home" Oh, so the Arabs already living there didnt feel it was their home too??

[28g34ajbsd]

According to Morris's logic, defense is the best form of attack :P We didn't mean to expand our settlements and occupy territories we were craving for in our sweetest nationalist dreams - we were pushed into it... which, needless to say, totally absolves us. It's funny how this logic is totally in line with Golda Meir's: "We may forgive you for killing our children, but we will never forgive you for making us kill your children." If you hadn't wore that sexy dress, I never would have raped you.

[IdoG262]

yea right, terrorisem is a great looking dress o the right bdy, and it makes Hamas look great in the eyes of the world...

[prierias]

Morris has sold his soul to the powers that be in Israel. For an accurate account of 1948 read Ilan Pappe.

[urthogie]

Morris is right. Israel's Arab neighbors (and Iran) are a threat to its existence. A brief look through history informs that technological superiority does not always win. Israel has every right to be concerned about it's short term and long term security.

[HRINGNUN]

with all due respect to mr Morris, the idea that hamas, hezbollah or Iran is a threat to Israel's existence is simply not true. He sounds more like a propagandist here.

[larrylife4life]

I agree 100%. I'm not impressed with Morris' perception of history.

[degas5000]

Anyone know of a good historical work on the 1948 war?

[larrylife4life]

Sure, there's plenty of good work on it. To be safe, stick with the newer historians because much of the mystery surrounding the war has been sorted out due to the discovery of new documents, manuscripts, etc.

[degas5000]

Do you know of any specific works off the top? Thanks.

A good one on the situation in general is Chomsky's Fateful Triangle.. you probably know that though

[larrylife4life]

Ironically, Morris' book, "1948," is quite comprehensive. But on the issue of chronology, read it with Finkelstein's "Image and Reality." Also, check out "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine," by Ilan Pappe, which is a good text on the Zionist transfer of Arabs, terrorism, and militant movements.

[degas5000]

Thanks - I'll check that out. I am a little hesitant to read Morris alone after listening to him speak.

[IdoG262]

why? becouse he's not pro-palastain? heavens forbbide!! he sopporets Israel? let's boicot him couse he has a different view!!!

[OBZ]

Hamas Charter: Israel exists and will continue to exist until Islam obliterates it, as it has obliterated others before it.

[trycoun]

i'm tired of this dumb mantra israel would be threatened by iran and it's allegded nuclear weapons ambitions, and be driven to the sea, and all this nonsense, to justify their imperialism and barbaric slaughter.

enough.

[xibbox]

well said

[hexag1]

excellent post. thanks.

[imu786x]

what holocaust?

there was no such thing haha!!!

it was just a pretext.........

[degas5000]

buuuuuuulllshit

[Arjuna1901]

Dsperlin, Finkelstein didn't say the HOLOCAUST was an industry. He said the exploitation of the Holocaust was an industry.

You are a moron and you probably didn't even read his book.

[cheebacheeba]

@Arjuna1901 i have an idea for his next book, the darfur industry, or how about the tibet industry, all a way of gaining sympathy to do what they wish.....

[elsblaugranas]

@Arjuna1901 Plus his own parents survived the Holocaust and every member of both sides of his family was killed by the Nazis....to suggest he is a Holocaust denier is perverse

[Arjuna1901]

Norman is one of the few honest scholars on the ME conflict. Chomsky is another. God bless them both.

[blksept]

Finkelstein is a good man, a real man can take a step back and look at whats right or wrong, even if that means speaking out against his ''OWN'' people.

[dsperlin]

He should be Iran's spokesman

[dsperlin]

Norman Finkelstein is a traitor

[guitarists]

Why is finkelstein a traitor ? Is it because he can look at a subject like this without using pure emotion to judge right from wrong ? Be serious !

[dsperlin]

Please, advocating the holocaust was an industry and after paying with the blood of millions of our people that we should still basically have no homeland to escape to, that's why I think the man is a traitor.

[guitarists]

The thing i think you don't seem to get is that he makes a difference between zionist that try to use the holocaust as an excuse for justifying colonial claim to a land and jews that have actually suffered and that aren't truly being represented. An also why should palestinians suffer for something that happened in Europe? How do you justify that ?

[dsperlin]

It's not a matter of simply having a place to go. If we didn't care about where we went, we wouldn't be in that part of the Middle East. Originally the partition plan was pretty equal, and Palestinians could be Israeli citizens as long as they did not cause trouble. But, the Arab countries didn't want that and made trouble, as well as expelling around 800,000 Jews from Arab lands. I don't advocate hurting Palis, because of the Holocaust. But i believe in my spiritual homeland.

[juliaisafilmbuff]

Wow, Morris is a propagandist if I've ever seen one.